Think about what you are doing to yourself

[MakeSense]

Look, I may come off as a jerk on this one. But all of you MMCs need to think about exactly what you are doing to yourselves when it comes to pricing.
If one guy sells ounces for $280.00 then the next guy will sell it for $270, then 250 and so on until it is $100.00 or less.. You might say "great for patients" I would argue NO. What you are broaching on is crashing your own market. There is a cost to doing business, there is a value for the experience.
If the market ceases to be viable, than patients will suffer with products that cut corners.
Just because you are growing your own now, and sitting on piles of inventory, do not devalue the entire market, or you will suffer the consequences... That is all... you may tell me how wrong I am in 5, 4, 3,....

[BackWoodDrifter]

Look, I may come off as a jerk on this one. But all of you MMCs need to think about exactly what you are doing to yourselves when it comes to pricing.
If one guy sells ounces for $280.00 then the next guy will sell it for $270, then 250 and so on until it is $100.00 or less.. You might say "great for patients" I would argue NO. What you are broaching on is crashing your own market. There is a cost to doing business, there is a value for the experience.
If the market cesses to be viable, than patients will suffer with products that cut corners.
Just because you are growing your own now, and sitting on piles of inventory, do not devalue the entire market, or you will suffer the consequences... That is all... you may tell me how wrong I am in 5, 4, 3,....

Dont be knowin much bout yur business but be soundin like yur upset bout it hope yual be feelin better pilgrem and figurn out what yual need to be figurn. Good luck and grow safe.

BWD

[Lynhal]

Look, I may come off as a jerk on this one. But all of you MMCs need to think about exactly what you are doing to yourselves when it comes to pricing.
If one guy sells ounces for $280.00 then the next guy will sell it for $270, then 250 and so on until it is $100.00 or less.. You might say "great for patients" I would argue NO. What you are broaching on is crashing your own market. There is a cost to doing business, there is a value for the experience.
If the market ceases to be viable, than patients will suffer with products that cut corners.
Just because you are growing your own now, and sitting on piles of inventory, do not devalue the entire market, or you will suffer the consequences... That is all... you may tell me how wrong I am in 5, 4, 3,....

You may be right, or you may be wrong. I charge 0 to my two patients I choose to keep in the meds they need to make it farther along on this planet.
Others choose to charge up the ying yang. To each his or her own. I feel you do what is true in your heart and mind. All the rest is just gravy.

[BackWoodDrifter]

You may be right, or you may be wrong. I charge 0 to my two patients I choose to keep in the meds they need to make it farther along on this planet.
Others choose to charge up the ying yang. To each his or her own. I feel you do what is true in your heart and mind. All the rest is just gravy.

:thumbsup:

[canaguy27]

Look, I may come off as a jerk on this one. But all of you MMCs need to think about exactly what you are doing to yourselves when it comes to pricing.

Do you know how many places are hurting for business? 1 sale is better than none.

[HighPopalorum]

*shrug*

I think the heavy competition on price has been great for patients. $250 is the new $350.

[MakeSense]

Do you know how many places are hurting for business? 1 sale is better than none.

This is in regards to MMC only. If your a caregiver than more power. Actually more power either way. I am just saying that continually charging less for a comodity has only one result.
I may be wrong... Just sayin'

[SoCoMMJ]

Supply vs Demand, you just can't influence it from the outside. It is what it is.

If the prices settle at $100 or even $50 an oz, then that's what it is worth. If you can't grow a little bush for a couple months and then sell it for $250 - $500 then something is wrong.

We just need to get this crapload of regulatory expense out of the game.

[emilya]

Supply vs Demand, you just can't influence it from the outside. It is what it is.

If the prices settle at $100 or even $50 an oz, then that's what it is worth. If you can't grow a little bush for a couple months and then sell it for $250 - $500 then something is wrong.

We just need to get this crapload of regulatory expense out of the game.

oooo... econ talk!

The problem is that we are not in a perfect market. Only in a few states we see a partial relaxation of the laws, but yet it is still a essentially a black market item. Even in those states, only a few have cards, the rest have to rely on the black market to get their recreational relief.

An equilibrium price will never be reached in such a situation. Sellers will continue to want to charge more for their products and when the demand supports it, they will raise prices. This is called supply side economics, and it is how markets work. Suppliers set the prices, consumers determine demand.

If everyone growing was only doing so to supply patients, and they had no contact with the black market... yes, it would be time to start looking for a universal price. However, as long as there is a guy down the street willing to pay $3000 for a LB... there will always be a strong upward pressure on the equilibrium price. Government controls and prohibition always increase prices and create a shortage in the market, and this provides an increasing upward price pressure. Want the prices to come down? Get rid of the prohibition and get the government out of the equation. Legalize.

Emmie the economist

[MakeSense]

oooo... econ talk!

The problem is that we are not in a perfect market. Only in a few states we see a partial relaxation of the laws, but yet it is still a essentially a black market item. Even in those states, only a few have cards, the rest have to rely on the black market to get their recreational relief.

An equilibrium price will never be reached in such a situation. Sellers will continue to want to charge more for their products and when the demand supports it, they will raise prices. This is called supply side economics, and it is how markets work. Suppliers set the prices, consumers determine demand.

If everyone growing was only doing so to supply patients, and they had no contact with the black market... yes, it would be time to start looking for a universal price. However, as long as there is a guy down the street willing to pay $3000 for a LB... there will always be a strong upward pressure on the equilibrium price. Government controls and prohibition always increase prices and create a shortage in the market, and this provides an increasing upward price pressure. Want the prices to come down? Get rid of the prohibition and get the government out of the equation. Legalize.

Emmie the economist

Very good.
I do think that all things considered regulation and taxation will occur in increasing measure.
I for one would rather pay taxes on bud than taxes on prisons. Not to mention that
as soon as it is really really accepted, it will be a short time before it all turns into a factory like Bweiser, or Mrlboro, Pfzer, etc... (forgot to metion the old
Molson for my brother up north)
So the question is will the little man get ahead on this one???
If so, How?

Demand certainly will not go away. But the ability and urge to supply may.
Why are there brewerys?
I could brew at home.
What is the cost to Produce a Scotch?
I could'nt tell you but it is far less than I am willing to pay :)

Anyway, I am just glad you guys are'nt bashing me for mentioning it.
:thumbsup:

[emilya]

Very good.
I do think that all things considered regulation and taxation will occur in increasing measure.
I for one would rather pay taxes on bud than taxes on prisons. Not to mention that
as soon as it is really really accepted, it will be a short time before it all turns into a factory like Bweiser, or Mrlboro, Pfzer, etc...
So the question is will the little man get ahead on this one???
If so, How?

Demand certainly will not go away. But the ability and urge to supply may.
Why are there brewerys?
I could brew at home.
What is the cost to Produce a Scotch?
I could'nt tell you but it is far less than I am willing to pay :)

Anyway, I am just glad you guys are'nt bashing me for mentioning it.
:thumbsup:

The other problem here is that those who are involved in the black market side of this thing are making lots of money. They don't want legalization. They will continue to try to make the idea of legalized pot equate in the everyday person's mind to crime and addiction. It's good for business.

If we ever get to a point where government decides to put an end to all this nonsense and make it legal, you are right... the huge companies like Phillip Morris and Pfizer will jump in and try to corner the market. Again, its just good business. However, like anything done in mass production, quality suffers. Strains will be bred for high production and things such as taste and quality of stone will be secondary concerns.

The little guy/gal will flourish in this market much as micro-breweries and home distilleries do now. They provide a connoisseurs market where quality is paramount, and quantity is the secondary concern. Micro-grows because of this and their rarity will claim top dollars. The providers we have now in a few states will not be able to compete with the prices the big companies will charge, and without a specialty product, they will not be viable ongoing business concerns. There will always be those who provide just for themselves and a few patients, but these will not be profit centers.

So... some like the status quo for this reason. They will doggedly hang on to what we have now as long as they can. Legalization will be a good thing, but it is not going to happen without a huge fight... and this fight will come not just from the government, but from growers.

Emmie

[Dorje113]

Weed prices have been artificially inflated due to prohibition, however weed retailed for $100 a quarter when I moved here in '92. Since then, housing prices have gone up 3-4x and the cost of living in general has about doubled but real wages have barely gone up... but the price of weed has stayed the same so realistically prices have dropped quite a bit relative to any other commodity.

How much further will it drop? It depends on regulations. If agricultural land was zoned in, greenhouses would make indoor/warehouse growing a thing of the past. The sun is capable of providing better yields AND quality vs. a bunch of 1000W HPS lights in a warehouse. I could see wholesale pricing dropping under $1k/lb pretty easy in this situation.

But because of the ridiculous zoning regs, having to grow in a warehouse will keep wholesale pricing around $1.5-2k. The costs of growing in a warehouse vary a lot. Some spend a lot on Advanced Nutrients, I grow organic, reuse my soil and spend maybe $10-15 per lb of weed grown on organic fertilizers. It actually costs far more in rent, utilities, licensing, etc. to have a grow than it cost to actually grow and process the weed.

[denverbear]

I have a good friend who had to relocate to Cali. for the last year, and talk to him 5/6 times a week...when he first got out there he paid 350.00 for an oz
and the last 3/4 months he has been getting very top quality for 150.00 oz. yes it probably is black market but even the mmc out there have dropped thier prices he tells me as he has a friend who has a card and goes to the mmc's out there and he is paying about 200.00 oz there.
what will happen here is anyone's guess.

[dkmcsm]

Pricing is not the problem, it can't be controlled and it's illegal in this country anyway....not that it doesn't happen all the time but that's another subject. The problem has already been stated above: Is the government willing to allow it to be grown and sold here or would they rather make it so difficult and costly that that the black market is favorable and people chose to operate outside the law. Every state that has allowed some level of legalization has been forced to do so by Initiatives or constitutional changes. The legislators will NOT do this on their own. They need to get the overwhelming message that the will of the people is to have this legalized. Prohibition didn't work, this isn't either. My point: stay focused on initiatives, constitutional votes, bills that are being passed, etc until the legislators get the message.
If/when it's legal you can be sure that RJ Reynolds will be selling it for less than anything you see now...and of course it will be crap weed too.

[HighPopalorum]

I think it interesting that there has been so much price fluidity during the past 16 months. As Dorje observed, the $100 price point hasn't changed in twenty years. Two years ago if someone had asked me what I though pot would cost in 2011, I would have said $50/100/375. I'm surprised that such a small and tightly regulated industry has pushed prices down so quickly and so far.

[copobo]

Imagine this-

A smalltime caregiver serves himself and 5 patients and he does a good job and has some overage. To legally sell that overage, he HAS to sell to one of his patients. So somehow, he needs to convince THEM to pay his electricity bill, nute bill, dirt, coco, fans, and so on. How can he convince one of those 5 to take more than they need, so he can pay the bills? By lowering the price to a level that it makes it possible for them to be able to do something with it. I'm hearing 150 as a common price now.

It's what the poorly thought out regs do. Instead of figuring out a caregiver to mmc path for overage, adding it to the above ground, taxed system, they've diverted all this overage to.... where?

it's the sad lesson in economics that is pushing tax dollars away, makes businesses and caregivers, and state tax coffers pay the price.

[TheReleafCenter]

It's overproduction, pure and simple. Everyone assumed that they'd be able to sell what they grew.

[stuartambient]

It's overproduction, pure and simple. Everyone assumed that they'd be able to sell what they grew.

So expect some price adjustments as mmc's sort out their model ?

SA

[aikidoisbudo]

he tells me as he has a friend who has a card and goes to the mmc's out there and he is paying about 200.00 oz there.
damn, got an address or the dispensary name? would love to visit!

[aikidoisbudo]

Pricing is not the problem, it can't be controlled and it's illegal in this country anyway....not that it doesn't happen all the time but that's another subject. The problem has already been stated above: Is the government willing to allow it to be grown and sold here or would they rather make it so difficult and costly that that the black market is favorable and people chose to operate outside the law. Every state that has allowed some level of legalization has been forced to do so by Initiatives or constitutional changes. The legislators will NOT do this on their own. They need to get the overwhelming message that the will of the people is to have this legalized. Prohibition didn't work, this isn't either. My point: stay focused on initiatives, constitutional votes, bills that are being passed, etc until the legislators get the message.
If/when it's legal you can be sure that RJ Reynolds will be selling it for less than anything you see now...and of course it will be crap weed too.
exactly!

[neversummer]

It's overproduction, pure and simple. Everyone assumed that they'd be able to sell what they grew.

I have no problems getting rid of my Meds. No one thinks the depression has anything to do with prices dropping. I think the shitty economy and the semi-legalization of MMM has knocked the price down. I'm happy that it's not $50 an eighth because that was never a reasonable price. I don't think we need a fixed price, I like capitalism. Before 1284 the MMM business was a truly free market economy. Now it's getting fixed again. Prices have to drop in this economy, everything else has.

[TheReleafCenter]

So expect some price adjustments as mmc's sort out their model ?

SA

And as competition decreases. There are several larger MMC's that have the funding to operate at a loss for a certain period of time. Look at the centers that filed for a type 3 license... they're ready to take on as many patients as they can fit in the door.

I never see bud prices rising again. When you factor in all of the traditional retail that a large center can make money on (edibles, hash, grow supplies, etc), they'll hit about $35 an eighth and stay there.

And I don't think the larger economic struggles play too much of a part in pricing. Not a lot of centers have a viable retail operation, so they're trying to make their money on wholesale. When you have 50 to 100 shops trying to do this, they have to find a way to make their product more attractive. Price is the easiest way to accomplish this. Actually hiring and paying good sales people will eventually replace this practice.

But I'm hardly Nostradamus when it comes to this business. Just some thoughts.

[Dietblonde]

And as competition decreases. There are several larger MMC's that have the funding to operate at a loss for a certain period of time. Look at the centers that filed for a type 3 license... they're ready to take on as many patients as they can fit in the door.

I never see bud prices rising again. When you factor in all of the traditional retail that a large center can make money on (edibles, hash, grow supplies, etc), they'll hit about $35 an eighth and stay there.

And I don't think the larger economic struggles play too much of a part in pricing. Not a lot of centers have a viable retail operation, so they're trying to make their money on wholesale. When you have 50 to 100 shops trying to do this, they have to find a way to make their product more attractive. Price is the easiest way to accomplish this. Actually hiring and paying good sales people will eventually replace this practice.

But I'm hardly Nostradamus when it comes to this business. Just some thoughts.

Well, I think you have some good insight on the matter. I think that there is a surplus in the market right now and places have to find creative ways to move product before its shelf-life ends.

The spot that I work at sells what we consider premium bud at $150/oz because the market/area we are located is surrounded by lower-income patients, to be perfectly honest. Dropping our prices helped us not have to wholesale anymore, which had become increasingly difficult in the market. When I worked in Cherry Creek, we sold premium for $280 and we did fine. So I think location is a big deal in this industry.

For some shops, low prices are the only way to survive in this industry. And that's pretty much all the input I have...

[MakeSense]

And as competition decreases. There are several larger MMC's that have the funding to operate at a loss for a certain period of time. Look at the centers that filed for a type 3 license... they're ready to take on as many patients as they can fit in the door.



Sam Walton would be proud.