Looking for input on Predator Mites

[AllenScott]

I have been at war with two-spotted spider mites for quite some time.

My former location was quite hot and humid and management wasn't too tough: mildy soapy water spray kept them in check.

My newer location in the Eastern Foothills runs quite hot and dry outside. I work pretty hard to keep the humidity up around 50% in 80 degree air inside the rooms. I have pretty large spaces I'm working in and don't have the ability to empty the rooms and sterilize. The veg and flower rooms are separated but impossible to isolate from the outside environment. I do recycle dirt after a massive flushing and respiking regime.

I have tried soapy water, ladybugs, pyrethrum, neem, Azamax, garlic, pepper spray, misting, etc. These attempts were made at proper intervals to get the various stages of mite life.

Lately I've been spraying Azamax at 5 day intervals while vegging and just prior to entering flower. This seems to keep the bastards in check but I don't want to spray the flowering plants so about a month into flower I'm hand plucking infested leaves into water buckets and washing them down the drain. This is not only tedious due to the number of plants but it can't be good for yield to remove so much leaf at that time.

I think the mites are entering from outside or interior hiding places and finding the older flowering plants to be free enough from Azamax to set up shop.

So I come to the Predator Mite attempt next I think. Has anyone used these? What variety? Effective?

Thanks in advance for input and tips.

Allen

[Zedleppelin]

Predators will work just like everything else you've tried, they may keep them at bay but they won't get rid of them. Only thing that will work is Avid and/or Floramite but not to be used in flower.

[CanGroIt]

Just curios.....did you use store bought ladybugs or did you go out and catch wild ones?

I've also heard that dryer sheets work pretty well. Something about the fragrance that bugs dislike.... I haven't seen any bugs in my grow space since placing the dryer sheets so I really don't know if they work but I haven't seen a bug since....

CGI::::::

[AllenScott]

Predators will work just like everything else you've tried, they may keep them at bay but they won't get rid of them. Only thing that will work is Avid and/or Floramite but not to be used in flower.

Thanks Zed. I've been looking into those products and though they say they are not to be used on food crops I think they will break down in time to be harmless if not used in flower. It seems there is an issue of tollerance to these developing in mites. Bummer.

I think I'll give the growers Azamax as I am (apparently mites can't develop imunity to this) and place predators in the flower room. We shall see.

[AllenScott]

Just curios.....did you use store bought ladybugs or did you go out and catch wild ones?

I've also heard that dryer sheets work pretty well. Something about the fragrance that bugs dislike.... I haven't seen any bugs in my grow space since placing the dryer sheets so I really don't know if they work but I haven't seen a bug since....

CGI::::::

I have heard that as well CGI. I know they keep the mice out of the boat and cabin in the winter. I have heard the smell from the sheets can get into the buds. A buddy wrapped a bag in them for travel and they sure did transfer smell. How long have you been using them?

As to the lady bugs, I bought them. Thousands and thousands of them. They seemed much more interested in suicide by HID light than eating mites and I could not bear walking on them and killing them as they are my favorite bug.

[BuddyBea]

Good Morning Allen,

While I've never grown anything my self, literally... I've cared for a house plant or two, but I don't even have so much as a cut daisy in a vase currently. :) I can offer a bit of insight on predatory mites. I'm not sure of the experience ZedL has, simply looking at his post count and reading his advice on (I assume) chemical control, it seems he's been around the block once or twice - however I'd have to disagree with his overall statement.

I have a long background working with invertebrates, particulalry those from tropic and sub-tropic regions. Naturally, and even more in captivity, mites are an issue for any animal (and plant as you've discovered) that require warm, humid enviroments. Trying to physically erridicate them is impossible as they piggy back everything. I've boiled and baked substrate/bleached containers, only to see mites appears at the first given oppurtunity.

What you can do however is two things. One, as I mentioned above... keep everything as clean as possible. The second, as your on to, is treatment with predatory mites.

My first line of defense if I were you is as soon as possible, try to plan a way to change out as much of the substrate from your room as you can. Obviously its hard becuase there is plants growing in them. But if you replace a couple pots, the ones you don't replace will just infect the ones you are, quickly. This assumes your using soil and it's all open. If not, which ever way you could go about cleaning your media would the next best - I have no experience in that area. The object is to remove as many of the current mites, and (most important) as much of the current dead/decaying matter from your room. Thats what the mites are truley after.

Next, as I mentioned - heat and humidity are a mites best friend. While you need them in your 'room', controlling both (especially humidity) to a T will significantly reduce your mite infestation. Depending on how much your plants can take it, drying out your room for even a couple days does a lot to a mite population.

Last, as I mentioned - predatory mites are used quite extensively in the world on invertebrate study. Why? Because mites on an animal and mites on a plant are much different pests. Physically, mites which use animals as hosts, adhere to the animal. It's physically impossible to remove them and those which are on the animal iteself will not die as they benefit from moisture exchange. Now predatory mites do their job and do them quite well. I've seen cases where invertebrates, close to death from mite infestations, have become mite free and made full recoverys simply from the use of predatory mites. Personally, our favorite was the mite 'H. miles' as it was quite large and could eat nearly any other mite it crossed. However, I did cross reference an old site of mine and saw the mite 'P. persimilis' which is said to be an excellent mite for controlling spider mites.

I have a bit more info if your interested but thats the bulk of my personal experiences summed up.

Take care,
Buddy

[CanGroIt]

How long have you been using them? Been using them for about six months now. Have 4 sheets in my veg cab and 8 in the flower cab. Change them out each month and haven't had any bug probs since....

As to the lady bugs, I bought them. Thousands and thousands of them.....

I bought them once too and found out just like you that they really don't work and make more of a mess than anything.... Soon after the store bought ones failed, I went out to a grassy area and was able to catch some wild ones. The wild ones took care of a past spider mite prob. The store bought ones have food avaialbe to them from day 1 where wild lady bugs have to walk around on plants and hunt for food....

CGI::::::

[AllenScott]

I bought them once too and found out just like you that they really don't work and make more of a mess than anything.... Soon after the store bought ones failed, I went out to a grassy area and was able to catch some wild ones. The wild ones took care of a past spider mite prob. The store bought ones have food avaialbe to them from day 1 where wild lady bugs have to walk around on plants and hunt for food....

CGI::::::



The hunting from the start makes a lot of sense on wild lady bugs. I believe there are some seasonal factors as well that influence their hunger. I may try the dryer sheet trick and see what happens. I'll watch, and smell, closely as I do worry a bit about smell moving to the plants. I'm hyper dedicated to clean medicine and don't want to contaminate any of it. Peace.

[AllenScott]

That is a lot of info BuddyBea. I wonder if we are talking about the same type of spider mites? All I have read seems to say the one's we have the most issues with in our medical gardens in Eastern Co, the two-spotted spider mite, prefers hot and dry conditions and live vegitation.

[Zedleppelin]

Every person I've known that has gotten mites all went the same route. First they tried non-harsh or organic methods like Pyrethrum, Neem Oil, spraying off the plants daily, predators, etc etc etc. And every one ended up using Floramite or Avid because all that other shit doesnt work, unfortunately it takes them many months and lost product to figure it out. Yes all that stuff will kill mites, but they do not kill the eggs, and since they reproduce at such a fast rate there lies the problem. You can kill off every mite you have but most of those mites have left eggs behind and they will all hatch at different rates. Miss one mite and the whole problem starts again and you're back at square one. I don't think anyone likes using Avid but everyone I know that has used it did it because they ran out of options. One or two applications and they are gone for good.

[AllenScott]

I do understand what you are saying Zed. Have you heard anything about mites getting immune to Floramite and Avid? I ask because I read, I think in a CU paper, that this is becoming an issue. The recommendation was to rotate the active ingredients.

I would guess that unless a grower has a sealed room and an air lock to change clothes in the little bastards will return as the chemicals break down. If flower time is nine weeks and chems break down in four to five and mites return maybe some predators sprinkled in will keep them at bay. I knocked a number off of a beautiful Django plant with a plain water spray last night. It has three weeks to go and I don't want to be picking off feeder leaves this early or hitting it with Chems.

I can see how a large garden would be quite tough to keep mite free in nearly any scenario.

[attachment=o276373] :thumbsup:

Allen

[MakeSense]

Hello Allen,
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For more info:
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[AllenScott]

Hello Allen,
I am a duly authorized representative for No Spider Mites. This product is 100% organic and works when used correctly. If you have a resale liscense I can set you up with a wholesale account just pm a phone number or e-mail. The product can be used in flower and is non-toxic to beneficial bugs, animals, and humans.
For more info:
No Spider Mites: Get Rid of Spider Mites Organically | Safe Spider Mite Control (http://www.nospidermites.com/)

Hey MakeSence. I saw your product at a grow store. They said it was so safe you could drink it. I smelled it then dipped and tasted a finger then took a shot. I found no specific ingredient label but think it is simply soapy water with a bit of Rosemary oil for smell. Am I correct and if not can will you post the ingredients?

