Ok, I expected problems!

[Bloads]

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)

First time grower
Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) Sunburst 250W with a 250 WMH
.2) Distance from tops? roughly 2 feet
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) enclosed reflector
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? yes
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? I have a circulation fan and leave my closet cracked.
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule?
bulb is 250W, idk the kelvin ratings and i have it on a 18/6 for veg.
Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) Honestly do not know the name brand. It was some organic stuff from home depot that had the closest ph to 6 or so. I use some bat guano as food. Didn't deef the plants the first month of transplant. After the first month I started feeding them once at the most.
.8) Size of container. 1 gallon
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings?
I purchased the clones at a despencory with peat pucks.


Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? I have been using arrowhead (dont own anything PH detector related)
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) see above
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...)
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? Usually water a pint every other day per plant.
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? unknown
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? unknown
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? I do not.

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? my closet is 2 1/2 feet deep and 4 feet wide
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? The temps generally stay lower, around 70 I do not have a thermomiter, but I know thats where it stays. lights off, it gets maybe 5-7 degrees cooler. The sun doesnt heat up my room too much.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom?
Yea, I have killed about 4 or 5 very small black flies. The clones acually had spider mites when I purchased them from the despencory, I just had not known it at the time. I have been rinsing the leaves every other day (in the night cycle) and than spraying them twice a week with some organic insecticide.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) I have 2 plants, pot of gold and LA Conf.
24) From seeds or clones? Clones, it's my first time grow... I had no idea what to look for on plants for signs of bad health :/
25) Is this an autoflower strain? I don't believe so.


Pretty much, I am geussing it is the spider mites that are getting to my plants. I have tried 2 sprays, and the amount of mites has greatly reduced since I began spraying. But I am seeing my plants being affected more and more each day by these mites, and if not the mites.... than it is from something els. I have had these clones since november 15th. which makes it somewhere around 7-8 weeks of veg so far.

One thing I was contimplating investing in was a grow tent, I had very little income which is why I do not have any PH detector or a 30 dollar bag of potting soil. Posting pics asap.

[Bloads]

There are the large spots and than the tiny ones that you can see pretty well in the last pic. I have more pics if needed. The spide rmites use to move around alot, and had webs about 2 weeks ago. Like i said in my last post, the mites have improved alot. But they just do not go away completely, and I am seeing these guys go downhill even though the mites are improving.

[Dutch Pimp]

this might help...:stoned:...Text (http://cannabis.com/growing/pests-chimera-s-journal-on-spider-mites.html)

[polishpollack]

You have a nute deficiency. That golden-yellow spotting that becomes systemic (thoughout the entire plant) is most likely magnesium deficiency. I think your pots are too small at this stage and you should replant into in bigger containers, 5 gallon buckets are good for this stage. If you have a hydroponic/indoor grow shop around you, I'd spend a little and get some Foxfarm ocean forest potting soil or the Roots brand. You can get something similar at Walmart or hardware store but those two soils are designed more for indoor growing. The bigger problem I think can be solved with giving the right kind of fert. You don't mention much in the way of adding fertilizer and your growing in coco, which probably doesn't have any added ferts at all, so you get to do this as the grower. I usually advocate getting some Dynagrow fertilizer as it has pretty all the micronutrients that plants need, including magnesium, which I think those need. If it really were bugs I don't think you'd see such widespread spotting. Since it's all over the plant I'm thinking you have a nute deficiency. Transplant first, then use about 1/2 teaspoon of the fert in a gallon of water and give that. Wait a couple of days to see what the response is. Since you'd be giving another fert, you can stop the bat guano or whatever else you have. I don't think guano has all the nutes that plants require anyway. The drawbacks to Dynagrow is that for soil, you don't need much of it so you end up with alot left over. This fert has phosphorus and calcium which are attracted to each other and over time, will bind to one another and sink to the bottom of the container. Thus it does not have a long shelf life. But it's a good fert that will give good results if used right. The contents and directions are on the back of the bottle. You can use a different fert if you want, but you need mg in it to solve this problem.

[Bloads]

Thanks for the response. I had started to think I had a nute deffeciency. Before I decided to start my first crop I bought a book called the medical marijuana growers bible or something to that affect which explained nute deffeciencies. I'll post back in about 4-5 days with how the plants are doing!

[Bloads]

So it has been 5 days since I transfered the gals from the 1 gallon pots to the 5 gallon pots. I did one tsp of Cal mag per gallon for the first water, and 3 days later I did 2 tsps of cal mag per gallon. I'm geussing I dont need to give them anymore, but even on the leafs that have come up in the last 2 days have the yellow on the sides. I have seen a huge difference in the color, there is now a nice green instead of a bunch of tiny yellow dots. I understand that the damage that has been done will stay there, but why are the sides of the leafs still turning yellow :rasta:
I was going to start giving them veg fert (grow big) in about 2 weeks. I just read that you dont want to fert for sometime after you transplant...

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

So it has been 5 days since I transfered the gals from the 1 gallon pots to the 5 gallon pots. I did one tsp of Cal mag per gallon for the first water, and 3 days later I did 2 tsps of cal mag per gallon. I'm geussing I dont need to give them anymore, but even on the leafs that have come up in the last 2 days have the yellow on the sides. I have seen a huge difference in the color, there is now a nice green instead of a bunch of tiny yellow dots. I understand that the damage that has been done will stay there, but why are the sides of the leafs still turning yellow :rasta:
I was going to start giving them veg fert (grow big) in about 2 weeks. I just read that you dont want to fert for sometime after you transplant...

those leaves will continue their path and die. feed in two weeks with half strength, increase as your root base increases. how do you know, you ask? feel the weight of your planter(b4 and after water), when you start watering more your root base is getting bigger. if using ro water you should use a cal/mag product throughout your feeding schedule. ease off of the calmag a bit, you can get toxicity.

[polishpollack]

Here's the way I see it. I don't know what the instructions are on the back of the container for calmag, but you want to follow those directions. It sounds like 3 tsps in just a few days is alot, maybe too much. I've never heard of plants suffering from too much of either cal or mg, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Usually when you have lush green leaves with some tips turning yellow/brown, they have too much fert and you're getting fert burn. So the question is, what soil did you put them in, and have you given any other fert?
At this point I would leave them alone and see what happens. If the browning of the leaves worsens, then you have too much fert in the soil and I'd probably give a plain water flush, then let the soil dry out some. If you use a fert like ocean forest, it probably has quite a bit of fert in it, so since you've put them in large enough containers, what you can do is just leave them be until the start to show something other than green growth. Toward the end of flowering and their life cycle, usually about 4-5 weeks into flower, the leaves will start to turn yellow as the plant begins to die. Give nothing during this period except water, to flush out ferts from the plant and let it die. Then cut her down after about a week or so of this.
Do I have this right, that you've given nothing other than the cal mag? I think you've given too much actually, so I'd probably give a bit of a flush and then leave them be and see what happens. Meded saying "feed in two weeks" is not a bad suggestion but depending on what soil you're using, you need to be careful how much, if anything, you give at this stage as it looks like from the leaf tip burn, there's fert in that already. But that's just how things look in the photos and from what you've written. If you buy good potting soil, it can be difficult to screw up a grow (unless you really don't know what you're doing and never ask advice).
Oh shit, I just re-read your older post and saw you've used bat guano in the past. If this was retained by the roots and then put in good potting soil, this could create an over-fert condition. A flush is probably called for, about a gallon of water per pot, if the guano was retained. Or you could simply do nothing and just let it ride to see if it gets worse. If so, then flush. Also, it's a good idea to wear sunglasses when working with metal halide lighting because they put out hard UV rays which are bad for your eyes.

[Bloads]

Here's the way I see it. I don't know what the instructions are on the back of the container for calmag, but you want to follow those directions. Usually when you have lush green leaves with some tips turning yellow/brown, they have too much fert and you're getting fert burn.
The minimum amount to add of cal-mag was 1 tsp per gallon, and for "accelerated response" it said to add 2 tsp per gallon. I think that problem has been solved. But another one came up which I will adress with the next quote

So the question is, what soil did you put them in, and have you given any other fert?
I put them in the soil you recomennded, FoxFarm Ocean Forest potting soil.
And I did not add any other nutes or fert which was acually pretty cheap at the hydrostore :thumbsup:

Oh shit, I just re-read your older post and saw you've used bat guano in the past. If this was retained by the roots and then put in good potting soil, this could create an over-fert condition. A flush is probably called for, about a gallon of water per pot, if the guano was retained. Or you could simply do nothing and just let it ride to see if it gets worse. If so, then flush. Also, it's a good idea to wear sunglasses when working with metal halide lighting because they put out hard UV rays which are bad for your eyes.
Yeah I used bat guano. I asked somebody at a small hydro store and he recommended that (before I looked on forums). I stopped using that when I found this website. Thanks for the heads up with the MH bulb, I had no idea. I think I will flush them, I see really nice green which I havnt seen in a long time, but like you said... the burn. I know its not heat stress or that they are too close to the bulb. So it has to be the fert.

If this problem continues, would it be worth starting from scratch with the proper ferts and soil? I have had these thingsgoing for 7-8 weeks in VEG.... thats terrible :( I wish I had pics of how bad they were when I got them from the despencory.

