cardholders living together

[StillSmokn]

I am a caregiver for 3 people, I am allowed to have 24 mature plants here in ri as far as i know. I am considering letting one of my patients live at my house, of course with him comes his 12 plants. So I am wondering, is this legal? Are we opening ourselves up for trouble even if we are both seemingly "Legal"?
The issue is whether or not two people can have their cards in the same home.

ANY information, experiences or anything to do with this issue would be a great help. I just cant be the first person to have this problem and the laws are so vague here.

Thank you very much for your help guys!!

[oldhaole]

But like everything else you best cover your bases. I would have your roommate use your address to receieve mail. I would also get him to change the address on his Dirvers Licence to yours. Or register to vote in your district. You know, some paper trail that shows he lives there.

Lastly I would go over your state laws. Just because I can get away with it doesn't mean you can. It should be under co-habitating patients.

[hghflyrjd1]

From what i understand .Yes you can do what u plan BUT each CAREGIVER must have there plants separate from each other.EXAMPLE you cant have a room with all 24 of your plants and have your NEW roommates plants Also in your room.I would make separate areas for each of you and have a sign on each room door stating whos and what is there.and yes change all addresses to the new apartment also.and license

[sixfromCC]

I stay on a side of caution with these totals and stick with what I know is safe. It is not a matter of how many cards there are in one property. It goes by household. example: I have a cg card. my wife has a cg card. So that means we can only have 12 veg and 12 flowering. But if I get a second cg card. We then can go up to 12 veg and 24 flowering.

So with that in mind I would say your walking a fine line... west warwick had a raid on a medical cannabis co-op and the out come we have not seen. But what we know is their plants, meds are gone.

[futureboy]

SixfromCC I have to say that I seem to always agree with what you say, although on this topic I have to disagree. I have read the law, spoken with the Joanne from RIPAC in addition to a lawyer and the way the law reads does not mention any thing about "household". Each caregiver and patient living on a property are allowed to grow and have usable limits independently of one another. If you are:

Caregiver of 1 patient: 12 Flowering and 12 seedlings 2.5 ounces of usable meds

Caregiver of 2-5 patients: 24 flowering and 12 seedlings 5 ounces of usable meds

Patient: 12 flowering and 12 seedlings 2.5 ounces of usable

So that means as a caregiver of one patient each (you and your wife) you are in fact legally allowed to grow 24 flowering and 24 seedlings on your property together and have 5 ounces of usable meds available to your patients. To take this one step further, an individual can be a patient and caregiver, and under the law this person can have 12 and 12 plus 2.5 usable as a patient in addition to the legal caregiver numbers. The only time a "household" or single property come into play is when the number of plants exceeds 100. The Feds can become involved at this point. Which if you do the math is possible for a husband and wife couple whom in the rare case both happen to be patients and caregivers of more than 2 patients.

All that being said there are a number of problems that can arise for all parties that participate in a Coop. From my understanding, the case involving the Coop sixfromCC mentions is facing two problems: 1) more than 100 plants were on the property 2) not all of the legal members who "had plants on the property" claimed them (maybe they had grows else where?).

If you trust the person and you don't have more than 100 plants on the property than you are all good.

[sixfromCC]

Ya know, thats what I thought. If I wanted to challenge the law I would go for it and run 24 veg and 24 flowering. But for now, I want my grow rooms to represent what would be a no brainer for police if they had to come in and investagate me.

Know what would be great? A mag like 1000watts creating a Know The Law edition and mail tons to the state police and state officals.;)

[polarboy]

Ya know, thats what I thought. If I wanted to challenge the law I would go for it and run 24 veg and 24 flowering. But for now, I want my grow rooms to represent what would be a no brainer for police if they had to come in and investagate me.

Know what would be great? A mag like 1000watts creating a Know The Law edition and mail tons to the state police and state officals.;)

You know you are write sixfromcc since as im a reporter for 1000watts i will pass the info on. look in the future issues for that very article and you know it might not be a bad idea to drop a few off at the local and state police. If any one has ideas for an article for the magizine can drop us a line at 1000watts.net or start a thread here and as i comme here to take a look to see if any one needs help i will take all ideas and pass them on. till next time.

keep tokken

[futureboy]

In my opinion the laws set forth by our compassionate RI legislative body are straight forward and concise for the most part. There is no need to feel in anyway that you are challenging the system. The laws were written taking into account the amount of meds and plant numbers neccessary to produce enough meds on a consistent basis for the average caregiver/patient. If you notice it is the cardholders who are a doing things that they shouldn't be doing who are ending up in news stories and making a bad impression on the public about the program. In fact, Polarboy here is an idea, have a section in the mag that people can write in and explain how MMJ has made there life better.

[sixfromCC]

You know you are write sixfromcc since as im a reporter for 1000watts i will pass the info on. look in the future issues for that very article and you know it might not be a bad idea to drop a few off at the local and state police. If any one has ideas for an article for the magizine can drop us a line at 1000watts.net or start a thread here and as i comme here to take a look to see if any one needs help i will take all ideas and pass them on. till next time.

keep tokken

awesome polarboy! I know I missed the Dec 4th deadline but could you get Drew to call me? he has my number.

[sixfromCC]

In my opinion the laws set forth by our compassionate RI legislative body are straight forward and concise for the most part. There is no need to feel in anyway that you are challenging the system. The laws were written taking into account the amount of meds and plant numbers neccessary to produce enough meds on a consistent basis for the average caregiver/patient. If you notice it is the cardholders who are a doing things that they shouldn't be doing who are ending up in news stories and making a bad impression on the public about the program. In fact, Polarboy here is an idea, have a section in the mag that people can write in and explain how MMJ has made there life better.

You are right with your opinion. But so to say, a police officer or the fire department would have to enter my house because of a unrelated event. At that point I would have to prove my grow is for medical reasons. My wife is at work and can't make it home to say she is also a card holder. I do stand a chance of going to jail, kids taking away, plants destroyed. Patients go without cannabis....
When the police come you can't walk around with them to tell them what is what can you? The videos I saw from Steve Kubby's arrest which is now off-line. It was on his Pot-tv News show in 2002/2003. It showed police picking clones up by the stem. If the soil came up with the cut they counted it. If the cutting came out of the dirt they did not count it. His total plants were way over the 99 mark set by Californiaâ??s medical cannabis law which was posted on the door of his grow room.

At that point wouldnâ??t I or someone else have to challenge what to me (and most likely the state police) looks like a loop hole in the law?

[futureboy]

Loophole in the law? Can u explain. The law only talks about people as cardholders and how much usable medication and plants that each cardholder can legally have. " Household" does not play any kind of role in the text of the bill because the legislators were not against the theory of a coop. Anyway, if your not comfortable with the rights you have than good for you for doing what you do feel comfortable with. For any of you who don't know, the text of the bill can be found on theRI dept of health website. Please don't think that I am trying to be a dick about this sixfromCC. I just think that people should know what is allowed by the law according to the text and how a lawyer and more importantly a judge would read it. That being said, you are totally right that it would blow to deal with the police being wrong and destroying your grow and fing with your family life until a judge cleared you. Therefore, if Polarboy does his job and gets this info into the hands of our law enforcement officals than you will have no more worries. Just kidding PB

[sixfromCC]

No worries! It's always good to discuss these points. It's how we learn and should never be discouraged. Well if something awful were to happen any of us I hope we all can rally around each other and show we support our efforts to help others. And to show our disgust in jailing people for a plant.

[StillSmokn]

I really appreciate all the feedback guys. The question really came up because me and a friend were planning on getting a place together and i had my two caregiver cards already. In the mix of finding a place he got his patient card so thats where the issue starts... I personally think the law says we could have 36 flowering plants and 24 seedlings along with 7.5 oz useable in the house, of course these are max amounts and a gram or clone over would be serious problems. But i don't see how if he lives in the house 24/7 (is on call for work) and I work from home 75% there should be TOO much room for trouble. I guess like someone mentioned it all comes down to whether the friend will claim them and hold up on his end of the bargain.

I wouldn't however have his plants at my house and say photocopy his card and put it on the wall. This seems as though it could backfire very quickly. But I have heard of many people doing this

Also the changing of addresses on licenses seems to be a good idea as well. I thank everyone again for the awesome feedback as it seems sad but I really do spend alot of time worrying about this.

[sixfromCC]

21-28.6-4 (http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE21/21-28.6/21-28.6-4.HTM)


this is from: § 21-28.6-4 Protections for the medical use of marijuana

(c) A primary caregiver, who has in his or her possession, a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to, civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marijuana; provided, that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marijuana which does not exceed twelve (12) mature marijuana plants and two and one-half (2.5) ounces of usable marijuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process.

(d) Registered primary caregivers and registered qualifying patients shall be allowed to possess a reasonable amount of unusable marijuana, including up to twelve (12) seedlings, which shall not be counted toward the limits in this section.

[sixfromCC]

this is from the doh pdf of the bill
http://sos.ri.gov/documents/archives/regdocs/released/pdf/DOH/5923.pdf

Registered Primary Caregiver and Registered Qualifying Patient Possession Limits. The following possession limits are established for each registered primary caregiver and registered qualifying patient:
3
2.8.1 A registered primary caregiver may possesses an amount of marijuana which does not exceed twelve (12) mature marijuana plants and two and one-half (2.5) ounces of usable marijuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the Department's registration process established pursuant to these Regulations.
2.8.2 Notwithstanding the provisions of §2.8.1 of these Regulations, no primary caregiver other than a compassion center shall possess an amount of marijuana in excess of twenty-four (24) mature marijuana plants and five (5) ounces of usable marijuana for qualifying patients to whom he or she is connected through the Department's registration process established pursuant to these Regulations.
2.8.3 A registered qualifying patient may possesses an amount of marijuana which does not exceed twelve (12) mature marijuana plants and two and one-half (2.5) ounces of usable marijuana.
2.8.4 Registered primary caregivers and registered qualifying patients shall be allowed to possess a reasonable amount of unusable marijuana, including up to twelve (12) seedlings, which shall not be counted toward the limits established in §§2.8.1 and 2.8.3 of these Regulations.

[StillSmokn]

sixfromcc i understand the bill but what i cant find and dont understand is how those limits apply when combining people and cards in the same home. what if the door gets kicked in and my friend is on vacation, he clearly lives there, his bed clothes and everthing (including plants) is there but he isn't and cant be reached what happens?

[sixfromCC]

The law is so damn vague! lol I would not be surprised if you got in trouble. But I would be thrilled and jump for joy if they said your fine; you can go about your business.
But we just will not know unless it happens. So letâ??s call the police on ourselves! just kidding
:stoned:

[futureboy]

These are my last words on this subject because I refuse to subject my self to the paranoia anymore. One of the unfortunate side affects of canabis for some people is just that. I mean come on, you are talking like you should never leave your grow cause you might get busted for not having the plants in a secure facility (no one is there to watch, so how can it be secure). People can go on vacation and leave for work for God sakes! The law is written for your protection, thats it. Follow it, and you will be fine.

I do however suggest that photo copies of your MMJ cards for each patient and caregiver growing plants in that location be posted in plain sight. It would also be a wise idea to have a copy of the bill there as well.

[OldHead09]

Futureboy....A little paranoia goes a long way.....


I say to everyone be as careful as you can whether its one plant or a thousand, remember the first rule of "Grow Club"..... Tell no one of the grow club! Be discreet, be polite and be discreet, and be discreet, and be discreet..........

[futureboy]

Olldhead maybe your screen name, but ODB is your new name in my book. Why? I said I was done with this thread but look how you managed to bring me right back in. Bastard! Anyway being discrete, cautious, responsible, law abiding are of utmost importance. You could probably add a couple of other adjectives to the list. Paranoia may be a motivator for some people to be discrete etc. But it has no place in a sick patients life. Stress just makes people more sick. The laws are clear regarding this topic on caregivers and patients and the plant limits and usable med numbers and if "cooping" were not intended by the legislators than a line of text would have been drafted expressing that caregivers and or patients are not allowed to grow on the same property or put numbers on how many patients/caregivers can grow together.

All that being said, there are lines within the text that are not precise and do allow for some debate and therefore maybe points of contention in a legal case. Two examples are: first, the text related to "seedlings" which says that they are considered all plants that do not have visable flowers. So is a preflower on a plant clearly in a vegetative state being used as a clone mother considered one of your flowering plants? This is a real and debatable problem and in my opinion a person that is being cautious might consider counting every plant as a flowering plant. Example 2, the text states that "usable meds are the dried flowers etc etc. Ok so the scientific def of dry is 0 percent water weight. In that case, most of us are never using "usable" meds. Properly cured meds still contain a small amount of water. So the intelligent patient or caregiver covers their back by considering usable meds that which can be smoked.

[futureboy]

Thought that this was a fitting quote for this disscussion.


"Sometimes paranoia's just having all the facts."
William S. Burroughs