What the hell is going on?? Now here Come The Feds!

[MedicalMike]

Calif. pot dispensaries told to shut down - US news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44806723/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/calif-pot-dispensaries-told-feds-shut-down?gt1=43001)

[CanGroIt]

Makes me wanna throw up....

I don't know about anyone else but I'm tired of these people in Washington trying to dictate our thoughts/actions.... Why do we continue to accept the fear mongering???

Politicians are not morally motivated.... Cash drives this bus.... And now the Federal government wants to make every med user a criminal....so they can fill jails with more people who will have to pay fines.... I wonder if this is part of Obamas jobs plan???....

It's going to take whole state populations to stand up to the Feds and say, enough is enough.... The War on Drugs is really a War on the People.... The Feds are seeing how much money the "common folk" are making and they don't like it.... Why??? Because everyday ordinary citizens are making shiploads of money from med cannabis and they don't like that.... The top 1% billionairs want to keep the majority poor....so they pay politicians to make moves that suppress any real progress for ordinary people.... We're slaves, as long as we continue to let ourselves be subject to such irrational and unethical government behavior....

I just know that I'm sick of these douchebags in our nations capital who throw laws out there to keep the population from prospering.... They have no clue of their immoral unjust behavior....

CGI::::::

[Purple Daddy]

IMO this was a long time coming!

The intent behind compassionate use laws were to let people grow their own medicaiton without fear of prosecution and if it had been left at that we wouldn't be having this conversation. People all jumped on the dispensary bandwagon being either terribly niave or being terribly stupid, we had NBC doing prime time news stories on co-op's and their growers. It seemed to me many of these growers and dispensary operators were very smug when being interviewed, like they were getting away with something and they knew it. That is coming to an end and there will be a lot of legal fallout as a result, some will think they can challenge this in the courts but they better have very deep pockets cause it will be a very long and very drug out fight. The only way the federal law changes is if enough states can create an amendment to the constitution and that is a real long shot and unlikely to heppen.

Colorado is next and if I'm registered with the state I'm more then just a little worried. The fed's get their hands on all that documentation and it will be too easy to shut the entire operation down.

[denverbear]

I could be wrong but legaly I don't believe the feds can get ahold of the registry...and if they do we are all screwed.

[DenverRelief]

IMO this was a long time coming!
The only way the federal law changes is if enough states can create an amendment to the constitution and that is a real long shot and unlikely to heppen.

Colorado is next and if I'm registered with the state I'm more then just a little worried. The fed's get their hands on all that documentation and it will be too easy to shut the entire operation down.

It won't be that easy because Colorado is a state with a constitutional amendment for MMJ and now 3 additional pieces of legislation regulating how the industry runs. This is a stark contrast from California.

That said, there is no guaranteed immunity from Federal prosecution, but Colorado relative to other medical marijuana states, has been largely untouched by Federal intervention.

Maybe it's because the dispensary model is younger here than in California, but maybe it's because we have a transparent regulatory model that requires everything be done above the board.

As an employee of Denver Relief, I am not worried that the Feds are going to get my name. I publish under my full name on our blog. I will not hide from them because I firmly believe that we aren't doing anything wrong.

It's difficult to make a strong argument about what compassionate use laws intend. We play out that intent every day and law enforcement, legislation, and courts are participating in that process.

It is indeed frustrating that the Feds, faced with limited resources, use underhanded tactics such as this one to intimidate business owners into going out of business, but in a certain positive regard it reflects how limited their resources truly are.

Between this threat, banking, and the IRS BS that Harborside is facing, there has been some bad news for the MMJ community this week.

To me it means that now is the time more than ever that we stop hiding in our basements with our precious few plants and demand with our stubborn presence that authoritarian policies are destroying our country.

As to the smugness, I can only say that it is indeed exciting to endeavor into running a medical marijuana center, and that despite the risk of criminal prosecution, we believe that we are are a part of a movement that can bring about positive change.

[CanGroIt]

The intent behind compassionate use laws were to let people grow their own medicaiton without fear of prosecution and if it had been left at that we wouldn't be having this conversation. People all jumped on the dispensary bandwagon

The dispensary "bandwagon" started out of need.... The need for people to have safe access to medical grade cannabis.... Not everyone can grow their own.... Some people wouldn't even know how to get a hold of med grade cannabis if dispensaries/distributers weren't around.... And since the only price guidelines that anyone had experienced from bomb ass indoor were the illegal street market prices, the dispensaries figured that because now they are operating in a legal manner (having to pay taxes and other overhead costs) they could justify asking the same price....

So had people only grown their own and dispensaries never existed, we'd have individual growers posting ads to supply other patients who cannot grow theirs....

This Drug War is a huge sham.... Just like speeding tickets or seat belt laws....they claim to be in place to protect us, for our safety, when in reality all it does is justify a traffic stop and traffic fine.... They pull you over and make you pay a fine because you might get into an accident or cause one and be injured....no no no their American citizen.... You can't ride in your car without a seatbelt.... Cause if you do, you MIGHT get hurt.... And since we don't want that, we are going to pull over every single car that has a passenger in it riding without a seatbelt fastened....and fine you.... Because we care about your safety....

Excuse me while I go toke a bowl to calm down....:jointsmile:....

CGI::::::

[Purple Daddy]

Don't kid yourself!

[Purple Daddy]

I get that some people can't grow for themselves and that is what the concept of a co-op is and how this was supposed to work. A co-op in the true sense only charges what real expense are, that doesn't include someone who chooses to grow indoors and spend a small fortune on a grow room has the right to charge $3,000 a lb. regardless of how they put a value on their time. Reasonable expenses for reasonable use of electricity etc. is one thing but charging people $50 an 8th because you think your process is worth of that price is absurd and absolutely not what these laws intended. If your neighbor agrees to grow inside for you and spends $500 on lighting and another $500 on various expenses and say $100 a month in electricty then thats money to be recovered but not at a profit. Legally growers aren't supposed to make a profit at all.

I'll probably get bashed for this because I sat on the Prop. 215 fence for a long time, I would agree with a lot of people that more people don't need it medically then do and compassionate use laws are more of a grass roots effort to eventually do away with prohibition. The way it's played out though has probably set that back a number of years. Look, I sat in the Dr. office a few months ago with a stack of medical documents to verify my claim for need, let me tell you most of the other people sitting in that office had NOTHING with them.

I don't believe lack of access is what drove this, I mean most people who needed this medically were already probably getting it. This is a very slippery slope and I hope people are smart and don't think they can challenge the Fed's. Easier to walk away now rather then face what will become a very expensive fight that will last years.

California has decriminilized posession of under an oz, that is a good start and should keep a lot of people out of jail and from fear of prosecution.

[DenverRelief]

I get that some people can't grow for themselves and that is what the concept of a co-op is and how this was supposed to work. A co-op in the true sense only charges what real expense are, that doesn't include someone who chooses to grow indoors and spend a small fortune on a grow room has the right to charge $3,000 a lb. regardless of how they put a value on their time. Reasonable expenses for reasonable use of electricity etc. is one thing but charging people $50 an 8th because you think your process is worth of that price is absurd and absolutely not what these laws intended. If your neighbor agrees to grow inside for you and spends $500 on lighting and another $500 on various expenses and say $100 a month in electricty then thats money to be recovered but not at a profit. Legally growers aren't supposed to make a profit at all.


The story is different here in Colorado. Profit is A-OK, though we haven't made any yet.

The revenue being generated is being put back in the business towards the cost of building and operating a complaint cultivation facility, licenses and fees out the wazoo, security, employees, etc.

We haven't taken money out of the company because we know that any successful business usually takes several years to build.

I don't think the question is whether a grower has the right to charge $3,000 a pound. At this point, it isn't about rights it's about economics.

