Brown Spots Leaves Curling Upwards??? Help Me ???

[c.strife]

OK this is whats going on, I have plants all in different stages of growth and there all showing the same signs of a problem. Some of them the leaves are twisted and contorting. Also I have some that are curling upwards all around the edges, and with brownish spots with some leaf yellowing. I thought at first it was nute lock, leached soil and no changes. I am using a 250w hps mh interchangable light 16/8 day night, 50 percent RH and 65-75 degress. I am staring to believe that it is my water because I have well water and I have been told It has extreme calcium in it and I have read that can lead too a potasium lock up. Anyone have any idea if I\'m on the right track or have any other Idea\'s of what could be up. Please help me

[c.strife]

I\'m using a wing reflector 250w mh hps switchable light. Its about ten inches from my tallest plant. Right now I dont have a steady air ciculation but for now I\'m using a circulating fan and open basement windows. I have them on a 16day 8 night schedule. The soil I\'m using is fox farm ocean forest. Big plants are in 3gal smart pots and smaller ones in fiber pots. My water source is well water ( I think thats the problem) I check the ph with strips and a meter ph is always good and I use ph up and down to adjust. Nutes I\'m using is a starter kit including B.C. grow boost bloom, thrive alive green red, Magical, Sugar daddy, and Rt 66 and awsome blossoms. I feed them every three days as directed, in between feedings I water them just enough so there not dry. My grow room is in a basement a room thats probly ten feet by 15 or so right now I\'m only using about half of it though. THe temp during day is about 75 when lights on and about 65 when off, my rh stays about 50 percent constantly. I have no signs of insects and have worked very hard to keep it like that. I am growing an Indica from seeds and is not an autoflowering. The problem Im having is leave edges curling up some brown spots and on my smaller plants leaves twisting and contorting, I have been trying everything to fix it, and I think the problem is my well water, I have very high calcium water and have read that hard water can cause a potassium lock out. Some one please help me I hate to see my plants suffering. If needed I can provide pictures if needed some one please reply and help me out thanks alot

[Karmaxu]

Let me see some picture.

What is the ppm or ec you are feeding them if you know. How old are the plants and when did this start.

[Karmaxu]

Do you have an ozone generator running?

[Karmaxu]

There is a general rule that you need 1 part Mg (magnesium) to 3 parts calcium. What are the npk's of what you are using? How much of each how often. Are your tips burned crispy?

[Karmaxu]

Thrive alive is high is K as it is a seaweed extract though you say you are using green red? The green is all organic. The red has synthetic growth hormones added. Depending on how much you are using it could be a lock up as you said. Usually N flushes first, K second and P is difficult for the plant to get rid of. How long ago did you flush them. It is not an instant fix. I use less then half of what the labels say. The recommended amounts are generally a max amount for two weeks. Unfortunatly most fert companies are in the busness of selling volume so be careful with the instsuctions. The hanna grow check is a great meter for tds and ph.
If you add ph down or citric acid to your well water with the nutrients in it in a controlled experiment with poland spring or any bottled water in another container with the same nutrient mix. ( You really dont need nutrients in the two waters I suppose) Then drop the ph with equal portions of ph down to each see if the fall at the same rate. Calcium is a alkaline which means it buffers ph. If your water is really that high you will notice the difference with your two containers. In fact just use water for the experiment. Simpler is usually better.
The sugar is for the microbs in the soil and they do not metabolize it that quickly so you may wish to consider using it sparingly.

One love
c
GorillaGrow.org(anic) Home of Organic Chemistry Homepage (http://www.gorillagrow.org)

If for some silly reason they ban me give me an email. Dont ask.
your friend -karmaxul

[Karmaxu]

In case some thing happens to me and this site which I dont plan on teaching on like I used to...

Sugar and microbs...

The bacteria in the soil (aerobic which need oxygen to live vs. anaerobic which does not) turns things like your ammonium nitrogen (the earth main source of N which plants can not directly use)(through oxidation) into ammonium nitrate which they can. The bacteria through its life cycle (which live best in about a 20 to 1 carbon to nitrogen ratio) feed the plants amino acids which gets stored in the terpins or terpenoids of the plant (fats and oils). The terpins combine with you polyphenols (complex sugars) which forms your thc. This is why growing with synthetics is not the same high as the synthetics kill off the fragile forms of live (the bacteria) in the soil (dispite what Zandor tells you). This is also why most hydro has no smell. Most hydro growers use rockwool inturn depriving the plants of the carbon the bacteria need to live off of. No bacteria no amino acids unless you use a anaerobic bacterial fermentation fertilizer which the owners of sunleaves BWGS which is also the largest distributor to the grow shops does not carry. You could use coco fiber though pH is still an issue as organics only need a 300ppm tds which you will not get if you follow the instructions. Sorry if I am rambling I really what to help though and my time here is probably short lived.

[Karmaxu]

So I was just thinking about your issue in the shower and thought of two possible things.

#1: Your temp. ok so your temps are the most recommended because your plants can utilize more lumens with out worry of burning and things like spider mite populations are kept to a minimum when you drop the temps at night. Bacteria populations are also kept to a minimum when you drop your temps at night. Bacteria thrives at about 85 degrees for the most part. Your sugar which really only helps your plants via feeding the bacteria could be overloaded as your populations of benificial bacteria can not get to prime with the drop which should be taken into effect when trying to raise the brix factor with sugar. Remember plants store starch for food (produced in the blue spectrum of light) which later breaks down into sugar when needed (yellow spectrum. This is why MHs are better for grow cycles) The transpiration could have drawn the highly solvable sugar into the plants which may inturn effect the phospholipid bilayer of the cells that make up and aid in necessary functions of your plant. In short you may not want to use sugar daddy.

#2
Your soil could have a bacteria that is not beneficial. The added sugar will aid in manifesting this to levels that are not so good for your plant though I would think not so much with the temps your running. Sugars may increase the likelyhood of rusts, blights, molds and unbenifical fungi which sometimes resemble cal defs or lockup.

In either case you may wish to consider cutting your kids off from sweets.
I enjoy using earthjuice grow, bloom and maxicrop dry flakes. Thrive alive green is great though test out different levels to see what you like. I run everything low which may not be optimal for harvests though in top for quality. When I started professionally years ago some one who had been doing it professionally for years told me some thing I am going to pass on to you. Whether you follow it is up to you. When it comes to all that crazy additives, keep it simple. Best of luck.

one love
c
GorillaGrow.org(anic) Home of Organic Chemistry Homepage (http://www.gorillagrow.org)

[Karmaxu]

O and be careful who you tell. I just got released last week after 3.5 years for growing. Happy Trails.

One love
c

GorillaGrow.org(anic) Home of Organic Chemistry Homepage (http://www.gorillagrow.org)

[Karmaxu]

Rusts - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(fungus)
Blights - Blight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blight)
I would doubt its mold.

One love
c
GorillaGrow.org(anic) Home of Organic Chemistry Homepage (http://www.gorillagrow.org) :thumbsup:

[c.strife]

Thanx for the info Karmaxu just wanted to answer a few questions I don\'t have an ozone generator, when it comes to the nutes I have been using them very little (because i thought this was a salt build up) but I have plants in different stages of growth and I havn\'et gave any nutes to the smaller ones in fear of killing them. Almost all of the plants are showing the same signs of a problem some just to a lesser degree. The only thing I can figure is the problem is one of two things that all of them are getting. That would be my hard ass water or the air, I actually went and got some gals of spring water so I am gonna start using only good water and see how it goes. As far as my temp goes how much bacteria can thrive in those temps its alwayz about 70 at least can get to 80, I ask cuz I got some benifical bacterias and fungi products for the roots and overall plant health will they survive even though I run my temps a lilltle low. I am gona try running the spring water for a while to see if that helps because the water here is high in calcium and mag so much so that using a dishwasher is pointless. The tips of my plant don\'t look burnt because there green still the edges are turned up and they kinda look wrinkly I\'ll get some pic\'s up today thanx for the reply also since i don\'t have an ozone generator what should i do, how important is it to get one.

[Karmaxu]

I would love to see the pictures.

An ozone generator is not important. I mentioned it because in one of my grow rooms which was air tight I took the bulb out of the casing of my ozone generator. In about 48 hours 20% of the leaves had died. The plants were stunted for two months before they kicked back to normal. The ozone bulbs run at a spectrum of about 185.5 nanometers (billionths of a meter) which is ultraviolet B light. It interfers with the frequency of oxygen and causes to form O3 (ozone) by essentially increasing its electrical negativity or making it energized and wanting electrons so it combines with other oxygen atoms. It is not good for your immune system and apparently your plants either. Sure I was introducing 200 times what I needed but still long term I have heard it is not good either.

You could get a reverse osmosis setup to remove the calcium or you may be able to get a charcoal filter which should be fine too. There are also water softeners. If your water ph is above 7.2 you have to much calcium. The amount of pH down you use to stabilize it to much.

Temps 70 - 80 the benifical fungus can thrive. The fungus actually prefers temps around 60 - 70 as opposed to the 80s. I used to get little mushrooms growing up from my pots from time to time in VT and my plants sat on the concrete floor in my basement. 65-75 degrees I would say was average though it may have gotten just slightly cooler at night.

If the tips are not burned then your npk fert levels should be alright. N burns them up and since your plants are in veg I am guessing your N is the highest # as it should be.

What are your N-P-K levels for your products?

How did the first grow go? Did you use different things or feed at different rates.

GorillaGrow.org(anic) Home of Organic Chemistry Homepage (http://www.gorillagrow.org)
one love
c

[c.strife]

Thanks for all the info, I tested my water on ph strips and it\'s deffinately high in calcium my ph must be an 8 or more so I have been using spring water and look into gettin a reverse osmosis filter down the line when I have extra money. I am hopin to see a change in them how long do you think it would take to see some positive change?? Also do you know if pollen from other plants could pollinate other plants. I have some blueberrys n stuff I plan on growing indoors but I don\'t want to have any negative effects on the others.