[MakeSense]

Hey MakeSence. I saw your product at a grow store. They said it was so safe you could drink it. I smelled it then dipped and tasted a finger then took a shot. I found no specific ingredient label but think it is simply soapy water with a bit of Rosemary oil for smell. Am I correct and if not can will you post the ingredients?

No problem.
It is a combination of:
Organic Citronella Oil
Organic Geranium Oil
Citric Acid
Organic Cottonseed Oil
Rosemary

It's definately not soap water. You can test this yourself. Just shake the container and you will notice that no bubbles form. Also since it is not a poison they cannot build up a tolerance.
The plants actually seem to enjoy the stuff.

Hope this helps.

[Zedleppelin]

I do understand what you are saying Zed. Have you heard anything about mites getting immune to Floramite and Avid? I ask because I read, I think in a CU paper, that this is becoming an issue. The recommendation was to rotate the active ingredients.

I would guess that unless a grower has a sealed room and an air lock to change clothes in the little bastards will return as the chemicals break down. If flower time is nine weeks and chems break down in four to five and mites return maybe some predators sprinkled in will keep them at bay. I knocked a number off of a beautiful Django plant with a plain water spray last night. It has three weeks to go and I don't want to be picking off feeder leaves this early or hitting it with Chems.

I can see how a large garden would be quite tough to keep mite free in nearly any scenario.

[attachment=o276373] :thumbsup:

Allen


Yes, mites can and will build an immunity to any chemical including Avid and Floramite. Its been a few years since I've had mites but at the time I read where there were some Avid immune mites in California and I imagine there are some in Colorado, but so far I havent seen any. As recent as a month ago a friend had been battling mites for months so I gave him some Avid and so far he has been mite free. It sounds like you have been researching mites quite a bit so you probably already know how they are able to build an immunity so easily. Any chemical exposure that doesnt kill them is passed on to their offspring, and since they reproduce at such a fast rate you can have an immune mite within weeks. Avid is so strong I have never seen it not kill the mites, but I would think that in order for this to happen it would be due to improper usage such as mixing it to weak or not applying it properly. I think the main reason Avid is so effective is because it absorbs into the leaf tissue and is active for 4-6 weeks (which is why you only use it in veg), so any eggs that hatch they will be killed from the first meal. I did read the CU paper you mentioned about alternating, but thankfully I did not need to do that although I see the logic as to why, but buying both products is expensive.

As far as them returning after the chemical breaks down, I think as long as you practice a little common sense you should be fine. I have been growing off and on for 20 years and I've only gotten mites once and it was from a clone from a dispensary. The only normal precaution I take is I take my shoes off the minute I walk into my house, or if I was outside doing yard work or just visited a mite infested garden then I remove all clothes and shower before going near my garden. I really don't worry to much about it because once you know what to do they are not that difficult to get rid of.

[420spidermitekiller]

:D :);)

[Weezard]

The hunting from the start makes a lot of sense on wild lady bugs. I believe there are some seasonal factors as well that influence their hunger. I may try the dryer sheet trick and see what happens. I'll watch, and smell, closely as I do worry a bit about smell moving to the plants. I'm hyper dedicated to clean medicine and don't want to contaminate any of it. Peace.

I got a couple pennies for ya.

I use the Kirkland brand.
They are less "scented' than Bounce.
And I just lay them on the soil surface.
That keeps the flyers from laying eggs and any larva already in the soil from becoming fliers

They have not stunk-up the buds from that distance. ('bout 4 inches from the bottom buds)
Well, more accurately. after a week of drying, my nose can't detect any "smell of sheet" in the popcorn nugs :D
So far, so good!

There are two points I'd like to make about ladybugs.

One, it's the ladybug larva that do the bulk of the mite noshing.
277222


The effective method is to release the adult at dusk so they will spend the night
277223
and hopefully, lay eggs in the morning.


Then they can "fly away home".

And B, many of the "ladybugs" being sold are not actually ladybugs.
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Some are harlequin beetles.
Look for a "W" on the thorax instead of the "eyespots".
In Hawaii, we have black ones with red eyespots, and they bite!.

"However, the question of what do ladybugs eat is much more complex than this.
There are exceptions to most every rule, for example sub family Epilachninae can actually be considered vegetarian ladybugs.
Some of them eat fungus, like mushrooms.
There are some that like to dine on mildew. !!!
Still others prefer eating leaves and can even become pests of some plants. "



As usual, it's best to read the friendly manual and do some homework.

They avoid the dryer sheets too so ya can't use both methods of control at the same time.

And a side note.
Dryer sheets do not stop red spider mites completely but will deter the ladybugs from eating them for us. <sigh>

Aloha ya'll

Weezard.