Emmies Grow Log - White Widow

[emilya]

Grow Log (pics coming when I get the ability to post them)

12/06 - Started germination

12/09 - 10 5/5 seeds germinated and transplanted to 6â?� pots. Light set to 24/0. Light is bare minimum at this point, 4â?� shop light with standard grow bulbs from hardware store. Ordered $500 of new lights online.

12/13 â?? got programmable thermostat and light timer today, now set to 77° day, 70° night. Also set light timer for 18/6 and added a fan to the closet to evenly distribute heat and slightly stress stems. Read with interest about early sexing using red streaks and dots on trunksâ?¦ based on this very early sexing, labeling plants as 3 female, 1 male, 1 possibly dead just to see how accurate this method is.

More as things develop...

Emmie

12/14 (day 5) â?? Fertilized with half small scoop MG in ¾ gallon water that has been run through carbon filter and set out for 24 hours. Still waiting on a PH meter to make sure water is in range. Working on plans for secondary dedicated grow box with veg and flower area. Plans now are to use this box for near constant production from the veg area and to establish a SCRog grow in Flowering area with 40,000 Lumens, and use the existing closet as a secondary site where we will use the 20,000 lumen light to support taller and bushier grows of 2 or 3 plants. Lights showed up today and have installed the SunBlaze 44 with the blue bulbs over the first grow. This is approximately 10x more light than we had yesterday with 20,000 lumens compared to the 1900 lumen grow bulbs that we had before. Expecting plants to now stop stretching and start to bush out noticeably.

[Dutch Pimp]

I love the white widow.:lovestruck:...I don't feed them the first 3 weeks...except for a little, very weak root stimulator.

Enjoy Your Grow...:thumbsup:

[AngelFish]

Read with interest about early sexing using red streaks and dots on trunksâ?¦ based on this very early sexing, labeling plants as 3 female, 1 male, 1 possibly dead just to see how accurate this method is.



Hey Emmie, can you post a link to those pages/threads? I'd like more info on this as well :)

[emilya]

Hey Emmie, can you post a link to those pages/threads? I'd like more info on this as well :)

I found it :) It was posted by WashougalWonder :
http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-techniques/181139-early-female-id.html#post2068667

I guess it is possible to tell from the look of the seeds too according to another post.
Seed pic (http://boards.cannabis.com/attachments/indoor-growing/259720d1290290558-sexing-method-fact-fiction-identifying-female-cannabis-seeds.jpg)

I have put tag markers in my pots to indicate sex using the first method... we shall see. If the theory holds based on plants 5 days old I have 3 girls and a guy. I am skeptical or at least do not trust what my eyes think they are seeing. I need to see nanners.

Emmie

[emilya]

12/15 (day 6) â?? 1201am lights out, largest plant at 2â?�. I will check for overnight growth in dark. Soil was dry to the touch so I watered them at bed time. Not sure of the optimum time for watering in day/night cycleâ?¦ hoping someone will tell me soon after reading this. Noticed that root structure must be filling in as watering did not disrupt seedlings as much as it has been doingâ?¦ they seem more stable. 5th plant did not break out of seed yet today. I will be convinced as of tomorrow that it is indeed a murdered MJP. My fault entirelyâ?¦ now I know which way to point sprouts after germination. :(

A quick word about my soil is needed as I forgot to mention it earlier. I am using Miracle Grow Potting Mix-with MicroMax, in a 4 part to 1 part Pearlite and 1 part Vermiculite mixture. The soil mixture is very springy to the touch and seems to retain water well, yet still allowing a good flow through.

7:30am â?? Lights have been on for 1.5 hours. Plants look vigorous (except for the dead one) and about 1/8 inch growth (stretching) on the largest plant overnight in the dark. Second set of leaves is now apparent on 2 of them. I am expecting some good development on the secondary leaves today under the new lights and have informed the plants that tomorrow is the 1 week mark and that it is time to get hopping. ( I heard it was good to talk to your plants and gently let them know what is expected of them) :thumbsup:

p.s. camera is on the blink, cell phone camera is just not going to cut it. I will hit Wal-Mart soon and remedy this so I can amaze you with my bad photography skills.

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

Be very careful you don't give too many nutes if in MG. White Widow will burn very easily.

The second reference about sexing by seed, I have been testing over the last 6-9 months. So far, round is female. I am talking feminized seeds and regular seeds. Every feminized seed that I look at appears to have the round feature too. My eyes are old and I am often too lazy to go find the loupe to see better tho.

I will watch to see how the sexing went. Makes me proud to see someone trying this on their own. Cool beans. :jointsmile:

[Vancefish]

With little seedlings, most people just mist the plant and soil surface to keep it damp. However after growing some roots, most people go with weight. If the pot feels really light it's time to water.

I had a Grand daddy purple which was highly unstable indoors (did OK outside). This plants self pollinated seeds were thrown out. However it also got my G13xAfgani. Yesterday while trimming I found 25 seeds in about an ounce. Being pollinated by another girl these should all be Feminized!:thumbsup:

All 25 seeds ARE rounder then many I've seen in my life. They also ALL have the indent/Volcano tip!

Question comes down to will ANY actually be worth growing when "DAD"(a female plant) was SO unstable?? So, I'll keep them, but for now I will not sprout them.

[emilya]

Read with interest about early sexing using red streaks and dots on trunksâ?¦ based on this very early sexing, labeling plants as 3 female, 1 male, 1 possibly dead just to see how accurate this method is.


Ok... this is going to get interesting now. I got a camera... and it is clear looking at these pictures that the lens can see things that are not quite so apparent to our human eyes. The theory is that we can tell the sex already... at day 6 by looking for the red indicators on the trunk. Theory tells us that we should have 50% males and 50% females. According to what we are seeing in these pictures, this is exactly what I have here with my 4 surviving babies. These have been tagged and time will tell if we were indeed able to sex these plants at this incredibly early age. Look very closely at the trunks.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6577-runt-pack-red-spots-female.jpg"Runt of the pack - red spots - FEMALE"

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6576-no-red-spots-trunk-male.jpg "No red spots - MALE"

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6575-note-red-spots-female.jpg "Note the Red Spots - FEMALE"

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6578-another-male.jpg "Another MALE"

Emmie

[pipefitter]

Hi Emmie,

Interesting. Both the attention to detail and the fact that you growing WW. Never heard anything about red/non red spots before. I'll will be intersted to see how well this works for you. Nice post and pics. Good Luck!

[emilya]

12/16 (day 7) â?? OKâ?¦ it has been a week now and things are looking pretty good. Not a lot of vertical growth now under the big T5 lights but as expected seeing widening and elongation of existing leaf structures and further development on the 3rd set of leaves.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6579-day7-1-top-view-pub.jpg

I learned a quick lesson about using nutrients with this Miracle Grow soil. I am seeing a slight Nutrient Burn in #2 right at the end of the leaf tip. Flushing isnâ??t going to help a lot with this time release nutrient soil so I am just giving pure water now and things appear to be ok in the other 3 and not getting worse on #2. I will wait till week 3 to hit them with some Molasses water and will try Nutrients again after a flush right before flowering. Also got my PH tester yesterday and the water after sitting out overnight to remove the chlorine is right at 6.4-6.5. This makes me very happy and I will be checking every other day to make sure that this situation holds.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6580-day7-2-slight-nutrient-burn-pub.jpg

Emmie

[emilya]

I will watch to see how the sexing went. Makes me proud to see someone trying this on their own.

I am curious if you agree with my conclusions on the sex based on these pictures WW. Please feel free to correct or criticize... I am here to learn and wish to use this grow log to give support to your theory.

Please check the album for some more views on all 4 stem systems with better labeling than was used in the first attempt.

Emmie's Album (http://boards.cannabis.com/album.php?albumid=955)

Emmie

[AngelFish]

Hey I just realized my grow is only like 5 days ahead of yours!!

I used MG too and I think I have the same nutrient burn. Its like a yellow spotting?

Its awesome watching our grows side by side.

Best of luck! :thumbsup:

[emilya]

Hey I just realized my grow is only like 5 days ahead of yours!!

I used MG too and I think I have the same nutrient burn. Its like a yellow spotting?

Its awesome watching our grows side by side.

Best of luck! :thumbsup:

This is going to be fun then! No, i don't have yellow spotting... look in that last picture i posted. Down at the very tip of the leaf at the bottom of the picture you see a brown tip. That was enough to convince me that the advice I was getting about not adding nutes to MG were right on. I have seen no other signs of damage from my mistake, but then again I didn't hit it very hard with the nutes either, and it was also the MG 24-8-16 All purpose mix too.. so probably pretty close to what was already in that soil.

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

24-8-16....wow that is hotter than chicken poop. Holey moley.

Do you by chance have someplace that sells Fox Farm Products? Look into the Ocean Forest. By using that I have virtually eliminated giving nutes by repotting on a 4 week schedule. I only give specific nutes to specific plants after the 21 day of flower. WW in particular needs very little it burns very easily.

As far as the identification(s). Looking in your album the only one I am positive on is the first pic. Some of the ones you labeled male could possibly be female, you may try topping them after the 3rd internode which I find tends to promote feminism. Also, pictures just don't cut it as much as being able to rotate the little pot. The dark reddish ones are in my mind positively female. There is one that is very green and I am pretty sure that one is male....

First pic in the post..."runt" of the pack, may indeed be your best plant out of the bunch, I believe female The other three I just am not positive on, I think due to the not in real life, the third I would lean female.

So part of what I am saying is this is still too much in theory, the only one I am positive on if one can be is the first pic both in the album and here.

Don't go out and buy a bunch of fertilizer....See if you can get Fox Farm stuff where you are. A bag of OF costs me about $14 here in WA. Well worth the money for the results I get. Then if you feel you must fertilize they have a whole line that works in unison with the potting mixes they have.

Angelfish Sounds like it to me, same advice to you.

[Rusty Trichome]

Is you soil the 3 month formula or the 6 month?

Miracle grow 6 month has an initial nitrogen release upon first waterings. It's a little 'kick-start' but is a tad strong for seedlings. This should last the plant about two weeks before the next release, which I believe is an even release (somewhat) of all 3 nutrients. (N-P-K)

If growing a sensitive strain, an initial soil flush of 3 times the volume of the pot (with properly ph'd water) before planting can help flush the initial nitrogen. Let the soil dry-out a bit before using it for the seedlings. Over-saturated soil can kill seedlings.

Don't overwater. Keep a fan on the little darlings. The breeze will help minimize the stretch. If they get too lanky, they'll need supports, or you can look-up the "Seedling Stretch Fix" thread I did a while back. (burying the plant up to it's cotyledons, which are the initial round leaves)

1/8 tsp MG All Purpose per gallon of water, once a week, maximum. Remember, the soil has nutrients already.

A couple weeks before your switch to 12/12 lighting, do your final transplant. This will help burn-off some of that nitrogen before the switch, and the stretch will be less severe.

Although MG is a solid soil, there are better ones out there. MG liquids are soild, but are a bit severe and offer no flexibility. Start looking at what others are having success with, and start planning on purchasing those products as soon as possible. (soils, nutrients, unsulfered molasses...)

Good luck. :thumbsup:

[emilya]

Is you soil the 3 month formula or the 6 month?

Although MG is a solid soil, there are better ones out there. MG liquids are soild, but are a bit severe and offer no flexibility. Start looking at what others are having success with, and start planning on purchasing those products as soon as possible. (soils, nutrients, unsulfered molasses...): :postgood:

I have the 6 month soil Rusty. It does seem to have a bit of an initial kick to it, and I have definitely seen that the plants are right on the edge of having too much of a nutrient kick in the beginning. Anything extra is way too much!




Do you by chance have someplace that sells Fox Farm Products? Look into the Ocean Forest.

I will look into that for the next grow... sounds a lot more stable than using such a volatile product such as MG.



As far as the identification(s). Looking in your album the only one I am positive on is the first pic. There is one that is very green and I am pretty sure that one is male....
:lovestruck:

As I stare at the little babies I feel the same way about this if I am understanding your theory correctly. The runt is clearly showing an almost uniformly red trunk, clearly female. The top grower, featured below in an 8th day picture is all green... clearly male. The other two, I go back and forth on... there is some red in the trunks with large streches of green, one more than the other. Those two could go either way with my guess being the one with the most coloring turning out to be female. If this grow ends up being 1 boy with 3 girls, you are going to see me do a happy dance!


http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6610-1st-grow-alpha-plant-8th-day-pub.jpg


Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

After the first couple days, they can change. Males do tend to stretch more after the first set of true leaves than the females do....Not talking cotyledons, true leaves. They have a long way to go before really needing to be concerned about them for sex, for now just growing health plants without 'over loving' them.

[TANKJR]

Hey Emmie! I use MG soil too and it does present it's own problems, but as you get used to it, it works ok....I have never been able to find FF in my area of the world, or the nutes that go with it, so I have no experience with it....however, I have been using MG for a few years now and here's some things I've noticed...

1) It's too high a ph coming out of the bag...I use dolomite lime, water, and time to overcome this...I mix my soils up nearly a month before I will use them...
2) it does have too much N for seedlings and again, I water and use lime and time to overcome this, or go buy a seedling mix that's not so hot.
3) you use the exact same mix I do and adding ANY nutes is not needed for quite awhile, and if your transplanting regularly, you may not need to add any at all except in certain individual plants, but as soon as mine have roots down I add in small amounts until I "read" that the plants have all they can possibly use and if I add any more, I will have problems... I push the envelope to the max...you'll get this the more you grow and "read" your plants. I also use a seedling mix not nearly as hot for clones and seedlings.
4) WW, who is indeed a wonder, is right, we use a hot hot mix, so don't use that cute little green spoon MG gives you, but use MUCH smaller amounts if adding anything at all...as you gain experience, you'll get a good feel for how much and when to add what.
5) I'm lazy, and don't want to water as often as I should, so I modify the MG stuff with pearlite, vermiculite, and dolomite lime, until I get it like I want it to be...LOL! That means I don't have to water but every 3 days or so...being the lazy azz I am!

I hope this helps!

[WashougalWonder]

Hey Emmie! I use MG soil too and it does present it's own problems, but as you get used to it, it works ok....I have never been able to find FF in my area of the world, or the nutes that go with it, so I have no experience with it....however, I have been using MG for a few years now and here's some things I've noticed...

1) It's too high a ph coming out of the bag...I use dolomite lime, water, and time to overcome this...I mix my soils up nearly a month before I will use them...
2) it does have too much N for seedlings and again, I water and use lime and time to overcome this, or go buy a seedling mix that's not so hot.
3) you use the exact same mix I do and adding ANY nutes is not needed for quite awhile, and if your transplanting regularly, you may not need to add any at all except in certain individual plants, but as soon as mine have roots down I add in small amounts until I "read" that the plants have all they can possibly use and if I add any more, I will have problems... I push the envelope to the max...you'll get this the more you grow and "read" your plants. I also use a seedling mix not nearly as hot for clones and seedlings.
4) WW, who is indeed a wonder, is right, we use a hot hot mix, so don't use that cute little green spoon MG gives you, but use MUCH smaller amounts if adding anything at all...as you gain experience, you'll get a good feel for how much and when to add what.
5) I'm lazy, and don't want to water as often as I should, so I modify the MG stuff with pearlite, vermiculite, and dolomite lime, until I get it like I want it to be...LOL! That means I don't have to water but every 3 days or so...being the lazy azz I am!

I hope this helps!

I hope everyone using MG reads this. It is the first post I have ever seen with actual knowledge of how to use MG if you don't have a choice. Awesome post Tank:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Rusty Trichome]

4) WW, who is indeed a wonder, is right, we use a hot hot mix, so don't use that cute little green spoon MG gives you, but use MUCH smaller amounts if adding anything at all...as you gain experience, you'll get a good feel for how much and when to add what
And if you use MG All Purpose long enough, you'll read the directions which say the dilution rate is for a 10 day to 2 week period, not weekly. (cut indicated dilution rate in half for weekly feedings, and go from there)

[emilya]

12/19 (day 10) - Today is a good day. My plants have taught me something about myself today. It is amazing what one can learn if they take the time, and listen.

Anyway, on to the story. It seems that #3 had some problems standing up. Each watering would almost tilt her over and I was really worried about it until I read one of the other logs dealing with White Widows and saw that they had the same problem at this stage. I have bent a solid piece of wire into a little crutch to help her stand up and she seems to like it.

Next time, I will not start my babies in a large pot... Will start in cups, let the roots develop and then transplant. Looking at transplanting several times on the next grow to help develop a better root system as well as to clear the soil with new. I also will not be starting the next batch in Miracle Grow... save this for when the babies can handle it.

By the way, I numbered the plants in order from largest to smallest and so far this seems to be holding true. I am noticing that the smaller ones are trying to catch up a bit now as #1 has stopped the rapid vertical growth and started to get wider and throw out more leaves. The 6 leaves that were barely nubs yesterday have become substantial and I see another set starting to come in today. The new lights are working... the plants have really started to tighten up now that they are under the T5 bulbs as compared to reaching for that silly shop light that they started life with. It is very apparent from this growth pattern just how important the quality of the light source is to these babies. I can't wait to see how they respond in the new grow box with the T5x8 array!

Here are the pictures!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6622-number-1-growing-like-weed.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6621-number-2-slow-but-sturdy.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6620-number-3-weed-her-crutch.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6619-number-4-runt-catching-up.jpg

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

You can also add a little more topsoil to hold it up.

They will love being 4" from the T5 light for a few days, that is what they need.

[emilya]

Two of my babies are showing an odd problem and I am not sure what it is telling me to do. It is #1 and the runt, #4. That is the best grower and the slowest grower, although the runt may have been a runt because of a j-root and not because of its genetics.

The cotyledons on both of these plants, have one of them showing a yellowing... sort of all through the middle of the leaf and not at the edges or the tips. The runt actually was showing a bit of this yellowing all over, hard to notice except under the bright lights... but I did notice it.

I purposely waited on watering last night because I just wasn't sure if it was time, and by noon today I determined that I did finally need to water everyone as there was no trace of moisture in the soil and the babies were starting to look a bit limp to me. In other words, I am pretty sure that I am not over watering.

Looking at other grow logs, I don't see any reference to the cotyledons falling off, but when I look at growing forums of other plants, I see people ask about this and the answer seems to be that this is normal... and WHEN they actually fall off, it is time to do the first feeding. Could it be that I have actually created soil using MG that has a good enough flow through that I have rinsed a lot of the nitrogen out of it and this is true? Or, is this indicating that it is coming up to the time to think about transplanting the babies into larger pots soon? They are already in 6" pots and I thought that I would have till about the 3rd week or later before I had to go to the 3gal buckets.

I am trying not to stress out, and will do my normal morning pictures in about 12 hours so you can see what is going on, but other than this everything looks great and the babies look strong and are developing fast.

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

Emmie,
Don't worry about the cot's, they do that.

Frankly I would not even consider any ferts until at least 6 weeks old, but I am a don't fert person. Glad you are checking to make sure you are not over watering.

[emilya]

Dec 20 (day 11)
It is remarkable to me how much growth can happen in 24 hours. There are dramatic differences between yesterday and today and I would have to conclude that the babies are happy. :thumbsup:

First to the problem with the cotyledons. The yellowing is still there, but not quite so bad this morning and I have a theory. For the last couple of days I have had a small heat problem and could not figure it out. Temperature each time I visited the closet was at least 2 degrees higher than I had it set, at one point I saw it at 81 deg. Mostly it was hanging out at 79 deg and the humidity felt high. Stupid me... I had left my oven on and it seems that the heat was traveling across the ceiling into the next room and into the closet. The fan was bringing that heat down from the ceiling and into my project. Last night when I decided to have pizza for dinner I found this problem and corrected it so temperatures were back to 75 deg/70 overnight consistently. I think the babies appreciated that I was no longer trying to burn the place down and calmed themselves. Here is a picture of the cotyledons on #1.

Yellowing Cotyledon on my big bad boy
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6634-1-day-11.jpg

Next I want to notice the change since switching to the big SB44 T5 lights. My fastest grower was right at 2" and seemed to be stretching for light. Now vertical growth has drastically slowed and he is stretching horizontally and throwing out great growth to the sides. I can tell by his stability in the soil when I water that his root system has also developed well in this last week. Here I offer a side view so you can see how he has decided to tighten up and show off his heredity. :hippy:

Sneaking up on #1 from the side
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6638-number-1-side-view-day-11.jpg

So, things look pretty good here I think. I am still just watering (no nutes) and PH is holding at 6.3 after sitting out for 24 hours. I have also begun to aerate the water by shaking it up in a large jug before watering. The biggest thing I am doing is trying hard to maintain a consistent environment for them. The 20,000 lumens is at approximately 3-4 inches away from their tops, temp is 75/70 and light schedule is 18/6. Airflow is good inside the closet with a fan pointed at the light and causing a slight stir in the leaves of all my babies. Here are todays pictures!

#4, The Runt... looking strong and showing signs of staying short but stocky.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6637-4-day-11.jpg

#3 and her crutch... Probably not necessary anymore
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6636-3-day-11.jpg

#2 - really starting to take off
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6635-2-day-11.jpg

#1 - he is really proud of himself.. don't tell him about my scissors:eek:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6633-1-top-view-day-11.jpg

Enjoy your day! I am going to work on the grow box some more today.
Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

That runt is showing strong female. I like that one a bunch.

Probably have to get someone to confirm this, but I believe the cotyledons are the 'food' until the first set of leaves can make some.

[Dutch Pimp]

That runt is showing strong female. I like that one a bunch.

Probably have to get someone to confirm this, but I believe the cotyledons are the 'food' until the first set of leaves can make some.
I agree...:thumbsup:...their like a fuse that burns until the main charge is ready..:)

[emilya]

Dec 21 (day 12) - Overall, things are looking good this morning. All the babies are still showing constant and dramatic growth and continue to throw out new leaf development. I'm still puzzling over this slight yellowing on the runt and the cot's on #1. If anything, the problem got worse yesterday. The only thing that happened yesterday was that they all got a good drenching. I went to the troubleshooting guide and looked at pictures for a good long time last night and the only picture that even came close to looking like my problem was the description of over-watering. This combined with me watering them yesterday has me convinced that I must restrain myself a bit more. The next watering will not happen until I am convinced that they must have it. I'm sorry babies... mama does love you, you just can't have a drink right now.

I just had one of those "ah ha" moments. I think I am hurting my runt by assuming that she has the same water needs as the bigger plants next to her. She just does not need as much water yet as the rest of them. Too much love. Bad Emmie.

I am also on the warpath as of today. I saw a bug. Damn little flying thing, I'm guessing it was a white fly. OOOh... this bug has no idea what he started! This will never do! I'm getting a sticky strip and I am spraying something hideous in that closet. I did a close inspection under leaves and all through things and see no sign of the bugs on my babies... yet.

Here are the morning pictures!

The runt with her yellowing problem... still growing well though!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6641-day-12-runt-her-yellowing-problem.jpg

Number 3 getting ready to take off now
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6642-day-12-number-3-starting-branch-out.jpg

Number 2 looking good!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6643-day-12-number-2-looking-good.jpg

Number 1, Ain't he handsome?
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6644-day-12-aint-he-looker.jpg

Number 1 from his good side
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6645-day-12-number-1-side.jpg

Have a great day everyone!
Emmie

[gypski]

Doesn't look like anything is wrong to me. I wet the little ones good then leave them for a couple of days or until my finger is dry about 1/2"-3/4" when I poke their container. :thumbsup:

[Rusty Trichome]

Again...


...Let the soil dry-out a bit before using it for the seedlings. Over-saturated soil can kill seedlings.

Don't overwater. Keep a fan on the little darlings. The breeze will help minimize the stretch. ... :thumbsup:

[TANKJR]

Hi Emmie....You're being a helicopter mom to them babies! ;) It's understandable, most new moms (and Dads!) would be also, but your hovering over them! (make sure to breathe love, sing and blow co2 on them while your hovering!) Try not to worry so much....they're doing fine, but I have to go with Rusty....Don't overwater! I was pretty sure I posted something about those small leaves, but I don't see it in this thread....maybe I put it somewhere else or imagined it, it's happened before...Good pics too btw! I have no problem looking at your pics even without the bifocals! Even blazed! well ok I do see two or three images if I'm overbaked...dam! like now...ooops! I love goin from straight, to one rip buzzed, two rips...dam too much AGAIN! When will I learn? LOL!

L8r, TANK, baking, er baked for lunch!:stoned:

BTW, I fell outta my chair laughing on the "from his good side" caption...

[Rusty Trichome]

I use the cotyledons as a reference point. If they're healthy, likely the plant is healthy and happy, and is getting ecactly what they need from the word go. If they're dying prematurely, IMHO, you haven't hit "optimal" growth, which can adversely affect the youngster. (slower growth, stunting, deformations...)

Happy-n-Healthy:

[LetsSeeYa]

Great thread Em:thumbsup:and fantastic pics to boot. I hope all turns out as the theory would be a huge time saver. I have 3 seedlings now, but only outta the soil for about 3 days now, so il have to get a peek at them.

I wanted to make a comment on the pre fertted soil, even tho its prolly something you have heard enough of now. But when i grew out my first indoor grow, i used the pre fertted stuff, not thinking it was MG, but pre fertted. I had read tons of threads which the pre loaded stuff was being used and found that most had problems with burning. These people added nutes to their soil even though they are already in there. Ok so im new to it so i choose the pre fertted soil to make it easier on my first grow. I went through the entire grow without adding anything at all, because the soil will take care of those needs. I knew from all those grow logs not to add anything and it worked great. I even grew with cfl's and in the end, my harvest was even better then i thought it would be. My buds had a great taste and the plants even lived to be re vegged outside with a great yield.

This grow i wanted to make easy as i said, being my first indoor grow. But, it only worked, because i did not give ferts, period. If ya cant find different soil, i would follow this advise, only because it will work. I did it, but people that added ferts didn't. My log is in the Sig, if you want to look at the buds and plants, which got water throughout the grow.

The round lower leaves will get yellow and fall off by the end of the week, which is normal. Also i think Rusty has used the MG pre stuff, but even if he hasn't, his advise is not something to brush off:thumbsup:

Great thread, il be watching and hoping for your success:hippy:



:rasta:

[gypski]

give you something to look forward to. the big one is one month, the one in the cup, one week. No nutes. FF OF, T5 SB46. :thumbsup:

[emilya]

give you something to look forward to. the big one is one month, the one in the cup, one week. No nutes. FF OF, T5 SB46. :thumbsup:

Nice! :thumbsup: I'm getting excited! Been working on my new grow box all day long... paint is drying on the main shelf now. Tomorrow I hang all the mylar and possibly get the lights up! I have to get my babies out of that dumb closet and make them feel more at home in a nice new clean high tech growing laboratory. Not to mention that the SB48 doesn't fit in the closet. :( That upset me a bit, but whats a few hundred more dollars to develop a plan B? These guys are going to think the sun just went nova when I yet again double the light hitting them. --- Carpenter Emmie

[gypski]

Nice! :thumbsup: I'm getting excited! Been working on my new grow box all day long... paint is drying on the main shelf now. Tomorrow I hang all the mylar and possibly get the lights up! I have to get my babies out of that dumb closet and make them feel more at home in a nice new clean high tech growing laboratory. Not to mention that the SB48 doesn't fit in the closet. :( That upset me a bit, but whats a few hundred more dollars to develop a plan B? These guys are going to think the sun just went nova when I yet again double the light hitting them. --- Carpenter Emmie


You made your box 4'? You can always undo the sides and add 3/4 x your plywood dimension to each side. You can get it at Home Depot or Lowes. It will give you another 1 1/2" or you can get some 5/4 which will give you 2 1/2" so your light will fit. Little set back. :thumbsup:

[emilya]

You made your box 4'? You can always undo the sides and add 3/4 x your plywood dimension to each side. You can get it at Home Depot or Lowes. It will give you another 1 1/2" or you can get some 5/4 which will give you 2 1/2" so your light will fit. Little set back. :thumbsup:

oh no! let me clarify! The closet is actually a clothes closet that the plants are presently living in. it is just short of being wide enough for the sb48... plenty long.

the grow box that I am building is plenty big. it is 5' x 28" x 4' high. Dad always said... measure twice... THEN cut! :) --Emmie

[gypski]

oh no! let me clarify! The closet is actually a clothes closet that the plants are presently living in. it is just short of being wide enough for the sb48... plenty long.

the grow box that I am building is plenty big. it is 5' x 28" x 4' high. Dad always said... measure twice... THEN cut! :) --Emmie

Ok. You closet is probably 22"-23" wide not 24". That's why I got the SB 46. Its fits width wise!! :D I want a 48x8 and a 24x4 too!!! :smokin:

[WashougalWonder]

New parents can be so fun to observe :S5:

[emilya]

Dec 22 (Day 13) -
I am more convinced than ever that I am an over-waterer. Thank you everyone for the posts helping to convince me of that. This morning, still no water and all looks good. No wilting. No pleas from the babies for water. And today, no signs of that yellow mottled look on #1 and #4. I find myself very impressed by the pictures in plant abuse thread after this experience.

It does look like the runt (#4) is trying very hard to catch up now. She is taller and has developed quite a few new leaves in the last few days. I think she doesn't like being called the runt and has decided to show us all just how beautiful she can be. Stay tuned on this one...

It does look like she is going to lose her cot's though. Definitely right on LetSeeYa... within a few days I suspect she is going to shed those. I have a theory on this. I suspect that she needed a growth spurt to get her root structure going and knew she was in trouble. She ate these cotyledons to get the energy to do what she needed to do. As a result she is thriving now. I might be wrong in this analysis, but it is a beautiful way of looking at her and her will to survive, don't you think?

Number 3 (the one with the crutch) has purposely moved away from the wire loop and refuses to use the crutch now. She is standing up strong and proud and I bet when I water this next time she is going to show me how strong her roots are and stay right where she belongs. If this turns out to be the case I will remove the crutch... I don't want to offend her.

Number 1 is just a show off. He didn't change a lot in this last 24 hours but I can see him strengthening... his trunk is getting wider and his nodes are showing a lot of activity. His leaves have all gotten wider and longer. I am sure that he is enjoying all this attention!

Here are the pictures!

Absorbing her cotyledons! :eat:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6671-day-13-4-runt-throwing-off-her-cotyledons.jpg

I don't need no crutch! :postredx:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6672-day-13-3-girl-refusing-use-her-crutch.jpg

I think I can... I think I can...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6673-day-13-2-looking-proud.jpg

Look at me world! I'm a big bad boy! :rastasmoke:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6674-day-13-1-standing-there-showing-off-his-stuff.jpg

Have a great day! For those of you traveling this week, Happy Holidays and be safe.

Emmie

[jon420]

Just wanted to stop in and ask why you keep refering to your babies as "boys"? You may want to refer to them as "girls" so they don't get mad and hermie on you:D

You deffinately don't want any boys hanging around your ladies:thumbsup:

Good grow so far too!!! Just make sure you tke the advice thats been given because they are right. You deffinatley dont want to add any nutes to pre-fert soil and if you do, wait until flower and start very very low. I am at about half strength coming up on week 4 of flower and I feed them MG Bloom Booster and they love it. Also, try not to overwater and cause your babies to drown.

[LetsSeeYa]

Just wanted to stop in and ask why you keep refering to your babies as "boys"? You may want to refer to them as "girls" so they don't get mad and hermie on you:D

You deffinately don't want any boys hanging around your ladies:thumbsup:

Good grow so far too!!! Just make sure you tke the advice thats been given because they are right. You deffinatley dont want to add any nutes to pre-fert soil and if you do, wait until flower and start very very low. I am at about half strength coming up on week 4 of flower and I feed them MG Bloom Booster and they love it. Also, try not to overwater and cause your babies to drown.

You need to read the first post as this is an experiment, which em is trying to predict sex at 6 days from the seed popping. Its interesting. But the plants she refers to as ''boys'' if this experiment works, they will be male and the other labeled female.


:rasta:

[jon420]

You need to read the first post as this is an experiment, which em is trying to predict sex at 6 days from the seed popping. Its interesting. But the plants she refers to as ''boys'' if this experiment works, they will be male and the other labeled female.


:rasta:

My bad, I missunderstood:stoned::smokin:

[emilya]

Dec 23 (14 days) - Today at the 2 week point I lead off with a picture!

Helicopter view of #1, our prize big boy!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6689-imag0007-p.jpg

Yesterday our little ones had a busy day. They moved out of the closet and into the new grow box. The box isn't completely finished yet, but it is time to start testing it under real life conditions. Now the light hitting them has doubled yet again under the big Sunblaze 48/8 light. Also, we now have changed the light spectrum a bit with addition of a bit of red light. (I only have 6 blue bulbs)

As a result of all this activity our babies got out their sunglasses and reached up to the light today. It was remarkable seeing them all turn their leaves upward in direct response to the added light. There was not a lot of apparent growth comparing pictures from yesterday to today, but I am preparing for a growth spurt today and tomorrow when they decide that the added energy is here to stay and instead of storing it, they start using it to build.

Just 2 shopping days left till Christmas! Everyone stay safe!

Emmie

[neonzr]

interesting experiment, will be watching for results

[emilya]

Dec 24 (Day 15) - Everything looks very good here today. The babies seem to love the light and have turned their leaves upward to get as much of it as they can. Now that I am not over watering the coloring has become a deep green again with no trace of yellow except in a few of the cot's. I see a bit of new growth but mostly they all seem to be gathering energy right now and increasing leaf size all over. A big growth spurt is coming soon, I can just feel it! I will let the pictures speak for themselves.

Our little girl, reaching toward the sun...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6705-day-15-number-4.jpg

Number 3, turned upward and gathering...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6704-day-15-number-3.jpg

Number 2, looking up and feeling strong...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6703-day-15-number-2.jpg

Our bad boy #1, struttin his stuff for the camera...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6702-day-15-number-1.jpg

Have a great day! ---Emmie

[SoHigh420]

cant wait to see how this turns out:jointsmile:
all looks well so far! keep it up:thumbsup:

[Stomper420]

Nice job, cant wait to see them flower. I have two small ones in flower and about a dozzen in veg with some seeds waiting to sprout. The ww looks sooo cool. Check um out in my log.

Good luck and have a Merry Christmas:rastasmoke:

[Gare0440]

looking good looking good im here watching :thumbsup: :rasta:

[emilya]

Dec 25 (16 days) - Merry Christmas everyone! I am pleased to report that the growth spurt has started to happen. #1 is the big guy, but height wise, 2 and 3 have almost caught up with him. #4 is still the runt, but she is getting taller now too. Everyone is reaching up and gathering light and growing rapidly now. It is also helping a great deal now that I am not watering nearly as much... the soil feels pretty dry right now to me and I would have been hitting them with a couple of cups of water before I learned not to... but now my moisture indicator probe says there is still some water in there, and no signs of thirst in the babies.

As you all are aware, I am attempting to prove the early sexing theory that was brought to us by WashougalWonder (http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-techniques/181139-early-female-id.html#post2068667). Using that work, we have identified #4 as a male and #1 (the runt) as female. 2 and 3 were a bit more difficult, but it was very tempting to label both of them early on as female although I went 50/50 on them and initially labeled them one of each. There were red indicators on the trunks on both of them though, and looking at this experiment some more, I am heading back to my original feelings about these two and thinking that they are both female.

What I have noticed is this. The male clearly shows green stalk... from the dirt level up to the top of the growth, nothing but green. Some of the petioles (the smaller leaf stalks) are red, but I think this is more genetics than an indicator of sex. The other 3, I am thinking that a key place to look is the main stalk, between the first true leaves and the first internode. In all 3 this little section of main stalk is all red. Could this be the indicator we are looking for? If so, I have 3 girls and a boy here. Time will tell.

Here are the pictures!

Our big boy #1... look at him go!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6708-day-16-1.jpg

Number 2... catching up! Note the red stalk before the first internode
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6709-day-16-2.jpg

Number 3... right behind, and again the red section of main trunk
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6710-day-16-3.jpg

Number 4... the proud little runt and her very clearly all red stalk
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6711-day-16-4.jpg

Be well everyone...
Emmie

[Dutch Pimp]

It is also helping a great deal now that I am not watering nearly as much... the soil feels pretty dry right now to me and I would have been hitting them with a couple of cups of water before I learned not to... but now my moisture indicator probe says there is still some water in there, and no signs of thirst in the babies.



cheap, moisture meter probe...reads: WET/MOIST/DRY...the KISS principle, money, well spent...:thumbsup:

[WashougalWonder]

Interesting, all the red ones are much more predominately red than I am used to seeing. See how it is on the bottom of the petioles too? I wonder if water is shy on Mg? What is source of water again? If municipal can you look up the data for water quality, that should show the micronutrients.

They all look female to me except the first one. The runt looks over watered. Mix the soil up at the top a little bit gently to help loose moisture, also can direct fan on them at low volume to strengthen stalks and help transpiration.

Don't go and freak out that there may be a deficiency. The fact they reach for the light is showing strength and they are okay, I am questioning if genetics or deficiency is causing the amount of redness, even the 'male' has redness that I would not expect, and I think it is genetics but I am not sure at all here. (I need to look back at the beginning to see what you are using, 'old fart syndrome' ;))

Edit: Ok what I am looking for is not there, would you fill out a troubleshooting form for me please?.....6" pots...

[emilya]

Hello fellow Cannabis'ers! I hope Santa was good to you yesterday. Today is a travel day for me so I am hurrying through the post this morning and I apologize for the quality of the pictures. I tried a new top down angle today and still need to work a bit on the focus distance, but you can still get a good idea what is happening from these this morning.

From the helicopter views you can see that each of the babies are starting to show good growth to the sides and good density in the center. The soil dried out pretty good yesterday so I hit them with 2 cups of water each last night before lights out. I still have not confirmed if this is the best time to water them, but it makes sense to me that they could best utilize the oxygenated water when they stop processing light and do whatever it is that they do in the dark. I think of this as how we humans best process food if we relax after a meal rather than following a meal with strenuous exercise. I have no idea if this is a valid way of relating to plants since I am so new at this, but it is my attempt to try to understand how a plant lives and what it needs.

At any rate, the plants all look happy and healthy. 1,2 and 3 have all achieved approximately the same vertical height now and seem to be trying to increase surface area of the leaf structures in order to gather in more light. When I watered I could tell that the root structure of all the plants now seems to be solid as there was no tilting or apparent movement as the water settled around them. I am also assuming that #1 has a much more developed root structure from the run off after watering. 2 cups used to produce run off in all the pots, but now #1 shows no run off at this level, and as the plant size decreases, the amount of run off increases. Again, having no experience in this, I have to assume that it is the root structure sucking up this excess water, but I have no idea if this uptake can be so rapid as to influence the effect that I think I am seeing.

Please feel free to comment on these various assumptions and thoughts as I proceed with this grow log. I am trying to be brutally honest about my lack of experience and knowledge here in the attempt to learn, as well as to allow anyone reading this grow log in the future to learn from it just as I am doing. As long as we stay on these topics and treat this grow log as a lesson for the brand new grower, I will not feel that anyone is hijacking the log with their comments.

Here are todays pictures, a bit out of focus...

#1, our fast growing boy
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6715-day-17-001.jpg

#2, doing well... getting wider every day
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6714-day-17-002.jpg

#3, she is really starting to build now, no crutch needed these days
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6713-day-17-003.jpg

#4, she may be small, but she sure is growing now, vertically and horizontally
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6712-day-17-004.jpg


Thanks everyone for your input so far! Have a great day!

Emmie

[emilya]

Interesting, all the red ones are much more predominately red than I am used to seeing. See how it is on the bottom of the petioles too? I wonder if water is shy on Mg? What is source of water again? If municipal can you look up the data for water quality, that should show the micronutrients.

They all look female to me except the first one. The runt looks over watered. Mix the soil up at the top a little bit gently to help loose moisture, also can direct fan on them at low volume to strengthen stalks and help transpiration.

Don't go and freak out that there may be a deficiency. The fact they reach for the light is showing strength and they are okay, I am questioning if genetics or deficiency is causing the amount of redness, even the 'male' has redness that I would not expect, and I think it is genetics but I am not sure at all here. (I need to look back at the beginning to see what you are using, 'old fart syndrome' ;))

Edit: Ok what I am looking for is not there, would you fill out a troubleshooting form for me please?.....6" pots...

:postgood:

ok... here is the form
*******************************
What is your experience level? (first timer)

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. T5 high output SunBlaze 48/8 - 6 blue bulbs and 2 red.. will switch to all red at flowering

.2) Distance from tops? approximately 4 inches

.3) Reflector type? SunBlaze fixture, individual reflectors above each bulb, mylar all throughout the box.

.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Constant circulation, 50cfm fan at top of box drawing in from the bottom.

.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes both, small circulation fan sitting at pot level blowing up into the light and across the top of the plants

.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 55w each x 8. 6-6500k, 2-3000k. On a 18/6 schedule

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, Miracle Grow 6 month formula 4 parts, 1 part vermiculite, 1 part perlite with 1/2 inch layer of vermiculite at the bottom of the pots.

.8) Size of container. 8" diameter x 7.5" height terra-clay pots

.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings?
used paper towel method and planted directly to 8" pots.

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting?
tap water, filtered with carbon filter, set out for at least 24 hours, ph 6.3-6.4

11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...)
aquarium test kit

12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) not needed yet

13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. Miracle grow all purpose 24-8-16... only used once at 1/8 strength and saw nutrient burn, so have not used it again.

14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? 2 cups, approximately every 3 days

15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) Planning to use molasses (unsulfered) after transplanting to 3gal buckets before flowering

16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? seem to be stable

17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? in-6.3, out 7-7.2 ( I think... not sure how to read since runoff is already a yellowish color)

18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? Have not fed this way yet, but have tried seltzer water one time

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? box, 5'x 28"x4'
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? 30-35 off, 35-40 on
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? a couple of gnats, nothing else

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) 60/40 mix, white widow

24) From seeds or clones? seeds from Amsterdam seed company
25) Is this an autoflower strain? no


Questions from your last post...
*what do you mean water is shy on MG?
*Will look into micro-nutes on city water... assume this would be greatly reduced with the use of this carbon filter... should I not filter it?

Thanks!
Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

Okay Em, thanks. I think the Miracle grow...Mg as in magnesium. The miracle grow is probably the cause. Not to worry, easy on the water, mine use about 1/4 cup per day at that size...tops.

Next pot size up should be about a 1 -1.5 gal nursery size. See if ya can find some potting mix without time release food. You must go very, very easy on watering as each time you water you release nutes in these mixes. Do not just go to huge pot, water settles to the bottom and gets stagnant.

But regardless I think these have grown beyond the age I mean when I am talking just sprouting out of the ground and the red. Note the duskiness below the cotyledons on these two young girls. Note how the red on the petioles only is mostly on the top half and just dots.

Of course this could all be just lighting differences.

Yes I have given up on filtering. But what is in your water?

Yes as the root system builds the needs of the pot of soil will increase and of course without a good root system less water will be used.

[emilya]

Okay Em, thanks. I think the Miracle grow...Mg as in magnesium. The miracle grow is probably the cause. Not to worry, easy on the water, mine use about 1/4 cup per day at that size...tops.

Next pot size up should be about a 1 -1.5 gal nursery size. See if ya can find some potting mix without time release food. You must go very, very easy on watering as each time you water you release nutes in these mixes. Do not just go to huge pot, water settles to the bottom and gets stagnant.

But regardless I think these have grown beyond the age I mean when I am talking just sprouting out of the ground and the red. Note the duskiness below the cotyledons on these two young girls. Note how the red on the petioles only is mostly on the top half and just dots.

Of course this could all be just lighting differences.

Yes I have given up on filtering. But what is in your water?

Yes as the root system builds the needs of the pot of soil will increase and of course without a good root system less water will be used.

I will check with the city tomorrow and find out what is in the water. I am sure that something you just said here has given me one of those "ah ha" moments though... let me see if I understand correctly.

You see, I have read over and over all the comments about "run off" and had assumed that this was the goal of watering... that you figured out how much water it took to cause run off and then just short of that was what the plant/soil needed. BUT... notice the big letters here. I think what you just told me was that this is a big big mistake with a soil such as MG and plants as small as these because such a large amount of water not only stagnates in a too large of pot such as I have here, but it also will tend to release way too many nutrients at each watering. DUH! This makes perfect sense and now I understand what my plants are trying to tell me. Not only do they show signs of over-watering, but they seem to constantly teeter on the edge of nutrient burn, a couple have actually burned twice at the very leaf tips of the first true leaves.

So if I am finally starting to see the light here, the key isn't just waiting till the soil appears to be dry but also in learning to give the babies just the right amount of water that they can handle at that particular stage in their growth! Now I think I am starting to get it! These poor little things might just survive my attacks after all! Thank you WW. I know that many of you have been warning me to stop over-watering, but sometimes it doesn't sink in until someone says just the right thing in just the right way. All this talk of run off and flushing... I have been picturing torrents of water each time the containers get totally dry.

Once again, I have been totally humbled by the simple needs of a frail little life who's fate is in my hands. Someday, I may actually get good at this. Thank you again everyone... I am learning... slowly.

Emmie

[gypski]

I will check with the city tomorrow and find out what is in the water. I am sure that something you just said here has given me one of those "ah ha" moments though... let me see if I understand correctly.

You see, I have read over and over all the comments about "run off" and had assumed that this was the goal of watering... that you figured out how much water it took to cause run off and then just short of that was what the plant/soil needed. BUT... notice the big letters here. I think what you just told me was that this is a big big mistake with a soil such as MG and plants as small as these because such a large amount of water not only stagnates in a too large of pot such as I have here, but it also will tend to release way too many nutrients at each watering. DUH! This makes perfect sense and now I understand what my plants are trying to tell me. Not only do they show signs of over-watering, but they seem to constantly teeter on the edge of nutrient burn, a couple have actually burned twice at the very leaf tips of the first true leaves.

So if I am finally starting to see the light here, the key isn't just waiting till the soil appears to be dry but also in learning to give the babies just the right amount of water that they can handle at that particular stage in their growth! Now I think I am starting to get it! These poor little things might just survive my attacks after all! Thank you WW. I know that many of you have been warning me to stop over-watering, but sometimes it doesn't sink in until someone says just the right thing in just the right way. All this talk of run off and flushing... I have been picturing torrents of water each time the containers get totally dry.

Once again, I have been totally humbled by the simple needs of a frail little life who's fate is in my hands. Someday, I may actually get good at this. Thank you again everyone... I am learning... slowly.

Emmie

Next time, get some Black Gold (Home Depot, nursery) and Perlite, and make your own soil. Then get FF nutes!!! :D

[pipefitter]

I can attest to Black Gold. I have never used anything except it. Works great and I've never mixed anthing with it and use it from seed through cull time. Although perlite seems like a good idea. I think it perlite helps it dry faster and gets more ox to the roots.

Im a little curious what your flowering plan is in terms of lights, pots, LST etc; Buuuttt, don't tell me it will be like ruining a good movie and spoiling the end. :jointsmile:

Remember Black Gold, it's great.

Plants look very symentrical. I always find they are so much more sensitive at their age.

Looking great.

[WashougalWonder]

Emily, I am not the world's best communicator. I am thrilled you now understand WTF. :wtf:

Again, don't freak, just let nature work here.

[emilya]

Greetings faithful readers... I feel we have been here before, but now we are just a bit smarter. Today finds our little ones recovering once again from too much love, i.e... too much water. They are complaining at me a bit, with a slightly yellowish trend all throughout the major leaves. Again it is not all of them doing this so dramatically, but it is there... mama notices.

So, after being repeatedly told this by so many of you fine people out there, we have learned finally that Miracle Grow is very hard to manage... and certainly more than should be attempted by a novice grower such as myself. But, this is what we have and now I am learning to deal with it. After a couple of days of drying out we are going to try to apply what has just been learned and try watering in small amounts. 1/4 cup / day instead of 2 cups every 2 1/2 to 3 days. When I return to the store I will be looking for the soil mentioned in earlier responses and the FF nutrients for when I eventually transplant to larger pots.

Despite this bit of training on my part, the plants seem to be thriving. All but the runt are now at about the same height, about 2 3/4" to 3" on the big boy. Everyone continues to increase leaf size and overall circumference.

Also today I go to the local water company and ask them what they have put into my water. This should be fun. I think I will tell them that I raise prize winning tropical fish. That will fool them... yep.

Here are today's pictures!

Number 1
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6728-day-18-1.jpg

Number 2
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6727-day-18-2.jpg

Number 3
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6726-day-18-3.jpg

Number 4
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6725-day-18-4.jpg

Be good everyone. Just 5 days left until we start 2011, the last full year in the Mayan calendar. I plan on partying the entire year... just in case.

Emmie

p.s. Pipefitter... thank you for thinking that this growlog is like a good movie. :) I will try not to disappoint. You will no doubt enjoy my newbie attempts to understand some advanced flowering techniques. I don't plan on making this too easy... what would be the fun in that?

[emilya]

Here are the numbers. I have no idea if any of this is good or bad

Floride .7 mg/L
Sodium 46 mg/L
Iron Not Detected
Manganese Not Detected
Lead 3.4 ug/L
Copper .650 mg/L
Nitrate .02 mg/L
Arsenic .5 ug/L
Selenium 2.5 mg/L
Clorine 1.5 mg/L
Sulfate 31.2 mg/L
TTHMS 2.4 mg/L
HAA5 .3 mg/L
:what:
I am assuming that my Britta filter gets rid of most of this and setting it out for 24 hours evaporates off the clorine. Anything else desirable in there?

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

Ya, with the lead and arsenic, I would use the britta filter most of the time....

I do notice they do not show calcium or magnesium, and no iron. Next time you water give 1 teaspoon of unsulphured molasses mixed in 1 gallon of water...you will waste a bunch of water, but no harm done. Water the proper amount, toss the rest. Let things go a week at least before giving it again. If not already marking on a calendar when you give nutes, start one. Pick a day of the week to nute IF you nute....I use Sunday as it is a lazy day for me and I have extra time to monitor everything.

You need to learn how to feel if the pot needs water. It is a weight thing. At this point they aren't large enough to use much but down the road it is a useful tool. I give a 1/4 cup, but my humidity is currently in the 80-100% range, you may need 1/2 cup, which would be my summer amount. Remember these are a plant that will do fine with small amounts of water if they have good soil and light. Wet-to-dry is important for strong root development.

Remember when you repot to use plastic, not clay, roots don't adhere as much to the plastic.

[emilya]

Good morning my friends...

Sometimes you look at your plants and you wonder, "have there been any changes today?" I did that this morning and was thinking that there had been little if any change from the day before. Then I compared pictures. Wow! :thumbsup: Amazing how much growth can happen in a day without you realizing it, especially if you are checking on it several times throughout the day.

We are still recovering from my last over watering and I see the yellowish tinge on several of the larger first leaves and also on the cotyledons. I think that they are going to forgive me for this latest deluge since I am now letting them dry out, but I do have to quit stressing these babies. Growth is rapid at this point and even our little girl runt is starting to show some impressive growth. One plant, #2 is starting to look different than the rest somehow, she stands differently. Not sure how to describe it, but if I played the old childs game of "one of these things is not like the other one" I would pick her out of the crowd. Maybe its nothing... but I have my eye on her.

Here are the pictures, and tomorrow I start a new album since I have now filled this first one up.

The star of our show, Our little girl runt... look at her go now!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6735-day-19-p4.jpg

Number 3... standing at 2.75" and getting wider each day
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6736-day-19-p3.jpg

Number 2... somehow different.. a haughty and sort of aloof look about her
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6737-day-19-p2.jpg

Number 1... so big now he is messing with the camera focus laser.. good boy!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6738-day-19-p1.jpg

Have a wonderful day everyone!

Emmie

p.s. WW, I will keep filtering then and will try the molasses on the next watering to fill in some of the missing nutrients. I am indeed keeping a detailed calendar on important events here, so I will establish a regular schedule. I have determined that I really dislike these clay pots and will only use the plastic from here on out. I am planning on moving to 1gal containers at about the 1 month time.

[canniwhatsis]

Plastic is easier to up pot out of too. For flowering I like to use "Smart Pots" Smart Pots - Container Gardening, Hydroponic Fabric Containers (http://www.smartpots.com/)

The only reason I use plastic for vege is ease of up potting, it's kinda difficult to get the rootball out of the fabric bags without disrupting it too much.



Baby's look good ;) I've been taggin along since the beginning. :hippy:

[TANKJR]

"A haughty and aloof look to her"...Love reading your observations, Emmie! :D

Lookin good! Please stop worrying so much about nutes and WW stop encouraging her on nutes! ;) LOL! They will tell you what and when they need something and you'll actually be able to tell once the "deluge" situation has dried out, but you shouldn't have to add anything for a few more weeks minimum, and you'll probably be re-potting before that happens, so no worries, eh?...there's plenty of stuff in that soil you used! If you feel you absolutely MUST add something, yea, molasses would be good, but remember, it will help the plant take up even more nutes from the soil and could "heat up" an already hot soil mix, and you may start to see some mild burning going on....just be aware of it. I always notice it when I first add molasses to MG dirt. The sweet stuff seems to give the dirt some kick! Personally, I would just stick to good ph'd filtered water for now! And I use the 1/4 cup measure also....just depends on how dry my house is as to how many days they go before getting the next 1/4 cup, but it's always at least two! Usually 3...yea, ya gotta stop over watering them, but they still lookin good! The love must be making up for the stress...:D

[WashougalWonder]

Tank has more knowledge with the MG soil than I do, listen to him.

[emilya]

Greetings... the board was still down this morning so I didn't update the pictures. I will show you how they look again tomorrow morning. Here was how our big boy #1 looked yesterday and the other 3 pictures are available in the new album Emmies First Grow (part 2) (http://boards.cannabis.com/album.php?albumid=973)...

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6745-day-20-1.jpg

As you can see, a lot of yellowing going on here and it is causing me a lot of concern. Most of it has to do with the over watering so I am being patient and waiting for them to dry out. Today the containers appeared to be mostly dry and I have given them 1/4 cup of water... that is 1 3/4 less than I had been giving them at this point. This will have to cause a huge difference. In the morning I expect them all to either look better or all be dead. Time will tell.

At any rate, I am glad to see the forum back. Actually, without being so overly dramatic, as of this evening it looks like some green is returning to the lower leaves on everyone already and I am seeing quite a bit of new growth in just one day on #1. He has popped out 4 new leaves just over the cotyledons and they grew dramatically today. All new growth is presenting in a lush deep green and I have every hope that he is still thriving, despite my attempts to drown them.

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

You are doing okay. Patience.

[emilya]

You are doing okay. Patience.

lol... patience he says. Not my strongest quality for sure. After I know I am not killing my babies I will find more of it I am sure... but for now I worry.

Lets say I get back from my drive today with new 1 gal and 2 gal pottery containers and some fox farms soil and I wanted to transplant these complaining little dears out of the miracle grow. They are in these stupid 8" clay pots now. What would be the best way to extract them? Just do the upside down shake and see what falls away from a root structure that surely isn't nearly as large as this container? Use some kind of large spoon and try to scoop them out from the edges? How much of this miracle grow should I try to bring with them, as little as possible? At 3 weeks and still no more than slightly stressed plantlings, is it too early to put them through the stress of a move, or is the risk worth it to get them in a better soil?

Impatient Emmie

[Dutch Pimp]

1. Clay pots...oh my. You may have to hire a brain surgeon...someone with a steady hand...:D

Weezard said to me one day.."Boy...use a sharp knife to cut along the sides to loosen the roots from the sides...slowly...carefully..and pray it's not stuck to the bottom too much"....:wtf:...:stoned:...so i listened to the old fart and it worked OK...:D

2. I wouldn't transplant yet. I really don't see anything unusual about your seedlings....IMO....transplant when rootbound.

3. I would feel bad if something went wrong with your grow; because of advice from me. I do my growing by the seat of my pants. I can usually just look at a plant (in Person) and see what it wants?

4. The final decision is yours alone....choose wisely.

Enjoy your grow.

[WashougalWonder]

Well DP, I am going to disagree with you. I think the sooner she gets out of the troublesome MG soil she will do much better.

Yes do the knife thing around the edges, support the soil around the stem and turn upside down, might even have to tap on the pot to get it all to release. A little root damage may occur, but I think not. Just sort of let the root ball crumble in your hands and then repot into the OF or whatever.

Maybe do the worst looking plant and see how it does first? These puppies are tough, you have a better chance of getting an ulcer than killing them you worry-wart you. LOL.

Have a good day

[Dutch Pimp]

...I've seen just as many plants die in Fox Farms soil as I have MG soil.

"It's a poor workman that blames his tools"

[Rusty Trichome]

Like Washougal said...Patience comes to mind here. Or a severe lack of it.
-But-
Patience can be gained, by LEAVING THE POOR THINGS ALONE. Keep dicking with 'em, and you are likely to get yourself into an unrecoverable position of stunted or severly stressed plants.

I can appreciate a genuine concern over the kids, and a strong desire to taste the fruits of your labors, but you've got to stop thinking there is something you are doing wrong or not doing right. (that's the impression I've been getting here)

Your plants look fine. :thumbsup:

I did the terra-cotta pots in the past. Nothing like stuck/stretched/torn roots and traumatized rootballs to throw the plants into deep transplant shock. (use care, and let rootball dry-out before the transplant) Been happily in plastic since.

Leave them in the pots they're in till they are ready for transplant. (roots crowding the bottom of the pot) Transplant too early, and you do a few things...
1) You tend to give more water, which in a larger pot, it takes longer to dry. Cannabis needs and prefers a wet-dry cycle. Try to aim twords the dry side, since you have a history of overwatering. Overwatered roots will cease mostly all nutrient and water uptake till the condition is rectified. Consistently wet roots rot. Root rot is generally fatal.
2) On feeding days, you're likely to saturate the pot thinking the roots will grow twords the unused nutrients. What this does is add to the salt build-up. The nutrients tend to congeal and toxify the soil. Roots don't thrive in toxic enviornments.
3) The newfound footroom makes for phenominal root growth, often at the expense of foliar growth. If the soil is still retaining water during feedings, likely there's still enough footroom. Tiz ok (prefered in my garden) to have a little bit of root compaction, but letting 'em get rootbound is also counter-productive.

Cute Dutch, lol. But MG can be a tough soil to learn on. But once you get it down...it's no better or worse than others.
When in a pre-ferted soil, the need for additional nutrients is negligible. I learned to grow in MG 3 month soil about 8 years ago, and it lasts about a month and a half or two before I'd start the light doses of nutrients. Doubtful it's much different with the 6 month, except it lasts for a longer period before running-out. Not too sure about the buffering in the soil lasting that long, so ph will likely take a big hit. But you mention switching to the FF during your next transplant, so ph shouldn't be an issue for ya.

What nutrients are you going to use for flowering?

[Dutch Pimp]

Usually terra-cotta pots have one big hole in the bottom. Transplant when roots are growing out the bottom hole.

[LetsSeeYa]

lol... patience he says. Not my strongest quality for sure. After I know I am not killing my babies I will find more of it I am sure... but for now I worry.

Lets say I get back from my drive today with new 1 gal and 2 gal pottery containers and some fox farms soil and I wanted to transplant these complaining little dears out of the miracle grow. They are in these stupid 8" clay pots now. What would be the best way to extract them? Just do the upside down shake and see what falls away from a root structure that surely isn't nearly as large as this container? Use some kind of large spoon and try to scoop them out from the edges? How much of this miracle grow should I try to bring with them, as little as possible? At 3 weeks and still no more than slightly stressed plantlings, is it too early to put them through the stress of a move, or is the risk worth it to get them in a better soil?

Impatient Emmie

Hey Em looking great:thumbsup:. I use a clay pot sometime and have never had an issue with any re pot, even 5gal re pots. I made a ''how to re pot without stress'' in my Sig if you want to look at it, but it is a plastic pot. I have grown bonsai trees and re potting is just something done a lot if you have lots of trees.

But the main thing is to let the pot dry out, then turn it over and use something to tap around the pot, which should loosen up anything attached to the pot. If it gives you problems still, just turn them, the pots upside down and use a bit of force to pop it out in your other hand. You will use the edge of the pot to hit your palm and with fingers spread, the plant will pop out with all dirt/root ball intact. Then just add soil to new pot, drop the plant with root ball in new pot and fill in around it. In a week or two, the roots should have grown into the fresh medium. If you look at the thread i made you can see how fast my plant recovered.

Do not spoon it out, you have no idea where the roots start and stop and stress will follow. But i grantee my way, there is no stress. Some people think a re pot will always give stress, never in my case.



Great thread:rasta:

[LetsSeeYa]

Usually terra-cotta pots have one big hole in the bottom. Transplant when roots are growing out the bottom hole.

Yep, the only thing i forgot was to let the pot fill its pot before anything. I wish all my seedlings looked that healthy.

But i gotta say, i luv my small clay pot, because of the big whole in the bottom and builds a nice root ball for me. I have never had to go around the pot with a knife, but i fill the pot with roots first:thumbsup:



:rasta:

[emilya]

Well DP, I am going to disagree with you. I think the sooner she gets out of the troublesome MG soil she will do much better.

Yes do the knife thing around the edges, support the soil around the stem and turn upside down, might even have to tap on the pot to get it all to release. A little root damage may occur, but I think not. Just sort of let the root ball crumble in your hands and then repot into the OF or whatever.

Maybe do the worst looking plant and see how it does first? These puppies are tough, you have a better chance of getting an ulcer than killing them you worry-wart you. LOL.

Have a good day

ok guys... you are making me feel better about things for sure. The thing that is troubling me is that i thought I was being smart when I put these pots together with putting that layer of vermiculite at the bottom. I thought it would help with drainage. Now I hear that the stuff traps moisture... and I see that happening in that even when the rest of the soil is mostly dry, I still get some condensation under the pot where the vermiculite seems to be throwing off a bit of that moisture. So, I'm worried about 2 things... first that the root wont be able to get through that layer and start presenting at the bottom hole to tell me when it is time to repot... and 2, if I am retaining moisture down there, am I risking root rot? This beginner mistake along with the miracle grow debacle would be fixed if I repot... but then again, I trust and value the great advice and experience of all of you too. Maybe as WW suggested, I will pick the worse looking one and try a transplant to see what happens and learn from it. The other 3 for now, I will use to practice my patience... at least until I get to examine what is happening at the bottom of the experimental pot... If I find lake Erie under there I am going to have a small panic attack. :eek:

Emmie

[Rusty Trichome]

When properly watered, the perlite retains air inside it's tiny pockets, preventing over-saturation of the media.
When overwatered, the perlite displaces the air with water, which will keep the media saturated for longer.

Do not let the pots sit in standing water, even if you do have drainage rocks. (or perlite) It will prevent the air circulation (through the soil) that the plant needs.

[neonzr]

Hey Em,
You put vermiculite or perlite in the bottom? Perlite is the norm for the bottom layer, but in your post you said vermiculite. Just want to get it clear to help sort out whats going on.

[emilya]

Hey Em,
You put vermiculite or perlite in the bottom? Perlite is the norm for the bottom layer, but in your post you said vermiculite. Just want to get it clear to help sort out whats going on.

vermiculite is the bottom layer... i messed up didn't I?

[bigsby]

There is another solution which can avoid re-potting in the event that you are not ready to re-pot. Take a drill with a 1/8" bit and drill holes in the pots randomly around the pot. This will aerate the soil sufficiently and permit drainage. You'll also encourage air pruning which will promote a denser root ball. Let us know how it turns out. Pictures help! ;)

[TANKJR]

Emmie...the MG soil is not a debacle, nor are MG nutes...it's fine if you realize what it is, what is in it, what is not and deal with it accordingly...the vermiculite in the bottom is not the end of the world either, although perlite would have been better. There's no need to layer the soil in pots or any of that jazz...keep it simple...KISS! We'll say the second "s" is for silly:wtf: or maybe stoned:stoned:...there are nutes in the soil so you don't have to worry about that....vermiculite made the over watering worse, but now you're aware of that also, so definitely do not over water now...this could actually be good training for you on the tendency to over water...LOL! ;)...just deal with the things that pop up in the simplest manner possible....there is no need to be flushing and layering and adding this or that, or re-potting every other week...just lightly water them and let them grow...Remember the KISS principle...these are weeds after all...Your being a helicopter mom! Now back off and leave them kids alone....you....yes you....stand still laddie...sorry, that last rip and the PF playing made me lose it...LOL! :smokin:

[WashougalWonder]

An example of just how tough the weed is. I pulled a male without thought to what was left, and threw it out back. It had been pretty rainy and cold, but that darn plant managed to root again into the ground and kept growing....I had to 'kill' it again a month later when I noticed it when the weather got better.

[camoxnhx]

LOOKIN good so far EM! yea i always over water when i use soil so its for sure a learning process all the time. Your WW are looking good. Nice and green vegitation. One of my all time FAVIOTE STRAINS!!! there gonna be beautiful in full bloom! time is patients EM! everything will pull through for you! Got me seat pulled up!

[emilya]

An example of just how tough the weed is. I pulled a male without thought to what was left, and threw it out back. It had been pretty rainy and cold, but that darn plant managed to root again into the ground and kept growing....I had to 'kill' it again a month later when I noticed it when the weather got better.

wow! That is really amazing! I probably didn't kill these little ones yesterday then.

I was very worried about mine. Everyone was showing horrible yellowing and obviously screaming at me to fix something. Every leaf was affected at that point and if they were not yellow, they were a very sickly looking light green. I pulled the worst looking one and replanted her in a new 1 gal nursery pot with Happy Frog soil. The root structure was appalling. There was no root ball and very little dirt tried to cling to the few roots that were there. There was very sparse root development except at the very bottom of the pot and 90% of all the roots were concentrated in the vermiculite at the very bottom of the clay pot and were sitting in the stale water trapped there. No wonder we were turning yellow and starting to die.

I have repotted everyone now after seeing that. I tried hard to keep all the roots intact and spread them vertically in the new soil. After 12 hours, everyone is still standing tall and not wilting... We will see what happens in a few days but I am hopeful that we are now back on the right track. I also expanded the grow area quite a bit with the assembly of a new 4x4 Sun Hut. Now... after all this, I am going to work on my patience and just watch them for a few days with no more meddling. Live and learn. I will be so much better at this on the next round.

Here are the pictures!

#4, don't freak... thats dirt on her leaves... I will clean her off in a bit
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6756-day-23-4.jpg

#3, yellow but still standing!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6757-day-23-3.jpg

#2, yellow in her indifference... fitting in with the crowd better though
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6758-day-23-2.jpg

#1, still sporting those dark green new leaves, but really suffering down below
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6759-day-23-1.jpg

Happy New Year Everyone!
Emmie

[emilya]

Your being a helicopter mom! Now back off and leave them kids alone....you....yes you....stand still laddie...

lol... I am trying :) :thumbsup:

Hush now baby, baby, don't you cry. Mother's gonna make all of your nightmares come true. Mother's gonna put all of her fears into you. Mother's gonna keep you right here under her wing. She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing. Mama will keep baby cozy and warm. Ooooh babe, ooooh babe, oooooh babe, Of course Mama's gonna help build the wall.

Emmie

[RAINHAZE]

It's good to see your back on track Emmie. You've learned from this..we've all learned from this, but just as importantly, think of all the people in the future that will see this and learn from it also.:thumbsup:

btw, When I was younger we used to toss the seeds out the window at a favorite hangout, and then find full size plants growing. Hell we even had a plant that started growing in the back seat of a VW!!

[TANKJR]

Atta girl Emmie! I love PF when I'm blazed, but I'm sure I ain't the only one...:D

Speaking of the hardiness of these plants, I had an old nissan (so old it was actually a datsun!) red p/u truck we used to call the lil red party wagon:thumbsup:...it had a sliding rear window which is where all the seeds went when we cruised around getting high many years ago...needless to say they all wound up in the bed, which was full of junk, rust and dirt and old mulch and whatever else happened to be in there and it sat in the treeline of the farm where all the junk stuff goes when we're done with it, or it's done with us, and was left alone to rust away...A year later I was out there clearing brush and bush hogging down the tree line and looked over and there was not just a few plants in the bed growing...it was a friggin sea of green!!! The whole bed of this lil party wagon was full of two footers growing like gangbusters in what had to be the absolute worst for soil conditions and neglect...old motor oil and grease and dead leaves and what have you...I hate to say this, but I was not growing at the time and I shot them all dead with round up before somebody else saw them...:(

If they want to grow for ya, it's hard to stop 'em!:jointsmile:

[emilya]

I am pleased to report that everyone seems to be surviving the transplant. Not just that, but I am seeing now a trend toward more green instead of yellow. On #1 the first true leaves seem to be beyond repair, but after seeing how remarkably well these weeds withstand abuse, I will wait to report that it is casting aside the worst victims of my ineptitude. These unfortunate leaves are a crisp looking yellowish with hints of purple in some of the worst spots. At the base of these great leaves is still a patch of green, and there lies my hope of recovery in the new soil.

Overnight I see that not only did they all not wilt in reaction to the upheaval, but they are starting to raise up toward the light again, which must be a healthy sign. I can not discern any new growth at this point, but I suspect that most of the activity is now below the surface where a proper root structure is being engineered. I have been thinking about the suggestion that Bigsby gave us of drilling holes around the sides of the pot to encourage a more defined root ball. Why is it not common to put holes in the sides of our containers and could this do anything other than help with aeration?

Lastly, I have been looking closely at #3. Remember the aloof and haughty look? The not being quite the same as the others? When I look at the family all together I see a definite sibling relationship between all the others, 1, 2 and 4. Our #3 is starting to make me think that she is not of the same strain... that she is an adoptee from another family. I am very curious about this one and will be watching closely to see if she continues to look different than the rest. She also seemed to withstand the abuse better than the others, she maintained much more green and still seems to have healthy cotyledons whereas all the others have shriveled up at least one if not both of the cotyledons. Curiouser and curiouser cried Alice...

Here are the pictures!

First, the curious case of the widow imposter? Our proud #3
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6768-day-24-3.jpg

#4, the one that used to be called "The Runt" :thumbsup:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6767-day-24-4.jpg

#2, looking good, starting to green up again
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6769-day-24-2.jpg

#1, hurting down low, but showing signs of recovery and new growth
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6770-day-24-1.jpg

The proud Widow family!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6771-day-24-widow-family.jpg

A quick tease... the top right back corner of the new grow tent!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6773-electronic-breeze.jpg

Everyone have a good day! Enjoy that football! Go Chiefs!

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

Looking much better. :thumbsup:
The one that looks different may be simply a different phenotype, not at all uncommon, especially now-a-days with all the cross breeding out there.

[emilya]

Today is a good day. Yesterday we turned the corner and rapid growth has restarted on all the babies. There seems to have been no apparent shock to the transplant done three days ago. Deep green is replacing the pale green and the yellowed leaves are all starting to fill in with color again, with the possible exception of the first leaves on #1 and most of the cotyledons. All the plants are turned upwards toward the light again and appear to be thriving. Yesterday in a 6-12 hour period I could visibly see an astounding amount of growth at both the very top and the new bottom leaves coming in on the two biggest plants. It is remarkable to me that when things are going right, the plants respond so quickly and visibly.

New growth at the bottom of #1
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6781-day-25-1-side.jpg

Watering is being done at about 3 day intervals now and I am carefully measuring 1/4 cup each time. No thoughts are even being entertained as to adding anything else to the plants, the new soil should be taking care of it. Soil moisture content is being carefully watched with a meter as I try to learn to "feel" the pots with the lift method.

In an effort to completely control the environment, yesterday I worked on the humidity. I have purchased a cheap vaporizer and installed it with a timer in the grow tent. I have it running for 30 minutes every hour right now and the humidity has risen from 25-30% to about 50%. Temperature is carefully controlled at 78-79 during lights on and 74-75 at lights off, still running a 18/6 light schedule. The new tent is allowing for a very good amount of air exchange in the tent and I am working on the vent to the back porch through a DIY carbon filter. I also worked on plans for my scrog table yesterday and have a good drawing now to try to build that will give me 3.5 sqm of SCRog. I have tried to plan for the ability to flush in place without flooding the room as well as structural soundness and ease of access. We will see how well I have done with this plan as it develops! This is fun!

If things continue to advance as rapidly as they did yesterday, we will have shrubbery here very soon instead of little plantlings. I am very excited to see this and now am working on my patience. The plants are very good teachers... my training is coming along very nicely.

Here are today's pictures!

Look at the runt gooooo! :thumbsup:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6777-day-25-4.jpg

Our odd but seemingly very happy #3
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6778-day-25-3.jpg

Compare the pictures from yesterday... much more green and upward thrust on #2
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6779-day-25-2.jpg

Our big boy who was impacted by the root problem more than the others
because of his larger needs. A bit of green is creeping in to those big
leaves now especially at the veins. He may not lose them after all. We will see.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6780-day-25-1.jpg

Have a wonderful day everyone!
Emmie

[RAINHAZE]

Lookin' Good Emmie!

..I don't know for sure, but watering them with only a ¼ cup might not be quite enough. I read somewhere that it may cause the roots to turn up to reach the water. Don't let your overwatering episode scare ya, they need to completely dry out, and then have a good run off when watering.

[bigsby]

Not sure about your thinking for the scrog but something that work very well is to construct the frame out of 1/2 or 3/4 inch PVC piping and elbows. You can see an overly complicated version here:

http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/142963-cab-scrog-grow-using-dwc.html#post1743543

All you need are four elbows, some piping and the screen (2" x 3" suggested) and some zip ties to secure the screen. Don't bother with pipe glue. There's no need and moving it at a future date will be easier.

[emilya]

Not sure about your thinking for the scrog but something that work very well is to construct the frame out of 1/2 or 3/4 inch PVC piping and elbows. You can see an overly complicated version here:

http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/142963-cab-scrog-grow-using-dwc.html#post1743543

All you need are four elbows, some piping and the screen (2" x 3" suggested) and some zip ties to secure the screen. Don't bother with pipe glue. There's no need and moving it at a future date will be easier.

My first thought was of PVC... I have used it before to good effect making Ham Radio antennas. But I thought I read somewhere here that PVC was dangerous to use around plants because of gases that are expelled from the plastic in a hot situation. I thought that I might be alright since I am not using "hot" bulbs... and it certainly would be easier to work with than the aluminum I was thinking of using. Any thoughts about this?

Emmie

[LetsSeeYa]

My first thought was of PVC... I have used it before to good effect making Ham Radio antennas. But I thought I read somewhere here that PVC was dangerous to use around plants because of gases that are expelled from the plastic in a hot situation. I thought that I might be alright since I am not using "hot" bulbs... and it certainly would be easier to work with than the aluminum I was thinking of using. Any thoughts about this?

Emmie

Funny you bring this up Em, as last night i was thinking of how i want my tent set up. I thought about just using wood to build a shelve at about 2' high off the floor, but then extend the corners to fit a screen that would slide or attach to the 4 corners. This way i have a place to use for a shelf and when they get to the hight i want them, i then just slide the screen on and its 12/12 time. I also thought about putting hinges on the back to simply flip down when im ready or leave it when i lollipop some, which are my plans. I was thinking 1x2's to build it, but just thinking here, my tents not here yet. Dang :(



Plants look great:rasta:

[Rusty Trichome]

Got half a clothes closet...?

[bigsby]

Nice setup Rusty. And happy new years back at you. Wishing you and the wife all the best.


My first thought was of PVC... I have used it before to good effect making Ham Radio antennas. But I thought I read somewhere here that PVC was dangerous to use around plants because of gases that are expelled from the plastic in a hot situation.

I read somewhere about not using PVC for irrigation systems due to this issue. I have not see this issue posted anywhere though under a 1K light I'm sure you could make the argument. I have not faced any issues. But then, I don't have a crazy hot light either. I would use wood before messing with aluminum. That's way too much work! Just nail together a few 2"x3"s. Let's look into the PVC thing further. It would be a good question to have answered. Anyone else have thoughts?

[Alantae]

Nice! Hoping to see some strong stems soon! How long will you have them in vegetative state? :hippy:

[emilya]

Nice! Hoping to see some strong stems soon! How long will you have them in vegetative state? :hippy:
;)

:) That is a very good Question! I'm a newbie... I have no idea! My only answer to give you is, "However long it takes!" Actually, the plan is to get them to 4 internodes and FIM them, get them up to 12" or so after that and take some clones somewhere in there... When things are going well again... then I will flip the switch. I also want to play with determining sex early with a 12/12 cycle on one branch with a black bag. I'm here to learn all I can man!

I'm guessing another month? It may surprise me... but I'm ready... all geared up and ready to go... come on babies... grow grow grow! :)

Emmie

[neonzr]

lookin good! Glad to so see you got the yellowing/watering situation worked out. I really cant wait to see how the experiment portion of this turns out as far as the early determination of sex goes. All in all they are lookin quite happy, keep up the good work and happy new year!

[WashougalWonder]

......I don't know for sure, but watering them with only a ¼ cup might not be quite enough. I read somewhere that it may cause the roots to turn up to reach the water. Don't let your overwatering episode scare ya..........

That is a possibility. I tried to point out to Emmie that I live in WA State and that I have very high humidity. So in ?Texas? (not sure of flag) and with her lower humidity, she may well need to use more. Low humidity is not bad, the plants can transpire much more quickly and use more water, in this case a great way to get them up to snuff.

I don't think those pots are quite ready for dousing though with the size of the plants.

Growth has been delayed by all this but many folks, including Emmie and myself (on how to give advice better) are learning from this. These plants have turned the corner and will be fine now.

By Fimming, the side branches will grow faster allowing you to take clone cuttings from each. Once rooted the 'mother' can go to flower to positively identify sex. So Emmie will also need to learn how to clone.

As far as building the other item, least expensive other than PVC would be 1x2 furring strips from lowes or home depot. Also depends on tools avail. The furring strips are usually soft still and easy to cut and nail without splitting a lot. I use sheetrock screws tho with a drill.

[emilya]

That is a possibility. I tried to point out to Emmie that I live in WA State and that I have very high humidity. So in ?Texas? (not sure of flag) and with her lower humidity, she may well need to use more. Low humidity is not bad, the plants can transpire much more quickly and use more water, in this case a great way to get them up to snuff.

I don't think those pots are quite ready for dousing though with the size of the plants.

Growth has been delayed by all this but many folks, including Emmie and myself (on how to give advice better) are learning from this. These plants have turned the corner and will be fine now.

By Fimming, the side branches will grow faster allowing you to take clone cuttings from each. Once rooted the 'mother' can go to flower to positively identify sex. So Emmie will also need to learn how to clone.

As far as building the other item, least expensive other than PVC would be 1x2 furring strips from lowes or home depot. Also depends on tools avail. The furring strips are usually soft still and easy to cut and nail without splitting a lot. I use sheetrock screws tho with a drill.

My time to experiment is rapidly coming to an end here as school starts again next week. So, I went to Lowe's yesterday and got the PVC after searching the web extensively looking for warnings about using it in this application. I will send pictures when I get the SCRog table assembled as the lower half of this is going to take the place of the table I have in the grow tent now.

Regarding watering, I got one of those long probe moisture/light/ph meter things and have played with it to figure out what it was showing me. As of this morning I know that if I insert the probe part way into the pot, it appears dry, but if i push it all the way to the bottom, it is still moist. So, I wait to water. I have learned my lesson. When it shows dry all the way down to the bottom, then and only then, I will hit it again. I am still playing with the amount to give them. 1/4 cup seems to dry out pretty rapidly and 1/2 cup seems to get me about 3 days with consistent moisture throughout the pot. I am also rethinking the actual act of watering after seeing how the roots developed in the last pots. Up till now, when I watered I carefully tried to soak the middle of the pot all around the plant. So naturally, this is where the roots developed... straight down from the middle. I'm thinking now that this simple thing was also a mistake, and that I am going to start trying to spread the moisture out to the edges and let the roots move out to it, possibly allowing for more horizontal growth of the root system. So many little things to learn here!

Emmie

[emilya]

Today I wish to show my faithful readers a remarkable turnaround. I took special care in taking some good pictures so that you could clearly see what an incredible change 4 days has made. WW seems to be correct, these plants have turned the corner and now are thriving.

What have I learned? Leave them alone. Water only when they really need it. Don't stress.

Good tools make a big difference too. Good soil, good planter pots with proper drainage, a moisture meter and a hygrometer can make a huge difference. I find that the more completely that I have controlled the environment (light, heat, humidity and fresh air supply) the healthier they seem to become. I see proof in the forum that this can be done in a closet with a few lights strung up, but to get "great" results, I am now convinced that things must be done correctly.

Right now it has been 7 hours since I last commented on the amount to water these babies. The moisture meter still shows that the lower roots have access to moisture in the bottom third of these pots. I have not watered yet, nor will I until I see dry soil at the bottom. This moisture is still left over from almost 3 days ago with 1/4 cup of water.

