Diagnose me Please!

[timekeeper]

Hi All,

This is our first grow. We had a really rocky start but things finally turned around and she was flourishing,but now that we are in the home stretch,our girl is fading fast.

I didn't know where the form was to fill out and frankly haven't kept records of all we have been through with her.

We started out feeding Flora nova Grow 7-4-10 during veg state and then began Flora Nova Bloom 4-8-7 during flowering. Been on a 12/12 cycle With 4 40 watt cfls and 2 32 cfls (27k) for about 5 weeks. (Will keep records next time..lol) Her ph is about 7. She's about 4 feet tall.

Her fan leaves began getting brown around the edges and tips. We believed it to be nute burn and backed off. Now, all kinds of problems are cropping up. The fan leaves started turning yellow and brown and the smaller leaves close to the buds/stalk are drying up. Some leaves have no yellowing but have brown spots. :(

We are perplexed!:weedpoke:

Last two waterings have been straight water. Anyway, we just hoped maybe a pro could have a look and give us a clue by four of anything we can to to salvage her. The budding is pretty uneven. Some hairs have turned red while others are white still. There is a lot of frosting on the leaves but being newbies we can only see one bud with trichomes.

Thanks!

[fasts102376]

i'm not a pro but it looks like some kind of fungus or root rot whats ur humidity been like?

[timekeeper]

Hi and thanks for the reply.

We haven't gaged the humidity but I'm thinking it not "too" high. That could have been the case during veg state as it was in a bathroom closet. That room was way to hot and it now (in flower) lives in a much cooler room.

Root rot is a good possibility. I can't tell you the trouble we had with soil. We transplanted three times before she really began to take off. We noticed a while back that some of the roots were becoming exposed on top so we covered them and have had this trouble ever since.

Most of the discoloration seems to be in the middle of the plant. I'm guessing that it too late to do anything about it if it's root rot? Just ride it out? I don't think it long till harvest, but with everything going so uneven, just not sure what to do at this point.

[canniwhatsis]

Looks like a PH nute lock to me.

You said the PH was 7? that's high, should be closer to 6 (At least if speaking of inbound nutes,... I haven't got a clue about soil PH)

Here's the link for the trouble shooting form, Cut and copy it here and answer the questions as best you can.


Thank RustyTrichome for this being in his Sig! ;)

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/173775-cancom-copy-n-paste-troubleshooting-forms.html

[bigtopsfinn]

Troubleshooting form will help...

How long has it been in the same soil/container? Do you have a digital ph meter to measure the run-off ph? Milwaukee ph600 is about $20 and worth every penny.

What I'm getting at is that the ph buffers in the soil ran out (usually takes 6-8 weeks, give or take), causing ph to drop from the 6's to the natural level of peat, which is less than 5, locking out essential nutrients.

[timekeeper]

Thank you again for your replies! Here is the C-n-P best I could fill out. As mentioned very new and sloppy :wtf:

What is your experience level? -First timer

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. - 4 40 watt cfls and 2 32 cfls (27k)
.2) Distance from tops? 4 inches. Lights on sides as well.
.3) Reflector type? -enclosed reflector
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? - Yes
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? - Circulation fan
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? -Light sch is 12/12

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil. - Started with recommended medium, no growth. Switched to top soil, no growth. Ended with soil from our own garden. Only then did it begin to thrive and grow.
.8) Size of container. 13 inch
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings?- No

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? - Tap and distilled. Ph between 7.2 & 7.4
11) Method of checking water ph.- Aquarium test kit.
12) Method of adjusting water ph. N/A
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. Flora nova Grow 7-4-10 during veg state and then began Flora Nova Bloom 4-8-7 during flowering. We add one bottled water size bottle of Bloom nutes and two bottles tap water per watering.
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering?- Watering about every three days
15) Any additives or tea's? -Tried a light solution of Epsom salt once.
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? -Stable I believe.
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? Already answered the first and have not tested the run-off but will at next watering.
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray?- No

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? - Indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? - Corner of 10x12 room.
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? Temp is 78 degrees and consistent. Humidity is at 65%
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? No

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) Unsure
24) From seeds or clones? Seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? Dunno


It seems as though it's almost harvest time. I think what we really want to know is if it's too late to correct anything. I can try to lower the PH with white vinegar . I mean if it's root-rot, should we try to transplant at this late date? I feel that would be too much handling and send her into shock.

LoL Sorry I'm a bit disjointed this Saturday morning.

[bigtopsfinn]

If the run-off has any color to it, the color-coded ph tests will be skewed. I run the water through coffee filters or paper towels to get it clear before testing.

How long has it been in that container? How long in 12/12?

[timekeeper]

The run off is yellowish in color. Ran it through coffee filters, but still has a little yellow tint to it. At that point, the run off tested about 7.2. She's been in that container since the 2nd half of veg. Been on 12/12 for about 5 weeks.

I really want to thank you all for wonderful info and links. I will document much better next time. Now with the c-n-p form, I'll something to look back on from this grow. Just amazing how fragile it all is.

[bigtopsfinn]

The run off is yellowish in color. Ran it through coffee filters, but still has a little yellow tint to it. At that point, the run off tested about 7.2. She's been in that container since the 2nd half of veg. Been on 12/12 for about 5 weeks.

I really want to thank you all for wonderful info and links. I will document much better next time. Now with the c-n-p form, I'll something to look back on from this grow. Just amazing how fragile it all is.

Well except for your ph reading I'd say I was on the right track, the lime from the soil should be depleted by now and you're getting lockout. Still have a hard time believing that the soil ph is 7.2, unless you've been feeding with a really high ph for all this time.

I do my final transplant in week 1 or 2 of flowering, and have no ph issues late in flowering.

Personally I'd try a little transplant where you can get a couple inches of fresh soil around the root mass. Still have a few weeks to go and I don't think it'll get any better.

But maybe wait until some of the more experienced growers (like RustyTrichome) get a chance to look this through.

[timekeeper]

We agree that it's the ph level. Yesterday was the first time testing our tap water and didn't know that the ph was so high, so yes...we have been feeding her high ph water. Our aquarium water tested pretty low though:thumbsup:

When you say little transplant, do mean just removing a fair amount of soil from the pot and replacing it? I'd be more willing to do that than a full trans at this stage.

[LetsSeeYa]

We agree that it's the ph level. Yesterday was the first time testing our tap water and didn't know that the ph was so high, so yes...we have been feeding her high ph water. Our aquarium water tested pretty low though:thumbsup:

When you say little transplant, do mean just removing a fair amount of soil from the pot and replacing it? I'd be more willing to do that than a full trans at this stage.

Its really very easy to re pot as that pot is way to small and with a Ph issue that you know of now is a bit much for the plant to deal with. Just let her dry out and she will come right out of her pot without any stress at all. I have a ''how to re pot'' in my Sig that will help. It has pic's in it that might make your re pot easy and shows the re potted plants recovery. Some nice new soil will finish your plant well, without any more stress at all to the plant.


Good luck:rasta:

[bigtopsfinn]

timekeeper- Can't really do that because the mass of the roots will be wound up all around the bottom. Don't mess with the rootball. I meant more in the line of lifting the rootball out of its container, filling a little soil in the bottom of that container, and placing the rootball back. Then filling in the sides with more fresh soil. Having a friend would be easier (if a friend already knows about the grow). You will not cause any major harm as long as the roots are undisturbed. This way at least a large portion of the roots will have properly ph balanced soil and should help.

I'm still not 100% positive, because the soil is so old and the ph is so high. Plus you can't really rely on the ph drops for run-off. Also all the different soils you have used makes it even harder to know what's really going on.

Reading back, it could also be that there is a large build-up of nutes in the soil causing the continuous burn. I didn't notice anything about flushing yet. I would maybe try that first, 3 times the amount of the container size (if 3 gal container, flush with 9 gals of properly ph'd water) A drop of non-antibacterial dish soap might help release some of them.

So I'd say try the flush first, wait a few days to see how the new growth is doing, and then use the transplant as a last resort.

Hopefully someone else can step in and confirm or give better advice...

[timekeeper]

LetsSeeYa, Thanks for the info and Links. Looks pretty simple and have fresh bag Happy Frog ready to go. Unfortunately we watered yesterday with the only water with low ph. Fish tank water. 6.2. I had to give her something, it was really dry and drooping. Seems to have perked up a little. Now will have wait 3-4 more days till it dry's out again. W e are a hubby & wife team so there are two of us to handle her. :)

bigtopsfinn, we did a mild flush when we changed nutes from veg to flower. Only ran about a gallon of water through it, then next two waterings were with just water. With unknowingly high ph water. I could flush now, but the only water I could use with low ph would be the fish tank water. Would this be alright:question:

I know I have said it before but truly,Thank You. You all have been so gracious to help the poor newbies with links and info and advice.

[bigtopsfinn]

Not really sure about that fish tank water, and what it really has in it. Even if the ph is ok, other stuff might not.

Better would be to use ph down (phosphoric acid for flowering plants, while nitric acid for plants in veg). People will sometimes use lemon juice for a quick fix, but shouldn't be used constantly. Try to use around 6.5ph water.

If you just watered yesterday I'd say it's OK to flush now. Flushing with 3x the water is standard procedure for nute burn, don't know how I missed that before (sorry bout that :()

Keep in mind that it takes a while to notice the corrections you made in soil. The burnt leaves won't get better, so check the new growth. If you don't feel the need to flush, then don't. Maybe the plain water feedings are starting to help. We're not there so I think you can make best decision.

[timekeeper]

Ok, She seems to be doing better. New growth looks good but, as luck would have it, she's producing seeds. Wasn't sure at first, but there's no doubt. Hard to see in the pics but those are seed pods. The question is...do I harvest it now before seeds consume the whole plant? Or do I wait, and let it completely mature? Best I can tell, the top 2 big colas have no seeds but also still have just white hairs.

Had seen no seeds up to this point. Not sure if or how she got pollinated. Can they just hermi on their own?

What say you?:confused: