well docs going down?

[copobo]

Medical marijuana: 3,200 patient applications in limbo, may be tossed due to technicalities - Denver News - The Latest Word (http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/11/medical_marijuana_board_of_health_fees.php)

[painretreat]

:(Read the article. Guess it seems a PA 'photocopied' a Dox signature and then signed. Mostly from one clinic!

Guess they are all out the cost of Dr. visit and fee to State of $90. And have to wait for "return" of applications! Really sucks!!:mad:

Hope you all get :stoned: anyway! pr

[cornbread]

I just got a well docs renewal 11/11/11. The signatures of doc and notary are all signed in blue ink.

[copobo]

it's not welldocs fault. the BOH is again changing the rules after the fact and fucking patients.

[mustangwomyn]

I'm still glad I go to a 1 doctor office & he encourages you to check his license status:thumbsup:

[HighPopalorum]

People need to stop patronizing these registry mills. I don't see how the doctors who operate them do so ethically.

[DenverRelief]

People need to stop patronizing these registry mills. I don't see how the doctors who operate them do so ethically.

What ethical issue is at stake?

Is there such thing as a noble lie in your mind?

[HighPopalorum]

No, but these businesses aren't about nobility. They're about seeing as many patients in as little time in the most cursory manner possible in order to maximize profit. Nobility doesn't enter into it. There's something wrong with these five-minute examinations; after all, they purportedly address serious medical conditions like cancer and AIDS. If I were a doctor, I couldn't square the wink-wink-nod-nod exams with my professional responsibility to do my best for every patient. I don't care if the patients or doctors lie to the state, but it's a scummy way to practice medicine, much like an attorney who does nothing but frivolous liability or whiplash cases.

[DenverRelief]

With the atrociously expensive state of health care, doctors should provide more than a signature when patients come seeking a medical marijuana recommendation, and should at the very least have an honest conversation about the effects of cannabis and the potential draw backs and results of its use, as any doctor prescribing any pharmaceutical medicine should.

This type of winking, as you put it, is common with opioid pain killers. Doctors don't just advertise that they accomodate those seeking pain killers, but word gets out, and it happens. The real winner there is the pharmaceutical company.

The 96% of Colorado Medical Marijuana Patients who have had MMJ recommended for 'chronic pain' are not fraudulent as many sources would have you believe.

Pain is common, be it due to surgery or trauma, and from my personal experiences as a budtender I can tell you that while many will say that pain isn't sufficient reason to use medical marijuana, I see it work wonders where pharmaceuticals didn't work and were accompanied by nausea and potentially more lethal side-effects.

How severe does pain have to be to justify using a narcotic but not medical marijuana?

[copobo]

they should just do away with the sham of the Dr Rec. As long as people are willing to pay, someone will be willing to sign. It's not easy or inexpensive to spend a half hour or 45 with a doc to talk about herb. I want a doc that believes I meight benefit from the herb and will sign me off. xrays and diagnosis don't lie and it doesn't take 45 minnutes with me, a smoker of 30 years, to do an mj rec.

That is what the amendment called for, right? Not a dr-patient relationship and a special dr appt done in a special way, not even required w/ EOL opiate pain management.

[painretreat]

:jointsmile:
No, but these businesses aren't about nobility. They're about seeing as many patients in as little time in the most cursory manner possible in order to maximize profit. Nobility doesn't enter into it. There's something wrong with these five-minute examinations; after all, they purportedly address serious medical conditions like cancer and AIDS. If I were a doctor, I couldn't square the wink-wink-nod-nod exams with my professional responsibility to do my best for every patient. I don't care if the patients or doctors lie to the state, but it's a scummy way to practice medicine, much like an attorney who does nothing but frivolous liability or whiplash cases.

I personally, have not seen a Dr. sign a mmj 'req.' in the same fashion as a lawyer takes a civil case and sits on it milking $ from their clients and doing nothing until the law mandates a settlement! There is no comparison! I would agree with you on point-that some lawyers are bad, most likely there are a few good ones!

Here in CA the major HMO's are begining to write 'reqs' for mmj! A sign that they simply want the 'members' to pay for their own medication.
:rasta: pr
The answer is LEGALIZATION! No question to it!

And. . . in the meantime, back to the thread. Forgery. . .Shameful!

[adkben]

Does anyone know if any lawyers are going to take this up as some kind of class-action? I'm wondering because unless Well Docs comes out saying they are going to refund the $ to the patients then this is a big problem. 6 months to re-apply after already having your $90 check cashed and paying $65 to well-docs. I'd be more than willing to spearhead any campaign that puts the nails in their coffin. This is bullshit

[dmngzckynd]

Im in the same situation and Im getting so fustrated because I did everything I had to,..now because someone wants to f@#k me around I cant get into the places I need to get into,..I can get into these other janky ass places with the crappiest herb Ive seen,..how do these docs justify f@#kn up the paperwork? How does the state justify there paperwork mess?? but most of all,..How are these people allowed to sell this bunk ass shit????

