The Very Best of LED Light Systems?

[macnasty]

Greetings,

I am yet another curious seeker of the nascent world of LED lighting, but I am different from 95% of other curious seekers in that I want to stay as far away from any Chinese compromise as possible.

My question/request: can those with experience in the field (big fan of weezard and oldmac) please suggest a few if the most reliable companies to purchase ready-made LED setups.

FYI I have done a fair amount of research over the last year on the topic, have dabbled with discount LED products, know enough about the spectrum requirements and so on to comprehend an intelligent conversation about the topic but am nevertheless very skeptical of most of what is claimed by companies trying to sell their products. I rely now on human-to-human dialogue. Money is not an issue. Well it is, but I am unwilling to save it in this area. I know that oldmac uses TI Problooms but perhaps there us something better out? I'd like a few suggestions if possible in case the distributor can't ship to my address.

Some possibly useful bits of information about my potential setup:

-4'x6' flowering area
-sog setup. Plants finishing at app. 18".
-my issue is heat and NOT power consumption. Therefore anything up to 1k watt consumption for the LEDs is fine.
-my budget is about $2,000 for the lights. Yes, I own a credit card :D

Thank you kindly in advance for helping me sift through all the bs advertising out there. I'm looking for suggestions from a few respected members here at cancom but will happily take all non spam suggestions.

[Weezard]

Greetings,

I am yet another curious seeker of the nascent world of LED lighting, but I am different from 95% of other curious seekers in that I want to stay as far away from any Chinese compromise as possible.

My question/request: can those with experience in the field (big fan of weezard and oldmac) please suggest a few if the most reliable companies to purchase ready-made LED setups.

FYI I have done a fair amount of research over the last year on the topic, have dabbled with discount LED products, know enough about the spectrum requirements and so on to comprehend an intelligent conversation about the topic but am nevertheless very skeptical of most of what is claimed by companies trying to sell their products. I rely now on human-to-human dialogue. Money is not an issue. Well it is, but I am unwilling to save it in this area. I know that oldmac uses TI Problooms but perhaps there us something better out? I'd like a few suggestions if possible in case the distributor can't ship to my address.

Some possibly useful bits of information about my potential setup:

-4'x6' flowering area
-sog setup. Plants finishing at app. 18".
-my issue is heat and NOT power consumption. Therefore anything up to 1k watt consumption for the LEDs is fine.
-my budget is about $2,000 for the lights. Yes, I own a credit card :D

Thank you kindly in advance for helping me sift through all the bs advertising out there. I'm looking for suggestions from a few respected members here at cancom but will happily take all non spam suggestions.

Greetings McNasty.

Wondered what happened to ya after the "cops outside the house" shutdown.:)

Leds are prolly the best choice if it was heat that drew unwelcome attention.
Or, if you pay too much for electricity.

For the size room you describe, you might want to talk to str8outtaweed 'bout da Wx450 lights.
They look pretty good to me. as a spectator.:cool:

You probably already know that I'm a fan of high wattage emitters.
They are less efficient in $:lumens, but the budding results speak for themselves.:thumbsup:

There's a company called Eclipse that is working on a light based on my design, but I doubt that they have a marketable product just yet.
I'll prolly endorse it when they do finish testing.:pimp:

Wish I could be more help, but the only commercial units I've used, albeit briefly, were some knock-off UFO kine.
I was less than impressed, but the guy I purchased them for, is tickled pink.
He brought me a bud from his last harvest under them and it had me grinnin' all day!:jointsmile:

If ya don't mind, I'll hang out and watch.:)

Aloha,
Weezard

[stra8outtaWeed]

thanks Weez :thumbsup:

you can check out my all LED grows from the link in my sig :jointsmile:...albeit my lights are Chinese...but as the old adage goes you get what you pay for....the Chinese do make quality if you don't make price your first issue when shopping :smokin:

[oldmac]

Hello Macnasty,

First off, glad that stra8' chimed in with what he is using, and I now appoligize to him along with the 2 billion Chinese I have slandered over the years for producing crap products. Quick OT, the first major light I built was based 1/2 on red Cree's and 1/2 on Chinese diodes....long story short, I got ripped off. May have worked out for me tho, the light became a hybred of red cree and T5 VHO, and has worked better then even planned, for many years now.

Off the shelf lights, I've used Procyon's and Theroreme Innovation's and recently someone who I built a 2'x2' aero tray bought a LumiGrow ES-165 that I've had the pleasure of seeing and playing with. BTW the ES-165 is exactly 1/2 of the ES-330 that they have been selling.

As to the TI Pro blomms, I really like them they have worked very well over various types of grows, well all SOG. The two I bought in Aug08, where "pre-production" units, serial #s in the single digits. When I first set up my aero/fog trays last year I started with just one 4'x4' tray and the 2 TIs. They are tied mechanically together (covering abt 2'x2') and are on a light rail that moves them back and forth abt 2'. Worked so well that when the 2nd tray went in we considered other newer lights (like LumiGrow) especially because the newer TIs had different housings. Plus I was turned off by an idiot here that was humping LumiGrow, even tho he didn't use them or grew anything. Anyway abt 6 months ago had an opportunity to get 2 more TIs for a good price so now they are tied together and run on the same light rail. So 4- TIs cover 2 4'x4' trays and I can honestly say they better 2 1kw HPS and currently match 2 1kw PSMH for growth and finished product.

I had been interested in the ES-330 from it's introduction, but a little turned off by said humper here, plus I could not get an answer from them abt light energy they put out, in terms of umoles/s. Recently like I mentioned a friend bought a ES-165 for a small 2'x2' set up. Since he is using the tray to root cuttings, then veg and finally flower the LumiGrow with it's variable red/blue controls has worked out perfectly for him. They are well made, work like I beleive they should and produce a fine product.

I just did a little math (forgive me Weezard, he can explain my title) and it seems that 660w of TIs cover 16sqft or abt 41.25 w/sqft. The 165w of LG cover 4sqft for, guess what...41.25 w/sqft. Using this concept then your 4x6 area or 24 sqft would require 990w of good LED. That may be a budget buster.

BTW glad to see you grow SOG size plants, I think there aren't many here that do. I see you are in Canada, if you deal with TI you don't have to go thru the NAFTA paper work where as LumiGrow is Cali based and you may have to. Not sure how it works on your side of the border, but for me to comply with NAFTA rules I must provide a bussiness ID # or a personal social security number, and I've bought a metric shit load of incriminating stuff from Canada. :D
OM

[khyberkitsune]

I did one shipment to Canada, the only thing I had to do was fill out the typical Customs forms from UPS and pick whether or not I handled customs duties or the buyer handled them.

And that was just a couple of months ago, so I don't think there's been enough time for that to change.

[oldmac]

Well on November 11th (Vet's Day) I ordered another FrapaPlas ultra-sonic fogger for someone and I had to give them my ss#.

I just checked the NAFTA certificate of origin, for the US side export.

Look at page 2 FIELD 4, which requires the same deal as FIELD 1. Tax idenification number or social security number.

IDK:wtf:
OM

[macnasty]

Thank you all very much for sharing your expertise with me, and in such a timely manner. I feel I have a much better idea as to what I want now.

Weezer: glad to see I wasn't forgotten by you. Either the popo were engaging in scare tactics and meanwhile having a laugh at my expense, or they were really sifting through dirt without any direction. In any event it was a very strange and terrifying moment for me. But now that the heat is behind me...

As for the suggested brands/models here is what I found:

Procyon 100's - way too expensive. Immediate write off. Too small too. I'd have to purchase a bundle to make it work. No thanks. They are beautiful though.

Wex-c150 - thanks str8 for your input and your eye opening grow logs. However, I was a little disappointed to see that the 150's don't have any deep red @ 660 nm in them. If u remember correctly from your posts they are $450 each? Great price, but how did you get the 660 nm diodes with them?

