New Prop 19 poll results released....

[StoneMeadow]

...and with two weeks to go before the election, support for the measure has slipped from last month.


Support To Legalize Marijuana Drops Below Majority

Today, 44 percent of likely voters plan to vote for Proposition 19â??the measure that would legalize marijuanaâ??while 49 percent plan to vote against it, with 7 percent undecided. This is an 8-point drop in support since September (52% yes, 41% no, 7% undecided). Support has declined among Democrats (56% today, 63% September), dropped sharply among independents (40% today, 65% September), and remains low among Republicans (30% today, 32% September). Support has declined across nearly all demographic groups, most strikingly among Latinos (42% today, 63% September). Most likely voters say the outcome of the vote on Proposition 19 is important (52% very important, 28% somewhat important). Those planning to vote no are more likely to consider the outcome very important (67%) than those planning to vote yes (40%).

Source: Public Policy Institute (http://www.ppic.org/main/pressrelease.asp?p=1056) poll, released October 20th, 2010.

[mikeyman]

well if it doesn't pass we can thank the asshole growers.If it doesn't pass we all should grow our own.:cool:

[nmesub]

Im skeptical that its going to pass, to much greed involved.Plus from post from the various news sites comments alot of supporters dont even know that you can vote from home via mail. When it comes down to it i believe alot of folks will be staying home getting stoned...oops i forgot was today election day? Hope i am wrong. I am sick of living in fear simply because I have a few plants in my home. I am not able to get a medcard for my pain because i have a federal drivers license. In the end i think greed will prevail.Btw people you dont have to wait until November 2, I voted 2 weeks ago. Go online and request a mail in ballot.

[StoneMeadow]

Im skeptical that its going to pass...
As am I, although it appears to me to be more of a case of the fear campaign being waged by the Attorney General and cops than growers not wanting it. In many cases, the reactions to Prop 19 remind me of the "Yes on 8" campaign that overturned same-sex marriages. The sheeple will vote their fears if you push the right buttons... :wtf:

Moreover, if Prop 19 doesn't pass it will set back marijuana legalization by a decade or more. :(

Mailed in my yes vote last week, but getting my 215 card just the same.

[boaz]

As am I, although it appears to me to be more of a case of the fear campaign being waged by the Attorney General and cops than growers not wanting it. In many cases, the reactions to Prop 19 remind me of the "Yes on 8" campaign that overturned same-sex marriages. The sheeple will vote their fears if you push the right buttons... :wtf:

Moreover, if Prop 19 doesn't pass it will set back marijuana legalization by a decade or more. :(

Mailed in my yes vote last week, but getting my 215 card just the same.

I don't live out there right now so I'm kinda curious how the media battle is going out there for this. I gotta believe the prohibs have a few more aces up there sleaves they will pull out this week. :eek: good luck.

see my thread called 19 for latest intrade stats, its still holding steady there and actually trending up. :)

[mikeyman]

I don't live out there right now so I'm kinda curious how the media battle is going out there for this. I gotta believe the prohibs have a few more aces up there sleaves they will pull out this week. :eek: good luck.

see my thread called 19 for latest intrade stats, its still holding steady there and actually trending up. :)
how the media battle??/wel ill tell you i never heard so much bullshit in my life..
The biggest cash crop in the nation and they are against it.They act like this is gunna stop everyone from smokin pot.There has been enough pot around here for 40 years.What planet do these idiots live on?They don't even want the tax money they would rather have the black market..unbelivable

[StoneMeadow]

see my thread called 19 for latest intrade stats, its still holding steady there and actually trending up. :)

I'm not sure what I'm looking at there. What is it and what does it mean? TIA... :)

[boaz]

^ no problem. intrade.com sells "shares" on whether an event will happen or not. If it does it pays $100/share. If it doesn't happen it pays zero. Then it trades daily. I don't know much more than that but I would bet :jointsmile: that if people have actual cash riding on it they follow it pretty closely . .

I use their charts as kind of an indicator but I'm not sure if it really means much or not to be honest. :jointsmile: there was a huge spike in the price on April 20th of this year. :stoned:

[Chronic Future]

thats just bullshit negitive spin being put out by the powers that be and the media there trying to give the no votes a bump ,the news people like to do stories about pot grows getting busted if 19 passes there going to see a ratings drop imo. no worries

[greenghost]

vote yes on nov 2nd please so we can go forward with the legalization of marijuana. people want it and people need it so that should be enough to move forward. lets do it for our country and for the human species.

Marijuana Legalization = Big savings for the Law (http://cannabiszone.com/marijuana-legalization-big-savings-for-the-law/)

[WillyNilly]

Here's another poll:

Proposition 19, the initiative to legalize, regulate, and tax marijuana in California, is still holding on to a very narrow lead according to a new SurveyUSA poll.

SurveyUSA (10/15-10/18)
California voters may also vote on several propositions. On Proposition 19, which would change California law to legalize marijuana and allow it to be regulated and taxed, are you â?¦ Certain to vote yes? Certain to vote no? Or not certain? {Not Certain voters were asked: At this hour, on Proposition 19, do you â?¦ lean toward yes? lean toward no, or do you not lean?}
Certain Yes 48
Certain No 44
Not Certain 8

A SurveyUSA poll from early this month found Prop 19 winning 48 percent â??yes,â?� -41 percent â??no.â?� As expected with most ballot measures, it appears the undecided are breaking toward â??no,â?� although the change is within the margin of error.

Importantly, the number of likely voters who plan to vote for Prop 19 seems to be holding remarkably steady. Almost every poll has found the percentage of voters planning to vote for the initiative hovering right around 50 percent.

Given the remarkable lack of movement in the polls, the incredibly high voter awareness of the ballot measure and the tendency for undecideds to break against an initiative, itâ??s passage or failure is going to come down to turnout. The young people who overwhelming support Prop 19 donâ??t tend to turnout in midterm elections, but if they do, they could put the initiative over the top. Either way, it will likely be an extremely close vote.

CA Marijuana Initiative Prop 19 Still Leading, 48-44 | Elections (http://elections.firedoglake.com/2010/10/20/ca-marijuana-initiative-prop-19-still-leading-48-44/)

Get your friends out there! Don't sit at home.

[Chronic Future]

thats funny you would think prop 19 is only thing on the ballot lol

[boaz]

thats funny you would think prop 19 is only thing on the ballot lol

:D you mean there are other stuff on the ballot this year, too??? :jointsmile:

[brynpav]

:D you mean there are other stuff on the ballot this year, too??? :jointsmile:

maybe with 19 passing Illinois will get it's head out of it's ass. Could you guys please pass this less then perfect law so at least we can get the ball rolling?

What's with Oakland, CA? It's like a mini Amsterdam

to the future

[WillyNilly]

thats funny you would think prop 19 is only thing on the ballot lolOf course not. It's just the main topic on this board. I vote in every election and on all the props.

19, 21, 24, 25 yes. All others, no.

[StoneMeadow]

Here's a good synopsis of the state of the polling and money...from 7pm tonight.

Campaigns for marijuana measure, Prop. 19, heating up (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=75279)

[boaz]

^ Interesting. think I'm gonna buy my next suit from the Men's Warehouse. :D not sure why Zimmerman is a supporter but pretty cool of him, I thought.

my complaint about this article is this.

"Both sides in the fight over the Nov. 2 ballot measure to legalize recreational pot use in California are turning up the heat this week, and it will likely get hotter as the final reel plays out in the final days of the campaigns."

I've said this before on here but I think the supporters really need to squash this notion that Prop 19 will "legalize recreational pot use in California". thats just bullshit. it legalizes a 25 sf garden space for adults. how they use it, medically or whatever, is their business. Prop 19 kills this crazy notion that you need a doctors rec and permission from the state to grow a small personal garden for your own personal use. nothing else.

but, I guess you can't expect the old media to really give a fuck what they say as long they sell some papers. :twocents:

[boaz]

oh yeah, and here is the part I liked. :)

"Also Friday, new polls came out to proclaim momentum on both sides.

Opponents of Prop. 19 touted a survey by the Los Angeles Times and University of Southern California showing just 39 percent support for the measure and 51 percent of voters saying they will vote against it.

Supporters of Prop. 19 coughed up their own poll showing voters backing their side 56 percent to 41 percent when respondents are allowed to give automated answers rather than live ones. Both studies leave undecided voters in the middle who have yet to lean."

that sounds like a significant effect. this, and the fact that WillyNilly mentioned that they didn't call cell phones, which would include all young voters, I would say its on the ropes but far from down for the count. :D

[SSCash]

Most of these "poll numbers" are taken from areas where the oppositions are unbalanced, so when one newspaper, magazines, website, etc. releases one show of results in votes, you are bound to find something drastically different from another group. We will know the real answer come Nov 2nd. :rastabanna:

[StoneMeadow]

oh yeah, and here is the part I liked. :)

"Supporters of Prop. 19 coughed up their own poll showing voters backing their side 56 percent to 41 percent when respondents are allowed to give automated answers rather than live ones. Both studies leave undecided voters in the middle who have yet to lean."

that sounds like a significant effect. this, and the fact that WillyNilly mentioned that they didn't call cell phones, which would include all young voters, I would say its on the ropes but far from down for the count. :D

Yes, this whole question of who they are calling, and how (live answer or automated...) raises important questions about how reliable polling is on controversial questions. Asking someone how they are going to vote on an issue like legalizing mj is NOT like asking who they will vote for for the State Assembly. There is no threat of getting on a Big Brother watch list you if you vote for a non-mainstream candidate for the Assembly. OTOH, people have well-grounded fears of the Gov't if they start voting for something as vehemently opposed by the Gov't as mj is.

I don't mean to ramp up anyone's paranoia, because I honestly don't subscribe to conspiracy theories, but by the same token I understand that folks might hesitate to answer such questions honestly.

In any case, we will know who is correct come next Tuesday night. And in the meantime, if you are a registered voter, PLEASE drag your sorry carcase out of bed and go vote YES on 19! :thumbsup:

All it will take is for good people to not vote for this measure to fail... :(

[thunderson5]

i believe it is because they used a live poll instead of an automated one.most people are kind of scared to say they support it to just anyone that calls up.i have alot of faith that it will still pass.although i do not live in calif.i used to and really love the state but had to find a cheaper place to live but really miss it and am considering moving back if it passes:D

[VapedG13]

well if it doesn't pass we can thank the asshole growers.If it doesn't pass we all should grow our own.:cool:


Thats the most stupid statement I have heard yet:D Blaming the Growers:wtf:

Your not growing your own???....man you need to get some clones or some seeds.

If your living in California and you dont grow your own....your just _ _ _ _ _ _ _:D

[StoneMeadow]

i believe it is because they used a live poll instead of an automated one.most people are kind of scared to say they support it to just anyone that calls up.i have alot of faith that it will still pass.although i do not live in calif.i used to and really love the state but had to find a cheaper place to live but really miss it and am considering moving back if it passes:D

Get ready to move back home, because some of the smartest money in statistics and polling think Prop 19 is going to pass.

Pot Legalization Prop 19 Polls Are All Over The Map -- Why? The Broadus Effect (http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2010/07/pot_legalization_prop_19_polls.php)

Gettin' ready to partay! :D

[mikeyman]

Thats the most stupid statement I have heard yet:D Blaming the Growers:wtf:

Your not growing your own???....man you need to get some clones or some seeds.

If your living in California and you dont grow your own....your just _ _ _ _ _ _ _:D

ok i'm sorry for that comment:cool: i really hope this passes and we need support from everyone.This will open up a whole new industry and it will go nationwide in not to long of time.It will be good for the growers ..more business and customers for them and the stores:thumbsup:

[boaz]

i believe it is because they used a live poll instead of an automated one.most people are kind of scared to say they support it to just anyone that calls up.i have alot of faith that it will still pass.although i do not live in calif.i used to and really love the state but had to find a cheaper place to live but really miss it and am considering moving back if it passes:D

yeah, me too. I don't live there now but I was born in Cal and live a good part of my life there and would love to retire back there someday. It sure would be nice to be able to grow without having to renew my med card, but either way its okay I guess. I want to see a full on end to cannabis cultivation prohibition and the need to have permission from the state to grow, but short of that, med use is still nice to have. :greenthumb:

[StoneMeadow]

More good news came out today. The Washington Post is reporting in this Saturday, 23 October article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/22/AR2010102206959.html) that analysis of early voting patterns in California shows that Democrats are voting in stronger-than-expected numbers. And since 60% plus of Democrats support Prop 19, compared to 70% plus of Republicans opposing it, that is indeed good news.

Keep the faith...and get out there and vote! :D

[SSCash]

My only worry would be that all registered voters that could help this go into affect are going to be stoners, that are going to be too lazy or baked to get out there and vote.

[Dippers]

well if it doesn't pass we can thank the asshole growers.If it doesn't pass we all should grow our own.:cool:

Yeah this. Too much money to be made to let it pass for some people.

[WillyNilly]

Yeah this. Too much money to be made to let it pass for some people.That's why they have to make things up and distort what the prop does.

[mikeyman]

man i don't think i ever heard so many lies in a campain.I hope you guys don't vote for Cooley.We don't want him as Attorney General,raiding all the shops.That guy is bad for maryjane:mad:

[budlover13]

well if it doesn't pass we can thank the asshole growers.If it doesn't pass we all should grow our own.:cool:

You should grow your own now.:D

[middieman440]

why would you say the stoners are to lazy to vote,not everyone who smokes is a lazy stoner bum,people that are like this are usually kids....stop spreading stigma of people smoke pot!

[WillyNilly]

why would you say the stoners are to lazy to vote,not everyone who smokes is a lazy stoner bum,people that are like this are usually kids....stop spreading stigma of people smoke pot!Good point. I got an honors degree, worked part-time, played in a band, and won some scholarship money for my writing, all while smoking almost daily.

I'm older and a less frequent smoker now, but I sure didn't get all that done by being lazy. That's a stereotype promoted by media, not a real fact. Sure, there are lazy stoners out there. I think that they'd be lazy whether they smoked or not.

[grow4fun]

The reason for the decline in support is that people are starting to figure out how Prop 19 may work against their own best interests. Marijuana has already just been decriminalized in California (no charges, court or record). You can wag your bag in front of a cop now, and there's not jack they can do about it. Except maybe write you a ticket.

So now Prop 19 is just about economics. A lot of people feel that economically they'd have more options without it. Or aren't ready to permanently close off those options just yet.

A good website that explains all this stuff is Marijuana Users Against Proposition 19 (http://no-on19.com). It's made by stoners, not the religious-right.

People are also realizing that an initiative is FOREVER. So it's not just like "well, i'll vote for this flawed one now, 'as a first step' until something better comes along". An initiative can never be changed --- ever. Except by another initiative; until someone raises huge money & a campaign for a new initiative.

That's why Dennis Peron, who wrote Proposition 215, is telling people not to vote for it. He's probably the most experienced person out there on initiatives, and cannabis -- and he hates it. Makes ya wonder....

Also voting for Prop 19 would block the way for good initiatives that are brewing right now. That accomplish the desired goals:

1) making marijuana legal, while at the same time

2) keeping hundreds of thousands of Californians fully or partially self-employed, and

3) keeping the money in the state (we're talking about $15 Billion dollars annually pumped into our state).

4) keeping big corporations out of an industry that should remain people-based.

As soon as an initiative is out that does those 4 things, SIGN IT, then VOTE FOR IT.

just my 2c

[middieman440]

19 Reasons for Every Californian to Vote Yes on Prop 19
October 25th, 2010 By: Russ Belville, NORML Outreach Coordinator
Share this Article


Californiaâ??s Prop 19 will be the most talked-about ballot initiative in the November election. This measure would make lawful the possession and sharing of one ounce of marijuana outside the home and allow for personal cultivation of a small marijuana garden and possession of its harvest in the home. California cities and counties would be able to opt-in to commercial sales, regulation, and taxation of marijuana. Existing prohibitions against driving under the influence and working under the influence would be maintained and prohibitions against furnishing marijuana to minors would be strengthened.

After almost 100 years of marijuana prohibition in California, marijuana is more popular and accepted than ever. Prohibition has clearly failed. Prop 19 gives us another choice, one that benefits not just those who enjoy the herb, but the entire state of California and ultimately, the nation and the world. Whether you are a regular marijuana user now, an occasional toker back in the day, or youâ??ve never touched the stuff, there are many compelling economic, social, public safety, and civil libertarian reasons to support its legalization. Here are nineteen reasons for six distinct groups of Californians to vote Yes on Prop 19.

For the Concerned Parents
1. To make pot more difficult for kids to buy. It might seem counter-intuitive to some, but illegal marijuana is much easier to acquire than regulated marijuana because weed dealers donâ??t check IDâ??s. Four out of five high school seniors, more than three in five sophomores, and two in five middle schoolers (8th grade) say marijuana is â??fairly easyâ?� or â??very easyâ?� to get. One third of 16-17-year-olds say marijuana is easiest to buy, not cigarettes, alcohol, or prescription drugs. Two out of five teens say they can get marijuana in a day; almost one in four can get marijuana in an hour. Obviously letting unregulated dealers control the marijuana market is not protecting your kids from access to marijuana. On the other hand, aggressive enforcement of ID carding for minors, combined with public education have led to some of the lowest rates of teen alcohol and tobacco use ever recorded. Prop 19 enacts the same common sense ID carding for marijuana as we use for martinis and Marlboros.

2. To make pot more difficult for kids to sell in school. Regardless of what regulations we put on marijuana, like alcohol and tobacco, there will be some kids who manage to get a hold of it. But part of what makes marijuana so easy for teens to buy is that they can all find in their high school one of the one million teens nationally who are dealing it. Legal access to marijuana for adults removes the criminal risk markup that makes pot so profitable. After all, when was the last time you heard of a beer dealer in a high school hallway? Prop 19 eliminates the huge profit that entices youngsters to sell marijuana.

3. To make pot less available for transfer from young adults. Governor Schwarzenegger signed a decriminalization bill that makes it an infraction, not a crime, to possess and share of up to one ounce of marijuana between anyone 18 and older. Prop 19 adds a stiff punishment of up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine for any adult aged 21 or older who shares marijuana with anyone aged 18-20, just like we punish adults who furnish alcohol to those under legal age. When itâ??s tougher for those 18-20 to get marijuana, itâ??s tougher for them to share it friends under 18. Prop 19 treats marijuana like alcohol as a privilege for age 21 and older.

For the â??Law and Orderâ?� Crowd
4. To decrease the profits of violent criminals. Prohibited marijuana brings with it the same problems as prohibited alcohol did â?? gangs and violence. We donâ??t see bootleggers shooting up the streets over whiskey distribution any more. We donâ??t see clandestine wine grape vineyards sprouting up in national forests. Providing Californiaâ??s adults a legal way to grow or buy their own marijuana means violent drug gangs lose customers. No, these gangsters wonâ??t stop being gangsters, but they will become gangsters with lower budgets and fewer associates. Prop 19 brings the dangerous underground marijuana market into a safe, regulated, inspected, and taxed legal market.

5. To increase public trust of law enforcement. Currently more than 1 in 10 adult Californians smoke pot every year. It is unknown how many of these 2.9 million annual users fail to report crimes for fear of police interviewing them and discovering the marijuana they possess or grow. Prohibition also creates fear and paranoia that lingers long after the joint is smoked for these adults whenever they see police, fear that even talking to police could end in a ticket or arrest. Prop 19 allows otherwise law-abiding cannabis consumers to trust and help law enforcement.

6. To prioritize our law enforcement. It is estimated that including the arrest, jail, prison, court, and marijuana eradication costs, California spends $200 million per year on marijuana law enforcement. Then there is the time and space we canâ??t afford in our overworked court system and overcrowded prisons. Prop 19 alleviates much of those problems while maintaining the current laws against irresponsible use of marijuana, such as driving under the influence and giving marijuana to kids. Prop 19 focuses police priorities away from adults who enjoy marijuana responsibly and onto real crime.

For the Medical Marijuana Patients
7. To protect your medical collectives. Over the fourteen years of medical marijuana in California weâ??ve seen numerous raids on medical marijuana collectives, or â??dispensariesâ?�. Many are conducted by state or local authorities, some by DEA but always with the cooperation and assistance of local law enforcement. Prop 19 forbids state and local law enforcement from seizing, attempting to seize, or even threatening to seize lawfully cultivated marijuana â?? medical or personal. Prop 19 makes it impossible for local law enforcement to assist federal prosecution of medical marijuana collectives.

8. To provide easier access to cheaper medicine. Currently a patient has to see a doctor and pay for a recommendation to use medical marijuana. The patient has to carry around that recommendation to prove medical use to the police. The patient can designate a caregiver to grow for them or buy from a dispensary at grossly inflated prices. After Prop 19, you can use marijuana simply because you decide to, no doctors, no notes. Any number of your friends could be growing marijuana for you. There may even be Prop 19 stores that open in your city. Prop 19 will lower marijuana prices and provide greater access to patients without need for permission slips.

9. To allow you to grow a lot of marijuana. For adults who decide not to get Prop 215 recommendations, you will be allowed under Prop 19 to cultivate a plot of marijuana not exceeding 25 square feet. The DEA has concluded that the average yield of cannabis bud per square foot is about one-half ounce â?? thatâ??s over three quarters of a pound from a 5â??x5â?? garden. Prop 19 allows you to keep the results of your harvests; the one ounce limitation only applies to taking your marijuana out of your residence. Prop 19 does not impose arbitrary plant and possession limits at your home grow site.

For the Business Community
10. To create much-needed jobs. Californiaâ??s marijuana market is already the largest cash crop in the state at an estimated $14 billion annually. This estimate only includes the marijuana itself and not all the ancillary industries a legal pot market would bring, from accessories to fashion, from tourism to retail, and all the incredible markets for marijuanaâ??s non-drug cousin, industrial hemp. Prop 19 creates new job and business opportunities and opens the door for industrial use of hemp.

11. To bring in much-needed tax revenue. Itâ??s true that Prop 19 allows localities to opt-in and regulate commercial cannabis sales and some places may not opt-in, reaping no marijuana taxes. But marijuana for personal use will still be legal and many of the ancillary industries could flourish in a â??dry countyâ?� (e.g., marijuana bedâ??nâ??breakfast) and that would produce tax revenue. Prop 19 brings in more tax revenue from marijuana than weâ??re bringing in now.

12. To bring fairness to workplace drug testing. Prop 19 maintains an employerâ??s existing right to address marijuana impairment in the workplace â?? nobody gets to go to work stoned any more than they get to go to work drunk. But Prop 19 frees employers from the burden of disciplining, firing, or not hiring safe, productive workers for their personal use of marijuana away from the job site. Prop 19 treats employees who use cannabis responsibly in their private life like those employees who drink alcohol.

For the Latinos and African-Americans
13. To end the disproportionate arrest and harassment of people of color. African-Americans in Californiaâ??s 25 largest counties are arrested at rates two-to-four times greater than their white counterparts, despite whites using marijuana at greater rates. In the 25 largest cities, the arrest disparity ranges from twice-to-thirteen times the rates for whites. Arrest rates for Latinos also exceed the rates for whites. Prop 19 removes the probable cause for law enforcement to harass people of color for merely possessing marijuana.

14. To end street-level dealing of marijuana. Marijuanaâ??s profitability and scarcity create the open-air street-corner dealing that plagues many communities of color and utilizes juveniles to perform the transporting and selling of small amounts of pot. The profit enriches gangs and leads to violent confrontations over turf. Prop 19 will reduce the cost of marijuana and provide a regulated place to buy it that will undercut the street dealers.

15. To strike back at the murderous drug gangs in Mexico. Many Latino Californians worry for the safety of friends and family back in Mexico. Residents in northern border towns face violence and murder rates usually only found in war zones. Law abiding Mexicans donâ??t know if their law enforcement and government officials are corrupted by the wealthy gangs. Prop 19 is the first step in nationwide legalization that can be the only solution to Mexicoâ??s drug war violence.

For the People of All Political Ideologies
16. To energize and connect with the progressive Democratic base. Prop 19 is overwhelmingly supported by the young, progressive, liberal voters that are the base of support for Democratic politicians. Many of these voters are not as enthusiastic about the Democrats as they were in 2008 when they turned out in record numbers. Prop 19â??s passage forces the Democratic Party to recognize the get-out-the-vote potential of the marijuana legalization issue for future elections.

17. To build a new, younger Republican base on conservative principles. The Republican Party faces a decline in its numbers due to the aging of its core base of white male supporters. Younger, libertarian-leaning, â??Tea Partyâ?� activists are calling for a return to conservative principles of statesâ?? rights, less government, personal responsibility, and cutting wasteful government spending. Prop 19 affirms the right of states to set their own policies and begins to dismantle the most ineffective government program of all time â?? the War on Drugs.

18. To show the traditional political parties they arenâ??t responding to the people. Candidates for the highest offices in California from both major political parties refuse to endorse marijuana legalization even though more than half the citizens have used marijuana and support its legalization. Prop 19 reminds the major parties that they are the servants of the people and the peopleâ??s will is sovereign.

For the Future
19. To change the world. Prop 19 is not just another California initiative. Prop 19 is being watched in all fifty states and throughout the hemisphere as the â??shot heard round the worldâ?� in ending the prohibition of marijuana.

Itâ??s up to you, California, to take that one small step for your state that will be one giant leap for the nation. Vote Yes on Prop 19!

Tags: California, Prop. 19

[SSCash]

why would you say the stoners are to lazy to vote,not everyone who smokes is a lazy stoner bum,people that are like this are usually kids....stop spreading stigma of people smoke pot!

I guess I've seen too many stereotypes proved right, example; you are obviously too lazy to even type properly.

[nmesub]

19 Reasons for Every Californian to Vote Yes on Prop 19
October 25th, 2010 By: Russ Belville, NORML Outreach Coordinator
Share this Article


Californiaâ??s Prop 19 will be the most talked-about ballot initiative in the November election. This measure would make lawful the possession and sharing of one ounce of marijuana outside the home and allow for personal cultivation of a small marijuana garden and possession of its harvest in the home. California cities and counties would be able to opt-in to commercial sales, regulation, and taxation of marijuana. Existing prohibitions against driving under the influence and working under the influence would be maintained and prohibitions against furnishing marijuana to minors would be strengthened.

After almost 100 years of marijuana prohibition in California, marijuana is more popular and accepted than ever. Prohibition has clearly failed. Prop 19 gives us another choice, one that benefits not just those who enjoy the herb, but the entire state of California and ultimately, the nation and the world. Whether you are a regular marijuana user now, an occasional toker back in the day, or youâ??ve never touched the stuff, there are many compelling economic, social, public safety, and civil libertarian reasons to support its legalization. Here are nineteen reasons for six distinct groups of Californians to vote Yes on Prop 19.

For the Concerned Parents
1. To make pot more difficult for kids to buy. It might seem counter-intuitive to some, but illegal marijuana is much easier to acquire than regulated marijuana because weed dealers donâ??t check IDâ??s. Four out of five high school seniors, more than three in five sophomores, and two in five middle schoolers (8th grade) say marijuana is â??fairly easyâ?� or â??very easyâ?� to get. One third of 16-17-year-olds say marijuana is easiest to buy, not cigarettes, alcohol, or prescription drugs. Two out of five teens say they can get marijuana in a day; almost one in four can get marijuana in an hour. Obviously letting unregulated dealers control the marijuana market is not protecting your kids from access to marijuana. On the other hand, aggressive enforcement of ID carding for minors, combined with public education have led to some of the lowest rates of teen alcohol and tobacco use ever recorded. Prop 19 enacts the same common sense ID carding for marijuana as we use for martinis and Marlboros.

2. To make pot more difficult for kids to sell in school. Regardless of what regulations we put on marijuana, like alcohol and tobacco, there will be some kids who manage to get a hold of it. But part of what makes marijuana so easy for teens to buy is that they can all find in their high school one of the one million teens nationally who are dealing it. Legal access to marijuana for adults removes the criminal risk markup that makes pot so profitable. After all, when was the last time you heard of a beer dealer in a high school hallway? Prop 19 eliminates the huge profit that entices youngsters to sell marijuana.

3. To make pot less available for transfer from young adults. Governor Schwarzenegger signed a decriminalization bill that makes it an infraction, not a crime, to possess and share of up to one ounce of marijuana between anyone 18 and older. Prop 19 adds a stiff punishment of up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine for any adult aged 21 or older who shares marijuana with anyone aged 18-20, just like we punish adults who furnish alcohol to those under legal age. When itâ??s tougher for those 18-20 to get marijuana, itâ??s tougher for them to share it friends under 18. Prop 19 treats marijuana like alcohol as a privilege for age 21 and older.

For the â??Law and Orderâ?� Crowd
4. To decrease the profits of violent criminals. Prohibited marijuana brings with it the same problems as prohibited alcohol did â?? gangs and violence. We donâ??t see bootleggers shooting up the streets over whiskey distribution any more. We donâ??t see clandestine wine grape vineyards sprouting up in national forests. Providing Californiaâ??s adults a legal way to grow or buy their own marijuana means violent drug gangs lose customers. No, these gangsters wonâ??t stop being gangsters, but they will become gangsters with lower budgets and fewer associates. Prop 19 brings the dangerous underground marijuana market into a safe, regulated, inspected, and taxed legal market.

5. To increase public trust of law enforcement. Currently more than 1 in 10 adult Californians smoke pot every year. It is unknown how many of these 2.9 million annual users fail to report crimes for fear of police interviewing them and discovering the marijuana they possess or grow. Prohibition also creates fear and paranoia that lingers long after the joint is smoked for these adults whenever they see police, fear that even talking to police could end in a ticket or arrest. Prop 19 allows otherwise law-abiding cannabis consumers to trust and help law enforcement.

6. To prioritize our law enforcement. It is estimated that including the arrest, jail, prison, court, and marijuana eradication costs, California spends $200 million per year on marijuana law enforcement. Then there is the time and space we canâ??t afford in our overworked court system and overcrowded prisons. Prop 19 alleviates much of those problems while maintaining the current laws against irresponsible use of marijuana, such as driving under the influence and giving marijuana to kids. Prop 19 focuses police priorities away from adults who enjoy marijuana responsibly and onto real crime.

For the Medical Marijuana Patients
7. To protect your medical collectives. Over the fourteen years of medical marijuana in California weâ??ve seen numerous raids on medical marijuana collectives, or â??dispensariesâ?�. Many are conducted by state or local authorities, some by DEA but always with the cooperation and assistance of local law enforcement. Prop 19 forbids state and local law enforcement from seizing, attempting to seize, or even threatening to seize lawfully cultivated marijuana â?? medical or personal. Prop 19 makes it impossible for local law enforcement to assist federal prosecution of medical marijuana collectives.

8. To provide easier access to cheaper medicine. Currently a patient has to see a doctor and pay for a recommendation to use medical marijuana. The patient has to carry around that recommendation to prove medical use to the police. The patient can designate a caregiver to grow for them or buy from a dispensary at grossly inflated prices. After Prop 19, you can use marijuana simply because you decide to, no doctors, no notes. Any number of your friends could be growing marijuana for you. There may even be Prop 19 stores that open in your city. Prop 19 will lower marijuana prices and provide greater access to patients without need for permission slips.

9. To allow you to grow a lot of marijuana. For adults who decide not to get Prop 215 recommendations, you will be allowed under Prop 19 to cultivate a plot of marijuana not exceeding 25 square feet. The DEA has concluded that the average yield of cannabis bud per square foot is about one-half ounce â?? thatâ??s over three quarters of a pound from a 5â??x5â?? garden. Prop 19 allows you to keep the results of your harvests; the one ounce limitation only applies to taking your marijuana out of your residence. Prop 19 does not impose arbitrary plant and possession limits at your home grow site.

For the Business Community
10. To create much-needed jobs. Californiaâ??s marijuana market is already the largest cash crop in the state at an estimated $14 billion annually. This estimate only includes the marijuana itself and not all the ancillary industries a legal pot market would bring, from accessories to fashion, from tourism to retail, and all the incredible markets for marijuanaâ??s non-drug cousin, industrial hemp. Prop 19 creates new job and business opportunities and opens the door for industrial use of hemp.

11. To bring in much-needed tax revenue. Itâ??s true that Prop 19 allows localities to opt-in and regulate commercial cannabis sales and some places may not opt-in, reaping no marijuana taxes. But marijuana for personal use will still be legal and many of the ancillary industries could flourish in a â??dry countyâ?� (e.g., marijuana bedâ??nâ??breakfast) and that would produce tax revenue. Prop 19 brings in more tax revenue from marijuana than weâ??re bringing in now.

12. To bring fairness to workplace drug testing. Prop 19 maintains an employerâ??s existing right to address marijuana impairment in the workplace â?? nobody gets to go to work stoned any more than they get to go to work drunk. But Prop 19 frees employers from the burden of disciplining, firing, or not hiring safe, productive workers for their personal use of marijuana away from the job site. Prop 19 treats employees who use cannabis responsibly in their private life like those employees who drink alcohol.

For the Latinos and African-Americans
13. To end the disproportionate arrest and harassment of people of color. African-Americans in Californiaâ??s 25 largest counties are arrested at rates two-to-four times greater than their white counterparts, despite whites using marijuana at greater rates. In the 25 largest cities, the arrest disparity ranges from twice-to-thirteen times the rates for whites. Arrest rates for Latinos also exceed the rates for whites. Prop 19 removes the probable cause for law enforcement to harass people of color for merely possessing marijuana.

14. To end street-level dealing of marijuana. Marijuanaâ??s profitability and scarcity create the open-air street-corner dealing that plagues many communities of color and utilizes juveniles to perform the transporting and selling of small amounts of pot. The profit enriches gangs and leads to violent confrontations over turf. Prop 19 will reduce the cost of marijuana and provide a regulated place to buy it that will undercut the street dealers.

15. To strike back at the murderous drug gangs in Mexico. Many Latino Californians worry for the safety of friends and family back in Mexico. Residents in northern border towns face violence and murder rates usually only found in war zones. Law abiding Mexicans donâ??t know if their law enforcement and government officials are corrupted by the wealthy gangs. Prop 19 is the first step in nationwide legalization that can be the only solution to Mexicoâ??s drug war violence.

For the People of All Political Ideologies
16. To energize and connect with the progressive Democratic base. Prop 19 is overwhelmingly supported by the young, progressive, liberal voters that are the base of support for Democratic politicians. Many of these voters are not as enthusiastic about the Democrats as they were in 2008 when they turned out in record numbers. Prop 19â??s passage forces the Democratic Party to recognize the get-out-the-vote potential of the marijuana legalization issue for future elections.

17. To build a new, younger Republican base on conservative principles. The Republican Party faces a decline in its numbers due to the aging of its core base of white male supporters. Younger, libertarian-leaning, â??Tea Partyâ?� activists are calling for a return to conservative principles of statesâ?? rights, less government, personal responsibility, and cutting wasteful government spending. Prop 19 affirms the right of states to set their own policies and begins to dismantle the most ineffective government program of all time â?? the War on Drugs.

18. To show the traditional political parties they arenâ??t responding to the people. Candidates for the highest offices in California from both major political parties refuse to endorse marijuana legalization even though more than half the citizens have used marijuana and support its legalization. Prop 19 reminds the major parties that they are the servants of the people and the peopleâ??s will is sovereign.

For the Future
19. To change the world. Prop 19 is not just another California initiative. Prop 19 is being watched in all fifty states and throughout the hemisphere as the â??shot heard round the worldâ?� in ending the prohibition of marijuana.

Itâ??s up to you, California, to take that one small step for your state that will be one giant leap for the nation. Vote Yes on Prop 19!

Tags: California, Prop. 19
THIS!

[middieman440]

this...what

[StoneMeadow]

I see that George Soros is donating $1-million to help pass Prop 19. Way to go George! :D

LA Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/10/proposition-19-campaign-gets-1-million-donation-from-george-soros.html)

[middieman440]

i really dont understand what money has to do with poeple making a vote......

[boaz]

i really dont understand what money has to do with poeple making a vote......

media purchase mostly, but yeah, ask Meg if you can buy an election. :jointsmile:

[middieman440]

lol haha

[WillyNilly]

Thanks, George! :thumbsup: This will allow the yes guys to play the crap out of the commercial. I imagine you guys have seen it, but in case you haven't:
YouTube - TV Ad - Police Chief McNamara: Vote YES On Proposition 19 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_oIpIyZRu0&feature=player_embedded)

[StoneMeadow]

The bottom line is that lots more folks don't know much about what the initiative really means, and that they hesitate to tell pollsters their true intentions. Check it out here: Why the polls don't matter (http://elections.firedoglake.com/2010/10/26/propositions-measures-and-ballot-initiatives-hard-to-poll-accurately/).

Don't listen to the FUD, just go vote YES for Prop 19! :thumbsup:

[StoneMeadow]

Here's another reason to keep the faith...and to vote YES on Prop 19. :D

Will 'Reverse' Bradley Effect Stoke Pot Initiative? (http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/article/prop-19-will-broadus-effect-a-reverse-bradley-effect-stoke-california-pot-initiative/19689745)

[StoneMeadow]

Yet another article explaining why folks are leery of live pollsters: Prop 19 supporters coy with live pollsters (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/29/MN7O1G3MNR.DTL&type=politics)

Keep the faith...and vote YES on Prop 19! :D

[Theym420]

The reason for the decline in support is that people are starting to figure out how Prop 19 may work against their own best interests..... Prop 19 is just about economics. A lot of people feel that economically they'd have more options without it. Or aren't ready to permanently close off those options just yet.... People are also realizing that an initiative is FOREVER. So it's not just like "well, i'll vote for this flawed one now, 'as a first step' until something better comes along". An initiative can never be changed --- ever. Except by another initiative; until someone raises huge money & a campaign for a new initiative.... voting for Prop 19 would block the way for good initiatives that are brewing right now.

lol nice logic

[colonuggs]

The reason for the decline in support is that people are starting to figure out how Prop 19 may work against their own best interests. Marijuana has already just been decriminalized in California (no charges, court or record). You can wag your bag in front of a cop now, and there's not jack they can do about it. Except maybe write you a ticket.

So now Prop 19 is just about economics. A lot of people feel that economically they'd have more options without it. Or aren't ready to permanently close off those options just yet.

A good website that explains all this stuff is Marijuana Users Against Proposition 19 (http://no-on19.com). It's made by stoners, not the religious-right.

People are also realizing that an initiative is FOREVER. So it's not just like "well, i'll vote for this flawed one now, 'as a first step' until something better comes along". An initiative can never be changed --- ever. Except by another initiative; until someone raises huge money & a campaign for a new initiative.

That's why Dennis Peron, who wrote Proposition 215, is telling people not to vote for it. He's probably the most experienced person out there on initiatives, and cannabis -- and he hates it. Makes ya wonder....

Also voting for Prop 19 would block the way for good initiatives that are brewing right now. That accomplish the desired goals:

1) making marijuana legal, while at the same time

2) keeping hundreds of thousands of Californians fully or partially self-employed, and

3) keeping the money in the state (we're talking about $15 Billion dollars annually pumped into our state).

4) keeping big corporations out of an industry that should remain people-based.

As soon as an initiative is out that does those 4 things, SIGN IT, then VOTE FOR IT.

just my 2c

Thats one of the better/more realistic views :thumbsup:


Decriminalization = Power to the people, use, grow, sell, trade, barter, in a free, unrestricted and no tax market



Legalization = Govt. and big business control, the public no longer has a voice in price, use, and dominion.......this is what 19 will accomplish

[StoneMeadow]

Thats one of the better/more realistic views :thumbsup:Actually, it's more like one of the most ignorant and short-sighted views I've seen here. Let's consider just the jobs and revenue impact for California.

There are about 230,000 mmj card holders in California, so that is the sum total of the legal medijuana market. If that market suddenly expands to all of the 20 million adult Californians, do you think the market will get bigger or smaller? Hint: 20 million is 87 times larger than 230,000. Yeah, I understand that it's a really tough question, but think about it and get back to us. ;)

On that same vein, if the present value is $15 billion and the market suddenly gets 87 time larger, what do you think will happen to that $15 billion figure? Will it get bigger or smaller? Not asking for precise numbers, just a common sense guess.


Decriminalization = Power to the people, use, grow, sell, trade, barter, in a free, unrestricted and no tax market

So, what you're saying is that you're totally cool with the State continuing to mar people for the rest of their lives with a "citation" for a plant that grows in their back yard? They can never get a job in transportation, in education, for the gov't, in healthcare or a host of other occupations, but you're totally cool with that because doing so protects a small cadre of NorCal hippies who want to protect their illegal lifestyle? That sounds real neighbor-like. :wtf:

I mean, think about it this way. What if Prohibition had continued to this day, and the only way to drink alcohol was to buy it from some shady moonshiner. And if you got caught with more than an ounce you could never get a decent job in any of the occupations I list above. Well, that's exactly what you're advocating here.


Legalization = Govt. and big business control, the public no longer has a voice in price, use, and dominion.......this is what 19 will accomplishLegalization means I can grow my own, just like I can brew my own beer, grow my own tomatoes and build my own hot rod. Sure, it also means corporations will have some of the action, maybe eventually most of it. I'm actually cool with that because most of the time I buy my beer from a commercial brewery (a corporation), my tomatoes at Winco (another corporation) and I drive a Ford (yet another corporation).

Have you ever driven down US Highway 99 south from Sacramento? There are thousands upon thousands of square miles of grape vines down there. Nearly all of it goes into cheap box and jug wines. By your reckoning that must mean those cheap box wines are putting all the boutique wineries in Napa and Sonoma out of business, right? After all, the box wine companies are huge corporations and the little guys don't stand a chance against them. Right? :mad:

What...the high-class wineries are NOT going out of business? How can that be? :stoned:

You ever drink those box wines? They taste like the equivalent of Mexican ditch weed. Ever try that shit? It's all full of seeds and stems and dirt. No care has been expended in its culture, curing or preparation, and it'll barely get you high.

Well, corporate weed is going to be the marijuana equivalent of cheap box wine. Careful NorCal growers lovingly tend each plant to maximize the quality and quantity of primo bud, like careful and skilled vintners in Napa grow and prepare their premium wines. And they will always get a premium price for it for the same reasons skilled vintners get 10 times the price per liter as do the large corporate wineries...quality.

So your arguments just don't make sense. Wake up and vote YES on Prop 19, and enjoy being part of something wonderful. :thumbsup:

[WillyNilly]

Exactly! Well said.

I imagine that when prohibition was repealed, a lot of gangsters and moonshiners were pretty pissed off that they had to go get real jobs. The rotgut garbage they made was the only game in town, and when it became legal, they couldn't compete with the quality stuff that was again available.

[leadmagnet]

That was a very good post stonemeadow. I would also like to take issue with "grow4fun's" ignorant comment that one can wag their stash in front of a cop and "there's not jack they can do about it". That police officer will write you a hundred dollar ticket genius. And guess what happens when you don't pay that ticket??? Yep, FTP (failure to pay) warrant and/or summons will be issued against you. Now granted, most law enforcement won't bother to execute the warrant and/or summons under normal circumstances but there will be costly consequences for not paying that hundred dollar fine particularly as late fees and penalties accrue.

So, absent prop 19 you just go ahead and wave your bag of weed at a cop "grow4fun", cough, cough. Money to burn babe?