The following pictures show the result of all this. Four days ago I changed to Happy Frog soil and transplanted. I drastically changed my watering schedule. I put them in a tent that allowed perfect control over light, heat and humidity. Four days ago these plants were dying. They were all yellowing and looking very sick. There was no deep green, and actually where they were not yellow or even turning purple, they showed more of a lime green.

I have added one additional picture today and am posting them all as attachments so you can get higher rez views of them. The additional picture is a wider view of the tent and the first attempt at building a combination planter table/SCRog screen. I will be putting a more sturdy lower base on this design in the next few days to accommodate larger/heavier planters, but other than that, I think this upper screen will work fine and the lower screen will be changed out with something heavier, but still allowing air flow through the table and liquid drip through to a run off container below.

I also want to make sure to thank everyone here for your input and suggestions that have allowed me to get to this point. Without your help, this would not be happening and I would by now be known as a plant murderer. Thank you! I am now confident that this is going to work! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

I used to be a Paramedic in real life

:thumbsup: Good job girl :thumbsup:

[emilya]

Today I am all smiles. All the plants are happy and apparently healthy. A remarkable amount of growth is happening at this point. All the main stems are noticeably thicker, almost a half inch of vertical growth has occurred and secondary leaves are now rapidly growing and extending out of the lower internodes. With the exception of the first leaves on #1, all the yellowed leaves have now filled back in with a deep and healthy looking green.

Unless something significant happens now, I am going to reduce my posting rate to about every other day as I begin to prepare for the new college semester to begin next week. Right now we will wait for the 4th internode to show and watch for the plants to start to mature. I will be taking clones at that point and we will also be doing a FIM operation on each of them. Stay tuned, there is still a lot of learning opportunities to happen in the next month and thankfully we have been able to get to this point.

Here are today's pictures!
Emmie

[stickydankAZ]

Emmie your doing fine
looks like you might be having an nitrogen problem starting
I would feed them a little bit of organic tea
mmmmmm they will love you for it
peace
stickydankAZ

[WashougalWonder]

Emmie your doing fine
looks like you might be having an nitrogen problem starting
I would feed them a little bit of organic tea
mmmmmm they will love you for it
peace
stickydankAZ

If you had bothered to read any of this you would see she is recovering from an overdose issue. You got any idea what you are doing?

[stickydankAZ]

The plants look Like the new growth is healthy the leaves are lifting up and perky I made my choice on the apperance of the color of the leaves.
I didnt read my bad.... there i slapped my own hand thanks for the Jab or punch ouch.. I do grow alot too and organic tea is fine too use/ if you know how too.....

[emilya]

The plants look Like the new growth is healthy the leaves are lifting up and perky I made my choice on the apperance of the color of the leaves.
I didnt read my bad.... there i slapped my own hand thanks for the Jab or punch ouch.. I do grow alot too and organic tea is fine too use/ if you know how too.....

I do appreciate the help Sticky, but please go to msg #103 to see the true color of the leaves under an incandescent light. I think that the red/blue combination in the grow tent washes out some of the green with my cheap camera. Not more than a week ago, I did see lockout happening here and I have that yellowish look now written indelibly in my brain. I still see traces of it in some of the lower leaves here but I think without knowing the camera/lighting situation it is quite hard to go by the color in a picture. This was exactly why I brought them out to an incandescent light yesterday so that everyone could clearly see the turnaround we have made in the last 5 days. :D

Emmie

[steezyd]

you know I think this thread has the most views and post's for plants no bigger then say 6 -7inches?-lol, your doing a good job keeping up w/ it though, and they look happy...I'm sure you cant wait to get some "meat" on them.

[emilya]

you know I think this thread has the most views and post's for plants no bigger then say 6 -7inches?-lol, your doing a good job keeping up w/ it though, and they look happy...I'm sure you cant wait to get some "meat" on them.

Thank you Steezyd! More like 3 1/2 inches so far! LOL What I can't wait for is to get this first crop cured and in my pipe... but I guess I will survive until then. :)

I am a researcher in my real life. I bring this obsessive behavior to this hobby. My goal here on this thread was two fold; I wanted to see if we can prove the fascinating early sexing theory brought to us by WashougalWonder http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-techniques/181139-early-female-id.html#post2068667 , and I wanted to create a true beginners thread where a complete beginner documented her mistakes and learning curve as she figured out how to do this thing we do. This sort of resource was what I looked for on this forum as I began to research, and I am simply trying here to provide the resource that would have helped me in the very beginning not to make the mistakes that I have made.

In the future you will see me document my learning of several other aspects of this as we go on... cloning, FIM, setting up the SCRog and many other interesting things I have read about here. I will be providing links back to the articles that introduced me to the techniques every chance I get. Once we get full into flowering there will not be much of a need to document things as it pretty much goes on autopilot at that point with a SCRog and others have done a fine job in documenting the filling in of the bud sites before me. I will keep everyone informed however, as I know that many will be interested to see what sort of yield and quality I get out of this at the end.

You will see that I have already scaled back reporting a bit now as we have "rounded the corner" and now seem to have viable plants well on their way to maturity. I don't feel there is much to learn with daily reporting at the moment, as my major lesson to just let the plants do what they need to do as I control the environment for them has been learned. I made a ton of mistakes to get to this point, and hopefully I have saved someone from repeating them with my reporting. These points will now be stressed to future readers through my efforts here and in this small way I hope to give back to this community that took me by the hand, showed me friendship from the first moment I introduced myself, and within which many have become my friends. I am very proud that so many are reading this thread each day. It amazes me that we are averaging almost 60 views per day so far and I feel that I am doing some good work here with these efforts.

Thank you everyone who is reading along. I am only succeeding because of you!

Emmie

[bigsby]

you know I think this thread has the most views and post's for plants no bigger then say 6 -7inches?-lol, your doing a good job keeping up w/ it though, and they look happy...I'm sure you cant wait to get some "meat" on them.

Careful dude. You cross her and you'll have 20 teabaggers clanging all kinds of chivalrous armor in your face in her defense... BHA HA HA.

Nice log Emmie. Props. I don't do pics or logs. Perhaps I'll get it together to fix my security issues at some point.

[emilya]

Greetings fellow Cannibers,
It has been 3 days since my last update to the grow log. The pictures tell the whole story, and it is a good one as we have seen about 20% growth. Everyone is mostly a deep and happy green now and getting taller and wider by the day. Secondary leaf sets are now out on every node and developing rapidly. The size of the fan leaves and the main trunks have increased noticeably in just these 3 days.

I have noticed that the moisture uptake into all 4 is not the same. Yesterday 1,2 and 3 all needed water with the moisture meter showing dry all the way down to the bottom. Our runt, as wide as she may be was not using as much water so I let her sit for one more day. Today she was dry and got the water. I am shooting for a 3 day water cycle and have found that at the moment it takes about 3/4 cup to do that... I expect that number to go up. Emmie is watching.

I also got a surprise when 2 days ago we started getting fragrance from these babies. I was not expecting this yet and scrambled for my mouse as I ordered what I needed to make my DIY carbon filter. I have ducted the two tents together by putting the fan in the old closet (for noise reduction and easy access to an attic vent), a Y duct coming out of the closet, and then flexi ducting to each tent. The inline carbon filter will be installed at the fan output and before the ducting that leads to the attic.

Also, the first try at the SCRog table was not good enough. The screen part is probably fine, but the lower planter table was far too weak to be reliable. We are trying a bit bigger PVC and stiffer screen material after my next trip to that Hunky Man Emporium that is known by all as the local Lowe's store.

I am also very pleased to report that the local drought is over. Missouri is now seeing some medium-good grade available at a reasonable price. Just in time for the new semester and tutoring freshman/sophomore students. Emmie is pleased. :thumbsup:

Here are the pictures!

Our short (formerly known as the runt) achiever. She is by far the widest now and standing at a very proud 3".
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6880-31-days-4.jpg

Number 3, definitely a bit different than the rest, but with that distinctive peppery smell of White Widow. Currently 5" tall.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6881-31-days-3.jpg

Number 2, recovered well and standing at almost 5"
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6882-31-days-2.jpg

Number 1, spent some energy eating up the first true leaves. The rest have mostly recovered and he is still growing steaily. Getting wider now and 5" tall
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6883-31-days-1.jpg

Enjoy that football! Go Chiefs! :thumbsup:
Emmie

[emilya]

Let me lead off with a picture. This is a happy plant. It is our #3, the one who looks
a bit different than the others. I brought her out under an incandescent light so you could see her color better.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6949-3-looking-very-healthy.jpg


Here is the whole family! They wanted to come out to meet you guys!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture6950-family-widow.jpg




Right now they are growing noticeably overnight and now are standing at 6" above the dirt. They are all just about as wide now as the 1 gal pots. I am watering now when they need it (show dry at the bottom) at 1 cup every 48 hours or so. Sometimes they go faster and suck up all the water in 36 hours. Then they go slower for a bit. Emmie's watching...




Still no signs of sex yet nor maturity... the internodes are not coming in staggered yet. The most robust growers in the bunch are working on their 5th or 6th internode now. I am waiting for >8" before doing the first FIM to get them ready for a 10" SCRog screen height.




Since these were seeds and we are not at all sure the sex of these yet, we have a small problem. We can't put these permanently under the screen until we are sure it is only girls under there. Stay tuned as sometime very soon we will be tricking one branch into thinking it is in 12/12 on each plant.


Here are the glamor shots! Everyone smile!

Emmie

[Dutch Pimp]

When I was your age?...I would have traded anything for the knowledge you have now; about growing cannabis....:thumbsup:

"teach a man how to fish"...etc..etc....:jointsmile: GOOD LUCK!..enjoy your grow

[canniwhatsis]

One trick I did with my seedlings (because I was scared to "Bend" them) is lay the pots on their sides,... the plant will start growing towards the light,.... do this for a week or so, only uprighting the pot to water, and you have your first bend for LST "No Strings Attached!" :rastasmoke:


After that, tie, tie, tie, and flower.

I didn't FIM my 2 SCROG seed grows, but that would have been a good idea just after the first bend training! ;) :jointsmile:


Edit,... I got 1 male out of the 4 seeds that I cracked from 2 strains (culled one due to varigrated growth) The 2 girls are SCROGed,.... one will die this weekend I think, my White Widow from Nirvana.

My last SCROG showed me a LOT!!! So this round has been MUCH easier :D

[rattlingdags]

They're looking fabulous now Emmy, I'm so pleased for you. Happy growing plants :)
Well done its so nice to see your work paying off.

[emilya]

They're looking fabulous now Emmy, I'm so pleased for you. Happy growing plants :)
Well done its so nice to see your work paying off.

Thanks R.... I am quite pleased with it actually! I have nothing out of the ordinary to report today. Still carefully watching the watering schedule and only watering when the dry indication is all the way to the bottom of the planter pot. I increased the amount I am giving them to try to stretch this wet dry cycle to 3 days... not sure if it will ever achieve that as they have been getting dry mostly within a 48 hour window. At 2 cups of water the soil is being saturated and a little runoff occurs. I don't think we can add any more water at each watering now. Looking for the sign when I am watering dry pots every day and will be re-potting then to the 3 gal planters.

Other than water and the good soil they are in, I have not given these babies anything extra. Temp is being maintained at a steady 75night-78day degrees. Humidity is around 50%. Water is filtered, set out for 24 hours and PH'd to 6.3 or 6.4. Air is constantly refreshed and the lights are on a perfect 18/6 cycle with absolutely no light leaks.

Tallest plants are now pushing the 8" mark and lower stems are developing well with about 3 sets of leaves. I am going to have to start thinking about FIM very soon.

Here is some veg porn for all of you. Today I have let #2 be the star of the show. Be well everyone... :thumbsup:

Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

Bummer.... pics are just slightly too out of focus to sex,... but something is forming there you should be able to tell first hand by now.


Your baby's are looking good! :thumbsup:

Your on the right track with watching for daily watering as a sign of time to up pot. My WW was about a foot and a half tall when I went from 1 gallon to 5. I let her get pretty root bound, but she loved her new home which also included a change in light cycle! :hippy:

My baby girl dies today :( But it's not all bad, she will be joining her many sisters before her, and will bring happiness and relief to many.

[emilya]

Bummer.... pics are just slightly too out of focus to sex,... but something is forming there you should be able to tell first hand by now...

:postgood:

I like it! Its time to learn something new! I am going to get out my loupe and a flashlight today and see what I can see. I need a better camera to get in close.. anyone have any good recommendations for <$200? I'm thinkin Ebay...

At some point they are going to start showing pre-flowers, correct? And that is what I am looking for today. So far I have not been able to see any that didn't look already like leaves... but I will get real close.
:admin1:

Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

The preflowers are already there, I can see something there for sure, but I can't make out sex with the focus. ;)

They will look kinda like leaf formations, I can't find it now, but there was a thread I spotted on using a flashlight to backlight the node, female flowers look like little triangles, males little spots,.... and that's basically even before they are really visible.

Figured I'd toss this pic in just to help,.... You've probably already seen it.
and a couple from tonight, My White Widow Scrog was felled tonight with the help of a couple of my patients trimming only took 2 hours! :pimp:

(Sorry for the crummy Cell phone pics, camera's batteries are dead and we didn't have more! :eek: :( )

Pic 1: ID on preflowers.
Pic 2: before trimming.
Pic 3: 650g waiting to be hung for dry! :rastasmoke:

[emilya]

The preflowers are already there, I can see something there for sure, but I can't make out sex with the focus. ;)

They will look kinda like leaf formations, I can't find it now, but there was a thread I spotted on using a flashlight to backlight the node, female flowers look like little triangles, males little spots,.... and that's basically even before they are really visible.


I have a couple of threads I like a lot... the one you probably mean is this one: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/193390-flashlight-gender-test.html#post2165560
and this one also deserves a good look: http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/191087-males-females-early-recognition.html

I got in there and looked real good this evening. I am pretty sure that I saw a perfect example of a male part, all hanging down and being obnoxious on its own little stalk. The one I found it on is going to amaze my readers so I want to look again tomorrow in better light, just to be sure. Another might be showing me an early male part... but again, a better look and an overnight period might be what is needed to make it clear. I think I am seeing calyx's and even a couple of young single pistils on one of the others, and clearly a first sighting of a double pistil on the last one, again with a surprise for the followers of our little journey in this thread as to which one is showing off her girl parts to us. I will wait till I am sure about this though... stay tuned! It is going to cause a ruckus! ;)

Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

Yep! that's the thread I was thinkin about! ;)


You've got it down pretty well, I'm looking forward to seeing these girls(and boy's) go thru flower! (I'd keep one male and flower him in a separate area for pollen, then breed your own seeds so you don't have to buy them again ;) it's what I did with my WW grow :D )



Sorry about the harvest pics demihyjack,... I wasn't loggin that grow, but figured you might enjoy seeing what you can look forward to if you scrog this strain since you've been setting up for it. :stoned:

[emilya]

Yep! that's the thread I was thinkin about! ;)


You've got it down pretty well, I'm looking forward to seeing these girls(and boy's) go thru flower! (I'd keep one male and flower him in a separate area for pollen, then breed your own seeds so you don't have to buy them again ;) it's what I did with my WW grow :D )



Sorry about the harvest pics demihyjack,... I wasn't loggin that grow, but figured you might enjoy seeing what you can look forward to if you scrog this strain since you've been setting up for it. :stoned:

Thats exactly my plan... grab some pollen in the other tent, and then convert a couple of branches of the girls to seed production. Need to save those seeds for a rainy day and then work from clones for a while as well as experiment with a couple of other strains. It is definitely going to be an interesting summer around here.

yeah, your harvest made me drool. what was that, about 3-4 ounces dry?

[canniwhatsis]

yeah, your harvest made me drool. what was that, about 3-4 ounces dry?

650 grams, 22.9 oz, 1.4 pounds wet :pimp: ....

I figure I'll loose 75% of that weight,.... so 5-6 oz dry/de-stemmed... that's guessing on my previous grows of other strains.




Be really careful with flowering a male,... it's a wind pollenated plant (which you already know) but the pollen will stick to YOU and the female flowers (pistils) will more than willingly grab the pollen off of you!!!! ;)

[gypski]

:postgood:

I like it! Its time to learn something new! I am going to get out my loupe and a flashlight today and see what I can see. I need a better camera to get in close.. anyone have any good recommendations for <$200? I'm thinkin Ebay...

At some point they are going to start showing pre-flowers, correct? And that is what I am looking for today. So far I have not been able to see any that didn't look already like leaves... but I will get real close.
:admin1:

Emmie

overstock.com for cameras. that is where I got mine, if if something goes wrong, they replace with no problems. :thumbsup:

[irydyum]

As far as advice on cameras, a good one can be had for around $100. If you look at the pictures in my albums, all of them were taken with a point and click Canon. Just make sure you have a macro setting available to get good crystal shots.

The trichrome album shots were taken with a $60 usb microscope which IMHO has been the best investment one can make to determine ripeness beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Just my 2 cents :)

Good lookin grow! Lookin forward to seeing it finish:thumbsup:

[canniwhatsis]

As far as advice on cameras, a good one can be had for around $100. If you look at the pictures in my albums, all of them were taken with a point and click Canon. Just make sure you have a macro setting available to get good crystal shots.

The trichrome album shots were taken with a $60 usb microscope which IMHO has been the best investment one can make to determine ripeness beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Just my 2 cents :)

Good lookin grow! Lookin forward to seeing it finish:thumbsup:



What USB microscope is the next question?!? And is it MAC friendly?..... Again sorry Emmy for the jack... :o

[WashougalWonder]

I don't think you need a new camera to get these. Just take a regular photo like you have been and zoom in with the computer program. You sound like you may have proven my theory is Kaput, but best folks know I am full of it. Save some money.

[emilya]

I don't think you need a new camera to get these. Just take a regular photo like you have been and zoom in with the computer program. You sound like you may have proven my theory is Kaput, but best folks know I am full of it. Save some money.

Ok... here is the best I can do with Vivitar technology. I am pretty sure this is showing us that #4, the runt... is a boy.
:chainsaw:

theory Kaput? No. There are 2 big factors here that very well could have skewed the results.

First, #4 was stressed from the very start. He was a J root when "dummy me" plopped him in the dirt upside down. :upsidedow
The second factor is that I am an inexperienced grower. Not only did I stress these plants from the very beginning, I kept terrorizing them throughout at least the first half of their lives. It is possible that I took a perfectly good little girl and scared her so badly that she switched sides. :eek:

More experimentation is needed.

Here are the pictures... please discuss. I am here to learn.
Emmie

[irydyum]

#4 was stressed from the very start. He was a J root when "dummy me" plopped him in the dirt upside down. :upsidedow
The second factor is that I am an inexperienced grower. Not only did I stress these plants from the very beginning, I kept terrorizing them throughout at least the first half of their lives. It is possible that I took a perfectly good little girl and scared her so badly that she switched sides. :eek:
[/LIST]
More experimentation is needed.

Here are the pictures... please discuss. I am here to learn.
Emmie

Just one growers opinion, but I don't think anything you did actually caused it to be a male. Possibility I suppose that you could have influenced the outcome, but typically when people talk about stressing plants into becoming male it's on a plant that had already shown itself to be female.

Odds on this one are that it was a male from the very start. IMHO, looks to be a happy healthy male to me too. It doesn't look to me like you stressed it all that much.

In my experience putting seeds in dirt with taproot down is a wives tale. Maybe it causes them to emerge from soil a day later than they would have, or possibly may cause underground entanglement of roots or something crazy to that effect, but I have put plenty of seeds into dirt haphazardly and never had any issue with it. Thankfully MJ DNA recognizes gravity and automatically grows in the opposite direction for us:thumbsup:

[emilya]

We have another confirmed sexing and a correct assumption using the coloring method...

#2 has been spotted sporting a new double pistil on one of her upper internodes today! It's a girl! There is no way I can get my camera to show you this... but soon... very soon.

The new camera with the micro mode... with 18x optical zoom and focus down to 3mm... the very good buy on ebay... my new fujifilm digital camera is on its way. Check this out... Fujifilm FinePix S2800 14 MP 3.0 LCD Digital Camera | BeachCamera.com (http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=FJS2800) For $179.00 not bad at all. Emmie will soon be known far and wide as a the girl with the great camera, but with absolutely no concept of how to frame a good shot or set a white balance.

These are the trials and tribulations we all must face I guess, each in our own way. I truly hope yours are not as debilitating.

Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

The new camera with the micro mode... with 18x optical zoom and focus down to 3mm... the very good buy on ebay... my new fujifilm digital camera is on its way. Check this out... Fujifilm FinePix S2800 14 MP 3.0 LCD Digital Camera | BeachCamera.com (http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=FJS2800) For $179.00 not bad at all. Emmie will soon be known far and wide as a the girl with the great camera, but with absolutely no concept of how to frame a good shot or set a white balance.

These are the trials and tribulations we all must face I guess, each in our own way. I truly hope yours are not as debilitating.

Emmie

:S2:


Your not the only one to go thru those pains of learning a new device,....

I hate my camera,... $500 bux shoots great vids, and AWESOME detail in every other kind of pic I want to take,... but take a pic of a bud,... out of focus, sorry. :mad:

Ok so not really that bad, but I erase 75% of the bud shots I take:(


So maybe i'm wacked,.... but your sexing thing IS working out? The last pics you posted are male, Keep him to breed your own seeds.

But was "HE" suspected or not? Your last post made it sound like the girl wasn't a surprise at all.

[rattlingdags]

Cripes Emmi No 4 is a twisty in the story thus far. Oh well instead of 'she's a pretty girl' its 'he's a little stud'. A nice plant either way and I also doubt it was anything you did to make 'her' a 'him'.

My last camera was a Fuji Finepix and I loved it but unfortunately the Finepix didn't love the Fine sand that blew all into the insides and stuffed it up. Takes time to get the hang of a new camera but if the new version is as good as the older ones then you'll get some great photos.

Canni it was No 4 who had earlier been the smaller one and suspected of being a little girl but now is displaying his family jewels.
Then there is also No 2 who was all along suspected of being a girl - and so she is.
I think that's right.... and the plot thickens as there's still the other 2 plants.

[canniwhatsis]

wow,..... smoked a little of the "Quick dry" box last night,.... I now know why this stuff is such a legend. 1 hit and my lightweight self was out of it. :bonghit: :stoned:

I'm excited that you've got at least 1 girl and hoping that you'll turn out more!

Looking forward to flowering! :hippy:

[WashougalWonder]

I think they could have been stressed enough to go male, who knows. It is only a theory. I am glad you got at least one female Emmie. That is what is truly important, not proving my theory right or wrong.... If the seed appearance thing works, that might be better anyway and I am experimenting with sprouting and identifying sex, not necessarily growing out, just experimenting. Not enough data yet to know with any confidence any truths.

EDIT: By the way, note how the red is so brilliant and it goes all the way around the leaf petiole? Might be a slight nute deficiency there.

[emilya]

I think they could have been stressed enough to go male, who knows. It is only a theory. I am glad you got at least one female Emmie. That is what is truly important, not proving my theory right or wrong.... If the seed appearance thing works, that might be better anyway and I am experimenting with sprouting and identifying sex, not necessarily growing out, just experimenting. Not enough data yet to know with any confidence any truths.

EDIT: By the way, note how the red is so brilliant and it goes all the way around the leaf petiole? Might be a slight nute deficiency there.

I'm thinking you are right WW. I am noticing a bit of yellowing all of a sudden today. My order of the FoxFarms trio should be here tomorrow... I will hit them on the next watering. As far as the red, do you mean there on the top down picture?

Finished up the second tent's ventilation today and moved #4 to his new digs. I am waiting to see what happens and then will pick the best male to produce some pollen to bring back to my female very carefully. I will probably put the lucky winner into flower very soon and collect the pollen for later when the female(s) are ready. As fast as #4 matured makes him a strong contender for that spot already.

I looked and looked at our 2 remaining and could not decide one way or the other. I think that #1 is about ready to show, and I am betting that this is going to be another boy... I think I am seeing one starting to form on a stalk and think I might see some clustering... I am watching...

#3 is the one I am most confused about. Keep in mind this is the one that looked different than the rest all along. It seems to be a lot further away from maturity than the rest and there are just a few sites starting to develop that will indicate sex. Still waiting on the new camera to be able to get a better look at it.

I figure we are still several weeks from going to flower, but I might be surprised yet again. Several tasks are ahead for the girl(s) in the crowd including re-potting, cloning, FIM and starting to train on the SCRog screen as we recover from all this attention and start growing again.

Right now, the 3 still in the main tent are standing at about 9".

Someone make the snow stop here in the midwest... this is quite enough.

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

No the second and third pictures. First one looks awesome.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but it seems early to have any show.....to me......

Yellowing could be lack of water.

[emilya]

No the second and third pictures. First one looks awesome.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but it seems early to have any show.....to me......

Yellowing could be lack of water.

Watered last night, so we will see. I am seeing other signs of nute deficiency now in #1 again. He seems very sensitive. He is exhibiting slight yellowing on some of the fan leaves and a bit of a copper leaf tips indicators starting up. I am debating just putting the girl in a 3gal pot and new soil when she drys out next or hitting her with the first round of nutes. I'm leaning toward the soil idea... I have a brand new bag of FFOF ready to deploy.

Regarding sexing and being too early: I think what I am starting to understand here is that if one looks carefully, it is pretty apparent when looking at a mature plant which sex it is. The problem is that they don't all get to this point of maturity at the same time. My number 3 is one of those late bloomers and without forcing it to show us sex with various tricks, its just a waiting game. Good optics are going to give me a further edge in this area and give me another several day jump ahead of what I could have done with my naked eyes. My point here is that as a brand new grower, I was under the assumption that this sexing thing was something hard to do and that it was imperative that I learned to do the flashlight method or fooling a branch into thinking it was in 12/12, some method to allow me to find out the sex as early as possible.

Here in the real world where I tend to live, I have learned that if one isn't trying to artificially hurry the process of going into flower, there will be plenty of time to see the sex. I can see reasons that one would want to know sex early in some mass production situations, but for someone planning to take the veg into maturity to go for maximum yield from each single plant, chill... sit back... be vigilant... but don't sweat it... sex happens. :thumbsup:

Emmie

[Dutch Pimp]

some good reading on a winter's day...enjoy

Mandala Seeds FAQ's (http://www.mandalaseeds.com/FAQ)

[emilya]

some good reading on a winter's day...enjoy

Mandala Seeds FAQ's (http://www.mandalaseeds.com/FAQ)
:postgood:

Thanks DP! I learned a bit more reading through that. Fascinating stuff here. WW might be correct in his opinion that it is a bit early to be "showing" just yet and Mandala's site taught me that given stress, a female plant can pop off a male part or two... hmmmm

could this be what is happening on our runt? Could (she) have been impersonating a he, and actually is a she? Seeing no other signs of sex yet other than these two random male parts, maybe it is a bit early yet to be for sure. I am becoming more sure about 1 and 2 who both seem to be doing a whole lot of whatever it is they are doing... #4 seems like a sort of anomaly compared to them. And then there is #3 who seems to be shy... and still isn't being very declarative regarding sex, further adding credence to what WW says about it being a bit early.

This is fun! --Emmie

[emilya]

I got a new toy from the FedEx man today. See if you can figure out what it was.

Today we have some sex shots. Its time to clear up the mystery on 1, 2 and our star... the yet to be identified, runt - #4.

Lets start with a picture of him from a new angle.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture7029-day-42-4-his-hanging-parts-1.jpg

and more convincingly, look at what he is sporting now in the upper node
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture7030-day-42-4-his-hanging-parts-2.jpg

So, I think its pretty certain now. The runt is a boy.

Speaking of bad boys... lets look at our first star, #1... the fastest grower and the cutest bright green all over. I think when he was young WW said he was very sure about this one. Lets look at some of his top growth. I'm more convinced by the hour that this one is another healthy boy.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture7031-day-42-1-his-clusters.jpg

Now lets look at my personal favorite, #2. Always she was right behind #1 in growth and appearance. But lately, I have noticed a bit of a difference here. See if you can see it. ;) That's a double pistil... she has a couple of single ones down lower. It's a girl folks!
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture7032-yes-mom-pistil-has-been-spotted.jpg

I haven't been able to get in and interrogate #3 yet. There is not much to see yet, maybe a bit of growth similar to what we see on #1 starting... another few days will tell.

By the way... Kudos to FedEx. 9 inches of snow last night and he still made it almost all the way to the door. I was impressed.

Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

Your family looks good! :thumbsup: Tough luck with all the males, the one almost looks like a hermie :wtf:

Clone your girl when she's big enough for sure! :greenthumb:




P.S.
FedEx Sux! :p (only because I drive for Big Brown ;) ) 9" what a wuss I was doin the same thing last night.... Cake walk, should have been here in colorado for the "Christmas Blizzard" a couple years ago,.... Like 2 feet in the first one,.. then another a week later,.... then another like 2 weeks after that! :eek: The ice was almost a foot thick in some of the neighborhoods on my route. Several times I spent HOURS digging that truck out WITH full chains on! :o

Ok,.. Rant off, sorry :o

[emilya]

This morning before I head off to school I will let you see what I am seeing on #3. It isn't much, but it is enough to strongly indicate that this one is also a boy. We will keep watching, but please note the stamen flower sitting on its own little stalk there.

By the way, this is almost a total proof that the early sexing method offered to us by WashougalWonder works! I will be watching as more growers attempt to prove this theory.

Have a great day everyone!

Emmie

[rattlingdags]

What a fascinating result with the sexing. Next time I get some seeds I'll be sure to watch them grow with WW's theory in mind, I think it offers very exciting possibilities for early sexing. It sure has added an extra interesting dimension to your log Emmie.

Canni how would you feel about moving to the Netherlands?! Could do with you here. I've been waiting all week for my lights to come from a city only 2 hours away - and there's no damn ice in the way either. So much for one day delivery grrr.

[Rusty Trichome]

Hmmm...I think I have a couple of issues, so what the heck...I might as well get 'em off my chest. :thumbsup:

If the seed-sexing theory is right, this implies that sex is pre-determined.
And if you can stress a female seedling into being male, why don't more newbies suffer from 'over-abundance of males' syndrome'? But, I'm not all that certain the seed-sexing thing is on track anyway.
Granted, I have not tried the technique, but am of the opinion it's likely not reliable. Mainly because during formation, seeds can get squeezed together, pulled, pushed, tugged-on...which can and will distort the attachment point for each seed. I've had seeds long and thin, round and plump, round with a dent or two, almost 'cresent moon' shaped...all from the same strains. Any distortion of the shell does impact the attachment point structure.

And having femmed seeds a few times, (and I still do on occasion) I have never stressed a female into being a male. I've stressed a female to provide pollen sacks, (become hermaphrodite on command) and after harvest I've re-vegged a forced hermaphrodite back into 'normal' female re-growth, but never has stress switched a cannabis plant's sex, in my garden. Since I doubt you change the (sex determing) chromosomes through stress, a sudden and wholesale sex change is unlikely, and nobody has added chemicals to the discussion.

Beware of strains with past or present 'purple' genetics when using the color-coded seedling-sexing, as the normal coloring of the seedling might skew results.
I'm guessing that cooler growroom enviornments might skew coloring, too.

As I previously stated, I haven't tried the seed-sexing. But it just didn't sound right when I first heard it a few years back, and I still have doubts.

[emilya]

Hmmm...I think I have a couple of issues, so what the heck...I might as well get 'em off my chest. :thumbsup:

If the seed-sexing theory is right, this implies that sex is pre-determined.
And if you can stress a female seedling into being male, why don't more newbies suffer from 'over-abundance of males' syndrome'? But, I'm not all that certain the seed-sexing thing is on track anyway.
Granted, I have not tried the technique, but am of the opinion it's likely not reliable. Mainly because during formation, seeds can get squeezed together, pulled, pushed, tugged-on...which can and will distort the attachment point for each seed. I've had seeds long and thin, round and plump, round with a dent or two, almost 'cresent moon' shaped...all from the same strains. Any distortion of the shell does impact the attachment point structure.

And having femmed seeds a few times, (and I still do on occasion) I have never stressed a female into being a male. I've stressed a female to provide pollen sacks, (become hermaphrodite on command) and after harvest I've re-vegged a forced hermaphrodite back into 'normal' female re-growth, but never has stress switched a cannabis plant's sex, in my garden. Since I doubt you change the (sex determing) chromosomes through stress, a sudden and wholesale sex change is unlikely, and nobody has added chemicals to the discussion.

Beware of strains with past or present 'purple' genetics when using the color-coded seedling-sexing, as the normal coloring of the seedling might skew results.
I'm guessing that cooler growroom enviornments might skew coloring, too.

As I previously stated, I haven't tried the seed-sexing. But it just didn't sound right when I first heard it a few years back, and I still have doubts.

just to clear up any confusion...

I did not use the seed shape or examination of the stalk hole (volcano or slit) to determine sex here.
All I used was on day 6, making a guess as to sex based on the color of the stalks and petioles of the seedlings. :rastabanna:

Further experimentation is now needed to see if this method actually got us a 100% identification. The question has to do with #4. According to WW's theory, #4 was the one who exhibited the strongest indicator at day 6 of being female. He was however stunted all of his life and I strongly believe that it was this stress that caused him to become a male. We have referred to him all along as "the runt." There are plenty of opinions out there that stress can and will cause a higher percentage of males in a population. If this is what happened, then clones of #4 grown correctly will not be males and we will have proven that the early sexing method at least in this case resulted in 100% identification. It will also show that sex can change overall because of stress. I will be taking clones to attempt to prove this very soon. You have me very curious now Rusty about this and how total of a transformation can be made by a plant because of stress, but I agree that on a chromosome level, if she started as a female, #4 would still be a female although exhibiting male characteristics... and if so, she/he has just become a very valuable plant. It would be fascinating to get him to change again after harvest and revegging and make him go female next round, but I am going to save that for another experimenter. Who knows? Cloning may prove that #4 was a male all along. In a couple of months, if I have any shred of scientist in me, we will know what happened here.

The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!:thumbsup:

Emmie

[Rusty Trichome]

Figured I'd throw the seed-sexing thing as a bonus, since they are both yet-unproven techniques mentioned in this thread.
Kudo's to WW for thinking outside the box though.

I'm fairly confident that genetic expression of sex is likely pre-determined at the moment of pollination. (that's how we know the femmed seeds have to be female, no?)
No matter what the stressor, (unless chemical) you are not likely to change the chromosomes (which control sexual expression) through overwatering, overfeeding, cooling, heating...
Make a hermaphrodite...sure. Actually change sexes...? I don't think so.

A (verified and confirmed) female can be stressed to produce male-type flowers. Some call them male nanners, but this is wrong. They are female nanners. (nanners on a female plant) There are no male chromosomes in the pollen. Any female plant you pollinate with this pollen will have femmed seeds. This means the offspring from that pollen will all be 100% female. The lady plant you get the pollen from hasn't switched sexes, she's altered her 'genetic sexual expression' as a result of the stress. (being an annual, it's a survival technique cannabis uses to assure the continuing of the species)

I think you're putting the cart before the horse though. Learn to grow, THEN learn to breed. :thumbsup:

[emilya]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse though. Learn to grow, THEN learn to breed.

I tried to let this drop, but as the day drags on here this comment just keeps demanding that I respond:

I assumed that was what I was doing here, learning to grow... excuse me for allowing myself to think that I might be able to learn a few more advanced things before my time. :mad:

A cart with no horse indeed? It seems that for me to keep growing I need to learn to clone and make seeds since I can't afford to keep buying seeds from other people. I guess since I am a newbie I have to allow you to chide me for discussing genetics and the possibilities of feminized seeds resulting from my work here, but I certainly don't have to like it. You don't know me very well, but I will let you in on a secret... I am capable of learning quite a few things, all at the same time. I am also going to never be shy about asking a question to help me do this.

I value the experience and knowledge you bring to this table, but please never tell me what questions I am allowed to ask.

Emmie

[gypski]

I tried to let this drop, but as the day drags on here this comment just keeps demanding that I respond:

I assumed that was what I was doing here, learning to grow... excuse me for allowing myself to think that I might be able to learn a few more advanced things before my time. :mad:

A cart with no horse indeed? It seems that for me to keep growing I need to learn to clone and make seeds since I can't afford to keep buying seeds from other people. I guess since I am a newbie I have to allow you to chide me for discussing genetics and the possibilities of feminized seeds resulting from my work here, but I certainly don't have to like it. You don't know me very well, but I will let you in on a secret... I am capable of learning quite a few things, all at the same time. I am also going to never be shy about asking a question to help me do this.

I value the experience and knowledge you bring to this table, but please never tell me what questions I am allowed to ask.

Emmie

Not many lady growers, and the only bad question is the one unasked. :thumbsup:

[rattlingdags]

Reading Emmie's log is one of the fun parts of my day. Its so refreshing to read from a new grower that is interested in the science of growing, the compexities of genetics and has the enthusiasm/intelligence to absorb what she reads and put it into action.
Such a change from newbie questions of: how many hundreds of plants can I grow under 1000's W lights, or how many onzes can I get from a plant under a 30W bulb.

[WashougalWonder]

Emmie, personally I think #4 is/has been male all the way....it always looked different than the others. I do not think it will be a source to get feminized seeds. Remember a theory only becomes fact after thousands of tests, and so far you are the only one who has bothered to test the theory.

Actually I am glad Rusty questions the theory. That is what makes this forum so good. I question my own theory. Still do even after all this, as I have some unpublished info I am still working on showing me it may be just a fluke or strain related.

I pick my best plant out of a set of seeds and only continue that one plant with cloning. In the beginning, that means you have to be able to identify each individual. Once harvested and cured, then you know which is the best albeit for the growth pattern and type of effect from the plant that you prefer. Then you toss all the rest and just keep cloning. You want seeds, you stress it with light and get some pollen and make your seeds.

Ya nothing wrong with asking about other stuff to learn, it all adds up eventually and comes together in a nice package.

[Rusty Trichome]

I tried to let this drop, but as the day drags on here this comment just keeps demanding that I respond:

I assumed that was what I was doing here, learning to grow... excuse me for allowing myself to think that I might be able to learn a few more advanced things before my time. :mad:
It wasn't the statement that made you respond...it was your opinion of the content that made you answer. Again...learn the basics, then learn the advanced. You can't learn trigonometry till you learn to add. You can't tune the engine till you know where the hell the engine block is, and you can't optimize your results until you know the basics. You are inexperienced and as such your assumptions have been off base.

I value the experience and knowledge you bring to this table, but please never tell me what questions I am allowed to ask.
Emmie
Apparently you only value the experience and knowledge, if the responder blows smoke up your butt telling you what a fine job you're doing. I'm not that kind of guy. And did you make-up the part where I said not to ask questions...or is that just you making shit up as you go along...? :wtf:

If you wish to attempt breeding, go for it. You might just pull it off. But if you are unfamiliar with troubleshooting techniques, (or proper watering techniques, or nutrients and their schedules...) you are putting the cart before the horse.

Also, when you make statements like the one I highlighted below, I fell the resultant anger from you is misguided. You haven't a clue yet as to the difficulties of proper breeding and you have no idea the heartache of screwing-up your genetics. Which, by the way, can cost you more than a couple of months of heartache because all of a sudden your seedlings aren't growing right.

just to clear up any confusion...

The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!:thumbsup:

Emmie
Not only can you screw-up this grow, you can screw-up successive seed genetics.
I have never said you (or anyone else on CanCom) couldn't ask questions. It wasn't a question that caught my eye here, it was your statement above that threw-up a big, red flag.

Any moron can apply pollen to a pistil. Hell, it doesn't even take a moron...But it takes time and a knowledge of your plants to keep from risking fatal errors. This is why I think you should allow yourself more experience before you screw yourself out of a successful learning experience.
Be careful throwing pollen around and operating under the assumption that that's all there is to breeding. Your yields and your genetics will suffer.

Instead of getting your panties in a wad...had you asked...most any gardener in here would likely guide you through the first attempt or two at breeding...but it looks like you've got a handle on things and you can "ego" your way through the fog of ignorance. Good luck with that. :cool:

[emilya]

Emmie, personally I think #4 is/has been male all the way....it always looked different than the others. I do not think it will be a source to get feminized seeds. Remember a theory only becomes fact after thousands of tests, and so far you are the only one who has bothered to test the theory.

Actually I am glad Rusty questions the theory. That is what makes this forum so good. I question my own theory. Still do even after all this, as I have some unpublished info I am still working on showing me it may be just a fluke or strain related.

I pick my best plant out of a set of seeds and only continue that one plant with cloning. In the beginning, that means you have to be able to identify each individual. Once harvested and cured, then you know which is the best albeit for the growth pattern and type of effect from the plant that you prefer. Then you toss all the rest and just keep cloning. You want seeds, you stress it with light and get some pollen and make your seeds.

Ya nothing wrong with asking about other stuff to learn, it all adds up eventually and comes together in a nice package.

Thank you WW. It is a new day. It has stopped snowing and it might just melt enough to allow me to get to school on Monday. I am in a much better mood.

Here I sit looking around at the couple of thousand $$'s of stuff I have put together to grow my garden. At the moment, in the middle of this two tent laboratory of growing I have 4 plants. It looks like I have 1 female and 3 males. I have lots of space and equipment, a curious mind, and essentially one active plant. I need a project, and my intensely curious mind tends to find them. So I ask questions. I reach out and I grow. I learn.

I still go back to three things here. I feel confident that I might be able to find some lab room and available time to be able to follow through with the experiment. We start by following up the loose ends we have created in our original experiment to prove that early sexing by color works. I feel that already this theory has proven itself to me, but there are a few questions that have been raised.


First, out of 4 plants, I got 3 males. This is outside the normal curve and makes me start to wonder if I have become part of the experiment. I know that this bad luck happens (and bet that it happens a lot to new growers)... but still, it makes me wonder.

The second thing is that #4 according to your theory, was clearly the best representative of what a female should have looked like. She was a beautiful deep red all along the main stem and was one of them you felt confident about, or at least as much as you could through a picture.

And the third thing is that for whatever reason, #4 was stunted all along and all of the stress on this poor plant could have caused a transformation in sexual expression. Not likely... but the theory is there that it could happen.

These three things tell my logical mind that there is a chance... however slight, that #4 genetically is a female.

It's not going to be that hard to find out if this is true by keeping the experiment going a bit longer. As an added benefit, Emmie learns to clone, practices keeping good records and notes on the grow, gets to use all this fancy equipment laying around here, and best of all... continues to get all you old experts talking to her about growing stuff. It don't get better than this.

Big hugs... everyone have a great day!
Emmie

[emilya]

I have never said you (or anyone else on CanCom) couldn't ask questions. It wasn't a question that caught my eye here, it was your statement above that threw-up a big, red flag.

Just what was I stating?
I quote myself:


The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!

I see here 2 statements, and a question. I'm not sure which statement you are upset with.

If it is instead the question that you are having issues with, please stop yelling at me about my attempts to do breeding and explain. I see lots of warnings and statements as to my competence and personality, but I see nothing to answer my original question.

Rusty... I want to be friends. I am not trying to be egotistical or think that I can do this alone. I make wrong assumptions because I am new... and I do it in public on this forum because I am inviting experts like you to come in and teach me. (and those who read this thread in the future) I want you to embrace my curiosity, and help me to learn... not tell me and all the future readers that they are not worthy somehow because of their inexperience to think beyond the box. Yes, experience is the greatest teacher, but please, don't think that all newcomers are the same. Some of us have the time, money and intelligence to actually become great at this. I would love to proudly exclaim that it was you who was one of my greatest teachers if I ever do get good at this.

Emmie

[Dutch Pimp]

everybody play nice..:)...look!..over there...puppies...:jointsmile:

[tikiroom]

Squirrel!

[GaGrown]

Squirrel!

Talk abut Up a Tree without a nut! Run Squirrel,Run!

[Dutch Pimp]

Talk abut Up a Tree without a nut! Run Squirrel,Run!
where?...where?...no place to run

[GaGrown]

where?...where?...no place to run

That Damn possum looks like he'd eat a squirrel..

[TANKJR]

Emmie, It sounds to me like it's time to start learning to clone....ya got one female and room and equipment for much more...maybe make her a mom and start cloning from her to get something to put in those tents and start making them make you (or save you) some money and keep you in good smoke. Everybody has their good days and bad days, good crops and bad crops, and you will too, but cloning will get you where ya want to be much faster than breeding and seeding, plus, no more wondering if it's a male or not, plus you have the start of a good mom and empty rooms waiting for something to grow....toss the males and start cloning! While breeding your own strains sounds like fun and your inquisitive mind wants to try it now, you'll be happier (and higher!) if you put the breeding thing aside for a later date and start growing some weed...so far you've got a big long grow log for one little plant and the attention of all the great growers on here... start using what ya got, learn to grow them big and beautiful, and clone and get a stash going for yourself and leave the breeding for later on. Just my 2 cents, girl, but I want to see ya grow something out all the way before you start with all the experiments and breeding and just plain growing takes enormous patience and observation, especially the last few weeks...no offense, but most college kids don't have much patience yet...I don't consider that a fault at all, but the tendency is to dive in too deep, too fast, and get lost. ALWAYS remember the KISS principle! ALWAYS!

[Rusty Trichome]

Just what was I stating?
I quote myself:


The exciting thing here for me as a new grower is the situation I now find myself in. If I have a switched female and he is now producing pollen, and I then take that pollen back to my mother and produce seeds, does this not produce feminized seeds? Talk about turning a negative into a positive!

I see here 2 statements, and a question. I'm not sure which statement you are upset with.
I'm not at all upset. But what I saw were two statements and a desire for confirmation.


If it is instead the question that you are having issues with, please stop yelling at me about my attempts to do breeding and explain. I see lots of warnings and statements as to my competence and personality, but I see nothing to answer my original question.
I was trying to help you by not letting you turn an issue into a disaster. The early sexing is unproven, and you were trying to make improper assumptions about the genetics of the pollen you are about to recieve.

Again...once a plant's 'natural' sex is set, there is no evidence the sex can be changed by enviornment or handling. You can stress it into a self-pollination phase, where it throws-out nanners, but that is a totally different thing. The pollen from ladies have no male chromosomes. But you were combining that with the assumption that the seedling switched sexes on ya. This line of thinking can get the ball rolling for a whole plethra of incorrect assumptions.
I thought it best to nip it in the bud before you have to re-learn proper plant biology. Perhaps I was wrong in speaking-up, but you needed the info, regardless.

Rusty... I want to be friends. I am not trying to be egotistical or think that I can do this alone. I make wrong assumptions because I am new... and I do it in public on this forum because I am inviting experts like you to come in and teach me. (and those who read this thread in the future) I want you to embrace my curiosity, and help me to learn... not tell me and all the future readers that they are not worthy somehow because of their inexperience to think beyond the box. Yes, experience is the greatest teacher, but please, don't think that all newcomers are the same. Some of us have the time, money and intelligence to actually become great at this. I would love to proudly exclaim that it was you who was one of my greatest teachers if I ever do get good at this.

Emmie
I have no beef with you other than you trying to get ahead of yourself and getting all prissy when someone posts anything other than an e-pat on the ass. When I see an issue, I address it. I don't go around the boards picking on idiots and those less fortunate than I, nor do I go looking to blow smoke up anyone's ass.

Patience in the growroom is a commodity you'll need to search for, as jumping the gun can and will cause heartache.
Never did it cross my mind that you were lacking intelligence. But I do see some character traits you can work on to help you overcome the manic-depressive hobby that is cannagardening. Patience, tollerance, attention to detail are all necessary if you really want to keep learning proper techniques and plant biology. And the wrost mistake you can make is to read a technique or process, and jump-in neck deep chasing those techniques that are above your pay-grade.
For instance, in the post where you thought you had changed the sex of a seedling from female to male, but were still (seemingly) willing to use the pollen...is folly. If you have not kept strict control of your pollen donors, (and their pollen) the seeds should be considered 'bagseed'. And until you can understand some of the other more advanced techniques like selective breeding, back-crossing, stressing techniques...likely you should stick with breeding known studs-n-ladies. (not trying to feminize seeds till you know you won't ruin your seed genetics) If it takes yelling from the rooftops to keep a newbie from making big mistakes, I'll be the one on the rooftop yelling his ass off.

Listen...I'm not an educator, and I'm not a social worker nor a politician. I'm not a psychologist offering the latest in "everything's going to be all right' theology. I'm a former construction foreman trying to pay forward what was freely given to me. If I step on toes, it's not because I want to step on toes...it's because they were there when I stepped-in to help.

If you need help with your thesis, give me a holler...haven't you heard....? I know EVERYTHING, lol. :thumbsup:
(good luck with it, regardless)

[emilya]

Thank you both Rusty and TankJr!

First let me say that I am sorry for getting all upset earlier. Your last note Rusty was a gem... and now I feel I understand you much better and I can see that you really were trying to help me earlier. I am a girl... I know it may seem silly to a man, but it was just the tone of that message that got me going. The written word is so difficult to deal with sometimes and things can get misunderstood. What you both did here in these last messages is to explain to me "why" these things I was thinking of doing were bad ideas... you didn't tell me no... you explained. Thank you.

I have re-thought things here after carefully considering both of your messages to me and you are right. I need to consider why I am doing this. I want some harvest. I still have no idea what I am doing and I need to concentrate on the task at hand and save my curious mind and experiments for later.

I have had a success here. I have a viable female plant. I needed to figure out the most logical way to move forward from here and make my grow operation a success.

So my focus went to my female. She was starting to show a deficiency, so I moved her to the next size pot and new FFOF soil. She has started responding already and this week I am going to take 4 clones. The males in the last group need to be destroyed. There is still one, #3 that has not convinced me it is male... so it will live, for now.

Thank you everyone for putting up with my my rantings as I learn. :greenthumb:

Emmie

[TANKJR]

We're here to help:)...you get one "atta girl!"...there was another point I forgot to add before in the last post (I always forget something when posting blazed!)...if you were my daughter, I would not care if you grew weed while going to school, but I would definitely want you to make and keep school the priority and keep the weed a hobby...breeding and seeding would make that more difficult than cloning would imo.

Another thing...if you want to have four clones to grow, take 8. That way, should some have problems, you can just pick the 4 BEST to grow out. If she's not big enough, just take 4 now, and 4 in another few weeks...try to start with more than you plan to have when finished to account for attrition along the way. It used to break my heart to kill a clone, but now, if they are not robust, they get trashed...It's just a waste of precious space to try to coax a stunted runt to finish, but the better you get at cloning, the fewer you have to trash.

He he construction foreman, eh?....I'm no teacher either...I'm a mechanic who fixes things...cars boats planes trains electric gas or steam! And occasionally a plant!:stoned: I just fixed part of one into a nice doobie! LOL!:stoned:

[rattlingdags]

Just wanted to give a :thumbsup: to the posts here the last couple of days.

Having just now browsed through the forum and encountered several obnoxious spoilt bratty threads its a welcome relief to return here and find things settled so calmly. Don't mean that to sound pompus or something, just fair dinkum.

[Rusty Trichome]

Nice to have ya back...:jointsmile:

Let the plant recover before assaulting it again. After every procedure, (transplanting, taking clones, re-vegging...) I give at least a week before doing anything else. This helps keep you from over-stressing the plant, and is part of the patience you'll need to develop for continued success.

Whether talking to a male or female, I still approach issues with brutal honesty. Gets me in hot water more often than not, but my position is usually clear and occationally concise. :thumbsup:

[WashougalWonder]

Rusty, I have the same issues, too friggin blunt, honest, but not delicate. I think with Emily, if you just explain why, she will see the light. The advantage of an educated adult to deal with over children trying to get high.

I too am glad we are all friends again. Had some trouble watching, but kept fingers shut.

One big happy family.

You taken clones yet Em?

[emilya]

Rusty, I have the same issues, too friggin blunt, honest, but not delicate. I think with Emily, if you just explain why, she will see the light. The advantage of an educated adult to deal with over children trying to get high.

I too am glad we are all friends again. Had some trouble watching, but kept fingers shut.

One big happy family.

You taken clones yet Em?

Not yet WW... heeding the advice of my elders and waiting a week after the transplanting. I have a new 3 gal pot to figure out how to water now... and that has my full attention. Well almost full, I still have #3 whom I did not transplant so I can play with fixing his nute deficiency with the liquid stuff just to see how it works. Still not 100% sure on the sex of that one yet.

This weekend will be a week after the transplant and I will take 4 clones at that time. The mother is now standing at 11" tall and will probably FIM her next week (after recovering from cloning) to see that work. Then I plan on 4 more clones spaced out about 3 weeks apart from the first batch.

The temptation in front of me and the advice I seek now from the collected experts is this: If I manage to get 6 or 8 viable clones going in the next 3-4 weeks, would you keep this original as a mother in a veg state or would you now grow her out and keep one of the new clones as a new mother? Keep in mind that I am not doing SOG, so I don't have a need to get 20 clones, just 2 strong plants will fill my 30"x50" screen. I just need to keep the line alive. What are the advantages/disadvantages of keeping her going, vs getting to a small harvest about 5-8 weeks earlier?

Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

If I manage to get 6 or 8 viable clones going in the next 3-4 weeks, would you keep this original as a mother in a veg state or would you now grow her out and keep one of the new clones as a new mother? Emmie

SOG the mother, you have already sexed her, so any clones will be her, some more viable than others.....just keep cloning off the strongest one, making plants to flower.....If you only need one.....like I do with Thai, when it gets too big, clone, and toss the mother once the clone has taken. I did that for over a year while figuring out how to make it flower properly.

I call this perpetual gardening, always having a clone start, an infant/adolescent, and the flowering plant. It takes 2 light setups and total isolation of light between the two setups.....the good part is you can use cfl for the babies.

[bigsby]

Keep in mind that I am not doing SOG, so I don't have a need to get 20 clones, just 2 strong plants will fill my 30"x50" screen.

