Indoor Grow Box Set-up

[Malsor]

Here is a quick layout on my ideal grow box. Im going to build a custom cabinet type grow box. As you can see in the photo its 3'x3'x7' and I plan to use a 4" exhaust inline duct fan with a carbon scrubber, im not sure what size intake vent hole yet, 400w HPS lighting, 2 CFL side lights, and a circulating fan for strengthing stems and in case I need to cool down the temp a bit. Any ideas on what I should add or change? Any suggestions on how many plants I can fit easily?


http://i46.tinypic.com/25q99hw.jpg

[drudown11]

if its possible, get your ballast out of the growbox. The ballast almost generates more heat than the bulb, and in small growing spaces heat is an issue. I just have a feeling your gunna have a problem keeping plants short enough so that they wont get burned. You only have 3 ft ceiling and that 400watter needs to be about 2 feet away from tops.

Its probably still gunna get hot as fuck with that light on, run a test run with no plants in there and check the temperatures . Its better to deal with a heat issue when before it kills or stress's your plants.

[TheChameleon]

Hello, You may want to rethink your vent size 4" may be enough for cfl's but not enough for a ballast and hps...

[Malsor]

if its possible, get your ballast out of the growbox. The ballast almost generates more heat than the bulb, and in small growing spaces heat is an issue. I just have a feeling your gunna have a problem keeping plants short enough so that they wont get burned. You only have 3 ft ceiling and that 400watter needs to be about 2 feet away from tops.

Its probably still gunna get hot as fuck with that light on, run a test run with no plants in there and check the temperatures . Its better to deal with a heat issue when before it kills or stress's your plants.

my grow box is 7' tall so height is not a problem, what are some ideas with the light ballast placement with my grow box?



Hello, You may want to rethink your vent size 4" may be enough for cfl's but not enough for a ballast and hps...

yea I was thinking about the vent size. Im thinking something more like a 8" exhaust vent and as for the intake vent Im not sure yet.

[Malsor]

do you think a 600w hps will generate too much heat for my grow box (3'x3'x7' WxLxH) with a 6" vent air cooled reflector and 6" exhaust fan with the carbon scurbber? I was thinking of going with 400w hps but I would rather go with 600w if it wont give me problems. What do I need to change in order to make a 600w hps and 2 side cfl lights work with my grow box without the extra heat? I will exhaust everything out a window.

[khyberkitsune]

Wow that's going to be a TON of heat in the box. Yes, get the ballast outside of the box. Beef up your cooling, if you're going HID you should stick with the 400w, get a cooltube for that bad boy, put it in the center, hanging vertically. 8 plants, one per square foot, on the outsides. You won't even need the side CFL lighting with that configuration. 600w would not be necessary. Try using MH for this, if you can, since they're more often used in a vertical orientation. This method will get you far more yield than you would by using an overhead horizontally-oriented/reflector light setup of the same wattage.

You could also try LED, but that's only if you've got the setup cash. Two 120 or 150w panels would do the same thing, and with the way those work, this can give you an option of making two tiers in your cabinet, and doubling your plant amount, and giving you tons more options in your preferred method (you could run a mom/clone/veg cabinet down below and flower up top, for example.)

Different approaches will yield different results. Just tossing in some ideas. :)

[Malsor]

Wow that's going to be a TON of heat in the box. Yes, get the ballast outside of the box. Beef up your cooling, if you're going HID you should stick with the 400w, get a cooltube for that bad boy, put it in the center, hanging vertically. 8 plants, one per square foot, on the outsides. You won't even need the side CFL lighting with that configuration. 600w would not be necessary. Try using MH for this, if you can, since they're more often used in a vertical orientation. This method will get you far more yield than you would by using an overhead horizontally-oriented/reflector light setup of the same wattage.

You could also try LED, but that's only if you've got the setup cash. Two 120 or 150w panels would do the same thing, and with the way those work, this can give you an option of making two tiers in your cabinet, and doubling your plant amount, and giving you tons more options in your preferred method (you could run a mom/clone/veg cabinet down below and flower up top, for example.)

Different approaches will yield different results. Just tossing in some ideas. :)

great info, im still confused about the vent holes. What size exhaust vent and what size vent for passive intake? Im going to be using a inline duct fan, not sure what size yet.

[khyberkitsune]

great info, im still confused about the vent holes. What size exhaust vent and what size vent for passive intake? Im going to be using a inline duct fan, not sure what size yet.

If you do the cool tube method, 6 inch inline fan with 6 inch ducting, you'll need that much to accommodate the bulb. If you chose to go with a reflector instead of the cooltube, you'll need a 4 inch inline centrifugal fan minimum, with a three inch air hole. And yes you'll still need the circulation fan. If you go LED, you only need a couple of computer fans for intake and exhaust, use a couple 120mm for exhaust and a couple 80mm for the circulation/plant airflow/intake.

[Malsor]

If you do the cool tube method, 6 inch inline fan with 6 inch ducting, you'll need that much to accommodate the bulb. If you chose to go with a reflector instead of the cooltube, you'll need a 4 inch inline centrifugal fan minimum, with a three inch air hole. And yes you'll still need the circulation fan. If you go LED, you only need a couple of computer fans for intake and exhaust, use a couple 120mm for exhaust and a couple 80mm for the circulation/plant airflow/intake.

alright, I'm going to start my research on LED lighting but what are the benefits of using LED over HID?

[Malsor]

I've done a bit research on LED lighting and I'm not interested in using that method. I'm going to stick with HID. Im thinking of getting a air cooled hood. I was reading that the cool tube decreases some light and the reflector gets too hot so why not have both in one?

[khyberkitsune]

alright, I'm going to start my research on LED lighting but what are the benefits of using LED over HID?

The benefits depend upon how you set things up, but ultimately, ~240-300w LED would equal or beat 400w HPS on yield, overall plant growing potential, with much lower heat output, and more space due to smaller sizes of panels versus lamp and reflector setup. You use less power on airflow and cooling. There are drawbacks like penetration power, but on the other hand, if you went dual-layer in the box, you wouldn't have that problem, anyways, as you'd have two 3x3x3.5 sections. Of course you could just use a couple of panels and see how far you can go, but with my panels I could guarantee you're not going much taller than 2 or three feet maximum.

You also won't be replacing your HID bulb yearly for maximum efficiency. Every 7-10 years typically for LED.

But as stated, LED are semi-pricey, and you would want ~240-300w of LED for each 3x3x3 area.

[khyberkitsune]

You don't want them combined, cooltubes best uses are for vertical grow setups. And the amount of light a cooltube will waste will be negligible in such a small area. If you have it mounted vertically in the center, it only has to go out 18 inches in any direction before it hits a wall, so everything will be well-lit. With the cooltube in the center, you can still grow LARGE plants and you don't need more powerful bulbs to do it. This is IMHO the best way to utilize a single HID, and I'm actually working on LED based on the same idea.

[Malsor]

You don't want them combined, cooltubes best uses are for vertical grow setups. And the amount of light a cooltube will waste will be negligible in such a small area. If you have it mounted vertically in the center, it only has to go out 18 inches in any direction before it hits a wall, so everything will be well-lit. With the cooltube in the center, you can still grow LARGE plants and you don't need more powerful bulbs to do it. This is IMHO the best way to utilize a single HID, and I'm actually working on LED based on the same idea.

interesting point, with that said I guess the best option would be to go with the cool tube and place it vertical directly in the middle. I have a question about the carbon filter. How do I go about attaching the filter on one side of the cool tube?

[khyberkitsune]

interesting point, with that said I guess the best option would be to go with the cool tube and place it vertical directly in the middle. I have a question about the carbon filter. How do I go about attaching the filter on one side of the cool tube?

Put the carbon filter in an upper corner, hook up to the fan, hook up fan to cool tube. Run the heat out the bottom of the box with this sort of configuration (preferably in that center spot, make sure you've got your box raised about two or three inches off the ground,) as that will be the easiest way to keep the cool tube ducting as vertical as possible for the best orientation.

[Malsor]

Put the carbon filter in an upper corner, hook up to the fan, hook up fan to cool tube. Run the heat out the bottom of the box with this sort of configuration (preferably in that center spot, make sure you've got your box raised about two or three inches off the ground,) as that will be the easiest way to keep the cool tube ducting as vertical as possible for the best orientation.

I was thinking of setting up the carbon filter and duct it to the right side of the cool tube, on the left side duct it to the fan which I will place on the bottom of the box. Wouldnt the ducting block some of the light on the left side of the box since it will be running straight down to the bottom?

[khyberkitsune]

I was thinking of setting up the carbon filter and duct it to the right side of the cool tube, on the left side duct it to the fan which I will place on the bottom of the box. Wouldnt the ducting block some of the light on the left side of the box since it will be running straight down to the bottom?

Here's how I'd run the ducting. Picture attached

[Malsor]

Here's how I'd run the ducting. Picture attached

I got you, that makes more sense. I can put a flange on the bottom of the box and I'll just build 4 legs under the box and I will attach another flange under the box to continue the ducting out the window. Thanks a lot man, you've been great help!

[Malsor]

you dont think the light will be too close to the plants? Also, how do I go about vegging, can I use the same setup just with a MH buld?

[khyberkitsune]

I got you, that makes more sense. I can put a flange on the bottom of the box and I'll just build 4 legs under the box and I will attach another flange under the box to continue the ducting out the window. Thanks a lot man, you've been great help!

Perfect idea, there. 4 legs, a couple flanges, and you're set to go.

Expect some killer yield going that method.

[Malsor]

any suggestions on the size of the intake vent? would it be better to have 2 smaller vent holes or 1 large one? Im also going to use 2 6" clamp on circulating fans in the grow box.

[bigsby]

Here's how I'd run the ducting. Picture attached

Open the passive intake on the opposite side from the filter for increase air circulation. A minor quibble to be sure...

Intake should be 1.5x the exhaust duct size. So a 4" duct wants a 6" passive vent. Two intakes will work. You may need to partially close one. Get yourself a fan speed controller so you can dial in the right speed.

[bigsby]

If you vent out of the bottom of your tent you will want to give yourself at least a foot clearance and probably more like two feet. Any closes and you will decrease the efficiency of your fan due to resistance created when the exhaust hits the floor. Think about venting out of the side. You can always put a 6" riser in the bottom of your tent. Of course this creates another 90 degree angle which impacts fan performance as well. You should be fine with the fan you are proposing.

[khyberkitsune]

Open the passive intake on the opposite side from the filter for increase air circulation. A minor quibble to be sure...

Intake should be 1.5x the exhaust duct size. So a 4" duct wants a 6" passive vent. Two intakes will work. You may need to partially close one. Get yourself a fan speed controller so you can dial in the right speed.

All of this really applies for sound proofing. since there's no intake fan he wants a smaller hole for ensured negative pressure.


If you vent out of the bottom of your tent you will want to give yourself at least a foot clearance and probably more like two feet. Any closes and you will decrease the efficiency of your fan due to resistance created when the exhaust hits the floor. Think about venting out of the side. You can always put a 6" riser in the bottom of your tent. Of course this creates another 90 degree angle which impacts fan performance as well. You should be fine with the fan you are proposing.

Well, that's why he wants an elbow flange for the bottom section under the box, so it doesn't blow towards the floor, it blows out sideways from the bottom.

He really doesn't need more than four inches of clearance. Well six since he's going cooltube, unless he wants to fit some 6-4 inch adapters to the tube.

[Malsor]

khyberkitsune is correct. I'm going to use an elbow under my box and continue the ducting out my window. Should I use another elbow in my box to connect from fan to cooltube since its going to be a 90 degree angle or the ducting works fine? Also, since I'm using a 6" exhaust vent, what size should I cut out for my intake? I don't care for sound proof, I dont want bad pressure in my box.

[khyberkitsune]

khyberkitsune is correct. I'm going to use an elbow under my box and continue the ducting out my window. Should I use another elbow in my box to connect from fan to cooltube since its going to be a 90 degree angle or the ducting works fine? Also, since I'm using a 6" exhaust vent, what size should I cut out for my intake? I don't care for sound proof, I dont want bad pressure in my box.

Another elbow at the fan would be fine, or just plain ducting run along the ceiling. I've seen both done and both work.

For your hole. 6 inch exhaust, 4 inch intake hole. Guaranteed negative pressure and consistent.

[Malsor]

Another elbow at the fan would be fine, or just plain ducting run along the ceiling. I've seen both done and both work.

For your hole. 6 inch exhaust, 4 inch intake hole. Guaranteed negative pressure and consistent.

thanks! Now as for ground clearance, I can raise it 6" off the ground but then I'm going to have the make my box 1' shorter so it would be 6' tall instead of 7'

[bigsby]

khyberkitsune is correct. I'm going to use an elbow under my box and continue the ducting out my window. Should I use another elbow in my box to connect from fan to cooltube since its going to be a 90 degree angle or the ducting works fine? Also, since I'm using a 6" exhaust vent, what size should I cut out for my intake? I don't care for sound proof, I dont want bad pressure in my box.

Yeah I got the numbers wrong. Exhaust vent size x 3/4. You probably know this but you will want to attach a 90 elbow to each vent to ensure no light leak via the vent opening.

Since you are doing a vertical light / grow, height is important but you should be fine with 6 feet. You will need to consider your strain (indica vs. stavia) and keep a handle of veg vs. flowering stretch. You can always LST your plants to maintain lower height although it's going to get crowded in that tent fast once you start bending the plants.

[Malsor]

Yeah I got the numbers wrong. Exhaust vent size x 3/4. You probably know this but you will want to attach a 90 elbow to each vent to ensure no light leak via the vent opening, height is important but you should be fine with 6 feet. You will need to consider your strain (indica vs. stavia) and keep a handle of veg vs. flowering stretch. You can always LST your plants to maintain lower height although it's going to get crowded in that tent fast once you start bending the plants.

I can leave it 7' tall so thats not a problem. How far away should I keep the light away from the plants since its vertical and in a cool tube? As for veg, can I use the same setup just with the MH bulb?

[khyberkitsune]

mark off each square foot section, keep the plants in the center of those marked off areas.

I would recommend letting your plants grow about 2 feet, then flowering. Use the MH all the way through, trust me, you'll love the results, way more than what you'd get from an HPS. There's pretty much equal yielding with this method, but the MH makes for more potency. :)

[Malsor]

mark off each square foot section, keep the plants in the center of those marked off areas.

I would recommend letting your plants grow about 2 feet, then flowering. Use the MH all the way through, trust me, you'll love the results, way more than what you'd get from an HPS. There's pretty much equal yielding with this method, but the MH makes for more potency. :)

Yea? MH all the way? How does it make it more potent? Sounds interesting....I'll look into that, I heard plants grow triple in size once started flowering which means if I veg until they are 2' when their adults they will be 6' tall! If I make at least one ounce per plant I'm happy, especially if I can grow 8 at once.

[khyberkitsune]

Yea? MH all the way? How does it make it more potent? Sounds interesting....I'll look into that, I heard plants grow triple in size once started flowering which means if I veg until they are 2' when their adults they will be 6' tall! If I make at least one ounce per plant I'm happy, especially if I can grow 8 at once.

I let my plants get to a foot tall before flowering and pulled 3 oz per plant. Imagine two feet before you flower. :)

It works due to the MH putting out more blue and also a bit more UVB radiation (despite the filtering borosilicate glass shell.) This increases trichome production and thus THC content versus other cannabinoids.

I've included two pics - the first one is of my (poorly-done and heavily-burned) red-dominant LED grow. Notice there's some frosting, but not much.

Second pic is under blue-dominant lighting. Notice how much more frosty it has gotten (and it even suffered the same burning.) it's about three weeks behind the red-dominant one on flowering, as well. had I not let it burn, odds are the entire plant would look like I tried spraying it with that glass grit crap the poor guys in southern UK get to increase their yield.

[GanjaThump]

You may want to consider having the intake at the bottom of the cabinet and the exhaust at the top if at all possible with the theory being that you'll draw cooler air from the floor and pull hotter air out from the top for maximum temperature control.
Just a suggestion from personal experience with small spaces to work in.

Good luck!

[Malsor]

You may want to consider having the intake at the bottom of the cabinet and the exhaust at the top if at all possible with the theory being that you'll draw cooler air from the floor and pull hotter air out from the top for maximum temperature control.
Just a suggestion from personal experience with small spaces to work in.

Good luck!

the intake is going to be in the bottom and the exhuast is from the top im just ducting the air out from the bottom.

[Malsor]

I let my plants get to a foot tall before flowering and pulled 3 oz per plant. Imagine two feet before you flower. :)

It works due to the MH putting out more blue and also a bit more UVB radiation (despite the filtering borosilicate glass shell.) This increases trichome production and thus THC content versus other cannabinoids.

I've included two pics - the first one is of my (poorly-done and heavily-burned) red-dominant LED grow. Notice there's some frosting, but not much.

Second pic is under blue-dominant lighting. Notice how much more frosty it has gotten (and it even suffered the same burning.) it's about three weeks behind the red-dominant one on flowering, as well. had I not let it burn, odds are the entire plant would look like I tried spraying it with that glass grit crap the poor guys in southern UK get to increase their yield.

wow, yea. The second one deff looks more frosty. Lets say if my plants grew up to 6' would my vertical setup work with plants that tall? Also, during veg should I keep the light vert or hori?

[Malsor]

I found a article on a website on MH for flowering. It basically says the buds wont be as big as if you were to flower using HPS but the quality will be better. I copied a section......

Metal halide (MH) lamps can be used for flowering, but there are two problems that they have when compared with high-pressure sodium (HPS) lamps. The first is that they don't emit as much total light. HPS lamps emit more than 20% more light, so MH lamps are not as intense when covering the same area. Second, they do not emit as much orange and red light as HPS lamps. These spectrums seem to promote flowering.

However, MH lamps do have several advantages over HPS. First, they are less expensive to purchase. Second, the light does not have a really weird telltale
spectrum. It looks white, not pink or amber.

Third, the lamps emit more UVB light than HPS lamps, although still in very small amounts. The amount of UVB light plants receive is directly related to the quality of the buds. The more UVB, the higher the quality.

Buds grown under MH light will not be as big as buds grown using HPS lighting. However their quality will be as good or better.

[khyberkitsune]

wow, yea. The second one deff looks more frosty. Lets say if my plants grew up to 6' would my vertical setup work with plants that tall? Also, during veg should I keep the light vert or hori?

Yes, it will work, you will just need to be able to raise the cooltube to keep the plant exposure, lighting from the undersides is majorly inefficient.

As for buds under MH being smaller than buds under HPS, I've found that to be absolute nonsense in my own grows. Lumens means nothing, and the MH has superior spectrum and PPFD output versus HPS. It's more like actual natural sunlight. In the world of professional greenhouse horticulture, MH is the preferred primary after sunlight, HPS is the supplement to get even closer to sunlight color temp outputs. They're moving to LED, it's not quite as good as MH but definitely better than HPS in some aspects.

[Malsor]

Yes, it will work, you will just need to be able to raise the cooltube to keep the plant exposure, lighting from the undersides is majorly inefficient.

As for buds under MH being smaller than buds under HPS, I've found that to be absolute nonsense in my own grows. Lumens means nothing, and the MH has superior spectrum and PPFD output versus HPS. It's more like actual natural sunlight. In the world of professional greenhouse horticulture, MH is the preferred primary after sunlight, HPS is the supplement to get even closer to sunlight color temp outputs. They're moving to LED, it's not quite as good as MH but definitely better than HPS in some aspects.

Makes sense, I might go with MH the whole way just to try it out. Do you think super cropping would be a smart idea for a vertical grow?

[khyberkitsune]

Makes sense, I might go with MH the whole way just to try it out. Do you think super cropping would be a smart idea for a vertical grow?

No, I would recommend you just let your clones or seedlings grow straight up to two feet tall, then right before you flower, clip the tops (make clones for moms or another cabinet,) and then flower out. No supercropping needed, and the plants are going to bush hard.

[bigsby]

Listen to Khyber. He provides much higher level advice. I have never run a vertical grow. My experience to date is outdoor. I am in the process of prepping my indoor grow room. Read read read.

[Malsor]

the only questions I have left are....

How far do I keep the light from the plants during veg and flowering, I know in the middle but how high/low, and as they grow in size where should I focus the light?

Can I use 4 gallon square pots or are 5 gallon pots recommeded?

I might have a problem clamping the 6" circulating fans since the plants are going to be against the wall, any suggestions?

....I might have more but thats all from the top of my head. I continue to do my research, I want to take my time and get everything right the first time.

[khyberkitsune]

the only questions I have left are....

How far do I keep the light from the plants during veg and flowering, I know in the middle but how high/low, and as they grow in size where should I focus the light?

Can I use 4 gallon square pots or are 5 gallon pots recommeded?

I might have a problem clamping the 6" circulating fans since the plants are going to be against the wall, any suggestions?

....I might have more but thats all from the top of my head. I continue to do my research, I want to take my time and get everything right the first time.

When you install the light, raise it and lower it with it turned on so you get a good idea of where the brightest swath shines upon the center of the pot.

4 gallon square pots work, I use cat littler buckets often.

For the fans, try using perhaps a covering screen to prevent the leaves from getting into the fan. eventually the plant will train itself away from those.

[Malsor]

When you install the light, raise it and lower it with it turned on so you get a good idea of where the brightest swath shines upon the center of the pot.

4 gallon square pots work, I use cat littler buckets often.

For the fans, try using perhaps a covering screen to prevent the leaves from getting into the fan. eventually the plant will train itself away from those.

I want the most possible yeiled even if that means 3 plants in my box sitting in 10 gallon buckets

wouldn't the plants be affected if there is a fan blowing directly into them?

[khyberkitsune]

You'd want the fans blowing on them, it provides some micro-stress which makes the stems stronger.

You'l get way more yield with what I've told you than you would with 3 plants in 10 gallon buckets :)

[Malsor]

You'd want the fans blowing on them, it provides some micro-stress which makes the stems stronger.

You'l get way more yield with what I've told you than you would with 3 plants in 10 gallon buckets :)

I'm deff taking all the info you gave me and I am going to use all of it. I have a concern with the ballast. What should I know about what ballast I need for my cool tube and MH bulb? I was reading that the socket/cord of the cool tube does not fit most ballast that people use for their reflectors.

[khyberkitsune]

I'm deff taking all the info you gave me and I am going to use all of it. I have a concern with the ballast. What should I know about what ballast I need for my cool tube and MH bulb? I was reading that the socket/cord of the cool tube does not fit most ballast that people use for their reflectors.

Get yourself some electrical tape, you'll likely need to cut and splice the proper plug. The internal wiring for the cord should be the same, white, black, and green. Any ballast will work, it's just often you'll have to adapt your own plug since most suppliers want to use non-IEC standard connections.

[Malsor]

Get yourself some electrical tape, you'll likely need to cut and splice the proper plug. The internal wiring for the cord should be the same, white, black, and green. Any ballast will work, it's just often you'll have to adapt your own plug since most suppliers want to use non-IEC standard connections.

I seen a kit with the cool tube and ballast on Amazon. I provided the link below. Would I be able to use this kit for a MH bulb? I'm not good when it comes to the electrical systems.

Amazon.com: 400W 120V HPS Cool Tube Digital Grow Light System: Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/400W-120V-Digital-Light-System/dp/B001GL03LS)

[khyberkitsune]

That one won't work. You want the cooltube to be clear 360 degrees.

[Malsor]

That one won't work. You want the cooltube to be clear 360 degrees.

The reflector can be removed. I read people on other forums who claim its a piece of cake to remove and it gives you clear all around glass. So that wont be an issue. I'm wondering if the ballast will work with a MH bulb?

[khyberkitsune]

Looks like most companies I'm looking at don't make one totally clear all the way around.

*Advanced DIY* Non-Bakearound 7" Cooltube - Grasscity.com Forums (http://forum.grasscity.com/do-yourself/493984-advanced-diy-non-bakearound-7-cooltube.html)

There's a technique DIY on makign your own.

[Malsor]

Looks like most companies I'm looking at don't make one totally clear all the way around.

*Advanced DIY* Non-Bakearound 7" Cooltube - Grasscity.com Forums (http://forum.grasscity.com/do-yourself/493984-advanced-diy-non-bakearound-7-cooltube.html)

There's a technique DIY on makign your own.

the reflector's in the cool tube's are removeable which in result will leave you with a clear glass all the way around.

[khyberkitsune]

the reflector's in the cool tube's are removeable which in result will leave you with a clear glass all the way around.

It looked like half of those only used half a glass tube.

[Malsor]

It looked like half of those only used half a glass tube.

its all glass, the reflector is inside the tube. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about. You can see its glass all around with the recflector inside the tube.

Cool Tube Reflector at Planet Natural (http://www.planetnatural.com/site/image.html?sku=cool-tube)

[Malsor]

I found the forum I read. Mutiple people discuss removing the reflector from the cool tube.....The link below

Where Can I purchase a vertical cooltube? (http://www.verticalgreen.org/showthread.php?961-Where-Can-I-purchase-a-vertical-cooltube)

[khyberkitsune]

Ahh, I see now.

[Malsor]

Ahh, I see now.

So now back to the original question, the link I posted of the cool tube kit, will that ballast work with a MH bulb?

[Malsor]

Also, I'm going to be using Fox Farm's Ocean Forest Soil and Fox Farm's Nutes; Grow Big, Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom. Is there anything I should change or add?

[khyberkitsune]

So now back to the original question, the link I posted of the cool tube kit, will that ballast work with a MH bulb?

Most MH bulbs will not fit a cooltube designed for HPS. Check your diameter of your tube vs diameter of your bulb.

Everything else is fine.

[Malsor]

Most MH bulbs will not fit a cooltube designed for HPS. Check your diameter of your tube vs diameter of your bulb.

Everything else is fine.

I was thinking about using this bulb. What do you think? It will deff fit in the cool tube but as for performance I'm asking....

Buy 400W SolarMax 7200K Metal Halide Lamps Here! (http://www.specialty-lights.com/solarmax-400-veg.html)

[Malsor]

Another thing, I'm going to start the whole grow from start to finish in 4.75 gallon pots. I don't want to bother with the transplant causing stress for the plants. My question now is, I'm going to use 75% Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil & 25% Fox Farm Perlite....with the seedlings being in 4.75 gallon pots how long can I let the plants feed on the nutes in the soil itself for before having to start feeding them myself?

[Malsor]

About the walls being reflective, I'm interested in the Kool Seal Elastomeric Roof Paint. I heard it's 90%+ reflective and its dries in some sort of water proof sheet of rubber type material. Any suggestions on that? I'm still trying to figure out if it will stick on wood.

[khyberkitsune]

The bulb you were interested in would work just fine. 7200K should produce some great results.

I would probably go with 60/40 OF/Perlite, I've seen OF compact pretty badly. And with that, you could likely do almost the entire veg phase and only need to add nutes come flowering time.

Never heard of the paint you're talking about, though I would wager since it would work on a roof, it would work on other rough surfaces, you just need to worry about even application.

[bigsby]

I would not bother with that paint. You are going to be dealing with a very messy product there and a hell of a lot of effort getting in on to the walls. Plus it will take days if not weeks for the smell do dissipate. It is a lot of effort when plain white paint will be nearly as good. Better yet, go to home depot and get some Reflectix. It is highly reflective and you can hang it in 1/2 hour and your are done.

The benefits of repotting far outweigh any stress to the plants. You put them in a big pot and the roots are going to stretch and stretch as they never meet any resistance. You want dense root development to support a dense canopy. You will have significantly better results starting in a small pot, moving up to 1 gallon and then into the 5 gallon pot.

[Malsor]

I would not bother with that paint. You are going to be dealing with a very messy product there and a hell of a lot of effort getting in on to the walls. Plus it will take days if not weeks for the smell do dissipate. It is a lot of effort when plain white paint will be nearly as good. Better yet, go to home depot and get some Reflectix. It is highly reflective and you can hang it in 1/2 hour and your are done.

The benefits of repotting far outweigh any stress to the plants. You put them in a big pot and the roots are going to stretch and stretch as they never meet any resistance. You want dense root development to support a dense canopy. You will have significantly better results starting in a small pot, moving up to 1 gallon and then into the 5 gallon pot.

you made a good point about the paint. I will paint the walls gloss white and use reflectix over that. How easy is it to make whole's through the reflectix with a hole saw? I don't want to tear it. As for the pots, I been doing a bit research on potting seedlings in cups and in 5 gallon pots and the results are the same.

[Malsor]

The bulb you were interested in would work just fine. 7200K should produce some great results.

I would probably go with 60/40 OF/Perlite, I've seen OF compact pretty badly. And with that, you could likely do almost the entire veg phase and only need to add nutes come flowering time.

Never heard of the paint you're talking about, though I would wager since it would work on a roof, it would work on other rough surfaces, you just need to worry about even application.

60/40? When I was doing my research on mixing the soil with perlite everyone using FFOF used 30% max. The people who used 20% said they had no problems. I'm going to put at least 1" of perlite on the very bottom then the soil/perlite mix on top.

[khyberkitsune]

60/40? When I was doing my research on mixing the soil with perlite everyone using FFOF used 30% max. The people who used 20% said they had no problems. I'm going to put at least 1" of perlite on the very bottom then the soil/perlite mix on top.

There is still a bit of soil compaction that happens when you water, the added perlite is to keep the overall density regular to avoid that.

[Malsor]

There is still a bit of soil compaction that happens when you water, the added perlite is to keep the overall density regular to avoid that.

I'll keep that in mind. What's your input on veg state, should I veg vertical as well since I'm going to veg in 5 gallon pots?

[khyberkitsune]

I'll keep that in mind. What's your input on veg state, should I veg vertical as well since I'm going to veg in 5 gallon pots?

Full thing veg and flower. Set and forget :)

[Malsor]

Full thing veg and flower. Set and forget :)

got ya! Now I'm trying to figure out what plant I want to grow :stoned:

[bigsby]

you made a good point about the paint. I will paint the walls gloss white and use reflectix over that. How easy is it to make whole's through the reflectix with a hole saw? I don't want to tear it. As for the pots, I been doing a bit research on potting seedlings in cups and in 5 gallon pots and the results are the same.

You can punch holes in it with a nail. Use tacks or a staple gun. It's fairly durable.

You're wrong about going straight into 5 gallon pots. You can do it and you will likely get results but you will get better results by repotting over time. Here is why. You do not want your plant to focus more energy underground than necessary otherwise you sacrifice canopy growth for root growth. With a large pot you end up with stagnant zones of soil that retain water and provide a breading ground for pests, harmful molds, and conditions ripe for root rot. You want the root ball surrounded by fresh, nutrient rich soil. It is important to note that the ability of peat-based mediums to buffer pH degrades over time. As the buffer degrades you may face pH swings and nutrient lockout.

See this sticky on the importance of repotting. (http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/148236-why-should-i-re-pot-my-plant-why-not-put-seed-large-pot.html) I'm going to add it to my signature as I see this question raised quite a bit.

[Malsor]

I will deff keep that in mind, bigsby. I'll continue doing my research. Since I started this thread I've been nonstop online researching on everything about growing. Even though its going to be my first grow, I want to go into it know exactly what is needed to be done and grow my plants to their full potential. I don't want to rush into it just because I'm excited to get started. It's like knowing how to take off a plane but no clue as to landing it. I'm doing a whole lot of reading and learning from other people's mistakes.

[Malsor]

I'm going to put a mini humidifier in my grow box. I will make a small shelf towards the top of my box where I will place it. Also, any input on a thermostat controller for my exhaust fan and humidifier? I was thinking about this one in the link below......

CT-DH-4P Synchronized Cooling Thermostat/ Dehumidistat w Independent CO2 Outlet w Photosensor (http://www.hydroponics.net/i/131223)

[bigsby]

You want to build in fire controls with an auto kill switch if you add a thermostat controller to your fan. You can imagine the disaster of heat from a fire triggering the fan. The fire would go out of control in a matter of minutes. There are different options for dealing with this issue. Be sure to do your homework on this one.

If you ask me it is a bit overkill at this point. Get setup, do a grow and build out from there after you determine your needs. Not a bad price on that little unit though.

[Malsor]

Hey, khyber...when you told me to net my plants, how would you recommend I do that? Using what material and applying it where exactly?

[khyberkitsune]

I don't recall talking about nets. Net pots, yes, nets, no. The net pot is a pot made for allowing roots to escape the confines of the pot and get to a nutrient reservoir.

[Malsor]

I don't recall talking about nets. Net pots, yes, nets, no. The net pot is a pot made for allowing roots to escape the confines of the pot and get to a nutrient reservoir.

Oh alright, got you. I would grow hydro but I heard they don't produce as much yeild as they would in soil.

[bigsby]

Oh alright, got you. I would grow hydro but I heard they don't produce as much yeild as they would in soil.

Actually, no. The opposite. Hydroponic done right will outperform soil every time.

I just can't stand all the nutes and setup is insane. I'm a dirt kind of guy. It just feels right to me. Less to screw up IMHO.

[bigsby]

I will deff keep that in mind, bigsby. I'll continue doing my research. Since I started this thread I've been nonstop online researching on everything about growing. Even though its going to be my first grow, I want to go into it know exactly what is needed to be done and grow my plants to their full potential. I don't want to rush into it just because I'm excited to get started. It's like knowing how to take off a plane but no clue as to landing it. I'm doing a whole lot of reading and learning from other people's mistakes.

This is the right approach my friend. Pretty soon you will not ask as many questions and you will start answering them.

[Malsor]

I was wondering if my grow box setup would work with a 4'x4' instead of the orginal 3'x3'? I was thinking about it and, I wont have much room at all for my cool tube to hang down towards the canopy and if there isthe plants wont have enough distance from the light and risk burning the plants. I would much rather use a 4'x4' room with a 600w MH light system. If I need to modify my venting hole's to a bigger size, I will. I also would'nt mind adding more than 8 plants in my box as well :smokin:

[khyberkitsune]

You could do the 4x4 with a 400w easily. In a vertical setup that would only mean having to push through 2 feet in any direction, well more than enough penetration distance for a 400w.

[Malsor]

You could do the 4x4 with a 400w easily. In a vertical setup that would only mean having to push through 2 feet in any direction, well more than enough penetration distance for a 400w.

I was thinking of putting 12 plants in a 4x4, growing 400w MH then switching to HPS the last 2 weeks of flower. I was also looking at feminized Big Bang seeds. I read people growing 4+ oz per plant!

[khyberkitsune]

You should be able to squeeze 12 in there if you left the center 2x2 area semi-clear for the light.

I wouldn't switch bulbs, especially since those that do switch in the last two weeks of flowering switch from HPS to MH, not the other way around.

Going vertical, you should expect well more than 4 oz per plant.

[Malsor]

You should be able to squeeze 12 in there if you left the center 2x2 area semi-clear for the light.

I wouldn't switch bulbs, especially since those that do switch in the last two weeks of flowering switch from HPS to MH, not the other way around.

Going vertical, you should expect well more than 4 oz per plant.

I'm going to transplant my plants, I'm going to start my seedling in 1 quart pots then transplant them to 1 gallon pots, and then to the final 4.75 gallon square pots. The final pots are 12"x12" so I will have exactly 2'x2' of space in the middle for the light. I'm just worried the plants will get too bushy which will result in less space in the middle for the light. As for the bulb I was just thinking of the idea. I doubt I will switch em. I will go with MH all the way. Since I will transplant, do I need to add nutes to the water while the plants are in the 1 quart and 1 gallon pots during veg since the FFOF soil has nutes already?

[khyberkitsune]

Likely you won't need to add nutrients until you begin flowering with that scheduling.