LEGALLY INVASIVE PRE-EMPLOYMENT DRUG SCREEN??

[Looker]

I have an interview for a good job in my field this week..also have a buddy working in there already...it's a hi tech manufacturing job and it came up short notice..

I know I'll have to take a urine test..I smoke regularly so I always sub on these tests without a problem..done it 4 or 5 times before. I use the Urinator and synthetic urine..

The buddy tells me when you go to the testing facility you have to drop your pants to the knees(like they check for devices) and GET THIS..he had a nurse stand behind him in the doorway while he did his sample..(my buddy is a very light smoker if at all so he passed cause he's clean) It's sort of like a cross between DOT and some other test. This is in Massachusetts BTW

Some things here do not sound right ..I understood that you can't be observed for pre-employment, only for reasonable cause/probation..gonna be hard to use the Urinator on this one but I'm working on it..

Anybody familiar with this scenario??

[Burnt Toast]

Sounds like your buddy is trying to scare you. If what you described did indeed happen to your buddy, he shouldve got a lawyer and went after the collection facility. They cannot legally make you drop your drawers to check for any cheating contraband unless you had been suspected of tampering or intent to tamper. If no intent to tamper is suspected, they can only have you remove jackets, hats and emptying of your pockets. This is clearly outlined in the DOT regulations as well as DHHS regulations.

[RIPBRB]

Okay so if your really worried about getting the pants dropped or someone standing behind you, use the condom. I just recently used this, read this http://boards.cannabis.com/drug-testing/1146-substitution-tips-tricks-guidelines.html and it saved my life for a pre employment drug test. I could of easily emptied the condom and made it sound like i was pissing by slowing squeezing the sub urine into the cup.

[SampsonSimpsonZ]

I had a nurse stand behind me for one of my test (Health Clinic). Would not being able to go on the spot make you a 'suspect' for tampering? It was a random U/A and I woke up and used the restroom like everyone else, so when we got test first thing at work I didnt need to go. I sat there in front of them and drank water for about 30-45min. Then when I was ready they followed me in and stand at the door.

Then for another job I was tested at a Hospital and the nurse did not go into the bathroom with me.

[Burnt Toast]

Would not being able to go on the spot make you a 'suspect' for tampering? No. Not everyone can pee on the spot and on command. The collector has to adhere to "shy bladder" procedures by allowing you to sit in the lobby and drink water over a 3 hour period or until the donor can produce a sufficent amount of sample whichever comes first. The collector cannot have the donor exceed 16 oz of water per hour over this 3 hour period.

[Looker]

I guess things have changed since I took my last pre employment UA in 2009..Back then you went in the bathroom and closed the door and that was it...Burnt Toast I tend to agree with you about my buddy not sure what's going on...the other thing is my buddy LOOKS suspicious (Asian gangster with lots of tats, muscles and earrings...) me I look like a schoolteacher (male) maybe thats why I slide through...no offense to anyone I know thats unfair...

It's just a pre employment UA screen...but he really threw me when he described this....gonna be hard to sub with Urinator if gotta drop my drawers for inspection...

BTW this is ALL great info thats why I love this board..

[killerweed420]

I have an interview for a good job in my field this week..also have a buddy working in there already...it's a hi tech manufacturing job and it came up short notice..

I know I'll have to take a urine test..I smoke regularly so I always sub on these tests without a problem..done it 4 or 5 times before. I use the Urinator and synthetic urine..

The buddy tells me when you go to the testing facility you have to drop your pants to the knees(like they check for devices) and GET THIS..he had a nurse stand behind him in the doorway while he did his sample..(my buddy is a very light smoker if at all so he passed cause he's clean) It's sort of like a cross between DOT and some other test. This is in Massachusetts BTW

Some things here do not sound right ..I understood that you can't be observed for pre-employment, only for reasonable cause/probation..gonna be hard to use the Urinator on this one but I'm working on it..

Anybody familiar with this scenario??

They can not watch while you pee unless they have reasonable suspicion that you're cheating. If someone tries to watch tell them you have a shy bladder. If they still want to watch tell them you can't with someone watching and walk out. You can file grievance with your states labor and industries department. Explain the circumstances and they will go check it out and if the company is not following procedures the labor and industries will lay down the facts of life to them. If you can afford to hire an attorney and sue, do that too but wait for the L&I to get through with there investigation.

[Looker]

Well , that's all great and YES I could do that but it's for a job so the last thing I would do was to make a stink about that at that point..be just better to walk away and try again in 2 months straight n clean..but time waits for no one so this is what I'm gonna do..

WEAR JOCKEY POUCH UNDERWEAR!!! Dudes..it's got a pouch up front where you can actually get a Urinator in there..or a 4 oz bottle with hot hands..already practiced should work..so if they get cute I will pull my pants and underwear down! nobody's ever gonna see it...IF THEY WANT THE UNDERWEAR AND PANTS DOWN SEPARATELY THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO PAY ME EXTRA FOR IT...I DONT DO THOSE KIND OF LAPDANCES FOR FREE...

Y'know I think I may just get through this....

Once again thanks for the posts...

[Looker]

Sounds like your buddy is trying to scare you. If what you described did indeed happen to your buddy, he shouldve got a lawyer and went after the collection facility. They cannot legally make you drop your drawers to check for any cheating contraband unless you had been suspected of tampering or intent to tamper. If no intent to tamper is suspected, they can only have you remove jackets, hats and emptying of your pockets. This is clearly outlined in the DOT regulations as well as DHHS regulations.

Could you perhaps clarify a bit why they might suspect a person of tampering? Thanks...

[Looker]

One other thing my "buddy" told me about the test...he said they let you know the results right away....first I heard of this...but I guess they found a way to save money so they are doing that now too..sorry don't know the name of the facility or service..

Burnt Toast the more I think about it the more I think you are right about my buddy....there is a possibilty he's trying to scare me..either to be cautious or because he really does not want to see me at that company...long story behind that about trust and the like..

[Burnt Toast]

Could you perhaps clarify a bit why they might suspect a person of tampering? Thanks...

Because a person had given them reasons to suspect tampering. A few reasons:

- A person was observed bringing in "cheating contraband" via a shirt pocket, or any other means observed in plain view.

- A person exhibits behavior that indicates intent to tamper

- A person who had been instructed to wash and dry hands and refuses to cooperate; or if a person was instructed to remove excess outer clothing ( hats, jackets, coveralls) and emptying pockets, and refuses to cooperate (in which the collector is then required by the Regulations to stop the collection process and declare a "refusal to test")

- A person who had submitted a urine sample with a temperature thats outside the acceptable range of 90-100F

Instances like this are NOT cause for reasonable suspicion:

my buddy LOOKS suspicious (Asian gangster with lots of tats, muscles and earrings...) You be surprised of the large number of blue-collar workers that face random testing who have tatoos, body jewelry and an impressive physique.
The facility personnel cannot profile and single out donors simply because they dont look like school teachers, doctors, stockbrokers or lawyers.

[Looker]

Yes.. I see..Burnt Toast thanks for this...you are awesome.....you can't imagine how HELPFUL all this has been....for the replies on a very JADED subject....this board is a JOB within itself for you......wow..

Thanks Again...

[Looker]

Well..went for the interview but that's as far as it went..that was over a week ago....no offer or drug test paperwork...it still might happen ..and if it does..going to have to take my chances with the urinator and synthetic..like I said before done this 4 times myself..and passed ..lent it to a friend and He passed with it...just hope they don't suspect me of subbing...never have before...

As much as I like to smoke...may have to put it down for like 60-90 days ...I mean I'm gonna have to sub if this one mentioned above becomes an offer...would not be worried about subbing but when someone I THOUGHT I could trust tells me about like a near strip search for a pre-employment drug screen,you can imagine my apprehension...but now I am wondering if that person was telling me the whole story...

But, all of you have given good advice...that's why I love this board...

[Looker]

Well..got a job for pretty good money without a drug test any way...very small company ...worked for them B4 w/o drug test so...Im Blazin..

[Looker]

So my advice is..look for smaller companies that dont test I guess..