LumiGrow - They sure know how to write a convincing ad, but just as you mentioned oldmac where are the umoles/s ratings? This is odd because on their website they provide a detailed explanation as to the importance of this figure but I couldn't seem to find it in their product description. Also, there's a seller on eBay getting rid of 2 es-330's for $2,200 USD. Suggested retail is $1500 each. Too bad I don't need those babies anytime soon. Still though, I will keep these on my radar.

TI Probloom - gotta be the most appealing one for me. Tough to beat a registered dealer stationed in Quebec.

Some more math: Ti smartlamp - 186 umols/s @ 330 watts = 1.75 umols/s/w

Ti smartbar - 124 umols/s x 2 @ 430 watts = 1.75 umols/s/w

conclusion: exactly the same performance. The SmartBar is $500 more naturally. I'm torn.

I think the SmartBar is my best bet since the bars are more versatile and accomodate my space much better. Although it's a 4x6 area I really only use half of that, shaped in a block letter C. Hence the bars, not squares.

Sorry to keep you in suspense Weez but I'm really only in the brainstorming phase of this project right now. It will be months before I start anything concrete. But rest assured I will make the wait worth while. And yes, it looks like I'm going to need to re evaluate my budget if I'm going to do this properly, either that or just decrease the overall size. Very likely. I may have to settle with a 5x2 arrangement using the SmartBar. Seems convenient.

Oldmac, does the ProBloom come preconfigured, no wavelength tinkering necessary? And lastly, are they sufficient as a stand alone, or do they require supplemental lighting? I think I remember you using a few T5HO 2700K's?

Thanks again.

[oldmac]

I actually built a 4 light 4' frame to hold 2700k T5s, but me being me I overdrive them with a IceCap ballast to get 85w VHO (HO=54w). The 2 TIs where in the middle of the frame. While it accomplished "squareing off" the light footprint it was I admit a failure. Outer rows saw the T5s, inner rows saw the LEDs only some light mixing occured in the mid rows.:( But that's how we learn.

I believe the dealer in Quebec (Innovative Grows? I seem to remember) is actually TI themselves. The 2 principals of the company are Jeff Darrin (again ? on last name doing this from my memory) and a John something, nice people.

No wavelenght tweeking, they are what they are.
But there is the additional cost of setting up water cooling; pump, rez hoseing etc. Also they are 220v input but you can get a step-up transformer for 110v. They offer one but you can probably find one cheaper yourself.

I will tell you that I do use some supplemental lighting with them and also the other 2 trays (located right below them) that use 1kw PSMH; I have a few incandescent halogen lights that supply lots of far red. I use these as what I call "trigger" lights, they come on 1/2HR before the main lights and stay on another 1/2hr. And they come on again 1/2hr before lights out and stay on for a 1/2hr after the main lights go off. I got this idea from a glasshouse operator near me a few years ago. He said it helps the plant to get going in the beginning and helps with plant stretch by going off last. I've been doing this for a few years now. Just recently I came across this tech paper, that sorta confirms the end use of far red.
OM

[macnasty]

Interesting. That is some very handy advice for those growing sog. If it's not too late to ask you OM, how much wattage of the far red incandescent do you typically use for your 16 sq f set up?

-youngmac

[oldmac]

Hey macnasty, (young mac) hehe,

I use 100w per tray on the aero/fog set-up.

In my personal grow that is 144 plant sites in a rotating garden, I use 2- 100w bulbs. Nothing technical abt that, it just looked more symetrical. :thumbsup:

OM

[stra8outtaWeed]

hi new mac :jointsmile:

i do have 660nm in mine....50% of the diodes are 660nm

welthink will make lights to customers specs if the order is large enough....and i have found a few people selling lights cheaper that are only 630nm/460nm

Old mac ~ no offense taken but thank you for the apology...i knew the comment was not directed at me....just clarifying where my lights were made :jointsmile: