Questions About Size/Amount of Light

[BuddyBea]

I am trying my first grow. I've done a lot of reading thus far and know I have a lot of continual learning to go - but I've yet to find a few definitive answers to the start-up questions I have. I don't want to waste space or light - nor have too little of each.

As I said I've done a lot of reading... writing, etc. I've also spoken to folks I know. I've manged to obtain 5 G-Bomb seeds, 11 homebrew Sour DiselxBubble Gum Seeds and 8 Blue Dream's. Yes I know I lucked out with all of those... kind friends. :)

However theres only so much time in the day and only so much you can ask people at once. Plus these folks have more invested in their setups than I can at the moment. I'm looking for about 10 plants a t a time. Maybe 5-8 to flower each month. From what I've seen florucent lighting is cheaper, even though it has it's restrictions I'm okay with it (for now). Length width, height - etc none of that are issues. :)

What would be reccomended for room sizes and lighting (in terms of wattage, etc) given my needs? I know what kind of bulbs I need, where to get them - the basics on how to keep my plants. But I've just a little dumb on getting my setup underway.

Hammer in hand!

Thanks.
Buddy!

[captainendoe]

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/140735-answers-about-cfl-hps-how-much-light.html

[captainendoe]

I can get 6 super cropped plants in a 5x5 area

[Purple Daddy]

Look for lumens vs wattage, the most lumens for the least wattage is your most economical way to go.

[khyberkitsune]

Look for lumens vs wattage, the most lumens for the least wattage is your most economical way to go.

By that logic everyone should buy low pressure sodium lights at 200+ lumens per watt versus the best HPS 150 or so.

But it doesn't work out like that, because LPS is almost pure orange/green and IR, and is in fact horrible for plants.

Lux won't help you out until you see some spectral output charts, then you can make meaningful comparisons and come to an informed decision, with our help.

Also, how big of an area are we talking about?

[BuddyBea]

I can get 6 super cropped plants in a 5x5 area

Thanks for the link and the info Captain!! I appreciate it.

I read that thread a while back when I first signed up - it's a great post. I just don't understand it completely. :( Although I do get a lot of it.

I know I need about 50w/ft2. However, then like the poster below says, "look for lumens vs wattage". I read that (I've seen it in other places so it's not an unfamilar piece of info), but that confuses me. For example on some websites I you seen T5 setups and they don't show the lamps total watt capability. But then if you look at actual shop florecents at Lowes or HD, it shows the max watts. If I know I need 50W per square, but I don't know how many watts the lamp can throw out - how can I pick a lamp.

I think a 5x5 or 6x6 would be a nice size. 6 plants wouldn't be too little for me, I'm only doing it for myself and to give to a friend and another friends father - both whom are fellow patients w/o anyone as caregivers.

What sort if lighting do you have if you don't mind me asking? Or what would you reccomend as far as T5?

[Dutch Pimp]

4 foot, High Output T5 lights are 54 watts each. They come in 2, 4, 6 and 8 bulb fixtures.

they are the favorite fluorescent lights...but, require plants be kept short and the lights close (SCROG)

Buying online is the best option. HID lighting is better...IF... you can control the heat.

whatever you choose...get a complete package (bulbs, fixture/reflector, cords, ballast)

[BuddyBea]

4 foot, High Output T5 lights are 54 watts each. They come in 2, 4, 6 and 8 bulb fixtures.

they are the favorite fluorescent lights...but, require plants be kept short and the lights close (SCROG)

Buying online is the best option. HID lighting is better...IF... you can control the heat.

whatever you choose...get a complete package (bulbs, fixture/reflector, cords, ballast)

DP,

Thanks for the great reply! I appreciate it.

I've seen the 2 and 4 light T5 fixtures online - never 6 or 8. I guess I haven't found all the right links yet! LOL I definently plan on getting a complete package, well hopefully, the majority I've seen online are - so that helps! Despite the fact that our state has not been mmj friendly for long, we do have a few local hydro shops, however I've never even been inside them. I plan to asap, just to browse at least. In general are they much more expensive than buying online? (I assume as far as lighting, online is best, for nutrients - etc, goto the shop.)

