help a girl out!!! lots of pics.

[sharlson]

thanks for looking everyone. well, heres the facts: plants are about 4 weeks old in sunshine mix #4 amended with perlite and lime. nute are jacks classic and dyna-gro on alternating schedule. a water, feed, water schedule. also low doses of calmag and molasses, alternating each with feedings. ph in is 6.0-6.3, with suggested amounts of each nutes.
the first two pictures were taken when the symptoms first showed up. i watered with jacks and within 48 hours the leaves did that. i poured phd water through and the ec was 3.0 so i flushed em out. down to about 400 or so and ph 6.3.
its two weeks later now and theyve been fed at increasing nute strenghts with water in between and its showing up again. thats the next series of pics. you can see the progression.
looks like potassium deficiency sort of, but i cant figure out why. if it was due to lock out, shouldnt i have fixed that?
oh, temps in veg room are in between 72-80 with 40-55 rh.
i appreciate any help. really!
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[Hempsouth]

Looks slightly over watered during seedling stage and maybe compacted wet soil not letting enough oxygen get to the roots.

[sharlson]

hey thanks for your response. i amended the sushine with lots of perlite and have been trying to be really good at waiting til the pots dry. i took that picture after waterin though.

[sharlson]

anyone else. pretty please?

[Dutch Pimp]

that plant is in trouble...it may be too late? I would transplant to fresh soil and stop the nutes & pray

:)...Text (http://cannabis.com/growing/nutrient-plant_abuse_chart_and_photos_pictures.html)

[sharlson]

dutch pimp- yeah its in trouble. really too late? you thinking its locked out and thats why fresh soil?

[Dutch Pimp]

dutch pimp- yeah its in trouble. really too late? you thinking its locked out and thats why fresh soil?

yeah...overdose or lockout?...hard to say. A transplant is safest, hope. Check the root pattern/condition...you may be rootbound?

[sharlson]

yeah, the thing is i flushed em, let em dry out, cut of messed up leaves and started up half strength. the leaf thing just came back on the developing leaves (second set) after about a week and a half. they dont seem root bound really but maybe i should pot up with fresh soil. thanks.

[polishpollack]

Flushing and getting your pH to 6.3 apparently fixed this problem once, so chances are good it'll help again. But why are you alternating ferts? Stick with the dynagro but don't use it so much. In soil it's hard to tell exactly how much fert to give if you're using something like dyangro as it's a liquid and you can be tempted to just pour it in no matter what the plants are like. That's why I advocate using powder fert that have bacteria and fungi in them, because all you do then is water when the soil is dry. You don't have to guess as guessing means you assume the plants need more but we are usually wrong when we assume. I'd flush the plants and if you want to continue using a liquid fert, transplant into bigger pots with more soil, and I mean pots that are like 5 gallon buckets or maybe a little bigger. Sad thing is these may not recover as it looks like what we call "fert burn," too much fertilizer over time. Using a powder fert will prevent you from having to watch your pH too. It's a better solution. One half cup of fert per gallon of potting soil. By the way, what is molasses going to do?

[sharlson]

hey polishpollack- thanks for your reply. im alternating ferts because the jacks isnt high on micronutes (but a really good fert) and the dyna grow is complete. jacks is powdered, dyna is not. with the liquid dyna been reading around at what other people do and just trying to start low and increase as they grow. yeah, i will transplant into bigger pots.
molasses is to feed benes and for cal,mag, sulphur. thanks for your reply and suggestions

[Rusty Trichome]

Molasses is a replacement for CalMag and SuperThrive. (Grandma's or Brer Rabbit are common in growrooms nationwide) It provides calcium, magnesium, iron, carbon, carbs and some micronutrients. Acts like a 'nutrient assistant' supposedly adding to the effeciency of most nutrients.

It's a very bad idea to switch between ferts. Jacks (the old Peters line) isn't the best fert to begin with, or you wouldn't need to switch back-n-forth. It's by no means the worst, but it is similar to Miracle Grow All Puropse, which I use when temporarily out of my Fox Farms line.

With Dynagrow Growth formula, it says on their website that the components will hold water longer, but both will add to salt build-up in the soil. Regular monthly flushes with properly ph'd water helps to release the salts and prevent salt build-up common with inorganic nutrients. I flush on the first of every month. (easy to remember)

I'd pick a nutrient and stick with it, flush with plain properly ph'd water, and start with the molasses at 1 tsp per gallon, once a week. And for goodness sake, follow the directions. Most directions give a weekly feeding schedule, but some are for a 10 day to 2 week period. This means plain, properly ph'd water between feedings, when necessary.

In the summer I don't usually add perlite, and if I do it's not much. In the summer you'll want a little bit of moisture retention. In the winter, I add up to 20% perlite, depending on the soil used...because the soil will hold moisture too long which can damage roots and throw-off watering/feeding schedules. Plus, the more perlite you add, the easier it is for the nutrients to just run right through the medium and end-up in the drip tray, wasting nutrients and money. Your growroom might or might not be a stable enviornment throughout the year, but this does display the need to be flexible and understand the seasonal changes.

[headshake]

sharlson, why did you add lime to the sunshine no.4? it is prebuffered with dolomitic lime. has your plant been in it's current container for longer than 2 or 2 1/2 months?

-shake

[Randm999]

It looks to me like its been over nuted. You should not have to add nutes to such a young plant until it uses up that which is already in the soil mix.
I do not start adding nutes until a couple of weeks befor I am ready to 'flip' the plants into 12/12.
If I were you I would consider 1 of 2 cures.
1) repot into fresh soil mix
2) flush with ph'd water

Just my opinion.

[headshake]

It looks to me like its been over nuted. You should not have to add nutes to such a young plant until it uses up that which is already in the soil mix.
I do not start adding nutes until a couple of weeks befor I am ready to 'flip' the plants into 12/12.
If I were you I would consider 1 of 2 cures.
1) repot into fresh soil mix
2) flush with ph'd water

Just my opinion.

if the plant is over nuted, why would you re-pot into soil that has more nutes in it? you said you let your plant use up the nutes in the soil before adding any, so why add more by re-potting? when troubleshooting a problem you want to simplify, or take the most variables out of the puzzle that you can.

do you have any idea of the nute content in sunshine mix no.4?

the advice you are giving is a direct contradiction. wtf.

flushing would do you way better in this situation.


sharlson, listen to rusty and pic one nutes. i know i've hard of others getting good results with the dynagrow. never used it personally though.


-shake

[sharlson]

thanks for your replies everyone. i appreciate all your help!

rusty- thanks for helping! yeah maybe not a good idea to switch back and forth. was following a few old school growers threads who had really good results with both these nuts. one switching back and forth. the other not. everything they said about both nuts made a lot of sense to me, so��supposedly the jacks is way better than the miracle grow, but, what do i know really?
with the sunshine mix ive been doing water, feed, water with plenty of runoff each time to limit the build up. definitely been following both nuts schedules as per bottle, but have read so many conflicting opinions about following the bottles vs following a more scheduled ec increase by week. like week 3 1.0, week 4, 1.2 etc. been confused about that for sure and have been trying to read the plants. not so good at that yet i guess.
i amended the sunshine initially with the perlite and im not sure if this is my issue???? my room temps and humidity are pretty controlled and stable.

headshake- thanks for your response! i added lime after reading as much as i could about the sunshine mix and the lime it comes with not sticking around as long as i need it. my veg is long and when i pot up for the bloom room yeah they're in the pot about two months. think i shouldn't? and the mix really doesn't have much nutes in it at all - pretty inert after a week or so.

randm999- yeah, i thought they were overnuted too, which is why i flushed initially. the first two pics are before the flush, and the next ones are the same leaf/plant issues popping up again after picking off the destroyed leaves. the sunshine mix only has an initial starter charge of about a week or soâ?¦ these plant, though surely very stunted are more than a month old. i did repot some of the larger ones that had lots of roots swirling around last night into new mix though. i didn't flush.

[headshake]

headshake- thanks for your response! i added lime after reading as much as i could about the sunshine mix and the lime it comes with not sticking around as long as i need it. my veg is long and when i pot up for the bloom room yeah they're in the pot about two months. think i shouldn't? and the mix really doesn't have much nutes in it at all - pretty inert after a week or so.


yeah, it's not much nutes at all. just a little quick charge they call it, or something like that. you should resume regular feeding 7-10 days after transplanting.

that comment was meant for Randm9999. i should have quoted you. sorry for the confusion.


-shake

[Hempsouth]

Did the leaf tips start turning brown first or did the leaves start yellowing first?

They look like they can be salvaged IMO, it will just stunt & slow them down. If you had a quick hot Ph dive it may have toasted the roots though.

I recently started using recycled soil and did not do a test watering with it checking for runoff Ph. So I cooked a couple of seedlings, but I was able to add lime and bring them back to life with a transplant. These did not get nutes at all and they looked very similar to yours.

[sharlson]

thanks for your replies!

headshake yeah will do. thanks.

hempsouth- hey. the third pic down is how it starts. tan -yellowy, then .....
im hoping to save them for sure. beforei flushed em the first time, the ph was at about 5.8 - the lowest. dont think that would do it do you? that was with lime in there, but maybe the salt build up affected (dropped) the ph? im sure i was overwatering a bit at first, so maybe, hopefully, theyre just deficient on multiple fronts and my repot last night will solve something. hoping so..........

[polishpollack]

Give us an update in a few days.

[sharlson]

hempsouth- okay! not much change today but ill post back. thanks

[OldHead09]

Easy one, overfertilation. I would do what someone mentioned above. Flush plant with 2-3 times volume of fresh chlorine free PH'd water then transplant into inert medium, I would say this plant will live.

[sharlson]

Easy one, overfertilation. I would do what someone mentioned above. Flush plant with 2-3 times volume of fresh chlorine free PH'd water then transplant into inert medium, I would say this plant will live.

hey. yeah that's what i thought, which is why the first thing i did was flush to reset the medium. ro, ph'ed water. pics 1 and 2 are symptoms before the flush. then picked off bad leaves, and started on a low dose nutes. the rest of the pics are its progression again. i did transplant some of the bigger ones into new, fresh medium though. waiting to see about them, but still a little stumed. thanks for your reply!

[Hempsouth]

I recently sprouted a couple of beans in new cups and forgot to punch any drain/air holes in the cups. Once they got up about an 1.5" + I started keeping them wet because of indoor temps were really high.

These plants did the same thing as yours Sharlson and the only nutes in my soil mix for seedlings was about a 1/4 tablespoon of Bio Tone starter 4-3-3.
I guess the all the overwatering made any nutes available and toasted them, so I cut back all the fan leaves I could and replanted. They came back fine, it just took about 3 weeks.