Photoperiod

[dkm287]

Sooo been reading alot in photoperiod...without going into detail - long nights long days tell th plant winter is coming, forcing the plants to produce the buds and seeds

I've been using 12/12 lighting and understand most do the same

if I'm going 24 hour light for the veg, would it be possible to 24 on 24 off? I mean, were creating our own environment right? How is the plant to know?

Anyways, has any one tried this? Or have any insight on how it would work?

[PhatJay]

long nights long days tell th plant winter is coming

err.. winter is long nights and short days.

As far as I understand it, sunlight breaks down the chemical that plants need to flower. So when you shorten the day and lengthen the night, the chemical that makes the plants flower builds up, making the plant bud. This is why some people do 48-72 hours darkness before switching to 12/12.


I don't think your idea is going to work, but it will be interesting to read other peoples opinions. I also fail to see what gain 24/24 would have.

[drudown11]

[quote=dkm287] I mean, were creating our own environment right? How is the plant to know?
QUOTE]

The idea is not to create your own environment, but to try to imitate the perfect and ideal growing environment for cannibis.

The Marijuana plant has evolved and adapted certain traits over many years. By screwing with the photoperiod like that during flowering you would likely develop some hermi flowers at some point or another.

ide stick to the normal 12/12

[GetThisOrDie]

I agree with dru.

How is the plant to know? lol... because the plant is inside your environment trying to grow.

The idea like dru said is to reproduce the ideal environment for our herbs.

[tinytoon]

hmmm last time I checked the sun came up in the morning and goes down at night and it doesn't take 24 hours for it to happen.

The plant knows and likes what mother nature has done so my thought would be Don't fuck with Mother Nature! :jawdropper:

[LOC NAR on probation]

the plant responds to photoperiod. The dark will work but not the light. Phtotoperiod over 14 hours and plants will not flower no matter how long the dark.

[dkm287]

I uderstand all your points, but I'm not saying I'm in favor of this idea just trying to get a little theory discussion

"don't fuk with mother nature" good point but I am mother nature as far as my plants are concerned...

I guess I'm saying time is time blah blah blah I'm not going to go into my thought on the time space continuum because I'm super baked hah

my point is that 12 hours can still be 12 hours even if it's 24 hours (try and stay with me)

So with that bein said can my plant (after beig exposed to 24 hour light prior to bloom) how is the plant to understand that there even is a certain length of day and night?

Making sense? Probably not hah

lst, sea of green, topping, all methods used as if we are mother mature

It is my understanding that the plant tells the difference by seasonal light and forces of nature that have always been, so my real point in this ramble is why wouldn't anyone think I can fuk with the psychology of the plant and tricking it Into 24 hour light 24 hour dark... I think this would potentially double everything a plant would if it were using 12/12

[dkm287]

And also, iv read people switching to 8/8, and actually shortening days and nights...any thoughts on that either? Whatdo you guys use and what hav you experimented with as well?

[PhatJay]

I uderstand all your points, but I'm not saying I'm in favor of this idea just trying to get a little theory discussion

"don't fuk with mother nature" good point but I am mother nature as far as my plants are concerned...

I guess I'm saying time is time blah blah blah I'm not going to go into my thought on the time space continuum because I'm super baked hah

my point is that 12 hours can still be 12 hours even if it's 24 hours (try and stay with me)

So with that bein said can my plant (after beig exposed to 24 hour light prior to bloom) how is the plant to understand that there even is a certain length of day and night?

Making sense? Probably not hah

lst, sea of green, topping, all methods used as if we are mother mature

It is my understanding that the plant tells the difference by seasonal light and forces of nature that have always been, so my real point in this ramble is why wouldn't anyone think I can fuk with the psychology of the plant and tricking it Into 24 hour light 24 hour dark... I think this would potentially double everything a plant would if it were using 12/12

:wtf:

[dkm287]

What don't you understand?

I'm trying to have a discussion...you didn't really contribute to our conversation?

[dkm287]

Sorry didn't mean to sound bitchy, just got home from work and haven't smoked yet

I'm serious on this subject, does anyone really follow the fact that each of us Is metaphorically mother nature...nutes and grow methods aside, if the earth was to spin slower initially, our first seeds would have seen a 24 hour day with ideal conditions and all that...

The only thing I'm changing is length of day...more light more time to store the "chemical"... ....more darkness, more time to put that to use...

It's just a theory, I'm not an expert grower by any means...I just think there's alot more to mother nature an the universe that just what is, is.

Catch my drift

[PhatJay]

What don't you understand?


I didn't understand these bits... You even say at the end, that what you have said probabaly doesn't make sense.


"don't fuk with mother nature" good point but I am mother nature as far as my plants are concerned...

I guess I'm saying time is time blah blah blah I'm not going to go into my thought on the time space continuum because I'm super baked hah

my point is that 12 hours can still be 12 hours even if it's 24 hours (try and stay with me)



I talked about how the plants tell in my earlier post and I think you missed part of a sentence in this next part, which makes it even more confusing.


So with that bein said can my plant (after beig exposed to 24 hour light prior to bloom) how is the plant to understand that there even is a certain length of day and night?

Making sense? Probably not hah



It is my understanding that the plant tells the difference by seasonal light and forces of nature that have always been, so my real point in this ramble is why wouldn't anyone think I can fuk with the psychology of the plant and tricking it Into 24 hour light 24 hour dark... I think this would potentially double everything a plant would if it were using 12/12

People have explained why they think this won't work. Why don't you explain to us why you think it will?


I'm trying to have a discussion...you didn't really contribute to our conversation?

I contributed to the discussion/conversation in my first post on this thread. Unles you start saying why you think this method is going to double your crop, there is very little left to discuss. It would also help if you didn't miss out words and parts of sentences.

[Slevinkal]

I understand the logic here but still, its irrelevant.

So maybe, just maybe the plant doesnt grow on an hourly cycle, so maybe it grows on a ratio cycle. No matter how many hours of light there is applied if the same ratio as 12/12 is applied the plant should flower, right? If 16 hours of light followed by 8 hours of darkness is 2:1 ratio then you could theoretically double veg production by applying light at a 32/16 schedule.

Following the same logic as you one could theorize that 96/96 would be what, 4 times more productive than your wimpy 24/24 schedule? Does that even sound feasible to you?

There has to be a cut-off limit on the cycle wether its hourly or ratio.

Maybe experimenting with a single plant in a 16/16 schedule would be a good start. I wouldnt waste a plant on it though because if merely changing to a 16/16 schedule was more productive than 12/12 then that is what we would be reading these days. Somebody somewhere would have found this to be fact by now.

[LOC NAR on probation]

I say it's easier to try than explain why it won't work.

I would be very interested to see a grow done this way to see.

Really I think it would take several generation to find the answers.

Re invent the wheel and do a growlog.

[dkm287]

phat jay, relax. and i was only talking to you about your post where you copy and pasted my post and then put up a confused face

im sorry for the mix up and appreciate your input, i took it into some serious consideration!! thanks so much, and i will try to edit and revise my posts before i post them as i go...i have been typing from a touch screen and i have kind of fat fingers and figure the information were trying to get across is a little more important than the grammar but again i apologize for any inconvenience...




anyways, key word: ratio, haha i guess thats the word i was looking for

i hadnt even thought of 96/96, or even tripling day lengths, or even having any ratio for an extended length of time

this is why im on here posting these discussions because it actually gets people to think different ways...i begining to doubt that 24/24 would work at first but your point on having maybe 16/16 and trying to train a strain to slowly adapt to being able to handle longer days and longer nights from generation to generation

with all the negative feedback i got i dont think id be trying this any time soon, maybe once im a little more experienced ill try it

and i hope its not reinventing the wheel haha couldnt we consider this just another method of training?

[PhatJay]

phat jay, relax.

If I were any more relaxed I would be asleep.



Lets try and put this another way...

Lets say plants need 3 main things to grow.

Light
Food
Air

To increase the amount you can produce on a cannabis plant you either need to put more in, or use what you have more efficiently. When you vegged your plants 24/0 as opposed to 18/6, you got 6 more hours of light within a 24 hour cycle putting 25% more light energy into your plant. Therefore it would be logical to conclude that this would increase the growth rate (although there is still a lot of debate on this subject by expert growers).

You propose 24/24 instead of 12/12. You are gaining no advantage ratio wise.

In a 48 hour period using either method the plant still only gets 24 hours of light and 24 hours of dark. So you are putting exactly the same amount of energy in, how is your method going to double the crop? (this is ignoring the fact that your plant would get stressed and most likely turn into a hermie).

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, just changed from one form into another.

[dkm287]

again good points, im not specifically talking about doubling my crop...ive read that messing with different ratios changes QUALITY and QUANTITY as well

im all about low stress, ive been extremely anal about my conditions this grow from ph to ppm to exact lighting times and nute schedule...as of right now i have 3 plants and im able to keep a close eye on everything because of my grow size

listening is the first step to learning and like i think i said before i wasnt specifically set on this method, i just wanted to see what some people on this forum thought about it

so tell me this now, im using flourescents...clerks at the local hydro store told me to veg at 12/12 and bloom at 12/12...what was he talking about? why didnt he think 24 hour light in veg was necessary? and what effect does that have going into the photoperiod? i mean like how is the plant to discern the difference in going to "longer nights"

[Slevinkal]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, just changed from one form into another.

Damned Alchemist :D


.clerks at the local hydro store told me to veg at 12/12 and bloom at 12/12...what was he talking about? why didnt he think 24 hour light in veg was necessary? and what effect does that have going into the photoperiod?

Maybe he doesn't know the diff between his elbow and his @@@hole too? Just cause you work at/own/manage a hydro shop doesn't mean you know anything about plants. He could just be a good business man, not a good grower?

[Slevinkal]

BTW, I give props plus rep for this thread...

It's debates and ideas like this that lead to new levels of growing.

This is the speculum of the quote in my sig: The only dumb question is the question never asked!

Good debate! :thumbsup:

[tinytoon]

Loc brought up a good point saying it would take a few generations to see a difference. What we do is try to mimmick what mother nature does so to change to different lighting you are going to have to relearn the genetics of that strain.
Atleast thats what I think :jointsmile:

[PhatJay]

im not specifically talking about doubling my crop...



I think this would potentially double everything

I think I have wasted enough time in this thread.



clerks at the local hydro store told me to veg at 12/12 and bloom at 12/12...what was he talking about?

I suspect you weren't listening.

[dkm287]

Ok dude, you caught me. Nice job. How significant do you feel?

[dkm287]

Slev...so why would he suggest it, I didn't ask him to go I to detail cause I was set on 24 hour light for veg

[dkm287]

Slev...so why would he suggest it, I didn't ask him to go I to detail cause I was set on 24 hour light for veg

[Slevinkal]

Slev...so why would he suggest it, I didn't ask him to go I to detail cause I was set on 24 hour light for veg

The clerk dude at the hydro shop?

I don't know why he would suggest that. I can't speak for anyone elses actions man :D


But, you're right, 24/0 for veg is a whole helluva lot better than that 12/12 crap he suggested, I'd go 18/6. He may have been having a really bad day and slipped up and, then again, he may just be a dumb-ass that thinks he's a know it all.

12/12 is spot on for flowering though.

[Horsemanrocks]

Hereâ??s an excerpt from an article over at CannaStats

Because the flowering response of cannabis is triggered by the duration of the dark phase, it will flower when it receives 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness, but it will not flower with 12 hours of interrupted darkness. Manipulating light timer settings in such a way as to provide 12 hours of light over a 24 hour period, but not permitting 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness to occur, can reduce growth by 25% when compared to the traditional 16 hour vegetative photoperiod without triggering the flowering response. A timer capable of 4 on/off cycles per day, using the settings in the following table, will produce such results.

The whole article here: CannaStats - Low Maintenance Mothering (http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/mothering.htm)

It makes me wonder how the guys in the extremely northern climates with very long days get their mota to flower?

HMR

[dkm287]

thats a really sweet article..thanks for sharing haha i read it like 3 times

so i got flourescents and a timer that allows me to have 4 different on off periods...im definitly going to try and work with that next grow

heres a few pics of what i have now, havent posted pics in a while soooo....

[dkm287]

another