Creepy problem!!

[simplegreentoo]

Take a look----Newbie asks," N difficiency, too hot for tops (with low heat LCD), or over-feeding?



Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. Advanced LED panel 3 Watt
.2) Distance from tops? 8-10 inches
.3) Reflector type? Enclosed LED panel
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Yes
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? Yes
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 3 Watt per bulb, 350 total wattage... 24 hours on

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil Sunleaves Rocks
.8) Size of container. 8 inch net pot in DWC
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? Grow cube

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? Well water What's it's ph before adjusting? 8.7 ph
11) Method of checking water ph. Constant monitor
12) Method of adjusting water ph. PH down
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. GH Nova Bloom-Grow @ 1tsp. per gallon... Roots are fogged (haven't reached nutrient level)... Ten minutes every three hours into pot
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? NA - ten minutes every three hours into pot
15) Any additives or tea's? No
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? Stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? 6.1 in and 6.2 out
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? Yes, with Karma one quarter strength 2-3 times per day

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Indoor Box
20) What size of closet, room or hut? 2X4X6 feet
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? Temp is 85 (high) on... NA - 24 hour schedule... Relative humidity is 35... CO2 supplementation... 1200 ppm high reading, 850 average reading
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? No

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? The Church
24) From seeds or clones? Seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? No

Thanks so much for any insight!!!

Peace,

MAM
__________________

[headshake]

what exaclty are we supposed to be looking at? what is the problem?

-shake

[simplegreentoo]

oops... here are the pics

[Terps]

your pH is stable...
your temps dont go any higher then 80...
your using your nutes correctly...

hmmm

What is the ppm//tds//ec of your nutrient solution? (Starting with well water i may suspect you have a high Total dissolved salts (TDS) to begin with, what is your PPM before you add any nutes, and what is it after you add nutes?) ...for vegging plants you want to stick around 600 ppm

What do your roots look like (Healthy and white? or brown and crappy?) (if they havnt popped out of the net cups yet, how are you watering...top water or just increased the water lvl in your res?)

Did you rinse off and soak your grow rocks until the pH of the water your soaking them in does not fluctuate at all? (did you do the same to the grow cubes before use)

What is your water res temp?

...id maybe hold off on the foliar feed tell u get the problem under controll

[headshake]

there is really no need to foliar feed unless you are trying to correct a defficiency. it is possible (and probable) that you are clogging the stomata by feeding 2-3 times per day. this in-turn would block the uptake of your co2.

temps should run around 85-90 to take advantage of co2 supplementation. are you running a sealed room? or are is your exhasut on a timer?

you called yourself a noob? how exactly new are you?

did you soak the "grow cube"? can you define "grow cube" as well. jiffy puck, rapid rooter, rockwool etc....

you say you are running DWC yet say that you feed ten minutes every three hours. and you are fogging the roots? can you elaborate on this.

are the roots staying in 100% humidity?


-shake

can you tell us about your light.

[simplegreentoo]

Please note some changes to original troubleshooting form:

8. 8 inch net pot is NOT in DWC
9. Rapid Rooter grow cubes
10. Well water is now RO water at 0 TDS and 8.5 ph
13. GH Flora Nova (grow) 7-4-10, 1 tsp per gallon. 4X1/4" tubes per pot, not saturating rocks thoroughly, with feeding 10 minutes every three hours
18. Not foliar feeding as of two days ago

Initially well water was 600 TDS base and 1150 with nutes. Switched to RO water and are still purging with 300 PPM solution. (Zero PPM RO water plus residual nutrient solution from container).

Roots are white and healthy, just emerging from net pots into fogged container, two inches above solution. Solution is presently mid 70s, but attempting to reduce to mid 60s.

Rapid Rooter cubes were not rinsed. Rocks were rinsed, but not tested.

Sealed grow room now vented at 85 degrees, previously 90. Passive fresh air vents and circulation fans always on.

This is our first grow and plants are seven weeks from seed. They are only 6 inches tall and bushy. Both plants have tiny white hairs at top and on leaves. Isn't this small given CO2 supp? Light is being reduced by 1/2 hour per day with 12/12 in 9 days.

The Advanced LED light is a 180 watt, 11 wave length, 3 watt LED panel.

Thanks much for the feedback and more would be appreciated.

Later

[drudown11]

Please note some changes to original troubleshooting form:

8. 8 inch net pot is NOT in DWC
9. Rapid Rooter grow cubes
10. Well water is now RO water at 0 TDS and 8.5 ph
13. GH Flora Nova (grow) 7-4-10, 1 tsp per gallon. 4X1/4" tubes per pot, not saturating rocks thoroughly, with feeding 10 minutes every three hours
18. Not foliar feeding as of two days ago

Initially well water was 600 TDS base and 1150 with nutes. Switched to RO water and are still purging with 300 PPM solution. (Zero PPM RO water plus residual nutrient solution from container).

Roots are white and healthy, just emerging from net pots into fogged container, two inches above solution. Solution is presently mid 70s, but attempting to reduce to mid 60s.

Rapid Rooter cubes were not rinsed. Rocks were rinsed, but not tested.

Sealed grow room now vented at 85 degrees, previously 90. Passive fresh air vents and circulation fans always on.

This is our first grow and plants are seven weeks from seed. They are only 6 inches tall and bushy. Both plants have tiny white hairs at top and on leaves. Isn't this small given CO2 supp? Light is being reduced by 1/2 hour per day with 12/12 in 9 days.

The Advanced LED light is a 180 watt, 11 wave length, 3 watt LED panel.

Thanks much for the feedback and more would be appreciated.

Later


exactly what hydroponic method aer you using. If the plants are in net pots but arent dwc, how exactly are they getting water and nutrients.

at a glance the sagging leaves and overall yellowing of the leaves looks like overwatering. How often are they getting fed? How are they getting fed? You havent really answered these questons yet so we cant even really give you a suggestion. She looks like she might be drowning.



while some of your leaves are yellowing, it doesnt raelly look like N defiency to me. Too high, or too low of a PH looks more likely. Make sure you properly PH all nutrient solutions after adding fertilizer. Check your PH in your res every day to make sure its not bouncing between acidic or alkaline.

[simplegreentoo]

Plants are growing roots through net pot rocks and will reach nutrient solution when they have grown a few more inches. In the meantime, they are being hydrated by the fogger, which fogs the space between the surface of the solution and the container top and up into the pots and through the rocks. The plants are watered/fed 10 minutes every three hours.

[Terps]

The fogger might be drowning the roots if it is continuously ran... you need lots of Oxygen in the root zone! ...id maybe stop the fogger and feed the plants from the top of the net pot until the roots are long enough. What method of hydroponics are you growing with? do you use air stones to pump oxygen into your nute solution? you cant just have your roots sitting in stagnant water, even in Ebb-n-flow (Flood-n-drain) you want to put a few air stones in your res to keep the nutrient solution well mixed and aerated.

Your PPM's were high, good choice on switching over to RO water, maybe that will help.

To me it does not look like a deficiency, it looks like nute burn! make sure your pH pen is calibrated correctly with pH calibration solution (I no when i purchased BOTH my pH pens from the hydro-store they were NOT calibrated correctly and i had to purchase calibration solution)

Make sure you are checking your pH OFTEN! ....you can not check it enough in 1 day.... i check mine almost every time i walk by the grow room (some times up to 7 or 8 times a day!)

...im rly surprised your not having pH swings considering u didnt rly rinse or pH your stones. usually if u dont rinse//soak///rinse//soak (keep doing it) until the water you rinse is the same pH as when u soaked

I hope i read that wrong and your pH in your nutrient solution is NOT 8.5...

[simplegreentoo]

Will discontinue the fogger.
Aerating with two flexible aeration tubes.
We did calibrate the monitor before using it and again last night. It's right on.
Will up how often we check ph. The 8.5 is what the water is before we adjust it. We keep it 5.8-6.5.
Thanks for keeping tabs on us!

[headshake]

if you are growing your plant in a bucket with an airstone that is DWC.

you don't need to be using co2 until you have your stuff dialed in. so your exhaust fan doesn't run constantly?

when using RO you HAVE TO USE a CALMAG supplement!!! bump your PPMs up to 200-250 and then add your nutes.

there is no need to soak RRs.

do you have a link for the light, or the exact manufacturer/name?


-shake

[Terps]

*im not saying discontinue the fogger for good, just until you figure out the problem.

Also with the discontinued use of the fogger make sure your root zone is not drying out completely (Roots will not survive in dry conditions)

...lets see some more pictures! more detailed pictures of your set up and maybe a quick shot of inside your res. your kind of leaving us in the dark on what method of hydroponics you are using. sounds to me like a foggoponics//ebb-n-flow//dwc cross haha

[headshake]

also, the fogger is pretty useless unless it's ultrasonic. if this is your first grow, try to keep it as simple as possible.


-shake

[simplegreentoo]

Attached are photos of the 2x4x6 cabinet, which is lined with IR Blocker reflective film. Net pots are hung on wooden top to a rubbermade container, which sits inside insulating sheeting. Nutrient solution is 2" below bottom of net pots with fog (ultrasonic) in between top and surface of solution, which is aerated with 2 6' flexible air stones and aggitated with recirculating pump, which also feeds 15min each 3 hours. Solution is 5.8 to 6.1ph and around 600ppm, since flushing a few days ago and is changed each week. Fert. is GH NovaBloom, two part. Solution temp is around mid-70's, so it is circulated thru fridge, bringing temp down to mid 60's.

Exhaust fan is on 15min/hour and also thermostatically controlled to vent at 90 degrees. CO2 augmentation is coordinated with regular venting and lights on schedule and keeps concentrations at 800 to 1200ppm CO2.

Plants seem better since purging and have restarted rapid growth. Light is being reduced 1/2 hour per day and we are 11 days from 12/12.

Thanks for all the help and comments!!!

[Terps]

the new growth looks good! id stay with the lower ppm's for awhile and then slowly start to raise them back up once u are into flowering. Id stick with the RO water & CalMag+ it seems to be working.

The yellowing on the lower leaves is probably permanent, just make sure the new growth doesnt start to yellow up on you (that means u still have a problem!)