suggestions on my LED lights set up

[BigTuna]

I'm going to order custom ufo setup from china I made list of wavelengths so please check it out, any suggestion is more than wellcome

going to order three lights, one for flowering, one for veg and one for clones

flowering 137W

660nm 60W
640nm 50W
470nm 5W
440nm 5W
----
740nm 3W
610nm 3W
----
W 3X1W (cool, pure, warm)
620nm 3W
588nm 1W
515nm 3W
400nm 1W


veg 133W

440nm 60W
470NM 50W
660nm 5W
640nm 5W
----
740nm 1W
610nm 1W
515nm 3W
W 3X1W (cool, pure, warm)
620nm 1W
588nm 1W
400nm 3W


cloning 54W

440nm 20W
470nm 20W
660nm 2W
640nm 2W
----
400nm 2W
610nm 1W
W 3X1W (cool, pure, warm)
620nm 1W
588nm 1W
515nm 1W
740nm 1W

[khyberkitsune]

Most of those wavelengths are not going to be used to their highest efficiency.

The main point of LED is to target only the highest reacting wavelengths for photosynthetic and photomorphogenic processes.

Now, that's not to say that those wavelengths WON'T be used, they're just not the most efficient ones for our particular crop, nor are they truly necessary (as you can see with Weezard's Dichroic and my Tri-Band and stra8outtaweed's tri/quad LEDs) for start to finish production.

[BigTuna]

ok, so what do you suggest

[canniwhatsis]

Most of those wavelengths are not going to be used to their highest efficiency.

The main point of LED is to target only the highest reacting wavelengths for photosynthetic and photomorphogenic processes.

Now, that's not to say that those wavelengths WON'T be used, they're just not the most efficient ones for our particular crop, nor are they truly necessary (as you can see with Weezard's Dichroic and my Tri-Band and stra8outtaweed's tri/quad LEDs) for start to finish production.


So your triband falls where? YOU know what I'm up against, and pretty much know where it's at.


For me, at the moment the jury is still out. (for about 4 more weeks! :rastasmoke: )

[khyberkitsune]

ok, so what do you suggest

Stick with red and blue, and increase your blue amount some.

[khyberkitsune]

So your triband falls where? YOU know what I'm up against, and pretty much know where it's at.


For me, at the moment the jury is still out. (for about 4 more weeks! :rastasmoke: )

Going from what I managed to get from the two channels I managed to do before the spider mites came in, This new setup I just did (check my journal) should push me past 1.27g/w if I'm lucky, assuming the same yield per channel across 6 channels.

I'm going to try to flower the entire 6 channels at once this next run, under 330w LED (maybe a bit more, but I'm not pushing past 360. I may replace my 90w with two of my 50w from the mom closet and use the 90w in their place.)

[BigTuna]

change of plans, after reading info on these two pages, I will make it by myself
Growing Marijuana with LED, Growshow (http://www.ledgrow.eu/test7.html)
DIY LEDs - The write-up - Reef Central Online Community (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1587273)

what I would like to know is
what ratio of wavelenghts and which wavelenghts

cause there are two reds, 660nm and 640nm
also there are two blues 440nm and 470nm

[BigTuna]

flowering 178W
DR80/R40/B20/W15/FR10/O5/P5/Y3

top:
deep red 1x50W (panel)
red 2x20W (downlight)
blue 2x10W (downlight)
farred 2x5W (bulb) or 1x5W (bulb)
warm white 1x15W (downlight - 120 angle)
orange 1x5W (bulb)
purple 1x5W (downlight - 120 angle)
yelow 1x3W (downlight - 120 angle)
sides:
deep red 2x15W (downlight - without lens)

vegetating 134W
B90/W15/DR10/FR10/P3/O3/Y3

top:
blue 1x60W (panel)
deep red 2x5W (downlight)
farred 2x5W (downlight) when/if necessary
warm white 1x15W (downlight - 120 angle)
orange 1x3W (bulb)
purple 1x3W (downlight - 120 angle)
yelow 1x3W (downlight - 120 angle)
sides:
blue 2X15W (downlight)

