Can someone help me figure out what this is???

[krazyeye420]

This plant is 8 weeks old 3 days into 12/12. FFOF with their nutrient trio been really good so far really bushy and green with fast growth. Indica with 400 watt HPS. I've been seeing these black dead looking spots and they kinda worry me. Any info. would be much appreciated.:thumbsup:

[CanGroIt]

Click here-------> http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/173775-cancom-copy-n-paste-troubleshooting-forms.html

Copy n paste, answer all the questions. After you do this, we will be able to understand your growing conditions. It could be a couple different factors rolled into what you have going on. So after you post the trouble shooting form, we can help you......or we could just guess, but that wouldn't be very helpful......

CanGroIt::::::

[krazyeye420]

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) basicly first timer with light experience in the past

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) HPS 400watt
.2) Distance from tops? 12 inches
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) bat wing
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? for the most part probably could use a bit more intake
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 12/12 400 watt hps kelvin??? don't know

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) FFOF
.8) Size of container. 5 gal
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? yes bought that way

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? tap ph is around 7
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) ph dual probe thingie
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) N/A
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. FF nute trio every other watering
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? about every other day about 1/4 gallon
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) not at the moment
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? they stay about 6.8-7 not to much fluctuation
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? 7
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? no

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? indoor
20) What size of closet, room or hut?6x4x 6 tall
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? on 80f with 47 rh off 71f with 54rh
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? I seen some little clusters of tiny holes on some of the bottom leaves no bugs other than a nat or mosquito

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) Indica blueberry
24) From seeds or clones? clone
25) Is this an autoflower strain? I dont think so?

[canniwhatsis]

Looks cal/mag deficient, your PH is a bit high which can contribute to problems with nute locks.

If your using the FF line, make sure your following directions,.... I don't use it, but I've read the directions and IIRC it's one for the first few weeks, then another for the next couple, the the last for the last few weeks, not all 3 at once,.... I could be wrong tho, wouldn't be the first time! :D

12" might be a bit close for a 400w HPS as well, but I don't think that's the source of this particular problem, just for future reference.

[krazyeye420]

Thanks for the reply Canniwhatsis

I was told a similar thing but was told it may be because I use my local tap water and the ppm could be to high... Dose this sound like it could be something to consider?

[krazyeye420]

I go by this chart for nutes


Seedlings Big bloom grow big tiger bloom
pre-transplant 2Tbl --> gallon NONE NONE
Vegetative
Week 1 2Tbl --> gallon NONE NONE
Week 2 2Tbl --> gallon 1tsp --> gallon NONE
Week 3 2Tbl --> gallon 1tsp --> gallon NONE
Week 4 2Tbl --> gallon 2tsp --> gallon NONE
Week 5 1Tbl --> gallon 2tsp --> gallon NONE
Week 6 1Tbl --> gallon NONE NONE
Flowering
Week 7 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
Week 8 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
Week 9 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
Week 10 1Tbl --> gallon 1tsp --> gallon 2tsp -> gallon
Week 11 1Tbl --> gallon 1tsp --> gallon 2tsp -> gallon
Week 12 1Tbl --> gallon 1tsp gallon 2tsp -> gallon
Week 13 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
Week 14 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
Week 15 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
Week 16 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
Week 17 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
Week 18 1Tbl --> gallon NONE 2tsp -> gallon
*note1: This chart assumes a long grow cycle. Please adjust accordingly if your cycle differs(ie if you do a 5 week veg cycle, skip week 6 and move right to week one flowing cycle.)
*note2: This chart differs slightly from FoxFarms guidlines. I feel their cycle is on the high side. Choose whichever one fits your needs best.

[CanGroIt]

Couple questions. Do you let the tap water sit out in an open container for at least a day before using? Are you mixing nutes with water every time you water/feed them? Did you flush your soil at all before starting the flower cycle? Do you have any way of measuring ppm's?

I think I can help you but I need to know this before.

CanGroIt::::::

[krazyeye420]

No I didn't let the tap sit for a day or 2 and just got ahead of myself.... I only use the nutes every other watering. I did not flush before flowering didn't really know I needed to. I do not have a ppm reader. I will buy 1 if need be. I figured i would just start again with distilled water. What do you think?

[Mellowyellow1st]

Try weaker nutes

[WashougalWonder]

Looks nute burn to me, flush, you have a mag lockout. I have been using water straight out of the tap without any issues, not even letting the chlorine dissipate. Using distilled or RO causes issues like this but in that case it would be lack of Mg in the water to cause the lack of Mg as the current lockout is doing

[CanGroIt]

No I didn't let the tap sit for a day or 2 and just got ahead of myself.... I only use the nutes every other watering. I did not flush before flowering didn't really know I needed to. I do not have a ppm reader. I will buy 1 if need be. I figured i would just start again with distilled water. What do you think?

Tap water is specific to each water districts. Some water companies have to add more or less of whatever they add depending on the specific needs of the water in that area. What might work for someone else might not work for you. In your case, your plant seems to be growing ok with the tap. If you can smell the chlorine or even taste it, you need to let it sit out for best results. Chlorine in the water can kill any beneficial bacteria in your soil.

Personally, I flush just before flowering, at week 5 of flower and then a final flush 10-14 days before harvesting. I do this to prevent salt buildup in the soil. If you feed to often and don't flush regularly, you end up with what appears to be the situation you are in now, nute lockout.

ppm meters are good to have so you can monitor just how strong of a concoction you are giving them. And for the most part, the feeding chart you are following is just a generalized chart. They usually are not specific to this type of plant species. With time and experience, you will learn what they need and when.

You can start giving distiller water. If you don't have a way of correcting the waters Ph before adding to the soil, I suggest you get yourself what you need to do so. Also, if you are going to use water that has been filtered, you are going to need some Cal-Mag.

To correct what is going on now is very simple, flush your soil!!! Get yourself 10-15gal of water and put it in your soil to "flush" out the buildup of nutes. I'd do it again after it dries from the first flush just to be sure. I use tap water for flushing only and I let it sit out before adding. 10-15gal of filtered water for flushing kinda seems like a waste to me, but that's just me......

Hope this helps you......

CanGroIt::::::

[WashougalWonder]

Chlorine in the water can kill any beneficial bacteria in your soil.This rings true, but my garden says otherwise.

If you feed to often and don't flush regularly, you end up with what appears to be the situation you are in now, nute lockout. Yep that is the cause.

Also, if you are going to use water that has been filtered, you are going to need some Cal-Mag. Not filtered, only RO or distilled. Filtering does not remove micronutes




CanGroIt::::::
So, I just wanted to correct a couple little things.

[CanGroIt]

So, I just wanted to correct a couple little things.

You actually only corrected one thing, that filtered water still carries micro nutes. I apologize for using the wrong term in that sentence. We can all sleep better at night now that we know this. Thank you Wash......

And as for your garden, they would probably thank you if you were to add the micro nutes to RO water instead of just giving them what comes with the tap......but to each his own......

Happy Growing!!

CanGroIt::::::

[krazyeye420]

Okay I went and bought some RO water. Flushed plants and they are already looking better! Thank you guys for helping me! One more thing... you say "micro nutes" Please explain what that is because I thought The FFOF along with the fox farms trio was plenty enough? So I may need some of this cal/mag and micro nutes???? And are my ph levels suposed to be 6.3-7? Thats what I have been going by.

[attemptmischief]

i got yellow leaves ,,lol i heard about brown spots maybe over watering ,,12 /12 is that ur light cycle ?? and how big is ur bucket ,,...and can u feel heat from the lights you got ??

[CanGroIt]

you say "micro nutes" Please explain what that is because I thought The FFOF along with the fox farms trio was plenty enough? So I may need some of this cal/mag and micro nutes????

First, glad to hear they are looking better....

Nutes = N-P-K = (N) Nitrogen - (P2O5) Phosphate - (K2O) Potassium - These are usually found in three part nutrient mixes. Look at the chemical compound formulas on the labels of your nutes to find out the levels in each bottle.

Micro Nutes - Examples would be - (Ca) Calcium, (Mg) Magnesium, (Fe) Iron, (Mn) Manganese, (Zn) Zinc, just to name a few. Check your labels, as long as you have these nutes and micro nutes, you should be fine. And your soil ph is perfect anywhere between 6.3-6.8....

Hope this helps....

CanGroIt::::::

[krazyeye420]

Thanks again cangrowit I def. think it was the tap water. :pimp:274455

[CanGroIt]

Thanks again cangrowit I def. think it was the tap water.....


:thumbsup: That's what we are here for, to help each other out.....


CanGroIt::::::

[WashougalWonder]

If you must use RO, you will need to use molasses or Cal/Mag every watering. It will also adjust your pH down. The least expensive is the molasses, I use 1 tsp in 5 gallons to recover RO deficiencies. FF OF does not have enough. Overdose with cal/mag looks like your above picture too. :thumbsup:

[Rusty Trichome]

Looks to me like an overdose was the culprit, not the water.
Have you checked for the Fox Farms Weekly Feeding Schedule for soil, or are you trying to use the bottle directions? Quite a a few companies that list bottle directions assume it's used as a stand-alone nutrient. This can and will adversely affect your ladies. No need for the soluables they list on the feeding schedule, until you are experienced enough to recognize the issues that their use will bring. The 'Trio' works pretty darned good if you follow directions. With the Trio, mid-way through flowering you'll want to add the molasses or CalMag Plus at standard dilution, while lowering or discontinuing the Big Bloom.

In case you haven't seen it, check here: http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/FoxFarm-Soil-Schedule.pdf

Sorry...I'm not a believer that you need to worry about TDS ppm's if you're in soil. How many ppm's exist in a gallon of potting soil? And since you are trying to lower the ppm's of water, shouldn't you guy's be just as worried about the TDS ppm's of the soil you're in...? From my years of experience in the online cannabis community, this all started with a concept for watering/feeding hydro plants, and has 'morphed' into a need for soil growing, too. But...I'm just not buyin' it for soil grows.

Feel free to show data and prove me wrong though. :thumbsup:

[CanGroIt]

Personally, the reason I use ppm counts is to track the strengh of the nute solution. I don't see it any different than saying that you are using 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or full strength. And yes, this ppm count habit that ive fallen into was something that I kept from my years of hydro growing..... It's just a different method of tracking your nute solution is all......

[Rusty Trichome]

Cool. Some folks are a bit over-zealous with the necessity for ultra-pure water. But isn't the ppm guide usually related to hydro grows, or do you need to alter it for soil quantities? In other words...does it take you the same quantity of nutrients to get the same hydro ppm's as (let's say) a 1 tsp per gallon recommendation for soil?

[CanGroIt]

But isn't the ppm guide usually related to hydro grows, or do you need to alter it for soil quantities? In other words...does it take you the same quantity of nutrients to get the same hydro ppm's as (let's say) a 1 tsp per gallon recommendation for soil?

The ppm guide is for sure a hydro necessity. I, like you said, "morphed" this over into my soil nute regimen. No, I don't alter the ppm's from a usual hydro application specifically for soil. Just like I would hydro, I start off with light nutes and work up as the plant(s) grow.

Not sure if I read your second question correctly but 1tsp per gallon is going to result in the amount of ppm's that it comes out to. I'm sure you already knew that but like I said, I'm not sure if I read it correctly.

I track ppm's just so I know I'm not over feeding.

[Rusty Trichome]

I was using the numbers compatitively. Rephrased: If it takes 1 tsp per gallon to get to your hydro ppm goal, is 1 tsp per gallon used in soil also? You answered already, but I am wondering the advantage of using a meter rather than a cheap teaspoon. But if it's a habit, I think I understand, lol. Being in soil all my life, teaspoons are a necessity.

[MedicineMan11]

I have what looks like the same problem and am also using Fox Farm.

[c.strife]

Hi guys I am having a similar problem, I am using a 250w mh/hps switchable using FFOF I am using florilux nutes (B.C. grow ect) my water ph is about 6.5 and same with nutes. I was using my tap water but had to change to spring water because my water has a ph of like 9. I have been using spring water for about a week. Temps are about 75 day 70 nite. I\\\'m getting a leaf problem first the leaves look dry then they start to get some brown spots. It ends up just spreading and the whole leaf curls turns brown and yellow. I can post some pics if anyone could give me a reply. I have some plants that are doing this and some have been fed with nutes and some have not. Can a lack of something in the air like lack of co2 thats could do this or even too much co2 because my rooms in the basement with the furnace. Some one please help me. I had filled out the full trouble shooting form under another post under leaves curling yellow brown spots please help me :( so someone please help me first time grower :) If you need more info just ask I have tried about everything that people have suggested. thanx in advance for the help

[krazyeye420]

c.strife-
Read the beginning of the thread where I was told to copy and paste. Fill that out so you can get help 2.
I will keep updating once in awhile on my own grow. Just got the grow bible so I think that will help as well. Thanks again guys-

[polishpollack]

Greetings.
Your pics look like overfert. Very dark green in some areas, which probably indicates to much N. I don't think it's the quality of water necessarily, but r/o should be good to use. Distilled water is also good to use. With all the fert you put in there, it should be enough for a while without any more added. The problem with these liquid ferts is that while the company will give instructions on the back as to how much to mix with water, they don't tell you how often to feed. I know there are feeding schedules but when problems like this develop, you've got to wonder just how accurate these schedules are. Foxfarm makes powder ferts that come in boxes that solves this problem. Make sure you read labels on back of the container and see what ferts are in there. Plants usually need 11 to 16 different fert components to grow and ideally you fert with a product that has as much as possible. Just not too often, eh?
Regarding the teaspoon and ppm/tds discussion, I would think they're essentially the same, but a meter allows for a more precise measurement and will help a grower understand fert content per unit of water when the two are mixed together.

[krazyeye420]

4 Weeks. How's she look?

[polishpollack]

Show off. :thumbsup: Looks great. However, need white light, not sodium to see it properly and a close up of some leaves would be great to see how they look individually.

[Dreadscale]

Hi all !!

Looks as if you have a bit of rust going.

[mak14317]

use ro water n PPM count............