Do you have to smoke pot to be a good grower?

[colagal]

We grow for patients who appreciate a good product; however our dilemma is that some (perhaps many) people are weary because we don't use our product: how can we know what we are doing? Or, it is wrong to "profit" if we are not users. Whatever, there seems to be a concern or general lack of trust. Of course when they see how relatively inexpensively our prices are ($150 oz), they tend to change their tunes, especially if it is good, which it usually is.

We depend upon our patients to tell us if what we grow is working for them. That and we can see if our plants are healthy. A healthy plant should be a good plant, which tends to translate into good bud. We are getting the idea that the measuring stick for a good bud is one that tends to put people on the couch and is not too harsh, even though not all want to be put on the couch but want a bud that packs some punch in order to be effective. Some want to be more or less functional. Anyway, we continue to supply "effective" meds even though we are not users. I don't think being non-users should be a problem, eh?

[copobo]

just curious- how/why did you get into growing?

[colagal]

just curious- how/why did you get into growing?

Someone sort of jokingly pointed out a local newspaper article saying that there was more demand for marijuana than supply in the western slope. So, we decided to contact the western slope representative of ASA to get an idea what is going on. The response was that there was a need for responsible, reliable and professional growers who can provide consistent "medical grade" marijuana at a reasonable price. The implication being that people were not satisfied in dealing with drug dealer types who were the only ones providing. This was before the dispensary boom. We already had horticulture experience - a family member is a florist. So, we dove into it. The ASA representative and her spouse took a leap of faith and made us their caregiver. After 6 months they were happily rewarded. And the rest is...history. Note: I had used marijuana during my stint in the military during the Viet Nam era, but not anymore.

[copobo]

I think it would be harder to not have experienced these strains for pain relief and in your head. That said, I'm SURE if there was a family member that had substantial horticulture experience... they were more ready to be a good grower than someone that just had experience smoking. Why do you worry? are you an mmc now?

[Purple Daddy]

I've known of a few people who didn't smoke but grew great bud and their prices were MUCH more reasonable. A friend of a friend grew a really nice crop and sold the plants whole, meaning you came to his place and picked your plant, took it home and trimmed it up yourself. I don't recall how much he charged but being a non smoker he only cared about his ROI! FWIW it was killer and I got about 20 seeds out of it which I'm growing right now!

[CDS]

You may want to try testing with Full Spectrum Labs. They're currently offering two free tests for patients/caregivers. There are a lot of testing labs out there, and debates about accuracy, but at least you'd have the ratios (which most people agree are fairly consistent) and a baseline for what you offer. We test fairly rigorously and our patients appreciate it. Good luck to you!

[colagal]

I think it would be harder to not have experienced these strains for pain relief and in your head. That said, I'm SURE if there was a family member that had substantial horticulture experience... they were more ready to be a good grower than someone that just had experience smoking. Why do you worry? are you an mmc now?

Just looking for feedback. Perhaps I am taking some of these negative perceptions too seriously.

[colagal]

I think it would be harder to not have experienced these strains for pain relief and in your head. That said, I'm SURE if there was a family member that had substantial horticulture experience... they were more ready to be a good grower than someone that just had experience smoking. Why do you worry? are you an mmc now?

In regards to the "experience", it seems to be variable from person to person. I haven't found the universal bud yet.

[copobo]

there is no universal bud. not even for one person. it will be the hardest part of cannabis to recreate for big pharma. if you are growing good buds, and helping people on the low end of the price spectrum, don't worry. jesus loves you.

[CanGroIt]

We grow for patients who appreciate a good product; however our dilemma is that some (perhaps many) people are weary because we don't use our product:......

Would you eat something a chef says he doesn't but has prepared for you??? Kinda the same....

But if it's good and people come back then I wouldn't put too much thought into it.... Many people have a hard time growing med grade cannabis for themselves and some cannot grow it at all, for whatever reason....so if you can provide what others can and will benefit from, who is to say it's wrong to make a living doing it???

Just my :twocents:....

CGI::::::

[colagal]

Would you eat something a chef says he doesn't but has prepared for you??? Kinda the same....

But if it's good and people come back then I wouldn't put too much thought into it.... Many people have a hard time growing med grade cannabis for themselves and some cannot grow it at all, for whatever reason....so if you can provide what others can and will benefit from, who is to say it's wrong to make a living doing it???

Just my :twocents:....

CGI::::::

I certainly understand your concern, but taking that analogy further, I don't imagine your everyday doctor uses most of the medicines they prescribe? At least I hope they don't. I am not saying caregivers are even close to doctors, but you know what I mean? We do however sample the edibles and lotions before we serve them up.

[colagal]

there is no universal bud. not even for one person. it will be the hardest part of cannabis to recreate for big pharma. if you are growing good buds, and helping people on the low end of the price spectrum, don't worry. jesus loves you.

Thanks for the reassurance.

[colagal]

To CDS. How often do you test? Do you test the same strain periodically (say, after each harvest) to see if you get the same values? And, are they the same?

[copobo]

your same strain should yield similar results with resin content. What you control each time is taste, aroma, density, and weight.

I'd be curious about submissions of same strain over different grows to FSL. (or even same strain, same grow, different names for the sake of the test, to test the consistency of the lab)

[CDS]

To CDS. How often do you test? Do you test the same strain periodically (say, after each harvest) to see if you get the same values? And, are they the same?

Great questions! We test every harvest, some strains twice in the same crop if we have areas that may have come under stress, plants that simply thrived more than others, etc. I have a book three inches thick at the shop with various tests.

One thing we learned early on is that if you're looking for tests to come out identically, you're going to be unhappy with the process. Most test consistently within a range and we're comfortable with that. For example, I have three tests for our Sour D I'm looking at right now between 18.57% THC and 21.76%.

The biggest advantage I see for a caregiver is being able to try different cultivation methods small-batch style and using testing to see which had the most dramatic effect. :thumbsup:

[CDS]

your same strain should yield similar results with resin content. What you control each time is taste, aroma, density, and weight.

I'd be curious about submissions of same strain over different grows to FSL. (or even same strain, same grow, different names for the sake of the test, to test the consistency of the lab)

When the pre-98 bubba took the highest CBD award at the medical cup, we were shocked because we thought we had the same cut and they had perhaps just flipped the results. Another example is the banana kush cut that has been floating around. The biggest problem with FSL is that they don't let you see all test results for a certain strain. Maybe they average the tests they get in?

[copobo]

I would like to see them publish aggregate data related to strains...the distribution of results for a given strain?

I can see that customers would want private info private, but including just the numbers could really help patients make better choices.

[colagal]

Great questions! We test every harvest, some strains twice in the same crop if we have areas that may have come under stress, plants that simply thrived more than others, etc. I have a book three inches thick at the shop with various tests.

One thing we learned early on is that if you're looking for tests to come out identically, you're going to be unhappy with the process. Most test consistently within a range and we're comfortable with that. For example, I have three tests for our Sour D I'm looking at right now between 18.57% THC and 21.76%.

The biggest advantage I see for a caregiver is being able to try different cultivation methods small-batch style and using testing to see which had the most dramatic effect. :thumbsup:

What exactly does the percentage THC mean? That in every crystal there is 18.57% THC and other various cannabinoids? If so, then is it possible that if one strain had, say, 12% THC, but had a lot of crystals, and another strain had 19% THC but not a lot of crystals, then the lower THC strain may be more potent because there were more crystals on the bud? If so, then a density of crystals value (the DOC value :)) would also be a good number to have, eh?

[Dutch Pimp]

wow...y'all like to split hairs

[CDS]

What exactly does the percentage THC mean? That in every crystal there is 18.57% THC and other various cannabinoids? If so, then is it possible that if one strain had, say, 12% THC, but had a lot of crystals, and another strain had 19% THC but not a lot of crystals, then the lower THC strain may be more potent because there were more crystals on the bud? If so, then a density of crystals value (the DOC value :)) would also be a good number to have, eh?

It means the percentage of THC in the raw product. For example, if you tested at 10%, you'd have one gram of THC in 10 grams of plant material. Hope that helps clarify.

[colagal]

It means the percentage of THC in the raw product. For example, if you tested at 10%, you'd have one gram of THC in 10 grams of plant material. Hope that helps clarify.

Yes. Thanks.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

PLEASE. just get honest friends.

[CDS]

Yes. Thanks.

You're welcome! If you ever need clean, strong meds for patients in between harvests, we offer $180 ounces at all four locations. Hope you had a great weekend, colagal.

[colagal]

You're welcome! If you ever need clean, strong meds for patients in between harvests, we offer $180 ounces at all four locations. Hope you had a great weekend, colagal.

Decent price. Is that the going rate out there on the front range?

[DenverRelief]

your same strain should yield similar results with resin content. What you control each time is taste, aroma, density, and weight.

I'd be curious about submissions of same strain over different grows to FSL. (or even same strain, same grow, different names for the sake of the test, to test the consistency of the lab)

Denver Relief worked with Westword to conduct just such a test.

Back on the strain gang: Putting MMJ tests to the test - Denver News - The Latest Word (http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/05/medical_marijuana_testing.php)

We found drastic inconsistencies between different labs.

We have had varied results for the same strain (as much as a 10% swing) tested at the same lab.

That said, testing is not only effective for determining the THC/CBD ratio, it is good to ensure that there is no problem mold or mildew in the product.

@Colagal
The analogy of the doctor not testing his meds is somewhat apt, except that marijuana has connoisseurs that are very discerning not just for harshness or strength, but appearance, flavor, scent, duration, and the many different ways that the medicine can effect you.

We work very hard to know the differences between the 14-20 house grown strains that we carry at any given time because the differences between them allow patients to find a strain that works for them.

Without using the medicine ourselves we could not share this specialized knowledge with our patients. It is our goal to help everyone find the right strain(s) for their condition so we must have a complete knowledge of the products that we carry.

[CDS]

Decent price. Is that the going rate out there on the front range?

I'd say it's on the lower end in terms of price for the quality, but I can only visit so many other shops. The lowest I've seen is in the $140-$160 range, unless you're talking about shake or trim. Then you're looking at $50 an ounce.

[ds0110]

To be a good grower no. You just need to know how to use the method you are using to its maximum potential. You have to learn what that strain likes and that doesnt require smoking. However there are a couple scenarios I can think of where smoking your own is time-saving/valuable. If you wanted to plant 20+ (40 non feminized) seeds of one strain in search of a mother..and you had specific traits in mind that had to do with the effects or flavor. Maybe you want the most potent one rather than the biggest one, longest lasting effects, etc. Each potential mother is different and to smoke is to fully experience them so that you can make the best informed decision. You could use qualified testers I suppose, but that takes time to field through ~20 individual females and sort through x amount of tester results, x being # of testers. This is even more important imo if you decide to breed. Sitting around smoking 20 different numbered jars of the same strain, trying to decide which mother lives, is a truly great day indeed. So in conclusion, imo, to be an expert grower, yeah, it helps a lot to smoke.

[colagal]

To be a good grower no. You just need to know how to use the method you are using to its maximum potential. You have to learn what that strain likes and that doesnt require smoking. However there are a couple scenarios I can think of where smoking your own is time-saving/valuable. If you wanted to plant 20+ (40 non feminized) seeds of one strain in search of a mother..and you had specific traits in mind that had to do with the effects or flavor. Maybe you want the most potent one rather than the biggest one, longest lasting effects, etc. Each potential mother is different and to smoke is to fully experience them so that you can make the best informed decision. You could use qualified testers I suppose, but that takes time to field through ~20 individual females and sort through x amount of tester results, x being # of testers. This is even more important imo if you decide to breed. Sitting around smoking 20 different numbered jars of the same strain, trying to decide which mother lives, is a truly great day indeed. So in conclusion, imo, to be an expert grower, yeah, it helps a lot to smoke.

I hear you, and we have bred a few strains which turned out to be good, at least, according to our testers (patients). Whether we are getting maximum potential is probably relative depending upon the person, since each person has their own idea of what is good and beneficial, not to mention the fact what is good and beneficial seems to change over time. This is certainly not an exact science which makes it a unique and interesting process....and inconsistent because of so many variables. If the testing labs were more readily available (and not so expensive), I would not mind periodically testing just to see how we are doing, according to the numbers anyway. Whether that translates into primo bud, is...relative.

[CDS]

I believe FSL is going to extend their free testing for patients/caregivers indefinitely, but double check with them.

[Purple Daddy]

Back in the late 80's my friends sister grew indoors with all the bells and whistles, her husband didn't smoke but did all the research and built a cutom grow room, metal halide, sodium vapor lights, ventelation, I think even CO2, the whole shebang.

They grew some beautiful looking plants and some very killer looking and smelling bud. Killer smelling and tasting bud that gave you absolutely NO buzz. There was virtually no THC on these buds I can only presume. I smoked half an 8th to my head and NOTHING. Now he didn't smoke but she did and how the end result was no stone but killer smelling/tasting is beyond me. They ended up taking a beating because nobody would buy it and for good reason. They divorced a year or so later and never tried growing again. Their utility bill went through the roof, in the end they lost a lot of money.

I doubt it had anything to do with him not smoking, the guy was pretty smart and went right by the book step by step. We just thought he got a batch of seeds from some kind of strain that didn't produce THC. He got them from Amsterdam via mail I do believe.

[colagal]

Purple Daddy - I guess the strain of growing was just too much for their relationship. Seriously, growing meds is no small matter especially on relationships, and I don't mean couples. Our experience in dispensaries (yes, we have grown for a few) has been a story of ego and too many chefs in the kitchen. You get a couple of growers together and invariably sparks will fly. No two seem to agree on the best way to grow.

[Purple Daddy]

Purple Daddy - I guess the strain of growing was just too much for their relationship. Seriously, growing meds is no small matter especially on relationships, and I don't mean couples. Our experience in dispensaries (yes, we have grown for a few) has been a story of ego and too many chefs in the kitchen. You get a couple of growers together and invariably sparks will fly. No two seem to agree on the best way to grow. >>>

I doubt the bad grow had anything to do with it, he got fired from a job and went on kind of a drinking binge. They were NOT compatable at that time, he was kind of a square peg and she was Farrah Fawcett beautiful and had been a screaming hot babe who was "fun" to party with.