Cars and Cannabis - Is it safe? Could it be legal?

[DenverRelief]

HB1024 will go before congress this year. With it comes discussion of finding a way to determine a legal limit to how medicated a patient may be while driving. Much the same way that patrol officers calculate blood alcohol levels for drivers who have been drinking. The only question is, how would they do that? If someone has medicated within the last 24 hours, significant amounts of THC and other cannabinoids will remain in the blood stream, so even a blood test wont be able to decisively decide whether a patient was over some limit decided to be too "high" to safely drive.

I've posted links to several studies on our blog, Cars and Cannabis (http://bit.ly/fQP0yW), that suggest it isn't all that dangerous to be behind the wheel after consuming cannabis, but how can and officer determine how much is too much, or is it an all or nothing deal?


What do you think?

[Zedleppelin]

Just like alcohol and other drugs once its out of your bloodstream you are no longer high. As far as being safe, its a hell of a lot safer than driving drunk and I feel its ok for me to do, but I'm not sure if I want a car full of 18 year old kids driving high next to me on the highway.

[jimmy8778]

it should be a secondary offense to be driving under the influence of MJ. Like a lot of laws with cell phones, if it seems to be causing issues, such as weaving, or speeding, or driving bad, which makes you stand out anyways, you get charged with another ticket for that. though it isnt often that people get pulled over for these things while smoking anyways, so they are really just looking for a way to keep people down who are trying to get what they want. think of the children.

[HighPopalorum]

I don't think it's safe. I think it should continue to be illegal. I know smoking MJ makes me a worse driver: I forget turns, miss exits, react much later to traffic control signals, and am more easily distracted by food, music, scenery, electronics etc. It also makes me very sleepy when I'm tired, accentuating the risk. I'm in my 30s, with a high tolerance; I expect the symptoms are stronger among teens who have lower tolerances, less experience controlling dosage and lower driving skills.

[ds0110]

Its already illegal to damage someone elses property or person with a vehicle, no additional laws are needed.

If this is illegal, they need to make car stereos, cell phones, old drivers and drive thru food illegal as well. There should be an IV you have to bleed in before the car will start.....We need to have "Driving while distracted" laws so people will no longer be distracted....

Seriously though, they need to actually do some studies on this before making laws to restrict what people do. Id say I drive even better when high, my focus is elevated, there is no road rage when high....it makes me a defensive driver and therefore a safer driver. This reeks of LEO just wanting a way to make money off the mj population.

[bikeTripper]

Because of the way THC is metabolized plus differing tolerances among different users the only way to find out if you're too high to drive would be to test for actual impairment of skills like reflex reaction times, etc.

I bet if they did this a lot of people who aren't high would also fail the test due to legal prescription drugs, stress, illness and a bunch of other causes like just plain old not having their shit together.

If THC were a big problem with drivers we'd already know it. The scale of the costs of driving while under the influence of alcohol were (and are) obvious from the scale of the carnage. Where is the rash of pot related accidents among millions of smokers over the last few decades? Show me any valid study that demonstrates a danger greater than cell phones and many other distractions we take for granted.

Yes, one could make a pretty valid argument that people shouldn't drive stoned. And I could probably build a pretty good counter that the real problem with driving is aggression, and maybe pot would chill people out enough to actually drive safer. The truth is there are a lot of people who probably shouldn't be allowed to drive at all. :mad:

[copobo]

"If THC were a big problem with drivers we'd already know it."

BINGO.

Certainly some people shouldn't drive on one glass of wine or a benadryl or a puff of weed, but there is no way to legislate the limit relative to any standard of impairment.

[SoCoMMJ]

"If THC were a big problem with drivers we'd already know it."

BINGO.

Certainly some people shouldn't drive on one glass of wine or a benadryl or a puff of weed, but there is no way to legislate the limit relative to any standard of impairment.

Agreed.

The test they use will measure the THC-COOH active in the bloodstream. It's different than the THC-A that shows up for a month on drug tests. 5 nanograms per ML is the standard that they are going for.

I looked at some studies recently. There is a huge variance between individuals on THC tolerance. Some can be way past 5 ng and be straight as an arrow.

Wonder if they do a field sobriety test first or just smell smoke and haul you to draw blood.

Will be interesting how this mess shakes out. But given the current state of our leadership, I have no doubt that it will be really screwed up.

[MakeSense]

Depends on who might pull you over:
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[senorx12562]

Based on my utterly non-scientific observation of those around me, I'm certain my driving skills 2 years post-mortem will rival those of most of the presumably sober morons I see on the roads, especially the ones that have a cell phone permanently attached to their body. That said, I think the law should address lousy driving, especially when it hurts someone or causes property damage, not some unscientific and overbroad calculation that "concentration x of thc metabolites = lousy driving" whether it really does or not in a given instance. As an aside, a couple hits of good "medicine," some good tunes, and a sportbike up in the canyons is pretty close to nirvana. Haven't wrecked yet in 30 years. Just lucky I guess, huh? Oh, by the way, hipop, maybe driving while stoned should just be illegal for you, eh?

[Zedleppelin]

Why is everyone always going off on HighPopalorum? I don't agree with a lot of his views but at least he's not a complete ass like coloradogrower420 or whatever his name was, am I missing something?

[HighPopalorum]

A reasonable compromise would be to adopt the per se standard only for drivers under 21. New drivers are subject to stricter sobriety requirements as well as added restrictions on mobile phone use.

[senorx12562]

Why is everyone always going off on HighPopalorum? I don't agree with a lot of his views but at least he's not a complete ass like coloradogrower420 or whatever his name was, am I missing something?
I wasn't "going off" on him. He said himself that he was a shitty driver when high. I was being funny (or not). Kind of ironic that your avatar is a dead comedian.

[MakeSense]

In all seriousness. I think that it warrants a scientific study of the affects
on a large pool to guage what the law should be.
I for one would not be happy if someone stoned out of their mind hurt my family because of their carelessness.
But I think it is pretty clear that Cannabis use is not the same as alchohol use.

[Zedleppelin]

I wasn't "going off" on him. He said himself that he was a shitty driver when high. I was being funny (or not). Kind of ironic that your avatar is a dead comedian.


Dats true, he did say he was a shitty driver when high :smokebong:

Sorry man, I was just having a middle of the night philosophical moment, don't stop being funny ;)

[senorx12562]

In all seriousness. I think that it warrants a scientific study of the affects
on a large pool to guage what the law should be.
I for one would not be happy if someone stoned out of their mind hurt my family because of their carelessness.
But I think it is pretty clear that Cannabis use is not the same as alchohol use.
You, on the other hand, live up to your name.

[DenverRelief]

There simply isn't a meaningful way for an officer to determine on the spot whether someone is "high" or not.

[DenverRelief]

In all seriousness. I think that it warrants a scientific study of the affects
on a large pool to guage what the law should be.
I for one would not be happy if someone stoned out of their mind hurt my family because of their carelessness.
But I think it is pretty clear that Cannabis use is not the same as alchohol use.

The studies that I posted did just that, especially the one paid for by taxes done by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

You probably don't want to read the whole thing, but their basic conclusion was that drivers under the influence of THC might "wander" in the lane back and forth a little more, but they tended to compensate for the effects of the drug by driving more cautiously.

Sounds alright to me.

[MakeSense]

The studies that I posted did just that, especially the one paid for by taxes done by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

You probably don't want to read the whole thing, but their basic conclusion was that drivers under the influence of THC might "wander" in the lane back and forth a little more, but they tended to compensate for the effects of the drug by driving more cautiously.

Sounds alright to me.

That being the case, I would think that the court system will be tested on the issue at some point. However, we all know that their is a point at which
someone is stoned and they should not be driving.

[senorx12562]

That being the case, I would think that the court system will be tested on the issue at some point. However, we all know that their is a point at which
someone is stoned and they should not be driving.
That point probably exists for tired people as well. And don't even get me started on stupid people.

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

...However, we all know that their is a point at which someone is stoned and they should not be driving.

Sure but aren't there already impaired driving laws?
Same thing could happen if someone drinks too much cough syrup or other medications. There are plenty of people who drive while taking prescribed medications. Do we need a law banning each other separately?