You mention keeping plants short/screen of green while using T5
I've seen the adjustable light fixtures. Having one I can raise or lower - will that help my plants get taller - assuming I actually keep up with it and don't end up lazy by my 2nd grow and leave it at mid height?

Also, if I am just providing medicine to myself, and two patients, one of which only takes about two hits a day (he's had a quarter now sinces fathers day). Myself I consume a pretty good amount. Am I thinking about too much with 10 plants and 5-8 flowering each month?

Thanks all!
Buddy

[Purple Daddy]

I'd try to keep it simple if you're on limited funds you can use a closet, $1 reflective window visors from dollar tree to cover your walls, a few pots, a big bag of potting soil, a timer, your lights and a fan and a box of miracle grow(to start with anyway) so your should be able to do this for under $100. As I've posted before a friend used a moving box wrapped in tin foil and about a half dozen round 22W flourescent lights and grew a few nice plants and didn't even notice a jump in his electric bill.

[Dutch Pimp]

Fluorescent Grow Light Fixtures | Quality Fluorescent Grow Lights at Discount Prices (http://www.accessdiscounts.com/grow-light-fluorescent-fixtures.html)

I do all my shopping here....:thumbsup:

[BuddyBea]

Fluorescent Grow Light Fixtures | Quality Fluorescent Grow Lights at Discount Prices (http://www.accessdiscounts.com/grow-light-fluorescent-fixtures.html)

I do all my shopping here....:thumbsup:

Thanks for the link DP! I checked it out quickly yesterday and it seems they have what I need and for quite more reasonable prices than what I saw at a different website.

As mentioned, I currently have some sprouts going - so I had to take action just to hedge my bet for the time being. Yesterday I went out and bought the best CFL I could find for vegging purpose. It's a 27W ("100 equivalent") 5500K, 14000 lumen 'True Color' bulb. I built a tiny, less than 2 sq. "bin" lined with white vinyl canvas I had laying around - just so I'm losing as little light as possible. The lamp droop's into the bin - however it (the bin) has no top, so I'm still losing light from above. That's okay for now, in my opinion.

I think I have 5 sprouts and then 1 plant thats a week and a half. The space seems okay for a short time, but the more and more reading I do, even for such tiny plants, I think I might need at least one more CFL until I build another enclosure. (Comments?)

I have no nutrients on hand... yet. However I do have a steady supply of fish pond water that is filtered through a homemade tri-layered sand filter at 2000 gph... Plus theres chicken grit as a ph buffer. ( Ie. this isn't disgusting water, personally if I was in an extreme bind, I'd drink from this water.) I presume this is a nutrient rich water supply, however I'm not sure how far it will go. I know it's not the best to start plants on a feeding schedule until a couple weeks old however I figured this was pretty natural water and I gave a tad to all of my kids last night. It seems like all responded well, all but one opened up tennie little leaves over night. :) Any opinions on that would be appreciated.

[jon420]

you can do 9 plants comfortably in a 7.5x4.5ft area with 1200 watts of CFL's. Not to mention, the plants can easily be 3-4ft tall before flower and your results will blow your mind. I love CFL's because they work very well (when spaced and used properly) and there's hardly ever a heat issue. Many people will disagree with me but trust me when I say, CFL's work great.

[BuddyBea]

you can do 9 plants comfortably in a 7.5x4.5ft area with 1200 watts of CFL's. Not to mention, the plants can easily be 3-4ft tall before flower and your results will blow your mind. I love CFL's because they work very well (when spaced and used properly) and there's hardly ever a heat issue. Many people will disagree with me but trust me when I say, CFL's work great.

Morning Jon,

Thanks for the reply my friend! Hmmm, 7.5x4.5... that seems like a reasonable space, however a bit larger than the 4x4 (by 5' tall) sketch I drew up today in my free time.

I was able to find a better cfl yesterday. It's made by GE and is 6500K, 1600 lumens, 26W (100 equivalent). Thats 1000K more than the "best" bulb I could find two days ago and I will tell you, even though 5/6 of my plants are less than a week old, you can tell they responded to the change in light intensity in just that short time! Currently though I just have the one light on. I read somewhere that you should use the same spectrum when you have multiple bulbs, so I didn't want to use the 5500K and the 6500K at once.

