Any help on my fav NL plant

[LetsSeeYa]

Not sure, but im thinking its got a Nitrogen and Mag issue. So i have given it a shot of 15-20-15 with a 1/2 tsp of Epsom salts. Sure wish the site hadn't gone down. The yellow leaves are standing out way to much for security. Not sure i should have added the Epsom, but i had t try something. I pulled a few off as its sticking out way to much. Its been two days since i fed it and plan to give plain water today.

The plants leaves are very yellow and are looking very droopy. It is a re vegged plant. I have fed them all the same, but the others look fine. I have been feeding FF's Grow Big and Cha Ching about 2-3 times a week. But last time i was out there i noticed some burned leaves on top, but were gone on the next visit. This was when i saw all the yellowing, but had grown at least 6''. It has been a week since iv feed any of them, but the NL has the problem. Heres a few pics. First two are the sick NL and the third is a healthy one thats got all the same nutes and waterings. The plant is now over 6'.

If anyone has any ideas i would be greatful for any advise as this is my favorite plant i have. Thank you very much:thumbsup:



:rasta:

[LetsSeeYa]

I can only be on line for the next half hour, but will be back in about 3-4 hours. So any advise il get then, but would like to correct it before then, sorry just trying to catch some attention:hippy:




:rasta:

[LetsSeeYa]

Well i went out and took a current pic after two days of the dose of Epsom Sault's and the 15-20-15. I gave her a gallon of water with a bit of peroxide in it, 2tbls mix. Throwing the bus at her i guess.:wtf:

I noticed that all leaves are curled up, but this has been like this since it got to about 3' so i haven't made it a big deal as i thought it was enjoying the sun. Last couple weeks its been hotter then hell, 90's. Its cool now tho. Also after looking at this pic, the leaves are getting yellow a finger at a time. Also the edges are getting brown then yellowing the finger, while the other fingers are a lime green, getting ready to get yellow.

Help please. Over my head here.................



:rasta:

[Rusty Trichome]

Is the ground still draining water ok?
Ya didn't double-dose with the Cha Ching, did you?
Did you apply any type of mulch or topcoat unevenly?
Is one side of the rootball getting torched by the heat while the other side is protected by shade?
Have you looked closely at the dying leaves for insects or disease?
Is it possible a deer pissed near the root ball throwing-off the ph...?

[LetsSeeYa]

Is the ground still draining water ok?

Yes its draining as it did day one.


Ya didn't double-dose with the Cha Ching, did you?

No way and it only got 4-5 dose's starting in July, then only rain.



Did you apply any type of mulch or topcoat unevenly?

None, the only thing around the stock is steel wool, like the others.


Is one side of the rootball getting torched by the heat while the other side is protected by shade?

Nope, if anything the morning sun is over head, which makes the sun very even, then in early afternoon evening the foliage shades the ground around the plant.


Have you looked closely at the dying leaves for insects or disease?

Was the first thing i looked for, no bugs. Not sure on disease as the leaves get a finger yellow with some of them burnt at the tips and other fingers get lime green from the outside in and there is a brown spot on most yellow leaves..


Is it possible a deer pissed near the root ball throwing-off the ph...?

Well i guess so, but it would had to piss on the entire plant and its very tall now, would be one huge deer with a huge bladder as its from top to bottom. Oh, rootball, well could have but im sure its one big ball though, i have a ph tester, but never used it outside, but only to check nutes before givng them. It was 6.35, but im thinking it might be just a tad off and this ph is good anyway for outside. My water before nutes was 7.4, then i tested nute mix and it went down to the 6.35. Not sure how id use it outside. But only what i give it for food.

It started with just a few yellow leaves, but ya get this outside so no big deal, this was July 20th, now its all over. I also saw the top had burned, but i thought it was rain caught in the cupped up leaves after a brief rain, which i thought burned the plant. Little did i know this was a small issue.

I am going to cut the tops down a bit, like a top on each 4-5 branches. Cut off all yellow leaves in hopes the plant will concentrate on getting healthy and not growing more leaves, theres a ton of them on the plant. And im hoping the plant doesnt concentrate on my cuttings. The growth is very dense on all branches, almost like too much leaf growth.:wtf:

The brown spots worry me as most of the yellow leaves have a brown spot on them, but saw no bugs or mold or larva. This is killing me Rusty, im no pro, but can usually figure out a issue when i see it. But im lost with this one. I really like this stuff, it helps pain a lot without making me too sleepy, but helps me sleep when im ready. Im really bummed.


Thank you very much for helping Rusty:thumbsup:




:rasta:

[Rusty Trichome]

Was just kidding about the deep piss. :jointsmile:

Still on veg nutes...? Are you giving 'em any calcium?

Beyond the above questions, the only two things I can think of, are either the dying leaves were the sacrificail appendages so she could withstand the heat. (stealing from paul to keep peter hydrated)
Or,
Is there a shitload of steel wool, and is it rusting? (leeching into the ground) Possibly iron toxicity or causing some sort of interaction/nutrient lockout conditions...? Far fetched, but not being an outdoor grower I really don't know.

[LetsSeeYa]

Still on veg nutes...? Are you giving 'em any calcium?

After i saw all the massive amount of pistils, i started Grow Big, then Tiger Bloom with the Cha Ching, but its been a couple weeks of nothing but water. So no, not really. Before these i used the 15-20-15 stuff to get them up and green to keep the bugs off, it worked. I saw something interesting il post after this one, need to look it up, but not a great site. Thing is it made sense.

What can i use for calcium around the house, any ideas?


Beyond the above questions, the only two things I can think of, are either the dying leaves were the sacrificail appendages so she could withstand the heat. (stealing from paul to keep peter hydrated)

Never seen it before, but i haven't grown any in this heat before. And could be. Its 89 now and is going to be like this all week, way to hot for me as i cant sweat at all, so i gotta be careful. Result of my broken neck as most people with paralysis cant, in less there is a problem with your body, then its a warning to the body. Its bad when it gets this hot and humid.



Is there a shitload of steel wool, and is it rusting? (leeching into the ground) Possibly iron toxicity or causing some sort of interaction/nutrient lockout conditions...? Far fetched, but not being an outdoor grower I really don't know.

Well before using the steel wool i looked all over the net for harmful affects of the steel wool rusting. I found nothing at all and thought it may give me a bit of iron to the plant if anything and the Edna has 2x the amount. There is only one roll on the NL, but im taking it off all plants now as the snails are not bad now. I gave a bit of Epsom with the 15-20-15 ferts 3 days ago, but didn't go out today, not feeling well, its way hot here, i dont know how ya take the heat out there Rusty. Its supposed to rain the next two days so it will wash the plant out or just get it down into the roots better. I expect it to go one way or the other.


Thanks for the ideas Rusty as it must be one of the issues you or i mentioned, i think its a waiting game with this rain coming now. They will perk up most often when i get a good rain. I also wondered if it had any thing to do with it being a re veg with this strain, but just a thought.


Thanks again guy:rasta:

[Rusty Trichome]

What can i use for calcium around the house, any ideas?
I use unsulfered molasses. Cheap yet effective. 1 tsp per gallon per week is what I use indoors. Not too sure about for outdoors, but I would start there. Keep in mind that the molasses acts like a nutrient 'kicker' so minor nutrient burn is possible even with your normal nutrient schedule.

Was grasping for straws with the steel wool suggestion, but thought I'd throw it out there. Might be better to handle the leaf issue rather than risk snail damage.

If you are not providing enough nitrogen in veg, likely the plant will scavange it elsewhere. (like...from her fan leaves)

Good luck, and don't hurt yourself playing in the mud. :thumbsup:

[LetsSeeYa]

So iv read till i cant take it anymore. It almost is like i have every issue there could be in the book. Its way worse then it was before i used the crap above. Leaves have more brown spots and even saw some on the many pistils. Over half the plant is yellow now and the buds are getting long, but not filling in. Like i said its my favorite plant, but i really dont want to affect the plants in the last pic, if its possible as im not finding any remedy to take care of its problem.

Leaves are twisting and curling up with brown spots all over the plants leaves and tips. Even where leaves have fallen the stems are brown like rot. If anyone thinks i can save it let me know, because its a waste of space if this continues. Its gotta be a disease or something as i really have not feed the plant much in the last 2weeks. I fed it 3 times i think is all. Just trying to let the over growth pick up a bit out there and my others look great in pic 5. One smack in the middle then over top of it and all the way to the right. So if it is some shit my others could get il chop her as the big one is 10' away from her.

If i saw this id say i burned it up but like i said, last two weeks its been on its own and this started a ways back, but progressed fast. Its been hot all year, but cooler as of late, but its getting hot again all week.

I saw no bugs, snails or anything that could be making the brown spots on the leaves. I gave a lot f ferts in July and maybe to much, but near to nothing as of late and i really dont think that giving them ferts now will solve my problem. Its gotta be some sorta disease, well i think:wtf:

Any ideas let me know please:thumbsup:


:rasta:

[Rusty Trichome]

Might be a good idea to fill-out the troubleshooting form, so we can see what's been going on. Looks to me like ph swings and nutrient lock-out.
Any way to accurately test the soil ph about half a foot down, to see if the soil buffers are still working...?

Did you double-up on molasses or start the use of a new additive? Looks like root issues, either way. You're not using molasses AND magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) are you...?

How's the main stem look? Any breaks or splits? Any part of it discoloring or looking 'weird'?

[bobjob4u]

Wish i could help out. I do NL every season outdoors. I keep things simple. Dig down 2-3 feet deep and 1-2 wide place proper soil . feed once and awhile let nature take over. somtimes i think trying to many different things to correct a minor problem cause more problems. I know a few of mine yellowed a little at bottom and in the middle. Due to heat this season. Also what is your water source. Outdoors when it gets hot. water sourses dry or slow up. that will cause a serious swing in your waters constistensy. aspeacally if in an area with higher iron or sulphur content. or areas with lots of limestone or what have ya. Happen to me. was giving them bad ph water and they showed. Just somthing to throw out there and to think about maybe. hope they work out. good luck and listen to rusty he know what he is doing . nothing he suggest to me every was wrong...

[LetsSeeYa]

Might be a good idea to fill-out the troubleshooting form, so we can see what's been going on. Looks to me like ph swings and nutrient lock-out.
Any way to accurately test the soil ph about half a foot down, to see if the soil buffers are still working...?

I can try, but never tried in an outdoor plant. iL TRY THOUGH.


Did you double-up on molasses or start the use of a new additive? Looks like root issues, either way. You're not using molasses AND magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) are you...?

The only molasses iv given was in the beginning of July twice at 1 tbs per one gallon of water. I gave 1/2 tbs of Epsom salts with the ferts last week, Mon.


How's the main stem look? Any breaks or splits? Any part of it discoloring or looking 'weird'?

The stem looks great, its getting bigger. Only thing that looks odd was the root bumps on the bottom, but thats normal as every plant iv grow looked like this. No brakes or splits.


What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)

Novice id say.

Your Equipment: The Sun

.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)

.2) Distance from tops?

.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...)

.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply?

.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan?

.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule?

Your medium: Outdoor grow with great soil, 30 year cow field before we built the house.

.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...)

.8) Size of container. In ground

.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings?
No


Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's Ph before adjusting?

Well water, 7.5

11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...)

Ph pen to test water


12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...)

Never tried before


13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.

June was all porpoise 15-20-15. July iv used 2-3 feedings of FF Big Bloom with cHA Ching MIX used as the product said on back.


14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering?

In July it got mostly rain and only the additives listed above.


15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)

Maybe 3-4 doses of molasses and the one feeding of Epsom salts.

16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate?

Not really sure how to check ph outside? Where do i get run off from? Checked Ph of water before FF nutes, it was 7.4, then after adding nutes it was 6.4 or 6.5.

17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph?

How do i get run off outside?

18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray?

No but thought about using baking soda, but have not, till advised. Iv tried enough on my own. Over my head now with rot like crap on the plant, but one side is better after dead or yellowing was removed. Thought about removing more to see if it might help. but? waiting for advise.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?)

NL#5

24) From seeds or clones?

Re vegged plant. Its close to 6 months old


25) Is this an autoflower strain?

No

Each leaf has a brown spot on it, then they turn yellow, but most turn one finger at a time. Leaf tips get brown after brown spot appears. But some leaves are yellow w/o brown spots, but maybe just used up leave. Most leaves do have a brown spot on them. But also they start with one finger getting yellow as the others get a lime green color. Almost seems like rot, but if so it would have to be the roots.

This pic was 7-20, but noticed the bad yellowing on 7-30 and in between the 10 days the plant got nothing at all, but rain, thats it. I went back on 7-30 and got this. Seemed to start with older leaves, but you can see the brown spots.

One other note is i used 7 dust in the beginning of June, but did not notice any thing to blame it on the dust.

Well thats all the info i got, sorry about my organization of my grow, its something i need to work on as i have no real feeding schedule. I just look at the plant to see if it needs fed and planned to only give solubles from FF for the rest of the year. Last year i tasted my nutes and dont want a repeat of that. Want nature to grow them as they should.


Thanks, very much


:rasta:

[LetsSeeYa]

I filled the trouble shooting form out and took a few close up pics today. Not sure if iv done something to help it or its just that iv tried to remove the dead crap, but looks better. Still looks like hell tho. It rained, but now the sun is out with the humidity at about 22,467, lol. Very hot an sticky, but my other plants look like a pic in High Times. Not all yellow, but looks as healthy as can be. I really would like to figure this out, but in my goggles, all iv found was it could be a fungi or rot?

I pull everything that looks bad and thought about a anti fungal product. I have the 7 dust, but dont think it would help this issue. And thought about using baking soda in a spray bottle, but not sure this would help.:( The really dark crap on the plant is whats got me worried, because if it was only the leaf i would think there is a cure, not if its rotting under ground. But has been with less water and nutes all July and not a thing since the pic above on July 20th or 22nd. But looking at this pic closer, i can see it started at this time with lime color fingers and a few leaves yellow with the brown spots on them.



Any advise is very, very appreciated, like ya never know. Man am i glad i have a clone from it, no effects from its mom.


:rasta:

[Rusty Trichome]

Sorry. Went to answer your post this morning, but a family crisis pulled me back off the computer.


I can try, but never tried in an outdoor plant. iL TRY THOUGH.
...

The only molasses iv given was in the beginning of July twice at 1 tbs per one gallon of water. I gave 1/2 tbs of Epsom salts with the ferts last week, Mon.
I have no idea about outdoor dilution rates for molasses, but indoors I give 1 tsp per gallon. One of the advantages to using molasses is that it is a great source of calcium and magnesium. Have you read the Epsom Salts Is Not A Miracle Cure thread? Anyway...I'm not sure adding more Epsom was a good thing.


The stem looks great, its getting bigger. Only thing that looks odd was the root bumps on the bottom, but thats normal as every plant iv grow looked like this. No brakes or splits.
Cool. Guess we might be able to rule-out disease or bacterial infections.


What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)

Novice id say.
Unnecessary


Your Equipment: The Sun
Cool


.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)
.2) Distance from tops?
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...)
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply?
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan?
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule?
Obviously unnecessary.


Your medium: Outdoor grow with great soil, 30 year cow field before we built the house.
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...)
.8) Size of container. In ground
This is one of the things I was wondering about with growing outdoors.
Personally...if I were spending many months tending a plant and counting on it's performance, I'd pull-back on using native soils, and use something of which I knew what I was working with, and what I could expect next month, or next season...but this is an ignorant statement, because I have no practical idea which would be better, lol. I can think of pro's and con's for each method.



Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's Ph before adjusting?
Well water, 7.5
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...)
Ph pen to test water
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...)
Never tried before
Again...another difference between the outdoors and indoors. Indoors, we maintain a ph range of between 6.3 and 6.8 (in a a peat-based medium) because of nutrient lockout issues. But if you've been having success doing what you are doing, what the heck...



13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.

June was all porpoise 15-20-15. July iv used 2-3 feedings of FF Big Bloom with cHA Ching MIX used as the product said on back.
Have you looked at the FF website for directions on using their products? The weekly feeding schedule is a pretty solid schedule. The Cha Ching is a deadly product to be used sparingly, especially in conjunction with any other nutrient or additive. This might be your culprit in all this. I used 1/16th of a teaspoon in a gallon of water, in conjunction with the Tiger Bloom (bloom nutrients) and the Big Bloom. (a catalyst tea) I still have most of my Cha Ching left, as I only use it occationally. Too much of a pain to dial it in for each strain.


17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph?
How do i get run off outside?
<sigh>

My official guess is that it might be the Cha Ching working harder than you'd like. I'd discontinue it's use till you get a handle on proper use, or at least until the plant improves. Some of my strains don't like the stuff at all. (mainly the more sensitive ativa's)

The leaf cankers might be neckrosis as a result of the plant scavenging the mobile nutrients from the (now dying) leaves, due to some sort of lockout. Normally they yellow, then brownish spots. Yours go beyond that though, and develop what looks like mold spots. Perhaps the necrotic tissue is becoming host to the mold, what with all that humidity.

Again...just a guess. I wish some experienced growers would offer ya some help, but it looks like that's not going to happen.

[nugssgalore]

OMG those plants are huge. As a longtime gardener I would say stop giving her all that extra stuff and leave her alone for awhile with just plain water. She will finish out her buds and you don't need those yellow leaves anyway.

[nugssgalore]

After looking at all your pics it does seem like your sick plant has some type of mildew/mold or wilt much like I have seen sometimes on tomato plants. The easiest treatment for that and will not effect your plants is to dilute some skim milk with water in a spray bottle and spray the effected foliage. 2 to 3 Tablespoons of milk per quart of water. This kills mildew and fusarium wilt on tomato plants but you have to get underneath the leaves also....big job for those big plants and spray it every other day or so. Good luck.

[Rusty Trichome]

Unless it's spreading rapidly, I think I'd identify the substance before going off half-cocked. And is spraying a plant in high humidity a good idea? (just wonderin')

[nugssgalore]

Good question about the humidity...I live in an area that doesnt have that problem in late summer. Couldn't hurt to mix a little baking soda with the diluted skim milk solution. I do that for my roses in the spring when the humidity is high and they have the white type of mildew. This looks more like a fusarium wilt problem or something that is coming from stressed out roots. BTW the one year I used a tablespoon of epsom salts in the bottom of planting holes for my tomatoes was the worst year ever. They hated it.

[Rusty Trichome]

Cool insight about the epsom salt. But using it straight is a bad idea to begin with. Just sits there waiting to burn unsuspecting roots. Watered-in or diluted and sprayed is a much better idea.
On my roses I used to use the...what is it...? Black mold spray, I think. But I live in the desert, and don't that problem any more. :thumbsup:
I think if we can identify and correct what's ailing his NL, any additional spraying would be unnecessary. Plus, spraying unnecessarily might cause more heartache than relief, ya know...?

It might be that in the long run, mold or mildew spraying is necessary. But unless it's an emergency, I'd rather see him fix the problem rather than masking it up. :thumbsup:

[LetsSeeYa]

A buddy said it could be Blight, but is not sure. Anyone seen it before on mj i cant find anything on the net, but veggies.?



:rasta:

[Hempsouth]

Research Septoria and the different blights.