Vending?

[TheReleafCenter]

Where have all the vendors gone? It's been awfully quiet around here lately.

[TurboALLWD]

Where have all the vendors gone? It's been awfully quiet around here lately.


Why does this seem to be another dig on caregivers? It's probably because you're calling them vendors. :spamsign:

[SoCoMMJ]

I thought it was illegal now for vendors [caregivers with excess] to sell to the MMCs now.

They must be in the city parks selling off the leftovers to school kids for their milk money now. I'm pretty sure that they aren't throwing it away :)

[TurboALLWD]

I thought it was illegal now for vendors [caregivers with excess] to sell to the MMCs now.

They must be in the city parks selling off the leftovers to school kids for their milk money now. I'm pretty sure that they aren't throwing it away :)

Another MMC showing it's true colors, how surprising. You're truely an ASSet to the community. :D


And the caregivers are the ones sellin to the kids? give me a break, now go ahead and sell some weed to an 18yr old with 10 of his highschool buddies in you're parking lot. Dispensaries have been known to sell to kids, not caregivers. :rastasmoke:

[copobo]

i'm hoping that was sarcasm.

lot's of them, is maken' hash of grade a buds.

[dixierebel]

I thought it was illegal now for vendors [caregivers with excess] to sell to the MMCs now.

They must be in the city parks selling off the leftovers to school kids for their milk money now. I'm pretty sure that they aren't throwing it away :)

looks to me like it was a haha i will say im on your side but i'll stab ya in the back low blow to me....

[SoCoMMJ]

Another MMC showing it's true colors, how surprising. You're truely an ASSet to the community. :D


And the caregivers are the ones sellin to the kids? give me a break, now go ahead and sell some weed to an 18yr old with 10 of his highschool buddies in you're parking lot. Dispensaries have been known to sell to kids, not caregivers. :rastasmoke:

You have a hard time recognizing sarcasm ?

I'm pretty sure nobody is selling to kids for their milk money. But hey, if you think they might be, maybe you should drop a dime. I'll even loan you the dime if you think it's me.

Think about where you are at before you start slinging unfounded accusations. If you actually knew my true colors I think that you would have a different opinion. I too was a caregiver before the onslaught of HB10-1284.

Instead of dumping patients to the street, we stepped up to continue providing them service. So far we've cleared almost negative 100 grand to do so. lol We might make that back by next year if they don't pass a local dispensary ban, or get raided again, or get ripped off, or get robbed, or suffer a plague etc etc.... Risky business eh??

Oh, and you were bitching in one of your prior rants that the evil money grubbing, patient raping dispensaries can't touch your $225 an ounce bargain basement super caregiver meds ? You would be wrong. All day every day our meds are less than that. Well, I guess we do charge sales tax on top of that though... We don't advertise or even have a sign, and have a long waiting list. We can't be as evil as you think.

But hey, it's the internets... It is what it is. Anybody can be the best dispensary or caregiver in the world when hidden behind a router.

Peace

[TurboALLWD]

I realized you were trying to play it off as sarcasm, and yeah I've noticed you knockin the little caregivers before but who cares, we all know most disp's are against caregivers. Hope that business decision works out and you become mighty rich, but you're seriously going to play it off as helpin the patients? Come on now, I sense the sarcasm there. :D


bargain basement super caregiver meds

Tell me what you REALLY think, lol :D You can't touch the $8/g, $28/8th, and $225 an oz on real quality meds. Call it whatever you want, I'd love for you to prove me wrong with that shitty wharehouse weed you grow, isn't that what everyone calls it these days?

[SoCoMMJ]

I realized you were trying to play it off as sarcasm, and yeah I've noticed you knockin the little caregivers before but who cares, we all know most disp's are against caregivers. Hope that business decision works out and you become mighty rich, but you're seriously going to play it off as helpin the patients? Come on now, I sense the sarcasm there. :D



Tell me what you REALLY think, lol :D You can't touch the $8/g, $28/8th, and $225 an oz on real quality meds. Call it whatever you want, I'd love for you to prove me wrong with that shitty wharehouse weed you grow, isn't that what everyone calls it these days?

Yeah, you are right. All I grow is shitty warehouse weed. LoL How did we know that one was coming ? [Sarcasm in case you needed help there]

And oh yeah, we give ALL of our patients a free 1/4 of this "warehouse shit" every single month. We have some patients that we give much much more than that for FREE.

So lets see, last year we GAVE AWAY $25k in Meds to our patients... how evil are we ? This year will be significantly more than that.

I don't knock the little caregivers... I have several that I help out with their grows. I do tend to knock arrogant caregivers that think only they can provide good service.

I think you can shut up now on your evil dispensary rant.

BTW, if it is really costing you $225 an OZ to grow this, you are not doing it right ;)

The latest run, S.A.G.E... I know, I know, it's shitty, but it's all I can do in a warehouse.

[dixierebel]

You have a hard time recognizing sarcasm ?

I'm pretty sure nobody is selling to kids for their milk money. But hey, if you think they might be, maybe you should drop a dime. I'll even loan you the dime if you think it's me.

Think about where you are at before you start slinging unfounded accusations. If you actually knew my true colors I think that you would have a different opinion. I too was a caregiver before the onslaught of HB10-1284.

Instead of dumping patients to the street, we stepped up to continue providing them service. So far we've cleared almost negative 100 grand to do so. lol We might make that back by next year if they don't pass a local dispensary ban, or get raided again, or get ripped off, or get robbed, or suffer a plague etc etc.... Risky business eh??

Oh, and you were bitching in one of your prior rants that the evil money grubbing, patient raping dispensaries can't touch your $225 an ounce bargain basement super caregiver meds ? You would be wrong. All day every day our meds are less than that. Well, I guess we do charge sales tax on top of that though... We don't advertise or even have a sign, and have a long waiting list. We can't be as evil as you think.

But hey, it's the internets... It is what it is. Anybody can be the best dispensary or caregiver in the world when hidden behind a router.

Peace

are you saying every oz in you center is 225 each?

