Small Necrosis on young plants

[Lawladash]

I'm not sure why, but I'm getting some brown spots and yellowing on my young plants.

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) I've done an outdoor grow and an indoor, so still learning.

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) 1000W MH and 3 T8
.2) Distance from tops? MH is almost 2 feet and the florescents are about a foot
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) Bat wing on the MH and just a regular shop light for the T8s
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Yes
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? I have an exhaust fan and a portable AC for my circulation fan.
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? MH is 1000w and the T8s are 32W(I believe) and schedule is on 7am to 1am

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) Fox Farm Ocean Forrest, nothing added.
.8) Size of container. They're small containers, not 100% sure.
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? No

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? Tap, ~7.2
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) Pool PH/Chlorine test kit.
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) I don't think that I need to adjust the PH(Should I?)
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. I'm using Earth Juice Grow, Catalyst, and Bloom. Grow is 1 TBSP, the others are 1 TSP per Gal. Feeding schedule was every other, but now It's about twice a week.
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? I'm watering every day, so about 2-3 times between feedings
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) None.
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? I've only periodically tested my PH, and it's been consistent within a .2 range.
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? Ingoing is ~7.2, I don't know about the runoff.
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? I don't.

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Kind of a hybrid, it's in a shed.
20) What size of closet, room or hut? 10x10
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? Temps stay around 78-82, and around 45-50% humidity.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? I did in my last crop, however before starting these new ones I scrubbed the room down with organic insecticides

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) I'm not sure about the blend, however, it is a Northern Lights strand.
24) From seeds or clones? Seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? No it isn't.

I had multiple problems with the first go around which lead to just under 3 ounces for 10 plants, so I'm really, I mean REALLY looking to avoid that again in this one. I've got 16 plants going in this one, however the 16th is a random seed found out of a bag.

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[Purple Daddy]

Have you checked for mites or any other critters?

[Lawladash]

I've used Neem concentrate about once a month even without seeing anything and if I do see any kind of signs I usually spritz them once every few days or so until the signs are gone. So I don't think it's bugs, but I will spritz them next time I'm out there a little later today.

[Purple Daddy]

I think you're over feeding and over watering them. I'd let them go a day without anything then start flushing your soil for about a full day multiple times then let them dry out, just use water and maybe superthrive for about a week and see how they respond.

Honestly? Keep it simple, I'm not exprienced with some of these exotic nutrients people are using and the schedules they are following, had a friend using the foxfarm schedule and she had all kinds of problems.

I'd suggest after flushing to go very, very light on nutrients at first, maybe 50% of what you were using and see what results you get. I wouldn't use full strength until they are larger and looking healthy. The old growth will not repair itself so watching it for improvement won't help, keep an eye on the new growth and leaves near the top of the plant. I sometimes trim off all the damaged leaves so it's easier to tell if any of the other undamaged leaves are having symptoms. I'm hardly an expert and have had to learn from mistakes due to either impatience or inexperience. It's not as easy as dropping a seed in the bucket and watering it but it's not much more complicated either. I just think people(including myself) tend to over think the process and that may cause more problems then solutions.

[Lawladash]

Ok, I'll give it a shot. You'll have to excuse my lack of knowledge with all of these terms, but what is flushing and what's the best way to do it? Does it differ if I'm using soil? Any additional information is always welcomed. Also, thank you for your quick responses and input, it is greatly appreciated.

[cigarettes42]

i find it funny that everyone has failed on reading this guys trouble shooting form and just threw out answers and suggestions. from what ive read not checking your in/out ph is making your soil out of whack!!! when you add nutes to soil with a bad ph it will cause the roots not to absorb any nutes and when you try to correct it, it will burn the damn plant. 7.2 is a very high ph of water going in. i bet you get like an 8.5 runoff. i feel you should flush with ph corrected water and correct your soil ph before doing anything.

[Lawladash]

The hydro shop near my house isn't open on Sundays, is it detrimental that I get this done today, or can it wait until Wednesday when I have a day off work? If it can't, what can I get at a local Wal-mart or Home Depot that will give me my desired PH level? I'm almost certain that I can't use the same PH adjusters that are used in a pool. Yet again thank you for your input and suggestions.

[Lawladash]

Ok, after looking at my local Home Depot's website, I see the meter and PH down I want to use, how do I lower the PH in the soil? Will it automatically adjust with the corrected water? Quick replies are appreciated as I'm about to go down to the store here soon.

Edit: I'm going to pick up some Blood Meal, I've read that this will do the trick for what I need.

[LetsSeeYa]

I am using the E&J too and had to step up the dose. Its my first run with it and im not to happy with it. I believe it lacks in Nitrogen as i hit them with a small dose of some all purpose crap and they greened up and now look nice and perky. But i will not use it again, but iv upped the grow with the E&J and kept the bloom the same. They really looked better faster then i thought they would, but of course the N shows fast IMO anyway. But my point is they much better now and new growth is kicking out nice.

I have heard the E&J lacks N, but not till i bought the line. Here is a different schedule i found that these people really like and works for them, but its on you if you use it. Man i will get it later, i cant find it, but it will be tonight.



LSY

[Lawladash]

Just got back from a trip down to Home Depot and Wal-Mart. Got some Miracle Grow Blood Meal, which is a Nitrogen supplement. So hopefully this will alleviate all of my babies' ailments. I'll post some pics in a couple of days either if they persist with their problems or get better. Hoping for the latter!

[Lawladash]

Well, after a trip to Petco, Petsupermarket, Petsmart and Wal-Mart again, I've yet to find a pH tester that can get down to 5.0. I know I don't need it to go down that low, but the lowest I've seen is 6.8, which is still too high! Any suggestions on things that will be open at this time on a Sunday?

[Lawladash]

After finally finding a pH meter that will go far enough into the acids, I've got my water down in the low 6's, somewhere around 6.2-6.4. I feel this is a good level for them to be at. I also picked up some Blood Meal to help with the soil pH, so I'm slowly adding that in to get that down and the Nitrogen in it helps with the recovery. The flush went well and will be posting some new pictures tomorrow after I get home and get everything taken care of. I just wanted to thank everyone again for your timely and much appreciated responses.

[Treez81]

No doubt ph needs to be around 6.5 but u should only have to water every three days or so. Cannabis likes when u let the soil get dry between watering. If u have to water every day then it is time to use a bigger pot. I've also heard of some peoples tap water being unsuitable for growing cannabis.

[Lawladash]

I'll keep that in mind, I'm still in the learning stages. Trying different things out, finding out what doesn't work and what does. Reading these forums, watching videos and listening to others who have experience has helped me avoid what I have seen as huge mistakes. However, with that being said, it doesn't make me immune to those said mistakes :P

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

i find it funny that everyone has failed on reading this guys trouble shooting form and just threw out answers and suggestions. from what ive read not checking your in/out ph is making your soil out of whack!!! when you add nutes to soil with a bad ph it will cause the roots not to absorb any nutes and when you try to correct it, it will burn the damn plant. 7.2 is a very high ph of water going in. i bet you get like an 8.5 runoff. i feel you should flush with ph corrected water and correct your soil ph before doing anything.

yep:thumbsup: not to mention newbs shouldnt try getting all the fad lines that promise huge sticky yields when they really just need to keep it simple and branch out from there.

[Lawladash]

I wasn't really dragged in by promises of 1 pound per plant or anything extravagant like that. I just went for just organic as I've been told it was the best for my set up. I have gone and flushed my plants and got some pH adjusting material for my soil. Gonna add it in slowly over a week or so, as to not shock the plants.

[Rusty Trichome]

I think you're over feeding and over watering them. I'd let them go a day without anything then start flushing your soil for about a full day multiple times then let them dry out, just use water and maybe superthrive for about a week and see how they respond.
I agree with the overwatering and overfeeding, but personally...I'd ditch the Superthrive. Having a wife that's a cancer patient, I would prefer not to use "mystery crap" and "snake oils" on the plants. Drug interractions are a real potential I'd rather avoid. (hormones, steroids, hemmorhoids...)


Honestly? Keep it simple, I'm not exprienced with some of these exotic nutrients people are using and the schedules they are following, had a friend using the foxfarm schedule and she had all kinds of problems.
If she was folowing the online schedule, then she followed it wrong. FF is a solid nutrient, and the scheule is solid as well. Instructions on the bottle used to be for use as a stand-alone product. (not as a trio) But there is no need for additional nutrients for the first month in FFOF. If you recently transplanted into a larger container of FFOF, you've got fresh nutrients availabe to the plant, and feeding is still virtually unnecessary for an additional couple of weeks.

Old leaves are old news. They won't heal, so keep an eye on the new growth.

[jon420]

I've seen the same problems before and you should be fine after a couple weeks of a set watering schedule and PROPER PH, since that looks like the main issue. I'd have to agree too that you may be over-feeding and over-watering but you will find that your plants will be able to take more water and nutes once they start to consume it all with proper PH. Be sure to check the run-off PH any time you feel something is wrong and it's good to check it frequently anyways. During veg your soil PH will remain close to the same usually (mine always does but depends on soil mix too) but when you get into flower you will want to pay closer attention to the run-off because there could be a decent drop in PH and that can really lead to many other problems and a smaller yeild. Keep us posted!!!

[Lawladash]

Will do, I'm gonna go out there later today and take some pictures and upload them. I've been putting some blood meal in the soil and watering it down with adjusted water, so hopefully that will lower the soil pH. Gonna check the run off on Sat which is the next watering day. Also, what online schedule for nutes? I haven't done much research, but I will start. If someone could give me a starting point it would be much appreciated. Also, thank you for your responses yet again.

[Lawladash]

Well, after visiting my beauties, I've noticed the watering every 3 days dries them out past where they like. I watered tonight and snipped more damaged leaves. I've yet to start ferting again, since I don't want to put them through any more shock then they already are in. I don't think that I flushed them well enough. Gonna do it again this weekend. I'm thinking flush, wait an hour, flush, wait an hour and flush for the last time. Any thoughts? I'm attaching pictures of my babies, the last one will show one that was REALLY thirsty. I also added more blood meal into the soil before watering in attempts to get my soil pH down. However, while writing this, I realize that it wasn't the best idea considering I'll be flushing soon. Anywho, here's what I know you want to see. Any comments on what you can see from the pictures on what you think I should do would be appreciated. Lastly, would it be wise to top a second time, or is once the primo number? Is it more of my prefference? If so, what does everyone think about it. Sorry about the wall of text, just so excited about the whole process, I love this hobby.




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[Lawladash]

I guess the limit is 5? Either that or I just genuinely screwed that one up :P Either way, here is the thirsty Gal.



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[MEDEDCANNABIS]

No doubt ph needs to be around 6.5 but u should only have to water every three days or so. Cannabis likes when u let the soil get dry between watering. If u have to water every day then it is time to use a bigger pot. I've also heard of some peoples tap water being unsuitable for growing cannabis.

yeah, i remember a story where tap water catches on fire if you put a lighter to it. the stickey of the ickey. put that water in your bong. BOOM! the ultimate bong hit! for law...yes those pots look small, time to transplant. ph needs to be better(6.5 runoff or close to it.) the stems are purple and woody which would suggest N def and overall not healthy. take clones for sure. use basic nutes for now. veg and bloom dont get fancy and then add in from there. good luck:thumbsup: i gotta go hump the miss so later:thumbsup::D:D:D:D:D

[Lawladash]

I'm going to flush tomorrow to make sure that I get all of those salts and other junk out of there. I've been using Blood Meal which is an organic source of Nitrogen, but I also haven't been ferting 'till I make sure I won't be stressing the girlies. Not going to take any clones, gonna be moving by the beginning of the year, so I don't want to transport anything. However, I think when I get set up in my new place, I'm gonna look into cloning and what not. Also, next time I water after the flush I'm going to test my run off, see where that's at. Hopefully in the low-mid 6's. Yet again, thank you for all of the input and suggestions.

P.S. I remember someone saying something about a feeding schedule, I think I'll look into that tomorrow.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

[quote=Lawladash]I'm going to flush tomorrow to make sure that I get all of those salts and other junk out of there. I've been using Blood Meal which is an organic source of Nitrogen, but I also haven't been ferting 'till I make sure I won't be stressing the girlies. Not going to take any clones, gonna be moving by the beginning of the year, so I don't want to transport anything. However, I think when I get set up in my new place, I'm gonna look into cloning and what not. Also, next time I water after the flush I'm going to test my run off, see where that's at. Hopefully in the low-mid 6's. Yet again, thank you for all of the input and suggestions.

P.S. I remember someone saying something about a feeding schedule, I think I'll look into that tomorrow.[/QUOT
cool, just keep it basic until you know how the nutes will affect your garden then add in new product. pure blend and fox farms has good products just dont buy the whole line. veg and bloom formula should be fine for now.

[Lawladash]

Well, I finally got done flushing. I had no idea I had to use so much water, almost 32 gallons! I think the reason I was still seeing the problems was because I didn't flush enough and I just re-activated the nutes that were still there. Monday the bags I ordered will be here and I can start the transplanting process. Gonna have to buy almost $200 in soil for all my darlings, it'll be worth it though. Gonna check out some different nutes at that point too, give them more of a basic regiment. I'll take a picture next weekend after I've got them transplanted and they're looking happy. Can't wait! I can't stress enough how much all of your input and advice have helped me through this process, I truly do appreciate everything.

[Lawladash]

Well, after washing my beauties, I've noticed even more necrosis where there weren't any before. Is this normal and it's just because I didn't flush earlier? Did I just not do something right, or not do something at all? These aren't new growths, but like I said before, it wasn't there before. I'm going to be transplanting tomorrow into some bigger fiber bags. Gonna do some reading on what I should put into the soil in order to avoid any future problems. Any suggestions that you've found to really help a soil grow would be much appreciated. I'm going to attach the pictures I just took.



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[Lawladash]

Not even sure if people read this anymore, seems to be a dead time right now with posts. Either way, for those who have been helping me, I transplanted into 5 gallon fiber bags with a mix of FFOF and some Pro-Mix to help with drainage. Picked up a new pH meter and geez! I think I found my problem, the pH went from being too high, to being too low! It was sitting at around 5.2! Either way, I've got a better pH meter and now can accurately test my pH and make sure that everything is good. It's an electronic one so I'll even be able to test my pH with my fert and the run off. Yet again, I would like to thank everyone who has put in their input and has taken time out of their busy schedule to help a newbie grower.

[Rusty Trichome]

Not even sure if people read this anymore, seems to be a dead time right now with posts.
Mods, management and server issues have driven most of the experienced gardeners away, and the rest seem to be more concerned with informing us that they need to bust a nut with their old lady. IMHO, this epitomizes the waning focus of this web site and it's leadership. Since the leadership here would rather ban senior members for speaking-out rather than actually addressing the issues, it's only gotten worse.

Are you refering to a soil probe, or a ph pen? (big difference in accuracy and reliability)

The 'organic' and 'natural' nutrients in the FFOF should last about a month. Don't screw it up by ammending it. FFOF should be buffered to within 6.3 to 6.8 ph. If memory serves me, Pro Mix is buffered waaaay low for indoor soil grows. Mixing the two will alter (overwhelm) the buffering capabilities of the FFOF. (ph will dive)

Are you following the bottle directions, or is there an online schedule you're following? Reason I ask, is that some nutrient companies label the bottles as if it were a stand-alone product. (in case you don't use the rest of their products) Following bottle directions under those circumstances can lead to severe ph swings, overfertilizing, lockouts...I'd check online for the weekly feeding instructions.

You can develop serious issues if feeding with every other watering. What happens when you go through a dry spell and have to water daily? (severe overdose) What happens during the humid season, when the soil is too moist to water/feed your plants as usual? (severe underfeeding) In my experience, picking one or two watering days a week is best. For instance, the weekly feeding schedule for Fox Farms Grow Big is 2 tsp per gallon of properly ph'd water, once a week. But I feed 1 teaspoon per gallon of properly ph'd water, twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays. (same weekly quantity, but split between two feeding days) This way, if need be I can water less on non-feeding days, and can use as much or as many watering days as necessary to fill the gap. (if needed...don't water just for the sake of watering)

Any of that make sence?

[BUDEZZ]

What nutes are you useing?? looks like to much pk to me buddy !

[Lawladash]

Hope you don't mind, but I'm going to break your questions down so I can answer all of them.

I'm currently using a pH pen for my water. Milwaukee Instruments - Manufacturers of quality instruments for measuring pH, EC, TDS, ORP, Dissolved Oxygen meters and testers (http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/economical_testers.html) That's the one I'm using now and love it.
Sadly, this is the soil pH meter that I'm using and I've noticed that it really doesn't move at all when I use it for pH. HoldAll Moisture, Light and pH Meter - 6004BC at The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100325514/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

Would I be able to use the pen for my soil? I didn't think so, but hopefully I'm wrong.

When I did my mix, I put in ~2/3 FFOF to 1/3 ProMix, will that throw it off that much? If so, what can I do to remedy the situation?


I was following the directions on the bottle, I've been looking around for a good feeding schedule, but I'll have to keep snooping.

As of the last few weeks I haven't been ferting due to the shock they've been going through, but when I did I started out at every other day, then backed it off to once a week once I started seeing problems as I've heard of people over nuting during these times and making things worse. I do see your point in over doing it when I had to go "hard" on days where it got hot and had to water more frequently, and less frequently.

I understood your post after reading it a few times and getting all the juicy information out of it. Also, I'm sad to hear about all the "pros" leaving, I joined this community in hopes of gather a vast wealth of knowledge. Reading earlier posts I thought that's exactly what I was going to get, however, I'm noticing that a lot of that knowledge has fled elsewhere. I'm gonna stay here, but I'm going to also look in other forums/communities for either some of the old timers, or some "new" old timers.

Like always, thank you so much for all of your input. Especially you Rusty, rather than just saying "Hey, your plants look bad, fix it." You actually took the time to read my problems and figure out the possible causes and list them all. This community needs more people like you to come back and be active!


Edit: When I said Pro Mix, I mean the Pro Mix HP, I don't know if that makes any kind of difference.

[Dutch Pimp]

next time...try something other than pro-mix soil...I never heard anything good about it..IMO.

[Lawladash]

I guess that's part of the process of learning. You make mistakes and you have to recover from them. I will know next time not to get that line and just stick with Ocean Forest. Well, I'm out for the night, thank you all for the input, once again.

[Lawladash]

Just a few updates, I believe it's the first picture that I have a question about. The coloring on the leaves has me a bit concerned. Any input is greatly appreciated.







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