Clone issues!

[CapNTinHat]

Hello, I am new to the forum.

I am a new MMJ patient and new medical farmer. I have as of yet only semi-successfully pulled off two plants (semi in that we had some issues during flowering, they turned yellow about a month or so away from harvest and the fan leaves all fell off within 2-3 weeks of yellowing which = really low yields and probably lesser-than-highest quality)

Now here we are, about a month later. We have 19 clones from a strain called Julius Caesar, which we have under compound flor. lighting, 24 hrs. They are in a humidity dome and we used Olivia's to root them. As of yet, there is no overgrowing roots that I can see that would indicate that it is time to transplant, and the clones aren't doing so hot.

Two major issues: 1, red spider mites. It's not an "infestation" at this point, but they are definantly there. The only thing I had to use was stylet oil, which is less toxic. But still not good to be spraying on sensitive clones!
2, General shriveling. 2/3's of the clones are 25-50% shriveled, leaves turning brown, dying! I have no idea what the issue is!

Help us! I don't wanna fuck up my babies!!

[jaydee84]

humm have you been giving them fertz/nuits..etc its not good to with young clones and did u use any rooting gel or similar
ive seen clones just shrivel up and die when given fertz so early they cant take it just use ph'ed water for first couple of weeks
is what i would of done
if they not dead already and you did use fertz of some sort i would try flush them and try save them

it really hurts to see dieing mj plants
good luck tho mate

[canniwhatsis]

where did you get the clones? From a dispensary or did you cut em yourself from a mother?

Ok, you used olivias, what medium? Rockwool, rapid rooters, soil, aeroponic cloner....... What's your water PH? if your using rockwool or rooter plugs is there just enough water to keep them moist but not soaking wet? What's your temps? How much light are you using on them?


Some wilting and dying is a bit normal as the plant pulls nutrients from the leaves in it's efforts to form roots I've certainly had batches of clones that looked like ass but were 100% success and grew fine once put into soil.

[CapNTinHat]

The clones were clipped from a friend's motherplant.
The medium is rapid rooter, and the pH is approximately 6 (only have color-changing pH kit, no digital tester). They aren't soaking wet, they are watered only when the cubes are (fairly) dry.

I scrapped a few of the smaller, sicker, mold-stricken ones and checked for rooting. They all lacked roots, excepting one which had only a single rootlet. They have been in for 2 weeks.


We're using a 2-foot 24watt T5 HO 6500K blue fixture with 4 bulbs. As of now, the clones are probably 18 inches from the light.
We also have some seedlings in the same box (we're cloning and doing seedlings in a big cedar armoire.), is that ok to do?



*sigh*, they make it seem so easy when you first start out! Guess that's the old learning curve.

[gypski]

The clones were clipped from a friend's motherplant.
The medium is rapid rooter, and the pH is approximately 6 (only have color-changing pH kit, no digital tester). They aren't soaking wet, they are watered only when the cubes are (fairly) dry.

I scrapped a few of the smaller, sicker, mold-stricken ones and checked for rooting. They all lacked roots, excepting one which had only a single rootlet. They have been in for 2 weeks.


We're using a 2-foot 24watt T5 HO 6500K blue fixture with 4 bulbs. As of now, the clones are probably 18 inches from the light.
We also have some seedlings in the same box (we're cloning and doing seedlings in a big cedar armoire.), is that ok to do?



*sigh*, they make it seem so easy when you first start out! Guess that's the old learning curve.

I lost one that when I looked it had one 1/2" root but it didn't take. Rockwool cube. Have you tried the dome? 99% success ain't bad. And I have 9 under a two bulb 24" doing fine with two seedlings. Move the light to at least 6" or somewhat closer. I have it close to mine right now within 2". :thumbsup:

[tikiroom]

If the cuttings have not rooted yet that is way too much light.
You need just the bare minimum light when rooting clones. This is because they need to focus on root development.
As stated above, a humidity dome does wonders also.

[gypski]

I went back and saw your original post. Mites don't help clones or adults. that's issue #1. Start there first. :thumbsup:

[CapNTinHat]

I have them in a humidity dome! [QUOTE]Julius Caesar, which we have under compound flor. lighting, 24 hrs. They are in a humidity dome and we used Olivia's to root them/QUOTE]

And they were looking ill before I noticed the mites, but that could be it right there.

And for the lighting issue: move them closer or farther away?! There were conflicting replies, could someone clear this up? Is there are better timing that 24 hrs. for rooting?

EDIT: also, is stylet oil good for getting rid of mites? If not, what should I use that won't kill the clones? Should I let them get a little bigger before I do that, or now?

[jaydee84]

to much light when cloning is not always desirable let them root proply before lots of lighting....you can also use red light for promoting root growth

[canniwhatsis]

Move the lights AWAY!!!!! Or diffuse them! I'm running the same (I think) lights above my cloner,....

I use a bamboo serving mat as a diffuser over the top of my humidity dome,... that way I can keep my light close to the top and keep the temps up where they need to be but not soo much light hitting the clones.


NEEM oil is what you want to spray on your plants to kill the mites.

1tsp of neem to a quart of warm water and a couple drops (5-10) of some dish soap (Blue Dawn works, but I preffer Dr.Bronner's Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps: FAQs: FAQs (http://www.drbronner.com/faqs_main.html) )

Do this weekly all the way until week 2 of flower and you're not gonna see another mite! ;)

[CapNTinHat]

move the lights approx how far? I have them at 2 and a half feet maybe, I'll have to readjust the light to get farther away.

They've been in more than two weeks, with no rooting on the ones that I scrapped; should we re-apply the rooting gel? Or will putting them in the proper situation just get things moving?

Neem oil, got it

[CapNTinHat]

I put a single sheet of paper towel on top of the dome, will this be enough diffusion? It seems pretty shady in there now...

[weeddaddy50]

You have lots of issues. Was the mother plant in the veg stage or flower stage. If flower stage it could take up to 5 weeks for them to root properly.

I have successfully taken clones from flowering plants...but on the cloning machine is take 4 weeks or more.

Now if they were taken from a vegging plant....and you have them in a tray with a humidity dome make sure the rock wool is sitting on top of something...some people use a towl....some use peralite....just make sure they are not sitting in water.

Now Have your done clones before????

It not real difficult....but you must follow some steps....did you use a clean scoupal or very sharp knife? when you dipped them in the jell....how long did they stay in the jell? I usually let them sit in the jell for 5 minutes or untill I have about 8 of them ready to put on the cloning machine....Who took the cuttings?....how did they travel from your buddies house to your house...did you put them in water....because they will dry out very fast....

I guess I need more information.

[gypski]

move the lights approx how far? I have them at 2 and a half feet maybe, I'll have to readjust the light to get farther away.

They've been in more than two weeks, with no rooting on the ones that I scrapped; should we re-apply the rooting gel? Or will putting them in the proper situation just get things moving?

Neem oil, got it


Move it down to 8". that's where I kept mine under my 46 to root them after having them about 12" for a week. :twocents:

[CapNTinHat]

The mother was in veg, I'm pretty certain. As for transport, homie lived next door (now evicted), so we just took the dome over in a black bag. We used scissors to get them, the gel was deposited in the hole of the rapidrooter cube, and the cuttings were stuck in. The gel was visible for a week.

They were in one of those fit-in cube/soil holders, but since I cleaned the whole thing out I just put them in the tray... yr saying I should make a perlite layer on the bottom and put the cubes on top of that? Or a towel at the bottom? and soak this in water?

I'm a little confused.


that's where I kept mine under my 46 to root them after having them about 12" for a week.

I also have no idea what this means!

[Agoblue97]

alright I have 2 suggestions as I'm fairly new to cloning.

1. Apply the gel directly to the stem of the clone, do not just put it in the hole of the rapid rooters.

2. I suggest making a aeroponic cloner. I just built 1 for about $45. I use 5mL of Clonex per gal of water. I kept the cloner under my 400w MH at about 18-24 inches. I had 100% rate of rooting although it took me about 2 1/2 weeks to get them to root.

These are just suggestions. MJ seems pretty easy to get to root, just follow the instructions on whatever cloning gel/solution you use. I believe most of your trouble probably comes from not directly applying your gel to the plants. I am a true believer in the homemade aero cloners that are out there (they worked for me):thumbsup::thumbsup:

[canniwhatsis]

the gel was deposited in the hole of the rapidrooter cube, and the cuttings were stuck in. The gel was visible for a week.

Ohhhhhhh,..... I've tried that,... don't work well. I lost 75% of that batch :( And the ones that survived were stunted for about a month.


All I can say is Good Luck. For the most part it sounds like you have a good chance at it, but there's more than one fatal flaw.

[weeddaddy50]

your loss is going to 50 to 75%.....here is what I would do.....

Keep those going and Start.....some new ones......my experience with clones is just keep starting new ones....you will have some die...some will be stunted...and some will lag....but you will also have some super keepers...and those are the ones you want to put all that work into in Veg and then into flower..........I know I am not alone when I say this........you want to work with the strongest.....healthy.....clones you can get....you have to cull the others.


Also....when you get cuttings or clones from someone....make yourself a dip with neam or Azol and water solution....and dip them while you are cloning.

That is how I start......even though you may think there are no...mites or mold.....just to be safe I set them(dunk) in this solution....then co the cutting to proper size and or node region with a clean scoupal...then set in the jell until I have 8 or 10 ready to set.

since you are using a dome and rock wool you do have to mist them once to twice a day....I am using a home made cloning machine...and that step is not needed.

Good Luck

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

The clones were clipped from a friend's motherplant.
The medium is rapid rooter, and the pH is approximately 6 (only have color-changing pH kit, no digital tester). They aren't soaking wet, they are watered only when the cubes are (fairly) dry.

I scrapped a few of the smaller, sicker, mold-stricken ones and checked for rooting. They all lacked roots, excepting one which had only a single rootlet. They have been in for 2 weeks.


We're using a 2-foot 24watt T5 HO 6500K blue fixture with 4 bulbs. As of now, the clones are probably 18 inches from the light.
We also have some seedlings in the same box (we're cloning and doing seedlings in a big cedar armoire.), is that ok to do?



*sigh*, they make it seem so easy when you first start out! Guess that's the old learning curve.

your cube should be moist all the time otherwise roots wont move through the cube. temperatures that are cooler will slow rooting time as will too much heat. after week 1 you should have a little nute/water at the bottom of the dome so when roots start looking for feed there is something to eat. 20 w of light is plenty so cover with opaque plastic or set them away from direct light, direct light induces photosynthesis which at this point is not what you want. you want to induce root growth by denying photosynthesis thus less light. the issues you speak of are related to insufficient rooting time which created mold, mildew and im guessing brown mushy leaves. even clones need air...open up the chamber twice a day for a few minutes then foiliar feed with a light balanced nute solution. wet the cubes and plant every time not too much though. moisture should build up over time and create a feeding pool below for your soon to be roots. make sure your chamber is free of easy air flow as this will dry things out. unless your going to sit there 24/7 and spray them, an amicable cause:thumbsup: the amoire is fine but it may be creating a humidity issue and/or heat issue. do you leave doors open except with certain company? wait no more than three weeks for roots after that its done. 10 days is ideal.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

just remember once clones are tranplsnted they may still need a humidity dome for a week or two until their roots set in.

[CapNTinHat]

I have no experience with foliar feeding! I'll research it but is there a recipie or process that anyone would suggest?


Thanks for all this help, whatever clones survive will probably be due to yall!!


20 w of light is plenty so cover with opaque plastic
Like a piece of white trashbag?

The doors had not been left open throughout the day except for when I was messing with them, but has been since yesterday. Most of the time we can leave it open , but we also sleep in that room!

[CapNTinHat]

What about mold? there is fuzzy gray mold on prolly 50% of the clones, is that the 50% I can expect to lose? Or is there something to be done about it?

[Rusty Trichome]

When using the cloning gels and powders, a little dab will do ya. 'Glopping' it on will prevent moisture uptake from the stem, making it impossible for the plant to uptake moisture. (the rooting hormone creates a barrier) Filling a hole with the stuff and sticking the clone in it is worse than 'glopping', and the hormone needs to be making direct contact with the plant material you're trying to get to form roots. (it changes the cell structure to make roots)

The idea is to get the plant to realize it needs roots. Foliar feeding and misting the plants inhibits this. When under a dome, mist the dome surface and the sides oif the pots, but not the plants themselves. Remove the dome at least once daily to give fresh air and humidity. This prevents mold, too.

Never let the soil or plug dry until you've seen roots. Conversely...don't keep the soil or plug saturated.

Keep the clones warm, but not hot. If normal light distance is 4 inches, set the lights at 8 inches till rooted.

No nutrients till a cuple weeks after roots are noticed.

Leaves on the clones can yellow and die-off as the nutrients are sucked-out used for other parts of the plant. Although this is common, the goal is to have no die-off at all. (this comes with experience)

10 day old clones. Fully rooted, just transplanted into 1 gallon pots a couple days ago:

[CapNTinHat]

^^^

ok so, 75% of the clones have severe mold growth. I decided to just experiment and see if consistent use of stylet oil (the only thing we have at this point to protect the plants, also low on funds) would help with this. I would say it has slowed the growth and perhaps prevented the spread of it to the mold-free clones (like 3 of them), but it will not rid the afflicted clones probably due to spores.

Question: should I cull the afflicted ones? They pose an infection risk, right? I only have room for 1 dome in the space I am working with (as long as I have seedlings going in there too).

Also, is there something to be done for the unafflicted ones, as far as getting rooting going? Is diffusion necessary? Is 3 layers of paper towel enough?

How can I calculate lighting for the light that I have??


Moreover, is there a chart that shows how much lighting a cannabis plant needs for each stage of growth somewhere around here?? That would be *extremely* helpful

[Rusty Trichome]

Personal opinion...mold does a body harm. Anything that grows mold in your house should be removed. Especially if there are medical conditions it may adversely affect. Never smoke mold, either.

Next time go easy with the humidity, :thumbsup: .

If you meant you were using CFL's (23 watt compact fluorescent spiral bulbs) maximim effective distance is about 6 inches. For clones, about 9-10 inches till rooted.

There's an indoor lighting section around here somewhere...

Paper towels...?

[canniwhatsis]

Paper towels...?

Sorry,... My idea, Diffuse the lighting over the clones. I thought he had more light similar to what I use over my cloner. (96w 4 tube 2' T-5)

I have a bamboo placemat (yeah for serving dinner on) over the dome to diffuse the light but still transfer the heat into the environment since I don't have an appropriate heating pad to put under the tray. My light is about 3/4" off the mat and keeps everything about right.... (well a shitload better than my first run anyway! :o )