[DenverRelief]

Im in the same situation and Im getting so fustrated because I did everything I had to,..now because someone wants to f@#k me around I cant get into the places I need to get into,..I can get into these other janky ass places with the crappiest herb Ive seen,..how do these docs justify f@#kn up the paperwork? How does the state justify there paperwork mess?? but most of all,..How are these people allowed to sell this bunk ass shit????

You might try putting a call into Vicente Consulting (Brian Vicente of Sensible Colorado) or Robert Corey to see if they have any suggestions for recourse.

The easiest solution would be pressuring the state into allowing these patients to apply again, or at least offer them some course of action other than going without vital medicine.

This whole situation is frustrating for all involved. We have loyal patients who we can't serve because of this mess. It hurts to see people so frustrated and be unable to help.

Imagine quality control for cannabis. "Yes hello, I am the state marijuana inspector. This here is USDC (the US department of cannabis) grade A herb, but The $15 1/8th you bought at that 'janky ass' place isn't even marijuana."

[copobo]

I suggest calling Colorado Rep Pat Steadman and see if he can do anything
http://patsteasman.com

he returns emails and answers his phone and he cares.

[DenverRelief]

This just in:

Medical marijuana: CDPHE's Dr. Chris Urbina on physician assistants, patient denials - Denver News - The Latest Word (http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/12/medical_marijuana_chris_urbina_application_denials .php)

Dr. Urbina over at the CDPHE seems to think it as appropriate to punish patients who need medicine for what a physician has done.

I keep trying to find the logic, but obviously I don't have the requisite short circuit these bureaucrats have.

[dmngzckynd]

I talked to someone at the state and now it turns out I have to wait to the end of January!!! damm,..Im so angry!! I have no idea what to do,..I need my meds bcause I dont have pills to fallback on when this happens,...I wish I could sue them for this,...this is so bad for me,..I either dont have money for meds,...or I have money for meds and they wont give me my card,..I hate those janky ass dispensaries,..and I paid 25!!! I WANT MY MEDS!!!!!! that I qualify for legally,..with a legitimate condition,...why?? why?why?,...sorry guys,..didnt mean to cry on your shoulders,...

[dmngzckynd]

OMG! I just rad that artice man,...I had only seen this doctor I saw once,..the time I got my renewal,..he did a physical and all but that was the only time I had ever seen him,...according to that article, I will be denied because of this one time visit!!! holy batshit,...what am I going to do,...I seriously need some meds,..any suggestions,..I will meet someone in denver,..top shelf and high in CBD's if possible,...

[cornbread]

Holy crap!

I just called the Dr's phone number on the renewal papers and some dood answered saying he knew what I was calling about and that the Boulder WellDocs operation had been shut down and he'd taken over. He then offered the Dr's personal phone number then realized he didn't have it but if I called back tonight, he'd have it. I looked on the internet and there's no phone number for this Dr. He also said I'd just have to wait and see what the Health dept did with these applications. I asked if the Dr I saw was a real one and he said yes but seeing what the Health dept is doing isn't exactly comforting.

This is totally screwed up. It says on the papers "How many time have you seen this patient in the past 12 months?" The Dr wrote "0".

My guess is that the Health dept will punish me for 6 months if I send it in...I dunno. I'm currently trying to get my money back to see another Dr but wouldn't that Dr just mark "0", too?

Ugh...I should have known...It was all too simple.

[DenverRelief]

Here is a good article that explains the difference between being 'rejected' and 'denied' that also quotes Robert Corry who is representing one of the doctors affected.

Seems like a reasonable argument to me. Reason doesn't seem to be in abundance here though.

Med. marijuana lawyer: Health dept. can't deny cards over physician assistants - Denver News - The Latest Word (http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/12/med_marijuana_lawyer_health_de.php)

[cornbread]

I've since called around dispensaries and other doc referral places. All said I was lucky not to have sent in my WellDocs paperwork to the health dept because it will probably be highly scrutinized and rejected.

One problem isn't so much the ongoing relationship (it's a new industry) but rather these places that rent office space out to docs and work a few hours here and there. It's supposed to be a regular hours operation.

Everyone recommended I just go to another doc for renewal, skip the WellDocs mess, and avoid a high probability of being rejected and punished for 6 months.

I was a happy camper but now I'm out $55 and pissed.