cloning 40W
B30/W5/DR5

blue 1x30W (panel)
warm white 1x5W (downlight)
deepred 1x5W (downlight)

or

flowering 178W
DR80/R40/B20/W15/FR10/O5/P5/Y3

top:
deep red 1x50W (panel)
red 2x20W (downlight)
blue 2x10W (downlight)
farred 2x5W (bulb) or 1x5W (bulb)
warm white 1x15W (downlight - 120 angle)
orange 1x5W (bulb)
purple 1x5W (downlight - 120 angle)
yelow 1x3W (downlight - 120 angle)
sides:
deep red 2x15W (downlight - without lens)

vegetating 122W
B90/W15/DR10/P5/O1/Y1 (FR5)

top:
blue 1x60W (panel)
deep red 2x5W (downlight)
farred 1x5W (downlight) when/if necessary
warm white 1x15W (downlight - 120 angle)
orange 1x1W (bulb)
purple 1x5W (downlight - 120 angle)
yelow 1x1W (downlight - 120 angle)
sides:
blue 2X15W (downlight)

cloning 40W
B30/W5/DR5

blue 1x30W (panel)
warm white 1x5W (downlight)
deepred 1x5W (downlight)

or

flow:
DR120/B20/W10/FR10
veg:
B120/W15/DR10/FR5

Wich is better !? or which would you make

also does 1W-3W of Y, O, P have any effect

[oldmac]

Hello BigTuna and welcome to the boards.

You are making this LED light way more complicated then need be.

A plants growth of chlorophyll A peaks at abt 435nm (blue) and (660nm deep red)
It's growth of chlorophyll B peaks at abt 450nm (blue) and 635nm (red).

Anything else the plant needs is minor, or can be provided by supplemental lighting cheaper (such as 730nm, far red or even UV).

BTW, How do you know that a mfg in ShangHai, bum fuck China, really has a 660nm LED?
Don't trust them!

Just saw or realized you are giving up having them made in China and are going to build them yourself....just make sure to buy good diodes.
You should check out LedEngin, Inc.
OM

[BigTuna]

Nice to be here oldmac !

Well the more I read the more I'm getting confused.

I read that there are peaks on 667nm, 642nm, 469nm, 439nm
blue gives me the most trouble cause let say china make blue in only 460-470nm
I never found anything in 439nm range.

I know that I should not trust china about 660nm cause I spoke to a lot of companies and only few had this in their inventory, and from them I could only trust one cause he said that they make just 1w, 3w and 5w all above that would be unstable, and they cant couple this leds.

Also, wouldn't be possible to eliminate blue and make this combo:
for chlorophyll A 660nm
for chlorophyll B 635nm

The most I don't understand all UFOs are made in china, and people grow their plants with them, some poor and give up others do very well. But they do it. All are those all lies.

Also about warm white, I read that it has blue wavelengths in it, which ones, 469nm or 439nm.

Unfortunately, I don't have much money to buy brand name leds like cree, edison or ledengin and more unfortunately I live in a place where you cannot buy proper large heatsinks so I give up of making it myself cause it would cost a lot of money for just 50w.

So the newest idea was to buy about 300-400W of spotlights from china. This was what I intended to do:

Pink 410nm
3pcs 2W (1x2W spotlight or 2x1W spotlight)
3pcs 1W (1x1W spotlight)

Blue 460nm
3pcs 7W (7x1W spotlight or 3x3W spotlight)
4pcs 30W (10x3W panel or 6x5w downlight or 30x1W panel or 3x3x3W spotlight + 1W spotlight)
6pcs 5W (1x5W spotlight or 3x2W spotlight or 5x1W spotlight)

Warm White
7pcs 5W (1x5W spotlight or 2x3W spotlight or 5x1W spotlight)
6pcs 5W (1x5W bulb or 2x3W bulb or 5x1W bulb)

Orange 610nm
3pcs 2W (1x2W spotlight or 2x1W spotlight)
3pcs 1W (1x1W spotlight)

Red 630nm
3pcs 10W (10x1W panel or 2x5W spotlight or 3x3W spotlight + 3x1W spotlight)

DeepRed 660nm
3pcs 20W (20x1W panel or 6x3W spotlight + 1x3W spotlight or 2x12x1W spotlight or 2x10x2W spotlight)
10pcs 5W (1x5W spotlight or 2x3W spotlight or 5x1W spotlight)

FarRed 740nm
3pcs 3W (1x3W spotlight)
3pcs 1W (1x1W spotlight)

but now I don't know what to do anymore
it was idea to have flowering, veg and cloning room
cause of many pcs, idea was to be able to transform flow and veg room, if necessary, to 3 smaller ones all to have independent colors in spotlights, so if in case of need that they could be easily removed or thrown away

also in future to buy brand name leds and these ones to use as a supplement

as I can now see that pink and orange do not have much of an impact I will probably remove them, also I don't have yellow nor green, and I don't know which is better to remove them all or have at least 1W from each one
idea was to have few watts from these lights

[BigTuna]

also I know that there is no peak for chlorophyll B on 630nm but shouldnt some amount still be processed

[BigTuna]

ok here is my new setup
all are spotlights

flowering 183W ~7.4/1/0.8/0.8 (192W ~7.5/0.9/0.8/0.8)

660nm 15x9W (9x12W, 6x6W)
460nm 3x6W
warm white 3x5W
740nm 3x5W

can be transformed into x3 61W each (64W each)
660nm 5x9W (3x12W, 2x6W)
460nm 1x6W
warm white 1x5W
740nm 1x5W

vegging and cloning 171W ~7.9/1.1/0.9/0.2 (180W ~8/1/0.8/0.2)
460nm 15x9W (9x12, 6x6W)
660nm 3x6W
warm white 3x5W
740nm 3x1W

can be transformed into x3 57W each (60W each)
460nm 5x9W (3x12W, 2x6W)
660nm 1x6W
warm white 1x5W
740nm 1x1W


any suggestion on the ratio ?!

how much % of 740nm ?!

enough blue for flowering, to little red for veg ?!

to much white on flowering and veg ?!

enough farred for flowering, to little for veg ?!

[canniwhatsis]

:what::upsidedow:bigsmoke::postexcuseme::wtf:




Didn't understand this thread from the get go.:stoned:

I'd like to say I've learned something,... but I can't. Prolly to :glugglug: :o

[BigTuna]

actualy canni this tread I started is that someone help me build led set up
since noone gave me strait answer it bacame my working tread

i know that 100% of what I said here should be left in my head or recycle bin but it helped me to better understand what to do

as most of the people when buying something with all money you got, you want to buy something that is best in that price range

sorry for a lot of mumbo jumbo but I rarely use forums, and english is not my native language

actualy I learned a lot
to use tri band
that chinese are liars
and to buy 740nm spotlight

[oldmac]

Hey Tuna let me try to give you some more insight on LEDs and lighting.

When an LED (just the diode) is said to be 635nm for example, that is it's peak wavelenght. If you look at it's spectrum graph you'll see that it is a bell curve, with the peak of the curve @ 635 but it has light output above and below that. In the case of a Cree 635, the bell curve is not symetrical. It has slightly more output above 635 then below.

Also talking abt diodes, while we call diode's 1w, 2w, 3w, 5w, 10w or even the 15w ones, you can not run them to that spec. For example a 10w diode will probably run abt 7-8 watts when properly set up. In the case of a DIY hybred light I built, it uses 240 red Cree's that are "2w" each. But I have the current limited to 650ma each so each "2w" diode is only using 1.75 watts, or all 240 of them equals 420watts, not including power consumed by power supplies or drivers.

While it might be nice to have an all LED grow setup, that becomes costly and there are cheaper ways to go.

For clonning or seedlings, all you need is a floroescent tube or even CFL to get the job done. A single 4' T5 HO fixture can be had for abt $35 including a 6500k tube which will work great. If you want to be "trick" abt it you could substitue a Actinic white tube that is really very blue dominate.

For vegging, a LED light comes into it's own, you can do that with a 2 band light. Red and blue is all it takes. A blue diode @ abt 440nm would provide all the blue you need to hit both A&B chloryphill peaks. For red 660nm can't be beat but if a few 635nm where thrown in then better still.

For flowering, a LED light that you used above will work, just need more total watts. Plus if you want to add 730nm far red a much cheaper way to get that is to use a incandescent halogen bulb. A 100w Halogen is like $5, plus they make them in different wattages and they all screw into a regular edison socket.

Speaking of wattages you need, it is hard to know sitting where I am. A lot depends on how big an area your grow is, and also how you grow. I am a firm believer in SOG size plants, finished hgt less then 18" tho most of mine run 14-16". At this size plant light "penertration" is a non-issue. It's just a matter of cramming in alot of plants into the area you have.

Hope I shed some light on the issue. :cool:
OM

[BigTuna]

Great thank you very much for the info

I'm building all led setup cause of the electricity bill, but I will take your advices on cloning and veg.

But how much did you pay for 240 2w crees ?!

[oldmac]

I don't really remember, I got them thru someone who was abt to manufacter a quality light plus I bought 250 of them at one time. This was about 4 yrs ago, they may be cheaper now. But the Cree's were 635nm, most important to you will be 660nm, which were not available back then.

I mentioned before you should check out LedEngin,inc (google them) and consider using thier 5w diodes. They are available mounted on MCPCB and are sold thru Newark Electronics or Mouser Electronics. 5w 660nm are abt $9-10, 630nm are abt $8.50 and 730nm (if you incorporate them) also abt $8.50.

I would have recommended using thier 15w diodes, like Weezard used not to long ago, but they are not available anymore, or "not in the foreseeable future". I offered to buy 100pcs of them, which is a production run, but it did not work out.

OM

[BigTuna]

thank you for answers
i had an accident 3 days ago and wasnt online

take care and best wishes for new year

[alohamahalo]

Aloha braddahs. I was curious as to what kinda drivers and power supplies would be used for the 5w leds at ledengin and How many leds can i solder in series? And what's your guys opinion on that dental blue 5w? Worth using or just got with regular blue?
cheeee!
mahalo ahead of time for your help.

[alohamahalo]

whoops. over looked the wavelenth on the the dental blue. but still if anyone has any suggestions for led drivers please let me know.

[BigTuna]

I gave up on LEDs for now, had a accident and I'm in debt
But I would like to know more about, as for knowledge


For clonning or seedlings, all you need is a floroescent tube or even CFL to get the job done. A single 4' T5 HO fixture can be had for abt $35 including a 6500k tube which will work great. If you want to be "trick" abt it you could substitue a Actinic white tube that is really very blue dominate.

Can veg be done only by Actinic White ? How much W should be enough for 1 m2 ?

[oldmac]

Hey BigTuna,

Actinic white floro tubes work great to encourage rooting, especially to root cuttings and very effective for seedlings. But it lacks other light spectrums for true vegative growth. So after a week or so you would need to go to 6500k floro tubes.

I have seen T5 veg setups where a couple of antinic's are added to multi tube fixtures to increase blue dominance, but there is plenty of blue light in the 6000-6500k floro tubes.

OM

[BigTuna]

Hey oldmac Happy New Year :)

Great info, can you tell me how much W's of T5 HO are enough for area of 1m2 used for veg.

Btw I found this nice review of Atinic white with charts, maybe someone will find it usefull.

Product Review: T5 Fluorescent Lamps: UV Lighting's 'Super Actinic,' 'Actinic White,' and 'Aquasun' High Output T5 Lamps | Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/3/review)