Why only 2 under this screen? To fill that you are going to have to veg them way out. Why not go for 4 or even 6 smaller plants? You will reduce the veg time by half at least. Also note that you can FIM them quite a bit earlier. The common wisdom is after the fifth real node. Forced branching will help fill the screen faster.

[emilya]

Why only 2 under this screen? To fill that you are going to have to veg them way out. Why not go for 4 or even 6 smaller plants? You will reduce the veg time by half at least. Also note that you can FIM them quite a bit earlier. The common wisdom is after the fifth real node. Forced branching will help fill the screen faster.

:) You are probably right Bigsby. I have no idea how much this screen will fill, but when I have 6-8 clones sitting here I will no doubt be looking at using a few more to get a full screen. I like the idea of not having to veg out for 3 months before going to flower.

That 5th node was quite a ways back there... and I have read recommendations to do the FIM after the 3rd or 4th node too. I was then advised that after the FIM there wouldn't be a lot of vertical growth, so I figured that I had to get to at least 10-11 inches before doing it since that is the height of the screen. I need to see what happens after the FIM and how much growth happens after switching to flower so I can get a better idea how to best fill this screen.

I need clarification on 2 terms you used above... "real node" how does a real node compare to a "not real node?" Also, what do you mean by forced branching? Are you referring to the increase in growth from the lower branches after the FIM?

Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

I do larger plants like that under my screens because I'm limited to count, but Biggs has a point,... you can get a quicker turn around, (tho lower yield per plant) going with smaller plants.



Ideally one should keep the seed grown as a mother and flower clones from the F1, but there's nothing wrong with flowering mom while veging in a clone for round 2 :D

I keep 1 clone off of my seed grow as a Mother plant, at least if I don't get another girl from the rest of my beans I'll still have the genetic hangin around! ;)

[bigsby]

You are probably right Bigsby. I have no idea how much this screen will fill, but when I have 6-8 clones sitting here I will no doubt be looking at using a few more to get a full screen. I like the idea of not having to veg out for 3 months before going to flower.

Your estimate of 3 months veg to fill a 30" x 50" screen with 2 plants is probably/possibly ;) (likly) pretty accurate. Consider that you could do 6 plants @ 4 - 6 weeks veg + 2 months flower. That's a savings of 6 to 8 weeks! So in one year you could manage 4 harvests with the smaller plants vs. 2.4 harvests with the bigger plants. Yes, your yield per plant will be lower but overall yield will be similar. Essentially you double your potential yield per year. I have no idea about motives. I grow strictly for personal use within my house. No one else. Not friends, not family. It isn't worth the risks. So 3 harvests @ 4 - 6 plants is plenty in my case.

Considering the screen for a moment, there are a number of factors in play. Strain has a good deal to do with it. Some stavias will more than triple in size after flipping to flower. In such a scenario the screen will fill up pretty fast, even with a small plant. Some indicas might not even double in size. The rule of thumb is to fill the screen 40 - 60 percent before flip (strain dependent). Also keep in mind that FIMming will slow down your plant as does SCroG training. +1 week for each minimum. And don't get hung up on achieving a 9" stem... here comes a joke... no seriously - every plant will be different so you will have varying sizes. Go look at the grow logs by user bigtopsfinn. I learned a good deal about SCroG there.


I was then advised that after the FIM there wouldn't be a lot of vertical growth, so I figured that I had to get to at least 10-11 inches before doing it since that is the height of the screen.

That's not really accurate. You no longer have a main stem (or cola for that matter) so it is certainly easier to train flat after FIMming but the plant still wants to, and will grow vertically.


I need clarification on 2 terms you used above... "real node" how does a real node compare to a "not real node?" Also, what do you mean by forced branching? Are you referring to the increase in growth from the lower branches after the FIM?

The first real node is the set of leaves after the cotyledon leaves - I'm sure you know this... FIMming is a technique that forces or at least encourages branch growth when done properly. I definitely recommend FIMming with a SCroG.

[emilya]

Thank you Bigsby! :postgood:

A lot of good information there. Now I see much more clearly how this works and what I need to do. Of course it won't go perfectly, but I can see now that I will be able to do what I want to do. I don't need crazy amounts here, its just me and my brother and we have a relative with MS that will be helped a great deal with our efforts. I can see that if all goes reasonably well, by the end of the first full scrog with 4-6 plants, I will have all I need for many months of this powerful strain.

At that point I just wanted to experiment a bit. I do love White Widow and I will probably keep one going for several grows so I can judge other strains against what I have learned about its growth patterns, but I have many strains I am very curious about and have never smoked... Jack Herer for example... Diesel... Kush... and I plan on trying them out.

I also got a package of 20 free seeds with my last order and as far as I understand these are seeds that growers have given back to the Amsterdam folks as examples of the strains they grew. This is pretty exciting to me... a grab bag of possibly 20 different types of beans! I can not see how this will be anything but very interesting as I work through that bag over the next couple of years. I fully intend to have a collection of Mason jars someday with a connoisseurs collection of tastes and heads that I can enjoy with my closest friends.

Immediate plans:

I am still waiting on my clone dome to show up. Tomorrow is day 49 and a week after my transplant to the 3 gal pot. The top growth is at the perfect point for the FIM. I think I will do that instead of the cloning tomorrow and then wait another week to do the clones when I am all set up and ready for them.

I still have some more reading to do about cloning anyway as I find I still have some questions. Such as, if my lower branches now are long enough that I could take just part of the branch as the clone... is there any advantage in this for the new clone? Is it better to be taller and have to strip leaves off... or is it better to leave half of the branch so that it can split off a couple more branches for cloning on the mother?

The fun thing that I can report as of tonight is the reduction of stress in my current grow. No longer am I looking at it as 4 plants that may or may not survive and all this time and money invested that I may or may not have wasted. Now I know that this is going to work. I may just have one plant left, but she is going to now turn into many more, and that makes me feel good. It's a good place to be in, and I hope that all the new growers out there get a chance to get to this point if they are serious about learning how to garden. I know I still have a lot to learn, but I definitely feel I have reached a milestone. Already the work is going to pay off as my mother now will provide for the future as she gives back the love I gave her.

It is a good day here. I hope yours is going as well! :thumbsup:

Emmie

[gypski]

Thank you Bigsby! :postgood:

A lot of good information there. Now I see much more clearly how this works and what I need to do. Of course it won't go perfectly, but I can see now that I will be able to do what I want to do. I don't need crazy amounts here, its just me and my brother and we have a relative with MS that will be helped a great deal with our efforts. I can see that if all goes reasonably well, by the end of the first full scrog with 4-6 plants, I will have all I need for many months of this powerful strain.

At that point I just wanted to experiment a bit. I do love White Widow and I will probably keep one going for several grows so I can judge other strains against what I have learned about its growth patterns, but I have many strains I am very curious about and have never smoked... Jack Herer for example... Diesel... Kush... and I plan on trying them out.

I also got a package of 20 free seeds with my last order and as far as I understand these are seeds that growers have given back to the Amsterdam folks as examples of the strains they grew. This is pretty exciting to me... a grab bag of possibly 20 different types of beans! I can not see how this will be anything but very interesting as I work through that bag over the next couple of years. I fully intend to have a collection of Mason jars someday with a connoisseurs collection of tastes and heads that I can enjoy with my closest friends.

Immediate plans:

I am still waiting on my clone dome to show up. Tomorrow is day 49 and a week after my transplant to the 3 gal pot. The top growth is at the perfect point for the FIM. I think I will do that instead of the cloning tomorrow and then wait another week to do the clones when I am all set up and ready for them.

I still have some more reading to do about cloning anyway as I find I still have some questions. Such as, if my lower branches now are long enough that I could take just part of the branch as the clone... is there any advantage in this for the new clone? Is it better to be taller and have to strip leaves off... or is it better to leave half of the branch so that it can split off a couple more branches for cloning on the mother?

The fun thing that I can report as of tonight is the reduction of stress in my current grow. No longer am I looking at it as 4 plants that may or may not survive and all this time and money invested that I may or may not have wasted. Now I know that this is going to work. I may just have one plant left, but she is going to now turn into many more, and that makes me feel good. It's a good place to be in, and I hope that all the new growers out there get a chance to get to this point if they are serious about learning how to garden. I know I still have a lot to learn, but I definitely feel I have reached a milestone. Already the work is going to pay off as my mother now will provide for the future as she gives back the love I gave her.

It is a good day here. I hope yours is going as well! :thumbsup:

Emmie

:twocents: Starting @ Page 31 Marijuana Botany, your cuttings should be from 4-18". You should have at least a couple of nodes on each was what I originally read and always do. but, I like RC Clarke's book (it was his Masters Thesis) to refresh on. And he gives a range of three to six weeks for hardening off. :D

[canniwhatsis]

Cloning is pretty easy,.... and you have the fortune of growing in soil so it's even easier.

I like to go with slightly smaller clones than Gypski's post, I cut 4-5 nodes which are around 4" tall

Then I'll use the edge of a razor to lightly scrape the side of the stem for the bottom 1.5" or so. (I try to make sure there is a node in that space, just shave the node off, but not clean, leave a little bump, this isn't needed but seems to help IMO)

Most would do a second cut at a 45* angle and "Dip" in cloning solution like "Clonex" here,... but I like to have a puddle of Clonex on a piece of wax or parchment paper that I'll roll the stem in, then I'll do the 2nd 45* cut with the whole stem immersed in the solution.

Either way, from there,... insert into rapid rooter plug. (don't use the factory hole, get a bamboo skewer and poke a hole off to the side, then insert your cutting into that hole) Place into a tray and under a humidity dome.

Keep the humidity at 100% for the first week or so, and make sure the plug doesn't dry out,... but don't keep it soaking wet.

Once you've got roots poking out the sides of the plug you can start to "harden" the plant off to lower humidity by cracking the vents on the dome,.... Couple days later you're good to stuff your new baby's in some soil and get your grow on! :hippy:

Quickest roots I've seen (out the sides of the plug) was 4 days,... longest took a bit over 2 weeks. :)

[emilya]

Just a little update...

I am a plant murderer. There. I said it. :rambo:
#4 and #1 are no longer with us. They were sacrificed for the good of the grow and to further my education. First, I wanted to see if you could smoke a male plant with any effect. Second, I wanted to run through some curing steps in my mind. Good thing I practiced now too.

Just leave out one little detail and so much can go wrong is the lesson I learned today. After the herbal evisceration I hung my two grow room rejects from their heels in the unused grow tent. Lights and heater were off. I figured, a week to dry. So this morning I went in to check and found mold starting. Guess what I forgot? A fan. :error: At least I did this now and not when real harvest comes along. Practice practice...:fish:

#3 still is a mystery. It is definitely a different phenotype and is maturing very slowly... or at least it isn't wanting to reveal its sex like the others did. This could still go either way, so I repotted him/her yesterday.

#2 got her first haircut today. FIM was the result and I took all but 10% of the new cola away and smoked it. Thats right... I'm not proud of it, but I smoked it. :jointsmile: The result looks like all the pictures and in a couple days I will show you the new growth that results from this lobotomy. Both plants seem to be happy and now are 12" tall. Next steps will be to get some clones and start putting them under the screen.

Emmie

p.s. The first picture is #3 still deciding to be an innie or an outie
The other two are scenes from the midair collision of #2 with an exacto knife

[Rusty Trichome]

Before you go chopping them bald, you might want to practice the cloning. One cutting per plant till you get the feel for it. Sucks chopping the mother plants all up, then lose all the clones for some unforseen reason.

[emilya]

Before you go chopping them bald, you might want to practice the cloning. One cutting per plant till you get the feel for it. Sucks chopping the mother plants all up, then lose all the clones for some unforseen reason.

Thanks Rusty! Again great advice! And, proudly I can tell you that I was thinking along the same lines the other day and took some clones of #3 to practice with. They started out under DIY coke bottle humidity domes. 3 out 4 seem to be making it. In a few days it will be time to practice some more with #2. I promise not to chop her bald :)

While I got you here :)... check out the attached picture. This is #3 with some of the strangest preflowers I have seen. There are groups of 2 of these dark stalk things all over the plant embedded in a growth that almost looks like a male preflower... but today this dark thing broke free of its mass and if my eyes are not deceiving me, she is lifting her skirts to show us a brand new pistil. Its not like anything I have seen in any of the books though.

Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

Well, I can say that is one of the best pics Ive seen on this site! ;) All round + 100 rep to you for that quality of pic! :clap:


As for sexing,... Yeah, that's F'n weird. :wtf: I have no idea what's going on there.

[WashougalWonder]

I am starting to wonder if it is a true hermaphroditic plant.

[emilya]

Today we are snowed in. A blizzard in Missouri. I hope this ends soon as it is highly over rated. I have no experience with this, but I imagine that some point between a foot and a foot and a half of snow, my pickup truck is no longer going to be able to get me out of here. I guess I am stuck, so its time for an update!

We have made some progress since my last posting here. We still don't know the sex of #3, but I am proceeding ahead as if that didn't bother me. If in the next week or so (under close observation) #3 shows clear signs of being male, it will be pulled out of there.

I took 4 clones from #2 approximately 4 days ago. They have been put in a humidity dome in the smaller tent. Temperature is controlled at 78 degrees and they are under the red bulbs at 20,000 lumens approximately 10 inches away, the red because some claim it to promote root growth. The cloning was done based on the techniques in this sticky: http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/142258-clone-log-cloning-pics-using-master-kush-mom.html
I have raised the planters up slightly by putting them in an empty starter pot so that I can put a bit of water in the bottom of the tray to help raise the humidity in the dome. I also am misting them with PH'd water twice a day. So far, no drooping or acting surprised. They actually appear to be trying to live. This is very encouraging.

With the last watering I added the first nutes to the bigger plants. I am using the FF trio and of course still being in veg, gave them the recommended amounts of BB and GB for the last week of veg. We will see how they handle this with every other watering now as from this point on we will be seeing how much we can convince them to grow. I am watching for signs of burn and with any signs I will cut the nutes to every third watering.

The last big advance here is that today I lowered the SCRog screen onto them. This has forced the upper 2 inches to bend over and head out under the screen. Side growth has greatly accelerated since the FIM and very soon the side growth will be at canopy level and be ready to be trained across the screen. The current plan is to keep up with the current nutes/lights etc until the screen fills 40% or so... then I am going to flip the switch.

Here are the pictures!

Emmie

[LetsSeeYa]

Nice plan ya got there Em:thumbsup:and a great looking setup too. I would like to try a scrog and maybe some time soon. I will watch yours for my practice, lol. It wont be long and you can fill your screen with your clones, at least that was my plan after i get some that is.

Keep er green:weedpoke:



:rasta:

[Dutch Pimp]

Good Luck...Emmie...:thumbsup:...read this, in your spare time:http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/181201-raiz-first-grow-log-3-white-widow-seeds-nirvana.html

[emilya]

Good Luck...Emmie...:thumbsup:...read this, in your spare time:http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/181201-raiz-first-grow-log-3-white-widow-seeds-nirvana.html

I love that grow log DP! It was one of the things that convinced me to do this one actually. I have seen several people refer to it as one of the best grow logs on the board and I have it saved here as a permanent link. I admit that I did try to emulate Raiz a bit here in this log. I strove to make this a place that a new grower could actually learn something from as they watched my first time attempt and me recovering from my mistakes.

I figure I have about 10-13 weeks left on this grow log as I move into flower and then to harvesting and curing. Time will tell if anything discussed here actually turned out to be useful to anyone, but I hope so. It's my way of giving back the gift you all have given me with your help and encouragement. :) Thank you everyone! :thumbsup:

Emmie

[rattlingdags]

They're looking terrific Emmy :thumbsup:
I'm really looking forward to watching as you work through scrogging. I'm not trying it myself yet but I find it a really attractive method.
Fingers crossed for #3 being a girl too

[emilya]

Hey Y'all. Snowy greetings from the midwest! Last night I learned the power of good smoke to plow driveways. My friend showed up with his 4x4 with the plow on the front claiming he was bored and just wanted to help. After an hour of scraping I had huge piles of snow and no driveway problem. He was rewarded with a big doobie of some very heady white widow along with a bit of cuddling. I don't think I am going to worry about snow any longer. :)

Anyway... now that Emmie is happy, on with the grow log. Today is the 8 week mark. #3 still is not clearly showing sex, but I am still leaning female on it. Both plants are responding rapidly to the nutrients just introduced by showing strong growth as well as a deep greening of all the leaves starting from the bottom and moving up the plants as time progresses. I will stick with the suggested levels at every other watering until the girls tell me to do something different.

Clones are still standing up, and at 6 days old have started to yellow at the bottom leaves. I understand that this is normal as the roots start to form and am calmly continuing my twice a day misting until I see roots coming out the bottom of the starter containers. I have plastic cups ready for their next stage in a week or two.

In the big tent, we are training on the screen. I counted how many openings I have (220) and counted how many holes are presently claimed by growth (20). This is 9%. I will flip the switch at 40% and continue to train under the screen for about the first 2 weeks of flowering.

A word about my screen. Notice that it angles up toward the back. I did this for a couple of reasons after seeing this done in a couple of professional SCRog grows. First was ease of working under the screen. If I sit on my cooler in the tent, I can easily reach under the screen and still easily see the top and what I am doing. Talk about SCRoging with ease! The second idea is this. The most active growing is at the top of the branches, which will tend to be at the top of the screen. The closer to the top they get, the closer to the light they also get. I am thinking that this will provide incentive for the plants to grow more rapidly at the tops. Later in flowering when the canopy is established, it will be an easy matter to tilt the light at this same angle and get to a 4" distance across the length of the screen.

I am sure that on the next grow when i have 4 plants under the screen this idea will not work and the screen will go back to a level 10" front and back, but for this grow I am going to experiment with this idea. Live and learn!

Thats all for now... I hope you are all having a wonderful week.
Here are some SCRog pictures!

Emmie

[Lynhal]

Just popped in to check on your progress. You are doing a great job! :thumbsup:

Emmie, can you get some real close ups of the nodes on those plants? If you can, I'm sure some of us here will be able to sex them for you. In that second picture, almost dead center, is a node that looks like it is showing something but it is too far away to tell.

Wishing you all the best with your SCROG'ing. :) Still hovering your thread. :S2:

[Dutch Pimp]

He was rewarded with a big doobie of some very heady white widow along with a bit of cuddling.

OMG!...:rastabanna:

[bigsby]

My friend showed up with his 4x4 with the plow on the front claiming he was bored and just wanted to help. [SNIPPET] He was rewarded with a big doobie of some very heady white widow along with a bit of cuddling.

Yeah. he was bored...

Nothing like fringe benefits, eh? ;)

Note, we (guys) always bored. It's in our nature.

[rattlingdags]

LMAO :s3:
Now there's a guy who I bet is praying his heart out for more snow.

[bkbbudz]

Just a quick thanks, I am learning a lot of great stuff. :thumbsup:

[canniwhatsis]

A word about my screen. Notice that it angles up toward the back. I did this for a couple of reasons after seeing this done in a couple of professional SCRog grows. First was ease of working under the screen. If I sit on my cooler in the tent, I can easily reach under the screen and still easily see the top and what I am doing. Talk about SCRoging with ease! The second idea is this. The most active growing is at the top of the branches, which will tend to be at the top of the screen. The closer to the top they get, the closer to the light they also get. I am thinking that this will provide incentive for the plants to grow more rapidly at the tops. Later in flowering when the canopy is established, it will be an easy matter to tilt the light at this same angle and get to a 4" distance across the length of the screen.

I am sure that on the next grow when i have 4 plants under the screen this idea will not work and the screen will go back to a level 10" front and back, but for this grow I am going to experiment with this idea. Live and learn!

Thats all for now... I hope you are all having a wonderful week.
Here are some SCRog pictures!

Emmie

I see your logic, but it won't work on a larger scale. Honestly it'll work just fine, but slightly misses the point.


When you bend a plant, the hormones start to distribute differently. (I'm not a botanist, but I've seen this to be true in experimentation. ;) )

So, bending them slightly but still leaving the main stem growing as the top is really no different than not bending them at all, they will continue to grow just with a slight deviation in course!


However, as I learned with my grafted plant, if you bend the "Top" to BELOW the apex of the stem (so the main stem is pointed back down with it's growing nodes) it stops acting like the top and the higher (vertically) up branches take over. (done it to 2 other plants in vege with same results ;) )

So if you bend your stalk so that new growth is parallel to the light and continue to train it that way, the hormones will distribute evenly amongst the branches and they ALL become tops!

[emilya]

I see your logic, but it won't work on a larger scale. Honestly it'll work just fine, but slightly misses the point.


When you bend a plant, the hormones start to distribute differently. (I'm not a botanist, but I've seen this to be true in experimentation. ;) )

So, bending them slightly but still leaving the main stem growing as the top is really no different than not bending them at all, they will continue to grow just with a slight deviation in course!


However, as I learned with my grafted plant, if you bend the "Top" to BELOW the apex of the stem (so the main stem is pointed back down with it's growing nodes) it stops acting like the top and the higher (vertically) up branches take over. (done it to 2 other plants in vege with same results ;) )

So if you bend your stalk so that new growth is parallel to the light and continue to train it that way, the hormones will distribute evenly amongst the branches and they ALL become tops!

:postgood:
I am sensing a learning moment here! So, even after FIM'ing the girls, you make the point that by using a "relaxed" SCRog that I am missing out on the LST benefit that the horizontal SCRog screen would provide. hmmm. I see the logic of this too. So you are saying that a 60 degree bend is not nearly as effective as a 90 degree one would be. What's everyone think? Should I switch out the back supports and make this screen horizontal? It would be an easy matter to do this. Based on your experience already with SCRog Canni, I am ready to make this change yet today. I think the change in angle would instantly fill about 2% more of the screen too and would of course lower the light to the front of the screen where all the growing is going on. This morning I am watering, so the plants will be nice and supple later this afternoon with the added water. I will be monitoring the thread closely today to see what everyone thinks.

Lynhal, still working on a good picture of a node on #3. It is very strange what it is doing with these almost fang like calyx's. I will work a bit with the camera today now that I have some time available and see what I can come up with for you.

Emmie

[Rusty Trichome]

When you bend a plant, the hormones start to distribute differently. (I'm not a botanist, but I've seen this to be true in experimentation. ;) )

So, bending them slightly but still leaving the main stem growing as the top is really no different than not bending them at all, they will continue to grow just with a slight deviation in course!


However, as I learned with my grafted plant, if you bend the "Top" to BELOW the apex of the stem (so the main stem is pointed back down with it's growing nodes) it stops acting like the top and the higher (vertically) up branches take over. (done it to 2 other plants in vege with same results ;) )

So if you bend your stalk so that new growth is parallel to the light and continue to train it that way, the hormones will distribute evenly amongst the branches and they ALL become tops!

"Auxins are an important class of plant hormones, that have diverse and complex biological effects. By definition, a hormone is a compound that is made in one part of an organism, but has its affect in another part."
Auxins and Plant Growth (http://www.ehow.com/facts_5188603_auxins-plant-growth.html)

Auxins control the lateral branching. Bend the tallest meristem (growing tip) to below the level of a neighboring growing tip, and the higher one (vertically) will be the recipient of the plant's growth-focus. No clue how in the world the plant knows which is tallest...but it knows...:wtf:
The point is not to make a 60 or 90 degree bend, it's simply to tie the growing tip to below the level of it's neighbor.

Use care when moving the pot once tied-up.

[jaydee84]

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by canniwhatsis View Post
When you bend a plant, the hormones start to distribute differently. (I'm not a botanist, but I've seen this to be true in experimentation. )

So, bending them slightly but still leaving the main stem growing as the top is really no different than not bending them at all, they will continue to grow just with a slight deviation in course!


However, as I learned with my grafted plant, if you bend the "Top" to BELOW the apex of the stem (so the main stem is pointed back down with it's growing nodes) it stops acting like the top and the higher (vertically) up branches take over. (done it to 2 other plants in vege with same results )

So if you bend your stalk so that new growth is parallel to the light and continue to train it that way, the hormones will distribute evenly amongst the branches and they ALL become tops!.[/QUOTE]

this is a great bit of info as i plan to do the bend soon! thanks guys....
i did pop in to check out plants cool stuff brva rabbit.....

[jaydee84]

like this pic i suppose

hope you dont class this as thread jacking sori ppls

info 4 all

[emilya]

like this pic i suppose

hope you dont class this as thread jacking sori ppls

info 4 all

no... its all good Jaydee... I am here to learn. And where that takes us no one knows... you might say that I bend to the opportunities that present themselves. :)

Rusty and Canni... very good as always. That makes perfect sense. I am eyeballing my PVC collection now for some shorter supports in the back. Once again, Emmie's assumptions give way to solid science. I am so very pleased that I have you all here to teach me!

Emmie

[jaydee84]

[QUOTE=Rusty and Canni... very good as always. [/QUOTE]

yep


sweet as.....a nut from the nuttiest nut tree let that be the nut for me hehehehe

dont ask lol!!

[WashougalWonder]

Just stopped in to:rastabanna:

[emilya]

Hello my faithful readers, today finds me wanting to do an update and fill you all in. I hope this day finds you happy and healthy. :thumbsup:

As you can see from my title, I have switched to flowering. After 5 days of this, #3 finally declared itself... yes, WW was right and it was a hermie right out of the seed. This was NOT stress induced; it was just inclined to swing that way. It was very interesting seeing this on my first grow. I have been blessed with good things to see as I learn my new hobby.

So, we are down to 1 plant. Our original #2 has turned out to be a wonderful girl and I will show you soon how she is doing. She went under the SCRog screen a couple of weeks back and we started learning how to do the initial training. All in all, after being corrected to put the screen horizontal things have gone very well. There were a few lessons along the way though...

The discussion earlier about the hormones that cause the lower branches to accelerate their growth was very enlightening. Sure enough, once the screen went horizontal and I nightly took care to make sure the main cola was lower than the tallest lower growth, this thing took off. All the lower branches started growing rapidly, and within a week all had reached the canopy level. So, next time I am going to start training in the veg tent to start this branching out from the bottom. This time in my naivet'e I thought, "I don't need to train them early with LST techniques, I am planning on doing a FIM and later the SCRog where they will get plenty of training." Yep... sure.... :stoned:

First off... the FIM didn't work so well. I guess I took too much. I also FIM'ed #3 and definitely got 4 main colas as a result. This girl, not so much. She stunted at the top for quite a while as a result of my evisceration and then slowly built back up a single cola at the top. Hmm... it wasn't supposed to do that. :(

My efforts did result in stimulating the side growth, but not without a severe stunting of about a week while she just looked at me with her stupid haircut and said, "Really? I mean... Really?" Next grow, I'm FIMing at the 4th node like is recommended. Then when they get near screen height I am going to tie them down... well before we head for the flowering tent.

You might remember that I took clones. Well... at first, that went very well. I had 3 out of 4 that were looking good after 10 days and I saw signs of roots in one of them at the bottom of the starter pot. I decided it was time to repot them into party cups. That was going well until I had a horrible accident. Somehow I caught my tray on my sleeve and tumbled the whole thing, cups, totally shocked new clones and soil all over the floor. Egads. I tried to save them. It looks like 1 is going to survive. grrrr. I will be treating #2 as a valuable mother at the end of this grow and will be sending her back in to veg after harvest. I guess in the remaining 8 weeks of this grow I am going to start a few more beans and see what we get out of the free seeds that came with this order. This might just be very interesting too.

The other big thing that has changed is that I reached the 20 day mark on my new soil from when I transplanted them to 3gal pots a while back. This is the point when the nutes in the last soil gave out and told me it was time to repot. So instead of again starving the grow, I brought out the FoxFarms trio and started the regime on the last week of vegging on the chart (we were at 7 weeks of veg at that point) and then when I was switching to flower, we moved to the first week of flower recommendations. Both plants at that time went nuts and were growing significantly each day. After murdering #3 because of its proclivity to swing both directions, I carefully examined the root ball and was very pleased with what I found. There was good thick root growth horizontally in the pot and it extended down with good root development all through the pot. The mass held together nicely and showed no signs of anything funny or alarming to my untrained eyes. It also did not appear to be root bound as there was still plenty of room for the roots to extend in all directions with outside wrapping only apparent at the very bottom.

Water needs have been slowly increasing and this week I noticed another jump. When we first moved to 3gal pots, 3 cups of water was enough to last just about 3 days. This changed to 2 days and then this last week, I saw the remaining plant use up 3 cups in 36 hours. It seems to be going in spurts now, and I am monitoring closely. I have also increased the water given to about 1 quart, hoping to get back to a 2-3 day water cycle. This of course is without runoff either... and I plan on this next watering which will be a non-nute watering to see just what amount it takes before I get runoff... but I am betting that it is very close to what I am now giving. We shall see. I dare say that I am starting to get a feel for her needs just by looking and checking my soil moisture level.

Ok.. enough of this. I am sure you want to see pictures. Right now I can count 45 bud sights that have or will soon hit the canopy. There are probably 20 more that might raise up. She is going to be a monster. She is filling 23% of the screen now and I expect her to reach 30-45% by the end of the second week of flowering when her stretching period ends. We shall see! :) Have I told you that this is fun? If not, it is!

Here we go... SCRog porn !!!

First, under the skirts...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-picture-slider-picture7254-under-canopy.jpg


And then, from the top...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-picture-slider-picture7253-top-canopy.jpg

I am not as much of a bondage expert as some around here seem to be ;), but its not looking too bad!

Enjoy,
Emmie

[tikiroom]

Where's the pics at? :wtf:

[gypski]

this is so gay
it was just inclined to swing that way.!!! :lol5: that plant looks like one of mine!! Great job with what you ended up with. :greenthumb:


Hello my faithful readers, today finds me wanting to do an update and fill you all in. I hope this day finds you happy and healthy. :thumbsup:

As you can see from my title, I have switched to flowering. After 5 days of this, #3 finally declared itself... yes, WW was right and it was a hermie right out of the seed. This was NOT stress induced; it was just inclined to swing that way. It was very interesting seeing this on my first grow. I have been blessed with good things to see as I learn my new hobby.

So, we are down to 1 plant. Our original #2 has turned out to be a wonderful girl and I will show you soon how she is doing. She went under the SCRog screen a couple of weeks back and we started learning how to do the initial training. All in all, after being corrected to put the screen horizontal things have gone very well. There were a few lessons along the way though...

The discussion earlier about the hormones that cause the lower branches to accelerate their growth was very enlightening. Sure enough, once the screen went horizontal and I nightly took care to make sure the main cola was lower than the tallest lower growth, this thing took off. All the lower branches started growing rapidly, and within a week all had reached the canopy level. So, next time I am going to start training in the veg tent to start this branching out from the bottom. This time in my naivet'e I thought, "I don't need to train them early with LST techniques, I am planning on doing a FIM and later the SCRog where they will get plenty of training." Yep... sure.... :stoned:

First off... the FIM didn't work so well. I guess I took too much. I also FIM'ed #3 and definitely got 4 main colas as a result. This girl, not so much. She stunted at the top for quite a while as a result of my evisceration and then slowly built back up a single cola at the top. Hmm... it wasn't supposed to do that. :(

My efforts did result in stimulating the side growth, but not without a severe stunting of about a week while she just looked at me with her stupid haircut and said, "Really? I mean... Really?" Next grow, I'm FIMing at the 4th node like is recommended. Then when they get near screen height I am going to tie them down... well before we head for the flowering tent.

You might remember that I took clones. Well... at first, that went very well. I had 3 out of 4 that were looking good after 10 days and I saw signs of roots in one of them at the bottom of the starter pot. I decided it was time to repot them into party cups. That was going well until I had a horrible accident. Somehow I caught my tray on my sleeve and tumbled the whole thing, cups, totally shocked new clones and soil all over the floor. Egads. I tried to save them. It looks like 1 is going to survive. grrrr. I will be treating #2 as a valuable mother at the end of this grow and will be sending her back in to veg after harvest. I guess in the remaining 8 weeks of this grow I am going to start a few more beans and see what we get out of the free seeds that came with this order. This might just be very interesting too.

The other big thing that has changed is that I reached the 20 day mark on my new soil from when I transplanted them to 3gal pots a while back. This is the point when the nutes in the last soil gave out and told me it was time to repot. So instead of again starving the grow, I brought out the FoxFarms trio and started the regime on the last week of vegging on the chart (we were at 7 weeks of veg at that point) and then when I was switching to flower, we moved to the first week of flower recommendations. Both plants at that time went nuts and were growing significantly each day. After murdering #3 because of its proclivity to swing both directions, I carefully examined the root ball and was very pleased with what I found. There was good thick root growth horizontally in the pot and it extended down with good root development all through the pot. The mass held together nicely and showed no signs of anything funny or alarming to my untrained eyes. It also did not appear to be root bound as there was still plenty of room for the roots to extend in all directions with outside wrapping only apparent at the very bottom.

Water needs have been slowly increasing and this week I noticed another jump. When we first moved to 3gal pots, 3 cups of water was enough to last just about 3 days. This changed to 2 days and then this last week, I saw the remaining plant use up 3 cups in 36 hours. It seems to be going in spurts now, and I am monitoring closely. I have also increased the water given to about 1 quart, hoping to get back to a 2-3 day water cycle. This of course is without runoff either... and I plan on this next watering which will be a non-nute watering to see just what amount it takes before I get runoff... but I am betting that it is very close to what I am now giving. We shall see. I dare say that I am starting to get a feel for her needs just by looking and checking my soil moisture level.

Ok.. enough of this. I am sure you want to see pictures. Right now I can count 45 bud sights that have or will soon hit the canopy. There are probably 20 more that might raise up. She is going to be a monster. She is filling 23% of the screen now and I expect her to reach 30-45% by the end of the second week of flowering when her stretching period ends. We shall see! :) Have I told you that this is fun? If not, it is!

Here we go... SCRog porn !!!

First, under the skirts...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-picture-slider-picture7254-under-canopy.jpg


And then, from the top...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-picture-slider-picture7253-top-canopy.jpg

I am not as much of a bondage expert as some around here seem to be ;), but its not looking too bad!

Enjoy,
Emmie

[emilya]

Where's the pics at? :wtf:

oops... my bad...
I think I know what I did wrong. Lets see if this fixes it...

SCRog porn, take two...

[canniwhatsis]

That is looking awesome Emmy! :thumbsup:


I like to keep training my new growth under the screen until I start getting little bud points, (about the size of a pencil eraser) Then I let it go UP, my typical result is a cola about 4" tall above the screen that turns sideways just below it. :hippy:


Looks like you've got about 10-15 main growing top bud points there,.... each of those should be about like This in just another short 8 weeks :S5: (Pic was Vannilluna (http://boards.cannabis.com/medical-strains/192299-vanilluna-vanilla-moon.html) done in SCROG ;) )

[rattlingdags]

My efforts did result in stimulating the side growth, but not without a severe stunting of about a week while she just looked at me with her stupid haircut and said, "Really? I mean... Really?"
LOL! Reminded me of my first effort at fimming which was worse. The poor thing ended up with 2 tops flanked by 2 pathetically mutilated half fan leaves.
#2's looking fab under her scrog bondage. She's grown into quite the monster :thumbsup:

[WashougalWonder]

looking good. Sounding good. Must be great

[trejedy]

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6575-note-red-spots-female.jpg "Note the Red Spots - FEMALE"

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-picture6578-another-male.jpg "Another MALE"

Emmie

This worries me because I don't see the red spots to which you are referring and I am raising WW, about 3.5 weeks in, on which I see no red spots at all. They are feminizd seeds from Nir...a reputable NL firm, shall we say.

Also, and this is as an aside in case anyone reads this, I am growing them under LED and in the day times putting them outside in the sun (it's about 75 where I am). Is this going to mess them up as far as their diurnal rhythm? I thought that what the LED isn't giving them (24 hour cycle right now with 6 hours in the sun and the rest under the LED lamp in a mylar tent with good fan wind) the sun could give them a boost. I did this at first just with a couple of them whose roots I had slaughtered by over watering the first 2 weeks. They are leafing out, but at this time kind of look like umbrellas. I don't want to confuse the little darlings by over loving them, I have great ambitions for their future success.

I really enjoy the grow journals on this site, and yours is both through and explicit which I find very helpful. Thanks to you and to the commenters.

Peace

[emilya]

This worries me because I don't see the red spots to which you are referring and I am raising WW, about 3.5 weeks in, on which I see no red spots at all. They are feminizd seeds from Nir...a reputable NL firm, shall we say.

Also, and this is as an aside in case anyone reads this, I am growing them under LED and in the day times putting them outside in the sun (it's about 75 where I am). Is this going to mess them up as far as their diurnal rhythm? I thought that what the LED isn't giving them (24 hour cycle right now with 6 hours in the sun and the rest under the LED lamp in a mylar tent with good fan wind) the sun could give them a boost. I did this at first just with a couple of them whose roots I had slaughtered by over watering the first 2 weeks. They are leafing out, but at this time kind of look like umbrellas. I don't want to confuse the little darlings by over loving them, I have great ambitions for their future success.

I really enjoy the grow journals on this site, and yours is both through and explicit which I find very helpful. Thanks to you and to the commenters.

Peace

Never fear Trejedy... the red spot and trunk thing is simply a theory that was given to us by WW and is certainly not 100% accurate. Just keep raising your babies the best you can and sometime in the future they will reveal their sex to you. Our theory there looked like it was 100% accurate at one time, but if you read closely you will see that we had #4 dead wrong... the reddest one of the bunch, was clearly male. Also #3 fooled us and was both male and female, a true hermaphrodite. The one that was proven most accurate was our #1. He was all green and all male and had all the classic indicators... grew fastest, matured first etc. Trust me on this though... if you keep a close watch on your plants, the sex will become apparent before it becomes a crisis and you will have time to get them out of the flowering room. Keep calm my friend. The best advice I have ever gotten here on this forum was from our Rusty Trichome and I now pass it down to you... patience above all else.

Regarding your light and moving in and out of the house: I don't think that the light is going to be an issue right now since you are not letting them think that the end of the season is coming with a shortening of the light cycle. I doubt that this is an issue. I would however take special precautions as to stressing the plants in other ways with all this moving about. I know it sounds silly, but I did it with my clones... don't drop them! Sunlight has to be good for them, but that sort of defeats the purpose of having a big grow light doesn't it? Part of the reason that we can grow such amazing plants indoors is because we can control everything, light, temp, humidity and in that closed environment we can guard against things such as molds and funguses and pests. I would worry more that with the outside exposure that you also may attract pests such as spider mites and end up bringing them indoors with you. For that reason alone I would trust my lighting system to provide and keep them inside... but that's just me. I am convinced that given the right spectrum of light with a strong enough flux density, plants can thrive even better than under direct sunlight. I will say that I am convinced that used correctly, a good t5 high output florescent system can provide what the plants need to thrive, and I know that there are many who argue that LED systems can do the same. Experts may disagree with me on this, and I am of course no expert with half a grow under my belt. I invite you to start a new thread asking that question... not everyone reads my little grow log here you know.

Good luck with your grow...

Also, as long as I am here today.... here is some SCRog porn!

Emmie

[Rusty Trichome]

The best advice I have ever gotten here on this forum was from our Rusty Trichome and I now pass it down to you... patience above all else.
Aww, shucks...:D


here is some SCRog porn!
Emmie Much better than the last porn I was exposed to... :thumbsup:

Switching light spectrums is not recommended. In my opinion, keeping them under (proper) lights and on a timer would net much better results, and plants generally need an acclimation time when the enviornmental conditions change. A couple of other examples of enviornmental changes would include transplant shock, daytime temps that overheat and chill the plants, ph swings, changing nutrients mid-stream...

[trejedy]

Never fear Trejedy... the red spot and trunk thing is simply a theory that was given to us by WW and is certainly not 100% accurate. ...The best advice I have ever gotten here on this forum was from our Rusty Trichome and I now pass it down to you... patience above all else.

Phew, that's a relief. I thought I had a sausage fest going on here with all my ladies actually just dudes in drag. I'm fairly confident that the company is reliable, but will definitely keep and eye out for tell-tale balls...




Regarding your light and moving in and out of the house: I don't think that the light is going to be an issue right now since you are not letting them think that the end of the season is coming with a shortening of the light cycle. I doubt that this is an issue. I would however take special precautions as to stressing the plants in other ways with all this moving about. I know it sounds silly, but I did it with my clones... don't drop them! Sunlight has to be good for them, but that sort of defeats the purpose of having a big grow light doesn't it? Part of the reason that we can grow such amazing plants indoors is because we can control everything, light, temp, humidity and in that closed environment we can guard against things such as molds and funguses and pests. I would worry more that with the outside exposure that you also may attract pests such as spider mites and end up bringing them indoors with you. For that reason alone I would trust my lighting system to provide and keep them inside... but that's just me. I am convinced that given the right spectrum of light with a strong enough flux density, plants can thrive even better than under direct sunlight. I will say that I am convinced that used correctly, a good t5 high output florescent system can provide what the plants need to thrive, and I know that there are many who argue that LED systems can do the same. Experts may disagree with me on this, and I am of course no expert with half a grow under my belt. I invite you to start a new thread asking that question... not everyone reads my little grow log here you know.



I will start a thread with this later when I get a minute, but the possibility of introducing mites, fungus, etc. was something I thought about. I was both hoping that it is a bit too early for the mites, and intend to use neem oil on the leaves when they get a little more robust.` I read that every couple of weeks a spritz of neem on the plants will prevent spider mites from enjoying the fruits of my labor, but again, I will keep an eye out for the signs. You are right it sort of defeats the purpose of the environment we create bringing the plants outside. But I am unsure about LEDs, not an expert in their use, and chose them for their parsimonious, environmentally friendly electricity use, plus the fact that they produce so little heat that I can put them practically on top of the plants and not worry about burn.

The plants are still quite small and I can transport them all conveniently in a walmart basket that I pilfered, and I am very careful with placement so they aren't stressed. I do wonder though about the sunlight. You are right in that they get light all day so it would seem like they wouldn't be affected by the sun/LED combo, but the suns strength does vary during the day and I wonder if the plants react to that waxing and waning. Like I said, I just don't want to confuse them. They are dearer to me than my own imaginary daughter...;-)

Thanks for the reply and the well-wishes. I look forward to hearing how you grow(s) progress(es).

Peace

Trejedy

[Rusty Trichome]

Keep an eye our for bugs and insects when taking them outside during the day. They tend to hitchike a ride indoors. Bad news for other houseplants, other occupants...

[trejedy]

I replied (which doesn't seem to have made it to print) with thanks and an agreement that I'll stop with the lightsource changes. Your words make sense, I suspected those issues before. Thanks

[emilya]

Hello dear friends,

Today is day 12 of flowering. The plants are changing almost daily now in ways that I can see without much trouble. A tremendous amount of stretching is going on still and with it a more than doubling of the water needs from 3 cups every 2 days to 6 cups. I suspect that in the coming weeks when we start putting some weight on these buds, those needs will double again, but not knowing for sure I still monitor water use very carefully and log each exact time and amount as well as if it was a nutrient watering. I have been following the recommendations from Fox Farm and have been giving the recommended amounts of nutes, every other time and just plain PH'ed water in the in-between times.

The smell has changed noticeably too. Now, its not as much a green growing thing smell with a bit of a pepper spice, it has become sweeter and a bit more pungent. Not so much the "green" smell now as it is that of a flower getting ready to bloom. I am really looking forward to experiencing the smell of the maturing buds in the next 6-8 weeks.
The bud sites are everywhere now and the buds are changing from the leafy vegetation growths that we have seen up until now, to something completely different, denser and filled with pistils. They are indeed starting to turn into flowers. It is a beautiful sight... the pictures just do not do it justice.

The SCRog screen is working wonderfully. I suspect that in the next 5-7 days we will see an end to the stretching and all effort will be on building the flowers. Training on the screen will end when I see that happen. When I first placed her under the screen she filled aproximimately 4% of the available holes. Today's count puts her just over 30% of the 3sqm screen filled. This is incredible to me, and now I know that putting more than two 9 week old plants with good side growth under this screen would be way too much. The ideas presented earlier about putting younger plants under the SCRog make much more sense to me now that I have seen this.

It has been a long journey getting to this point, but we are now in the downward stretch of this grow log. I will update when I see noticeable changes, which I suspect will come once or twice a week until we are done. According to the seed supplier, this is an 8-9 week strain, so we are 6-7 weeks away from harvest if that holds true.

Here are the pictures! I hope you enjoy them as much as I do!

Emmie

[gypski]

I envy you now that I lost mine. :( Looks good, and I hope you have great success. :thumbsup:


Hello dear friends,

Today is day 12 of flowering. The plants are changing almost daily now in ways that I can see without much trouble. A tremendous amount of stretching is going on still and with it a more than doubling of the water needs from 3 cups every 2 days to 6 cups. I suspect that in the coming weeks when we start putting some weight on these buds, those needs will double again, but not knowing for sure I still monitor water use very carefully and log each exact time and amount as well as if it was a nutrient watering. I have been following the recommendations from Fox Farm and have been giving the recommended amounts of nutes, every other time and just plain PH'ed water in the in-between times.

The smell has changed noticeably too. Now, its not as much a green growing thing smell with a bit of a pepper spice, it has become sweeter and a bit more pungent. Not so much the "green" smell now as it is that of a flower getting ready to bloom. I am really looking forward to experiencing the smell of the maturing buds in the next 6-8 weeks.
The bud sites are everywhere now and the buds are changing from the leafy vegetation growths that we have seen up until now, to something completely different, denser and filled with pistils. They are indeed starting to turn into flowers. It is a beautiful sight... the pictures just do not do it justice.

The SCRog screen is working wonderfully. I suspect that in the next 5-7 days we will see an end to the stretching and all effort will be on building the flowers. Training on the screen will end when I see that happen. When I first placed her under the screen she filled aproximimately 4% of the available holes. Today's count puts her just over 30% of the 3sqm screen filled. This is incredible to me, and now I know that putting more than two 9 week old plants with good side growth under this screen would be way too much. The ideas presented earlier about putting younger plants under the SCRog make much more sense to me now that I have seen this.

It has been a long journey getting to this point, but we are now in the downward stretch of this grow log. I will update when I see noticeable changes, which I suspect will come once or twice a week until we are done. According to the seed supplier, this is an 8-9 week strain, so we are 6-7 weeks away from harvest if that holds true.

Here are the pictures! I hope you enjoy them as much as I do!

Emmie

[Dutch Pimp]

this is where the moisture meter helps again..:thumbsup:..don't let them go too dry. It's easy to do, when plants are calling for more moisture....not more nutes!...more moisture...IMO.

if you have good drainage?...it's hard to overwater during flowering...IMO

[emilya]

this is where the moisture meter helps again..:thumbsup:..don't let them go too dry. It's easy to do, when plants are calling for more moisture....not more nutes!...more moisture...IMO.

if you have good drainage?...it's hard to overwater during flowering...IMO

I would be lost without my meter. I'm sure my girl keeps a watchful leaf out for my appearance. I'm like that nurse you get in the hospital that keeps coming by several times a day... and you know she is going to jab you with something each time... if its not a thermometer, its a needle. Yep... its like that. ;)

Emmie

[tikiroom]

The ideas presented earlier about putting younger plants under the SCRog make much more sense to me now that I have seen this.


You starting to see what I meant about all the undergrowth? :upsidedow

Your girl is looking great. It only gets better from here. :thumbsup:

[bigsby]

That's looking good, yo! You must be pleased with yourself. As we discussed, 6 younger / smaller plants will do you better, especially now that you have it dialed in. Also, read up on stripping out the undergrowth. Those bud sites and leaves that are below the screen will not get near enough light to do anything. Better to remove them now or in the very near future so that the plant can focus all energy on growth above the canopy. Leave any branches that will make it to the screen. Remove the rest. This also promotes better air flow so less chance of mold. But read up and make your own decision. Although the majority seems to agree, opinions do vary. That is how I do mine and it works for me.

This one is looking so nice I suggest that you name her Hillary... I named my latest "Habibti Suzanne" (which translates as, "My dearest Suzanne") after Suzanne Mubarak. I can't wait to go back to Cairo.

[canniwhatsis]

You starting to see what I meant about all the undergrowth? :upsidedow

Your girl is looking great. It only gets better from here. :thumbsup:

Yep, she's gonna need to do some weeding in the undergrowth,.... I went thru my big blueberry SCROG last night and pulled some viable clones from her,.... I'm gonna add to the "Let the cloning begin" thread by posting the results of rooting clones taken @ week 2 of flowering ;)

[emilya]

Yep, she's gonna need to do some weeding in the undergrowth,.... I went thru my big blueberry SCROG last night and pulled some viable clones from her,.... I'm gonna add to the "Let the cloning begin" thread by posting the results of rooting clones taken @ week 2 of flowering ;)

I have been planning on taking a few more clones (since I murdered most of the last bunch) and then cleaning up a bit under there... but some midterm tests got in the way this week. I am going to try the bubbler method this time to further my experience. But, to do that I need to make a trip to wal*mart and I just haven't had time to do it yet. A couple more days I think, but I am still on the fence about stressing her by cleaning out too much. I still have some reading to do about this. I have pretty good airflow in there and have temp and humidity well in control... so I'm not too worried about mold. I know that some say it increases growing at the top, and others have said it really didn't make a difference. I tend to fall on the side of thinking that too much messing around is not good and that pruning like this would induce stress that at least might extend the grow by a few days to a week, and at worst might cause her to rethink her sexual stance. I have actually wondered if it might be less stressful to add a few CFL's at the screen level all around to encourage growth under there. I can't help it... I've got to think outside the box, its in my nature.

Emmie

[MimbresValley]

looking great since my last check in:thumbsup:

[canniwhatsis]

For me it's not so much air circulation, as just not liking having a bunch of otherwise worthless buds that are impossible to trim, dry to whisps, and evaporate anywhere near an open flame.

I would rather have the plant put its energy into producing flowers up where there's enough light to do so, and I can't afford the extra wattage to lace my grow with CFL's to get light in the undergrowth. (tho if I could I would! :hippy: )

As such, if it's not going to make it all the way to the screen (and appropriate lighting) during stretch, it gets pruned out. I do it in week 2 or 3 depending on strain.

As for stressing the plant I haven't noticed a difference pruned or unpruned in the length of flower or potency of meds.

I'm NOT talking about taking EVERYTHING under the screen, just the stragglers that won't make it to screen level or close. My 600w HPS makes it about 3" below the screen in a developed canopy (So around 7-9" tottal) with enough energy to grow good buds,.... below that and it's garbage.

[emilya]

Settle back and relax my dear friends, we have been apart for a while now, and this update will be a long one. Much has happened this week and I have many things to tell you. It is going very well in my garden. We have seen an end to the stretching period now and I will not be doing much more training other than the tuck of a fan leaf or two from this point forward. Already I am seeing the first trichomes forming on the bud leaves, and the buds are turning into dense little flowers.



(look at that frost already starting to form!)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture272912-other-bud-trichomes-600-x-491.png

The hard work of organizing the SCRog is now done, and it is time to sit back and watch the well earned results. Hillary (yes, she was named by Bigsby) stretched approximately 45% from the time the lights were switched to 12/12. She has become a monster with a flower site count from the top totaling well over 100. I have added the FoxFarm solubles to the nutrient mix and am following the suggested feeding schedule to the letter. This 3rd and 4th week of the schedule has me giving her 4 different products every other watering, a massive load of nutrients and the most at one time that FoxFarm ever recommends. Almost all of this fertilizer mega-load is directed at forming more, larger and denser bud formations. No other place in the schedule throws this many nutrients at her in one feeding. This next 2 weeks is where a lot of the bud mass and size is going to come from and I am giving her all the help that I can. When you think about it, the total nutrient load that I am giving her right now costs approximately $0.42 per every other watering, or on the average about $0.60/week. This is cheap yâ??allâ?¦ and oh what a difference it makes!


(imagine what this will look like in 3 more weeks)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture272907-bud-shot-top-600-x-450.png

I mentioned that I counted the flower sites from the top to be over 100. There are another 50 or so under the canopy. I found myself in quite a quandary as to what to do about this. Some recommend stripping out the undergrowth, especially those flower sites that have no chance of reaching the canopy. Others remind us that in a SCRog the fan leaves get in the way of bud sites trying to grow to reach the light. Still others say that all one can expect to get under there are little popcorn buds. My inclination however, is to NOT go in there all Zena like and start chopping away at this beautiful plant. My first thought was that I do NOT want to introduce this kind of stress into a flowering plant. Then I considered that I was taught not to wasteâ?¦ waste not; want not, they say. Lastly, there is my natural inclination to always ask if there is a way to think outside the box and improve something.


So, I spent more money! I have added 2- 125W CFL bulbs to my setup and have them positioned just under the canopy. One is hanging by a yo-yo and the other has found the most perfect use for my very first mistake, the box of Miracle Grow plant food that I bought before I knew better. The CFLâ??s base sits on this box and this puts the bulb at the perfect height to supply its 7000 lumens to the back side under the canopy while at the same time effectively blocking any possible access to the contents of this horrible product.


Soâ?¦ what has resulted from all this extra light under the screen? One of the observations that led me to consider adding the 2 lights was that some of the lower fan leaves were being shut down; they were yellowing and then falling off. I reasoned that this was due to the lack of light penetrating the canopy. Upon observation though, this may not be the entire reason that these lower leaves are shed. The additional 14,000 lumens under the canopy has definitely had an effect. The buds under there are growing in size dramatically, and with the added light/heat along with the air circulation that we had already, there is very little chance of mold growing under the canopy. Did this entirely stop the shedding of lower fan leaves? NO. It seems that when the plant decides that it is time to turn off the production factories in those lower leaves, it will do so. It doesnâ??t matter if there is light for them under there. I am reasoning that it is simply inefficient for the plant to produce the sugars and all the bud-producing-yummy-stuff in those fan leaves way down low and then have to pump it up to the top where all the action is. Hillary has decided to move production up the stem to more efficient factories closer to or on the canopy. My expert friends will chime in here hopefully and tell me if my conclusions have any merit, but this is what I think I am seeing. I am very pleased however, that even though the added lights are not going to keep all the older fan leaves alive, the lights are going to add to the final yield with much larger bud sizes under the canopy than could have been had before.