What do you use as far as sockets go? I bought a couple of those metal, clamp on 'work lamps' that they sell at HD/Lowes. Only thing is the actual socket piece is plastic (where as one you get at like a petstore for 2-3x the price is ceramic) seems like it gets a bit hot. Not sure if they are meant to run 24/7?

Also, anyone have any comments on using the koi pond water? I'm not a chemist, however I do know thats it's likely got a great deal of N. As thats one of the biggests chemical processes going on in the pond (the nitrite, nitrate, etc conversion process.) It's all dervied from well water though, which is then softened before hitting the pond. If any of that helps.

I'm on my way. Thanks for the help so far everyone.

[jon420]

Morning Jon,

Thanks for the reply my friend! Hmmm, 7.5x4.5... that seems like a reasonable space, however a bit larger than the 4x4 (by 5' tall) sketch I drew up today in my free time.

I was able to find a better cfl yesterday. It's made by GE and is 6500K, 1600 lumens, 26W (100 equivalent). Thats 1000K more than the "best" bulb I could find two days ago and I will tell you, even though 5/6 of my plants are less than a week old, you can tell they responded to the change in light intensity in just that short time! Currently though I just have the one light on. I read somewhere that you should use the same spectrum when you have multiple bulbs, so I didn't want to use the 5500K and the 6500K at once.

What do you use as far as sockets go? I bought a couple of those metal, clamp on 'work lamps' that they sell at HD/Lowes. Only thing is the actual socket piece is plastic (where as one you get at like a petstore for 2-3x the price is ceramic) seems like it gets a bit hot. Not sure if they are meant to run 24/7?

Also, anyone have any comments on using the koi pond water? I'm not a chemist, however I do know thats it's likely got a great deal of N. As thats one of the biggests chemical processes going on in the pond (the nitrite, nitrate, etc conversion process.) It's all dervied from well water though, which is then softened before hitting the pond. If any of that helps.

I'm on my way. Thanks for the help so far everyone.

As far as sockets go, I use exactly what you went and bought at HD/Lowes. I have not once had a heat issue and I use the big 55-watt 3800-lumen (actual wattage) CFL's as part of the lighting. I only run 18/6 light cycle too. I did run 24hrs for veg when I first started with CFL's but the 18/6 has paid off tremendously. When it comes to using different spectrums, I will highly recomend it when growing with CFL's. During veg I recomend 70%-80% 6500k spectrum over 2700k...During flower I recomend ADDING more 2700k lights to make it atleast 65% 2700k spectrum. You always want more light than you think when it comes to CFL's. Stick to the 2700K and 6500k CFL's and everything will turn out great. Keep them real close but no closer than an inch with the bigger CFL's, they do burn and growth will be atleast an inch daily once they start thriving.

[BuddyBea]

As far as sockets go, I use exactly what you went and bought at HD/Lowes. I have not once had a heat issue and I use the big 55-watt 3800-lumen (actual wattage) CFL's as part of the lighting. I only run 18/6 light cycle too. I did run 24hrs for veg when I first started with CFL's but the 18/6 has paid off tremendously. When it comes to using different spectrums, I will highly recomend it when growing with CFL's. During veg I recomend 70%-80% 6500k spectrum over 2700k...During flower I recomend ADDING more 2700k lights to make it atleast 65% 2700k spectrum. You always want more light than you think when it comes to CFL's. Stick to the 2700K and 6500k CFL's and everything will turn out great. Keep them real close but no closer than an inch with the bigger CFL's, they do burn and growth will be atleast an inch daily once they start thriving.

Thanks for the info Jon! I guess I'm doing okay for now - despite how much I think about it repeativly.

I did see one CFL (in the store) which was higher output than what I bought. It has a built in sensor for auto-on/off. I was thinking maybe you can fool the sensor by getting them to turn on and then if the lights in your garden never go out then the sensors wouldn't pay any role. I didn't want to waste the money though.

On a second note, you mentioned your 55W'ers (and I read your logs). I went and looked those up on 1000Bulbs. Do you know they have 105W CFL's now too in 6500K? So at 55W I would need 1 for about every sq. foot, but at 105W I'd really only need one bulb per 1-1.5 sq foot. So for every few sq feet I'd be saving a bulb/socket, etc. Throw in a couple 26W at the end for giggles and I think I would get a nice sun tan off of that setup. Does this sound logical? Those 105 watter's are quite expensive though and I'm fine with buying a small T5 setup. CFL is just the easiest to put together at the moment since I already have access to a load of high quality (bag) seed's and I'd like to start having some "fun".

Last night I took an old tv shelf. Roughly it's about 2.5 feet wide, 2 feet deep and 3 feet tall. I guess I should have measured it. :P Anyways, I took out all of the guts so it was just a shell, I painted the inside white and added a solid plywood door on the front. It took roughly an hour and I think this should buy me another month to get a better set up. It also beats the heck out of my open top white vinyl "bin" thingy. Word to the wise folks, don't get married - then you have to waste time making the crappy white bin while you convince your wife to let your hack up the old tv shelf. :)

Off to get a few more lights this morning. 3 should be good for now correct? That enclosure is less than 5 square, but the plants are in 8 or 10oz cups so they are sitting in less than a one square area. Bulbs aren't the issue, I am going to get a bunch - but I know the little mom and pop store I'm going to only has a couple bulb holders left.

Thanks again Jon.

[jon420]

Thanks for the info Jon! I guess I'm doing okay for now - despite how much I think about it repeativly.

I did see one CFL (in the store) which was higher output than what I bought. It has a built in sensor for auto-on/off. I was thinking maybe you can fool the sensor by getting them to turn on and then if the lights in your garden never go out then the sensors wouldn't pay any role. I didn't want to waste the money though.

On a second note, you mentioned your 55W'ers (and I read your logs). I went and looked those up on 1000Bulbs. Do you know they have 105W CFL's now too in 6500K? So at 55W I would need 1 for about every sq. foot, but at 105W I'd really only need one bulb per 1-1.5 sq foot. So for every few sq feet I'd be saving a bulb/socket, etc. Throw in a couple 26W at the end for giggles and I think I would get a nice sun tan off of that setup. Does this sound logical? Those 105 watter's are quite expensive though and I'm fine with buying a small T5 setup. CFL is just the easiest to put together at the moment since I already have access to a load of high quality (bag) seed's and I'd like to start having some "fun".

Last night I took an old tv shelf. Roughly it's about 2.5 feet wide, 2 feet deep and 3 feet tall. I guess I should have measured it. :P Anyways, I took out all of the guts so it was just a shell, I painted the inside white and added a solid plywood door on the front. It took roughly an hour and I think this should buy me another month to get a better set up. It also beats the heck out of my open top white vinyl "bin" thingy. Word to the wise folks, don't get married - then you have to waste time making the crappy white bin while you convince your wife to let your hack up the old tv shelf. :)

Off to get a few more lights this morning. 3 should be good for now correct? That enclosure is less than 5 square, but the plants are in 8 or 10oz cups so they are sitting in less than a one square area. Bulbs aren't the issue, I am going to get a bunch - but I know the little mom and pop store I'm going to only has a couple bulb holders left.

Thanks again Jon.

Always willing to help. I do know of the larger lights out there but I prefer to stay a little smaller so I can put the lights in tighter spots. The only disadvantage I've seen when using CFL's is they take a little longer (About 2-3weeks longer in veg and 1-2weeks longer in flower) but that is for my particular grow too. There is an upside though to taking longer. CFL's are able to be put very close to the plants which encourages growth not to stretch and helps the plants to really fill out nicely. The flowers are just as good, if not better in some cases up against HID lighting. Being that you are fairly new to growing, you will find that patience is the key to a strong grow. After that comes trial-n-error. Once you feel that you have your grow environment and technique under control, you will then seek different ways to produce more and faster, alot of people do and it can be fun trying new ways to grow. Keep us updated.