[cornbread]

I hate to keep posting but I just called the health dept to see if they would accept my WellDocs renewal forms. All they told me was that the investigation of WellDocs ended yesterday and that they would not be releasing any names or information. They actually told me they didn't have anything to do with the results anyway. Big help they are...

However, I found another place in Boulder who was sympathetic with my dilemma and was willing to match what I spent. He looked up my WellDoc physician and found she actually was a doctor. But he also mentioned he wasn't aware of ANY WellDocs forms having been successfully processed.

It's a crapshoot I'm not willing to take a chance on. I'll have to start over...

[dmngzckynd]

as far as I know its not welldocs,..its the state,..did you see Dr. sjdak,..that's who I saw,.. and if you already sent in paperwork, they wont let you start over,..its bullshit,....bad deal,

[cornbread]

I saw Dr Livingwell and I didn't send in anything...fortunately

[dmngzckynd]

I saw Dr. Sujdak,..and I personally saw him sign my application,..his signature is on my paperwork,...so it's the state man,..they're horrible

[dmngzckynd]

Here is a good article that explains the difference between being 'rejected' and 'denied' that also quotes Robert Corry who is representing one of the doctors affected.

Seems like a reasonable argument to me. Reason doesn't seem to be in abundance here though.

Med. marijuana lawyer: Health dept. can't deny cards over physician assistants - Denver News - The Latest Word (http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/12/med_marijuana_lawyer_health_de.php)

I just read this article,..thank you ever so much, but I would like to bring something to your attention,..if you read the whole article, Corry says that our paperwork is good to go,..with this being said, and beings you posted this,,....can I get into DenverRelief now??!!!! been trying for a year and a half now!!:D

[DenverRelief]

I just read this article,..thank you ever so much, but I would like to bring something to your attention,..if you read the whole article, Corry says that our paperwork is good to go,..with this being said, and beings you posted this,,....can I get into DenverRelief now??!!!! been trying for a year and a half now!!:D

I regret to give you bad news again, but the legislation that went into effect in July regulates medical marijuana centers also created the Medical Marijuana Enforcement Division that oversees any MMJ business in the state. They have the strict rule that the application can be no older than 35 days.

The original MMJ amendment is what Corey is referring to is what governs the CDPHE which issues cards, but we have to listen to the MMED or else risk our license. What Corey is saying is technically accurate (*not legal advice* it could be an affirmative defense if you were growing or purchased from a private caregiver) but has since been superseded for dispensaries.

Appealing is really your best bet.

[copobo]

if you saw Sujdak or PA+Sujdak you can count on a denial.

[dmngzckynd]

if you saw Sujdak or PA+Sujdak you can count on a denial.

thanks,....ill kill myself tomorrow,...thanks,..jk I kynda figured, I cant ever do shit write,....weird how I follwed all the steps and have legitimate conditions for this shit to happen,...sucks oh well i guess

[dmngzckynd]

I regret to give you bad news again, but the legislation that went into effect in July regulates medical marijuana centers also created the Medical Marijuana Enforcement Division that oversees any MMJ business in the state. They have the strict rule that the application can be no older than 35 days.

The original MMJ amendment is what Corey is referring to is what governs the CDPHE which issues cards, but we have to listen to the MMED or else risk our license. What Corey is saying is technically accurate (*not legal advice* it could be an affirmative defense if you were growing or purchased from a private caregiver) but has since been superseded for dispensaries.

Appealing is really your best bet.

I know,..I'm just talking sh1t,...I wouldn't ever wanna jeopardize a dispensary like yours,..all the janky ones though yeah

[warrenedson]

I loved that CDPHE was doing it but where in A20 does it authorize PA's to make recommendations for mmj?

[DenverRelief]

I loved that CDPHE was doing it but where in A20 does it authorize PA's to make recommendations for mmj?

Many of the recs in question have 2 signatures, one of the PA and one from the physician. The CDPHE says this makes it unclear who had the relationship with the patient, but two medical professionals must be better than one, at least that's logical to me.

Ammendment 20 is now Article XVIII - Section 14, and it doesn't explicitly allow for PA's, but there was a time when CDPHE accepted them, then flipped policy without notice.


The language in question

(I) The patient was previously diagnosed by a physician as having a debilitating medical condition;

(II) The patient was advised by his or her physician, in the context of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, that the patient might benefit from the medical use of marijuana in connection with a debilitating medical condition; and

I can go to the ER and NEVER see an MD. I've had stiches, pain meds prescribed, and diagnosis made w/o an MD or DO, but for some reason an office that uses both PA's and a physician to conduct exams isn't bona-fide.

I can't find the logic in it. Reefer madness strikes again.