(life under the canopy)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture272909-under-screen-600-x-450.png

The added lights had another very interesting effect. With more light on more surface area we saw an almost immediate increase in water use. Within a day of the photon enhancement, Hillaryâ??s water use went from 6 cups per watering to ½ gallon! Overall then, I see the added lights under the canopy as a very positive improvement as compared to trimming underneath. First, it caused added bud growth. Second, it is much easier to manage a well-lit neighborhood. Third, more water use means more internal activity which I have to equate to the possibility of a larger and better yield. And fourth and probably most importantâ?¦ with the added water use it means that she will be able to uptake even more nutrients than before. This gives her a much better chance of a large yield as I would estimate that over the length of the grow I am now going to feed her 20% more nutrients than would have been possible to give before the added side lights.


With all these extra nutrients comes a danger of salt buildup and nutrient lockup. I am learning well my dear professors, and with my last plain water watering, I flushed Hillary with 3 times her required ½ gallon of PHâ??ed water. I got the clue that this was necessary when on the last water cycle she slowed downâ?¦ and instead of using her water in 48 hours as she has been doing for a few weeks, she slowed down to not needing water for 60 hours. After the flush, she returned to her typical 48 hours to uptake all the water. It is amazing how much plants can tell you if you just pay attention!


So, we seem to be on a schedule and she has adapted well to the 12/12 cycle. She is happiest when I water her immediately after the lights come on as opposed to doing it before lights out, so in that way, she has trained me too. At each plain water watering, I attempt to add a bit more water than the last time, going for runoff to show me if she has changed how much she needs. I have to believe that as we move further into bud production and the physical size of the plant increases, these water needs are going to continue to accelerate, and I am watching for her to tell me how much to give. If I am able to notice the exact time that she needs more water, she will be able to grow just that much more efficiently.



One question I had going into this SCRog was never answered completely until I tried to do it myself, that is: How do you best train the plant to fit on the screen? What I realized when I started doing the training was that this depends mostly on your lighting. Try to train your plants to the parts of your grow area that have the highest proton flux density. The screen is a guide, but you train to the light! In my floro setup it means training toward the center (where the bulbs are brighter) and no further than the edges of the lit area at a 4â?� height, in other setups it would depend on your particular reflectors and light characteristics as to what directions you nudge your plant to grow under the screen.



Already I find myself smiling each time I go into my flower tent. The smell in there is breathtaking! Give me a few more weeks and these excursions will be making me downright giddy. Toward the end of this grow, I know that even outside of the flowering tent, you would be able to see a persistent twinkle in my eye that simply wasnâ??t there before.


(this is almost half the growing space with only one plant!)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture272910-top-scrog-angled-600-x-325.png

Thank you dear reader, for making it all the way to the end of this rather long log entry. I hope you enjoyed reading it. I am learning a lot and I hope that a few of you reading this are learning along with me as I try to explain what it is I am thinking and learning. I will update again when I see that something significant has happenedâ?¦ until then, I will just watch and try to figure out what Hillary is telling me. She looks very happy. I do hope that you are also.


(Happiness is defined in Emmieâ??s â??Growers Definition Bookâ?� as that feeling you get when you see your first trichomes)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/emilya-albums-emmie-s-first-grow-part-2-picture272911-small-bud-trichomes-600-x-416.png

Be well everybody,
Emmie

[GaGrown]

Waaay nice set up! I'm proud to say... You've come along way! Keep that up,girl... Tried to rep ya on this post.

I got my plants back.. Not gonna move.. Just gonna stick it out here till the end of summer.

[TANKJR]

Well, after all this time off I just had to post something somewhere...I missed this place and the people something like awful for the last couple weeks...Emmie, I am so proud of you girl! I'll say this much....if the world of economics is approached like this young lady approached this project, I think there may be some hope after all for this screwed up mess our gov't has made of everything. Ya got your work cut out for ya, young lady! Frosting? I think you're gonna see some real frosting before this lady is done! (This statement works on several levels!)

GG...Good to see your gonna stick around awhile longer!

[trejedy]

Hi Emmie, et al,

I've been gone to NOLA for the Mardi Gras and just got back, so haven't been following the thread/log for a couple of weeks. Em, I am amazed at your pics, some real beauties there, flowering just lovely. I'm about 3-4 weeks behind you there, but mine seem to be doing well, too, despite the all LED. If anyone recalls, I was putting them into the sun shine about 5 hrs/day, but stopped that, bought another LED mounted perpendicular instead of hanging, and they are strong and dark and bushy now, if a little shorter than expected.

However, a question:
One of my girls, the tallest of the bunch, the early grower, who grew so fast while I was away that she pressed against the light. Now, the LED gives off virtually no heat, but there are top leaves that are living yet are curled and stunted and some grown leaves that are a bit..."wavy" at their base by the stem. There are also a couple of lower leaves that have rusty colored spots on them, maybe 3-4 spots per leaf, small but noticeable. What I'd like to know is,

1) What is causing the crinkled leaves in that one plant (others are almost equally as tall, one even pressing against the light in a similar way with no ill effects)

2) What is the reason for the rust spots - is it as I suspect related to the crinkled leaves?

Any help will be vastly appreciated, and Emmie, fantastic job on your grow. It's fun to see your plants and to try and tweak my system to emulate your plants maturation. Thanks for everything,

Trejedy

PS sorry for the lack of pics. I tried to figure out how to post them but ran out of time and have to go.

[emilya]

Hi Emmie, et al,

I've been gone to NOLA for the Mardi Gras and just got back, so haven't been following the thread/log for a couple of weeks. Em, I am amazed at your pics, some real beauties there, flowering just lovely. I'm about 3-4 weeks behind you there, but mine seem to be doing well, too, despite the all LED. If anyone recalls, I was putting them into the sun shine about 5 hrs/day, but stopped that, bought another LED mounted perpendicular instead of hanging, and they are strong and dark and bushy now, if a little shorter than expected.

However, a question:
One of my girls, the tallest of the bunch, the early grower, who grew so fast while I was away that she pressed against the light. Now, the LED gives off virtually no heat, but there are top leaves that are living yet are curled and stunted and some grown leaves that are a bit..."wavy" at their base by the stem. There are also a couple of lower leaves that have rusty colored spots on them, maybe 3-4 spots per leaf, small but noticeable. What I'd like to know is,

1) What is causing the crinkled leaves in that one plant (others are almost equally as tall, one even pressing against the light in a similar way with no ill effects)

2) What is the reason for the rust spots - is it as I suspect related to the crinkled leaves?

Any help will be vastly appreciated, and Emmie, fantastic job on your grow. It's fun to see your plants and to try and tweak my system to emulate your plants maturation. Thanks for everything,

Trejedy

PS sorry for the lack of pics. I tried to figure out how to post them but ran out of time and have to go.

Thanks for the complements Trejedy and as far as problems in your grow, I am not an expert. I am still working on figuring out my first grow myself. :) I strongly recommend that you ask those questions in a thread of your own, placed in the appropriate spot in the forum structure. In that way I think you can be assured of getting a fast and knowledgeable response to your questions. :)

Emmie

[trejedy]

Thanks for the complements Trejedy and as far as problems in your grow, I am not an expert. I am still working on figuring out my first grow myself. :) I strongly recommend that you ask those questions in a thread of your own, placed in the appropriate spot in the forum structure. In that way I think you can be assured of getting a fast and knowledgeable response to your questions. :)

Emmie

Will do, Emmie.

Trejedy

[rattlingdags]

Cripes thank god the forums back up again - I felt like I was missing a limb or something without it.
So glad you've posted a update Emmie and its all such good news. Youvé got one beautiful girlie monster there and she's one to be very proud of. Its going to be so exciting to see her finish up and count up how much she's given you.

[emilya]

This update is mainly just to talk about what I am seeing happen under the canopy... nothing has changed much up top in the last 4 days or so, just more of the what was already going on. The buds are filling out and getting larger and trichomes are starting to coat everything near the buds, all over the plant. It does make for some pretty pictures though. The next watering starts a new mix of nutrients with a very heavy phosphorous load to promote oil production. This new mix will be what she gets up until the last week of the grow.

The most interesting thing to watch is how Hillary is self managing under the canopy. The group of advocates that promote trimming to reduce chances of mold and to make her concentrate on the top growth, these people would be proud of Hillary. She has all by herself picked the very growth that it is recommended to take, the older and less efficient lower fan leaves. She has cut off one at a time per branch and then picked the next least efficient one to absorb when that leaf was done. You will see in the under the canopy shot that it looks pretty uncluttered there. The only active growth left is that which supports the bud structures growing under there now with the added side lights.

So, I keep adjusting the lights upward a bit every few days trying to tease the major buds to increase in size. I did adjust the daytime and night time temperatures down 1 degree yesterday too, in order to simulate the beginning of a change in seasons. Water use is remaining steady at the moment and I see no signs of stress. Here are some pictures!

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Here is a happy little bud under the canopy
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Have a great day!
Emmie

[GaGrown]

lol... patience he says. Not my strongest quality for sure. After I know I am not killing my babies I will find more of it I am sure... but for now I worry.

Lets say I get back from my drive today with new 1 gal and 2 gal pottery containers and some fox farms soil and I wanted to transplant these complaining little dears out of the miracle grow. They are in these stupid 8" clay pots now. What would be the best way to extract them? Just do the upside down shake and see what falls away from a root structure that surely isn't nearly as large as this container? Use some kind of large spoon and try to scoop them out from the edges? How much of this miracle grow should I try to bring with them, as little as possible? At 3 weeks and still no more than slightly stressed plantlings, is it too early to put them through the stress of a move, or is the risk worth it to get them in a better soil?

Impatient Emmie

Not to go there,Em.... But I think that is a vertue of a man.. I would'nt expect you to have any... I still love ya!

Been peepin' ya thread out... You love this.. Don't cha?

[Rusty Trichome]

A thin and flat cake frosting spreader works ok, but use care...the finer roots tend to adhere themselves to the pot if the pores are large enough. Flip it over and give a good, sharp whack on the bottom to dislodge whatever roots are still stuck in the bottom. But try and keep the rootball as intact as possible, and have your new pot ready for the plant.

Looking pretty good. :thumbsup:

[rattlingdags]

Go Hilary :dance:
She looks a happy camper Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

Lookin good Emmie.

You got a good cut, my girl is giving me fits with over feeding :(

[emilya]

I am going to post this update tonight even though I cannot â??seeâ?� a lot of progress in the last few days. Here at the 3 to 5 week period seems to be a bit of a lull in the fast paced changes we have been able to chronicle every few days throughout most of this grow. To be fair to the purpose of this grow log (to help others learn along with me) I need to comment on this â??lackâ?� of visible changes. I would never want a lull like this to worry someone else as it might have worried me, before I learned to be more patient. ;)


There are indeed subtle changes to the flowers and to the entire plant. The buds are growing. In 3 days I can see growth at the top especially, the flowers are filling out and I can now see the process that will be making them taller. Note how all the leaves in the bud structure are looking up to the light and how the bud is building on itself from the top. Check out these two pictures to see what I mean. This by the way is the top flower from one of the 4th internodes.



Bud 25 days ..................................... Bud 32 days

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In today's shot you can see the top of the canopy. This is a happy plant. The entire top of the canopy is a sea of eagerly reaching leaves, soaking in all the light they can capture. These upwardly thrusting bud structures would logically contain the most efficient leaves on the entire plant, processing the light at least distance, and then being right on the flower they are supplying with nutrients. In addition to this optimization at the top, some very interesting things keep happening below the canopy.




Discarded Leaves pile
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I see a lot of questions on the forum from first time growers about the lower fan leaves yellowing during flowering. People seem to freak out as soon as they see this process start to happen, and I want to stress how natural and necessary this process seems to be. That pile of leaves is what has fallen from her in the 32 days of flowering. Wellâ?¦ almost fallen off. I believe strongly in causing no stress if I can avoid it, believing that the plant knows much better than I as to what to do; so I do not clip the bad leaves. I wait for them to be absorbed and become brittleâ?¦ and most of the time at this point they will separate cleanly at the base of the stem with just a bit of movement. Some will argue that it is best to clip them as soon as they start to yellow and be done with it, but I believe that the plant is efficient and will absorb what she wants from this leaf before releasing it. I donâ??t know which method is correctâ?¦ but I bet that each method turns out with approximately the same results. The maximum that I do is to move a dying leaf into the open if possible so that it can do its thing without blocking the light to other flowers. By doing this I feel that I am also fighting possible mold problems by moving the leaf to where it can dry out in the fan breeze.




under canopy left ............................ under canopy right
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Hillary obviously has a master plan. She started out at the very bottom and cleared out the old fan leaves. It looked so obviously to be intentional when exactly one leaf in each of the 4 lowest branches yellowed and died off. When these 4 were finished, she did it againâ?¦ 4 leaves, from the next lowest growth. Now you can see by the pictures that she has cleaned out the under the canopy pretty well and has â??naturallyâ?� made under the canopy an efficient place for the remaining flower structures to get all the available light that they can. She is now working on cleaning up the underside of the screen itself. She has picked out fan leaves that are inefficient, i.e. those that are covered up by structures at the top or those that are blocking the light to other flowers. Her picks as to which leaves to remove is logical and seems to have a definite purposeâ?¦ to move efficiency up the stem to the very top of the canopy.


If I saw any other signs of leaf problems I would worry about all this, but I donâ??t. Every other leaf on the plant looks healthy and the closer they are to a flower, the thicker and deeper green they become. It is a wonderful thing watching natures plan perfected in a weed and its amazingly efficient processes. Sort of humbles you if you think about it. :smokin:


Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

Looking good kiddo. Yes vertical growth will slow and stop. Bulk should begin to occur. The buds should start putting on bulk now from what I see. What good are those bottom leaves, they don't get enough light to make any real difference so they become a burden and the plant sloughs them, just like our skin does with old cells.

Also, keep an eye on the very bottom buds, if you don't trim them off, for nanners. The light reduction seems to cause a nanner now and then in my widow down very low. Food for thought.

[rattlingdags]

I'm glad you made this post Emmie - making note of the vertical growth lull is a worthwhile addition to your log. I would have been having worries also at this same stage if I'd not already read about it earlier.
Now we can start seeing all Hilary's buds start to thicken and fill out :thumbsup:

[bkbbudz]

WOW!

Wonderful looking girl! I have been a way a few weeks at another site. I also have no patience and when I was unable to post or use this forum for several days I lost what little I do possess and went and joined RIU.com. But I missed this forum, it seems to have much better information and certainly friendlier folks!

Anyway, I am glad I returned before you finished her, she is very impressive indeed!:greenthumb:
A friend of mine just harvested a WW after 52 flowering days under 400w HID, I don't think he got near what you already have.

Happy to be back!

P.S. Not to try to jack your post emmie (I don't think I could drag your loyal readers away even if I did want to), but I wanted to thank you amongst others for inspiring me to commit to this hobby. I have finally posted my first grow log if you would care to check it out. Peace!

[StoneMeadow]

I finally found your grow thread, Emmie...congrats on getting ready for your first harvest! :)

[emilya]

WOW!

Wonderful looking girl! ...

Anyway, I am glad I returned before you finished her, she is very impressive indeed!:greenthumb:
A friend of mine just harvested a WW after 52 flowering days under 400w HID, I don't think he got near what you already have.

.... but I wanted to thank you amongst others for inspiring me to commit to this hobby. I have finally posted my first grow log if you would care to check it out. Peace!

Thanks for the wonderful compliments on my garden bkbbudz. :) I was looking at her the other night trying to estimate how much she had on her and my estimates of the dry weight of what I am seeing even now, 3 weeks out, is making me very happy. But to know that maybe 2/3 of my weight is going to come in this last 3 weeks... it dang near makes my knees weak thinking about it. :)

I am most honored though that I had something to do with you entering our hobby and hopefully our movement toward legalization. If I had something to do with you finding your happiness here, I am greatly humbled. Thank you.
:):thumbsup:


I finally found your grow thread, Emmie...congrats on getting ready for your first harvest! :)

Glad you stopped by StoneMeadow! I hope you have enjoyed reading about the journey I have taken here. I have learned so much in the last 4 months. Now you know my secret... I'm betting you have many many years of experience over me. After reading my journey to get to this point, now you can see my fascination to see someone like you with so much practical experience growing fruit and vegetables, now starting to grow a weed. And not just that, but starting in Miracle Grow too! The scientist in me can not resist watching how this goes!

Quick update from the garden...
Hey! Its getting hot outside!
And that means it is getting hot in the house too. Egads... all of a sudden I am having problems with heat and proper air exchange in the main tent. Its ok though... I have been working on it.

First, the entire fan/filter arrangement is being redesigned tomorrow. Instead of pulling all the air through a duct across the room to a closet and then pushing it into the filter, we are going to streamline things a lot. The fan is moving to the main tent. It will pull from the filter with a short connecting duct. Output is going immediately out of the tent through another duct, to a home made vent to the outside, stealthily built into the accordian panel on the new air conditioning unit. Total length of run from the filter to the outside... about 10 feet.

This should drastically increase the efficiency of my air exchange. Another duct will run across the ceiling to the veg tent and will suck the smell away from there using the negative pressure in the main tent. If I still have temperature problems, I can use that negative pressure again and use another duct down low from the main tent and just loop it out near the air conditioner to pick up cool air to input directly in the tent. I think I got this licked. I will let you know how it goes. Come on spring time! I'm ready!

I will leave you with a picture of the main bud that I am watching up near the front of the SCRog. Today is day 35. If Hillary is happy, her published data says she will be ready between days 56-63. I am watching closely!
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and for those of you who notice such things... yes, I see the signs of burn here. This didn't happen until adding that molasses with the nutes this last time... I think I will try molasses maybe once a week, with just water next time.

Emmie

[canniwhatsis]

Thanks for the wonderful compliments on my garden bkbbudz. :) I was looking at her the other night trying to estimate how much she had on her and my estimates of the dry weight of what I am seeing even now, 3 weeks out, is making me very happy. But to know that maybe 2/3 of my weight is going to come in this last 3 weeks... it dang near makes my knees weak thinking about it. :)

I am most honored though that I had something to do with you entering our hobby and hopefully our movement toward legalization. If I had something to do with you finding your happiness here, I am greatly humbled. Thank you.
:):thumbsup:



Glad you stopped by StoneMeadow! I hope you have enjoyed reading about the journey I have taken here. I have learned so much in the last 4 months. Now you know my secret... I'm betting you have many many years of experience over me. After reading my journey to get to this point, now you can see my fascination to see someone like you with so much practical experience growing fruit and vegetables, now starting to grow a weed. And not just that, but starting in Miracle Grow too! The scientist in me can not resist watching how this goes!

Quick update from the garden...
Hey! Its getting hot outside!
And that means it is getting hot in the house too. Egads... all of a sudden I am having problems with heat and proper air exchange in the main tent. Its ok though... I have been working on it.

First, the entire fan/filter arrangement is being redesigned tomorrow. Instead of pulling all the air through a duct across the room to a closet and then pushing it into the filter, we are going to streamline things a lot. The fan is moving to the main tent. It will pull from the filter with a short connecting duct. Output is going immediately out of the tent through another duct, to a home made vent to the outside, stealthily built into the accordian panel on the new air conditioning unit. Total length of run from the filter to the outside... about 10 feet.

This should drastically increase the efficiency of my air exchange. Another duct will run across the ceiling to the veg tent and will suck the smell away from there using the negative pressure in the main tent. If I still have temperature problems, I can use that negative pressure again and use another duct down low from the main tent and just loop it out near the air conditioner to pick up cool air to input directly in the tent. I think I got this licked. I will let you know how it goes. Come on spring time! I'm ready!

I will leave you with a picture of the main bud that I am watching up near the front of the SCRog. Today is day 35. If Hillary is happy, her published data says she will be ready between days 56-63. I am watching closely!
273378

and for those of you who notice such things... yes, I see the signs of burn here. This didn't happen until adding that molasses with the nutes this last time... I think I will try molasses maybe once a week, with just water next time.

Emmie

What burn?

When I say my cut is crazy sensitive to feeding,.... this is what I'm talking about!
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As far as the lighter pic,... I couldn't help myself,.... I'm a bit more than a week ahead of you, but I'm having some issues.
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Here's what she looks like all over! :hippy: Not the happiest plant in my room,... but should do me some good.
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[emilya]

What burn?

When I say my cut is crazy sensitive to feeding,.... this is what I'm talking about!
[ATTACH...

As far as the lighter pic,... I couldn't help myself,.... I'm a bit more than a week ahead of you, but I'm having some issues.


I love the lighter pic. :) Gives me a goal to shoot for! Yes, I would be having 17 different types of fits and conniptions if I had leaves that looked like that right now. It is very instructive to see you calm about it however. After I solve my heat problem tomorrow I will be back on track, because right now I am not providing optimal conditions when the temp in my tent climbs up to near 90. We have been fighting this for 2 days. Today, I added the cost of 2 window air conditioning units to the garden's expense column. There are always issues when you are doing something worth while. I think its one of those rules of the universe. I'm not worried... I have good teachers.

Emmie

[rattlingdags]

That's pretty minimal nute burn there (the winking smiley's gone, or I'm blind) *wink* lol.
I almost half wish I could battle heat worries as at least it will mean the weather is warming up - but its cold and miserable.
Hilary's looking fab :thumbsup:

[WashougalWonder]

Where you are now, it would be hard to severely damage Hillary, but, easy on the molasses. If you don't have runoff, don't over feed.

[TANKJR]

Em, since the molasses caused this, and it probably did...I would go to it with straight water between feedings, like you said, and in maybe half the amount of what you used...if the tips of the leaves are turning yellow, that's ALL she can take, and molasses WILL make the roots take up more than normally, so you have to account for that (notice the economics word? ;) )...maybe if you do it this way they have a few days to use some of the nutes, and then adding the molasses will help her take up the rest without burning anything...still overall looking good!

I don't have this problem with my AK, it will take whatever I give it, but again, I'm a minimalist...but I have had some outdoors before that wouldn't take ANY nutes without burning something, so some are definitely more sensitive than others...your doing a good job reading the plants tho, Awesome EM! LOL!

[canniwhatsis]

I love the lighter pic. :) Gives me a goal to shoot for! Yes, I would be having 17 different types of fits and conniptions if I had leaves that looked like that right now. It is very instructive to see you calm about it however. After I solve my heat problem tomorrow I will be back on track, because right now I am not providing optimal conditions when the temp in my tent climbs up to near 90. We have been fighting this for 2 days. Today, I added the cost of 2 window air conditioning units to the garden's expense column. There are always issues when you are doing something worth while. I think its one of those rules of the universe. I'm not worried... I have good teachers.

Emmie

You will achieve and exceed that by far!!! My plant still has at LEAST 2 more weeks to go,.... and it DOES bulk up right before finish! ;)

I'm not worried about the damage that's been done, I half expected it in fact since I'm running my second of this cut... and am trying to push her. I probably did more harm than good, but I'm still learning this stuff.... and just now trying to get my head around what each individual strain wants! :o

[StoneMeadow]

Glad you stopped by StoneMeadow! I hope you have enjoyed reading about the journey I have taken here. I have learned so much in the last 4 months. Now you know my secret... I'm betting you have many many years of experience over me. After reading my journey to get to this point, now you can see my fascination to see someone like you with so much practical experience growing fruit and vegetables, now starting to grow a weed. And not just that, but starting in Miracle Grow too! The scientist in me can not resist watching how this goes!
Well, I don't know that I have "many, many years" of experience over you, and certainly not with medijuana, where I am on my first grow ever. It took a few days, but I have now read all the way through your thread. I learned lots (as I'm confident most other readers did...). Certainly enough to know that I will be sticking with clones for the foreseeable future... ;)

I grew up in a farming family and have 5 decades of gardening and raising critters. If nothing else, that gives me a certain reserve of patience and a lack of emotional attachment to particular plants and/or processes. For instance, although it doesn't say why I tranplanted my #4 clone an extra time on my thread, it's because I built a DWC for it to run in parallel with the soil grows. My DWC setup and feeding schedule had worked well with other plants in my sunroom, but #4 started showing signs of nitrogen deficiency within a day or so. When it didn't come around promptly, I unceremoniously yanked it out and put it in soil, where it's recovering nicely and catching up to its sisters.

One big surprise for me is how fast these plants grow. A couple of my girls have burn spots from where they grew an inch or more overnight to reach up and touch hot bulbs/reflectors. Tomatoes, collards and such don't do that in my experience, so I'm having to adjust my expectations. And if you are the archtypical "helicopter mom" to your plants, I am the opposite...a practical farmer who checks them occasionally, but doesn't fuss over them.

At this stage of my experience I also don't spend too much time trying to optimize or too tightly control the variables of light, air, water and soil. I just give them the basics and let their natural inclination to grow like weeds take over from there. That said, it's been fun to read your grow log, and pour over your detailed records and analysis. Like I said, I learned lots and enjoyed it. I hope you have a good enough harvest to keep yourself motivated to do it again!

[emilya]

We are getting close now folks! Day 40 and we have roughly 2-3 weeks left depending on what Hillary says about it.

A quick update on the fan/filter problem. Switching the fan to pull out of the filter instead of pushing into it, along with sending the hot air out of the house has done the trick. Now, even the heat of the 500w of CFL's along with the 8 HO florescents is being neatly handled. The efficiency of the air flow has increased noticeably and I am able to maintain a 79° temp even on a hot day.

I probably should have flushed again last week. Today is a bit over 4 weeks since the last flush and Hillary spoke up the day before yesterday to tell me it was time again. Her last plain water uptake was just a bit slow and when I checked the moisture level before her nute watering time 48 hours later she was not quite ready. This was the sign I was looking for!

I waited an extra 12 hours for her to dry out completely and then gave her the nutes knowing that a flushing was due for today. So today I flushed her again at twice the rate I did the first time. Her normal watering level is 1/2 gal, so I gave her 2 gallons and flushed the salts out of the soil. Fox Farm seems like a very good nutrient program, but heed the warnings out there... the salts do build up, especially if you are giving the maximum amounts that are recommended in the schedule.

So she should be cleaned out again now and I will give her about one more week of nutrients before we head into the last week of flowering before harvest. At that point I plan on flushing her again completely, 9 gallons in a 3 gallon pot, and then maybe one more watering before starting to let her dry out for the harvest.

Things are looking good! Consider the following picture of our sample bud at the edge of the SCRog screen. About 6 inches of bud is sticking up here, but below this are the secondary and tertiary buds that would have made up a large 8-10 inch cola if this plant had been allowed to grow vertically. These additional buds in the SCRog now are separate from the "cola" and are growing upwards by themselves, fulfilling the prediction that in a SCRog you get smaller buds, but more of them. Now after seeing how this works, that makes sense to me.
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Hope you are having a great grow at your house,
Emmie

[WashougalWonder]

In my climate if I gave that much water it would take 3 weeks to dry out.....well it seems that way, at least 2.

Yes, I forgot who it was, but he was right on about the fan and pulling instead of pushing.....Maybe GaGrown?