A Critical Standpoint on Smoking Marijuana

[GreenGaucho]

After reading these forums for around a month, and attempting to comprehend certain statements that have been made about smoking marijuana, Iâ??ve decided to write a few of my thoughts about this ever so interesting plant. Let me first say that in no way am I against people smoking it, and I hope you can try to listen what Iâ??m attempting to get across with an open mind. Hopefully it will make for good discussion, as I am trying to understand why certain people think they way they do about this plant.
First of all, Iâ??m completely in support of people who use it recreationally everyday, and find it a relaxing hobby or a way to socialize with friends. I myself, love smoking a bowl or blunt every now and then amongst my friends and sharing stories. I also believe it has certain medicinal qualities to it. It can help with glaucoma, arthritis, and may even be able to help against tumors and things of that sort. Certainly one can argue that it is for the most part, a harmless weed. The trouble starts when those who use it recreationally, try to argue that smoking it â??is completely harmlessâ?� and there is no scientific proof behind claims that it can be dangerous. It seems to me that many users try to legitimize their problems with smoking by spewing out irrational lies. One great example is this particular quote from a recent thread. â??Hell no I wont admit cannabis is a bad thing. They still have yet to prove it causes any life threatening damage to the lungs.â?� As I stated above, of course itâ??s not a bad thing. But claiming that smoking does nothing negative to the lungs is just ridiculous. One person who seems to agree with me recently stated, â??I don't see how anybody can logically say it's 100% harmless. You can smoke marijuana, tobacco, a rolled up piece of old carpet, a leaf off a tree. Regardless, anything smoked is gonna clog up your lungs, restrict oxygen flow, and gunk up the works.â?� The whole reason why people cough when taking a large hit is because the body is attempting to rid itself of something thatâ??s not supposed to be there. Just ask the girl from a recent topic who claims that she has recently been experiencing â??Smokerâ??s Coughâ?� and that sheâ??s spitting up gross mucus. Anyway, it seems for a person to argue against something so concrete would be like banging your head on a brick wall. On to my next point, which is certainly up to more debate.
The long-term effects of THC on the human brain are highly disputed. THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, has effects which include relaxation, euphoria, altered space-time perception, enhancement of visual, auditory, and olfactory senses, disorientation, and appetite stimulation. To me, these are the things that make people love smoking in the first place and this seems evident when I see my friends and I laughing at rediculous things. =) However, smokers often tend to dismiss the claim that these effects are sometimes very dangerous and can have very serious consequences. Things like reduced reaction time are what make smoking and driving dangerous. I also believe that THC truly is addictive in a sense. Many who smoke everyday claim to not be addicted at all, but my experiences say otherwise. Though it may not be as physically addicting as other drugs and alcohol, mentally itâ??s very addicting. The fact that many tokers spend a large part of their paycheck every week would suggest this. Many of my friends would rather spend their money on weed than save up for an investment that would help them in the future. I have nothing against it, but I guarantee if these people were to suddenly stop having a constant intake of THC, they would experience withdrawal symptoms and would probably be very irritable for awhile. I have seen this countless times, with many people. The rejection of the idea that cannabis does have addictive qualities to it, seems closely correlated to typical immature teenage boy attitude. (i.e.. nothing can keep them down, they can stop whenever they want to, feelings of invicibility, etc.) Surely there are those who can quit for the most part, but for the majority of people, itâ??s simply not the case.
Another way in which I think marijuana can be harmful that most smokers donâ??t seem to recognize, is the lazyness that often ensues. Sure you can make the concious decision to go out and run, or get work done, but that is not the natural effect of THC. The natural reaction to smoking cannabis is to be more relaxed and a feeling of euphoria. People use it to feel detached from reality. Just look at the indica plant and the natural â??couch-lockâ?� effect it has or the mental distortion caused by Sativa plants.. In my opinion, people can do whatever they want with their lives, but denying that itâ??s more than often counter-productive seems illogical. There are those who claim is helps them with certain tasks such as writing and I respect that.
In conclusion, smoking can be a fun, relaxing thing to do after a dayâ??s hard work or when you want to just chill with some buddies. It should be kept in moderation though, and there are those who deny the negative effects, and act as though they canâ??t be hurt by it. As shown in the topic titled â??ignoranceâ?�, smokers sometimes exibit a feeling of â??higher-intelligenceâ?� when non-smokers tell them that itâ??s not exactly healthy. And to the younger, teenage audience on these forums, parents are a valuable source of information and more than often know whatâ??s best for you. If they want you to not smoke so much, try your best to uphold their wishes. Sure it may seem oppressive now, but then again, your mind is devoloping and you eventually know why. When you get out there in the world by yourself, you will have your own household and can make your own decisions about your body. As a smoker myself, I ADMIT that it certainly isnâ??t a healthy thing to do, and try not to legitimize the reasons as to why I smoke. I like it because it messes me up, just like most other people do. Sadly, I am one of the few who will admit this.

[Lightitup44]

You might be "one of the few who will admit this" because some people might feel different about this subject because they have different smoking patterns. They might also have different experiances than you which makes them feel different about the use of cannabis.

This is where I totally disagree....You said, "As shown in the topic titled “ignorance”, smokers sometimes exibit a feeling of “higher-intelligence” when non-smokers tell them that it’s not exactly healthy." Through all of my encounters(sp) I have yet to find a number of non-smokers that seem to know lots on any subject of cannabis yet alone the health effects. Many can say its bad for you which i very clearly understand, but they can't say why its bad for you and how bad for you this is. Besides the fact that it is bad for your lungs because of tar and other chemicals.

Most smokers are of the "higher intelligence" because they read up about cannabis and know lots about it where as many people who don't smoke aren't going to go look up facts and information on cannabis. My $0.02.

-peace

[GreenGaucho]

I agree, but a lot of the things I've said came from observing my friends who do smoke everyday, and probably have a different outlook on the subject.

[ermitonto]

It seems to me that many users try to legitimize their problems with smoking by spewing out irrational lies. One great example is this particular quote from a recent thread. â??Hell no I wont admit cannabis is a bad thing. They still have yet to prove it causes any life threatening damage to the lungs.â?�

That's not really an irrational lie. Fact is, there really is no proof that it causes any life threatening damage to the lungs. Sure, it may not be the best thing for the lungs but there's not any case in the history of mankind of it killing anyone.

Truth is, you can't really say anything is completely harmless. Anything you put into your body has the potential to hurt you. Even a benign-looking glass of water could cause serious problems if say your epiglottis sends it into your lungs rather than your stomach by mistake (it happens), and you can even die of water intoxication if you drink too much.

Thus it is up to the individual to take an assessment of the risks of their own actions. My own assessment of the risks associated with cannabis has concluded that the advantages (relaxation, social benefits, and feeling so damn good) far outweigh whatever potential health problems there might be (none so far except sometimes I'll hack up a brown loogie). The way I look at it is that I only have a few decades of consciousness to enjoy on this planet, and cannabis helps me enjoy it a lot more and it doesn't look like it'll take any years off of my time.

I smoke every day, upwards of a quarter ounce a week, and I don't see any reason to cut back. With weed, money truly can buy happiness, so why not?

[GHoSToKeR]

I totally agree with you, ermitonto!

Fruit is good for you, we all know this.. But if a person was to consume large amounts of fruit, they would feel some negative effects.. However, this does not mean that fruit is bad for you. See what i'm saying? Like I said in the other thread, i's all about moderation. I definately don't smoke every day (at least not anymore) and I feel better for it... when I do smoke, I get a hell of alot higher, my highs last longer, etc, and I enjoy it more... But when I have smoked every day, I was still able to function, go to school/work, etc, without any negative effects. Just because some people are irresponsible and get high before work/school, become lazy, etc, it doesnt mean that weed is to blame.

GreenGaucho, you almost claim that people are lying to themselves about the negative effects of Cannabis? Well, I say that you're lying to yourself, also. You're trying to blame Cannabis for people's failures.

[koshea]

i 100% agree with you green goucho

smoking anything is bad for you

it is maiming my health and ruining my mind, im addicted, but im to ignorant to care, and its odd that i know my own ignorance but it hink the lazyness by weed has caused that.

this post was not sarcastic even though it sounded so

[GHoSToKeR]

to each his own, i guess... =/

[GreenGaucho]

I'm glad to see someone agrees koshea. I think a lot of smokers would agree, but are in denial. And to ermitonto and ghostoker. Water and fruit aren't really good points guys... I understand that everything is ok in moderation, but marijuana is NEVER healthy even in the smallest amounts unless you're talking about helping glaucoma, arthritis, etc. Water is essential to the body and our bodies consist of a large % of water. Without it we die. Fruit, is a vital source of Vitamin C and other nutrients. Without it diseases like scurvy and other such things show up. You gotta remember I'm talking from a purely scientific, biological standpoint.

"GreenGaucho, You almost claim that people are lying to themselves about the negative effects of Cannabis? Well, I say that you're lying to yourself, also. You're trying to blame Cannabis for people's failures."

No I'm not. People decide things on their own, and it's entirely their mistakes. I'm just pointing out the fact that marijuana doesn't help these situations at all. Removing yourself from reality isn't the right course of action.

[Nugs4Me]

I have nothing against it, but I guarantee if these people were to suddenly stop having a constant intake of THC, they would experience withdrawal symptoms and would probably be very irritable for awhile. I have seen this countless times, with many people.

Well, as you said, it's mentally addictive. I've never been physically or mentally addicted to Cannabis. I've recently been smoking around a half oz. a week. Now I know that's a lot for ONE person to smoke. I stopped "cold turkey" for a week. I didn't feel different whatsoever. I think that the mental addiction is pure BS. I don't see how you can come to yourself saying "oh i need this OMG!" You don't need to smoke "just because" and I think that has a huge impact witht he mental addicion game. I guess it does happen though, but you're just doing it to yourself.

Great post BTW.

p.s. paragraphs = easy for the eyes :)

[GreenGaucho]

I'm sure there are some people like you Nugs4Me, who have no problem about not becomming addicted to a substance. However, I would argue that most peole have it in their genetics to become easily addicted. As the grandson of absolutely alcoholic grandparents and having an uncle who was so addicted to heroin that he was living in the streets, I know I had better keep everything I do in moderation. I smoke maybe twice a month, if that. I fear that if I did it more often, I would certainly become hooked on smoking weed.

[STlLLlRlSE]

I been smoking practically everyday for 3 years, and last month i quit smokin for a week because i couldn't seem to get "as high" anymore, well in the week i quit, i had no problem quiting, i just had problems sleeping and i couldn't eat much as of when i'm stoned, i felt like i was on tweek or something, so i don't think it is addicting, but everyone is differen't i guess.
But of course when i finally tasted the sweetness of herb again, i realized hom much i love it. -Peace

[GHoSToKeR]

GreenGaucho:

" Fruit, is a vital source of Vitamin C and other nutrients. Without it diseases like scurvy and other such things show up."

This is true. But, as I said, consuming large amounts of fruit would be detrimental to your health.. (I know from experience, I used to be addicted to oranges as a kid, lol), but they are still considered 'good' because in moderation they are extremely benifitical.

This is the way I see Cannabis. True, it can be detrimental to your health if you consume large amounts of it, but in small amounts it can have both positive physical and mental effects.

In my personal experience, Cannabis has helped me to clear my mind, put my life into perspective, become inspired, happier, etc.. So if it can have these positive effects in moderate doses, I believe that my physical self is also benifiting - your state of mind effects your physical health.

So, in light of this, why isnt it a 'good point' to compare it to fruit?

[GreenGaucho]

GreenGaucho:

" Fruit, is a vital source of Vitamin C and other nutrients. Without it diseases like scurvy and other such things show up."

This is true. But, as I said, consuming large amounts of fruit would be detrimental to your health.. (I know from experience, I used to be addicted to oranges as a kid, lol), but they are still considered 'good' because in moderation they are extremely benifitical.

This is the way I see Cannabis. True, it can be detrimental to your health if you consume large amounts of it, but in small amounts it can have both positive physical and mental effects.

In my personal experience, Cannabis has helped me to clear my mind, put my life into perspective, become inspired, happier, etc.. So if it can have these positive effects in moderate doses, I believe that my physical self is also benifiting - your state of mind effects your physical health.

So, in light of this, why isnt it a 'good point' to compare it to fruit?I agree that it can have positive mental effects. Are they the correct way of dealing with things? That's debateable. Also, what positive physical effects are there from smoking? I sure as hell don't know any.

[ermitonto]

marijuana is NEVER healthy even in the smallest amounts unless you're talking about helping glaucoma, arthritis, etc.

How so? If something is unhealthy even in the smallest amounts, that means it always causes damage to the body somehow. If you eat or drink weed, it causes no known adverse health effects at all. THC has not been shown to cause brain problems. Its effects on the brain are "disputed" only in that people who are already convinced pot is evil have tried (unsuccessfully) to link THC with killing brain cells and destroying memory and such, but all they've been able to show conclusively is that short-term memory is affected for as long as you're high.

The only real health disadvantages seem to be in the act of smoking itself (which again is not the only method of ingestion). It's been linked to pre-cancerous cells (not to actual outbreaks of cancer though) and bronchitis and such, but the effects are nowhere near as bad as tobacco. That doesn't make it completely harmless, but it's remarkably non-toxic especially when compared to other recreational drugs (alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, cocaine and heroin are the five most popular; it's pretty easy to pick out the one that's least harmful).

And call me crazy, but I think there are certain health benefits to smoking pot even for people who don't have certain serious diseases. I've found it help me with nausea and appetite problems when I have a cold, for instance. It also reduces stress, which is bound to have a positive impact on health. Laughter is also thought to be good for health. And although I may be more likely to get bronchitis, I know it's now extremely unlikely I'll ever develop glaucoma. That's not to say the health benefits outweigh the health risks for the recreational smoker, but at worst it's a mixed blessing.

[GHoSToKeR]

Again, ermitonto, I agree with you!

The only negative effects from Cannabis are from the act of SMOKING Cannabis, not the drug itself. All the claims of it causing psychosis etc are unsubstantiated.

There are, however, many positive mental effects, such as euphoria, relaxation, etc.. I myself disagree with taking prescribed drugs to treat a mental illness/problem, as I believe you should deal with the problem yourself; face-to-face, so to speak. But, I am not claiming that Cannabis should be used to make you happy if you are sad, make your calm if you are angry, make you stop feeling depressed. I do feel, however, that for the majority of people, who are not depressed and have no adverse mental conditions, that Cannabis can enhance your feelings, and have many mental benifits. People who are naturally disposed to being stressed out (not people who are stressed because of a situation or some such thing, these kinds of people should solve the issue themselves first) can use Cannabis as a way of clarifying their mind and putting their life into perspective, as I have done.

"Also, what positive physical effects are there from smoking? I sure as hell don't know any."

Cannabis is known to have many positive phsycial effects, hence Medical Marijuana. It can provide pain relief for all sorts of people, including cancer sufferers, and relief for people with glaucoma, etc..

When I was referring to physical effects, however, I was reffering to the power of mind over body. It is a known fact that depressed and/or stressed people are more prone to illness. It is also a known fact that happier, more relaxed people tend to be healthier. This is because your mind has healing power of its own. If you treat your mind right, it will treat you right. Hence, I believe that the mental benifits of Cannabis can equate to physical benifits.

[Lightitup44]

Although this is a serious topic I have to point out the funniest thing I have heard all day:

Ghostoker "(I know from experience, I used to be addicted to oranges as a kid, lol)"

-peace

[4252]

This is a good discussion; if people have different opinions, it doesn't necessarily follow that someone is right, someone is wrong. It's a good thing to question what we do from time to time, especially those things we enjoy a lot. So, no statistics here, just personal experience and observations.

About the health implications, I wouldn't deny that inhaling smoke is not harmful, to some degree. That's about all I know on the subject.

But on the addictive qualities, I've got some thoughts. We all have things we like that might fit the textbook definition of addiction, except for the biophysical manifestations. Music, political beliefs, sex, religion, lust for control, etc. have all caused some people to indulge in behavior that defies sense, sometimes in spite of obvious serious negative consequences. Even withdrawal from the various things I mentioned have a negative impact on many. I guess that the term "psychological addiction" is the one most used, even by the anti-pot side. The best they can do is say that, in so many words, some people have a preferrence for something that helps them feel good, and it makes them sulky when they can't get it. I can relate to this; I have to "kick" the habit every 3 months, due to the drug testing program where I work. And I do find that irritating, but only because someone's imposing their will on me, not due to a "need". So I associate the word need with the generally accepted definition of addiction, and the word want with ones prefferences.

As for the effect on my personal performance, I usually experience an increase in energy levels when I'm in that short time period when I can get stoned frequently. I clean up the house more, focus better on projects, just generally seem to be more alert and wanting to do things. Not to mention an increase in my desire to interact more with people. This could be self delusion, or a particular psychological character trait of mine; I don't pretend to know the cause, only stating the effects. I do seem to be more creative, and enjoy things more. But no withdrawal symptoms; it's just a thing that happens.

Also, and I'm not so sure this is universally true, I've read that the effects of THC vary in an individual relative to the dose; in lighter doses it acts like a stimulant, and past some point, it begins to supress a persons energy, like a sedative. With me, this seems to be true, and I don't like to use so much it interferes with my ability to do things, only enjoy it when it enhances what I'm doing.

I think that mind altering substances attract a lot of people who already have issues, and it may be that any study of effects would be heavily biased if this weren't taken into account.

What do you think?

42

[4252]

Too late for an edit, so....

I meant to say "I wouldn't deny that inhaling smoke is harmful", etc.

42

[koshea]

Well, as you said, it's mentally addictive. I've never been physically or mentally addicted to Cannabis. I've recently been smoking around a half oz. a week. Now I know that's a lot for ONE person to smoke. I stopped "cold turkey" for a week. I didn't feel different whatsoever. I think that the mental addiction is pure BS. I don't see how you can come to yourself saying "oh i need this OMG!" You don't need to smoke "just because" and I think that has a huge impact witht he mental addicion game. I guess it does happen though, but you're just doing it to yourself.

Great post BTW.

p.s. paragraphs = easy for the eyes :)


marijuna is additive and has physical withdrawl symptoms, when i got longe than 2 days without TCH intake i can not sleep, i get anxious, bored, un-attentive ect...i can quit smoking, i have before, but i dont want to yet, i figure ill smoke till im ready to give it up for good so i only gotta go through withdrawl once more

[koshea]

one more thing to add to the arguement, my girlfriends father has under a month to live. he is dying of lung cancer and he never smoked tobacco. the only thing he ever smoked was weed his entire life. now he is dying of lung cancer. carcinogins kill. but shortening my life is worth experiancing everything life has to offer, every sensation...soberity, fucked up ness, love, hate, pain, pleasure..ect

[Mojavpa]

one more thing to add to the arguement, my girlfriends father has under a month to live. he is dying of lung cancer and he never smoked tobacco. the only thing he ever smoked was weed his entire life. now he is dying of lung cancer. carcinogins kill. but shortening my life is worth experiancing everything life has to offer, every sensation...soberity, fucked up ness, love, hate, pain, pleasure..ect

I'm sorrry,Toshea. :( I wouldnt doubt if one day scientists do find a definative link between lung cancer and smoking pot. I mean, how much stress can you put your lungs under everyday until the cells start mutating and become cancerous? I really doubt that someone who smokes marijuana like cigarettes has the exact same chance of developing lung cancer has someone who has never smoked anything in his life. But the only way to do unbiased and honest scientific study on any substance is by legalizing it!!!!

[GHoSToKeR]

You probably do feel withdrawel symptons when you stop smoking Cannabis, but I imagine you only get withdrawal symptons if you go from smoking frequently to not smoking at all or nearly not at all.

Again, i'll refer back to fruit (lol). If you were to eat fruit every single day, like clockwork, and then suddenly you stopped eating fruit, you would experience withdrawal symptons.. This doesn't mean that fruit is addictive, it just means that you had grown accustomed to eating certain amounts of it or at certain times.

Same for weed.

[2600]

Green- first off I agree with most of your points. It looks like you have put some thought into this, though you might have had more open consideration about it had you taken a different approach.

You kind of put it in "term paper" format, with a conclusion and everything lol-That's fine, but describing what being high feels like to a weed forum might come across as condescending(especially in that jr high health textbook way- I felt like tetrahydrocannabinol should have been in bold font with thc in parenthesis after it, lol does anyone remember those books with all the drugs defined this way?).

But anyways, there is no disputing you win the argument concerning the harm/risk of smoking anything. Yeah, you can say anything, even fruit lol, can also be hazardous...

But... if we assume that slipping on a banana peel and inhaling a glass of water are NOT the desired methods of use(lol), and that inhaling weed smoke IS, these analogies break down very quickly.

[2600]

You probably do feel withdrawel symptons when you stop smoking Cannabis, but I imagine you only get withdrawal symptons if you go from smoking frequently to not smoking at all or nearly not at all.

Again, i'll refer back to fruit (lol). If you were to eat fruit every single day, like clockwork, and then suddenly you stopped eating fruit, you would experience withdrawal symptons.. This doesn't mean that fruit is addictive, it just means that you had grown accustomed to eating certain amounts of it or at certain times.

Same for weed.


LOL toker- I guess you are right: If you experience w.drawal when you quit eating fruit, it does not necessarily mean fruit is addictive. Being "addicted" to something refers to how you fit within a symptom profile (eating fruit alone, if fruit is interfering w/work, fruit hangovers, how much you think about fruit between uses etc lol).

BUT- experiencing withdrawal is definitely a component of addiction (dsm-IV, http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/dsm.html). Although you don't have to be addicted if you experience withdrawal (eg a dr can taper you off of certain meds that you otherwise might have if you would have gone cold turkey, but your dr wouldn't consider you addicted).

It is probably safe to say though that if you are experiencing w/drawal from said fruit lol, then there probably is a degree of dependence there.

It always starts with grapes... harmless? Yeah, but they are the "gateway fruit." Soon you'll be eating hundreds of grapes a day just to feel normal, then move on to harder fruits like apples and honey dew melon. If you are lucky, you won't end up under a bridge with your head in a watermelon.

And don't let anyone tell you the tomato is not a fruit- it IS. We just don't regard it this way in our society lol.

[SmoKa]

I didnt read any of your posts in this thread GreenGaucho because frankly i hate you and you should go stick your penis in a meat grinder. Have a nice day.

[GHoSToKeR]

lol 2600

Man, I hate all this tyranny and bullshit.. LEGALIZE THE FRUIT!!! :( :cool:

lol Anyway, your statement only confirms what I said, 2600: Fruit isn't adictive, but it would be possible to feel 'withdrawal' symptons if you had been eating vast amounts of fruit and then stopped. This is the same for tea (I know for a fact, my mum is addicted to the stuff), cigarettes, etc.. If you consume enough of anything on a regular basis, and you then go cold-turkey, you are going to feel some withdrawal symptons, even if these symptons are just a mild irritation and being pissed off (these are the only withdrawal symptons I get when I stop smoking weed).

Anyway, i've been up all night (argh!) so i'm losing track of my thoughts here a bit, but what i'm trying to say is that anything can be harmful and addictive if you consume enough of it.. with this in mind, yes, Cannabis can be harmful and addictive, but hardly more than anything else, and shouldnt be deemed a 'harmful' or 'addictive' drug... (unless when I go to the supermarket tomorrow I see "WARNING: COULD BE DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR HEALTH... SIDE AFFECTS COULD INCLUDE...." on the side of a banana) :)

[2600]

lol 2600

Man, I hate all this tyranny and bullshit.. LEGALIZE THE FRUIT!!! :( :cool:

lol Anyway, your statement only confirms what I said, 2600: Fruit isn't adictive, but it would be possible to feel 'withdrawal' symptons if you had been eating vast amounts of fruit and then stopped. This is the same for tea (I know for a fact, my mum is addicted to the stuff), cigarettes, etc.. If you consume enough of anything on a regular basis, and you then go cold-turkey, you are going to feel some withdrawal symptons, even if these symptons are just a mild irritation and being pissed off (these are the only withdrawal symptons I get when I stop smoking weed).

Anyway, i've been up all night (argh!) so i'm losing track of my thoughts here a bit, but what i'm trying to say is that anything can be harmful and addictive if you consume enough of it.. with this in mind, yes, Cannabis can be harmful and addictive, but hardly more than anything else, and shouldnt be deemed a 'harmful' or 'addictive' drug... (unless when I go to the supermarket tomorrow I see "WARNING: COULD BE DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR HEALTH... SIDE AFFECTS COULD INCLUDE...." on the side of a banana) :)

Please don't let my statement confirm anything for you, reread it and see that when I started off with "If you experience w.drawal when you quit eating fruit...", I was talking completely hypothetically. Because of course I disagree with the use of the statement "...anything can be harmful and addictive if you consume enough of it..." as a benchmark for looking at the effects of smoking weed.

Yeah, you CAN get water poisoning, you CAN break your neck slipping on a banana peel, but lets be realistic. There is a distinct difference between potential danger and withdrawal from a drug (even as mild as thc), compared to FRUIT! Keeping in mind tea, coffee, etc is of the former. I do have probs if I don't have my caffeine everyday, and I do have a tolerance to caffeine. Always find it takes the same amount of apples to get me off though lol, and haven't known tooo many people (outside of this board lol) to have a worse withdrawal from fruit than weed.

And on a related note, they say inhaling crack smoke is addictive , but so is inhaling oxygen. I mean I am inhaling oxygen right now, I have to keep breathing. I can't stop. I am moreso addicted to oxygen than I am crack I think. It can be harmful too. I could swallow enough air to make me sick. What if air got in my bloodstream? If I quit breathing, I would definitely have withdrawal from oxygen, symptoms as harsh as death! Comparatively crack is nothing.

[GTC21]

It always starts with grapes... harmless? Yeah, but they are the "gateway fruit." Soon you'll be eating hundreds of grapes a day just to feel normal, then move on to harder fruits like apples and honey dew melon. If you are lucky, you won't end up under a bridge with your head in a watermelon.
And don't let anyone tell you the tomato is not a fruit- it IS. We just don't regard it this way in our society lol.


Hahahaha! LMAO. Yeah, lots of people think tomato is a vegetable, probably because it's not sweet as the other fruits.

Is there a difference between dependance and addiction or are they the same thing? I think it depends on the person when it comes to cannabis dependance. About 3 or 4 years ago I had a good harvest, more than usual, I had more than enough for personal use so I was smoking silly amounts. I was smoking something like 1/8 a day, I know there are people who smoke more than that but I still think it's a lot. I was smoking this amount for about 2 or 3 months straight and then I ran out. As soon as I'd stopped smoking I was feeling really cranky, sulky, irritable and generally unhappy and pissed off. I had a nasty cough also. I think it depends on what the smoker uses it for, some people just smoke for fun at the weekend so it wouldn't affect them if they stopped, but others use it as a kind of escape from various problems (I was using it to calm my nerves) so if they stopped they would most likely feel withdrawal symtoms, I know I did after I stopped. That's why I don't smoke that much any more because I feel like shit when I run out. A joint each night before bed is fine for me now, plus a little more at weekends. That's all I can smoke at the minute as I'm running low and it's gonna be about another 8 weeks before I can chop the crop.

[2600]

Hahahaha! LMAO. Yeah, lots of people think tomato is a vegetable, probably because it's not sweet as the other fruits.

Is there a difference between dependance and addiction or are they the same thing? I think it depends on the person when it comes to cannabis dependance. About 3 or 4 years ago I had a good harvest, more than usual, I had more than enough for personal use so I was smoking silly amounts. I was smoking something like 1/8 a day, I know there are people who smoke more than that but I still think it's a lot. I was smoking this amount for about 2 or 3 months straight and then I ran out. As soon as I'd stopped smoking I was feeling really cranky, sulky, irritable and generally unhappy and pissed off. I had a nasty cough also. I think it depends on what the smoker uses it for, some people just smoke for fun at the weekend so it wouldn't affect them if they stopped, but others use it as a kind of escape from various problems (I was using it to calm my nerves) so if they stopped they would most likely feel withdrawal symtoms, I know I did after I stopped. That's why I don't smoke that much any more because I feel like shit when I run out. A joint each night before bed is fine for me now, plus a little more at weekends. That's all I can smoke at the minute as I'm running low and it's gonna be about another 8 weeks before I can chop the crop.

No dependence is not the same as (but necessary for) addiction.- keep in mind these relative concepts- ie, at what pt do you consider a drug effecting perf at work, etc. they give these "behavior inventories" with lots of q';s like that to you, and how many of those behaviours, and severity determine an "addiction score". It also has to have some kind negative impact on functioning- and how that is defined is kind of arbitrary.

Your analysis of the self reports of your use are spot on. If you use to escape, you will stress more when you withdraw. But when ppl have problems with sleep, eating, GI problems, THAT is crossing over to physical w/drawal symptoms (which depend solely on amount of use- i mean, if you are smoking an 1/8 a day, you are smoking to eat, smoking to sleep, smoking to wake up, you have to smoke just to be able to smoke! It does take some recovery. THats alot of fucking weed man.

Thanks for recognizing the tomato. I was trying to use that as a (loose) analogy for the beer, nic, and caff are not drugs, b/c of how society regards them, in the same vein as grapes are the gateway fruit. "Don't let anyone tell you alcohol is not a drug. It is." -- "DOn't let anyone tell you the tomato is not a fruit- it most def is."

[GTC21]

"Thanks for recognizing the tomato. I was trying to use that as a (loose) analogy for the beer, nic, and caff are not drugs, b/c of how society regards them, in the same vein as grapes are the gateway fruit. "Don't let anyone tell you alcohol is not a drug. It is." -- "DOn't let anyone tell you the tomato is not a fruit- it most def is.""

Doh! I missed that. I thought you were just stating that the tomato is a fruit LOL!
Damn I'm slow!

[HIEROPHANT]

Smoke of any kind is probably harmful to the lungs,So what! Modern life with all its globe spanning pollution is daily filling your lungs with who knows what,cannabis can be consumed in other ways,but pollution will KILL you no matter how it enters your system, So whats your point GG ? Thoroughly check out my website in my signature for the FACTS on the real culprit,the REAL and DANGEROUS DRUG ALCOHOL( try not being lazy and look past the homepage),which truly is the scurge of humankind
Cannabis =GOOD ( and GOOD PEOPLE)
ALCOHOL=BAD (it is the drug of the evil and repressive ruling class)
WATER CAN KILL and I don't mean by drowning ...NO I mean by CONSUMING

......Too much drinking puts runners in hot water
By Jacqueline Maley
April 15, 2005

Marathon runners are in danger of drinking themselves to death.

Many runners wrongly believe dehydration is the greatest threat to their health, but according to US researchers, too much water can be as dangerous as too little in long-distance events.
Doctors from the Harvard School of Medicine took blood samples from 488 runners in the 2002 Boston marathon, before and after the race, and found 13 per cent had diluted the salt levels in their blood to dangerous levels. This condition, called hyponatremia, can lead to coma and even death.
One 28-year-old runner who collapsed during the 2002 race and later died was found to have severely low levels of salt in her blood. Three other Boston runners had salt levels so low they risked death.
Slower runners were at the greatest risk of the problem, because they stopped more often for drink breaks. Many gained weight during the the race because they drank so much.
The problem of over-drinking has long been recognised by sports doctors, but this study, published yesterday in The New England Journal of Medicine, is believed to be the first documentation of its seriousness.
Dr Carolyn Broderick, the director of the sports medicine program at the University of NSW, said next to heat exhaustion, hyponatremia was the biggest cause of runners collapsing. "Most people are mindful of it if they are used to looking after marathon events," she said. "But average people are probably not aware of it. We are always encouraging people to drink more."
Dr Dick Telford, an exercise physiologist at the Commonwealth Institute at Cambridge University, said hyponatremia was common among less experienced runners, especially during marathons in cool weather, when dehydration was not a threat.
Runners already secreted water into the bloodstream through aerobic exercise and through the breaking down of glucose in the blood, he said.
"If you are running along, you are getting unexpected sources of water anyway, then when you take in a lot of water on top of that, you can get very sick." :eek:

[HIEROPHANT]

Hear is the link to the KILLER WATER story at the Sydney Morning Herald online......
..... http://www.smh.com.au/news/Health/Too-much-drinking-puts-runners-in-hot-water/2005/04/14/1113251739942.html
:eek: :rolleyes: :D LOL

[ermitonto]

Ban dihydrogen monoxide!
http://www.dhmo.org

[Nullific]

Shit people on TV are forced to eat bugs, cow eyes, brains and testicles and swim in tanks full of fish guts and sit in boxes full of spiders and crickets and scorpians and rodents for the right price and they are telling me smoking marijuana is harmful.

[ermitonto]

Not only that, it's so harmful that not one citizen can be trusted with it, not even scientists who want to find out the effects of the substance, or people who just want to make ropes out of it (but here, have a pack of Marlboros and drink Budweiser until your liver turns to mush).

[FRANKFRANKFRANK]

"I understand that everything is ok in moderation, but marijuana is NEVER healthy even in the smallest amounts..."

You gotta look at it like this: do the pros outweigh the cons? I think the high, and all the pleasures and de-stressing that it does will make a person live longer than if they didn't smoke it. An optimist lives 17 years longer than a pessimist, or so I've heard, and I don't know about you, but I'm pretty fucking optimistic when I'm baked.

Even if it does hurt us to some degree, I'd prefer to live with quality, not quantity.

Also, I've gone weeks where I got high EVERY day for no particular reason, and then the next week I wouldn't smoke at all. Nothing compared to when I quit smoking cigs., that's for Goddamn sure.


Not only that, it's so harmful that not one citizen can be trusted with it, not even scientists who want to find out the effects of the substance, or people who just want to make ropes out of it (but here, have a pack of Marlboros and drink Budweiser until your liver turns to mush).
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[HIEROPHANT]

Ban dihydrogen monoxide!
http://www.dhmo.org

Its worse than I thought ,this di-hydrogen monoxide sounds like it could be even deadlier than the "Killer Water" in my posting ;) LOL ,hilarious website which is now in my bookmarks.

[SLiC112]

good discussion people ... keep up the good work...

[kyle]

"I understand that everything is ok in moderation, but marijuana is NEVER healthy even in the smallest amounts..."


That my friend, is what I like to call - a big-ass hypocritical contradiction.



For those who don't see it; "I understand that 'everything' is 'ok' in 'moderation', but marijuana is 'NEVER' healthy even in the smallest amounts..."

You are saying everything is ok in moderation and than saying marijuana is not, well marijuana is a part of everything. Just because it is'nt particularily healthy does not mean that it's not 'ok'. Soda-pop is not healthy (I for one dont drink it) but thousands of children and adults do and they don't need I.D. to buy it. It probably won't kill you eaither, so its "ok". My 2 cents.

[GreenGaucho]

Glad to see my topic drew in so many different opinions and ideas. ;)

[2600]

Heirophant says:
Smoke of any kind is probably harmful to the lungs,So what! Modern life with all its globe spanning pollution is daily filling your lungs with who knows what,cannabis can be consumed in other ways,but pollution will KILL you no matter how it enters your system, So whats your point

Looks like you guys agree then!


a: "The sky is red."
b: "No, the sky is blue."
a: "But it's not yellow! And that lady over there is FAT!"
b: ...
a: "(yes! i win!)"

[Stedric]

Green Gaucho, I will first state that I agree with you competely that marijuana harms the lungs. Inhaling smoke everyday will gum up the works and cause lung problems over time. But just as with tobacco, (unless you have been smoking for over 40 years) if you stop for a certain period of time, your lungs will begin to heal themselves.

Secondly, "addiction" is a word that is misused often these days. The simplest way to define "addiction" is a behaviour or habit that is difficult for someone to stop. So, think of the things your exposed to in any given day, and ask yourself if any of the are addictive. First of all, lets start with chemicals; caffeine for example is prevalent in our society and VERY highly addictive, with withdrawal symptoms that FAR outshadow those of marijuana.

Third, notice how it is not only chemicals that human beings find themselves addicted to. Gambling, for example, is highly addictive behaviour. It results in horrible situations for people and is an incredibly hard habit to break. People slicing their wrists can also be classified as addictive behaviour. Any type of behaviour can be addictive for someone. As I often say to an ex-friend of mine, "being a jackass is a drug to, and your an addict". I don't just say this out of spite for him, he has behaviour patterns that he is completely dependant on.

My point is not to tell you that pot addiction doesn't exist, but that it is a very light and somewhat rare addiction that is overshadowed by much larger and prevalent addictions. Just putting things in perspective.

[SativaTrip]

personally i don't know WHY ANYONE is so worried abut smoking causeing cancer....fifty percent of all of us alive right now will die of cancer .....seriously.....and let's all worry about fucking smoke from my gra of bud a day give megaddamn break........why don't you all just go outside and go driving by a bunch of kids playing you fucking dingbats fuck....childrens astma rates are ALWAYS going UP these days...it's four times higher here where i live then the rest of the USA. And it's supposedly 'farm country".

PS- the prb is that you and your friends need to get hobbies.. If i smoked all the time i would be so bored!!!! So guess what? I DON"T. Wow what a concept. And you cannot withdrawl from weed...thc is non-toxic THC.....which is what you are "addicted"lmao to. Unless of course your addicted to the carbon monoxide. maybe you like to smoke and drive. lmao....word out fuckers

[GHoSToKeR]

Green Gaucho, I will first state that I agree with you competely that marijuana harms the lungs. Inhaling smoke everyday will gum up the works and cause lung problems over time. But just as with tobacco, (unless you have been smoking for over 40 years) if you stop for a certain period of time, your lungs will begin to heal themselves.

Secondly, "addiction" is a word that is misused often these days. The simplest way to define "addiction" is a behaviour or habit that is difficult for someone to stop. So, think of the things your exposed to in any given day, and ask yourself if any of the are addictive. First of all, lets start with chemicals; caffeine for example is prevalent in our society and VERY highly addictive, with withdrawal symptoms that FAR outshadow those of marijuana.

Third, notice how it is not only chemicals that human beings find themselves addicted to. Gambling, for example, is highly addictive behaviour. It results in horrible situations for people and is an incredibly hard habit to break. People slicing their wrists can also be classified as addictive behaviour. Any type of behaviour can be addictive for someone. As I often say to an ex-friend of mine, "being a jackass is a drug to, and your an addict". I don't just say this out of spite for him, he has behaviour patterns that he is completely dependant on.

My point is not to tell you that pot addiction doesn't exist, but that it is a very light and somewhat rare addiction that is overshadowed by much larger and prevalent addictions. Just putting things in perspective.
Well said! You said exactly what I was trying to say, I only used the somewhat dubious analargy of fruit. :)

[Damaniel71]

I believe that there are two different ways one can become addicted to a substance. One is a physical addiction. This is characterized by tolerance, withdrawls, dependencies, etc. This is commonly seen in crack, any opiats, nicotine, and even caffeine.
The other kind of addiction is a mental one. One can become mentally addicted to just about anything. Whether this is TV, music, work, or weed, its all relatively the same: pleasure. It is easy to become mentally addicted to pleasure. Particularly in the US, many of us are mentally addicted to something such as TV or fast food.
It should be remembered that there IS a small amount of physical addiction for weed. It has been documented and studied, folks. However, while it is slightly physically addictive, there are MANY other drugs that are much more addictive. Even caffeine, a substance that is completely accepted in society, is more physically addictive than weed. I mean, earlier today I had a headache. As soon as I had my daily caffeine intake, my headache was gone. I have never gotten anything as bad as that when I would go for a week without weed.
The key rule about weed that I believe everyone should follow is this: Never, ever let weed become the most important thing in your life. If you find yourself making weed your largest priority, you ought to really step back for a second and figure out what you are doing with your life. Things like family, friends, and yer career should always come before weed. If you can smoke like crazy but still make those other things your top priority, then by all means, light that thing...

[Frequency]

After reading these forums for around a month, and attempting to comprehend certain statements that have been made about smoking marijuana, Iâ??ve decided to write a few of my thoughts about this ever so interesting plant. Let me first say that in no way am I against people smoking it, and I hope you can try to listen what Iâ??m attempting to get across with an open mind. Hopefully it will make for good discussion, as I am trying to understand why certain people think they way they do about this plant.
First of all, Iâ??m completely in support of people who use it recreationally everyday, and find it a relaxing hobby or a way to socialize with friends. I myself, love smoking a bowl or blunt every now and then amongst my friends and sharing stories. I also believe it has certain medicinal qualities to it. It can help with glaucoma, arthritis, and may even be able to help against tumors and things of that sort. Certainly one can argue that it is for the most part, a harmless weed. The trouble starts when those who use it recreationally, try to argue that smoking it â??is completely harmlessâ?� and there is no scientific proof behind claims that it can be dangerous. It seems to me that many users try to legitimize their problems with smoking by spewing out irrational lies. One great example is this particular quote from a recent thread. â??Hell no I wont admit cannabis is a bad thing. They still have yet to prove it causes any life threatening damage to the lungs.â?� As I stated above, of course itâ??s not a bad thing. But claiming that smoking does nothing negative to the lungs is just ridiculous. One person who seems to agree with me recently stated, â??I don't see how anybody can logically say it's 100% harmless. You can smoke marijuana, tobacco, a rolled up piece of old carpet, a leaf off a tree. Regardless, anything smoked is gonna clog up your lungs, restrict oxygen flow, and gunk up the works.â?� The whole reason why people cough when taking a large hit is because the body is attempting to rid itself of something thatâ??s not supposed to be there. Just ask the girl from a recent topic who claims that she has recently been experiencing â??Smokerâ??s Coughâ?� and that sheâ??s spitting up gross mucus. Anyway, it seems for a person to argue against something so concrete would be like banging your head on a brick wall. On to my next point, which is certainly up to more debate.
The long-term effects of THC on the human brain are highly disputed. THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, has effects which include relaxation, euphoria, altered space-time perception, enhancement of visual, auditory, and olfactory senses, disorientation, and appetite stimulation. To me, these are the things that make people love smoking in the first place and this seems evident when I see my friends and I laughing at rediculous things. =) However, smokers often tend to dismiss the claim that these effects are sometimes very dangerous and can have very serious consequences. Things like reduced reaction time are what make smoking and driving dangerous. I also believe that THC truly is addictive in a sense. Many who smoke everyday claim to not be addicted at all, but my experiences say otherwise. Though it may not be as physically addicting as other drugs and alcohol, mentally itâ??s very addicting. The fact that many tokers spend a large part of their paycheck every week would suggest this. Many of my friends would rather spend their money on weed than save up for an investment that would help them in the future. I have nothing against it, but I guarantee if these people were to suddenly stop having a constant intake of THC, they would experience withdrawal symptoms and would probably be very irritable for awhile. I have seen this countless times, with many people. The rejection of the idea that cannabis does have addictive qualities to it, seems closely correlated to typical immature teenage boy attitude. (i.e.. nothing can keep them down, they can stop whenever they want to, feelings of invicibility, etc.) Surely there are those who can quit for the most part, but for the majority of people, itâ??s simply not the case.
Another way in which I think marijuana can be harmful that most smokers donâ??t seem to recognize, is the lazyness that often ensues. Sure you can make the concious decision to go out and run, or get work done, but that is not the natural effect of THC. The natural reaction to smoking cannabis is to be more relaxed and a feeling of euphoria. People use it to feel detached from reality. Just look at the indica plant and the natural â??couch-lockâ?� effect it has or the mental distortion caused by Sativa plants.. In my opinion, people can do whatever they want with their lives, but denying that itâ??s more than often counter-productive seems illogical. There are those who claim is helps them with certain tasks such as writing and I respect that.
In conclusion, smoking can be a fun, relaxing thing to do after a dayâ??s hard work or when you want to just chill with some buddies. It should be kept in moderation though, and there are those who deny the negative effects, and act as though they canâ??t be hurt by it. As shown in the topic titled â??ignoranceâ?�, smokers sometimes exibit a feeling of â??higher-intelligenceâ?� when non-smokers tell them that itâ??s not exactly healthy. And to the younger, teenage audience on these forums, parents are a valuable source of information and more than often know whatâ??s best for you. If they want you to not smoke so much, try your best to uphold their wishes. Sure it may seem oppressive now, but then again, your mind is devoloping and you eventually know why. When you get out there in the world by yourself, you will have your own household and can make your own decisions about your body. As a smoker myself, I ADMIT that it certainly isnâ??t a healthy thing to do, and try not to legitimize the reasons as to why I smoke. I like it because it messes me up, just like most other people do. Sadly, I am one of the few who will admit this.



Can you say "waste - of - time"?

I read the first sentence and was like, "here's a real wise guy." You are imparting artificial attempts to try and convict the forum of personal conquests on thoughts and the logical behavior of them when dancing with THC. You are wasting your time, and unpracticed imagination. Well then I take that back, write all you want....on notepad...

so you can practice more :D

[Stedric]

He's just stating an opinion, at least he was polite about it.

[Frequency]

Stedrick is Mr. Cool :cool:

[GreenGaucho]

Way to use advanced words while trying to scrutinize me Frequency. I was offering my opinion and asking others theirs'. Honestly, since it was a "waste of time" I doubt you took the opportunity to even read what I had to say. Good job making wrong assumptions. Here's my advice, stop be a fucking troll, nobody thinks you're cool. From now on if you don't like something you see, then get the fuck out, because your opinion is shit now.

[Frequency]

haha... watch it there slick..I'm not your mother..don't yell at me like a bruised nut...

I just startin posting like two hours ago since like months ago... I'm not an active member... So I am almost certainly positive that not everyone on this forum knows who I am...

Do something constructive with that energy... like clean off that t-shirt you been wearing for two weeks straight.

[GreenGaucho]

You should've stayed gone, this forum is better without you. BTW, neither of your posts have any relevence to the topic. Are you trying to be ignorant or does that come naturally?

[Lulu]

Ahem :rolleyes:
Time to roll one fellas :cool:

[Frequency]

You are showing your ignorance by labeling me as ignorant. You are a very confused fellow. :o

[burgess367]

How about this one: The tomato is a fruit botanically but the U.S. officailly claims its a vegetable. This was brought up in the late nineteenth century when some guy didn't want to pay tax on his tomatoes. In 1893, Jon Nix imported tomatoes from the West Indies and at that time there was a 10% duty on all vegatable imorts and fruit was duty-free. Nix claimed it was a fruit and sued. The case went all the up to the fledgling U.S. Supreme Court. The court decided that since the vegetable was thought and used as a vegetable than it should be treated as such. Beautiful logic really: The people are uniformed and are ok with it; why spoil it with the truth when we could make some money. The case: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=149&invol=304

(I meant to post this about about 25 minutes ago, but I forgot I wrote it.) Happy 4/20.

[Looker]

I didnt read any of your posts in this thread GreenGaucho because frankly i hate you and you should go stick your penis in a meat grinder. Have a nice day.


FUCK YOU :D

[Looker]

You are a very smart person....

I agree with you 100%

Oh and 4252..Im alot like that too I just cant remember how motivated I was BEFORE iI started smoking pot.........

[eduDrekoT]

It should be kept in moderation thoughThat is the key to most things, imho.


The only negative effects from Cannabis are from the act of SMOKING CannabisAlthough I agree smoking anything causes stress to your lungs, your body has an amazing ability to repair it's self, this includes your lungs. I belive it is the sedentary lifestyle that causes negative effects, not weed. I know people who can't walk or run even a few yards without gasping for breath, and yet they have never smoked anything. An object at rest tends to stay at rest.