[blackhash]

It's sad to see where we've ended up on all of this. There are certainly pros and cons to both scenarios.(dispensary/caregivership)

But the bottom line to me is that as of now the dispensaries are the model at hand and as a result, they are THE entities that are being watched, both by the State and FED, and by the general public. Such is why, even though a form of sarcasm may have been there, comments about selling to kids and shit EVEN ON A POT BOARD are totally DAMAGING to this entire scene. You folks who have "stepped up" now hold this entire program's future in your hands and IMO, it's about time you started policing not only your own behaviors but also those of your peers. If you don't, I guarantee the voting public WILL.

blackhash

[SoCoMMJ]

are you saying every oz in you center is 225 each?

No, I was saying that every ounce in the center is LESS than the $225 Turbo said that no MMC could touch.

On occasion we have low yielding strains for $225, but for the most part everything we grow is $200. Of course we need to charge tax on sales too.

[TheReleafCenter]

Why does this seem to be another dig on caregivers? It's probably because you're calling them vendors. :spamsign:

There have been threads on here before talking about vendors. Like:
http://boards.cannabis.com/colorado-co/186199-dispensaries-still-accepting-vendors.html
http://boards.cannabis.com/colorado-co/182499-looking-reasonable-vendor.html
http://boards.cannabis.com/colorado-co/186010-tough-time-vendors.html

I was just wondering if the perception was you can no longer vend meds.

I'm still going to speak at the public hearing, but honestly, sometimes I wonder why. Another one of your tirades against one of my posts for no reason other than we're an MMC.

[boulderbud5525]

really folks, we need to stop this jibber jabbering at each other. it's counterproductive to perpetuate this caregivers vs. MMC bs. Because of the laws it is what it is for the time being. As a caregiver myself, while i despise what has happened because of the new regulations, i'm still grateful that we have a state that is dealing with MJ at all! It wasn't all that long ago that we were all underground trying to stay away from LEO and knowing that at any moment it could all come crashing down along with the front door! We're closer than we have ever been to having this all legal once and for all. Lets work towards that goal and be advocates for change and allies under the green umbrella!:thumbsup:

[SprngsCaregiver]

really folks, we need to stop this jibber jabbering at each other. it's counterproductive to perpetuate this caregivers vs. MMC bs. Because of the laws it is what it is for the time being. As a caregiver myself, while i despise what has happened because of the new regulations, i'm still grateful that we have a state that is dealing with MJ at all! It wasn't all that long ago that we were all underground trying to stay away from LEO and knowing that at any moment it could all come crashing down along with the front door! We're closer than we have ever been to having this all legal once and for all. Lets work towards that goal and be advocates for change and allies under the green umbrella!:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:

Good old fashion divide and conquer.

[SprngsCaregiver]

No, I was saying that every ounce in the center is LESS than the $225 Turbo said that no MMC could touch.

On occasion we have low yielding strains for $225, but for the most part everything we grow is $200. Of course we need to charge tax on sales too.

Aren't you in the springs?

[colagal]

Where have all the vendors gone? It's been awfully quiet around here lately.

Sounds like you are running out of meds? 70/30 rule becoming a wee bit of a problem? Anyway, do you have legal means to deal with vendors?

[SoCoMMJ]

Sounds like you are running out of meds? 70/30 rule becoming a wee bit of a problem? Anyway, do you have legal means to deal with vendors?

70/30 isn't the issue, it's patients coming on faster than the garden can catch up. We've been having to slow down the incoming patients so we don't run out. The 5 patient cap put a lot of people out of a caregiver, + many dispensaries closed up on 8/1.

We only sell what we can grow. I want to know what's in the product we're selling to patients. Besides, I'm not so sure that anybody has legal means to deal with vendors at this point. I don't want to be the test case :)

[SoCoMMJ]

really folks, we need to stop this jibber jabbering at each other. it's counterproductive to perpetuate this caregivers vs. MMC bs.

I agree. We just all do what we do.

In the end, it's really not about the caregivers or MMCs or which model is better. I've been on both sides of that coin and they are both about the patients and the plants...or should be anyways.

[copobo]

yes. Now though, as Centers are where the money flows - they have an extra responsibility to speak up for patients and non-profit caretakers.

Releaf- be sure and go speak at that hearing, it will not go unnoticed in the community.

[TheReleafCenter]

Sounds like you are running out of meds? 70/30 rule becoming a wee bit of a problem? Anyway, do you have legal means to deal with vendors?

It's not the 70/30, it's everyone closing their doors. Tons of new patients, just trying to keep the variety up.

As far as we've been advised, it's legal to accept vendors until August 31st.

And, once again, I have NO problem with caregivers... they've helped us out and I'd like to be able to help anyone out thinking they're stuck with overage because they can't vend.

[colagal]

70/30 isn't the issue, it's patients coming on faster than the garden can catch up. We've been having to slow down the incoming patients so we don't run out. The 5 patient cap put a lot of people out of a caregiver, + many dispensaries closed up on 8/1.

We only sell what we can grow. I want to know what's in the product we're selling to patients. Besides, I'm not so sure that anybody has legal means to deal with vendors at this point. I don't want to be the test case :)


It's not the 70/30, it's everyone closing their doors. Tons of new patients, just trying to keep the variety up.

As far as we've been advised, it's legal to accept vendors until August 31st.

And, once again, I have NO problem with caregivers... they've helped us out and I'd like to be able to help anyone out thinking they're stuck with overage because they can't vend.

So, if you have to turn down patients to keep within your license requirements/grow limitations, are you recommending caregivers for those who do not state your center as their provider?

I imagine most centers will not be able to boast of a variety of flavors unless centers trade flavors amongst themselves....but not the good ones, eh?

Also, is it possible for caregivers to meet their patients at your center, i.e., a neutral place (private room) out of site of the public rather than a parking lot, etc. if the patient is uncomfortable having their caregiver come to their home?

[canaguy27]

what range are you offering for vendors?

[SoCoMMJ]

So, if you have to turn down patients to keep within your license requirements/grow limitations, are you recommending caregivers for those who do not state your center as their provider?

Patients are free to shop at any MMC that they want without making a designation of primary center. If they want to buy from us they have to wait a bit until we can take them on. We are only selling to our patients that have made the MMC designation until the garden catches up with demand.

Soon we will catch up with demand. Then we'll be able to sell to patients regardless of their MMC designation status.

Hmmmm.... Hadn't really considered providing a meeting place for caregivers to deliver to their patients. Sounds like a good way to help out, but I wonder how the DOR will be with it regarding moving inventory in and out of the MMC ? I may have to ponder that one. I think there may be some other legal exposures to consider there as well.

[dixierebel]

70/30 isn't the issue, it's patients coming on faster than the garden can catch up. We've been having to slow down the incoming patients so we don't run out. The 5 patient cap put a lot of people out of a caregiver, + many dispensaries closed up on 8/1.

We only sell what we can grow. I want to know what's in the product we're selling to patients. Besides, I'm not so sure that anybody has legal means to deal with vendors at this point. I don't want to be the test case :)

sounds like hb1284 is working wonders for the "centers"now.i can see how you can drop the prices to around 200 per being that you get to now"legally"take everyones patients.sure you can say i did'nt want it this way honest i did'nt.lmao i wish i could get the gov to regulate any biz i owned so that all customers HAD to come my way too...

[dixierebel]

Patients are free to shop at any MMC that they want without making a designation of primary center. If they want to buy from us they have to wait a bit until we can take them on. We are only selling to our patients that have made the MMC designation until the garden catches up with demand.

Soon we will catch up with demand. Then we'll be able to sell to patients regardless of their MMC designation status.

Hmmmm.... Hadn't really considered providing a meeting place for caregivers to deliver to their patients. Sounds like a good way to help out, but I wonder how the DOR will be with it regarding moving inventory in and out of the MMC ? I may have to ponder that one. I think there may be some other legal exposures to consider there as well.

yea like the "caregiver to caregiver"rule? as in no caregiver can link up with other caregivers.

[dixierebel]

It's not the 70/30, it's everyone closing their doors. Tons of new patients, just trying to keep the variety up.

As far as we've been advised, it's legal to accept vendors until August 31st.

And, once again, I have NO problem with caregivers... they've helped us out and I'd like to be able to help anyone out thinking they're stuck with overage because they can't vend.

your right they did help out in a big way...by staying quite while the rug was being pulled out from under them.

[SoCoMMJ]

sounds like hb1284 is working wonders for the "centers"now.i can see how you can drop the prices to around 200 per being that you get to now"legally"take everyones patients.sure you can say i did'nt want it this way honest i did'nt.lmao i wish i could get the gov to regulate any biz i owned so that all customers HAD to come my way too...

I don't really believe that HB10-1284 is working wonders for anybody. Not for centers, not for caregivers, and not for patients. Our wonderful legislators dumped this same mess on everybody in the industry. Yes the industry needed some regulation, but not this mess.

Somehow you twisted a good thing of selling to our patients at wholesale prices into a strange perversion of stealing patients from you. I look at it more as, why would I sell to my own patients at a higher price than I would sell to another dispensary for?

But I guess maybe I should change that and charge more ??? Or maybe not be in business so patients can pay more where the MMC has to pay growers wholesale before they mark it up? Not sure what you are looking for here.

We are well aware that 1284 sucks, but we're past that and dealing with it.

[colagal]

Patients are free to shop at any MMC that they want without making a designation of primary center. If they want to buy from us they have to wait a bit until we can take them on. We are only selling to our patients that have made the MMC designation until the garden catches up with demand.

Soon we will catch up with demand. Then we'll be able to sell to patients regardless of their MMC designation status.

Hmmmm.... Hadn't really considered providing a meeting place for caregivers to deliver to their patients. Sounds like a good way to help out, but I wonder how the DOR will be with it regarding moving inventory in and out of the MMC ? I may have to ponder that one. I think there may be some other legal exposures to consider there as well.


I understand patients can buy from any center, but won't y'all have the same periodic supply/demand problem? For example, if your license says 300 patients who have designated your center as their provider, and you have, say, 1000 total customers, won't there always be a potential supply deficit? And that is assuming no problems with the grow. Also, since other centers will no doubt be in the same boat, no one will have anything extra to offer within that 30% range to make up the shortfall. So, unless centers decide to pay the larger license fees to have more grow potential, it seems that, at least for the next year, there will be a shortfall....to be made up...where? How long will these patients wait for their meds if the centers are temporarily out? Where will they go? It looks like centers will probably not suggest caregivers (former vendors) since that may not be in their best interests, plus it may be that most patients prefer to buy from centers than from caregivers?

I imagine that when it comes to audit time, the inspectors will check very closely to see that what you grow and what you sell matches. Even if your patients don't use their allotted 2 oz., the extra may not cover all your other customer needs, and again a shortage problem. That's my guess: there will be a shortage at most centers this next year. And, if so, that may translate into higher prices?

[copobo]

I would assume some of the Centers are positioning themselves to be wholesalers to other Centers, more than being dispensaries themselves.

I could be wrong, but I assume some volume players will emerge soon enough.

[SoCoMMJ]

Yeah, i think there will be plenty of meds available. There are some 100 light grows going in down here. The patients will always have numerous MMCs to buy from. The MMCs should have plenty of options to buy an additional 30%.

There are well over 100 dispensaries here in Co Springs that paid the city app fees. Not sure how many of those ran the state application and stayed on after 8/1 though.

I believe that prices will come down once things settle in. Part of the reason for the high prices relates to contracted grower prices. If the dispensary pays +/- 200oz to the grower, the price goes up to retail from there.

As contracts get renegotiated, the prices will come down. But still there is the wholesale grower to dispensary price prior to retail mark up.

[canaguy27]

I could be wrong, but I assume some volume players will emerge soon enough.

They are here and have grow spaces of over 50,000 sqft. And those are just the ones I know about. I spoke to one guy in Rino that said he was aligning with dispensaries and he had 150,000 sqft of space.

There will be plenty of supply.

[johnthemick]

I think that many dispensaries are going to be a lot busier than they anticipated in the next few months. A 100 light set up will do a little more than a pound per day. There are MMCs selling 5lbs/day, currently.

I think a lot of centers will have a hard time with the 70% piece as patient numbers continue to increase and the number of centers remains static. It takes a huge operation to produce the numbers needed. Huge.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

[canaguy27]

what range are you offering for vendors?

putting this thread back on track. I ask the above again.

[copobo]

They are here and have grow spaces of over 50,000 sqft. And those are just the ones I know about. I spoke to one guy in Rino that said he was aligning with dispensaries and he had 150,000 sqft of space.

There will be plenty of supply.

I bet that will be exquisite smoke (LOL)

I wonder what the preventative regimen is in a grow that big.

serious chems!

[Zedleppelin]

I bet that will be exquisite smoke (LOL)

I wonder what the preventative regimen is in a grow that big.

serious chems!

Yep, it would take months just to discover you had mites, nothing a few gallons of Avid wouldnt fix though.

[copobo]

that's what I'm saying. You could NEVER let it happen! you'd be down the shitter just on electricity bills. Out months of production - from ONE pm or mite infection! The only way to deal will be with preventative measures. employee shower-in. clean room standards. I doubt anyone is up to speed on this. perhaps a couple cali/bc implants. then again, there are some people that know their shit around here,

[SoCoMMJ]

that's what I'm saying. You could NEVER let it happen! you'd be down the shitter just on electricity bills. Out months of production - from ONE pm or mite infection! The only way to deal will be with preventative measures. employee shower-in. clean room standards. I doubt anyone is up to speed on this. perhaps a couple cali/bc implants. then again, there are some people that know their shit around here,


Yep, step one:
NO freaking cuts, clones, or plants brought in from outside of the center.

Everything I see lately has either mites, pm, or the latest fun, Gnats. Thank god they weren't RA. And this stuff comes from "professionals". WTF ?

[Ebbandflowian]

They are here and have grow spaces of over 50,000 sqft. And those are just the ones I know about. I spoke to one guy in Rino that said he was aligning with dispensaries and he had 150,000 sqft of space.

There will be plenty of supply.
I have been to a bunch of huge warehouses in the last 2 months yes there will be plenty of supply but the quality won't be where it was I spoke to a dispensery grower who is spending under 10 bucks an ounce indoor that's including rent electric mutes etc! I think that the quality of growers is better here then in Cali but it is nowhere near where it needs to be....can you grow aaa bud in a warehouse? Yes but it takes alot of work to do it right

btw Soco weed is bomb and cheap as hell!! I think that in the next year everyone will see prices go down as dispensery owners are going to start hacking away at prices to grab a bigger slice of the pie yes 1284 hurt alot of caregivers I for one had to shut down a barn that I had sunk over 50k into but you have to adapt to stay alive in this business

[TheReleafCenter]

So, if you have to turn down patients to keep within your license requirements/grow limitations, are you recommending caregivers for those who do not state your center as their provider?

I imagine most centers will not be able to boast of a variety of flavors unless centers trade flavors amongst themselves....but not the good ones, eh?

Also, is it possible for caregivers to meet their patients at your center, i.e., a neutral place (private room) out of site of the public rather than a parking lot, etc. if the patient is uncomfortable having their caregiver come to their home?

We haven't reached that point, but when we do, that's a possibility. Most of the caregivers we work with have maxed out, however. Trading might be more difficult than anyone thought, we're hearing whispers about how insanely regulated wholesaling may become.

We can't allow distribution in our center unless it's by our center, but that is a great idea.


what range are you offering for vendors?

Up to 1000/4k for the right meds.


your right they did help out in a big way...by staying quite while the rug was being pulled out from under them.

I've said time and time again it's unfortunate that caregivers couldn't unite and find a unified voice. We will be speaking up for them at the city council meeting.


I would assume some of the Centers are positioning themselves to be wholesalers to other Centers, more than being dispensaries themselves.

I think too many centers are banking on that. Also, if you're running a huge warehouse and supply is so high because so few centers are any good at growing, wouldn't you pick and choose which other centers you wholesale to?

For example, say The Releaf Center had a massive crop failure. We may have a lot of crop, but not much of it is usable. Why would another shop want to keep us in business? Or why wouldn't they price gouge?

[copobo]

For example, say The Releaf Center had a massive crop failure. We may have a lot of crop, but not much of it is usable. Why would another shop want to keep us in business? Or why wouldn't they price gouge?

if you have your shit down, and if you are in business for the primary purpose of supplying other MMCs (which would be THE business model to be in, IMO) why wouldn't you? Developing good business relationships and a dependable supply chain is how business works.

[SoCoMMJ]

if you have your shit down, and if you are in business for the primary purpose of supplying other MMCs (which would be THE business model to be in, IMO) why wouldn't you? Developing good business relationships and a dependable supply chain is how business works.

The problem is that it cant be your primary purpose. You can only sell 30% or your volume.

[TheReleafCenter]

if you have your shit down, and if you are in business for the primary purpose of supplying other MMCs (which would be THE business model to be in, IMO) why wouldn't you? Developing good business relationships and a dependable supply chain is how business works.

If demand is higher than supply, which I argue it will be, then they'll need to be selective about who they wholesale to. They're also constrained by the 30% rule.

If Coke found out that Pepsi couldn't produce any soda, would they wholesale to them or watch them go down in flames?

[copobo]

The problem is that it cant be your primary purpose. You can only sell 30% or your volume.

really? I thought it was that you could only BUY 30% of your volume?

[copobo]

If demand is higher than supply, which I argue it will be, then they'll need to be selective about who they wholesale to. They're also constrained by the 30% rule.

If Coke found out that Pepsi couldn't produce any soda, would they wholesale to them or watch them go down in flames?

that would be handled by the market (price) if we're really running like businesses. the strong survive...

[SoCoMMJ]

really? I thought it was that you could only BUY 30% of your volume?

There's this:

(4) NOTWITHSTANDING THE REQUIREMENTS OF SUBSECTION (3) OF
THIS SECTION TO THE CONTRARY, A MEDICAL MARIJUANA LICENSEE MAY
PURCHASE NOT MORE THAN THIRTY PERCENT OF ITS TOTAL ON-HAND
INVENTORY OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA FROM ANOTHER LICENSED MEDICAL
MARIJUANA CENTER IN COLORADO. A MEDICAL MARIJUANA CENTER MAY
SELL NO MORE THAN THIRTY PERCENT OF ITS TOTAL ON-HAND INVENTORY
TO ANOTHER COLORADO LICENSED MEDICAL MARIJUANA LICENSEE.

Additionally your plant count will be based on patient count. So you would have to supply them as well off of your numbers. Wholesaling would be great, but they eliminated it by design.

[senorx12562]

I don't really believe that HB10-1284 is working wonders for anybody. Not for centers, not for caregivers, and not for patients. Our wonderful legislators dumped this same mess on everybody in the industry. Yes the industry needed some regulation, but not this mess.

Somehow you twisted a good thing of selling to our patients at wholesale prices into a strange perversion of stealing patients from you. I look at it more as, why would I sell to my own patients at a higher price than I would sell to another dispensary for?

But I guess maybe I should change that and charge more ??? Or maybe not be in business so patients can pay more where the MMC has to pay growers wholesale before they mark it up? Not sure what you are looking for here.

We are well aware that 1284 sucks, but we're past that and dealing with it.
I'm curious about your statement that the industry "needed" regulation. Based on what? The potential danger of the product? How about bicycle shops? Do they need regulation?
What about hair-braiding? Ice skating rinks? I challenge anyone to come up with justification for government interference with cannabis, medical or not, at any level.

[SoCoMMJ]

I challenge anyone to come up with justification for government interference with cannabis, medical or not, at any level.

We can start off with accountability of product that is destined for sick people. A good number of dispensaries would buy from random vendors that brought product to the back door. It was paid for with cash, got marked up, and then went out the front door.

What if there was a problem with the product from contamination... how could you identify the source it if everything was paid in cash and nothing was tracked ?

Your challenge was too easy...:)

[Ocotillo]

Where have all the vendors gone? It's been awfully quiet around here lately.

When folks say "vendors", does this mean you can buy a blunt, joint, baggie, brownie, etc from a vending machine out there in CA? If not yet that would be a great idea. Is this possible? Thanks. Cheers.

[Ocotillo]

.

What the heck IS that thing in your avatar pic? It's been driving me crazy for months!!!!! A baby bird? A mouse? An obscene body part? :what:

[kingminus]

it's a lemming I think... or a baby mole...

[senorx12562]

doh.

[senorx12562]

We can start off with accountability of product that is destined for sick people. A good number of dispensaries would buy from random vendors that brought product to the back door. It was paid for with cash, got marked up, and then went out the front door.

What if there was a problem with the product from contamination... how could you identify the source it if everything was paid in cash and nothing was tracked ?

Your challenge was too easy...:)
Why do you need the government forcing you to do what you should be doing anyway, both as an obligation to your patients and as good business to see that they come back. Fail.

[senorx12562]

What the heck IS that thing in your avatar pic? It's been driving me crazy for months!!!!! A baby bird? A mouse? An obscene body part? :what:
Its a mole, signifying my determination to remain underground as a protest against the whole concept of "medical" marijuana and the government interference it has brought down on our heads, not to mention a lot of holier than thou posturing

[Kartel]

I'm curious about your statement that the industry "needed" regulation. Based on what? The potential danger of the product? How about bicycle shops? Do they need regulation?
What about hair-braiding? Ice skating rinks? I challenge anyone to come up with justification for government interference with cannabis, medical or not, at any level.

I challenge you to come up with another agricultural commodity that is not heavily regulated.

Your examples are not relative to mmj... something closer would be tobacco, and maybe foodcrops that are sold fresh.

[SoCoMMJ]

Why do you need the government forcing you to do what you should be doing anyway, both as an obligation to your patients and as good business to see that they come back. Fail.

Because the industry was not doing it on it's own. I'm pretty sure that you could see that based on my example. Meds came in the back door, then went out the front door with no accountability.

Even if you get bad Tomatoes at the grocery store, they can track it back to exactly which farm it came from. Why should Medical Cannabis be any different ?

Should shops have tracked the source? Yes
Did they ? No

Welcome to government intervention.

[Ocotillo]

Wow, that is a bizarre looking little critter. I love the symbolism though.


Its a mole, signifying my determination to remain underground as a protest against the whole concept of "medical" marijuana and the government interference it has brought down on our heads, not to mention a lot of holier than thou posturing

Here is an even more scary pic of a mole:
Note, people who are easily frightened may NOT want to open the pic.
Holey Moley!

[senorx12562]

I challenge you to come up with another agricultural commodity that is not heavily regulated.

Your examples are not relative to mmj... something closer would be tobacco, and maybe foodcrops that are sold fresh.
The tomatoes and strawberries and cukes I grow in my backyard aren't regulated at all, so why should the cannabis I grow in my basement be regulated, or worse yet banned outright. I didn't ask for a list of other things that are needlessly regulated, I asked for a reason why this particular commodity cries out for regulation. I see no reason why tobacco should be regulated either

[senorx12562]

Because the industry was not doing it on it's own. I'm pretty sure that you could see that based on my example. Meds came in the back door, then went out the front door with no accountability.

Even if you get bad Tomatoes at the grocery store, they can track it back to exactly which farm it came from. Why should Medical Cannabis be any different ?

Should shops have tracked the source? Yes
Did they ? No

Welcome to government intervention.
The market regulates that kind of shit all by itself. If you sell contaminated "medicine," don't you think people will find out? Don't you think that would affect your business? That's the feedback loop that works, at least when the government stays out of things. Isn't the threat to your livelihood enough to make you want to keep track of your sources on your own? That is real accountability.

[colagal]

The tomatoes and strawberries and cukes I grow in my backyard aren't regulated at all, so why should the cannabis I grow in my basement be regulated, or worse yet banned outright. I didn't ask for a list of other things that are needlessly regulated, I asked for a reason why this particular commodity cries out for regulation. I see no reason why tobacco should be regulated either

Give me an example of how this industry could successfully regulate itself as a free market. Would there be absolutely no government interference? Certainly there will be those who will try to manipulate the market...

[Zedleppelin]

Give me an example of how this industry could successfully regulate itself as a free market. Would there be absolutely no government interference? Certainly there will be those who will try to manipulate the market...

It was regulating itself quite well the past 10 years. No easier and better way to manipulate the market than through one sided legislation.

[HighPopalorum]

It was regulating itself quite well the past 10 years.

Not really. Eight of the last ten years the DEA was riding around like cowboys kicking down doors nationwide. Only a fraction of Colorado's potential patients were being served in the days before Obama and dispensaries. The status quo is much better for everyone.

[SoCoMMJ]

If you sell contaminated "medicine," don't you think people will find out? Don't you think that would affect your business?

So as an example if King Soopers sold some E-Coli hamburger you would just stop shopping there? What about the 10 other stores that are also selling from the same vendor?

In the food sales industry, if there is an issue with a product there is a means to pull the product from shelves everywhere it exists.

If some vendor got crazy killing off the mites with avid 7 weeks into flower then hawked it at numerous shops, how could anybody know where it is to recall it?

Why do you think they killed off the vendor sales to dispensaries and forced dispensaries to grow their own ?

King Soopers doesn't take Tomatoes from random backyard farmers for a reason...

[blackhash]

If some vendor got crazy killing off the mites with avid 7 weeks into flower then hawked it at numerous shops, how could anybody know where it is to recall it?

Why do you think they killed off the vendor sales to dispensaries and forced dispensaries to grow their own ?

King Soopers doesn't take Tomatoes from random backyard farmers for a reason...

The insinuation above that meds grown by caregivers are full of chems and the meds grown by dispensaries are somehow better/safer is such a crock. Who will be more likely to use drastic measures to save a crop...the guy with a few plants in his basement, or the guy who's ENTIRE livlihood and the existence of his dispensary is hinging on his one warehose that is full of mites and PM?

Get real.

The State is requiring the dispensaries to grow their own and cut off the caregiver sales because of REVENUE/TAX INCOME...nothing else. This is the SAME reason CM has to buy tomatoes from licensed seller. It ISN'T about >quality<, it is about tracking $$$ to collect TAXES ON THOSE SALES.

Nothin more.

Ditto with MMJ.... The Revenue Dept cares not about the QUALITY of the pot grown, just want you to grow and sell as much "medical marijuana" as you can so they can collect tax money off it. Nothing else. Don't be fooled into thinking ANY of this was done with the average patient in mind or that it is about "quality control". It isn't. It's about the MONEY.

No, King Soopers doesn't buy local produce. That's why the tomatoes are green and hard..just like the fruit. It's MASS PRODUCED and held in cold storage until needed...and it's dumped on the market for the consumer to buy "as is", which is usually a gig where you have to take it home and ripen it (in the MMJ world, DRY IT OUT cus the dispensary sold it wet for weight) before you can eat it.

Welcome to the world of mass produced warehouse "med" pot! Coming soon to a patient near you....

[senorx12562]

Cannabis has been grown, bought, and sold for as long as there have been people, and I have been participating in that market in one way or another for about 40 years, and not once has the thought entered my head that "boy, I sure wish the government would get involved in this market. We really need regulating." Many posters on this site act as if is this is all new with the advent of "medical" marijuana. Trust me, it is not. As a matter of policy, ALL DRUGS, and most particularly cannabis, should be totally unregulated, except by the market itself, AND AVAILABLE TO ANY ADULT WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION AND WITHOUT LIMITATION. Deaths from acetaminophen number close to 1000 per year, and yet a 10 year old can walk into the grocery and buy 10 bottles of tylenol. There is absolutely no justification for treating cannabis any differently.

[senorx12562]

So as an example if King Soopers sold some E-Coli hamburger you would just stop shopping there? What about the 10 other stores that are also selling from the same vendor?

In the food sales industry, if there is an issue with a product there is a means to pull the product from shelves everywhere it exists.

If some vendor got crazy killing off the mites with avid 7 weeks into flower then hawked it at numerous shops, how could anybody know where it is to recall it?

Why do you think they killed off the vendor sales to dispensaries and forced dispensaries to grow their own ?

King Soopers doesn't take Tomatoes from random backyard farmers for a reason...
.. and the reason is not because the government tells them they can't. It's because they have to be accountable to their customers to stay in business.

[senorx12562]

The insinuation above that meds grown by caregivers are full of chems and the meds grown by dispensaries are somehow better/safer is such a crock. Who will be more likely to use drastic measures to save a crop...the guy with a few plants in his basement, or the guy who's ENTIRE livlihood and the existence of his dispensary is hinging on his one warehose that is full of mites and PM?

Get real.

The State is requiring the dispensaries to grow their own and cut off the caregiver sales because of REVENUE/TAX INCOME...nothing else. This is the SAME reason CM has to buy tomatoes from licensed seller. It ISN'T about >quality<, it is about tracking $$$ to collect TAXES ON THOSE SALES.

Nothin more.

Ditto with MMJ.... The Revenue Dept cares not about the QUALITY of the pot grown, just want you to grow and sell as much "medical marijuana" as you can so they can collect tax money off it. Nothing else. Don't be fooled into thinking ANY of this was done with the average patient in mind or that it is about "quality control". It isn't. It's about the MONEY.

No, King Soopers doesn't buy local produce. That's why the tomatoes are green and hard..just like the fruit. It's MASS PRODUCED and held in cold storage until needed...and it's dumped on the market for the consumer to buy "as is", which is usually a gig where you have to take it home and ripen it (in the MMJ world, DRY IT OUT cus the dispensary sold it wet for weight) before you can eat it.

Welcome to the world of mass produced warehouse "med" pot! Coming soon to a patient near you....
You are absolutely 100% correct. And my tomatoes are WAY better than King Soopers' too!

[copobo]

So as an example if King Soopers sold some E-Coli hamburger you would just stop shopping there? What about the 10 other stores that are also selling from the same vendor?

In the food sales industry, if there is an issue with a product there is a means to pull the product from shelves everywhere it exists.

If some vendor got crazy killing off the mites with avid 7 weeks into flower then hawked it at numerous shops, how could anybody know where it is to recall it?

Why do you think they killed off the vendor sales to dispensaries and forced dispensaries to grow their own ?

King Soopers doesn't take Tomatoes from random backyard farmers for a reason...

regulation isn't going to stop use of pesticides, nor will it end up on most labels.

if someone sprayed with avid on week seven, we'd smoke and never know.

what about farmers markets and all the little organic growers that sell to restaurants and people outside of the shopping CENTERS.

this regulation does nothing but protect the dispensaries, the big dispensaries especially.

they've re-gathered our rights, and they are selling them off.

[senorx12562]

Not really. Eight of the last ten years the DEA was riding around like cowboys kicking down doors nationwide. Only a fraction of Colorado's potential patients were being served in the days before Obama and dispensaries. The status quo is much better for everyone.
I've never heard of anyone who wanted to buy marijuana not being able to find some.

[blackhash]

It's been quite the scam/sham, hasn't it? Before last summer the patient-base was keeping fair pace with the needs of those who were truly qualified to enter the program. Yes there were glitches and it took pop-po awhile to get on board, but we were certainly making progress and NO ONE WAS REALLY WATCHING what was going on behind the scenes!

It wasn't until the dispensaries started signing up anyone with the $$ to play and started CREATING a larger need for "medical" marijuana that the illusion was created that there was a need for more dispensaries. (i, e. "supply") Once the neon pot leaves hit and the roadside signs went up the 'secret' game we had going was exposed and the changes came down the sewer pipe for all.

I like yer unregulated scenario, senor, especially in the marijuana world. Such legality and prevelance would squish this cureent >greed-based< model flat and would seperate out, much as we had previously/before july 20th 2009, those who are in this to help others and interested in moving things forward at a reasonable pace, and those who are only in this for themselves.

more change will come and I'll wager it won't be in favor of the current model.

[budsndrums]

Where have all the vendors gone? It's been awfully quiet around here lately.

I will be in to see you guys again in 4-6 weeks - "sell no wine before its time":smokin:

[Zedleppelin]

I will be in to see you guys again in 4-6 weeks - "sell no wine before its time":smokin:

Probably not since September 1 is the day they stop buying.

[colagal]

Cannabis has been grown, bought, and sold for as long as there have been people, and I have been participating in that market in one way or another for about 40 years, and not once has the thought entered my head that "boy, I sure wish the government would get involved in this market. We really need regulating." Many posters on this site act as if is this is all new with the advent of "medical" marijuana. Trust me, it is not. As a matter of policy, ALL DRUGS, and most particularly cannabis, should be totally unregulated, except by the market itself, AND AVAILABLE TO ANY ADULT WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION AND WITHOUT LIMITATION. Deaths from acetaminophen number close to 1000 per year, and yet a 10 year old can walk into the grocery and buy 10 bottles of tylenol. There is absolutely no justification for treating cannabis any differently.

Well, during the past 40 years (I was around during Woodstock as well), it wasn't exactly a free market until recently. It was an underground market. Nonetheless, people were free to OD as they wished, which they did often...but probably not as fatally as other drugs.


It wasn't until the dispensaries started signing up anyone with the $$ to play and started CREATING a larger need for "medical" marijuana that the illusion was created that there was a need for more dispensaries. (i, e. "supply") Once the neon pot leaves hit and the roadside signs went up the 'secret' game we had going was exposed and the changes came down the sewer pipe for all.

I like yer unregulated scenario, senor, especially in the marijuana world. Such legality and prevelance would squish this cureent >greed-based< model flat and would seperate out, much as we had previously/before july 20th 2009, those who are in this to help others and interested in moving things forward at a reasonable pace, and those who are only in this for themselves.


Generally, whether it is mm, or tomatoes, or any good, I suspect people nowadays prefer to shop at centers - much more convenient, there are more choices, etc. And the centers certainly took advantage once it became more of a free market....just like any commodity. Regulation is inevitable for the "public good" at these scales, especially when trying to legalize it. Not saying regulation is always effective, (probably mostly ineffective) but, even though it appears the general public distrusts government, they still look to government to help provide assurances - a kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't situation if you are in government.

[SoCoMMJ]

regulation isn't going to stop use of pesticides, nor will it end up on most labels.

No, I did not think it would. But if there was an issue with somebody's product you could track where it went and recall it.



if someone sprayed with avid on week seven, we'd smoke and never know.

I'm pretty sure testing is coming, and not too far down the timeline.



what about farmers markets and all the little organic growers that sell to restaurants and people outside of the shopping CENTERS.
They likely provide and invoice and contact info of some sort. If there was an issue it could be tracked. Vendors had always been cloaked in anonymity.



this regulation does nothing but protect the dispensaries, the big dispensaries especially.

I don't know how you can say that when a good portion of them were forced to close. The remaining ones were scrambling to hire growers. No protection is offered. The DEA can still kick in any door they want tomorrow.

Yes, I believe that the 5 caregiver limit is wrong and most likely unconstitutional. Don't get me wrong there. There was already enough business for to support the caregiver model in addition to to the dispensary model. Dispensaries did not need this bill to gain market share. However, I believe that the restriction was made to prevent 10kw+ grows in neighborhood basements when they should probably be in commercial/industrial locations.



they've re-gathered our rights, and they are selling them off.

Welcome to America... it's what we do to ourselves :(

[SoCoMMJ]

The insinuation above that meds grown by caregivers are full of chems and the meds grown by dispensaries are somehow better/safer is such a crock.
Get real.


I'm pretty sure that I wasn't insinuating that caregivers hose down their crops with a bunch of shit. The caregivers that I know do a great job of growing a quality product. You wanted an example, I provided a scenario where it would be good to know where the product came from besides "in through the back door from some guy".

RE: "Get real" Is that really necessary in a otherwise healthy discussion?



The State is requiring the dispensaries to grow their own and cut off the caregiver sales because of REVENUE/TAX INCOME...nothing else.

If that was the case, wouldn't they be requiring caregivers to pay sales taxes each month on sales? Instead they required the product sold for cost and charged additional for "service". There is no tax on service. When was the last time you paid sales tax ?



Welcome to the world of mass produced warehouse "med" pot! Coming soon to a patient near you....

You are convinced that a quality product can not be produced in a space larger than your basement. If the strains are the same, and the conditions are optimal, what makes the quality falter? Or are you saying that every commercial warehouse just grows 10,000 sf of Big Bud?

[blackhash]

Sorry about the get real comment.

FYI...I paid sales taxes the entire time I operated a retail business. Employee taxes too. FICA, Medicaid, etc. on top of that. That's cus it was a business with a storefront ya drive to that sold to anyone who walked in the door with the cash. (just like a dispensary is a business)

Up until 1284 passed I would have gladly pay sales tax on any med sales made. However, since they basically took my Amendment 20 RIGHTS away with 1284, there's just no way in Hell I would say the same thing today!

I believe that Patient groups are gonna boom very soon as supply wanes and fluctuates and the dispensaries become unreliable. By networking patients will be able to circumvent the entire dispensary model.

Crop quality from warehouse grows is yet to be seen. Basement grows have proven success to date and are what got this "industry" it's start.

And as far as the 5 patient cap somehow limiting 10K grows in residential neighorhoods...

I currently light 6 plants in bloom with 6K. I have 5 cards @ present. While I can currently take care of all of my patients needs with those 6 plants there is NOTHING that limits my right to set up as many lights as I need to cover the plant count (15 in flower) I am legally allowed under 1284/A20.

[SoCoMMJ]

Sorry about the get real comment.
It's all good. I enjoy a good discussion until people start pointing out what a prick I am. I like to save that for people that know me personally.



I believe that Patient groups are gonna boom very soon as supply wanes and fluctuates and the dispensaries become unreliable.
I'm not so sure that the supply is going to be as short as you think. There are some very large gardens in development across the state. If anything, I believe the market will become saturated. In the end that will be good for patients as the price point falls across the board.



By networking patients will be able to circumvent the entire dispensary model. I know people discuss the patient to patient sales, however I'm not yet convinced on the legality of that one yet. Somebody will have to run it through the courts to establish precedence.



Crop quality from warehouse grows is yet to be seen. Basement grows have proven success to date and are what got this "industry" it's start.
Yes, and that's where we started too. I can honestly say that the quality is the same. The warehouse has fewer heat issues and better ventilation so it may even be better. Quality has to do with strain, attention to detail, good nutes, lights, flushing properly, and not screwing it up. :)


And as far as the 5 patient cap somehow limiting 10K grows in residential neighorhoods... there is NOTHING that limits my right to set up as many lights as I need to cover the plant count
Right, and that's the problem they were adressing. If you are running 1k light per plant x your 15 plants that's 9x15 or 45-50 amps of power and heat. That is a LOT for a residence. If they had allowed 20 patients that would add up to like a bazillion amps. It would be like the Clark Griswold's house at Christmas time.

I was trying to infer that due to the dangers of pulling that much power over crappy residential wiring could prove to be a real issue if not done properly. You may be doing it right, but the next guy??? Lots of amps should probably be in industrial area was my point.

Not trying to say the 5 patient cap was right, just pointing out why they may have gone there.

[blackhash]

I here ya about "why" they THINK they are going there with such plant restrictions, but the dumbasses in power just don't understand that there are folks like me out there who...if SOMEHOW throttled back by zoning (I'll fight this in court) will merely DOUBLE their lighting to make up the slack that plant restrictions can impose!!

If I have to I'll light my 6 plants with that 20K of light they don't want in my home...lighting up the neighborhood like a Wal-Mart parking lot just to SPITE them....then I'll invite them over for tea and crumpets to check it all out. (the cops have been IN my med garden before and had to leave empty handed..WAHHHH) My home. my rights. Fuck off.

In other words... I too, am a prick. While others are afraid to speak/show their face I've been at every county meeting involving MMJ. they KNOW where I live and what I do and that i'm not gonna be silent and listen to their uninformed crap.

Pateint to patient sales may not be fully 'legal' under 1284 but the fact of the matter is that, like dealing illegally (which most of us did pre-med..don't lie, folks), it is very, very hard to track/prosecute such sales...(or most of us wouldn't be here right now...LOL) and yes,an arrest of this nature WILL be challenged in court because many of us believe that A-20 is unchangeable EXCEPT by a vote of the people. FWIW, I feel 100% that the dispensary model should have gone to a vote BEFORE regs were made to regulate it/legitimize it.

I wish you (your crew?) well in growing that warehouse full. I hope all the folks you employ hourly to tend this massive amount of ganja (and trim..holy shit..) care as much as you seem to care! Not ALL operations will be so "quality focused".

blackhash

[SoCoMMJ]

In other words... I too, am a prick.

Ahhhh the internets... the only place I know where a couple of pricks can come together for a common good :rasta:

[TheReleafCenter]

I'm not so sure that the supply is going to be as short as you think. There are some very large gardens in development across the state. If anything, I believe the market will become saturated. In the end that will be good for patients as the price point falls across the board.

I think that's the crux of the problem. You have very few people out there with the 501+ MMC license who will be in control of a vast majority of the supply.

[blackhash]

I think that's the crux of the problem. You have very few people out there with the 501+ MMC license who will be in control of a vast majority of the supply.

On the flip-side, this also means that supply could easily be interrupted should things go bad. I personally will be very surprised if these huge ops are allowed to stand because....just as folks are starting to realize that there are many. many residences being used to grow marijuana and are beginning to react to that fact in towns/etc across our state, once folks (again) realize that THOUSANDS of plants are being grown in their town in warehouses they are simply gonna go nuts and the emergency bans are gonna come down like lightning. I'd wager holder is also rethinking his stance after our legislators CHANGED the MMJ laws >>>after<<< he said he wouldn't come (for average folks growing 3/3, not 3000)

and geez.."Denver" needs to shut up...whether it be a loud mouthed councilwoman or the crap-ass rag the Post. Denver is MAKING A KILLING of MMJ and they want it all for themselves so they are swaying public opinion and forgetting we have RIGHTS. We gotta fight these bastards! ALL of em.

crazy crap