[cornbread]

I've heard the health dept isn't exactly thrilled with the new MMJ division they've been forced to make. When I called them, I sensed they really didn't like answering questions related to MMJ all day long. When I asked them for a recommendation on what to do, they said "We don't recommend anything."

How do I look up my doctor?

[DenverRelief]

I've heard the health dept isn't exactly thrilled with the new MMJ division they've been forced to make. When I called them, I sensed they really didn't like answering questions related to MMJ all day long. When I asked them for a recommendation on what to do, they said "We don't recommend anything."

How do I look up my doctor?

If you are looking to see if your doctor is in good standing, you can search from this link:
https://www.doradls.state.co.us/alison.php

If you need a doctor to write a recommendation, go to our home page and click on 'get your license' then 'doctors recommendations' where we have referral information.

[dmngzckynd]

I just checked my doctor,..he's good,..so I saw a good doctor, paid my fees, I have a legitimate condition(3 surgeries on shoulder, chronic pain, and I'm bipolar, just figured that out) I sent in my paperwork right, my question is, why am I being treated this way?? seriously, cant I sue someone for this,

[ciagia]

I've been gathering info from several patients that saw Dr. Lenny Sujdak. Some were seen by a woman and others were seen by a man. Some were seen at well docs and some at red card district. All asked specifically if he or she was a dr. and told yes.

Initially, I was angry with the state, but since Dr. Lenny Sujdak can be both man and woman, I have to wonder. Sounds like fraud to me. Maybe not entirely the state's fault.

The state says they have to approve or deny apps within 35 days, so that's one point of contention. Secondly, if we are all having our apps delayed due to this Dr. or PA's fraudulent misrepresentation, we may have a class action against the Dr. and or PA, as well as the company using this guy. I'm no lawyer, but I would be interested in getting together with others to see one. I'm taking emails at ciagiat at hotmail.

[dmngzckynd]

the state has 35 days but we cant go into dispensaries anyways,...what good is that? and check your email,...im interested to

[copobo]

I saw a PA at welldocs in Boulder and they were straight up about it being a PA.

[cornbread]

The one at 30th and baseline?

[copobo]

yes.

[KushPhotos]

if you saw Sujdak or PA+Sujdak you can count on a denial.

I saw this individual... or at the very least it is his name and signature on my paperwork and I received my card in the mail on Christmas Eve. I found this conversation on google when searching for information on why there was such a delay (3 months for me) in getting my renewal. You guys had me worried for nothing, hopefully all goes well for the rest of you who have been waiting on their cards.

[DenverRelief]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing KushPhotos

Maybe they are getting to clearing some of the apps now?

[cornbread]

KushPhotos - It sounds like you just endured 3 months of intense scrutiny.

[adkben]

Talked to my buddy today who got his kicked back from "sudjak" or whatever. It said basically that someone other than the doctor himself signed the application and that my buddy had 60 days, to get a new physicians certification form sent to the state or he'd have to pay again - so he wasn't "denied" he was basically "voided" and told to correct the mistake. Anyway, seems like good news - my buddy went to well docs in boulder, so instead of a denial he gets to fix it and send it back - granted he is likely out the doctor visit $ as he will have to pay again to have a new form submitted (since well docs is closed and are a bunch of fu*kheads)

[DenverRelief]

Thanks for the info!

[adkben]

Ya, I saw his application and it said "lenny sudjak" or whatever and then was clearly signed by someone else. IDK how much more "fraudulent" it could be to get denied but from what I have read/heard he should have been denied not rejected. Maybe they had a last minute change or heart? Seems weird that KushPhotos was good, my buddies was rejected but noone I know yet has been "denied" - maybe kushphotos was one of the FEW people to actually see "sudjak" and because of that got approved? As far as I know it is not a licensing issue but an issue w/ PA's signing forms - IMO Sudjak should, ethically, be holding open clinic hours for ALL patients that were denied because of the PA's using his name etc. my .02 ;)

[copobo]

I know people that worked in Welldocs Boulder. The employees thought they were doing it the right way. The doc thought what he was doing is legal. They are all activists who believe in the mmj program. The CPHE changed the rules and as soon as they let welldocs know, they stopped using PAs, closed down that day. Everyone pretty much lost their job then and there, and that's where the info ends from me because my friends were out of a job that day (sept?). It appears they since reopened with a new doc, and who knows who owns it, or if its still going.

The point is, I really believe the fraud is ALL on the CDPHE. They are fucking patients over to screw welldocs and other cheap options for a red card out of existence.

[oregonblazin]

I went in November 18th at Well Docs in Boulder (The place had just changed to Rocky Mountain Patient Services) and saw a Doctor named Stacy Livingwell. It has been the 35 days so no more dispensary visits for me. I called CDPHE and they said my app is still processed and it is a good and a bad thing, could be approved or denied. Said I'd most likely hear about it mid January. Hoping I don't get fucked in the fiasco.

Also I can't get in contact with "Rocky mountain patient services" so I figure they are out of business.

[cornbread]

Oregon, I saw the same person on 11/11/11 but came in here and saw problems.
I did not send my application/renewal in to the CDPHE.
You may be OK...I just didn't want to wait with a "maybe" or even worse - a 6 month probation period.
AFAIK, Kushphotos (a poster above) is one of the first to receive anything back from the CDPHE after waiting 3 months.

[KushPhotos]

Oregon, I saw the same person on 11/11/11 but came in here and saw problems.
I did not send my application/renewal in to the CDPHE.
You may be OK...I just didn't want to wait with a "maybe" or even worse - a 6 month probation period.
AFAIK, Kushphotos (a poster above) is one of the first to receive anything back from the CDPHE after waiting 3 months.

I was thinking about it and I probably sent my paperwork in mid-to-late-October. Also, for those sitting on their paperwork, I went to the wellDocs off of about 80th and Federal. I'm not sure if it is the location that made a difference or not. Good luck to the rest of you. Any dispensaries looking for a web designer to trade meds with?

[CDS]

Well Docs phone line is saying they'll see anyone who was rejected free of charge. At least they're owning up to their mistake.

[cornbread]

You'd have to wait months for the rejection first. :stoned:

[CDS]

Actually, rejections don't require a wait, just denials.

[DenverRelief]

Actually, rejections don't require a wait, just denials.

but, many people are still waiting to be rejected so that they can reapply.

[oregonblazin]

Wondering if there are any dispensaries in the boulder area that will let me in even though my 35 days is up, or any care givers with dank flowers or hash oil

[cornbread]

^
Call them up and ask. I'm going to take a wild guess and say no, they're not willing to lose everything because of one potential patient.
Well Docs = Fool me once, shame on you - Fool me twice...shame on me

[oregonblazin]

^
Call them up and ask. I'm going to take a wild guess and say no, they're not willing to lose everything because of one potential patient.
Well Docs = Fool me once, shame on you - Fool me twice...shame on me

yeah I made terrapin my caregiver but I don't think it changes their dispensary rules

[copobo]

^
Call them up and ask. I'm going to take a wild guess and say no, they're not willing to lose everything because of one potential patient.
Well Docs = Fool me once, shame on you - Fool me twice...shame on me

the MMAPA was running the same process as welldocs (the non-profit mobil docs that serve low income/rural areas).

The blame falls squarely on the CDPHE.

I personally, am almost at 90 days with no card, denial, or rejection. I should have had one of those things in 35 days.

[copobo]

hey CDS - what phone number are you calling for them?

[mustangwomyn]

the MMAPA was running the same process as welldocs (the non-profit mobil docs that serve low income/rural areas).

The blame falls squarely on the CDPHE.

I personally, am almost at 90 days with no card, denial, or rejection. I should have had one of those things in 35 days.


Or Less, Mine came in 3 weeks back in Sept / Oct, fortunately I seen a doctor that had no issues & it wasn't through Well Docs

[cornbread]

You aren't going to believe this...
I just got off the phone with a doctor's office and he mentioned some guy has re-opened well docs under another name in boulder and is continuing to rip off patients using the same scheme (PA's).
Also mentioned was a huge finger-pointing argument going on over at denver.craigslist.org

[copobo]

i just saw that on the Denver CL today, looking for the welldocs number.

I am not finding anything advertised in Boulder but the DO on 55th, who is not associated with them.

[SoCoMMJ]

should have had one of those things in 35 days.

You should have one of those things in 10 days from the time you first mail your app. CDPHE is such a piece of shit. There I said it!

[adkben]

+1 on the # for well docs...

[KushPhotos]

Here is a link (http://denver.craigslist.org/hab/2692354165.html) to an advertisement I dug up with a little research. They do seem to have mainly disappeared from CraigsList but I did find this. From the advert:


Welldocs Evaluations
Well Docs proudly employs licensed doctors and no NAs or PAs to meet CDPHE regulations. Three offices accommodate your unique schedule. We are merging with Rocky Mountain Patient Services (under new management). The new offices will be located at Colorado & Louisiana and 80th and Federal. Call for more information @ 303-284-7154. Increased plant Notations for Edibles now available call 303-955-2742 or 303-962-9522 for information.

Welldocs appointments can be scheduled at the three locations below:

70 N Broadway Denver 303-962-9522 Mon Tues and Thurs 3:30pm-7:30pm Sat 10:30am-3:30pm

2949 West Alameda Ave. Unit #2 (2nd floor) 303-993-4557 Mon 10:30am-1:30pm Tues - Thurs 4:00pm-7:30pm Friday 2:00pm-6:00pm

2995 Baseline Rd Unit #112 303-284-7154

Monday 11-4 Tuesday 3-7 Wednesday 3-7 Edible Notations are available.@

[cornbread]

I think I can help, too, if you really need meds quickly and got hung up on all this.
Nothing illegal - just a huge glaring loophole so big, they can't see it.
But since the CDPHE created all this, I have zero sympathy.
PM me and see if I'm right.

[copobo]

I'll bight, no pm on this site, if it''s a loop hole, lets hear it!

[cornbread]

Yes...I just noticed no PM. Sorry about that chief.
I can now think of a couple of scenerios. [correct me if I'm wrong]

One is to go back to the "new" well docs for free since you've already paid. The new paperwork will at least be good for 35 days at dispensaries and 60 days at the CDPHE.
Another is, while you're waiting out your decision on well docs and can afford it, to just go out and get another doc's rec good for 35 days at dispensaries and 60 days at the CDPHE.

At least this way patients can still get meds while they wait on the CDPHE decision. I'm sure the CDPHE is probably reading this and CL, too, with their newly created mmj division. Colorado's model could be like Hawaii's - just grow up to a certain amount yourself - no dispensaries.

Personally, I'm not sending in any well docs paperwork.

[copobo]

this might be a valid theory for someone getting their card for the first time. Renewals don't get to use the paperwork from the doc.

THANK GOD I GROW FOR MYSELF. and also, thankfully, there are other card holders in my house, so our 5 plants (err trees) are as legal as they can be.

[copobo]

also, FYI, red card district was using the same doctor (with PAs) as welldocs. There was also a clinic in Steamboat using the same guy + PAs.

I finally got a letter back from the CDPHE and since there were 2 signatures, they are requiring a new doctor form but not another $90. They also extended the time to complete the paperwork.

I would like to see a real doctor today. Especially one that will discuss extracts / edibles / and increased counts (which I only want to be able to feel safe popping some seeds). I don't mind driving a bit to see a REAL doc. (Boulder, Denver, Ned)

[cornbread]

Thanks for the info. I knew I was missing a piece of the puzzle.

You're a lucky man to be able to grow yourself. I'm in a one-bedroom apt with a mother-in-law wanting to crash on our couch all the time.

You've also convinced me the CDPHE is totally retarded.

[mustangwomyn]

I finally got a letter back from the CDPHE and since there were 2 signatures, they are requiring a new doctor form but not another $90. They also extended the time to complete the paperwork.

I would like to see a real doctor today. Especially one that will discuss extracts / edibles / and increased counts (which I only want to be able to feel safe popping some seeds). I don't mind driving a bit to see a REAL doc. (Boulder, Denver, Ned)

This is the doctor I saw: Home (http://www.thecaringdoc.com/)

I don't know if he does increased counts but he does take the time to discuss your situation, even provided me a handout on pain Management when I seen him & I had no problem getting my card back.

[CDS]

The contact number I've been calling is 303.962.9522. I've outlined the process and included an MP3 of the recording below.

Rejected Medical Marijuana Patients Can Get A Free Referral (http://www.cdscenters.com/blog/2011/12/30/welldocs-see-rejected-patients-free-of-charge/)

[truthinwords]

My wife and I submitted our application on 10-07-2011, and sad to say we have not heard anything from the CDH. We we were seen at the South federal Well Docs Location and by the doctor mentioned in this thread. Well we called today and we were told that our card was mailed out today. So those of us that are affected by this investigation keep in touch with the CHD and I will keep in touch with you all. I know that this is frustrating but I hope that all that need their card gets it. Peace and blessings. Truthinwords!!!!

[truthinwords]

My wife and I submitted our application on 10-07-2011, and sad to say we have not heard anything from the CDH. We we were seen at the South federal Well Docs Location and by the doctor mentioned in this thread. Well we called today and we were told that our card was mailed out today. So those of us that are affected by this investigation keep in touch with the CHD and I will keep in touch with you all. I know that this is frustrating but I hope that all that need their card gets it. Peace and blessings. Truthinwords!!!!

[cornbread]

Looks like it's taking approx 3 months to get your card via welldocs compared to the standard 2 weeks or less. If not growing, you'll need meds to cover all the additional scrutiny...or just go to another doctor. Someone on craigslist wanted their dispensary to reimburse them for recommending welldocs. I can't really blame them since the same thing happened to me. Fortunately, I did buy enough for 3 months while the CDPHE screwed up.

How did I know?

[CDS]

Looks like it's taking approx 3 months to get your card via welldocs compared to the standard 2 weeks or less.

If you're being seen by a DO or MD, no matter what the clinic, you should be processed in 35 days now. The CDPHE investigation is finished to the best of my knowledge. If you haven't received a rejection or denial letter, I'd encourage you to contact the CDPHE directly like truthinwords did. If you did receive a rejection letter and were seen by WellDocs initially, bring that letter to them ASAP and they'll see you for no additional charge.

[cornbread]

What if you haven't sent in anything from a welldocs renewal?
The reason I ask is because I just came from an scheduled appt. with another doctor and found 20 eighteen-year-olds waiting in front of me. It would have taken hours so I left.

[copobo]

what are you asking?

[cornbread]

CDS Boulder - 2995 Baseline Rd, Suite 110, Boulder CO 80303 seems to have suggestions for all the rest of the scenerios - but what if you haven't sent anything from a welldocs renewal into the CDPHE?

:smokin:

[copobo]

if you are SURE you saw a doctor, you could send it in. If you aren't SURE then go get another rec. from someone you are sure of and send it in instead. If you've not sent anything to the state, all of your options are open.

[oregonblazin]

Update: I received my Red Card yesterday January 7th. It is dated the 4th. I saw Stacy Livingwell at the Welldocs Boulder location. Got my paperwork November 18th and it was received on the 25th of November. Good luck to anyone waiting but you should be good if you saw Stacy Livingwell.

[cornbread]

^That's who I saw and it was determined she was a real doctor.
Wait a second...It took a week for the CDPHE to receive it?
I've only 3 days left...

Nobody's sure of anything....especially with welldocs.
Curious who copobo saw at the same location...

[copobo]

I saw a PA, back in mid Sept. I heard they re-opened with only docs sometime in Oct.

[oregonblazin]

nah I sent it in like 4 5 days after i got it

[cornbread]

Looks like I forgot that Dec has 31 days. Now it's only 2 days. It's gonna be close. Fortunately, you can send certified priority from a machine at 3 in the morning if you want.
I think I'll go out and buy a bag in the meantime :thumbsup:
Perhaps visit another doc and have some fun with them
All kinds of things to do
Mostly have a great time while laughing at their system :cool:

[truthinwords]

That is so true. My wife and i just got our cards in the mail. We all must remember there are less than 10 people doing thousands of applications. Check your doctor check your doctor before you go in

[HighPopalorum]

I'm surprised WellDocs allowed patients to see a PA. Why not just hit patients over the head as they walk in and take their money? Scum, scum, scum. I sure hope everyone gets their money back from these assholes. That said, the state is exacerbating patients' problems by keeping these apps in bureaucratic limbo.

[copobo]

there were many clinics using PAs for a couple years before this. This was not some grand discovery of fraud on the part of the Dept. of Health - they knew all along this was going on and this was perfectly acceptable to them until they decided it wasn't.

[HighPopalorum]

The law is crystal clear: anyone who recommends marijuana must be a medical doctor without license restrictions. Clinics who use PAs should have obeyed it.

[cornbread]

I mailed my renewal on the 9th certified & priority and it took 3 days to go 20 miles?
Now it looks like I'm just another MMJ patient turning to illegal meds...
Thanks CDPHE!

I lost about $100 dealing with these slobs

[mustangwomyn]

I mailed my application to change my card to indigent status on the 9th as well. Fortunately I have a valid card till Sept, so if they jack around it won't:stoned: hurt me too much

[copobo]

I ended up seeing another doc this week. they were nice, spent 30 seconds with me, took my money. Hopefully everything goes through this time, but I must say, this whole doc thing is a sham. I was given more attention by the PA at welldocs, These people are all nice and they are doing God's work, but they are just making a buck turning paperwork. The list of conditions in Colorado is such that really anyone could qualify. The state should just cut the doctor sham out and collect a statement from the patient as to their condition.

this is just a different hoop, but nobody is any more or less safe and more people aren't being weeded out.

[cornbread]

who'd you see? the doc at 55th and arapahoe in boulder?

[namaste1]

I had been told nothing but amazing things from friends about Fully Alive Medicine in Boulder. My friends who have reffered me said that they will never go anywhere else. It's a holistic family practice not just a fly by night welldocs etc.. I was skeptical because most docs I have seen over the years are just like Copobos experience 30 secs in and out, not right to those of us who are truly in need of medicine and a good relationship with a doctor that will be there the next year or anytime you need them. Sorry for my rant guys let me get to the point.. I ended up going to Fully Alive Medicine and was taken in with the upmost care that I have ever recieved from any doctor. Dr.Cohen and the whole staff where so friendly and helpful. I sat with Dr Cohen for 25 min or more discussing my aliment that brought me in and feel he truly cares about his pateints well being. Thats why I'm reffering them as they are the best doctors in Colorado and I will be going back next year with no stress at all. Here is a link to genbook that has over 50 reviews on them Schedule an online appointment with Fully Alive Medicine in Boulder, Colorado (http://www.genbook.com/bookings/slot/reservation/30173068/reviews) you can also make an appointment on there as well.(HA welldocs SCAMMERS beat that!oops I forgot they are out of buisness. Wonder why?) Hope it helps the people that are actually looking for compassionate care and real Doctors from a holistic approach. ~Namaste

[copobo]

who'd you see? the doc at 55th and arapahoe in boulder?

I'll only be identifying them if there's an issue getting the card. I don't want to jinx myself or others.

[cornbread]

I had been told nothing but amazing things from friends about Fully Alive Medicine in Boulder. My friends who have reffered me said that they will never go anywhere else. It's a holistic family practice not just a fly by night welldocs etc.. I was skeptical because most docs I have seen over the years are just like Copobos experience 30 secs in and out, not right to those of us who are truly in need of medicine and a good relationship with a doctor that will be there the next year or anytime you need them. Sorry for my rant guys let me get to the point.. I ended up going to Fully Alive Medicine and was taken in with the upmost care that I have ever recieved from any doctor. Dr.Cohen and the whole staff where so friendly and helpful. I sat with Dr Cohen for 25 min or more discussing my aliment that brought me in and feel he truly cares about his pateints well being. Thats why I'm reffering them as they are the best doctors in Colorado and I will be going back next year with no stress at all. Here is a link to genbook that has over 50 reviews on them Schedule an online appointment with Fully Alive Medicine in Boulder, Colorado (http://www.genbook.com/bookings/slot/reservation/30173068/reviews) you can also make an appointment on there as well.(HA welldocs SCAMMERS beat that!oops I forgot they are out of buisness. Wonder why?) Hope it helps the people that are actually looking for compassionate care and real Doctors from a holistic approach. ~Namaste

Looks very expensive
I got into trouble just by coming in here
Until I'm sorted out, I'll sugggest forgetting the doctors and the CDPHE altogether
I've already wasted $100 that could have been spent on meds
I'm sorry I ever got involved with this lame program.
Fortunately, I'm moving to Hawaii in a few years.
Until then, I'm going back to the guy with the tarantula...

[copobo]

they don't see how penalizing the patients, as opposed to non-compliant doctors, devalues the program. The CDPHE needs to offer advanced warning if they are going to change what they consider to be acceptable. They need to warn clinics that are operating in such a way as to become non-compliant, and they need to notify patients as to new standards so patients know what to look out for. To all of a sudden stop accepting recs from PAs, after doing so and communicating directly with PAs for over 2 years, with no notice.. is criminal.

[HighPopalorum]

I don't think anyone needs to be penalized. The problem is the delay. Ostensibly, this program serves the terminally and seriously-ill citizens of CO. It's unseemly to make them wait for legal palliative care. If apps signed by PAs were approved, I'm thinking it's because the CDPHE didn't even bother checking to see if they were doctors. A20 is dead-specific on physician requirements: an M.D. and a clear license in the state of Colorado. Even if your app was signed by Mickey Mouse and notarized by Hitler, the state needs to work harder to respond to applications within 35 days.

[copobo]

you are right: If they could timely process the applications, everyone would be better off. They did check the doctor names on each and every app for the last 2 years as they were rejecting apps by 2 notable docs with restrictions - one an OBGYN with a mark on her record regarding emergency delivery procedures, though her DEA license remained in tact, and another a surgeon who developed a hand tremor and went into mmj after he had a restriction placed on his license in regards to surgery (he did nothing wrong).

They KNEW and ACCEPTED recs from PAs for a long time. PAs communicated with the DOH about rules and procedures on forms and identified themselves as such. It was a policy change, clear and simple. If not, and you are correct, the entire department should be replaced as they simply failed to do their jobs. Some journalist will eventually run with this info and do an FOI request regarding procedural information requests from physicians offices - then, maybe we'll have a real clue about who knew what and when.

[CDS]

Warren Edson brought up that point in an interview I did with him, Copobo. Why the sudden change in policy if PA's have been seeing patients for years?

The delay was the real issue though. Shows what kind of disregard they have for the MMJ program to leave patients in limbo for months.

[CDS]

Wanted to let everyone know that we had a patient who was rejected after visiting WellDocs. WD saw them free of charge on 1/18 and received their card 12 days later.

Haven't heard anything on mobile docs yet.