Wilted Leaves After Res Change

[PurpleRoot]

I have a hydro system with a crop approximately three weeks old. The grow has been going well until my recent res change. I have changed the res three times with no issues. I have been reading about the benifits of oxygen to your roots, and that it was suggested that you disable your constant flow system for awhile to allow the roots to get a higher oxygen intake. Yesterday I emptied my res. I then added three gallons to my six gallon res, with one drop of superthrive. I allowed the system to flush for about 1.5 hrs. After the flush I filled my resevior back up, added nutrients, and made sure the ph was ok, it was- 5.75. Res temp is between 72-80. I have been using the same nutrients with no problems at all. 400w mh 12" from top of the plants, 18/6. Room temps 75-90, humidity averages at about 45%. Bagseed plated in rockwool then hydroton. I did not turn the pump back on for approximately 2.5 hours. Prior to turning the pump on, the plant looked great, about 1.5 hr later my leaves were all droopy. Woke this morning and they were the same way..... anyone have any ideas? Are they ok? I'm kinda stumped cause it looks like overwatering..... in a water system that is supposed to run 24/7...... oh one other thing, My 400w light was not initally directly over the plants, it was to the side over other plants, however the off light was enough for these babies, well I moved the 400w light directly over them and observed them to all get hot (leaves began turning up) so I put the light back to where I had it the first time.

Pictures in my album.

[PurpleRoot]

I have a bubbleponic system, that is supposed to be on 24/7, and has been with no problem whatsoever, but do you think it would help if I put the pump on a timer? Maybe to run 10 min every 4 hours? Baffled at what happened.... I should I have just kept doing what I was doing..... if it's not broke, don't fix it..... dam noobs.....

Is it possible where I let my plant sit without the drip for hours that it got "used to it" and "likes it" and now that it is on 24/7, it has decided it does not like that any more????

[tikiroom]

How many air stones do you have in the res, and how much air is being pumped into the res? The drip feed in a bubbler should only be used until the roots are reaching down into the water. Once the roots are submersed, you should remove the drip lines. Also what was the ph of the water you used for flushing?

I would recommend moving the light back to directly over your plants. Start it out higher up, and then over the coarse of a week or so, you can fine tune it to the height your girls are happy at.

[PurpleRoot]

thanks tikiroom for the reply:
Right now I have one air stone with one pump. I flushed the res with 5.75, thats about the reading coming out of the tap. Ya I really didn't know I was supposed to shut that pump off..... cool, now I MURDERED my babies :( Needless to say it is off, and the plants are perking up, I have little hope, I know theres a tidal wave of problems enroute for me.

After reading your post, it got me thinking about oxygen levels, res temps, overwatering, etc. I decided to check out my roots, even though I just had 12 hours ago and they were white and awesome, not today, nope.......... root rot.... so good news and bad news. Good news, I know whats up.... if that can even be good news, bad news, I know I have a nightmare on my hands now and will probably lose em, I don't think I have the experience yet to pull 'em through.... i'll trudge on and try though, oh trust me, grumbling the whole dam time too. do or do not. there is no try, right?

:wtf:

[tikiroom]

Yeah just keep on truckin with the ones you have, and figure out all the kinks. It's better to learn on these, than to stress a new batch.
Good luck, and happy growing. :hippy:

[tinytoon]

Are you sure it is root rot and not just nute stain?? Going from pretty white roots to root rot in 12 hours just dont sound right. Any clue what water temp is?? Dont want to go over 80 so if you are you can make ice packs out of empty soda bottles to toss in rez to cool it down. Size of bottle depends on size of res.

Have a nice day :)

[PurpleRoot]

I did not know res temp until recently, when I started getting temp it was around 85, without icepacks it is 74, I introduced some ice packs in the res today and will try and retain a temp of 68. I'm in the middle of my grow so it was hard to attempt to permentaly light proof it right now, but I jerry rigged black plastic bags around the res, and added a cardboard cut out for the top of the res, it's nice and dark now. After this grow, or death, I will permenatly light proof the res with black duct tape.

I had a little orange on one of the roots about a week ago and believed it to be nute stain, however, now that all of them have it, and the plants look sick and wilted, I think it's rot. I have pictures in my album if you'd like a look.

[Daddynobucks]

I never use dark solutions in the early stages because you can't tell rot from staining.:wtf: I always use Hygrozyme to keep roots WHITE .Liquid Karma is the worst stain, but superthrive,Florisious plus stains also, and some kelp products.

definatly stop top feeding after the roots hit water or fill the baskets,blocks.Stopping top feed will prevent alge and white salt build up on the top of the medium

I run 4 min ON 1-4 hrs OFF feed cycles, depending

hope some of this makes sence

Daddy

[BudLuv420]

Purp, I'm not famillar with bubbler system but your girls in your grow log dont look bad at all. I also try to stay away to 90 on temp. the highest I go is 82.

Also sorry not trying to hijack this thread but I got a question for DaddyNoBucks. I've been following your grow in the past & very impressed by your outcome. But there questions I have for you & if there is a place on this forum I can ask you & get some help I would appreciate it.

[PurpleRoot]

well my "wall" temp is almost always 78, the thermometer that always changes is the one level with the top of my dwc system, under the direct light of the hid. the temp changes when I move the light.

Update:
Today I performed the following functions to attempt to save my plants (theyre starting to look really bad, yellow, burn, spots, etc)
1. covered resevoir with black plastic, including cover
2. brought resevoir temp down from 80+ to 72 average, highest temp 74
3. added air pump and two stones to resevoir

prior to upgrades I added 1/4 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide 3% to resevoir, ran for 10 min, emptied, added 2 gallons, another 1/4 hydrogen peroxide, ran for 10 min, then added 5.75 ph water, 75% nutes, 4 drops of superthrive. i also flushed each of the root zones with solution, washed resevoir with hydrogen peroxide, cleaned out tubing. While cleaning I observed a brown/orange almost algee type stuff on the tubes, roots, etc. the substance did not smell nor was it slimey. Also when I was cleaning the roots I was expecting them to rip right off, they did not. The roots are still very strong and do not tear easily. As a matter of fact I don't think ANY roots fell off.

Plants still look horrible. Still look over watered..... I dunno, I'm running out of theories......

[joehank7]

Is your res in the same room with your plants? I didn't know if you mentioned it or not. Also maybe it would be better to put a white reflective covering over/around your res. I think black absorbs more heat than light colors.

[BudLuv420]

sounds like nuits lock out, flush with 5.8 water only for about a week & see if that helps. if it doesn't work you might call it a lost. that just happen to me, lost 9 out 20 & they grew no more than 8" tall.

[BudLuv420]

also do you have a fan them too.

[Daddynobucks]

Just start a new thread, ask Daddy

I would be glad answer ques. and share any info I have,I'm sure there will be others as well who have good answers

Daddy

[PurpleRoot]

Yes, I have fans 24/7... added 45ml of hygrozyme to my 6 gallon res today.... this morning when I woke up then plants acutally started to look better (leaves began to perk up, springy healthy look) but at about 6pm they began to look wilted again. Some of the bottom leaves of the plants have turned yellow, I'll let em fall off on their own. So I dunno, still crossing my fingers, I might do another resevoir change tomorrow, with breakin down everything and cleaning it again, then add nutes, superthrive, hygrozyme solution. Someone told me to keep doing this untill it fixes itself?

[avon211]

Come on Daddy who knows better than Daddy ....No one , well maybe Marty He is kickin it too. Hey guys I have been following and learning from the pro's here Daddy knows his shit forget the others!! Keep up the good input Daddynobucks:thumbsup:

[PurpleRoot]

I used 50ml of hydrogen peroxide to 6 gallons of water, next day plants looked 50% better. Roots also seemed to improve. Plants were reponding well so I allowed them to remain for a day. Checked ph earlier and it went up to 6.25! so i changed the res, 50% nutes, 50 ml h202, 45ml hygrozyme, 5 drops of superthrive- ph'd 5.5-5.75.

I'm not sure on the plants, sometimes I'm thinking they look good, othertimes I'm thinkin they're gonna drop dead any minute. Most of the leaves look ok, besides the wilt look.... oh and two of the leaves now look like claws.... but there has not been anymore yellowing/spots/dying leaves. Root growth looks really good after adding the hygrozyme, discoloration has not spread.

Keepin the faith! lol.... :wtf:

pics in profile

[MimbresValley]

Just my opinion, but I think you are changing your resevoir way to much, the guys from cch2o say 3 reservoir changes is about all thats needed for the whole grow.

If you have roots sitting in water thats ph of 5.5 then you flush with tap water thats 6.5, then re ph back down, you are just jacking your roots up, fast ph changes will cause root damage, its much better to bring your ph down over a 24 hour period.

If you plant is sitting in 5.5 water, make some 5.5 water to top it back with.

[MimbresValley]

Here is a picture of my roots three weeks into flower, roots are bright white,(they look kinda yellow cause of the HPS bulb giving that glow,but they are bright white)
[attachment=o258487]
I have not changed the reservoir out even once.:thumbsup:
I like using the KISS technique=)
check your EC, everyday if the ec goes up, then you have to much nutes in the water, if ec goes down, you need to feed a higher strength nutrient solution, its expensive changing the resevoir all the time, just my .02$.
Hit me up on yahoo if you ever want to chat a bit.
peace n

[MimbresValley]

When your plants are drinking Lots of water, and the ec is staying the same, then your in the sweet spot(least with the strains im rocking), its better if the ec is going down though everyday, much better than going up.

Another thought is, high EC concentrations reduce the waters ability to hold dissolved oxygen. :jointsmile:

[Daddynobucks]

There are a lot of folks on this site that have a good handle on this hydro thing.
What Mimbres valley is saying about rapid Ph change is correct, far less harm is done by a Ph out of range than a rapid correction of Ph. He is spot on about the EC staying relative to water use being the sweet spot. unfortunatly its not the same for all strains.:(
A Ph of 6.25 is not that far out of range though and changing out solutions every 10 days, only benifits the hydro chem sales people.

I would still run them on Phd 1/4 strength nuits for a while

The clawed leaves is indicating TOO MUCH nuits.

again I find that an EC of 0.5-0.7 is the best range or 450-650PPM

Daddy

[MimbresValley]

good advice daddy, yes things are very strain dependent, and 1/4 strength nutes sound good due to the stress.

[MadSativa]

sounds to me ,like your plants didn't like the bad hydrogen peroxide. the 2% peroxide has allot of impurities in it. thats why the hydrazine is 35% much more potent and clean. that red stuff might be red algae or possible a bad wash from your initial hydro tron wash. you Did was the hydro tron before using it correct? in any case I think if you continue with a mild hydrozin and a quarter or half nutes till everything corrects its self it should be ok. don't flush no more if it is not helping, you can keep the hydrazine in the res with everything else just at a much diluted ed level. Did you wash the hydro tron before using it? cause this can cause Ph fluctuations and some things you are describing. doesn't sound to bad though, I think they will pull through.