Is this n deficiency or just need feeding ?? NEED YOUR HELP PLZ!!!

[budbudding]

Hi ,

Could this be N deficiency? Or maybee just needs feeding ?,
my plants are 3weeks old today from cutting's , I planted into plagron growmix with perlite which is meant to keep plants feed for 3 to 4 weeks ,.
My plants have been drooping every day towards the end of the light session and then after 6 hours of night they are up and ready to go !!(i presume they are resting , as im a noob i dnt really know only from what i have read),. But today i put the light on and they havnt recoverd , the leaves seemed to have clawed and drooped like claws and the leaves have gone a really light green. I have also noticed that one leaf has got white dots and another has got yellow dots about 3-5 right next to each other???
I took one out of a pot to check the roots they seem ok , a little dark but mostly white once again im no expert so i will post pics and let you be the judge of that one! soil looks wet , plants was watered 2 days ago ,..These plants are 22" in hi

Any help would be Great thankyou

[budbudding]

....

[budbudding]

....

[Rusty Trichome]

You'll need to find a way to check water ph, and adjust it if necessary. "The claw" and the yellowing are a sign of ph being too low. Check online for you local 'Water Quality Report' and see what the average ph is for your local tapwater. This is at least a good starting point.

But most likely the buffers in your soil have been depleted. What is that...a 2 gallon pot? If so, I'd transplant to at least a 3 gallon pot, and prepare for switching to 12/12 soon. The fresh soil should provide enough buffering to take 'em to harvest. Do not let the roots dry-out when taking glamor shots of the rootball.

What kind lighting are you using? (CFL's, HPS, MH, fluoro tubes...?) When you do switch to flowering, the plant will stretch. Somewhere between twice it's height to 4 times it's height right now...depending on strain. The usable light from CFL's and fluoro tubes does not extend very far, but HID lights provide plenty of light.

Keeping a fan blowing directly on the plant(s) will strengthen the stems and prevent 'stale air' pockets.

You won't have to type as much if you'd continue at least one of the posts you've started regarding this grow, and were you to fill-out (copy-n-paste) the proper troubleshooting form (the link is in my signature) we could give you a better-informed answer to most of your questions and in a more timely manner.

Keep reading. Learning this stuff won't happen overnight. :thumbsup:

[budbudding]

You'll need to find a way to check water ph, and adjust it if necessary. "The claw" and the yellowing are a sign of ph being too low. Check online for you local 'Water Quality Report' and see what the average ph is for your local tapwater. This is at least a good starting point.

But most likely the buffers in your soil have been depleted. What is that...a 2 gallon pot? If so, I'd transplant to at least a 3 gallon pot, and prepare for switching to 12/12 soon. The fresh soil should provide enough buffering to take 'em to harvest. Do not let the roots dry-out when taking glamor shots of the rootball.

What kind lighting are you using? (CFL's, HPS, MH, fluoro tubes...?) When you do switch to flowering, the plant will stretch. Somewhere between twice it's height to 4 times it's height right now...depending on strain. The usable light from CFL's and fluoro tubes does not extend very far, but HID lights provide plenty of light.

Keeping a fan blowing directly on the plant(s) will strengthen the stems and prevent 'stale air' pockets.

You won't have to type as much if you'd continue at least one of the posts you've started regarding this grow, and were you to fill-out (copy-n-paste) the proper troubleshooting form (the link is in my signature) we could give you a better-informed answer to most of your questions and in a more timely manner.

Keep reading. Learning this stuff won't happen overnight. :thumbsup:

Hi rusty, the bulb im not sure on , its a 600 watt dual sectrum grow lamp made by sunmaster,.. as for the pots these ar 3 gallon pots , 14ltrs just need to add a bit mor soil ,,. My local ph water is 7.8 , ive been puting it in at 6.3 , my plagron grow mix ph was 5.8 - 6.3 i think wasnt it ?? and i was thinking of putting them into flower now , will they still grow in flower , ive heard they will about double the size but not know if thats right or not ??

[budbudding]

Hi ,

light is a sunmaster 600watt HPS Dual spectrum

[budbudding]

Hi ,

light is a sunmaster 600watt HPS Dual spectrum

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)...600watt HPS
.2) Distance from tops? 2FT
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) bare bulb
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? yes , 4" ducting from a extractor fan out side to the tent
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes 4 "
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 600watts 18/6

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) Plagron grow mix with perlite
.8) Size of container. 3 gallon
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? no

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? tap water ph7.8
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) ph meter
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) phosphoric acid ph down
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. for mister i use canna rhizotonic 0.6-0.2-0.6
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? 4-5 days 3ltrs
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)no
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? 6.3 in runoff is 6.7
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray?

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? in doors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? grow tent 1200x1200x2000
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? lights on 79-83 rh 40-50% when off 62-67 rh 45-60%
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? no

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) not sure?? , Jack herer
24) From seeds or clones? cuttings
25) Is this an autoflower strain??....???

[polishpollack]

At 83F, your lights-on temp is a little high. Leaves curl upward to transpire when air temp is high. It looks like the leaf ends are curling upward; am I seeing that right? Your pH is interesting in that it is higher on the way out than going in. Should be the other way around, but at any rate, it's not bad at all. I wouldn't mess with it right now. Also I don't know if foliar feed is what you want to do, although it doesn't appear to have a bad effect as your plant looks good. 0.2 of phosphorus may not be enough to go through flower, although if fed directly to the leaves it might be ok provided you don't over do it. Info I found on Plagron Growmix is that its fert content is good for the the first 3 weeks of veg, which is probably the typical duration of veg for most indoor grows. You'll have to consider using a blooming fert. Plagron has a couple ferts, one called Terra Bloom, that will work great if the NPK adequate. As always, read the lables. Try to get the most for your money. If Terra looks like it has most or all the micronutes and good NPK, then it should work great in that soil. Actually a 5 gallon pot is enough to get through flowering, if you do this right. The biggest problem for adding ferts after the plant is in soil is that it's hard to tell how much to give and how often. Alot of people overdo the fert because they don't know what's still available in the soil and what isn't. Probably the best way to handle this is to wait until the lower leaves become pale green to maybe a little yellow, then give a fert dose. The directions on the container will probably tell you how much fert to use per liter or gallon of water. Also, you want the soil to dry out some before watering, to let oxygen get to the roots. Your watering amount might be ok at temps in the low 80's, but you don't want to overwater. I think your plant looks pretty good, actually. best of luck.

[budbudding]

At 83F, your lights-on temp is a little high. Leaves curl upward to transpire when air temp is high. It looks like the leaf ends are curling upward; am I seeing that right? Your pH is interesting in that it is higher on the way out than going in. Should be the other way around, but at any rate, it's not bad at all. I wouldn't mess with it right now. Also I don't know if foliar feed is what you want to do, although it doesn't appear to have a bad effect as your plant looks good. 0.2 of phosphorus may not be enough to go through flower, although if fed directly to the leaves it might be ok provided you don't over do it. Info I found on Plagron Growmix is that its fert content is good for the the first 3 weeks of veg, which is probably the typical duration of veg for most indoor grows. You'll have to consider using a blooming fert. Plagron has a couple ferts, one called Terra Bloom, that will work great if the NPK adequate. As always, read the lables. Try to get the most for your money. If Terra looks like it has most or all the micronutes and good NPK, then it should work great in that soil. Actually a 5 gallon pot is enough to get through flowering, if you do this right. The biggest problem for adding ferts after the plant is in soil is that it's hard to tell how much to give and how often. Alot of people overdo the fert because they don't know what's still available in the soil and what isn't. Probably the best way to handle this is to wait until the lower leaves become pale green to maybe a little yellow, then give a fert dose. The directions on the container will probably tell you how much fert to use per liter or gallon of water. Also, you want the soil to dry out some before watering, to let oxygen get to the roots. Your watering amount might be ok at temps in the low 80's, but you don't want to overwater. I think your plant looks pretty good, actually. best of luck.

Hi polishpollock thanx for your time cheers mate !

To be honest with you , this is my first attemped at growing cannabis , ive never even seen a cannabis plant in my life , ( bet ive smoked enough of them tho :) ) so i wouldnt know what to look at so im a bit para at this time , ive spent alot of time and sleepness nights over these lol ...any way enough of me waffling....

...Yes you can see the sides pointing up , I was aware that it could be heat related, i have tryed my upmost to bring this down as much as i can , before i added a extractor fan out side the house with a 4" ducting attached
run into the tent , temps were at about 90,! If i could afford a air conditioner i would get one for sure but thats the best i can get so i will have to make do for now :/ , But at these temps am i puting any thing at risk? Also all the stems are a purple colour, i was told this is through stress?? , would i be able to put into flower like this ??

I have got bloom , Alga bloom from plagron , but it doesnt tell me how much is in there only whats in there ...NITROGEN, PHOSPHORUS, FERMENTEN, POTASSIUM, AMINO ACIDS, VITAMINS, TRACE ELEMENTS , ENZYMES, MINERALS, GROWTH HORMONES,. Dosage say's 4ml per ltr, should i stick to that?? ..Would this be ok to use ? And just 1 more thing ? Is it true that plants double even triple their size in flower? if so my plants are 23" would it be best to start flower soon as possible? and would you recomend i chage from these 3 gallon pots into 5 gallon pots ? if so what soil would be best for me ?


Thanx again !

Kev

[budbudding]

Plagron Alga-Bloom
Alga Bloom is an organic and easy to use nutrient for the bloom phase. Because Plants have different needs during the bloom phase, they need a specially adapted food with a different NPK ratio. Alga Bloom promotes improved root development and a strong, rich flowering of the plant. Plagron Alga-bloom contains: 13% phosphor, 14% potash, 1.5% nitrogen, trace elements, vitamins, enzymes, growth hormones, ferments and more than 20 types of amino acids.
Usage: Dilute 4 ml with 1 litre of water. Water the plants with this dilution once a week. A 1 litre bottle.

Would i need to add on this ??

[rattlingdags]

Wondering if this link will work.
http://www.growcenter-noord.nl/kweekschema/plagronbioschedule.pdf

Note that the nutrients listed are at amounts to be added every watering rather than weekly dosages as for some other brands.
All the best with your girls Bud

[budbudding]

Wondering if this link will work.
http://www.growcenter-noord.nl/kweekschema/plagronbioschedule.pdf

Note that the nutrients listed are at amounts to be added every watering rather than weekly dosages as for some other brands.
All the best with your girls Bud

Thats brilliant mate thankyou for your time :)

Have you used plagron bloom before mate ??

[polishpollack]

Ratlingdags, that's a good find. I'm sure there's Plagron users around here that would like that chart.
budbudding, those NPK numbers look good to me. There fert looks sound, except for calcium and magnesium. It would be nice to discover if the fert has this stuff in it and if not, maybe the soil does already so look on the bag to see if those two are listed.
Not sure how you're getting 90 temps in winter but you must be growing is a tight spot. Chances are good 4" duct won't be enough and 6" would be better. If the 4 got your temp down to 83F, you might try to boost the airflow and get the temp down, or turn down your thermostat to lower the air temp, open a window, that's sort of thing. An air conditioner would be good because they remove humidity from a grow area, which always builds up.
I doubt if stress is why the stems are purple. It's probably more due to genetics or a nutrient, but I doubt right now that it's a problem.
4 mls per liter should be fine if that's what it says to use. I would put them in 5 gallon containers but that's just me. If you don't plan on growing them out alot, then 3 gallon might suffice. I don't know about tripling in size. All I can say is that plants continue to grow in flower. These plants will usually flower for about 5 weeks before they're ready to harvest. I will probably double in size in that time. You can cut the top off and it will bush outward more rather than grow vertically, but then you might lose some of the end product by doing that. I would continue using Plagron soil and fresh soil will have some fert to it. Use just 2 or maybe 3 mls of the bloom fert per liter, to avoid overdoing it for the first week or two of bloom. I'd put the plant on 12/12 light cycle now, after making the switch to a bigger container. 5 gallons would really be better but it's up to you. If it looks like you're getting good growth in bloom with 2 ml per liter, don't change it until you start to see a nute deficiency. Let the soil dry out some before you water again.
And what is Fermenten? got to be sugars.

[budbudding]

Ratlingdags, that's a good find. I'm sure there's Plagron users around here that would like that chart.
budbudding, those NPK numbers look good to me. There fert looks sound, except for calcium and magnesium. It would be nice to discover if the fert has this stuff in it and if not, maybe the soil does already so look on the bag to see if those two are listed.
Not sure how you're getting 90 temps in winter but you must be growing is a tight spot. Chances are good 4" duct won't be enough and 6" would be better. If the 4 got your temp down to 83F, you might try to boost the airflow and get the temp down, or turn down your thermostat to lower the air temp, open a window, that's sort of thing. An air conditioner would be good because they remove humidity from a grow area, which always builds up.
I doubt if stress is why the stems are purple. It's probably more due to genetics or a nutrient, but I doubt right now that it's a problem.
4 mls per liter should be fine if that's what it says to use. I would put them in 5 gallon containers but that's just me. If you don't plan on growing them out alot, then 3 gallon might suffice. I don't know about tripling in size. All I can say is that plants continue to grow in flower. These plants will usually flower for about 5 weeks before they're ready to harvest. I will probably double in size in that time. You can cut the top off and it will bush outward more rather than grow vertically, but then you might lose some of the end product by doing that. I would continue using Plagron soil and fresh soil will have some fert to it. Use just 2 or maybe 3 mls of the bloom fert per liter, to avoid overdoing it for the first week or two of bloom. I'd put the plant on 12/12 light cycle now, after making the switch to a bigger container. 5 gallons would really be better but it's up to you. If it looks like you're getting good growth in bloom with 2 ml per liter, don't change it until you start to see a nute deficiency. Let the soil dry out some before you water again.
And what is Fermenten? got to be sugars.

Thanx polishpollack great advive thanx
,
Just one thing tho , would it be best to switch pot before flower or could i do dueing ? only asking coz i want to put into flower the end of today , but i do not have the money to get new pots or soil yet ?

cheers

[bigsby]

You can up pot during first week - ten days of flower. Give it a few days to adjust to the new schedule.

[rattlingdags]

Budbudding wrote :
Have you used plagron bloom before mate ??

Nope not yet sorry, only at the veging stage with the Plagron.
If its of use to anyone this link is to a list of a variety of feeding schedules from several brands. Just click your nute brand on the list under 'Kweekschema' and the file will open as a pdf.
Note in dutch 'Kweekschema' is 'Growing Schedule' in english. Some of the files are in english, some in dutch.
Growcenter-Noord.nl (http://www.growcenter-noord.nl/information.php?info_id=16)

[budbudding]

You can up pot during first week - ten days of flower. Give it a few days to adjust to the new schedule.

Thankyou Bigsby and thanx for your time :)

[budbudding]

Budbudding wrote :
Nope not yet sorry, only at the veging stage with the Plagron.
If its of use to anyone this link is to a list of a variety of feeding schedules from several brands. Just click your nute brand on the list under 'Kweekschema' and the file will open as a pdf.
Note in dutch 'Kweekschema' is 'Growing Schedule' in english. Some of the files are in english, some in dutch.
Growcenter-Noord.nl (http://www.growcenter-noord.nl/information.php?info_id=16)

Great find mate !! ,... That will help alot of people out

Thankyou :)

[budbudding]

Hi

Are these condition's ok for flowering? lights on temp 79-83 rh 45-53% ,. And lights off is temp 69-73 rh 58-65% ??

Thanx :)

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)...600watt HPS
.2) Distance from tops? 2FT
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) bare bulb
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? yes , 4" ducting from a extractor fan out side to the tent
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes 4 "
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 600watts 18/6

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) Plagron grow mix with perlite
.8) Size of container. 3 gallon
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? no

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? tap water ph7.8
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) ph meter
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) phosphoric acid ph down
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. for mister i use canna rhizotonic 0.6-0.2-0.6
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? 4-5 days 3ltrs
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)no
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? 6.3 in runoff is 6.7
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray?

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? in doors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? grow tent 1200x1200x2000
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? lights on 79-83 rh 40-50% when off 62-67 rh 45-60%
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? no

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) not sure?? , Jack herer
24) From seeds or clones? cuttings
25) Is this an autoflower strain??....???

your ph seems ok, your temps are still high. jack herer is notorious for difficulty, try something like northern lights for ease of grow. to me it seems your not watering enough, it looks dry from your pics. with that root mass you should be watering every 2-3 days especially at your temps. humidity is also high, do you have enough ventilation? flowering when issues are corrected wouldnt be a bad idea. your almost ready for nutes and cal/mag and or molasses. just go easy dont use high nutrient products.

[budbudding]

your ph seems ok, your temps are still high. jack herer is notorious for difficulty, try something like northern lights for ease of grow. to me it seems your not watering enough, it looks dry from your pics. with that root mass you should be watering every 2-3 days especially at your temps. humidity is also high, do you have enough ventilation? flowering when issues are corrected wouldnt be a bad idea. your almost ready for nutes and cal/mag and or molasses. just go easy dont use high nutrient products.

High mate

Yes i dont think that i have a problem with ventilation , Well i hope i havnt, i have fresh air in take and a exhust , so hope thats fine? i think it throw's in as much as it does out !
Sorry but what is cal/mag ? and molasses? i have no idea!

[Rusty Trichome]

Most of the info you've been given is solid, with the exception of those that are overly concerned with your 83 degree temperatures. During the summer I'm lucky if my night-time temps dip that low. Try and keep the day/night (high/low) temps within 15-20 degrees if possible. The tighter the range, the better. (without getting all anal about it)

Can't say I'm a big fan of feeding with every watering, but if it works for ya go for it. Some may understand this, some may go "huh...?"...but if a quantitative datum of 1 (level) tsp per gallon per week is optimal, then cutting it down to 3 feedings at 1/3 tsp per gallon is likely straying from that optimal 'datum'. Especially if one has a habit of doing heaping measurements 3 times a week rather than one level measurement, once a week. (super-easy over feed) If mixing larger batches of nutrients, then this is not a concern. But for smaller grows, it can be a big problem. I guess what I'm getting at, is...the smaller the batch, the more careful and consistent you need to be.

Just something to keep in mind as you're developing your schedule, but I'm a big fan of the KISS principles.

CalMag Plus and molasses are sources of iron, calcium and magnesium. Plants need calcium for cell wall development and growth, especially later in maturity. Personally, I prefer unsulfered molasses.

[polishpollack]

I don't get it. Why would anyone have the habit of doing heaping measurements 3 times a week? "If mixing larger batches of nutrients, then this is not a concern."
Huh? Why wouldn't this be a concern? Don't you think it's just as easy to over-feed with large batches of nutes as with small ones? Isn't the important thing actually the ratio of nutes to water that's the issue? Why do you write of using 1 tsp per gallon, saying it can be broken up as 1/3 tsp per gallon? Don't you end up giving about 3 times the normal amount of water? If you're using 1/3 strength nutes over time, shouldn't a grower use 1/3 the water, to maintain the right ratio? Otherwise you give too much water, correct? And how is it that you arrive at such a bizarre example?
(The starter of this thread is using liters, by the way).

Rusty, you also wrote several days ago that someone should smell the bottoms of their pots to detect rootrot. Do you really think this is going to work? Chances are all they're going to smell is wet potting soil, if anything at all. Some people here say you're the guy to listen to, but I think many of the things you write do not make any sense. I think you come here just to get your ego stroked. Whether you're right or wrong seems to be irrelevant to you. I've been reading this forum for about 8 years now and it's obvious that you're here just to get stroked. Stinkyattic did the same thing but at least stinkyattic had a greater tendency to be right. But even when she was wrong, she would dig in her heels and fight back if anyone tried to correct her.

[budbudding]

Is my temps and my rh to high yes/no??
I watered with plain water ph 7.8 run off 6.7 is this ok ??
I work in ml's and ltr's !
I believe a table spoon is 10ml and Tspoon 5mil ??
My plagron alga bloom says 4ml per ltr , There is 4.5 ltrs per gallon correct? so this would mean i need almost 2 table spoons per gallon ? does this not seem high???
What other nutes am i needing in flower , I have canna pk 13/14 to use a week be four harvest , Is this correct?, or anything that is vital in flowering i need to know ???

[budbudding]

Am a little worried im gonna run out of space to grow these plants!! ,They gerw 5 inches in the 12 hours of night!! , :¬O ,

I have noticed tho that there are a few yellow dots showing on some leave's , maybe caused by me misting?? im going to stop that now ! Gonna keep an eye on it just to see if any more appear , if they do what could this be ??, i cant spot any mites ! Also the sides of the leaves seem to stay pointing slightly up, about 45 degree's , any idea what could be causeing this?

Here's a couple of snaps , do they look good ?

[polishpollack]

83 can be a bit high for an indoor grow, that doesn't have much airflow.

pH is fine.

Tablespoon is 15 mls.

3.9 liters per gallon.

For measuring mls you can get a syringe from your local chemist/drug store/whatever you call it in England/UK nations. Or you can try ml measuring devices intended for uses in cooking/chemistry, etc.

Don't know about using pk a week before harvest. This doesn't sound right. I'm guessing it's only a phosphorus/potassium fert. I'm thinking that you use this for the entire flower/bloom cycle, but you might want to throw in some nitrogen fert, to keep the plants green during flowering. CANNA - THE SOLUTION FOR GROWTH AND BLOOM (http://www.canna.com/)

Yellow dots - if there are no bugs in your grow space, then this could be magnesium deficiency, as this usually shows up like golden-yellow spotting on the upper side of the leaves. If Canna doesn't say anything about having mg (magnesium) in it, then you probably need to add some. A cal/mag product will do nicely.

Plants look pretty good, but will outgrow such a small space. Either move some or you'll have to trim them back quite a bit. People put alot of plants into a small area apparently forgetting that the plants will grow.

[budbudding]

83 can be a bit high for an indoor grow, that doesn't have much airflow.

pH is fine.

Tablespoon is 15 mls.

3.9 liters per gallon.

For measuring mls you can get a syringe from your local chemist/drug store/whatever you call it in England/UK nations. Or you can try ml measuring devices intended for uses in cooking/chemistry, etc.

Don't know about using pk a week before harvest. This doesn't sound right. I'm guessing it's only a phosphorus/potassium fert. I'm thinking that you use this for the entire flower/bloom cycle, but you might want to throw in some nitrogen fert, to keep the plants green during flowering. CANNA - THE SOLUTION FOR GROWTH AND BLOOM (http://www.canna.com/)

Yellow dots - if there are no bugs in your grow space, then this could be magnesium deficiency, as this usually shows up like golden-yellow spotting on the upper side of the leaves. If Canna doesn't say anything about having mg (magnesium) in it, then you probably need to add some. A cal/mag product will do nicely.

Plants look pretty good, but will outgrow such a small space. Either move some or you'll have to trim them back quite a bit. People put alot of plants into a small area apparently forgetting that the plants will grow.

Your so right mate thanks , magnesium deficiency it defo is , Should i use that in the next feed with cal? , i will be using plagrom alga bloom at the same time will this be ok ,. But the next time they will be feed will be monday ! Do you think it will be ok to wait until then ?

And i have been using a ml syringe :)

[polishpollack]

Why do you plan on using two different bloom ferts? One or the other but not both. Get a cal/mag product and follow the directions on the container, giving a dose soon. I wouldn't wait until Monday. Wait a couple weeks and give another dose, and that should be good until they're done. Don't mix the cal/mag with your other fert however. mix each with their own waters to avoid the calcium and phosphorus from binding to each other. Only get the cal mag if the alga doesn't have calcium and mg in it. Pick the bloom fert that has more stuff in it. Canna might be easily absorbed but it may not have everything plants need. Let them grow another ten inches, then tranplant to larger containers, using same soil.

[budbudding]

Why do you plan on using two different bloom ferts? One or the other but not both. Get a cal/mag product and follow the directions on the container, giving a dose soon. I wouldn't wait until Monday. Wait a couple weeks and give another dose, and that should be good until they're done. Don't mix the cal/mag with your other fert however. mix each with their own waters to avoid the calcium and phosphorus from binding to each other. Only get the cal mag if the alga doesn't have calcium and mg in it. Pick the bloom fert that has more stuff in it. Canna might be easily absorbed but it may not have everything plants need. Let them grow another ten inches, then tranplant to larger containers, using same soil.

Plagron Alga-Bloom
Alga Bloom is an organic and easy to use nutrient for the bloom phase. Because Plants have different needs during the bloom phase, they need a specially adapted food with a different NPK ratio. Alga Bloom promotes improved root development and a strong, rich flowering of the plant. Plagron Alga-bloom contains: 13% phosphor, 14% potash, 1.5% nitrogen, trace elements, vitamins, enzymes, growth hormones, ferments and more than 20 types of amino acids.
Usage: Dilute 4 ml with 1 litre of water. Water the plants with this dilution once a week. A 1 litre bottle

No cal/mag , should i still avoid using together??

[polishpollack]

You use them but do so seperately, adding one fert with water, then the other mixed with water. You don't want to mix calcium and phosphorus together because the cal and P will bind together and become useless. Put them in the soil but do so seperately, or I suppose you can mix in the same water but don't mix them together without water. Don't mix them in water and them set it aside as the longer the calcium and P are together, the greater chance they will mix and become useless.

[budbudding]

You use them but do so seperately, adding one fert with water, then the other mixed with water. You don't want to mix calcium and phosphorus together because the cal and P will bind together and become useless. Put them in the soil but do so seperately, or I suppose you can mix in the same water but don't mix them together without water. Don't mix them in water and them set it aside as the longer the calcium and P are together, the greater chance they will mix and become useless.

Cheers mate you've been a great help ! . I'll keep posted on thee out come .
thanx again :)

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

Is my temps and my rh to high yes/no??
I watered with plain water ph 7.8 run off 6.7 is this ok ??
I work in ml's and ltr's !
I believe a table spoon is 10ml and Tspoon 5mil ??
My plagron alga bloom says 4ml per ltr , There is 4.5 ltrs per gallon correct? so this would mean i need almost 2 table spoons per gallon ? does this not seem high???
What other nutes am i needing in flower , I have canna pk 13/14 to use a week be four harvest , Is this correct?, or anything that is vital in flowering i need to know ???

6.7 is ok. get a syringe and see what a ml looks like, its basically a few drops is equal. high nutrient feeds can overload most plants so be careful and go easy. increase as needed. im still a believer in temps no more than 78f. 13/14 is high nutes feed and you still need some n in flower.

[Rusty Trichome]

I don't get it.
Gee...that's no surprise. Math was my major, so it's no surprise that perhaps you should look-up what a datum is...
But in a nutshell...
Starting at point "A", you want to measure 100 feet. First, use a 100ft tape measure, and mark the spot.
Next, get a ruler and mark-off 100 feet. They will not be the same. The smaller measuring devise will provide a varriable with every (foot of) measurement, while the larger (or longer) tool will be off at a maximum of once.


Why would anyone have the habit of doing heaping measurements 3 times a week? "If mixing larger batches of nutrients, then this is not a concern."
Huh? Why wouldn't this be a concern? Don't you think it's just as easy to over-feed with large batches of nutes as with small ones?
Not at all...If you are mixing for one or two plants, and only mix 1/2 gallon batches at a time, it's easier to miss the mark, than when mixing 5 gallon batches. In other words...one drop is a major quantity when using 1/3 tsp measurements. Conversely, one or two drops is negligible when measuring a few teaspoons or a couple of tablespoons.


Isn't the important thing actually the ratio of nutes to water that's the issue? Why do you write of using 1 tsp per gallon, saying it can be broken up as 1/3 tsp per gallon? Don't you end up giving about 3 times the normal amount of water?

No. We were talking about feeding the plant with every watering versus following the weekly feeding ammounts 3 times a week. You do that, you'll kill the plants. The mistake I think you might be making, is that when feeding with every watering, you are adding the same ammount of liquids as if you were giving nutes once a week and watering inbetween. If you don't lower the quantity of nutrients per application, you'll kill the plants.


If you're using 1/3 strength nutes over time, shouldn't a grower use 1/3 the water, to maintain the right ratio? Otherwise you give too much water, correct? And how is it that you arrive at such a bizarre example?
(The starter of this thread is using liters, by the way).
Because it makes folks like you go "huh...?". The numbers were unimportant in my example, yet the ratio was correct for the example I gave. Do some math and figure it out before you go looking like a fool trying to correct ANYONE. And...by the way...ratio's don't give a shit if you're using litres or quarts or teaspoons.


Rusty, you also wrote several days ago that someone should smell the bottoms of their pots to detect rootrot. Do you really think this is going to work?
Yup. As I'm not perfect...I've done it myself. If your soil smells "off" mold and/or rot are setting in. During the more humid days of summer, you can smell it when you open your growroom door.
Getting old watching you throw darts while having no clue how to play this flaming game. Since you have no personal experience, perhaps your opinions should be phrased in the form of questions, because you definatelly have no answers.


Chances are all they're going to smell is wet potting soil, if anything at all. Some people here say you're the guy to listen to, but I think many of the things you write do not make any sense.
Again...I'm not surprised. All you want to do is try and fight and find fault. But perhaps you should try and understand the concept(s) before trying to slam something you don't understand. Need calrification...? Just ask. But pretending you know better is folly.


I think you come here just to get your ego stroked. Whether you're right or wrong seems to be irrelevant to you. I've been reading this forum for about 8 years now and it's obvious that you're here just to get stroked.
Gee...I was just thinking the same thing about you...but likely I'll be here helping other med patients, while you're still learning how to split a weekly dosage into 3 times a week feedings. Stick with it, you might just get a clue...


Stinkyattic did the same thing but at least stinkyattic had a greater tendency to be right. But even when she was wrong, she would dig in her heels and fight back if anyone tried to correct her.
Sorry. I'm not here to fight with someone totally unprepared for the challenge. Come back when you have something interesting to add, or go get stinkyattic (she doesn't capitalize her 'S') to challenge for you. At least she has a solid knowledge base to work from. :jointsmile:

[bigsby]

Logic is a bitch, eh? We really do need to pour $$ into math and science education in the US.

You may not like the style b/c RT doesn't pull any punches but by my reading he was correct on every point...

[IntrepidSavage]

For suuuurrre!!! i was reading polishpollack's post like "whhhaaa??" The consequences of measurement errors are obviously larger when smaller quantities are involved - duh. it was a simple example. Poor 'ol US school system :(

Even if u believe differently - jeez - to attack senior members, the upper echelon of the cannabis forum microcosm lol..

Plants look pretty good to me nice grow :thumbsup:

[budbudding]

[quote=IntrepidSavage]For suuuurrre!!! i was reading polishpollack's post like "whhhaaa??" The consequences of measurement errors are obviously larger when smaller quantities are involved - duh. it was a simple example. Poor 'ol US school system :(

Even if u believe differently - jeez - to attack senior members, the upper echelon of the cannabis forum microcosm lol..

Plants look pretty good to me nice grow :thumbsup:

Thanx savage

I was told today that they look to streched to get a nice bit of bud ,. Now i dnt know if i have wasted my time ??? :/

[polishpollack]

I guess what gets me is that many times I read your diagnosis to a problem or explanation, and shake my head. You say that I have no personal experience but why do you draw this conclusion? You know nothing about me. Or I guess what you're trying to say is that you always think I'm wrong. If that's the case, then I have a question for you.

Why do you focus so much on pH and rootbound/rootrot when the starter of the thread hasn't given any mention that could indicate these conditions might exist? . Your explanation for every spot, every bent leaf, is usually one or more of those three things.

Your ruler analogy is correct, to a point. The accuracy is dependent mostly on how well the measuring device is used. (But I see what you're saying).
Datum is singular for data.
"Especially if one has a habit of doing heaping measurements 3 times a week rather than one level measurement, once a week."
I understand the percentages of smaller amounts, but I thought the above statement was strange. The starter of this thread stated he was only using Plagron soil, without adding ferts. There was no habit developed yet.
"If you don't lower the quantity of nutrients per application, you'll kill the plants."
My text says water, not nutes - 3 times the normal amount of water given three times a week doesn't strike me as smart. But I'm sure you'll just say that's another indication as to how stupid I am.
"All you want to do is try and fight and find fault."
Not true. This is the first time I've said anything of this nature. You have told others in the past that they're just guessing, but you are the greatest guesser here, in my opinion. Rusty has told people in these forums that there is no difference between organic and sythetic (chemical) fertilizer. This is not accurate. Organics are heavily based on carbon. Sythetics are made in a lab, low in carbon, and designed for rapid utilization by a cellular system. Organic ferts take longer to be utilized and require the presence of bacteria (in most cases) to break the fert down to a molecular level that can be absorbed by a plant. What people don't understand is anyone attacking a senior member. Period. I'm sorry but RT doesn't gain my respect. Not like he does from the rest of you anyway. I have yet to be impressed by RT and his "datum."
"likely I'll be here helping other med patients"
You can have it, but most aren't med patients.

From budbudding - "the upper echelon of the cannabis forum microcosm"
No, from the sewer....

[Rusty Trichome]

Unless I'm mistaken...You were the one bringing-up another post regarding a rootbound issue. Looking through my responses in this thread, you have your head up your ass.

Here and now, we were discussing feeding with every watering versus a weekly feeding, and I often offer the reader extra little tidbits (either directly or indirectly) associated with the topic. Overwatering and underwatering will affect your proper feeding on such an enviornmentally varriable schedule. A weekly feeding balances-out the high's and low's, and your watering will be flexible between the feedings. Only when need be.

But I do now have a beef with you and your info. For starters, all I've seen is you come in here and offer bogus advise about the temps, (of which I have extensive experience from living in the desert...you ought to read my thread on the subject sometime...) you bring-up other posts and accuse me of misdiagnosing or misleading or whatever, you slam stinkyattic (a moderator) who hasn't been here in a year, and for no factual reason, (perhaps it's just your twisted take on those with more experience and credibility than you...? :wtf: ) and you slam my advise as unreliable and offer no facts to back your accusations.

Did I get any of that wrong...? Because upon your next infraction, (flaming and trolling rules apply in these forums) I'll just report all this and let the mods figure it out. :thumbsup:

[budbudding]

Unless I'm mistaken...You were the one bringing-up another post regarding a rootbound issue. Looking through my responses in this thread, you have your head up your ass.

Here and now, we were discussing feeding with every watering versus a weekly feeding, and I often offer the reader extra little tidbits (either directly or indirectly) associated with the topic. Overwatering and underwatering will affect your proper feeding on such an enviornmentally varriable schedule. A weekly feeding balances-out the high's and low's, and your watering will be flexible between the feedings. Only when need be.

But I do now have a beef with you and your info. For starters, all I've seen is you come in here and offer bogus advise about the temps, (of which I have extensive experience from living in the desert...you ought to read my thread on the subject sometime...) you bring-up other posts and accuse me of misdiagnosing or misleading or whatever, you slam stinkyattic (a moderator) who hasn't been here in a year, and for no factual reason, (perhaps it's just your twisted take on those with more experience and credibility than you...? :wtf: ) and you slam my advise as unreliable and offer no facts to back your accusations.

Did I get any of that wrong...? Because upon your next infraction, (flaming and trolling rules apply in these forums) I'll just report all this and let the mods figure it out. :thumbsup:

Rusty may you awnser this question plz buddy?

I am growing jack herer and i have been vegging for 3 1/2 weeks , . I started them on flower yesterday ,.

The question is that they were 23 inches when i started flower and now their 27 inches , thats 4 inches in 48hrs, will they continue to grow at that rate? , if so how long for ?

[bigsby]

Expect them to grow like that for 3 - 5 weeks strain dependent, although it will slow over that period. I've never grown jack but it's definitely on my list!

[budbudding]

Expect them to grow like that for 3 - 5 weeks strain dependent, although it will slow over that period. I've never grown jack but it's definitely on my list!

FFS Your joking inya ?? the tips of the plants are 2ft away from the light and the light can only go up another foot ! , ho will i get round that one if they dont stop growing the way they are ??
Will i have to crop the tops?

[bigsby]

No joke. Refer to this thread for control methods. LST may be the way to go but get started today...

An Overview of Cannabis Training (ScrOG, SoG, FIM, Supercrop, LST, etc.)
(http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/239247/fpart/1/vc/1)

[Rusty Trichome]

Bigsby has ya on the right track. 2-4 weeks (or so) of PMS, then they'll start filling-in. (PMS - Pre Motherhood Stretch) Small growth spurts from there, but most of the action is early.
If you're running out of room, likely a good idea to start the training process now. Bad idea to wait till you run out of space.

Use a little care when bending. The branches are usually quite pliable, but use care and don't snap the branch(es). Also, don't tie the twist-tie too tightly around the branches. If too tight, it might cut into the stem as the plant continues to grow. Don't tie any branches from one plant to another plant. Don't untie it, or the plant will spring-back into vertical growth and the bend(s) will be minimal, but check the ties every week to make sure they aren't cutting into the branches.

[budbudding]

Bigsby has ya on the right track. 2-4 weeks (or so) of PMS, then they'll start filling-in. (PMS - Pre Motherhood Stretch) Small growth spurts from there, but most of the action is early.
If you're running out of room, likely a good idea to start the training process now. Bad idea to wait till you run out of space.

Use a little care when bending. The branches are usually quite pliable, but use care and don't snap the branch(es). Also, don't tie the twist-tie too tightly around the branches. If too tight, it might cut into the stem as the plant continues to grow. Don't tie any branches from one plant to another plant. Don't untie it, or the plant will spring-back into vertical growth and the bend(s) will be minimal, but check the ties every week to make sure they aren't cutting into the branches.

Cheers guys ,. :)

i have 6 hours b4 the lights go on , So i will take a picture of the whole thing then you should be able to see better ,

[polishpollack]

You analogy implies that a grower would use 1/3 fert strength for 3 weeks. This was absurd as no intelligent grower would do that. You use the word "heaping" implying an over-use of fert and no intelligent grower would do that either. But it's really a trifling matter.

"But I do now have a beef with you and your info. For starters, all I've seen is you come in here and offer bogus advise about the temps,"

It's not bogus advice. This plant's leaf tips will curl upward to increase transpiration when grow room temps are a little too warm, especially when there isn't enough airflow. I can't vouche for what happens with your grow as I have no idea.

"you bring-up other posts and accuse me of misdiagnosing or misleading or whatever,"

I'm sorry but that's exactly what you do. Your diagnosis for every bent leaf, every brown spot, is either pH or rootbound/rootrot.

"you slam stinkyattic (a moderator) who hasn't been here in a year"

Something interesting about stinkyattic is the fact that she used to ban you once in a while. When she was moderating this forum you would argue with her as you are with me. You were wrong but were stubborn about it and the only way she could get you to shut up was to ban you for a week. I remember that very well. Like I said earlier, I've been reading these forums for about 8 years now, not posting then but reading and I remember the fights you two got into. Yes, that's right everyone... your beloved Rusty Trichome used to get himself banned by a moderater because he wouldn't listen to her.


"and you slam my advise as unreliable and offer no facts to back your accusations."

Let's take rootrot for example. You say that you can smell rootrot when you first open your grow room door. There's a couple problems with this. First is that you say this is noticeable when it's summer, hot and humid. What you're referring to is the fact that Arizona and similar areas have only about ten percent humidity, but then in summer the days heat up to well over 100F and you'll get a monsoon rain. When the rain is done you get high humidity. This combination of high heat and moisture cause bacteria to grow like crazy. Odor-producing bacteria. This is the odor you smell combined with high heat and high humidity, this is bound to create odors. For you to be able to smell rotting roots that are buried in potting soil, you must have the nose of a drug-sniffing dog. I doubt that's the case which means it's not rootrot you're able to smell. How you come to the conclusion that you have rootrot when apparently your plants are fine, as you keep asserting (growing in desert heat and all), then I really doubt if you have root rot. Pretty simple.

You got upset saying that I was basically accusing you of poor math skills. It's your concept, you analogy, that's was the problem. I didn't say a word about your math. But you're confused. And your grammar is poor. But that's another trifling issue. Go ahead and complain to the mods. I'm finished with this forum for a while. Or maybe I'll just block your name. That's good too.

[bigsby]

We all know RT for who he is. I've battled him, too and yes, he is not above the occasional personal attack, but nor am I and neither are you. Frankly, I appreciate his straight up approach to discussion.

At the end of the day you are cluttering up someone else's grow log. Give it a rest now.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

We all know RT for who he is. I've battled him, too and yes, he is not above the occasional personal attack, but nor am I and neither are you. Frankly, I appreciate his straight up approach to discussion.

At the end of the day you are cluttering up someone else's grow log. Give it a rest now.

really? how much time does one devote to personal attacks and what purpose would it serve to become so intelligent that ignorance becomes a prize. im no master grower and im no crybaby either, correct me if you will, ill just get smarter either way:thumbsup: although rt has a way of keeping people on their toes, its just not my way of thinking. whateva:cool: all this aside i just dont have much time for all this endless pissing and moaning. shit there went another wasted minute of life...countdown to death.:(

[Rusty Trichome]

budbudding...like I mentioned in your rep, sorry.

PP:
Again...your info is wrong.
Granted, I've been banned a few times...all but one for fighting in the politics forum. One for growing forums, I believe. Never for ANY bad info.

Speaking of bad info, I've noticed that you pimp all sorts of info that you evidently don't research. For starters...wasn't it in this thread you were trying to get a member to not add calcium when adding phosphorous...because the phosphorous binds with the calcium and each are degraded...or something along those lines? Gee how do the hydro guy's add calcium in with their flowering nutes? And why are the major nutrient companies not aware of this incredible fact...? :wtf:
For your future reference, calcium binds over time with salts, period. Was going to let your shit slide, as it isn't all that damaging. (if you don't count the misleading of the membership unnecessarily) But if you'd like to push the issue, start a thread, I'll be there shortly. I'm pretty sure I remember that there were a few quotes of yours we can discuss. I'll dig some up if you'd like.

Your impression of me telling everyone they've got a ph issue or root rot is laughable, and again inaccurate. There may be spells of plant problems leaning that way, but never would I offer bogus advise, especially for those I'm here to help. (unike the occational member that blows through to start shit, parrot bad info, and leave) And usually it's me asking for the OP to fill-out the troubleshooting form rather than do any guessing, unlike others that like to play guessing games with other's meds.
Do I get a satisfaction when I help others...? You bet. But I hardly think it makes me a "somebody". So in my book, your 'stroking my ego' statement is again, garbage. Would I prefer not to have guy's like you blowing smoke up everyone's ass rather than someone that knows their limitations and doesn't try to bullshit their way to an imagined 'higher' standing on CanCom? Hardly.

And gee...thanks for diagnosing the moldy smell issues for me, but I was refering to the used pots of soil in my growroom, not my flowering rootballs. You see, I flower in an outdoor shed that doubles as my garden storage area. Once the pot's aren't sitting under the lights and the fan's aren't hitting 'em, the soil can stay damp for a week or two. Again, your insight is lacking, yet shows a preponderance twords making shit up as you go along.

If you can't do math, I guess we have nothing to discuss on that level.
But to re-state what I said...If the instructions are 1 tsp per gallon of water per week, in order to feed with every watering (likely a maximum of 3 times weekly during the winter) you would have to split the 1 tsp per week into 3 equal parts, per gallon. (1/3 tsp per gallon per feeding) Twas an example of the differences between weekly feeding and feeding with every watering. Nothing more, nothing less. Did I say feeding with every watering is no good? I don't think so. But I did add the reason(s) I don't do it myself. Same with most of the responses I offer in here.

Start another thread if you'd like to continue this. :jointsmile:

[bigsby]

really? how much time does one devote to personal attacks and what purpose would it serve to become so intelligent that ignorance becomes a prize. im no master grower and im no crybaby either, correct me if you will, ill just get smarter either way:thumbsup: although rt has a way of keeping people on their toes, its just not my way of thinking. whateva:cool: all this aside i just dont have much time for all this endless pissing and moaning. shit there went another wasted minute of life...countdown to death.:(

Amazing and hilarious. You just question the rational and intelligence of engaging in personal attacks but in the next breath you did just what you were railing against. Well done. I'm very impressed.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

Amazing and hilarious. You just question the rational and intelligence of engaging in personal attacks but in the next breath you did just what you were railing against. Well done. I'm very impressed.

i wasnt railing to anyone as there many personalties here. i just dont see the need for relentless insults without guidance. and surely the need for standards is not without merit......:D i just did again didnt i:thumbsup:

[bigsby]

Yeah, we are pretty much in agreement. I was just pointing out that personal attacks do happen. I certainly wasn't advocating their use. OK, now can this grower have his thread back?! ;)

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

Yeah, we are pretty much in agreement. I was just pointing out that personal attacks do happen. I certainly wasn't advocating their use. OK, now can this grower have his thread back?! ;)

heath ledger as the joker "why so serious?": i was just makin funnies cause that how i survive in a inadequate world of greedy morons. :jointsmile: