The politics of the word "socialism"

[GoldenBoy812]

Being the capitalist pig that I am, it irks me to no end when i hear right wing talk radio (the only thing i listen to while stuck in inbound traffic) call Obama a "marxist, leninist, communist socialist!"

Marxism, as wonderful as it may look on paper, is (IMHO) several generations away from ever becoming feasible, much less desirable. Such a notion requires a strict form of democratization among the populace. In an era where political machines (both the GOP and the Dem's) plague the airwaves, TV, and the internet spewing a bunch of non-issue "takes" on their particular opposition, our democracy operates on a minimally functioning level.

Last time i checked, President Obama is a trained lawyer; not a journeyman iron worker. The senate and house are filled with multi-millionaires. The businesses/wealth entities that donate to candidates are not worker owned enterprises. In fact, several fortune 500 boards have multi-dutied members, meaning these people sit on more than one board of directors (Bill Gates, for example, is a board member of Berkshire Hathaway).

High tax, high spend nations are a product of Fascism, where both utopias of marxism and laissez faire are employed to maintain control over the voting public.

I hate to break it to you righties, but regulating health care so that firms can use tax payer dollars to subsidize health insurance and then claiming it to be an "increased cost of business" is amazingly full of shit. Unless of course, you do not view the short term budget deficit to be that much of a horror story (not crowding out private investment), which is my position. If i hear another partisan hack spew, "the cost of Obamacare is going to bankrupt this country", i just might lose it :jointsmile:

Laissez faire on the other hand is the utopia used by the GOP. It has never existed, nor was it desired during any republican administration in history. Under the Reagan administration, government spending nearly doubled (see military Keynesianism).

Trend (http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=US%20Government%20Spending%20A s%20Percent%20Of%20GDP&year=1980_2000&sname=US&units=p&bar=0&stack=1&size=l&col=c&spending0=21.20_21.69_22.92_22.87_21.67_22.44_22.2 1_21.20_20.87_20.86_21.60_22.10_21.78_21.14_20.63_ 20.44_19.91_19.22_18.79_18.20_17.98&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a)


Trend (http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=1980_2010&view=1&expand=&units=p&fy=fy11&chart=F0-total&bar=0&stack=1&size=l&title=US%20Government%20Spending%20As%20Percent%20 Of%20GDP&state=US&color=c&local=s)

When you want to criticize the opposing ideology, please try and be a bit more fucking creative; this shit slinging has been going on for over 100 years and has made not one bit of difference.

Dem's increase taxes on the working class, and repub's spend like the money is on fire.

socialist, communist,... leninist:wtf: .... come on

[bigsby]

Thanks for a voice of reason. I see the right wingnuts again chose not to respond. It's much easier to forgo serious discussion than debate the issues in any depth. Their arguments only work if you keep them as simple as possible.

I would add to you commentary that some things should be under tight governmental control / regulation. Take the military or air traffic control for example. These are essentially "socialist" forms of administration. And I doubt many would like to see the core of these services outsourced. These are essential services. There are plenty of other examples. Health care fits into this category but thanks to Nixon we went down a different path.

If people in the US got a dose of socialized medicine they would never look back. And don't give us that tired out dribble about rationed health care services and death panels. We already have that in the US. Under our system 50 million people get no health care so that insurance companies can turn a healthy profit while providing the rest of us with substandard coverage. Insurance companies regularly cut off advanced care when the costs threaten their profit margins. Further, we socialize the losses when any one of those 50 million uninsured show up at the hospital for emergency care of what would normally be serviced by routine medical care. And of course those at the top get whatever they want (not necessarily need). That is a form of rationing complete with death panels designed to privatize the profits and socialize the losses.

It is all about scaring people and appealing to the lowest common denominator. These tactics work for the base right wingnuts and the un- and under educated. Some understand that it is just a tactic. Most of really believe it.

Truly pathetic isn't it?

[cannabis=freedom]

The idea that the corporate owners of America would ever, EVER let a socialist be president is itself laughable. He largely won the election because the finance institutions favoured him significantly over McCain...not bad for a card-carrying Trotskyite, eh?