[bigsby]

Let's view this as a learning experience. You can save these plants pretty easily and you have a bunch of time invested. Why give up now?!

Flushing isn't going to clear out the bat guano. But you still have options so long as you didn't over do it with the guano. What size are those pot they are in? It looks like they are 1 gallon or perhaps 3 gallon pots. Best case - those are 1 gallon pots (it's hard to tell from the pics). Re-pot them into 3 gallon pots or 5 gallon pots if they are currently in 3 gallon pots. Use your FF soil for the re-pot. Then start a careful watering regime - no nutes, 1/8 strength, 1/4 strength, etc. They will respond. There is nothing wrong with bat guano if used sparingly/carefully/correctly.

Just dial it back a bit. Those are nice looking plants. They are well established and can easily recover. Be patient. You should also consider soliciting advice in the Plant Problems forum. Some really crackers in there who can offer more directed advice.

EDIT: Just read through more of the thread... I see they are in 1 gallon pots. Re-pot into 3 gallon pots and you should be in good shape!

[Bloads]

Let's view this as a learning experience. You can save these plants pretty easily and you have a bunch of time invested. Why give up now?!
:thumbsup: The gals look better than when i first got them, as sad as that is!


What size are those pot they are in? It looks like they are 1 gallon or perhaps 3 gallon pots. Best case - those are 1 gallon pots (it's hard to tell from the pics). Re-pot them into 3 gallon pots or 5 gallon pots if they are currently in 3 gallon pots. Use your FF soil for the re-pot. Then start a careful watering regime - no nutes, 1/8 strength, 1/4 strength, etc. They will respond. There is nothing wrong with bat guano if used sparingly/carefully/correctly.
The plants were transfered from 1 gallon pots into 5 gallon pots on Jan 14th or 15th. The soil was FF :jointsmile:

Just dial it back a bit. Those are nice looking plants. They are well established and can easily recover. Be patient. You should also consider soliciting advice in the Plant Problems forum. Some really crackers in there who can offer more directed advice.

EDIT: Just read through more of the thread... I see they are in 1 gallon pots. Re-pot into 3 gallon pots and you should be in good shape!

Once I get these gals back in shape, when could I push them to flowering?

[bigsby]

You can flip them into flower at any point. Some people will flower a seedling. It depends on your height constraints and strain - stavia's stretch more than indicas but expect the plant to at least double.

I suggest going straight to flower as soon as the patient recovers.

[Bloads]

So I figure I'd put up some pics of how my 2 gals are doing now. The pot of gold is showing some issues which I will get to later. For now, I will update my trouble shooting forum as things have changed. I put them into flowering Feb 4th.
Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. 250W HPS
.2) Distance from tops? 18-20 inches
.3) Reflector type? bat wing
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? yesh
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? circulation fan, door cracked
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 250W, 12/12 since I am in flowering

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil? fox farms ocean forest potting soil
.8) Size of container. 3 gallon
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? yup

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting?I use to use bottled spring water (ph about 7.0-7.3) but I switched to bottled drinking water that has a ph of about 6.0-6.4 (the reason I say 'about' is because I do not have a digital detector, I use drops added to a vial with water in it)
12) Method of adjusting water ph. no method
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. Tiger bloom (gave the plants the first feeding of flowering last night, was battling a nute problem for some time. The Big blooms NPK is 2-8-4
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? 2 waterings between feedings, about 2/3 a gallon for my large plant and 1/2 gallon my smaller one. It takes more sometimes, I go by the drainage and how heavy the pot is.
15) Any additives or tea's? I had a MG problem for a while, so I added Cal Mag (I stopped)
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate?
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? ingoing is 6.0(ish) outgoing is the same. let me add that I only checked this once in the last month, I just bought the ph testing kit 2 days ago.
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? No :/

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors?Indoor
20) What size of closet, room or hut?Closet
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? A stable 65-70 degrees during the day, and about 60 at night.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? Not anymore..... knock on wood.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?)Pot Of Gold and LA Con. hybrid and indica.
24) From seeds or clones?Clones
25) Is this an autoflower strain?
no

My pot of gold has grown to be over 3 feet tall. Unfortunitly I am noticing some wilting and a few other problems.
When I installed the HPS bulb, the tops of my Pot Of Gold were about 17 inches away from the light. I checked on my plants the next moring and they had grown too close to the light :/

The tops have very slight burnt, I am just noticing wilting elswhere on the plant as well.The second picture shows the wilting the best, you can see from the center of the frame and up is wilting. And the bottom left has a 'claw' affect and slight wilt.


The last pic is my LA con. I have no idea what that is.