Over the summer Colorado saw a price war that made $25 1/8ths the standard among discount shops.

We saw a slight loss in business and adjusted our prices to the market. We still charged more than $25 per 1/8th and likely always will but we grow quality medicine that justifies it.

Now, the supply isn't so flooded and prices are coming up again.

Supply and demand dictates this market just like any other, and my opinion (obviously biased) is that being in business is about making money. As long as we aren't scamming or taking advantage of patients, there is nothing wrong with receiving compensation for hard work.

Even the non-profit co-ops give a salary to those who operate them. Am I wrong?

[Purple Daddy]

Supply and demand dictates this market just like any other, and my opinion (obviously biased) is that being in business is about making money. As long as we aren't scamming or taking advantage of patients, there is nothing wrong with receiving compensation for hard work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

I'd be watching this CA action very, very closely. I understand the CO model however the federal government isn't going to accept it no matter how it is structured.

Just because CO says it's ok to make a profit as long as you have video of the product from end to end, every gram documented blah, blah, blah, doesn't mean the fed's won't shut it down tomorrow. In fact it seems to me they almost have to now, they can't come into CA with a heavy hand then just leave CO alone because they have a more structured model. It's legal in their eyes or it's not, there is no gray area.

[killerweed420]

It boils down to the constitution and more specifically the bill of rights 10th Amendment. States have the legal authority to allow for sale anything they want as long as it doesn't cross state lines. The commerce clause Article 12 come into play on this. Its whats commonly called the commerce clause. It gives the feds the right to regulate anything that crosses state lines and thats the point. MMJ does not cross state lines. Inform your governors that you are tired of them not upholding the constitution of this great land and that if they don't start doing that they need to be replaced.

[Purple Daddy]

It boils down to the constitution and more specifically the bill of rights 10th Amendment. States have the legal authority to allow for sale anything they want as long as it doesn't cross state lines. The commerce clause Article 12 come into play on this. Its whats commonly called the commerce clause. It gives the feds the right to regulate anything that crosses state lines and thats the point. MMJ does not cross state lines. Inform your governors that you are tired of them not upholding the constitution of this great land and that if they don't start doing that they need to be replaced. >>>>>

That is all fine and dandy and when the Fed's show up, shut everything down and confiscate everything you can sing the star spangled banner, god bless america or God Save the Queen, it won't mean shit.

Cannabis is not considered commerce by the federal government, it's a schedule 2 class of drug and illegal in all 50 states including the District of Columbia. IF state governers want to fight this more power to them but it's going to be a drawn out and expensive campaign. To get the constitution changed will require 2/3 of the states, that will never happen. The states have to sue to have it's status changed and that probably won't happen either.

The reality is that people took HUGE liberties in setting up shop in the face of federal prosecution assuming that(for whatever reason i don't know) state law would protect them. You can state any amendment or article you want it wont change the reality people are facing right now.

[copobo]

nothing will change until there is a medical program in 26 states.

[senorx12562]

The 10th amendment has pretty much been the rule that was swallowed by the exception ( the commerce clause) since the Supreme Court ruled, in Wickard v. Fillmore I think,that that the gummint could, under the auspices of the commerce clause, regulate what a farmer grew on his own property for the consumption of his own family only, which product never entered any stream of commerce, let alone interstate commerce, by reasoning that if the farmer's family hadn't had their own harvest to eat, they might have bought food out of the stream of commerce and therefor regulation was justified notwithstanding the 10th amendment. It's only gotten worse. The 10th amendment is a dead letter, at least for the time being. The cases ruling Obamacare unconstitutional will present the Supreme Court with the opportunity to overrule the Wickard v. Fillmore line of cases, but I'll believe it when I see it. Obama certainly has shown himself to be a lying sack of shit though.

[DenverRelief]

Obama certainly has shown himself to be a lying sack of shit though.

The only things that have changed are Obama's positions on which his campaign ran.

It is rather misfortunate that the prevailing attitude seems to be that any Republican candidate, unless a moderate comes out of the cracks, only increases Obama's chance of reelection.

We are so mired in the two party system, the whole citizen body doesn't even seem to be aware of more than two options.

[killerweed420]

The federal agencies have become so hopelessly corrupted by the big corporations that we can't rely on them doing the right and constitutional thing. Revolution is probably about the only option left to the people of this country and for the world for that matter. We were supposed to have a representative type of government, but the only people our politicians represent any more is big government and big corporations. Occupy wall street id happening for a reason and by next summer its going to get bigger.

[copobo]

from norml.org

"Earlier this week, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) issued a long-awaited $2.5 million ruling against a major medical cannabis dispensary in California. Citing an obscure part of the US tax code meant to target drug cartels, the federal agency is barring dispensaries, even those licensed under state law, from taking any business-related tax deductions and is seeking millions in dollars in back taxes.
This adverse ruling has the very real potential to stop the regulated sale of cannabis currently underway in California, Colorado, Maine and New Mexico; and planned in Arizona, Montana, Delaware, New Jersey, and Washington, D.C "

[Zedleppelin]

The story is different here in Colorado. Profit is A-OK, though we haven't made any yet.

The revenue being generated is being put back in the business towards the cost of building and operating a complaint cultivation facility, licenses and fees out the wazoo, security, employees, etc.

We haven't taken money out of the company because we know that any successful business usually takes several years to build.

I don't think the question is whether a grower has the right to charge $3,000 a pound. At this point, it isn't about rights it's about economics.

Over the summer Colorado saw a price war that made $25 1/8ths the standard among discount shops.

We saw a slight loss in business and adjusted our prices to the market. We still charged more than $25 per 1/8th and likely always will but we grow quality medicine that justifies it.

Now, the supply isn't so flooded and prices are coming up again.

Supply and demand dictates this market just like any other, and my opinion (obviously biased) is that being in business is about making money. As long as we aren't scamming or taking advantage of patients, there is nothing wrong with receiving compensation for hard work.

Even the non-profit co-ops give a salary to those who operate them. Am I wrong?


Don't forget to include all the money donated to CMMR to pay for the lobbyists to legislate your competition (caregivers) out of the picture.

[copobo]

that's a big part of the problem - the dispensaries have played along while we've been divided; and unconcerned when someone else's cannabis rights were taken away, NOW... the people who would be the biggest supporters, aren't in the game anymore..

[boaz]

The 10th amendment has pretty much been the rule that was swallowed by the exception ( the commerce clause) since the Supreme Court ruled, in Wickard v. Fillmore I think,that that the gummint could, under the auspices of the commerce clause, regulate what a farmer grew on his own property for the consumption of his own family only, which product never entered any stream of commerce, let alone interstate commerce, by reasoning that if the farmer's family hadn't had their own harvest to eat, they might have bought food out of the stream of commerce and therefor regulation was justified notwithstanding the 10th amendment. It's only gotten worse. The 10th amendment is a dead letter, at least for the time being. The cases ruling Obamacare unconstitutional will present the Supreme Court with the opportunity to overrule the Wickard v. Fillmore line of cases, but I'll believe it when I see it. Obama certainly has shown himself to be a lying sack of shit though.

yes, I believe that was 'Shrub and The Federalies' v. Raich that went to the Supremes. Its been a while back but I seem to recall the now departed (RIP) Chief Justice as well as Justice Thomas pretty much ruling the same thing you just said above. That a ruling for the federalies in this case would effectively make "the 10th amendment a dead letter". I think that was Justice Thomas' exact words in his dissent ruling comments.

I think certain 2nd ammendment cases have received exception from the commerce clause but I'm no expert.

[waterdog]

that's a big part of the problem - the dispensaries have played along while we've been divided; and unconcerned when someone else's cannabis rights were taken away, NOW... the people who would be the biggest supporters, aren't in the game anymore..



Yea ....Too bad huh !!!

[boaz]

what the supremes never talked about, was my argument. :rastasmoke: in the 1930's ruling on wheat it was assumed that the gov't had a right to force a state to purchase a certain crop from other states and, under some ag bill, it did have that right. In the recent case against the people of California, there is no law that requires a state to purchase cannabis from another state or anywhere else. The only "interstate commerce" that is affected is black market commerce. This case ruled that the state of California had no right to allow it citizens to grow their own because it would interfere with interstate black market commerce.

if you look at the big picture from Gun Walker to all the rest this seems to be exactly what is going on to me. :twocents:

[HighPopalorum]

It is rather misfortunate that the prevailing attitude seems to be that any Republican candidate, unless a moderate comes out of the cracks, only increases Obama's chance of reelection.

We are so mired in the two party system, the whole citizen body doesn't even seem to be aware of more than two options.

I think there really are only two options w/r/t medical marijuana: Obama wins or your business is raided, shuttered, and you face trial and federal prison time.

[AchinGranny]

I could be wrong but legaly I don't believe the feds can get ahold of the registry...and if they do we are all screwed.

They want to throw this grandmother in jail? Bring it on! I'm so sick of being intimidated by the same jerks I voted into office... When you are in pain that makes you want to take a swan dive off of a high building then you no longer have anything to lose.

Hang in there kids! XOXO

[DenverRelief]

I think there really are only two options w/r/t medical marijuana: Obama wins or your business is raided, shuttered, and you face trial and federal prison time.

I don't share your pessimism. In a year's time MMJ will have continued to gain public support, and any serious candidate is going to have to become somewhat moderate, at least a hands-off attitude as Obama claimed he would have in 2008.

This is also assuming that if Obama doesn't win, it's going to be (insert ignorant Republican mouthpiece here)? That was my point exactly. We are a year away from the election, but the candidates and the outcome is already decided?

All that's left to do is fill in the details so that another election can play out in the same predictable manner that it has for the last half-century. When we allow those in power to frame the debate, the only debate that takes place is between false opponents who work together to engender more power for themselves.

[HighPopalorum]

"In a year's time MMJ will have continued to gain public support, and any serious candidate is going to have to become somewhat moderate, at least a hands-off attitude as Obama claimed he would have in 2008."

Don't be naive. You're committing a federal crime for which the punishment is the death penalty. I don't expect you to be lined up and shot, but I do expect any Republican administration will seek to make some examples of dispensary owners and employees by handing out some of those harsh sentences for which federal sentencing guidelines are famous. They'll shut you down. They'll threaten your bank, your insurance company, your landlord with probes and RICO prosecutions unless they dump you. They'll make it impossible for you to do business, even if they don't arrest you.

[senorx12562]

I think there really are only two options w/r/t medical marijuana: Obama wins or your business is raided, shuttered, and you face trial and federal prison time.

Out of curiosity, what is the basis for your belief that it makes a bit of difference who is elected vis-a-vis mmj? Do you believe Obama's Justice Dept. is going off the reservation and contradicting his orders, or are they following them? In any event, his administration's actions clearly contradict his public pronouncements and it appears that no mmj business is safe under this administration or the next, whatever the party.

[HighPopalorum]

Out of curiosity, what is the basis for your belief that it makes a bit of difference who is elected vis-a-vis mmj?

Simple. Obama's JD (so far) has not raided or otherwise interfered with MMCs in Colorado. This is a major departure from the previous administration's policy.



Do you believe Obama's Justice Dept. is going off the reservation and contradicting his orders, or are they following them? In any event, his administration's actions clearly contradict his public pronouncements and it appears that no mmj business is safe under this administration or the next, whatever the party.

I think they're following his orders, otherwise they would have shut the industry down by now. My intuition is that the JD is acting in cases where state law is unclear or non-existent (CA) and in states where the governor / legislature is hostile to MMJ and asks for federal LEO assistance (MT). Our growing body of regulatory law keeps criminal organizations out of the business and maintains vigilant oversight of inventory and revenue, lessening the risk of tax fraud and money-laundering. Of course, I may be wrong; Obama could shutter every MMC in America tomorrow, if he chose.

I do think, however, that even the most authoritarian Republican administration will leave patients alone and focus on retailers. MMJ is a bell you can't really un-ring.

[DenverRelief]

MMJ is a bell you can't really un-ring.

In this vein, I hope that any person making public policy decisions regarding MMJ will see that shutting down retail locations removes transparency and opens the door to cartels.

Politically it is the stronger position to say, "I support making MMJ available, and making it safe, while keeping it out of the hands of minors, and ensuring that only local product is sold, and that proportionate taxes are collected" rather than "I support making MMJ available, and I don't care where it comes from so prosecute anyone who ever worked or owned an MMC and let the patients and caregivers fare for themselves."

Nor do I see the Colorado AG letting the Feds undercut CO legislation in this manner.

HB1284, and HB1043, aren't going to be un-rung.

I've said it before, and it's worth repeating, the regulations are a daily pain in my butt, yet the legitimacy offered by State law protects us and sets an example that hopefully other states will follow.

Responsible, professional, and transparent is the way to move MMJ forward.

Even the most authoritarian Republican may be able to see that they in fact get more authority through regulation, because they can curb cartels, and watch those selling MMJ to keep it above the board not to mention the beleaguered fact of tax-revenue.

[HighPopalorum]

I hope you're right. Romney seems to be back on top of the Republican dog pile, and he has a record of not upsetting the status quo on social issues in MA. I hope he takes a "hands off" approach to MMJ and broader drug-policy liberalization if elected.

I don't share your faith in AG Suthers. Only a few days ago, (sharing the stage with a DEA agent) he claimed the entire retail model was fraudulent, a complete joke and a failed experiment. You better watch out if state government changes hands and he gets taken off the leash.

[DenverRelief]

I don't share your faith in AG Suthers. Only a few days ago, (sharing the stage with a DEA agent) he claimed the entire retail model was fraudulent, a complete joke and a failed experiment. You better watch out if state government changes hands and he gets taken off the leash.

Thanks for sharing. What was the event?

Sad to hear the man charged with upholding Colorado law finds it farcical. :wtf:

[HighPopalorum]

It was a debate on legalization at the Vail Symposium on August 17. Polis was arguing the other side.

Here are Suthers' opening remarks:

john suthers marijuana debate vail symposium 081711 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/V2b7zWyIRxA)

[copobo]

Polis rocks.

[senorx12562]

Polis rocks.

Unfortunately, it is about the only issue upon which I agree with him, and I'm not a single issue voter.

[Purple Daddy]

I've said it before, and it's worth repeating, the regulations are a daily pain in my butt, yet the legitimacy offered by State law protects us and sets an example that hopefully other states will follow.
>>>>>>>>>>>

Please don't kid yourself! They are going after print and TV advertising in CA now.

There really is no gray area here, just because CO has more stringent controls they are in voilation of federal law, you can't shut down one state and let the others continue to operate.

I believe they are going after CA first because the lack of oversight makes it easy pickings and sends a warning shot to the other states to either take action or the fed's will. I just saw someone posting about a new dispensary near the bay area, LOL, well that would be a very short lived operation.

People simply have ignored the warning signs over the past 8 months.

[HighPopalorum]

Polis is a good guy. In addition to drug policy liberalization, he's also been a strong opponent of the wars and a big supporter of gay equality, two other pet issues of mine. He would get my vote (again) if I still lived in his district.

[DenverRelief]

Please don't kid yourself! They are going after print and TV advertising in CA now.

There really is no gray area here, just because CO has more stringent controls they are in voilation of federal law, you can't shut down one state and let the others continue to operate.

I believe they are going after CA first because the lack of oversight makes it easy pickings and sends a warning shot to the other states to either take action or the fed's will. I just saw someone posting about a new dispensary near the bay area, LOL, well that would be a very short lived operation.

People simply have ignored the warning signs over the past 8 months.

The Feds aren't going into California sweeping every dispensary into the gutter.

They have selected "seedy", less scrupulous businesses that may be selling to minors or undercover officers have visited and seen weapons, etc.

Targeting media that advertise is another indication of limited Federal resources.

As to kidding myself, I'll admit to having a somewhat foolish optimism, but I am aware of the potential consequences.

I have been wondering what the catalyst was for this sudden change, and I have a strong sense that it is just presidential politics.

Obama will not lose California, not likely anyway, but he can appear tough on drugs and crime in swing states where MMJ isn't legal.

[Purple Daddy]

The Feds aren't going into California sweeping every dispensary into the gutter.

They have selected "seedy", less scrupulous businesses that may be selling to minors or undercover officers have visited and seen weapons, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>

Yeah, pretty much they are. Within 45 days most if not all shops will probably be closed, it is the "seedy" shops that brought unwanted attention to others. As of today TV stations have pulled advertising. I'm not sure anyone operating a dispensary right now is feeling any bit of security. Lawyers are looking at this and aren't offering much help.

They asked the guy at Harbor in Oakland what he was making and he refused to answer "it would be kind of like taunting the government".

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

I could be wrong but legaly I don't believe the feds can get ahold of the registry...and if they do we are all screwed.

oh, they can and will if they want. fed supercedes state. though i dont see them chasing the little guys unless they have a for rent sign on a prison for too long. cangroit is right though, its going to take a full on movement against our gov to change this crap. oppression should not be tolerated in this country or any other...period.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

The dispensary "bandwagon" started out of need.... The need for people to have safe access to medical grade cannabis.... Not everyone can grow their own.... Some people wouldn't even know how to get a hold of med grade cannabis if dispensaries/distributers weren't around.... And since the only price guidelines that anyone had experienced from bomb ass indoor were the illegal street market prices, the dispensaries figured that because now they are operating in a legal manner (having to pay taxes and other overhead costs) they could justify asking the same price....

So had people only grown their own and dispensaries never existed, we'd have individual growers posting ads to supply other patients who cannot grow theirs....

This Drug War is a huge sham.... Just like speeding tickets or seat belt laws....they claim to be in place to protect us, for our safety, when in reality all it does is justify a traffic stop and traffic fine.... They pull you over and make you pay a fine because you might get into an accident or cause one and be injured....no no no their American citizen.... You can't ride in your car without a seatbelt.... Cause if you do, you MIGHT get hurt.... And since we don't want that, we are going to pull over every single car that has a passenger in it riding without a seatbelt fastened....and fine you.... Because we care about your safety....

Excuse me while I go toke a bowl to calm down....:jointsmile:....

CGI::::::

yeah you got that right and to top it all off we have billboards saying we are watching you and we KNOW the signs of impairment. yet drunk drivers are roaming every day killing innocent people. the bandwagon was started when obama said it wasnt a federal priority to seek out dispensaries and their growers as long as they were compliant at the state level. guess what it wouldnt have lasted anyway because his term is almost up. its sooner than i expected and i fear that colorado is next on the list. take your time your time to cool down but that might take quite a few years.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

The only things that have changed are Obama's positions on which his campaign ran.

It is rather misfortunate that the prevailing attitude seems to be that any Republican candidate, unless a moderate comes out of the cracks, only increases Obama's chance of reelection.

We are so mired in the two party system, the whole citizen body doesn't even seem to be aware of more than two options.

what ever happened to being American? these fools forget that they work for us and perhaps we have also. meanwhile the working class keeps getting sucked down into a vortex of poverty while the upper crust has shots of booze(and probably smoking the reefer) at our expense. republican, democrat makes no difference the system is a disaster.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

I don't share your pessimism. In a year's time MMJ will have continued to gain public support, and any serious candidate is going to have to become somewhat moderate, at least a hands-off attitude as Obama claimed he would have in 2008.

This is also assuming that if Obama doesn't win, it's going to be (insert ignorant Republican mouthpiece here)? That was my point exactly. We are a year away from the election, but the candidates and the outcome is already decided?

All that's left to do is fill in the details so that another election can play out in the same predictable manner that it has for the last half-century. When we allow those in power to frame the debate, the only debate that takes place is between false opponents who work together to engender more power for themselves.

elections are had so that hard working people will actually believe they have a choice. it wasnt the intent of our forefathers im sure, however its been manipulated so that the wealthy are insured their money. what a bunch of pansies.

[CanGroIt]

elections are had so that hard working people will actually believe they have a choice. it wasnt the intent of our forefathers im sure, however its been manipulated so that the wealthy are insured their money. what a bunch of pansies.

:thumbsup:.... Hit the nail on the head....

These Presidential televised Debates are the equivalent to other "reality TV" shows.... Just a bunch of drama to entertain the masses.... All bells and whistles to help YOU the American citizen believe you are actually getting information to make an "educated decision".... What most Americans don't know is that their vote is more like a poll-because your "vote" doesn't really count for anything other than those at the top knowing what the people want.... And how many times does the gov listen to the people??? ...........still waiting........ That's right, they don't do anything the people want until drastic actions from the people are shown....

CGI::::::

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

:thumbsup:.... Hit the nail on the head....

These Presidential televised Debates are the equivalent to other "reality TV" shows.... Just a bunch of drama to entertain the masses.... All bells and whistles to help YOU the American citizen believe you are actually getting information to make an "educated decision".... What most Americans don't know is that their vote is more like a poll-because your "vote" doesn't really count for anything other than those at the top knowing what the people want.... And how many times does the gov listen to the people??? ...........still waiting........ That's right, they don't do anything the people want until drastic actions from the people are shown....

CGI::::::

of course whos to say we didnt come to this country and steal land from the indians, using tobacco, alcohol, and guns...just to make money seperate from the the british wealth. a whole new business sort of speak.

[Purple Daddy]

of course whos to say we didnt come to this country and steal land from the indians, using tobacco, alcohol, and guns...just to make money seperate from the the british wealth. a whole new business sort of speak. >>>>>>

While I don't think that was the original intent....TOUCHE!

[GratefulMeds]

[QU
MmmmmOTE=copobo;2210529]from norml.org

"Earlier this week, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) issued a long-awaited $2.5 million ruling against a major medical cannabis dispensary in California. Citing an obscure part of the US tax code meant to target drug cartels, the federal agency is barring dispensaries, even those licensed under state law, from taking any business-related tax deductions and is seeking millions in dollars in back taxes.
I am surprised the dispensaries out in Cali did not know this in the Tax Code??? Our accountant advised us this when we first hired her, dispensaries can only legally claim COGS as a write off and nothing more. That's why allot of us are struggling paying taxes that no other businesses are subject to the rates we have to pay!

This adverse ruling has the very real potential to stop the regulated sale of cannabis currently underway in California, Colorado, Maine and New Mexico; and planned in Arizona, Montana, Delaware, New Jersey, and Washington, D.C "
,?!MMM

[/QUOTE]

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

They want to throw this grandmother in jail? Bring it on! I'm so sick of being intimidated by the same jerks I voted into office... When you are in pain that makes you want to take a swan dive off of a high building then you no longer have anything to lose.

Hang in there kids! XOXO

thats why ive never voted. when there is someone worthy of my vote they will get it. i WILL NOT choose between a bunch of well to do soft handed pansies in the hopes everything will turn out fine. you go granny ill stand there with you.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

of course whos to say we didnt come to this country and steal land from the indians, using tobacco, alcohol, and guns...just to make money seperate from the the british wealth. a whole new business sort of speak. >>>>>>

While I don't think that was the original intent....TOUCHE!

INDEED:thumbsup: