My two grow issues!! Troubleshooting form filled out

[Cattsy]

I would rather err on the side of caution and give TOO MUCH information than miss vital information that someone might need so here goes.

First off the handy dandy troubleshooting form:

What is your experience level? Beginner

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) 1000 watt HPS in the grow room, tube flouros in the veg/clone room
.2) Distance from tops? About 1.5-2 feet
.3) Reflector type? Big round one
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply?
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? Yes
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 12/12 for flower, 24 hour in nursery

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) Promix HP
.8) Size of container. 10 inch pots
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? Yes

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? Tap water to an aerated barrel. PH is 7
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) Kit I got from the grow store with the drops
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) Havenâ??t needed to yet
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.
-Advanced nutrients Micro/Grow/Bloom with Big Bud. 4mls of each per litre as taken from the calculator on their site.
Grow: 2-1-6
Micro: 5-0-1
Bloom: 0-5-4
Big Bud: 0-2-4

-Previous Nutrients were Okanagan Blend (Forgot to write down the numbers from the bottle, waiting to have them sent)
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? See grow log posted after this one
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)none
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? Stable so far
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? Water from the barrel is 7.0, After nutes wer added was 6.5, Runoff tested at 5.5
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? No

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Indoor
20) What size of closet, room or hut? Room
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? Donâ??t know
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? None in months

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) BC Sweet Tooth, Indica Dominant
24) From seeds or clones? Had one from seed, now clones.
25) Is this an autoflower strain? No

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

So now my first problem, Currently have three sweet tooth clones under the big light. First feeding was with the Okanagan blend nutes, then we ran out. We had been wanting to switch it up for awhile so decided to go advanced nutrients. Plants were watered for four days, just water, then another feeding of the avanced nutrients was given. Since then the plants have looked HORRID. THey've had nothing but water since. See below for more detailed grow log and pictures

Grow log:
9-14: Plants kicked into 12/12 ligh cycle under 1000 watt light
9-15: Fed with Okanagan Blend Nutes in following formula:
Grow 6ml
Micro 10ml
Bloom 16ml
Black Pearl 12ml (humic acid)

All measurements were per 4 litres of water, each plant got about 1.5 litres of the mix.

9-16 to 9-19: Water only 1.5-2.0 litres per day

9-20 to 9-21: Allowed to dry

9-22: First Feeding of Advanced Nutrients.
Micro/Grow/Bloom 4ml/Litre of water as per nutrient calculator on the AN site.

9-23: Noticed leaf burn, gave only water

Since the 23 till now these guys have received only water. They're still quite pale, but the burns don't seem to be getting worse, however one of the plants the new growth is coming in spindly and curled and very dark green. I linked some pictures (hope they work) I'm REALLY sorry for the crappy pictures, I'm going to take my SLR down the next time I go and take some better ones.

I'm not sure if we have lock going on, or burn, or what the H e double hockey sticks is going on :(

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/katsgrowroom/September%2028/DSCF0238.jpg
http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/katsgrowroom/September%2028/DSCF0234.jpg
http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/katsgrowroom/September%2028/DSCF0235.jpg
http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/katsgrowroom/September%2028/DSCF0237.jpg
http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/katsgrowroom/September%2028/DSCF0239.jpg

I have a few suspicions from theory but not enough practical experience to say yay or nay on... I'm doing his grow with a partner (plants are at his house) but he's about as green as I am heh we're both sorta flying by the seat of our pants.

I have another issue with my White Widow clones as well but I think I'll do another thread on those.

[WashougalWonder]

FLUSH! Looks like early N overload. If you can repot into just some new potting mix in a larger pot after that dries out enough to do the job.

[Rusty Trichome]

I believe WashougalWonder has you on the right track. :jointsmile:

A flush with properly ph'd water wouldn't hurt, but do not return to your watering/feeding schedule till the soil dries-out. Skip a watering or a feeding if necessary, but let your medium dry between waterings/feedings. Consistently saturated soil causes a variety of issues.

ProMix HP pdf (http://www.hort.purdue.edu/hort/facilities/downloads/proMixHP.pdf)
Promix High Porosity is buffered to a ph range of 5.5 to 6.5ish. This is pretty low for a soil based cannabis grow, so watch for signs of lockout. The buffering of most peat-based soils last around 6-8 weeks or so, after which the ph will dive to the highly acidic side. Nutrient lockout happens when above or below the proper range. (6.3ish to 6.8ish)
When was the last transplant into fresh soil?

Before making any ph corrections, understand that you can't use tinted (runoff) water to get your color-coded ph results. The tinting will skew the test results, so likely your runoff number(s) arent all that accurate.

For the nutrients:
I've never used Advanced Nutrients, but I'm guessing they are similar to most other nutrients in that:
Grow and Micro during growth stage, (per their weekly instructions) Micro and Bloom nutes throughout flower, (per their weekly instructions) and start the Big Bud half way through flower as well. But go easy on the Big Bud till you get the hang of adjusting your nutrients. Additives often kill when overused.
Have you checked the AN web site for their online nutrient calculator, or whatever it is they call their weekly feeding schedule? Check online, then check the bottle. If they differ in quantities or dosages, use the online numbers. Sometimes the bottle directions that are given asume you are using it as a stand-alone product.

For better pictures, adjust your camera's white balance.

[Cattsy]

The instructions on the Advanced nutrients site go something like this:

Weeks 1-7
Grow/Micro/Bloom 4mls/litre

Weeks 2-5 Add Big Bud 2mls/litre

Week 8 of course is flush.

Now here's some real noob questions:

1) He's been alternating feeding/watering every day. So one day water, the next feed. We've been adjusting how much water they get so they only get enough so they are slightly dry before the next water.

- Should we maybe be going every two days and giving slightly more but letting them dry out a bit more in between?

- I'm wondering if there is too much "stuff" in the feeding, someone mentioned that it looks like they were OVER fed, which makes sense since after we gave that first feeding of the Advanced nutrients they almost immediately started to burn. Perhaps cut the amounts in half?

From the comments I got seems it could be a couple of things. Here's what I was thinking for a plan of attack:

- Flush with ALOT of water (double the soil amount)
- Allow to dry sufficiently for a good root ball and repot

Now once I've done that should I feed them again right away? Full strength or half? Anyone have any experience with Advanced nutrients where it seem their recommended amounts seem like too much?

[Rusty Trichome]

Weeks 1-7
Grow/Micro/Bloom 4mls/litre
One application per week, isn't it?


Weeks 2-5 Add Big Bud 2mls/litre
Again...per week?


So one day water, the next feed. We've been adjusting how much water they get so they only get enough so they are slightly dry before the next water.

- Should we maybe be going every two days and giving slightly more but letting them dry out a bit more in between?
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to feed once a week at recommended dosages, and water till a slight runoff in between if necessary. At least that's how all the other nutrients I've worked with are. You have to get the water and nutrients down to the lower root zone, too. Otherwise the nutrients and salts tend to build-up to toxic levels.

[canniwhatsis]

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to feed once a week at recommended dosages, and water till a slight runoff in between if necessary. At least that's how all the other nutrients I've worked with are. You have to get the water and nutrients down to the lower root zone, too. Otherwise the nutrients and salts tend to build-up to toxic levels.

That sounds about right, I'm using the techiflora line (Haven't tried advanced line), and it's FEED WATER WATER, I allow the soil to almost completely dry before watering or feeding again, then water or feed until runoff.

I also stage my waterings, I know ruffly how much water it'll take, so I will water 1/3 let it soak in, then the next 1/3 soak, then the last 1/3, and typically about 1/4-1/2 of the last stage will be runoff. I feel that doing it this way prevents dry spots in my soil mass, weather or not that's true I don't know,... but it makes me feel better and the plants don't seem to mind! :hippy:

[Cattsy]

He was using a different blend before and was following the feeding chart from them and it was every second water to feed. I think he's been over feeding cause we've had issues with stuff not flushing properly. Also the other line of nutes he was using was really high in nitrogen, like double what the Advanced Nutrients is, which I think was causing problems as well. We've only just switched to the AN line, and so it's a whole new ballgame.

We'll cut down the feedings to once a week with good watering in between and go from there :) I've sold him on the "less is more" mentality so we're stripping it right back to basics and the minimal we need to give the plants what they need and will add/subtract/adjust from there! Thankfully we've got lots of clones to work with from this sweet tooth so we can tweak as needed and if we lose a few in the learning process it's all ok!

Thanks for all the advice :)

[Rusty Trichome]

Do not keep the soil saturated. Cannabis soil needs a wet-dry cycle or you risk the issues root rot and nutrient lockout will provide.

As with all additives and nutrients...know how, when and why before applying it to the plants.

Tell your buddy to read some of the appropriate grow logs and the FAQ's till his eyes bleed, and ask questions before trying anything new. No offense to your friend is intended, but the plants don't really give a damn about the reasons for the improper care. They'll crap-out regardless of the excuse(s) offered. :thumbsup:

[Cattsy]

Do not keep the soil saturated. Cannabis soil needs a wet-dry cycle or you risk the issues root rot and nutrient lockout will provide.

As with all additives and nutrients...know how, when and why before applying it to the plants.

Tell your buddy to read some of the appropriate grow logs and the FAQ's till his eyes bleed, and ask questions before trying anything new. No offense to your friend is intended, but the plants don't really give a damn about the reasons for the improper care. They'll crap-out regardless of the excuse(s) offered. :thumbsup:

The research is my job! LOL that's why he brought me in ;) He's the go-to guy and I'm the financial backing/brains in this operation haha. He's really computer challenged. We do have the growers bible for reference and that was great for a start.

I knew that this crop was going to be a learning curve, for both of us!

So glad I found a forum of helpful people :)

[Rusty Trichome]

Cool. Perhaps the plants stand a chance then, lol.

Seems a daunting task, but once you get into the swing of things...it's only as difficult as you want to make it. Beware of snake oils, miracle growth formula's and advise from those that have no business offering advise. (usually overconfident newcomers)

Oh...also...Printed grow guides may have some useful info and cute photo's, but often the information is out of date by the time you get the book. Don't get me wrong...they are a great reference tool, but they aren't the only tool in the toolbox, and they can't answer direct questions. Any questions, or if something doesn't sound right...give a holler. There's many qualified members on CanCom willing to give a hand.

Good luck to ya. :jointsmile: