100% Confused right now

[medical420mama]

Ok so got the email from swop last nite and then again today apologizing for the typo. Cool i didnt even notice it to begin with. Then i get an email from new mexican with the exact same thing word for word with the exception of the signature. I know i dont follow the stuff a whole lot but isnt SWOP and New Mexican two separate people and if so why do they have the same email?

[DemingNonProfit]

I would say there is a monopoly right now of producers, thats why 9 of 11 producers are in the guild.I have noticed several of the producers are on other producers boards, i believe this to be a monopoly, I think thats why the DOH has changed the regulations so BOD can only serve on 2 companies, or something to that effect.
thats just my guess though.

[DemingNonProfit]

Although I may very well be wrong about the monopoly, maybe the guild has the patients best interest in mind, although Looking at the inflated Blackmarket prices all these non-profit dispensaries are charging disable people, I really doubt it.
I mean fair market value is based of a inflated black market price.

If you guys made corn illegal tomorrow the prices in a couple months corn would be a 1,000.oo a pound, to consider that black market figure a fair market value is NUTS.

It doesnt cost 4,000.00-5,000.00 to grow a lb of cannabis indoors.
The Producers need to become more efficent, and then pass the savings on to the customers!
..:rastasmoke:

[alfonso2002]

GOOD POINTS Deming

[DemingNonProfit]

Damn you hit the nail on the head Blackhash.:thumbsup:

[BosqueBoy]

My Dad used to say that the best thing you could do with your money was to keep it in your pocket. Bypassing the producers ( who are mostly well meaning but hopelessly overwhelmed) and growing your own medicine serves several purposes.
It is substantially less expensive (in the short and long run). The quality of product is usually as good as the approved producers and quite often better.

There are many patients (a majority) who's dream of growing their own is a hopeless dream because of poor health, situations where growing is impossible, or extreme poverty. Of the 1000+ who have their personal production permits, I would be suprised if a very high percentage were actively producing their own meds.
If you have the ability to grow your own, and don't, If you buy more than you truly need, your'e contributing to the shortages which are so disasterous to those that need the medicine the most.
Keep your money in your pocket, and let those with no other recourse go to the head of the line. You'll feel better. They'll feel better. And perhaps we can positively affect the outcome of the shortages we're experiencing...BB

[JohnMonad]

I know many of the people and Producers in the Producers Guild.
My feeling from speaking to them is they absolutely put this organization together for the benefit of the patients.
The 11 producers and whomever comes next don't feel they are in competition with each other. After all, they can only grow 95 plants at one time and get X amount of yield from them. As we have seen from the past, they sell out immediately all they can grow because of the current ratio of patients to Producers.
Imagine if they can coordinate their grow cycles and harvests so there will always be medicine available to patients within 24 hours of ordering. Instead of having to wait a few weeks or a few months.
My feeling is the Guild will be a positive thing for us all.
Lets give these passionate pioneers a chance.

[DemingNonProfit]

I would say very ill patients(cancer, aids,) are the ones most likely unable to grow their own, due to health problems, and most likely poverty due to medical costs from their health problems.

How in the world are terminally ill patients to afford the average 370.00$ on ounce price tag. Almost 6,000.00$ a pound.

As blackhash and myself can attest to it doesnt cost anywhere near what the producers are charging to produce cannabis. Close to 6,000.00$ A pound.

I wonder what kind of salaries these Board of Director members are receiving?

I am not saying the producers should work for free,they should receive a reasonable compensation, but 6,000.00 a pound, they are just bending the sick patients of New Mexico over a table.

I think the DOH should regulate what board members are allowed to take home for compensation.

I would also have to disagree most of these non profits are well meaning, if they were, they wouldn't be charging these BLACK MARKET INFLATED PRICES!
Period!
The dispensaries may tell people they have gotten into this to "help" people, but I don't think selling somebody who is desperately ill medicine for close to 400.oo an ounce when it only costs around 30.oo$ to produce that same ounce.
Thats helping people?

[DemingNonProfit]

I just heard about this group the other day. This is NOT good for the patients.

Sorry to say, folks, but "cheap" meds just aren't coming via this model. These folks are basing their BUSINESS MODELS on $400 an ounce and once they get a taste of that type of cash they won't be lowering those prices.

Here in CO there is more pot available for sale than I've >>ever<< seen in my life, yet the only place the prices have FALLEN is in the wholesale pricing arena.

On a retail level the dispensaries are priced at the same prices they were when they sprung up like flies on s___ last Summer, even though the behind the scenes prices have fallen well over $1200 per pound. The dispensary game here is signing up as many new folks as they can - qualified or not...to be able to grab their card and grow with it and sell them high-priced meds all day long.

such is why we must get folks GROWING. If you rely on this producer model i'm gonna have to send you some VASELINE cus...um...well... do i have to SPELL IT OUT???

blackhash

:smokebong:
Im glad someone gets it.

[BosqueBoy]

I'm currently serving on two boards. I don't know how other producers compensate their board members, but neither of the ones I serve have any structure set up to pay board members. Besides basic expenses and the ability to sample the product, I can't see why paying a board member would be necessary....BB

[coolslayer]

I would say very ill patients(cancer, aids,) are the ones most likely unable to grow their own, due to health problems, and most likely poverty due to medical costs from their health problems.

How in the world are terminally ill patients to afford the average 370.00$ on ounce price tag. Almost 6,000.00$ a pound.

As blackhash and myself can attest to it doesnt cost anywhere near what the producers are charging to produce cannabis. Close to 6,000.00$ A pound.

I wonder what kind of salaries these Board of Director members are receiving?

I am not saying the producers should work for free,they should receive a reasonable compensation, but 6,000.00 a pound, they are just bending the sick patients of New Mexico over a table.

I think the DOH should regulate what board members are allowed to take home for compensation.

I would also have to disagree most of these non profits are well meaning, if they were, they wouldn't be charging these BLACK MARKET INFLATED PRICES!
Period!
The dispensaries may tell people they have gotten into this to "help" people, but I don't think selling somebody who is desperately ill medicine for close to 400.oo an ounce when it only costs around 30.oo$ to produce that same ounce.
Thats helping people?

My understanding of the situation is that the DOH makes the Producers charge a minimum price so that it will not be FAR lower than street prices because they are worried about patients reselling meds at a profit.

[coolslayer]

I'm currently serving on two boards. I don't know how other producers compensate their board members, but neither of the ones I serve have any structure set up to pay board members. Besides basic expenses and the ability to sample the product, I can't see why paying a board member would be necessary....BB

The law of supply and demand is the reason to pay board members......patients are in short supply,driving up demand,therefore it follows that the patients should be catered to(pay,free meds,product tester, etc.).It would be different if there were a lot of patients.Please don't sell yourself short......

[DemingNonProfit]

I'm currently serving on two boards. I don't know how other producers compensate their board members, but neither of the ones I serve have any structure set up to pay board members. Besides basic expenses and the ability to sample the product, I can't see why paying a board member would be necessary....BB

From my first impression I really don't think you understand how the board of directors works, have you actually read the bylaws and articles of incorporations of the companies you are working with?
I could bet you almost anything you are simply on the advisory board.
Being an "advisory board" member, you have no vote or any real say on anything of importance, thats why its called being on the "advisory board".

And that is why they don't pay you, but I promise you the "executive board" is getting paid.

[DemingNonProfit]

:rastasmoke:
My understanding of the situation is that the DOH makes the Producers charge a minimum price so that it will not be FAR lower than street prices because they are worried about patients reselling meds at a profit.

Do you have any proof of this?! Sounds like something the producers would tell the patients as to why they have to charge so much..:jointsmile:

I have heard hearsay about them wanting to keep the prices high, but have no proof, for all I know thats something the "guild" is telling folks, although since the DOH is going to start collecting 7% of gross sales, I can see why they want to keep the price, high.

Does anyone in this damn program actually care about the patients?

[BosqueBoy]

I am on the executive board. Why should I be paid (outside basic expenses) for serving in a capacity that I consider my public duty. Every dollar they would give me is a dollar taken away from someone who needs it more. I'm sorry. I don't believe being a board member should be a money making venture...BB

[DemingNonProfit]

so bosque, since it costs under 30.00$ to produce an ounce, and if the company is only reimbursing board members on their expenses. Where is all the money going? why are the prices still so damn high?
Since you on are the "executive board" of directors, would you care to share?

And have you read the bylaws and articles of incorporation for both companies?

I have grown 8 years, I can easily grow a pound of dried cannabis after expenses(electricity,nutrients,etc..) for less than 300.00 a pound, Guaranteed
and the companies are charging close to 6,000.00 a pound.
Again I say, where is all the money going??

[coolslayer]

I am on the executive board. Why should I be paid (outside basic expenses) for serving in a capacity that I consider my public duty. Every dollar they would give me is a dollar taken away from someone who needs it more. I'm sorry. I don't believe being a board member should be a money making venture...BB

So you think that the Producers should make all the money and no patients should? I thought this program was about the patients' needs,not the Producer's needs.

[coolslayer]

:rastasmoke:

Do you have any proof of this?! Sounds like something the producers would tell the patients as to why they have to charge so much..:jointsmile:

I have heard hearsay about them wanting to keep the prices high, but have no proof, for all I know thats something the "guild" is telling folks, although since the DOH is going to start collecting 7% of gross sales, I can see why they want to keep the price, high.

Does anyone in this damn program actually care about the patients?

I have no proof of it,but Vigil has insinuated it in several news articles.......

[coolslayer]

so bosque, since it costs under 30.00$ to produce an ounce, and if the company is only reimbursing board members on their expenses. Where is all the money going? why are the prices still so damn high?
Since you on are the "executive board" of directors, would you care to share?

And have you read the bylaws and articles of incorporation for both companies?

I have grown 8 years, I can easily grow a pound of dried cannabis after expenses(electricity,nutrients,etc..) for less than 300.00 a pound, Guaranteed
and the companies are charging close to 6,000.00 a pound.
Again I say, where is all the money going??

I would like those answers also,but I'm not gonna hold my breath and wait......

[medical420mama]

I would like those answers also,but I'm not gonna hold my breath and wait......

I agree cool.

[DemingNonProfit]

you guys should read this article.

The Problem With Nonprofits - US News and World Report (http://politics.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/03/04/the-problem-with-nonprofits.html)

[MimbresValley]

so bosque, since it costs under 30.00$ to produce an ounce, and if the company is only reimbursing board members on their expenses. Where is all the money going? why are the prices still so damn high?
Since you on are the "executive board" of directors, would you care to share?

And have you read the bylaws and articles of incorporation for both companies?

I have grown 8 years, I can easily grow a pound of dried cannabis after expenses(electricity,nutrients,etc..) for less than 300.00 a pound, Guaranteed
and the companies are charging close to 6,000.00 a pound.
Again I say, where is all the money going??

Deming, You should work for dateline, sounds like you ask the real hard hitting questions that inquiring minds want to know.:thumbsup:

[PatientNM]

so bosque, since it costs under 30.00$ to produce an ounce, and if the company is only reimbursing board members on their expenses. Where is all the money going? why are the prices still so damn high?
Since you on are the "executive board" of directors, would you care to share?

And have you read the bylaws and articles of incorporation for both companies?

I have grown 8 years, I can easily grow a pound of dried cannabis after expenses(electricity,nutrients,etc..) for less than 300.00 a pound, Guaranteed
and the companies are charging close to 6,000.00 a pound.
Again I say, where is all the money going??

Dear Deming and Blackhash,
Iâ??m really conflicted about you guys. On one hand you two sound like you would make the ultimate kick ass producer.
A pound for $300!! Oh my god PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

Why have you guys not applied for your producership?

I would like to be first in line to sign up as a patient and would volunteer to be on your board for free. Hell Iâ??ll even work 10 hours a week volunteering for free, just to help make this happen.

