Ebb and Flow transplanting

[Prodaytrader]

I am in the process of converting my original grow tub from a DWC to a ebb and flow. I'm concerned about the logistical plan I had when it comes to the media and transplanting. I have a small cloner that you can see below. Whatever I end up doing for this box to make it work, I will do for another box which is 5x bigger then this one for the flower box. I figured I could practice the design on the little one and simply do bigger for the flower box. I am converting this box to an ebb and flow. To make that happen I will simply purchase another box exactly like this one and glue it on top of this. I have the ebb and flow fittings and so forth to make this happen.

Currently I don't use hydroton. These cups are 2" with star collars. I was planning to fill these cubs with hydroton when I finally do convert to ebb and flow. From there I don't know what to do. I know it would have been easier to just use 3" cups and I may still do that, but what do you guys do for transplanting? Should I just use 2" cups in my large box? I'm afraid the collars will pop loose when they get bigger. I'm planning for 2.5-3' max height wise on a 4 week veg. My basic issue is the logistics of getting the plants from one box which is smaller to the larger box in addition to where to put the hydroton in my new design.

[SpaceNeedle]

I really don't understand your problem of transplanting when you flower. With the small net pots.... I would put them on the top tray, and after spacing them, fill that tray with hydroton all the way level with the top of the pots. In other words, you should not be able to see the bottom of the tray, nor the pots. This will give your plants' room for root development. You will also have to tie them (from the top) to keep them from falling. Your other option is to use larger pots, such as 8 or 10 inches high for each plant to give them room for roots.

SN

[jtsik330]

I am alittle confused as to what you wanna do but I am in the process of doing the same thing. I just wanted to let you know to make sure that whatever lid you are using can support the ladies during flower. I didn't espect for my bucket lid to tear in half after my girls got fat.

[Prodaytrader]

I have been reading through tons of pages from Lucas directly. There is a lot to take in. He confuses the heck out of me at time and lately I am concerned about the pots and the use of hydroton. Lucas apparently is a big fan of hydroton but it would seem that he uses much larger pots then 3". I'm thinking he is using pots in the range of 6" which means he is wanting more hydroton in the pot then what I am apparently using. There must be a reason for this. my ebb and flow design is apparently not going to work very well after all. Whatever...I'm seriously growing tired of this freaking game of system design.

If I build a tray, apparently I am supposed to water only 4" of the tray, but I also believe there needs to be another inch of hydroton possibly maybe even 2 inchs. Additionally, I think the pots are supposed to be much wider then 3" as the roots are supposed to stay within the pot, is that correct? My roots sort of just free flow out of the pots now and dangle in free air since my tub is about 9" tall and not 4" as tray growers recommend. Is it better to use square pots if I build a tray?

What I want to be able to do is veg in one space and flower in another so the pots need to be movable. How is it best to design the tray? Lid, no lid, what size pots, how deep verses how much water to flood and so on. I've been doing this a long time so I wouldn't ask if I weren't just fed up at this point. Instead of continuing to try and locate a perfect tub, I think I just want to build it right using ebb and flow and forget all this other crap I try.

[SpaceNeedle]

There isn't one correct size plant, nor is there one correct size net pot. What you should be thinking of more is, where are the roots going to be located as the plant triple in size in the flower room. If you have a 10" net pot, with lots of hydroton, you can be pretty well insured that most of the roots are going to stay inside the pot, plus the size of pot and its content will provide a good anchor for the plant as it grows bigger. If you use only a 3 inch net pot, I can assure you that the majority of your roots will be on the tray spreading out. That means you will want to cover them and protect the roots from the light. You will either need to provide a cover, such as a lid, or some plastic sheeting over the entire tray, or (I think the better way), evenly place the plants on the tray and then cover the area between the pots with hydroton perhaps 3 or 4 inches so that when the roots start to spread they will be protected from the light. You will probably also want to tie the plant (once it gets a bit bigger) up so that it cannot fall over...since the pot itself may not be enough to keep it upright.

For what its worth, I use 4" pots on the veg table in ebb and flow.... and when they go into the flowering room they get transplanted into 10" pots. Usually it only takes a day and they recover from the transplant quite easily. Occasionally, when I get a plant from the Veg room that is 'encrusted' with roots already, I will just bury that plant with the 4" pot into the larger pot so there isn't any root damage trying to remove the little pot.

sn

[Prodaytrader]

My wife suggested that idea to me and I pretty much laughed at her.


I'm thinking maybe it would be best if I created 2 tables, one veg, one flower, about 6" deep. I will likely only water to about 4" but cover the entire 6" with hydroton anyway. Both tables will look like that, just one massive hydroton bed. As I was unsure about the roots, much clearer on the concept now, I will likely need to use much bigger pots or even bags. I'll be checking into these bags I keep seeing that look like they will allow water to pass yet can be molded to any shape? I dont know, but I see now that the idea behind the flood table is to keep the roots inside the pot, IF I want to be able to move them from one room to another.

Can we assume the following: I want an indoor veg with perhaps 3/4 mothers and the ability to also keep perhaps 5 clones all in the same veg room and table. Then when the flower room is ready, move the 5 clones out to the other table and simply slap jam them into the bed with them already being inside their pot. My only concern is whether or not I would need to transplant or whether I can start in a 4" pot and finish in a 4" pot, with ultimate height of say 24". I have been reading a lot from Lucas and he suggests that you grow many small plants instead of a few large ones. Now I know this complicates legal issues, but maybe I would be better off with like 10, 12 to 18" plants instead of 5 x 24 to 36" plants. So what size pots would I use to grow start to finish in and what size pots should I keep my mothers in if I want to be able to take 5 clippings or perhaps 10 clippings.

On the mothers: I'm not totally sure on this, but I think I would be better off and try and replace the mothers every few grows so that they don't get too big and out grow the space I have allotted for them.

[bigsby]

Dude you are giving me heart burn with all of this. Is it really worth it? Why not just do soil in pots and be done with it? I mean, I know the advantages of hydro but all the chemicals, reservoir hassles, etc. I don't mean any disrespect and I'm looking to start a flame war or debate the merits of this or that grow system but it seems to me you have put in a great deal of sweat equity here. I do hope it pays. I'm rooting for you (no pun intended hydro folks)!

[SpaceNeedle]

You may or may not have problems keeping all your vegging on one table simply because when you have a small clone that is only 6" high, and a mother that is say 24" tall. What height would you have the light away from the tops? You may end up burning the top of the tall ones, because the light is too close, and your little ones will want to stretch to reach the light. Depending on the light you use, I would consider having them on different trays so the tops are more even to get the best use of your light.
I would also not put the hydroton between the plants, because you cannot move them or even turn them because of the rocks in the tray. Then to put a new plant into that situation can also be difficult.
I don't know why you are so against replanting to the appropriate size needed for whatever size they are. It saves space if you start off plants in a 4" net pot, and then once they are bigger and ready for flowering just transplant them. In fact if it was me, I would transplant them into a pot about 6"x"6" pot that is about 10" high. This gives the plant plenty of room for roots, and does not cost too much more in space. I would place them on the tray and instead of flooding the tray, I would run a 1/2" tube from your pond pump in the reservoir, bring the tube up to the tray where your pots are, and and leave a foot or two on the top tray with a plug at the end of that tube. Then run a 1/4" TUBE from the large tube, straight into each pot. You can just bury it about an inch or two into the hydroton. Then you can run the pond pump 24/7 and let her rip. There is so much aeration occurring that you will have no problem.... the nutes will run out of the bottom of the pot and drain back into your reservoir. You can get all the fittings from any Home Depot/Lowes in the irrigation department. Works like a charm.

sn