The conflicting part comes in when I read all your posts about how much better you can do and yet YOU DO NOTHING.

Come on guys!
What gives, donâ??t you think you are being (just a bit IMHO) a little selfish?
You can grow $300 a pound of high grade medical cannabis, and you are not growing for us poor folks here?!?!?!?


What do we need to do to make this happen???

[MimbresValley]

I harvest 3-4 ounces of dried plant material off one plant every 3 weeks, in a perpetual harvest, One plant is put in the flowering room, then three weeks later another plant, etc...
So over a 12 week period I have 4 harvests, when you total the 4 harvest I will have between12-16 ounces of dried plant material(which I smoke all of during that time:jointsmile:). I never go over my plant numbers this way, never having more than 4 mature plants in the flower room.

And yes it is costing me less than 300.00$ to produce it.:thumbsup:

At first I thought Deming was under shooting but after doing the numbers for myself his numbers are correct, that is not taking into consideration securtiy, gas expense, etc.that the producers charge, I think the producers should def be able to do it for a 1,000.00$ a pound no problem, so 2.00$-3.00$ grams.

Me personally I just use one 600w HPS and a small seperate veg room with a couple cfl's

.7$ an hour for electricity to run my 600, 12 hours a day in the flower room
so .07x12x84 = 70.56$

.7$ an hour for electricity for the AC which runs 24 hours a day for 84 days. 141.12$

.1$ for my carbon filter/inline fan 24 hours a day, for 63 days, 7.56$

Not much more for the fans and nutrients.

So yeah 300.00$ sounds about right!:thumbsup:

[veryangry]

Dear Deming and Blackhash,
Iâ??m really conflicted about you guys. On one hand you two sound like you would make the ultimate kick ass producer.
A pound for $300!! Oh my god PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

Why have you guys not applied for your producership?

I would like to be first in line to sign up as a patient and would volunteer to be on your board for free. Hell Iâ??ll even work 10 hours a week volunteering for free, just to help make this happen.

The conflicting part comes in when I read all your posts about how much better you can do and yet YOU DO NOTHING.

Come on guys!
What gives, donâ??t you think you are being (just a bit IMHO) a little selfish?
You can grow $300 a pound of high grade medical cannabis, and you are not growing for us poor folks here?!?!?!?


What do we need to do to make this happen???


If you read his posts more carefully,you will see that blackhash doesn't reside in NM.Can't speak on Deming's info.

[MimbresValley]

Does everyone understand how to figure out how much they are spending on electricity, do I need to give a better example?

[veryangry]

Not for me,you don't.

[MimbresValley]

I harvest 3-4 ounces of dried plant material off one plant every 3 weeks, in a perpetual harvest, One plant is put in the flowering room, then three weeks later another plant, etc...
So over a 12 week period I have 4 harvests, when you total the 4 harvest I will have between12-16 ounces of dried plant material(which I smoke all of during that time:jointsmile:). I never go over my plant numbers this way, never having more than 4 mature plants in the flower room.

And yes it is costing me less than 300.00$ to produce it.:thumbsup:

At first I thought Deming was under shooting but after doing the numbers for myself his numbers are correct, that is not taking into consideration securtiy, gas expense, etc.that the producers charge, I think the producers should def be able to do it for a 1,000.00$ a pound no problem, so 2.00$-3.00$ grams.

Me personally I just use one 600w HPS and a small seperate veg room with a couple cfl's

.7$ an hour for electricity to run my 600, 12 hours a day in the flower room
so .07x12x84 = 70.56$

.7$ an hour for electricity for the AC which runs 24 hours a day for 84 days. 141.12$

.1$ for my carbon filter/inline fan 24 hours a day, for 84 days, 10.08$

Not much more for the fans and nutrients.

So yeah 300.00$ sounds about right!:thumbsup:


Edit* Just fixed the carbon filter days*

[MimbresValley]

so bosque, since it costs under 30.00$ to produce an ounce, and if the company is only reimbursing board members on their expenses. Where is all the money going? why are the prices still so damn high?
Since you on are the "executive board" of directors, would you care to share?

And have you read the bylaws and articles of incorporation for both companies?

I have grown 8 years, I can easily grow a pound of dried cannabis after expenses(electricity,nutrients,etc..) for less than 300.00 a pound, Guaranteed
and the companies are charging close to 6,000.00 a pound.
Again I say, where is all the money going??

Deming, I keep reading this post and thinking BRAVO! Glad someone is saying what needs to be said!:jointsmile:

[alfonso2002]

Not sure on this but I think deming is trying to get his app. approved. And as far as blackhash you right he is not in N.M. It also takes quite a bit of cash to start a nonprofit.And even if you did have the money it is not easy to start.DOH makes it very hard to get approved by them. Also I think that DOH wants to keep the price high.

[MimbresValley]

I am working on getting the application together, I am working solo at the second and could def use some help, hopefully Deming will consider teaming up with me.:thumbsup:

[alfonso2002]

Good LUCK with your app. I think there are about 80 apps. in at this time

[MimbresValley]

They should have a "grow off" best bud wins, worst buds loses their licenses, someone else gets a shot, lol:thumbsup:

[alfonso2002]

not a bad idea.

[DemingNonProfit]

I attended and testified at the DOH hearing last week. I understand there will be people who will disagree with my testimony which I am reprinting below. I don't pretend to have all the answers. For those who have a different point of view I'm willing to listen and engage in civil discourse. Ultimately, I believe that if the patients in this program are united, we have the power to influence both the DOH and the licensed providers. If at some point in time that means a boycott of the LNPP's, so be it.


As a patient in the Medical Marijuana Program, I thank you for allowing my voice to be heard. I ask for your patience as my condition is such that I only leave my apartment on rare occasions due to the severe and overwhelming anxiety I experience in public. To speak in a forum such as this pushes me far beyond what I would call a comfortable mental or physical state. I would ask that you excuse me if I stutter, stammer, or am unable to complete my statement.
While I have read the changes proposed by the New Mexico Department of Health regarding the Medical Cannabis Program, I regret that I have not had the opportunity to research the impact of these proposals to where I would feel competent addressing them in a lucid and productive discourse. Fortunately for all involved, there are others present who have studied the proposals at length and will speak more eloquently about these topics than I. This much I will say: What the Department of Health is proposing in giving the Secretary what appears to be all-encompassing determination regarding nearly all aspects of the Medical Cannabis Program is at best shortsighted and at worst, criminal.
So if I have nothing to add to this discussion, you may ask what would compel me to leave the safe environment of my home in Albuquerque to attend this hearing? My response is this: I am here to support the patients in this program of which I am one. I am here to support those patients who due to severe and debilitating conditions are unable to attend in person. I am here to support those patients who canâ??t afford their medication due to the unreasonable costs of the product. While it is easy to point to the New Mexico Department of Health as the villain in the price gouging for legitimate medication, the licensed producers are just as culpable in this charade. I know there are groups who help individuals who canâ??t afford medication and I thank them for that. But we must have significantly lower prices for ALL patients. Instead we have the Department of Health and licensed providers fighting over who is going to get what part of the patients money. As in many cases, non-profit is a misleading term. In addition to addressing the financial and covetous deportment of the DOH at this hearing, we should be debating salary limitations on the providers in order to effectively lower the cost of medication for ALL patients.
I have been in this Program for nearly one year and I canâ??t afford my medication. I am currently on disability from my chosen occupation. I am not receiving nor am I asking for ANY state or federal assistance. Neither the State of New Mexico nor the Federal Government pay one dime of my disability income. If I were to buy Medical Cannabis through the approved dispensaries I would not be able to pay my rent or feed myself. The fact is, one ounce of Medical Marijuana purchased through the approved providerâ??s costs more than one monthâ??s rent for me.
I would like to believe that between the Department of Health and the licensed providers there are some human beings who are involved in this program for altruistic reasons. But I will state unequivocally, that both entities primary interest is to make money off the backs of patients in the program. Anyone who has done research into the growing of marijuana knows that the percentage of profit margin for providers is potentially far beyond what is morally acceptable when it comes to patientâ??s medication. If they say this is untrue then they are either incompetent or liars. But what I find most insulting is that I received no less than two emails from each licensed provider in New Mexico pleading for my attendance at this hearing to support their positions. In other words, you asked me and every patient in the New Mexico program to come and support you while you financially rape me and my brethren.
Let me be clear. I support the patients. I condemn the DOH for the temerity to suggest these new proposals, which to a political layman such as myself, appear to grant total and unfettered control of this program to one person or committee without a modicum of oversight or grounds for appeal. And to the providers, you should be embarrassed to think that as patients we are naïve enough to support your self-serving agenda.
Shame on both of your houses for taking advantage of my brothers and sisters who through no fault of their own canâ??t defend themselves against the machinations of this system.

Thank you



GREAT POST!!!!!

[alfonso2002]

Dear Deming and Blackhash,
Iâ??m really conflicted about you guys. On one hand you two sound like you would make the ultimate kick ass producer.
A pound for $300!! Oh my god PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

Why have you guys not applied for your producership?

I would like to be first in line to sign up as a patient and would volunteer to be on your board for free. Hell Iâ??ll even work 10 hours a week volunteering for free, just to help make this happen.

The conflicting part comes in when I read all your posts about how much better you can do and yet YOU DO NOTHING.

Come on guys!
What gives, donâ??t you think you are being (just a bit IMHO) a little selfish?
You can grow $300 a pound of high grade medical cannabis, and you are not growing for us poor folks here?!?!?!?


What do we need to do to make this happen???

WHAT here you are begging volunteering putting down "and you are not growing for us poor folks here?!?!?!?" YET you will not make a stand For something that is trying to do just that for all of US. WHAT GIVES "What do we need to do to make this happen???"[/B][/QUOTE]

[medical420mama]

Dear Deming and Blackhash,
Iâ??m really conflicted about you guys. On one hand you two sound like you would make the ultimate kick ass producer.
A pound for $300!! Oh my god PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

Why have you guys not applied for your producership?

I would like to be first in line to sign up as a patient and would volunteer to be on your board for free. Hell Iâ??ll even work 10 hours a week volunteering for free, just to help make this happen.

The conflicting part comes in when I read all your posts about how much better you can do and yet YOU DO NOTHING.

Come on guys!
What gives, donâ??t you think you are being (just a bit IMHO) a little selfish?
You can grow $300 a pound of high grade medical cannabis, and you are not growing for us poor folks here?!?!?!?


What do we need to do to make this happen???

I could do the same and i could give you my reasoning on why i don't produce for us. Its because we (my family) are very low income and becoming a producer means i would need a grow site, water and electric going, lots of lights, lots of equipment, it is a huge first time expense that a lot of people cant afford. Unless you are will to contribute to all necessary equipment then sure ill do it tomorrow. I cant take any loans out, there is no way in hell my family or my husbands family would help, i don't see me winning the lottery anytime soon, and i seriously doubt the state has assistance to help get you started because they are to cheap to make a program to help patients that cant afford their medication. Thats my two cents.

[alfonso2002]

nice rant mama

[Edubbl79]

I harvest 3-4 ounces of dried plant material off one plant every 3 weeks, in a perpetual harvest, One plant is put in the flowering room, then three weeks later another plant, etc...
So over a 12 week period I have 4 harvests, when you total the 4 harvest I will have between12-16 ounces of dried plant material(which I smoke all of during that time:jointsmile:). I never go over my plant numbers this way, never having more than 4 mature plants in the flower room.

And yes it is costing me less than 300.00$ to produce it.:thumbsup:

At first I thought Deming was under shooting but after doing the numbers for myself his numbers are correct, that is not taking into consideration securtiy, gas expense, etc.that the producers charge, I think the producers should def be able to do it for a 1,000.00$ a pound no problem, so 2.00$-3.00$ grams.

Me personally I just use one 600w HPS and a small seperate veg room with a couple cfl's

.7$ an hour for electricity to run my 600, 12 hours a day in the flower room
so .07x12x84 = 70.56$

.7$ an hour for electricity for the AC which runs 24 hours a day for 84 days. 141.12$

.1$ for my carbon filter/inline fan 24 hours a day, for 63 days, 7.56$

Not much more for the fans and nutrients.

So yeah 300.00$ sounds about right!:thumbsup:

you are very economical/ what about rent? cost of warehouse location?

[alfonso2002]

that is not taking into consideration securtiy, gas expense, etc.that the producers charge, I think the producers should def be able to do it for a 1,000.00$ a pound no problem, so 2.00$-3.00$ grams.

[MadSativa]

that will never happen the cap is at 50 a 8th and that is a good deal. the point of having a producer is to be able to try the products so you know what to grow in your rooms, the producers are not supposed to supply a constant even when at 100%. Unless your rich of coarse and 6400 a pound is nothing to you. seeds can be ordered on-line though attitude Dr chronic and many many others but those are the biggest ones at the moment.

1000 pound will never happen I don't car if you growing herb in a field and never use nutes and just let them be free the medical buds will not go for 1000 a pound at minimum 2500 and even then that is pushing it. I would say 3500-3000 a pound is more legit or close to reality.

you guys are not putting into account how medical is grown, nutrients are not cheep, electricity is not cheep, house or warehouse is not cheep. Yeah their are people out their that can grow with garbage and tin cans but is that what you want to supply your medical buds, in fact no it is against the law.

just a little in site, advanced nutes for 1 season about 2,000, power for on season, about 2,000, seeds for initial start about 2,000 supplies such as environment and pots and dirt, about 6,000, amount for growers and ware house or house about 10,000. sale and deliver cost about 2,000. with 3 or even 4 grow seasons in a year you can see why the price is high. medical is not some cheep throw seeds in dirt comeback in 3 months and you have medical buds, it is involved and is even therapeutic, its not building houses but its watering spraying foliage, in other words gardening, something psychiatrist prescribe to their patients all the time because of its non stressful ness and its involvement with environment and small physical activity. it can be fun

this is all a very ruff estimate and I am being very giving in that I am sure they spend more. how do you see $1,000 pounds coming out of this? not even in makebelive land. when you grow on your own you will see when you have a room big enough to fit 4 plants and a 1000W light at least, that the little 4 plant jungle will be much better when babbyed and your buds will be much more and and more potent, and you sell your pound for 1,000.

the point of this thing going on here in NM is for you to grow your own, that is the way it should be, so you do not have to pay insane prices for plant matter. Their will be people who are not able to grow for them selves and will need medicine, and hopefully in the future co-ops will be able to donate to them. Co-ops are card holders and licensed growers that don't need all 4 plants all the time so they donate here and there, not allot maybe a quarter each or a oz here and there but if you have 10 or more co-ops doing things like this then problems like 10% of card holders who can not grow and not afford medicine can have it available. There are many ways to make things like this happen but not when your all waiting for the producers to produce, I know everyone when not knowing what strain is best for you that uncertainty is a big suck cause you don't want to waste a whole season on a plant that sucks, but believe in those that have come before you. buy seeds like bubba kush white rhino, almost any greenhouse strain, if you like sativa then greenhouse has some of the best, if you want NM genetics then you are wasting your time, cause those genetics are hidden and secret and personally why you would want those I don't know, you not growing in the mountains or in the green house thats what those strains were bread for our environment not medical value. and when your in that position you can donate the $1000 pounds cause you will be donating, your time your money and your medicine.

Northern lights any kush or haze or bubblegum indica type strains will have value to you, and if you don't like it I am sure their is fair trade amongst card holders, the point is is you have the power to grow and that in its self is a monumental power, because you know have the power to heal. most will not grow AAA buds right a away but those that do, write about it, tell people about using, distilled water for germ nd clones and tell about bleach being the mother of all fuk ups, cause they will kill rooms silently and almost over night. Tell things of our environment and pest is not a big problem but heat is . these things will help each other greatly, reading posts about how high I got on shishkaberry isn't the best read for medical people cause it don't answer questions like nausea, or pain relief or head grogginess or hangover or something as simple as is it Sativa or Indica. But if you guys are growing different strains you can talk about it and to those that think well maybe thats the bud for me you can trade or grow a plant of that strain or go to the producer and ask if they have that strain, so you don't have to buy seeds and uses a season to grow a strain that is not for you.

Point is you have the power to grow and go big, if you start with small plants then remember small yields and you are allowed 4 plants so that is gonna be a Small yield, where as even if you grow one big plant that one plant could have enough medicine for months. a little plant might yield medicine for one week, does not work for us, in our situation. the need to grow bigger don't have to be massive but big a 4 or 5 foot plant in a 20 or 30 gallon dirt pot is what we need to look at not producers, cause this isn't Cali, their is not producers on every corner, yet, but when we all get growing there will be. Gotta give those guys a chance do get tehri curve in gear caseue rember the govenrment is not here to protect you they are not here to help you they dont even care about you, they careabout peoplethat can work and make money for them. Government is a bussines not a legacy anymore so it is time to over grow the government, and help from with in, let them scrambel about caseu soon enough we will have to be scramblin again too, it goes in cycles and cyles means at some point it will be dry, or it will be hard, so save up during the good times to better the bad times. hell if you can do it over thorw the government to bring it bck to land of the free home of the brave, but were all not Gorge Washington so help your own then soon enough everybodys help will spread out, it is the way this whole thing started Lynn was a person not a name or a compasionit act, we all now know, theri were many Lynn's buy holding our selves back we are bringing dishonor to those before us, do not get discourage, it is ok to ask for help or bring your situation on to the forum as long as it does not incriminate you or others. I have yet to see a grow quetion from NM, but that is not supprising Nm is full of green thumbs and Farmers, but if theri out theri let them fly if you have questions on strains let them fly if you dont know what to do becaeu you have a card and no buds then let it be known but the answer is going to be growing answers not hook ups in most cases anyway.

to feed a person you feed him for a day to teach a person to grow and hunt you feed him and those that come after him forever.
you see sometimes they have to kill us caseu they cant kill our spirit, They will never be able to kill our spirt only we can do that.

[alfonso2002]

Thank you Madsativa for that inspiration I also think that we have to take it in our own hands.It is not easy to start when you are not sure of what you are doing but we have to start someplace. I think alot of people are afraid to ask for help because they fear being put down for not having the right type of knowledge.WE do have to make connections and help each other in that way we will be able to overcome what we lack
in knowledge and fear. I hope at some point all nm mmps will be growing there own meds. again thank you .ps the Co-ops thing sounds like a good thing CAN IT BE DONE here in nm?

[MadSativa]

I don't think it is fully legal here in NM for co-ops, but co-ops are not something that is advertised, and they don't have meetings at the Hilton every month. co-ops are started cause someone says my herb is better then that, then some one says well we cant believe you unless we try it, so all the card holders in place sample each others meds and they see with their own eyes and minds who has the better genetics and the greener thumbs. but mostly what comes out of this is , well I know Dave in Socorro has some powerful stuff too so champ 1 meets Dave and a new strain is tested. this goes on and on until finally some says, I have a extra oz here and their we should start getting together a list of patients to spread out the oz to. might be 2 people at first but in the end you will have made your own secret community of legal card holders getting better genetics, getting better knowledge, and getting better with the community of medical. it has been close to 4 years this had been legal and were closer to the same place as when we started, politicians threatening to put it all down patients don't know where to go for advice or some still think this medical hype is all propaganda that hippies are taking over the Nation. People don't know that their are hundreds even thousands getting cured from oils and concentrates, and more in the thousands are getting relief from simply smoking Cannabis. the government still throws Cannabis in the news as a crime, when their are hundreds if not thousands of Cannabis dispensaries in the Nation already. people are in denial when penicillin came out people would not take it choosing death instead of eating medicine that came from mold.

It is this mentality we have to drive out of the country the mentality of no that can not be and should not be. this is a big problem when you deal with absolutes what happens when something is pr oven that is not popular. this is what happens this situation we are in now. you don't have to stand on top of my soap box but if you do thanks, but even more important is when you are in a position to help at least try. And remember in a co-op you are not alone that is the whole point more heads, more answers.

[MadSativa]

just something I have noticed the state and the government is trying to segregate us from the rest of the populous and even each other (cardholders). it is easier to conquer when you foe is divided. simple to evade this is to not divide in fact these times are times for card holders to get together better, this is happening in Cali right now, and they are making an effort to put out their own propaganda effort and have even gotten a place on the ballot to legalize for recreational use not just medical.

the nation is now closer to 50% medical and there is still the question of is it medicine, that is the crime right their when the truth stares you in the face and you denied the truth. that is what a little over 50% of the nation is doing now, but even 10 years ago they had a way bigger lead and now were close to 50-50 soon the truth will pull more toward the light but not if we all wait for them to come to the light

[alfonso2002]

MadSativa you make a lot of sense to me .But it is not easy in this forum to be able to communicate with others . are you at the farm

[MimbresValley]

MadSativa, No offence but you mention 2000.00$ for advancded nutrients for a season, lets take a more in depth look, if I used 2,000.00$ in nutrients I would harvest about 90 pounds of cannabis about every 112 days off of 60 plants, and it would be about another 2,000.00$ in additives on top of nutrients, so about 4,000.00$ for nutrients, would yield about 400,000.00-500,000.00$ worth of cannabis.


for a 60 plant set up, you would need 50 litters of hydroponic nutrients , around 480,00$ dollars.

and140 litters of bloom nutrients, would be about 1,200.00$

60 plant setup, Total 112day for each harvest.

(2 weeks to root cuttings, 28 days veg, 70 days flowering. â?�market price of 4,000.00$â?�.)
1.5 lbs per plant = 90 pounds =360,000.oo$
1.75lbs per plant =105 pounds=420,000.oo$

Yes that is 420,00.00$ every 112 days, with only 60 plants!!! at a market price of 4,000.00$, even though the producers are charging closer to 6,000.00$


Clone room/mother room 2 weeks of t5, 50.oo$
20x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 18 hours a day for 7 days 327.6o$
60x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 18 hours a day for 21 days 2,948.4o$
60x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 12 hours a day for 10 weeks (indica sativa blend) 6552.00$
AC 65 amps for 24 hours a day for 7 days, 141.96$
AC 128.8 amps 24 hours a day for 91 days 3,690.04$
Water chiller estimate 128.8amps for 24 hours a day, 91 days 3,690.04$
17,393.00$

90 plants
1.5lbs per plant =135 pounds 540,000.oo$
1.75lbs per plant =157 pounds 628,000.oo$
$

Clone room/mother room 2 weeks of t5, 75.oo$
20x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 18 hours a day for 7 days 327.6o$
90x1000hps @.13$ an hour, 18 hours a day for 21 days 4,422.00$
.13$ an hour for 10 weeks (indica sativa blend) 9820.00$
AC 65 amps for 24 hours a day for 7 days, 141.96
AC 193.2 amps 24 hours a day for 91 days 5,394.00$
Water chiller estimate,193.2 amps 24 hours a day for 91 days 5,394.00$
25,573.oo

[alfonso2002]

Hi Mimbres Dam you have this all figured out

[MimbresValley]

Yes I do, and for a 60 plant setup that would be about 1800 gallons of nutrients solution,
I actually figure out how much everything costs, some folks will just throw out numbers, with no explanation of how they got there, a perfect example is madsativa(no offence bro). in all my numbers I take into consideration, electricity(for everything used for the grow), and nutrients.

Madsativa says its 2000,00$ for AN nutrients for a season, but he doesn't say how many plants, how they are grown, how much the final harvest is, etc.

[BuddingHopeNM]

This thread is just amazing.

[alfonso2002]

Just trying to figure why our meds are so high priced. Are your costs anything like that or production rate? can't remember for sure but were you the one that had posted obout what was needed to start co-ops?

[MimbresValley]

This thread is just amazing.

Most people have no idea how much cannabis production should cost, and everyone wants to put in their own .2$
LOL



Have any of you guys ever heard of jorge cervantes???( the worlds most well known grower!!)

I scanned page 157,158 of his book "indoor marijuana horticulture, the cannabis grow bible"
ON PAGE 157-160
George Cervantes shows how it only costs 300.00$ to grow a pound of cannabis indoors,
If you don't believe me, go down to your local book store, and take a look at his book.


Maybe it costs MadSativa 1,000.00$ to grow a pound, it might even cost someone who has no idea what they are doing 2,000.00$ to produce a pound.
but for people who know what they are doing, it should not cost more than 300.00$ to produce a pound of top notch cannabis!

[MimbresValley]

Here are the pages directly from Jorge Cervantes book,

Seems people want to argue with me about how much it costs to produce cannabis. If you still want to disagree with me, you have to disagree with the worlds most well known & respected grower.

Apparently Jorge Cervantes is in "makebelive land" like myself, or maybe it is you who is in "makebelive" land MadSativa.
I mean I have the worlds best grower, supporting my statement and numbers, that it only costs 300.00$ to produce a pound.

What do you have to support you vastly inflated numbers>?

I didn't want to embarrass you like this Mads, but if you are going suggest that I am in make believe land, or I somehow am smudging the numbers, then I will prove you 100% wrong.

Peace:thumbsup:




1 (http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a402/ezmedmj/1.jpg)

2 (http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a402/ezmedmj/2.jpg)

3 (http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a402/ezmedmj/3.jpg)

[MadSativa]

dude Jorge Cervantes has even said he is in a make-believe land of sorts hence the name he gave him self Jorge Cervantes. the guy has short white hair his whole Jorge Cervantes thing is a character he made to not get prosecuted in Spain. yes what says is valid but he is not the worlds most known grower that is just what high times says. and high times for the past 10 years is kind of lame, they pick strains that suck in there top 10, they leave out props where they are due, hell they give credit to the wrong people sometimes when it comes to medical. some new growers you might want to look at are arjian and Franco at green house, Soma over at Soma seeds, the THSeeds crew are still in the game even after starting it back in the g13 , bubblegum days. but one to really look at is urban grower and brown dirt warrior these 2 guys are the most know growers in the world right now, since brndirts movie cam out and now part 2 is out. great movie buy the way I haven't seen part 2 but I am a big fan.

I know you have to have seen the show, "only show that will show you how to grow 2 pounds per light" if not look at urban grower.com remo is a entertaining guy and they know there shit, in all the medical rooms they show none of them say yeah I grow a pound for $300 and they live in Canada where everything is cheaper.

Small thought a co2 system is cheep to run but to buy one is in the 1,000s same with a hydro system

and trust me main you don't have the power to embarrass me this is the Internets not the forum of god.

[MadSativa]

Yes I do, and for a 60 plant setup that would be about 1800 gallons of nutrients solution,
I actually figure out how much everything costs, some folks will just throw out numbers, with no explanation of how they got there, a perfect example is madsativa(no offence bro). in all my numbers I take into consideration, electricity(for everything used for the grow), and nutrients.

Madsativa says its 2000,00$ for AN nutrients for a season, but he doesn't say how many plants, how they are grown, how much the final harvest is, etc.

I don't have too everyone here knows how to estimate and do math we all pay the bill at the end of the month, you give yourself allot of credit for doing things that are done for you, producers are allowed 100 plants total, individual patients are allowed 4 plants flower, is that the info your looking for this is what your mad about the fact that you should know this. in all my numbers , numbers, numbers, you say this in every post like no one can do arithmetic, don't mean nuthing. when you grow big big prices are what comes out of it, and having bud at wall mart is far off caseu with prices like your talking that is where they would have to put herb cause its the only building that can hold the amount their going to need for everyone wanting their $300 pounds. one simple look at Cali will let you know the future of medical here, one look and we can avoid allot of the problems and get allot of the answers. and that is my 2 cents

[BuddingHopeNM]

Last post for me on this one -

Please pay for my
Welder
Gates
RO Units
Pumps (lots of em)
Hydro Units (lots of em)
15k+ watts of lights
Greenhouses (several of them)
Propane
Propane heaters
Weed blocker
Dog food (for 10, not just one)
Building materials - plywood/2x4s/2x6s
Fasteners
Mig - wire
Argon
Fuel for vehicles
Fuel to pull big trailers
1000s of cinder blocks (understand that you can't carry all at once either - several trips)
re-bar
concrete (lots of it)
security cameras
Metal doors
motion detectors
emergency dialers
alarms
fuel for backhoe
fuel for tractor
concrete forms
timers/controllers
pots
soil
soilless media
tele svc
DSL
power bill
water bill
vehicles for delivery
fuel for delivery vehicles (nm is rural)
registration
insurance
health insurance
labor
misc metal supplies
chop saws
grinder
serious wiring - serious wiring
webspace
computers/laptops
domain
.44 per postage stamp (multiply away)
paper
pens
phones
Grow logs
accountant(s)
legal representation



and everything up above, i want the best of the best because I am growing medical for the great patients of the great state of NM. What is odd is that I get hundreds of emails from patients and they are all sooooo nice. Not once have I gotten a bad or nasty email. Its just so odd that such negative things are said on here about producers. MV, you should get a producers license. If you don't, you are just wasting everyones time.

did i forget 35% federal tax? (noone EVER mentions this)
7% to DOH (which i will never whine about)
Lets not forget the assistance program and possible donation to the neediest patients (which will be maximized)

Thats not even all either. I'm sure theres a bunch I can't think of. Alot of the expenses up there don't really even pertain to growing. As a person who has experience, PLEASE understand and take it from me...growing for yourself or "on the side" or hobby or whatever you want to call it ------ totally different from producing for hundreds of sick patients where quality is of the utmost importance. If you think its the same thing - wrong.

And if you can't mix cement or weld like a champ - don't forget good ole labor. I don't know how others are doing it up, but at Budding Hope, we are doing the best we can - and I am inclined to believe that we are doing pretty good and doing this RIGHT. And patients, please understand that the MAJORITY of active producers currently licensed aren't even 6 months old. Registration for BH will begin middle of this month.

It took BH and most of the producers over a year to be licensed. The rest took even longer. Growing is only about 50% of the picture. The rest you can't even imagine until you are in the situation. Alot we haven't even encountered yet either.

[MimbresValley]

.................

[MimbresValley]

Last post for me on this one -

Please pay for my
Welder
Gates
RO Units
Pumps (lots of em)
Hydro Units (lots of em)
15k+ watts of lights
Greenhouses (several of them)
Propane
Propane heaters
Weed blocker
Dog food (for 10, not just one)
Building materials - plywood/2x4s/2x6s
Fasteners
Mig - wire
Argon
Fuel for vehicles
Fuel to pull big trailers
1000s of cinder blocks (understand that you can't carry all at once either - several trips)
re-bar
concrete (lots of it)
security cameras
Metal doors
motion detectors
emergency dialers
alarms
fuel for backhoe
fuel for tractor
concrete forms
timers/controllers
pots
soil
soilless media
tele svc
DSL
power bill
water bill
vehicles for delivery
fuel for delivery vehicles (nm is rural)
registration
insurance
health insurance
labor
misc metal supplies
chop saws
grinder
serious wiring - serious wiring
webspace
computers/laptops
domain
.44 per postage stamp (multiply away)
paper
pens
phones
Grow logs
accountant(s)
legal representation



and everything up above, i want the best of the best because I am growing medical for the great patients of the great state of NM. What is odd is that I get hundreds of emails from patients and they are all sooooo nice. Not once have I gotten a bad or nasty email. Its just so odd that such negative things are said on here about producers. MV, you should get a producers license. If you don't, you are just wasting everyones time.

did i forget 35% federal tax? (noone EVER mentions this)
7% to DOH (which i will never whine about)
Lets not forget the assistance program and possible donation to the neediest patients (which will be maximized)

Thats not even all either. I'm sure theres a bunch I can't think of. Alot of the expenses up there don't really even pertain to growing. As a person who has experience, PLEASE understand and take it from me...growing for yourself or "on the side" or hobby or whatever you want to call it ------ totally different from producing for hundreds of sick patients where quality is of the utmost importance. If you think its the same thing - wrong.

And if you can't mix cement or weld like a champ - don't forget good ole labor. I don't know how others are doing it up, but at Budding Hope, we are doing the best we can - and I am inclined to believe that we are doing pretty good and doing this RIGHT. And patients, please understand that the MAJORITY of active producers currently licensed aren't even 6 months old. Registration for BH will begin middle of this month.

It took BH and most of the producers over a year to be licensed. The rest took even longer. Growing is only about 50% of the picture. The rest you can't even imagine until you are in the situation. Alot we haven't even encountered yet either.

Would you mind helping me out with some prices next to the long list you gave out?

So where did you get your experience growing for hundreds of patients, if you dont mind me asking?

I didnt realize the producers were building places from scratch, concrete, cinder blocks, welders, etc...
I figured they would just rent a warehouse, or a suitable building, glad to know you guys want the best of the best.

Looking at that extensive list, you have soil, soiless mix, RO units, hydroponic systems, so how many type of systems are you guys running?

And you also have 15000watts of light, and greenhouses. that sounds like quite the setup. whats the backhoes for? Do you have an outdoor setup as well?

[BuddingHopeNM]

We have alot going on :)

Lets just say one thing leads to another.

I didn't say we had experience growing medical for hundreds of patients. We have experience in large non cannabis greenhouse operations - though my personal grow experience is with cannabis. I was just saying the producing/growing/distribution situation is completely different from a smaller scale operation that most medical growers are used to. Its not impossible - Its not 'difficult' - but it is a much different animal than just a few lights x cost of power. Of course different producers have different plans. Can't and won't speak on their part. I can only speak about Budding Hope. I am only here to help.

[coolslayer]

just something I have noticed the state and the government is trying to segregate us from the rest of the populous and even each other (cardholders). it is easier to conquer when you foe is divided. simple to evade this is to not divide in fact these times are times for card holders to get together better, this is happening in Cali right now, and they are making an effort to put out their own propaganda effort and have even gotten a place on the ballot to legalize for recreational use not just medical.

the nation is now closer to 50% medical and there is still the question of is it medicine, that is the crime right their when the truth stares you in the face and you denied the truth. that is what a little over 50% of the nation is doing now, but even 10 years ago they had a way bigger lead and now were close to 50-50 soon the truth will pull more toward the light but not if we all wait for them to come to the light

Enjoying your recent posts greatly.......please contact me through email,my contact info is in my profile here.

[MimbresValley]

My friends .2$ on the subject.

""NM patients........if you want to see what being a complacent patient will get you, look to your north @ our program(Colorado). There are reportedly 750 patients in my county alone yet I and a select few others are the only ones who willstand up in Public (it's on community TV here!) and speak out.

I personally think many patients down yer way have been hoodwinked into thinking the "producert' model is set up FOR THEM and not for PROFIT for those running such ops.

We would ALL love to see more reasonably priced meds...but in reality ANYTIME you buy goods from a BUSINESS you are paying for the product AND whatever it takes to offer the product....which in this case and in the case of the "Centers" here who RETAIL MMJ from storefronts includes the cost of growing the product, wages, rents, and all other costs that are simple PASSED ON to the patient.

Growing your own IS and WILL ALWAYS BE the answer."":thumbsup:

[MimbresValley]

.... As a person who has experience, PLEASE understand and take it from me...growing for yourself or "on the side" or hobby or whatever you want to call it ------ totally different from producing for hundreds of sick patients where quality is of the utmost importance. If you think its the same thing - wrong.....



PLEASE understand this, we both have experience, I have been growing 8 years, and was a caregiver to several patients over many years out in hawaii.


....
.....I didn't say we had experience growing medical for hundreds of patients. We have experience in large non cannabis greenhouse operations - though my personal grow experience is with cannabis.... ..






You want me to take it from you, because you have "experience",to me that sounds like your are implying you know what you are talking about when it comes to producing for hundreds of patients.

So if you have not grown for hundreds of patients, where is your experience coming from, from your personal growing experience??
I do not see whats different than about your personal growing experiences and mine.:wtf:

[BuddingHopeNM]

As I type, we are producing for hundreds of patients. We are putting systems and procedures in place to enable us to do this at a professional level. It hasn't been but three months, but yes, I can tell you it is very different. As a person who has discussed the situation with other producers, it is very different because there are unforseen challenges.

You have great experience. You should write up a plan, create a non profit and apply for producership or a co-op. You can style it any way you like.

I am not here to give life stories on grow experience. We are remaining subtle and professional. We are here to help the patients of New Mexico.

And I am not implying. I am not assuming. When I say that large scale professional is different from a few thousand watts in a private room in your home...it is because it is.

I have to get back to work. If you have anything constructive, please email me and we can implement them. If you are looking for a board position, email me and we can meet. If you are looking to help the patients of New Mexico, start a non profit and apply to become a producer and help the patients. Sounds like you know the ropes, just gotta get in there.

[MimbresValley]

I already have all the paperwork, have copies of two Approved producers applications, I just haven't decided if I want to throw my hat in the ring.


I get the feeling buddinghope you think the only way to make a change is to become a producer myself, I got to tell you, thats simply not the case. I am not trying to make money from sick folks, help them yes, take there last dollar, no.


It only takes one person to make a big change, don't ever forget that.

If I can help/force the producers to lower their prices even by half, then I will have helped more people in NM than if I started a production facility, the town I live in only has 8 patients who do not have PPL,(accordig to the DOH release earlier this year).

[oldhaole]

Pardon my ignorance. Have no dog in this fight.

One simple qustion. Must you produce only indoor? I've been to your state. Outdoor looked doable to me? What's keeping you all inside?

[MimbresValley]

If anyone out there thinks one person can not make a difference, look at Stormy Ray from Oregon.

I personally do not agree with her 100% on her policies, but I have talked to several patients from Orgeon who do, several that don't.
It seems most patients support, most growers do not.
Go to the California section of any of the cannabis forums, most people who smoke pot want it legalized, but talk to some growers, I would say about 70-80%% of Californian growers want it to stay illegal, otherwise they may possibly loose their cash cow.


But regardless, Fellow Patients of NM, Don't ever count out your voice in making a change.



Ending the Medical Marijuana Gold Rush
by Stormy Ray

"As a patient, I know what it is like to suffer needlessly. As a mother, I know that disabilities and sickness strike indiscriminately. As a Grandmother, I know we must protect this valuable medicine so it will be available for all of us. As a citizen, I stand up because I care.

Many Oregonians have thanked me for my involvement in passage of last yearâ??s Senate Bill 1085, which amended and clarified Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Program. I have also been harshly criticized for helping to remove the ambiguities within our law. The most important change SB-1085 made was giving the ownership of all medical marijuana produced, and marijuana plants grown, exclusively to the OMMP patient. The Oregon Medical Marijuana Act still allows patients to grow their own medicine and assign a caregiver to help them. A patient can assign their grow site card to their own location, the location of their caregiver, and now, to a person responsible for their grow site location. Patients can reimburse their caregiver or grower for the actual cost of electricity and garden supplies used to produce their medicine. Caregiver and growers must work on a voluntary basisâ??they cannot charge or be compensated for their time or labor. And finally, caregivers and growers must surrender all medicine and plants to their patient upon request.

This is a good law, given what we are up against with current federal law. I believe that, for our program to have any credibility, we must separate the issue of medical marijuana from the legalization of marijuana. Over the last six years, I have stood against many attempts to take this program away from patients. This includes the 2004 ballot initiative Measure 33 that would have established dispensaries in Oregon. Giving ownership of the medicine to the caregivers and growers would have caused the same problems for us that it is causing in California, problems that threaten the survival of the program.

Although I strongly believe marijuana laws need to be revisited so that we can stop putting people in jail for something that should not be a crime, I cannot condone using sick and disabled people as pawns in this war on drugs.

It is my belief that there needs to be a way for all patients to access medical marijuana, but dispensaries like in California are not the answer. Prohibition and the black market have increased the street price of marijuana beyond what most patients can afford. As long as the price is artificially inflated by marijuanaâ??s prohibition, medical marijuana will never be sold at a reasonable price. California dispensaries are selling marijuana for higher prices than on the black market: a price that rivals that of gold. We need to stop the gold rush!

California dispensaries are out of control, jeopardizing medical marijuana not only in California but also for the entire United States. Many who supported medical marijuana in the past now question its validity. This cannot happen in Oregon!

During the 2005 legislative session, SB-1085 had strong bi-partisan support in both houses, and had strong support from the Oregon law enforcement community. SB-1085 created bright clear lines that both law enforcement and patients could understand.

The changes in SB-1085 preclude organizations and dispensaries from selling medical marijuana. Under Oregon law, only patients and their caregivers/growers are protected by the OMMP. Organizations and businesses cannot be registered cardholders and can never possess or control medical marijuana.

Patients can freely â??giveâ?� their excess medical marijuana away to other cardholders, but it remains illegal to sell marijuana to anyone in Oregon. Caregivers cannot decide how much medical marijuana their patients will receive from a harvest or decide where the excess medication will go. Caregivers should never charge their patients for their medicine by the ounce. Itâ??s against the law! All medicine belongs to the patient.

Medical marijuana has medicinal properties that are unlike all other medications. One patient experience I had just after measure 67 passed illustrates how badly this medicine is needed! A woman called and set an appointment for her husband who has cancer. They rescheduled their appointment because on the way over they ended up at the hospital. When I opened my hotel door, I wasnâ??t prepared for this man who was a ghastly grey color. Iâ??d never seen that color on a living body. His wife helped him to the nearest seat in the room. The intensity and desperation was like a heavy fog. I handed him a small pipe. He inhaled. I witnessed color come back into his face as he gave the â??Honey Iâ??m OKâ?� glances to his concerned wife as his breathing improved. I witnessed the tearful relief in her eyes as she saw his glances. This man regained his quality of life and was even able to return to his Sunday school class duties.

Medical marijuana must be protected for all of us because of the relief it gives to so many. No matter who you are, a sickness or disability can happen to you or to a loved one. Medical marijuana may not be a cure, but for over 14,000 registered Oregon Medical Marijuana Program patients, it means a better quality of life.

I would like to give a special thank you to Oregon caregivers and growers who selflessly help patients grow a garden and have the medicine they need. I would also like to invite anyone that would like to help a patient with their garden to become a part of this wonderful program.

Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Act protects caregivers and growers so they can help registered patients. Caregivers and growers can possess marijuana and have a medical marijuana garden at their location.

If you would like more information about Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Program or about becoming a registered cardholder or caregiver, please contact the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation at 503-587-7434, or visit our web site at Stormy Ray Cardholders' Foundation (http://www.stormyray.org)
God Bless Oregon for this great program!

Stormy Ray has been active in the movement to legalize marijuana for the purposes of medical treatment for over a decade in Oregon. She was a Co-Chief Petitioner for Measure 67 that became the Oregon Medical Marijuana Act (OMMA) in 1998. The Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation is a non-profit Oregon medical marijuana information and support organization dedicated to helping patients utilize this law. Stormy currently serves on the OMMPâ??s Advisory Committee on Medical Marijuana. Stormy has represented â??patientsâ?� on the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program (OMMP) Advisory Committee convened 3-23-06. She has served on the Oregon State Rehabilitation Advisory Council for two Governors, and the Federal Disabilities Determination Advisory Board for four years. As president of Malheur Butte Productions, a non-profit disabilities awareness organization, Stormy worked to help improve access, inclusion, and awareness for Oregonians with disabilities. She is currently the president of the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation (SRCF). As a non-profit, the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation is successfully helping Oregonians understand what this medicine means to patients."

[alfonso2002]

nice post hope patients in NM get the message and don't just sit idle.

[MimbresValley]

last question BuddingHope.

Since most of the costs you listed are initial startup costs, after a year or two of operation, wouldn't it seem logical the price could be dropped significantly?
For instance if you buy a ballast, most ballast have a 5 year warranty, and you probably wont have to buy ballasts again, for at least 5years, most likely ten years,( i have had a ballast for 8 years now, still works great)
after all your welding is done, and your facility is done, you wont be doing constant construction, etc..

[alfonso2002]

Pardon my ignorance. Have no dog in this fight.

One simple qustion. Must you produce only indoor? I've been to your state. Outdoor looked doable to me? What's keeping you all inside?

here are the requirements http://www.health.state.nm.us/idb/medicalcannabis/Patient%20Production%20Application%206-28-10.pdf

[BuddingHopeNM]

Most certainly. However, its not about producers setting the price. There is a market price. Its sad. But yes there is a market price. Producers don't 'set' it. DOH doesn't 'set' it. The state doesn't 'set' it. Simple supply and demand sets it. Lets say all producers were to sell at 5.00 per gram. Patients would end up reselling it at 3x the cost....simply because there is not enough supply and too much demand. If we were to do that, DEA would be all over us. And that is the truth.

By becoming a producer, you would help a whole lot more people as opposed to complaining about the market price. When you grow your own, you are out of the market. When you buy or sell, you are part of the market.

If you have some Alan Greenspan skill at affecting the cannabis market that noone else knows, by all means have at it. But by petitioning and telling the DOH to 'set' the market price, that will absolutely never happen due to the simple economics of supply and demand. Add supply = lower prices. This is how you affect the market:

"Until the removal of cannabis from Schedule I drug status, reasonable and rational drug policy is adopted federally, more producers are licensed, the plant count is raised from 95, the federal stance on taxation on medical production and distribution facilities are agreed upon, market prices cannot be easily reduced."

Cannabis market is very localized because of the nature of cannabis. You likely aren't ingesting cannabis from 800+ miles away like we do toilet paper/food/tvs. Heck, everything we got nowadays is made in China. So that is why you see different prices in colorado and california. They are their own market. Markets don't necessarily take forever to change, but they require more than vocal persistence. They require action. More producers - more patients - more caregivers(that can actually tend plants) - larger plant limits - removal of Schedule I status - Federal acknowlegment of medical value - Federal Fiscal and taxation reform.

Look at colorado. Colorado blew up wild wild west. Thats why prices are what they are. Hopefully New Mexico can find some kind of happy - pun intended - medium. New Mexico program is great - but it is very young and it is not big enough to tackle the supply and demand of cannabis in New Mexico. When it does become big enough, you will surely see the market price go down. Thats the way markets work.

And yes, you should throw your hat in. Throw every hat you have. BH hasn't sold an ounce - literally. But it sure is very heartwarming to correspond with such nice patients and people in the program. We are here to help and we want to do this TOGETHER!:hippy:

[deserthealer]

Pardon my ignorance. Have no dog in this fight.

One simple qustion. Must you produce only indoor? I've been to your state. Outdoor looked doable to me? What's keeping you all inside?

Outdoor grows are do-able. I had 3 plants in a backyard garden, urban residential neighborhood. High cement block walls. Pit bull.

Cost? I guess I could say the price of a bag of potting soil, since they were temporarily in pots.

It was a great experience for a first legal grow. :) And the end result is :D :D :D

[DemingNonProfit]

You just have to look to California or Colorado to see how incredibly flawed your logic is, prices in California have stayed the same at the compassion clubs since 215 was first passed many many years ago. even though wholesale prices from growers have fallen tremendously.

You personally said the producers are not setting the price, they are using the current market price, the current market price IS INFLATED DUE TO CANNABIS PROHIBITION, and its being a Black Market Item.

And you say the current market price is sad, so are you agreeing it should be lowered, and the prices currently being charged are ridiculous?



You can have hundreds upon hundreds of producers like California or a handful like here, regardless prices will not come down when people are getting rich.

Also your reselling logic is full of holes, what is preventing me from reselling the cannabis I produce with my PPL, when its only costing me 300.00$ a pound to produce? What is perventing Deserthealer from selling her medicine, since she only used soil and nutrients, she could turn a huge profit.

I do not think the DOH should let people suffer just incase one person might resale it, I totally disagree, why would the DOH let people have PPls, if they were so worried about patients reselling. That makes absolutely no sense.

Stormy Ray has had an "Allan Greenspan" type effect on the cannabis market it oregon, is that why you keep telling Mimbres Valley to become a producer and not an activist, cause you are worried he will kill your cash cow?

Google Stormy Ray, I also do not agree with her policies totally, but MV is totally right about one person being able to make a huge change.


BuddingHope I have read your posts you seem like you really are interested in helping the patients of NM, maybe you are not trying to cash in on the folks of NM.
Why you are so against lowering prices for sick patients, I have no idea!

But to sit here and tell people that prices will come down once there are more producers is just rubbish. Especially when the producers are all in a "guild" with the same people serving on multiple boards.
That is not a free market, that is a monopoly.

[DemingNonProfit]

Im going to say this again,

What is preventing me from reselling the cannabis I produce with my PPL, when its only costing me 300.00$ a pound to produce? What is perventing Deserthealer from selling her medicine, since she only used soil and nutrients, she could turn a huge profit.

I do not think the DOH should let people suffer just incase one person might resale it, I totally disagree, why would the DOH let people have PPls, if they were so worried about patients reselling. That makes absolutely no sense.

[BuddingHopeNM]

I don't have time to argue economics. I never said I was against lowering prices. Plant limit for patients is "adequate supply", not abundant supply. How can you have a monopoly when you have a 95 plant limit?? There are growers out there with 4-10 times the amount of plants producers have. Hope your application goes well. Budding Hope is here to help patients in any capacity. Shoot me an email. That is all. :thumbsup:

[DemingNonProfit]

You bring up economics, and when I lay your misguided ideas to rest of more producers equaling lower prices, you no longer have time to talk about it, ok:thumbsup:


You said" Lets say all producers were to sell at 5.00 per gram. Patients would end up reselling it at 3x the cost....simply because there is not enough supply and too much demand. If we were to do that, DEA would be all over us. And that is the truth."

Bro that is a lie, and its MAKES NO SENSE!

Would you care to touch on what is preventing me from reselling the cannabis I produce with my PPL, when its only costing me 300.00$ a pound to produce? What is perventing Deserthealer from selling her medicine, since she only used soil and nutrients, she could turn a huge profit.

I do not think the DOH want to keep the prices sky high just incase one person might resale it, I totally disagree, why would the DOH let people have PPls, if they were so worried about patients reselling. That makes absolutely no sense.
NO SENSE!



MV also said"
So lets say it costs 3,000.00$ to produce a pound of cannabis after all the expenses are taken into consideration, rental space, gas, security, payroll, that a producer might run into.
All the things that I do not have to deal with as a personal producer.

If they harvest 50 pounds off their 95 plants ever 4 months, the company would still be making 141,120.00$ every 4 months, charging 13.00$ a gram.

That is still a profit of 141,120.00$ every 4 months, that is 423,600.00$ dollars a year profit.
That should more than cover all start up costs associated with getting the company up and running.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
talk about hitting the nail on the head!

[medical420mama]

Prices need to drop yes
we all need to ban together yes
who fucking cares if the producers have a guild let them come together and work as a team rather then trying to compete. I personally feel that makes for a much friendlier environment.
We all are different, we eat, shower,dress, talk ,learn,sleep,grow, etc differently so sure one guy can grow a pound for $300 awesome bravo for you dude. We got the point. All i have to say is WTF are we fighting about there are real people (paitients) out there and i am one that have ZERO medication and Plants that are no where near ready to flower and we cant afford to buy 3 gm worth of medication. Right now i am shit out of luck i have enough medication to last till saturday (maybe) and every single one of my plants died. I have no friggin clue what happen. I am going to pop some mystery seeds and pray that they take. The point i am trying to make is that instead of us fighting over who has the best growing method how about we all paitients, producers, and advocates need to come together and figure out a solution. Stop the fighting act like grown ups and come up with a solution not another problem. Im done thats my 2 cents.

Besides this post was not intended to be a fight what i originally posted has nothing to do with what we are all fighting about. I never even did get my question answered which is ok becasue i figured it out on my own.

[PatientNM]

I already have all the paperwork, have copies of two Approved producers applications, I just haven't decided if I want to throw my hat in the ring.


I get the feeling buddinghope you think the only way to make a change is to become a producer myself, I got to tell you, thats simply not the case. I am not trying to make money from sick folks, help them yes, take there last dollar, no.


It only takes one person to make a big change, don't ever forget that.

If I can help/force the producers to lower their prices even by half, then I will have helped more people in NM than if I started a production facility, the town I live in only has 8 patients who do not have PPL,(accordig to the DOH release earlier this year).

It takes a small person to bitch and complain and a bigger person to actually DO something. Mimsy, until you man up and at the very least apply for a license you are just flapping your pie whole and wasting time. The chip you have on shoulder with the producers is obvious. What you are doing better then any of the producers has yet to be seen. Please, do show us Mimsy, show all of us. Don't just show us little spread sheets, pictures of other folks grows, long quotes from other people's websites or scans from books.... No Mimsy, lets see some REAL proof you actually know what you are talking about.

MAN-UP AND BRING THE $300 A POUND
MEDICAL GRADE CANNABIS TO THIS MARKET!!!

IF YOU CANNOT OR WILL NOT THEN
I GUESS WE WILL HAVE OUR ANSWER AFTER ALL!
:thumbsup:
WHAT WILL IT BE MIMSY???

[DemingNonProfit]

I do not know what MV is doing, But I personally am going the Stormy Ray way, Have been in contact with her, she is going to help get the ball rolling down here in NM.:thumbsup:
And what producer do you work for PatientNM?

[DemingNonProfit]

Also PatientNM
If you look I was the first one to put up the numbers for the 300.00$ pound.
I was not saying that is how much the producers should charge, Just how much it costs me to grow personally, just taking electricity and nutrients into consideration.
When someone asked deserthearler how much she spent for her grow, she said a bag of soil.

As a fellow patient how how much would you estimate it cost you to grow your own meds? I would really like to hear your numbers???????????????????

I never said the producers should be offereing 300.00$lbs
I don't think MV did either, though I could be wrong, have not really been following along lately.

[DemingNonProfit]

" Caregiver and growers must work on a voluntary basisâ??they cannot charge or be compensated for their time or labor. And finally, caregivers and growers must surrender all medicine and plants to their patient upon request."

That is the Stormy Ray way, its either one of two extremes have the producers with all the say, or the patients with all the say.

I would rather be somewhere in the middle, but I doubt that will happen, so yeah, I would support Stormy Rays model, the whole point of this program is the patients of NM, not the producers.

[medical420mama]

[B]
the whole point of this program is the patients of NM, not the producers.

I agree this program was not setup for the producers it was setup for us. So i think all of you that think you can do things better and more cost effective then by all means do it. I chose to grow for myself becasue i cant afford to purchase. So maybe instead of us fighting about lowering prices why dont we start educating the paitients that cant grow becasue they dont know how or helping them find someone to grow for them. They only way there will be a constiant supply is if we stop purchasing. Even if 3/4 of us grew that is 3/4 of the producers medication that is not purchased. Now you figure if they went from selling the product in a matter of weeks to not selling all of it and having alot left over, and then you realize bills are coming in and since the money you brought in wasnt the same as last month they are gonna discount medication so the can bring in the money needed to pay the bills. That is all IMO and dont want to start a fight i just want to help us paitients. I dont have the money or the expierence to become a producer or i would so the only way i can help is by giving my advice.

Lets grow our own and help educate the others.

[MimbresValley]

First off MedicalMama, if you are in the southern half of the state, I will help you with whatever you need. No charge, and sorry for clogging up your thread.

Yeah, and It takes even a smaller man to take someones last bit of money PatientNM.

You Have no idea what I do with my time, you assume I am not active in trying to make a change because I have not applied to become a producer, that is far from the truth. And the only reason you know I havnt applied to be a producer, is I mentioned it in a previous post.

I know when you see comments like " Caregiver and growers must work on a voluntary basisâ??they cannot charge or be compensated for their time or labor.....", you see your cash cow slipping away, and so you get angry, start saying things like "pie whole".

I am trying to change things on a STATE LEVEL. Sorry if that is out of your comprehension range, or effects your pocket book.
( If you don't understand state level, read the article I am enclosing at the bottom of this reply)


I will start a grow log next week when I get back from vacation to help what patients who are growing currently but having problems. Feel free to follow along.

And When the heck did I say producers should only charge 300.00$ a pound for cannabis produced indoors?, I think the producers should be reasonably compensated for their work. But as Deming said if I had to choose between two extremes, One where the Producers have all the power, and One where the Patients have all the power, I will go with the latter every single time. Both have pitfalls, but the latter is better aimed at helping the sick patients of our state.

I showed what it costs me to produce my meds, I listed my basic expenses of eletric, gas, and nutrients, nothing else. I did not include cost of rent, as I live in a 1500sq foot house and my grow room only takes up less than 50 of those sq feet, shall I figure in 1/15 of my rent as well to make my numbers more accurate?


Outdoor growers with PPL's can grow a pound of cannabis for waaay less than 300.00$, Period!

HOW MUCH DOES IT COST YOU TO GROW YOU MEDS PatientNM?


I included a spreadsheet showing my personal costs, and a published article from a world respected grower. I am also collecting info from all published cannabis authors on average prices to grow cannabis indoors, and I will be forwarding that along to the DOH.

You have Furnished NOTHING to disprove the figures I posted, Deming Posted, or Jorge Cervantes article, I also am linking another book demonstrating how very possible it is to produce a pound of cannabis indoors for less than 300.00$, (give you another respected world renowed cannabis author to try and discredit:clap:)

See more Buds has a great book, called BUDS FOR LESS, GROW 8 OUNCES OF CANNABIS FOR LESS THAN 100.00$
With a day by day break down, and every single cost broken down.
This book is perfect for any MJ patient who is just starting to grow for their first time, or are having problems with their plants, or start up costs.

And again I ask How much is it costing you personally to grow your own meds? lets see Your cost breakdown!

And to make things simpler for you in your attempt to discredit people.

, here is a free copy of book, and about 25 other cannabis related books to discredit as well.
ALL FOR FREE.

Growing Marijuana (download torrent) - TPB (http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4881798/Growing_Marijuana)



Here is the previously mentioned article.

Ending the Medical Marijuana Gold Rush
by Stormy Ray

As a patient, I know what it is like to suffer needlessly. As a mother, I know that disabilities and sickness strike indiscriminately. As a Grandmother, I know we must protect this valuable medicine so it will be available for all of us. As a citizen, I stand up because I care.

Many Oregonians have thanked me for my involvement in passage of last yearâ??s Senate Bill 1085, which amended and clarified Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Program. I have also been harshly criticized for helping to remove the ambiguities within our law. The most important change SB-1085 made was giving the ownership of all medical marijuana produced, and marijuana plants grown, exclusively to the OMMP patient. The Oregon Medical Marijuana Act still allows patients to grow their own medicine and assign a caregiver to help them. A patient can assign their grow site card to their own location, the location of their caregiver, and now, to a person responsible for their grow site location. Patients can reimburse their caregiver or grower for the actual cost of electricity and garden supplies used to produce their medicine. Caregiver and growers must work on a voluntary basisâ??they cannot charge or be compensated for their time or labor. And finally, caregivers and growers must surrender all medicine and plants to their patient upon request.

This is a good law, given what we are up against with current federal law. I believe that, for our program to have any credibility, we must separate the issue of medical marijuana from the legalization of marijuana. Over the last six years, I have stood against many attempts to take this program away from patients. This includes the 2004 ballot initiative Measure 33 that would have established dispensaries in Oregon. Giving ownership of the medicine to the caregivers and growers would have caused the same problems for us that it is causing in California, problems that threaten the survival of the program.

Although I strongly believe marijuana laws need to be revisited so that we can stop putting people in jail for something that should not be a crime, I cannot condone using sick and disabled people as pawns in this war on drugs.

It is my belief that there needs to be a way for all patients to access medical marijuana, but dispensaries like in California are not the answer. Prohibition and the black market have increased the street price of marijuana beyond what most patients can afford. As long as the price is artificially inflated by marijuanaâ??s prohibition, medical marijuana will never be sold at a reasonable price. California dispensaries are selling marijuana for higher prices than on the black market: a price that rivals that of gold. We need to stop the gold rush!

California dispensaries are out of control, jeopardizing medical marijuana not only in California but also for the entire United States. Many who supported medical marijuana in the past now question its validity. This cannot happen in Oregon!

During the 2005 legislative session, SB-1085 had strong bi-partisan support in both houses, and had strong support from the Oregon law enforcement community. SB-1085 created bright clear lines that both law enforcement and patients could understand.

The changes in SB-1085 preclude organizations and dispensaries from selling medical marijuana. Under Oregon law, only patients and their caregivers/growers are protected by the OMMP. Organizations and businesses cannot be registered cardholders and can never possess or control medical marijuana.

Patients can freely â??giveâ?� their excess medical marijuana away to other cardholders, but it remains illegal to sell marijuana to anyone in Oregon. Caregivers cannot decide how much medical marijuana their patients will receive from a harvest or decide where the excess medication will go. Caregivers should never charge their patients for their medicine by the ounce. Itâ??s against the law! All medicine belongs to the patient.

Medical marijuana has medicinal properties that are unlike all other medications. One patient experience I had just after measure 67 passed illustrates how badly this medicine is needed! A woman called and set an appointment for her husband who has cancer. They rescheduled their appointment because on the way over they ended up at the hospital. When I opened my hotel door, I wasnâ??t prepared for this man who was a ghastly grey color. Iâ??d never seen that color on a living body. His wife helped him to the nearest seat in the room. The intensity and desperation was like a heavy fog. I handed him a small pipe. He inhaled. I witnessed color come back into his face as he gave the â??Honey Iâ??m OKâ?� glances to his concerned wife as his breathing improved. I witnessed the tearful relief in her eyes as she saw his glances. This man regained his quality of life and was even able to return to his Sunday school class duties.

Medical marijuana must be protected for all of us because of the relief it gives to so many. No matter who you are, a sickness or disability can happen to you or to a loved one. Medical marijuana may not be a cure, but for over 14,000 registered Oregon Medical Marijuana Program patients, it means a better quality of life.

I would like to give a special thank you to Oregon caregivers and growers who selflessly help patients grow a garden and have the medicine they need. I would also like to invite anyone that would like to help a patient with their garden to become a part of this wonderful program.

Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Act protects caregivers and growers so they can help registered patients. Caregivers and growers can possess marijuana and have a medical marijuana garden at their location.

If you would like more information about Oregonâ??s Medical Marijuana Program or about becoming a registered cardholder or caregiver, please contact the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation at 503-587-7434, or visit our web site at Stormy Ray Cardholders' Foundation
God Bless Oregon for this great program!

Stormy Ray has been active in the movement to legalize marijuana for the purposes of medical treatment for over a decade in Oregon. She was a Co-Chief Petitioner for Measure 67 that became the Oregon Medical Marijuana Act (OMMA) in 1998. The Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation is a non-profit Oregon medical marijuana information and support organization dedicated to helping patients utilize this law. Stormy currently serves on the OMMPâ??s Advisory Committee on Medical Marijuana. Stormy has represented â??patientsâ?� on the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program (OMMP) Advisory Committee convened 3-23-06. She has served on the Oregon State Rehabilitation Advisory Council for two Governors, and the Federal Disabilities Determination Advisory Board for four years. As president of Malheur Butte Productions, a non-profit disabilities awareness organization, Stormy worked to help improve access, inclusion, and awareness for Oregonians with disabilities. She is currently the president of the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation (SRCF). As a non-profit, the Stormy Ray Cardholdersâ?? Foundation is successfully helping Oregonians understand what this medicine means to patients.

[deserthealer]

****

[MadSativa]

I personally don't know this grower but I have been watching him for a while, and he know his stuff, if some one is looking for a way a producers in cali si doing it.

He is a strictly hydro guy, but his rooms have a total of 50-350 plants, and he says he does it all buy hims self, which is completely do able and I am sure he works hard cause his work is awesome.

One thing I have just seen lately is this guys method of cloning, it seams to be one of the best method's for cloning, but is only dooable if your plant is gonna be somewhat big, since even his clones are about 6" to about 8 " tall and allot of NM growers like to flower at about 8" high. But for a big plant wow is this a new method and he has done 10s of thousands he says, and his clone room is massive and no lose so it is totally believable.

for a producer looking for a model to get to in the future (keep in mind to start a room he is working with is allot of money), that is high yielding, quick, officiant, and allot easier then hauling dirt, this guy is one to ask some questions.

one last thing I think he hangs out here in the cann.com forum, in the grow section, but I am not sure, I know I saw one of weezards posts in his videos, but the guy know his shit, and recently he broke down the Advanced nutrients and botanicare in avid and I totally agree, some of the advanced stuff has like 5 products that do the same thing it is confusing, and the high end stuff is insane as far as price but I have no idea of how good it is. But the vid cleared up allot on some things especial the bud candy and sweet additives, and I used to recommend the botanicares sweet but now I'm gonna have to tell some people to try the bud candy cause apparently it initial cost is more, but you use less so it is cheaper. any way Lotta stuff like this is interesting in his vids, his hydro grows are pretty strait forward, no CO2 in their I think hes in downtown LA so I am sure CO2 is a no no. but any way his humor is funny at times at times not but hes definitely got it going on.

check it out

YouTube - sublbc's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/sublbc)

oh and yeah this thread blew up; great thread, srry to hear about your plants, could you write down a plan that you followed, not just for us to see if we can help you but also to check record kind of for your self more for the future but while its still kind of fresh, did you put water into a old tea jug, or did you uses water jugs from wall mart, do you uses clorox in your sink, did you wash any jugs in the sink, things like this. no hurry I your seeds are doing good, their is a paper towel method and jiffy pellets and my fav is either rock-wool or rapid-rooters. Are you using filtered water, usually for seeds and clones I will used a good distilled water, aquafina or distilled from wall mart is usually good, important is pick water with no minerals adds for taste

[Washedout]

First the election,second the high priced meds,third the drought periods of no meds,and fourth(but more than likely not the last)the patients fighting with each other.Those are the four things that I have to wrap my head around before I can even plan to relocate to New Mexico I was told at the onset of my journey,that the more the merrier now I don't know. :(

[alfonso2002]

First the election,second the high priced meds,third the drought periods of no meds,and fourth(but more than likely not the last)the patients fighting with each other.Those are the four things that I have to wrap my head around before I can even plan to relocate to New Mexico I was told at the onset of my journey,that the more the merrier now I don't know. :(
Don't get discouraged New Mexico is a nice place And all will get better.
The Fignting as you call is not really fighting it is people trying to express there opinion on how to do the right thing.Alls of us do want this program to work but have different ways of thinking And how it should be done have a good day.

[medical420mama]

First off MedicalMama, if you are in the southern half of the state, I will help you with whatever you need. No charge, and sorry for clogging up your thread.



I am in rio rancho. I really do appreciate the help. They only thing i could use right now are some good seeds. I have some ok mystery seeds, but i would eventually like to get some good genetics. Does anyone know if they have approved producers to sell seeds?

[PatientNM]

Also PatientNM
If you look I was the first one to put up the numbers for the 300.00$ pound.
I was not saying that is how much the producers should charge, Just how much it costs me to grow personally, just taking electricity and nutrients into consideration.
When someone asked deserthearler how much she spent for her grow, she said a bag of soil.

As a fellow patient how how much would you estimate it cost you to grow your own meds? I would really like to hear your numbers???????????????????

I never said the producers should be offereing 300.00$lbs
I don't think MV did either, though I could be wrong, have not really been following along lately.

I spend about $1,200 annual and grow all the medication I need.

[DemingNonProfit]

Annually?
Can you be a little bit more specific.

[DemingNonProfit]

How many lights do you run, what type of lights? How much do you harvest.
what type of setup, what type of nutrients, what strains, how much electric,
You want MV to show you everything, but you cant supply even the Vaguest details to my question.:wtf:

I was very specific with my numbers, So was MV, and that article of Jorge Cervantes is pretty thorough as well.

You say, you spend 1,200.00 annually, with NO specifics, and you are complaining cause others aren't giving enough specifics, bro you seem like a real toolbox, maybe you should shut ur piehole, instead of tellings others too.:thumbsup:

[DemingNonProfit]

Wow MV you really hit the nail on the head. ...



I showed what it costs me to produce my meds, I listed my basic expenses of eletric, gas, and nutrients, nothing else. I did not include cost of rent, as I live in a 1500sq foot house and my grow room only takes up less than 50 of those sq feet, shall I figure in 1/15 of my rent as well to make my numbers more accurate?


I included a spreadsheet showing my personal costs, and a published article from a world respected grower.

You have Furnished NOTHING to disprove the figures I posted, Deming Posted, or Jorge Cervantes article, I also am linking another book demonstrating how very possible it is to produce a pound of cannabis indoors for less than 300.00$, (give you another respected world renowed cannabis author to try and discredit:clap:)

See more Buds has a great book, called BUDS FOR LESS, GROW 8 OUNCES OF CANNABIS FOR LESS THAN 100.00$
With a day by day break down, and every single cost broken down.
This book is perfect for any MJ patient who is just starting to grow for their first time, or are having problems with their plants, or start up costs.

And again I ask How much is it costing you personally to grow your own meds? lets see Your cost breakdown!

And to make things simpler for you in your attempt to discredit people.

, here is a free copy of book, and about 25 other cannabis related books to discredit as well.
ALL FOR FREE.

Growing Marijuana (download torrent) - TPB (http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4881798/Growing_Marijuana)




Good stuff man!:rasta:
Yeah if you get together 25 published cannabis giving a average of them all of how much it costs to produce indoors, I don't think the DOH, or the senate could argue with those numbers, and looking at the gold rush in cali, Im sure the leaders of NM, do not want that model.

I mean people can say your wrong, but sheer number of respected authors should sway them, thats really good thinking bro.

[MimbresValley]

I am just about to head out on my trip, just wanted to see if you had responded yet PatientNM,And wow thanks bro for that very detailed cost break down, glad I logged on to see those numbers, that was very thorough. ROFLMAO.
And if you are going to quote me, get it right, I never said anything about producers should offer 300.00$lbs, if I did directly quote me, I said 3 dollar grams, which is closer to 1,500.00$ a pound.
Thanks for wasting my time.

[coolslayer]

Hope you guys are as committed to voting for Denish as you are about arguing numbers.......

[DemingNonProfit]

I spend about $1,200 annual and grow all the medication I need.

Im waiting........

[PatientNM]

Im waiting........

Dear dumming and mimsy.... You two make me laugh sooooo much.
Your ability to copy and paste is surpassed only by your utter lack of class or tact. I missed the press release that appointed you keeper of everybody's grow stats. I didn't recall ANYONE asking for your opinion.

I thought you where going away. Please go now!!

[DemingNonProfit]

hahaha, so instead of showing the numbers, you come up with that.
Bravo!!!!

Way to sidestep the question, NMTOOLBAG

[DemingNonProfit]

And what have i copy and pasted? Show everyone here! instead of making accusations. You don't got the proof, cause you are simply a liar.
You were bitching 300.00$ pounds are not possible for someone with a PPL, so I asked to see your numbers to compare with, since you are claming it can't be done! But you cant show shit, cause you don't know shit!

lets see some REAL proof you actually know what you are talking about, when it comes to production of cannabis,NMTOOLBAG.

[slyfox339]

Does any one know of the provider for lea county I was recently appoved into the program. I was given a list on a sheet of paper but I dont see anyone from Lea county? Does anyone know the different strands and which are recommended for which sickness? Sorry so igneront never have smoked any type of medicine. Thanks for any help.

[xsnoder]

Dear dumming and mimsy.... You two make me laugh sooooo much.
Your ability to copy and paste is surpassed only by your utter lack of class or tact. I missed the press release that appointed you keeper of everybody's grow stats. I didn't recall ANYONE asking for your opinion.

I thought you where going away. Please go now!!





PatientNM
Your ability to use proper grammar would be considered a miracle. You should also stop flaming everyoneâ??s post ,or, at the very least, back your angry mouth up with some facts.

This is what I have seen ,or experienced over the last eight years and a quick look at what I feel is the obvious. PatientNM!, I am certain This break down wonâ??t vapor lock you and send you into a rage:thumbsup:
In 2002 MMJ, Everywhere in the US was $50.00 an 1/8, $100.00 a 1/4.
In 2004 it was $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2006 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2008 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2010 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 (facts taken from the street and all mmj programs/respective producers and dispensaries in the US)
I'm no brain press, rather very aware that time should have inflated that price a while back. Odd how it neither goes North or South?
Anyone should be able to step back, look at it from a economic time line and realize that the pricing is radical, was set very high a long time ago and has to come down, Not "need to come down" but must come down!
Thank you Mimbres and the rest of you for your dedication.

[alfonso2002]

PatientNM
Your ability to use proper grammar would be considered a miracle. You should also stop flaming everyoneâ??s post ,or, at the very least, back your angry mouth up with some facts.

This is what I have seen ,or experienced over the last eight years and a quick look at what I feel is the obvious. PatientNM!, I am certain This break down wonâ??t vapor lock you and send you into a rage:thumbsup:
In 2002 MMJ, Everywhere in the US was $50.00 an 1/8, $100.00 a 1/4.
In 2004 it was $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2006 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2008 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2010 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 (facts taken from the street and all mmj programs/respective producers and dispensaries in the US)
I'm no brain press, rather very aware that time should have inflated that price a while back. Odd how it neither goes North or South?
Anyone should be able to step back, look at it from a economic time line and realize that the pricing is radical, was set very high a long time ago and has to come down, Not "need to come down" but must come down!
Thank you Mimbres and the rest of you for your dedication.

Thank you xsnoder for your comments on that subject

[PatientNM]

And what have i copy and pasted? Show everyone here! instead of making accusations. You don't got the proof, cause you are simply a liar.
You were bitching 300.00$ pounds are not possible for someone with a PPL, so I asked to see your numbers to compare with, since you are claming it can't be done! But you cant show shit, cause you don't know shit!

lets see some REAL proof you actually know what you are talking about, when it comes to production of cannabis,NMTOOLBAG.

Every other post is copy and paste from you guys. Just look at your logs duh! Granny Storm, George Cervantes, etc.. Look at my logs. I never bitched about $300 a pound cannabis. I say to you : Do it. Bring it to market and sell it for $300. You can't, because you will not. Not because it can't be done. Self centered little boy!

The question you asked, which I answered, was how much do I spend on growing my own medication. The answer still is about $100 a month on everything I need to produce my medication.

I never offered any more information, because it's none of your business. I do just fine, thank you very much. Never asked for your opinion or advise.

Now, for the good of the patients and program, if someone DOES ask for opinions or advise, please DO give it to them, you do have a lot to say about growing cannabis. So just give it to them and try to keep your pissy criticism to a minimum. You night be surprised as to how many people might actually listen to you and WANT your advise.
I'm just saying, come on dude don't be such a flamer.

[PatientNM]

PatientNM
Your ability to use proper grammar would be considered a miracle. You should also stop flaming everyoneâ??s post ,or, at the very least, back your angry mouth up with some facts.

This is what I have seen ,or experienced over the last eight years and a quick look at what I feel is the obvious. PatientNM!, I am certain This break down wonâ??t vapor lock you and send you into a rage:thumbsup:
In 2002 MMJ, Everywhere in the US was $50.00 an 1/8, $100.00 a 1/4.
In 2004 it was $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2006 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2008 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 in 2010 $50.00 1/8 $100.00 1/4 (facts taken from the street and all mmj programs/respective producers and dispensaries in the US)
I'm no brain press, rather very aware that time should have inflated that price a while back. Odd how it neither goes North or South?
Anyone should be able to step back, look at it from a economic time line and realize that the pricing is radical, was set very high a long time ago and has to come down, Not "need to come down" but must come down!
Thank you Mimbres and the rest of you for your dedication.

Xsnoder, I'm sorry if I struck a cord with you. I don't have and never had a horse in the "we need lower prices now" race. It has been said by many and it's true, if you want affordable meds grow them yourself. So I'm not really sure what you are requesting I shut my angry mouth about. What facts and figures did you think I owed you??

My beef is with your little friends Mimsy and Dumming. They act like bullies and treat everyone like jerks. I don't like that. It's my opinion. I can't imagine you siding with these numb nuts after they flamed Medical Momma like they did. Or do you support that kind of behavior too?

I mean come on! The patients Guild is a perfect example of a great idea pushed forth by the wrong personality. The reason nobody signed up was the fact that it was headed up by Mimsy and Duming. Not, as they themselves said "because everyone here sucks and they deserve to pay high prices"! Oh the nerve!! And you want to stand on that side xsnoder? .... OK to each his own. No flame here, we all make our own choices, bravo on yours xsnoder.

You might mention to your friends that you can't build a following or a movement by bullying people around and acting like a jerk. Maybe someday this will sink in with these guys. Only time will tell.
Good luck!

[DrBreeze]

Nobody here has any right to decide what the cost should be or could be, or will be. Instead of bitching and moaning about it and arguing endlessly, shut up and make it better. It's all of this condescending behavior that sets back the movement as a whole.

A little maturity goes a long way, but that is when your in "this" for the right reasons...not the wrong ones.

[coolslayer]

Does any one know of the provider for lea county I was recently appoved into the program. I was given a list on a sheet of paper but I dont see anyone from Lea county? Does anyone know the different strands and which are recommended for which sickness? Sorry so igneront never have smoked any type of medicine. Thanks for any help.

How many Producers are on the list that you were given?

[MimbresValley]

How am I getting lumped in with DemingNonProfit? what the hell?

[MimbresValley]

Xsnoder, I'm sorry if I struck a cord with you. I don't have and never had a horse in the "we need lower prices now" race. It has been said by many and it's true, if you want affordable meds grow them yourself. So I'm not really sure what you are requesting I shut my angry mouth about. What facts and figures did you think I owed you??

My beef is with your little friends Mimsy and Dumming. They act like bullies and treat everyone like jerks. I don't like that. It's my opinion. I can't imagine you siding with these numb nuts after they flamed Medical Momma like they did. Or do you support that kind of behavior too?

I mean come on! The patients Guild is a perfect example of a great idea pushed forth by the wrong personality. The reason nobody signed up was the fact that it was headed up by Mimsy and Duming. Not, as they themselves said "because everyone here sucks and they deserve to pay high prices"! Oh the nerve!! And you want to stand on that side xsnoder? .... OK to each his own. No flame here, we all make our own choices, bravo on yours xsnoder.

You might mention to your friends that you can't build a following or a movement by bullying people around and acting like a jerk. Maybe someday this will sink in with these guys. Only time will tell.
Good luck!


Patient, I am not assoiated with that jerk, I know we have had some disagreements, but I would like to extend my hand in friendship, and please don't lump me in with that arrogant coincided douche.


I don't want to argue with anyone. I want to unite the patients of NM, not cause fighting and arguments, I am sorry if that is what some of my posts have done.

I have said what I had to say everyone knows how I feel, I will be putting up a grow show on here pretty soon for everyone to follow along, and hopefully I can help a couple people understand some of the nuances of growing, and maybe I will learn a little something myself.

I just want to help others, and I wouldn't ever put somebody down a fellow grower who is having problems.

And just to set the record straight, DouchNonProfit & myself met up as we live about an hour from each other, I suggested the NM patients group, he started a thread on here, and gave me a few names for the mailing list.

The group was originally my idea, and has nothing to do with doucheNonProfit.

Me and alfonso talk all the time, and we were just talking about douchNP the other day, i told him I was not interested in working with him, because he has a totally different agenda than myself. At the time I didn't realize what an arrogant prick he was.

[medical420mama]

Patient, I am not assoiated with that jerk, I know we have had some disagreements, but I would like to extend my hand in friendship, and please don't lump me in with that arrogant coincided douche.


I don't want to argue with anyone. I want to unite the patients of NM, not cause fighting and arguments, I am sorry if that is what some of my posts have done.

I have said what I had to say everyone knows how I feel, I will be putting up a grow show on here pretty soon for everyone to follow along, and hopefully I can help a couple people understand some of the nuances of growing, and maybe I will learn a little something myself.

I just want to help others, and I wouldn't ever put somebody down a fellow grower who is having problems.

And just to set the record straight, DouchNonProfit & myself met up as we live about an hour from each other, I suggested the NM patients group, he started a thread on here, and gave me a few names for the mailing list.

The group was originally my idea, and has nothing to do with doucheNonProfit.

Me and alfonso talk all the time, and we were just talking about douchNP the other day, i told him I was not interested in working with him, because he has a totally different agenda than myself. At the time I didn't realize what an arrogant prick he was.

I never had a problem with you becasue you didnt bash on me. Right now the only person i have a problem with is "douchNP". I did nothing wrong and i got put down for it. I want to thank everyone that has stood up for me it means a great deal and if there is ever anything i can do to help let me know. I am limited on things i can do but i am more the happy to help.

[MimbresValley]

same here mama.
and you are in luck, the grow show I am going to be posting up is done with 5 gallon buckets, so it should really help you out. I should have it up tomorrow, my girl had to go out of town for a conference, and I cant figure out how to get pictures off her digital, so it will have to wait a day or two.

Its funny, im a great grower, but can't operate a camera LOL, just goes to show you everyone is good at something.

[medical420mama]

same here mama.
and you are in luck, the grow show I am going to be posting up is done with 5 gallon buckets, so it should really help you out. I should have it up tomorrow, my girl had to go out of town for a conference, and I cant figure out how to get pictures off her digital, so it will have to wait a day or two.

Its funny, im a great grower, but can't operate a camera LOL, just goes to show you everyone is good at something.

No worries my hubby is the same way. He is a very smart guy but just not the brightest when it comes to computers. I am looking forward to seeing your babies. Thank you MV for being a good friend.

[xsnoder]

Opoligize for High jacking the thread for a moment Momma. Also opoligize to you Mimbres,, wrong person.
PatientNM, Got off on the wrong foot this morning. Peace everyone

[alfonso2002]

dam what a day and I was not around But it's all good I think.Everybody got to vent a little. lets all cool out jets. and work together