POLL: Will HB-1284 Cause Prices to Raise or Fall?

[Dorje113]

Whaddaya think?

If there are X number of dispensaries competing in the front range market, all of them legally allowed to grow as much as they want, this kind of competition could really drive prices down.

Others think there will be fewer dispensaries, and they will conspire to keep the prices high. I seriously doubt it, as not ALL dispensaries will go along with price fixing, plus it is illegal, and this industry is going to be closely monitored. If I owned a dispensary, I know I could make a lot of money AND sell $10 grams, $25 1/8ths, and $150 ozs.

[copobo]

the federal smackdown is yet to come.

I doubt that many dispensaries are going to grow more than 100... at least not after the first few fall.

[Dorje113]

the federal smackdown is yet to come.

I doubt that many dispensaries are going to grow more than 100... at least not after the first few fall.

Ah yes, this could certainly happen and would keep prices up.

However, wasn't there a bill proposed that would protect CO residents from federal prosecution? If that passes it would be great news.

[davemw]

IMO - I don't think a lot of the dispensaries really want to deal with growing. Most of them are people more interested in the use of MMJ. The thought it'd be great to have a store that sell pot.

My biggest complaint about most of the dispensaries and frankly the whole MMJ industry is the lack of professionalism. Perception is about 90% of reality to most people looking in on what we're doing.

[Dorje113]

IMO - I don't think a lot of the dispensaries really want to deal with growing. Most of them are people more interested in the use of MMJ. The thought it'd be great to have a store that sell pot.

My biggest complaint about most of the dispensaries and frankly the whole MMJ industry is the lack of professionalism. Perception is about 90% of reality to most people looking in on what we're doing.

I agree most disp's, including "good" ones, have mislabeled and absolutely false information regarding their genetics. Some can't even tell me if what they are selling is organic or not.

Personally, if a disp. is just in it to re-sell weed I don't care if they stay in business regardless if they are local, "mom and pop", have money, or whatever. They should find some other widgets to sell and leave mmj to those who care and know what they are talking about.

So anyway, I look forward to a lot of these dispensaries going out of business. There are too many bad ones.

[TheReleafCenter]

I personally feel like the price fixing argument is ludicrous. I've made this argument in other threads, but "big dispensaries" aren't like a Walmart entity that can uniformly fix prices across the board. They're more like gas stations, with some that are big corporate places and others mom and pop. Prices are fixed to the market and there isn't a ton of variation.

[HighPopalorum]

I vote for "no effect" but it's not an option.

[cowgirl1]

Ah yes, this could certainly happen and would keep prices up.

However, wasn't there a bill proposed that would protect CO residents from federal prosecution? If that passes it would be great news.

If you are talking about a bill that would be passed by the state to protect colorado people from federal prosecution it is impossible. The federal gov has the last say so about anything. The state can say you can do whatever when it comes to Marijuana. However, the feds can jump in and arrest you for growing a single plant if they decide to. We all talk about staying under the 100 plant rule. If the head of the dea call the dea and says screw the grows and discpencaries then they can arrest everyone from selling out of dispencaries and everyone growing either 1 plant or 2 million plants. One single tinny little plant carries a mandatory jail term in the federal system. As much as the news media is growing us in with all the bad stories and the attorney general wanting to marijuana in the center and get rid of it I am willing to bet sooner or later the attorney is going to pick up the phone and say hey guy "dea" this is getting out of control. How about some help. Then everyone is going to sit down and say OK lets pick a number and what every number they come up with be it 5 ,10 50 100 or whatever they are going to raid every grow the has that number or above. The the state is going to sit back and go "wow I cannot beleive the did that" and the DEA will either say no comment or sorry its against federal law.

[cowgirl1]

Sorry got knocked off. But either way I am willing to bet there is some door knocking coming in the near future.

[oldhaole]

Supply and Demand.


At first I think prices will go up as everything gets sorted out. Demand will outstrip Supply. I do not see how the dispensaries alone will supply what they sell by growing their own. Mass produced plants will not be near as good as what the small growers do. Quality will suffer. Prices will rise.


As prices rise more people will grow their own. Legal or not , they will sell their crops. More product will hit the market. But they go to just selling to people they know, from selling to anybody legal. LEO will be having a hard time because there are too many small grows under the radar. LEO likes big numbers. They will stay concentrated on the big boys.


All this small production will drive the prices down. It will also drive cannabis back underground. It will come down to buy junk at a dispensary, or going to one of your friends or your own plants for the good stuff. In the end I think this will be a boon to the small high quality growers.


You have no debate from me about the sheer stupidity of this new law. But in the end I also think this will backfire. You will have a lot of small growers and patients supply each other. The big boys will wind up being the shit magnets. And the little guys that stay in the rules will slide on by.

[Justabloke]

1284 is largely about greed! Greed by disp owners and greed by the gov't. Ha! Whoda thunk?

j

[Dorje113]

Supply and Demand.


At first I think prices will go up as everything gets sorted out. Demand will outstrip Supply. I do not see how the dispensaries alone will supply what they sell by growing their own. Mass produced plants will not be near as good as what the small growers do. Quality will suffer. Prices will rise.


As prices rise more people will grow their own. Legal or not , they will sell their crops. More product will hit the market. But they go to just selling to people they know, from selling to anybody legal. LEO will be having a hard time because there are too many small grows under the radar. LEO likes big numbers. They will stay concentrated on the big boys.


All this small production will drive the prices down. It will also drive cannabis back underground. It will come down to buy junk at a dispensary, or going to one of your friends or your own plants for the good stuff. In the end I think this will be a boon to the small high quality growers.


You have no debate from me about the sheer stupidity of this new law. But in the end I also think this will backfire. You will have a lot of small growers and patients supply each other. The big boys will wind up being the shit magnets. And the little guys that stay in the rules will slide on by.

That's kind of depressing.

I think there can be good dispensaries. It's possible to grow large quantities of really good pot, just like it's possible to brew good beer on a larger scale. I do believe there will be a lot of crap, and a lot of dispensaries won't be able to grow well enough to stay in business.

I think it'll be a lot like brewing beer. Back when I moved to CO, the microbrew movement just started and there was only bombers available at Liquormart in a smallish section of the store. As popularity grew, some brewers couldn't maintain the same quality at larger batch sizes, but some could. As time went on, quality of mass produced beer has gone way up with some truly artisan-quality brews being sold at the national level.

So, I think some growers will be able to maintain good quality while supplying their dispensary and selling excess to other disp's too, and more will figure it out as time goes on, and in the future it'll be hard for home growers to compete with the quality of commercial operations, just like homebrewers can't usually match master brewers products, even at large breweries, at least for the most part.

IF I were considering running a commercial grow, I'd have money for research and development few others could afford. I already have ideas for growroom lighting that would give me an advantage in quality over potential competitors. Each light might end up costing several times what a top of line commercially available light would cost, but if it makes my pot better, I'll spend the money... :rastasmoke:

[throatstick]

Ah yes, this could certainly happen and would keep prices up.

However, wasn't there a bill proposed that would protect CO residents from federal prosecution? If that passes it would be great news.

yes that would be good news

[throatstick]

IMO - I don't think a lot of the dispensaries really want to deal with growing. Most of them are people more interested in the use of MMJ. The thought it'd be great to have a store that sell pot.

My biggest complaint about most of the dispensaries and frankly the whole MMJ industry is the lack of professionalism. Perception is about 90% of reality to most people looking in on what we're doing.

alot of them don't even know how to grow,then they go looking for a grower and end up with someone that knows alil and not alot....i have seen this happen.

[throatstick]

I personally feel like the price fixing argument is ludicrous. I've made this argument in other threads, but "big dispensaries" aren't like a Walmart entity that can uniformly fix prices across the board. They're more like gas stations, with some that are big corporate places and others mom and pop. Prices are fixed to the market and there isn't a ton of variation.

yup i agree, the thing i see happening is in the private sector.the people that used to be able to care for 20,30+ patients will now have to drop all of those people.caregivers will only be able to deal with those 5 which means there will only be so much going out.i see the freebies part going away for most.

[TurboALLWD]

and in the future it'll be hard for home growers to compete with the quality of commercial operations, just like homebrewers can't usually match master brewers products, even at large breweries, at least for the most part.



I don't believe that for a second. Home growers will be charging wholsale prices, how can dispensaries compete with that? Do they ask $8/g for organic top shelf meds like I do? I'd like to just provide for my 5 patients, so they can keep giving these dispensaries that screwed them the finger! Problem is, say theres 5 thousand caregivers, so 25,000 patients don't have to get raped by the dispensaries, what about the other 75 percent? Are they going to just take it up the ass or will they network with other patients so they too get a fair price? I think oldhaole is right on. :stoned:

[TheReleafCenter]

yup i agree, the thing i see happening is in the private sector.the people that used to be able to care for 20,30+ patients will now have to drop all of those people.caregivers will only be able to deal with those 5 which means there will only be so much going out.i see the freebies part going away for most.

Depends on what the licensing looks like, because if OPCL's are cheap, dispensaries could shell out for 20/30 patient grows. The bigger issue is home grows, which threatens a lot more of those small guys.

If I were a private grower with a 20/30 patient load, I'd be negotiating with dispensaries to get my current patients a huge discount at their shop. Don't think I've heard anyone talking about this yet. The caregiver still gets adequate compensation, their patients all get a hookup on their meds and the dispensary gets a little top shelf MMJ for putting up for the OPCL/MMC fees.

[TheReleafCenter]

I don't believe that for a second. Home growers will be charging wholsale prices, how can dispensaries compete with that? Do they ask $8/g for organic top shelf meds like I do? I'd like to just provide for my 5 patients, so they can keep giving these dispensaries that screwed them the finger! Problem is, say theres 5 thousand caregivers, so 25,000 patients don't have to get raped by the dispensaries, what about the other 75 percent? Are they going to just take it up the ass or will they network with other patients so they too get a fair price? I think oldhaole is right on. :stoned:

The idea that everyone takes it up the ass from a dispensary isn't fair. I wouldn't want to go to someones house, or have someone come to my house, with a limited selection of buds whenever they get around to it.

Dispensaries offer people a physical location they can go to, on their time, and purchase a wide variety of strains/edibles/glass/hash. They offer valuable wellness services, such as opiate addiction counseling. They donate money to charities that benefit their patients. They hire people in the community, spend money in the community, and shouldn't get such a rough shake on here.

But I am biased. Sorry to be the Eeyore every time we talk about the role of dispensaries. :jointsmile:

[TurboALLWD]

The idea that everyone takes it up the ass from a dispensary isn't fair. I wouldn't want to go to someones house, or have someone come to my house, with a limited selection of buds whenever they get around to it.

Dispensaries offer people a physical location they can go to, on their time, and purchase a wide variety of strains/edibles/glass/hash. They offer valuable wellness services, such as opiate addiction counseling. They donate money to charities that benefit their patients. They hire people in the community, spend money in the community, and shouldn't get such a rough shake on here.

But I am biased. Sorry to be the Eeyore every time we talk about the role of dispensaries. :jointsmile:

Give me a break with you're caregiver BS. Caregivers don't deliver meds at their convenience, they deliver meds at the patients convenience. Some people can't afford to get ripped off, some can't afford the risk of losing their job for being seen going into a dispensary. I have a patient that came to me because of that, not to mention her meds are only $8/g if she needs more than her free ounce. :D But it looks like all the douchebag dispensary owners, lawyers, politicians and plenty of other low lifes have succeded in preventing the caregivers from being able to offer free meds, and even CHEAP meds as we are most likely going to have to charge a little more to cover our costs with only 5 patients.


Limited selection? I'd take limited selection over taking it up the ass at $50 an 8th anytime. I have 15 strains now, and with the new laws I'll have DOUBLE that as I'll get my plant count up to 80-90 or so. Usable limit will be high enough that caregivers won't have to unload it to a dispensary for $150-$200 an ounce so dispensaries can mark it up 300%. Good thing thats about to be a thing of the past. It's hard to deny that dispensaries aren't RIPPING PATIENTS OFF at $50-60 an 8th. That's STREET price which has been calculated with a lot more risk than a dispensary has to deal with right now.

You can't tell me dispensaries are not making an INSANE amount of profit at 6500-7500 a pound when their growing it themselves for roughly 800-1000 a pound. Yeah I think they should cap all you guys to $40 an 8th. Maybe $30, hell that would still be higher than what my patients pay. :rastasmoke:

[throatstick]

Give me a break with you're caregiver BS. Caregivers don't deliver meds at their convenience, they deliver meds at the patients convenience. Some people can't afford to get ripped off, some can't afford the risk of losing their job for being seen going into a dispensary. I have a patient that came to me because of that, not to mention her meds are only $8/g if she needs more than her free ounce. :D But it looks like all the douchebag dispensary owners, lawyers, politicians and plenty of other low lifes have succeded in preventing the caregivers from being able to offer free meds, and even CHEAP meds as we are most likely going to have to charge a little more to cover our costs with only 5 patients.


Limited selection? I'd take limited selection over taking it up the ass at $50 an 8th anytime. I have 15 strains now, and with the new laws I'll have DOUBLE that as I'll get my plant count up to 80-90 or so. Usable limit will be high enough that caregivers won't have to unload it to a dispensary for $150-$200 an ounce so dispensaries can mark it up 300%. Good thing thats about to be a thing of the past. It's hard to deny that dispensaries aren't RIPPING PATIENTS OFF at $50-60 an 8th. That's STREET price which has been calculated with a lot more risk than a dispensary has to deal with right now.

You can't tell me dispensaries are not making an INSANE amount of profit at 6500-7500 a pound when their growing it themselves for roughly 800-1000 a pound. Yeah I think they should cap all you guys to $40 an 8th. Maybe $30, hell that would still be higher than what my patients pay. :rastasmoke:

i agree with you somewhat but the shops are a necessary thing.some people like it i guess.and most don't grow themselfs most by from caregivers which get around 4k per lb or so.add that to the overhead then thats where the prices come in.even if they do grow inhouse most sub it out to a grower and he still needs a good bit for his time and knowledge.

i see shops as 1 of those things where if everyone i know is out atleast i can go to a shop if i have too. i don't like to go to them for many reasons tho.1 leo 2 robbers 3 high prices"even tho i know why they are" 4 still has a shady type of feel to it no matter how safe it is"only because of #1 and #2 tho....

i do believe leo watches these places and write down car info when they are bored or want to create there cheat lists.seems like they are about to be of use to them now....

[throatstick]

i laugh when i see people write things like leo was against this bill see so this bill will not hurt us.leo will act and lie and do anything to make you think what they want you too.they are cowards they don't want you to know they will be bashing your door in at 3 am.

lmao thats why they bust mmj people so much is because they know most will use mj to go relax and go to bed.they can't be so sure with real dope houses.they are tweaked out for days lmao..

[oldhaole]

Right now I am sure that there are many dispensaries that truly go out of their way to help people. As I read it this new law comes down directly on them.

As I see it this new law turns "caregiver" to "must make money". Just to cover your overhead and a small profit will be a hard road. Not to mention that if you have more than 100 plants you will always have the Feds hanging over your head. And thats not going to change anytime soon. So I think you should get more because of the extra risk you take.

I kinda agree with Dorjie in that his comparison to microbrews. Except I would change beer to wine. In this business model small wineries can thrive as well as the big boys. But the "Big Boys" suffer the stigma of mass production. And you pay more for quality.

As I said earlier I don't have a dog in this fight. But it looks like the state has thrown up a giant roadblock on the amount of product that can be grown. It only makes sense that the small growers that will be the only ones able to meet the demand.

[TurboALLWD]

Right now I am sure that there are many dispensaries that truly go out of their way to help people. As I read it this new law comes down directly on them.


This new law comes down directly on the CAREGIVERS AND PATIENTS. They have made ALL sales illegal besides DISPENSARY SALES. Oh yeah caregivers can sell to their 5 patients at cost. Seriously, this bill is fucking the people, and the dispensaries just a wee bit.

[TheReleafCenter]

Give me a break with you're caregiver BS. Caregivers don't deliver meds at their convenience, they deliver meds at the patients convenience. Some people can't afford to get ripped off, some can't afford the risk of losing their job for being seen going into a dispensary. I have a patient that came to me because of that, not to mention her meds are only $8/g if she needs more than her free ounce. :D But it looks like all the douchebag dispensary owners, lawyers, politicians and plenty of other low lifes have succeded in preventing the caregivers from being able to offer free meds, and even CHEAP meds as we are most likely going to have to charge a little more to cover our costs with only 5 patients.


Limited selection? I'd take limited selection over taking it up the ass at $50 an 8th anytime. I have 15 strains now, and with the new laws I'll have DOUBLE that as I'll get my plant count up to 80-90 or so. Usable limit will be high enough that caregivers won't have to unload it to a dispensary for $150-$200 an ounce so dispensaries can mark it up 300%. Good thing thats about to be a thing of the past. It's hard to deny that dispensaries aren't RIPPING PATIENTS OFF at $50-60 an 8th. That's STREET price which has been calculated with a lot more risk than a dispensary has to deal with right now.

You can't tell me dispensaries are not making an INSANE amount of profit at 6500-7500 a pound when their growing it themselves for roughly 800-1000 a pound. Yeah I think they should cap all you guys to $40 an 8th. Maybe $30, hell that would still be higher than what my patients pay. :rastasmoke:

I don't know what else I can say, and I can't really speculate on how much money other dispensaries are making. You seem really passionate about this, so I won't try to change your mind.

I can just say that I didn't get into this for the money, I'm making less than I was when I was a bartender, and I'm infinitely more happy. I never had a CLUE, though, how much it costs to actually run a dispensary.

[TurboALLWD]

I don't know what else I can say, and I can't really speculate on how much money other dispensaries are making. You seem really passionate about this, so I won't try to change your mind.

I can just say that I didn't get into this for the money, I'm making less than I was when I was a bartender, and I'm infinitely more happy. I never had a CLUE, though, how much it costs to actually run a dispensary.

Yeah I am passionate about this as you can tell, when I say about this, I'm talking about patients, including my brother, that need meds to live a good life. When a dispensary charges what I consider street prices, its hard for me to not look down on them when I know their pulling a get rich scheme.

You say you're making less than you were as a bartender? Shame on the dispensary owner you work for that pays you such low wage for running that shop.

[throatstick]

Yeah I am passionate about this as you can tell, when I say about this, I'm talking about patients, including my brother, that need meds to live a good life. When a dispensary charges what I consider street prices, its hard for me to not look down on them when I know their pulling a get rich scheme.

You say you're making less than you were as a bartender? Shame on the dispensary owner you work for that pays you such low wage for running that shop.

alot of owners call them selfs mgr's too.....

[TurboALLWD]

alot of owners call them selfs mgr's too.....

Right, but thats not the case here. He just said he was not the owner in another thread.

[throatstick]

Right, but thats not the case here. He just said he was not the owner in another thread.

i know just saying.....lol

[Stickybooger]

I don't know what else I can say, and I can't really speculate on how much money other dispensaries are making. You seem really passionate about this, so I won't try to change your mind.

I can just say that I didn't get into this for the money, I'm making less than I was when I was a bartender, and I'm infinitely more happy. I never had a CLUE, though, how much it costs to actually run a dispensary.

I have been in your dispensary It looks like there must be a lot of over head.

[TheReleafCenter]

Yeah I am passionate about this as you can tell, when I say about this, I'm talking about patients, including my brother, that need meds to live a good life. When a dispensary charges what I consider street prices, its hard for me to not look down on them when I know their pulling a get rich scheme.

You say you're making less than you were as a bartender? Shame on the dispensary owner you work for that pays you such low wage for running that shop.
And what you're doing is noble.

I remember the first time I lost a patient. And not because they signed up with another caregiver. It stays with you.

The first time I met her, she was with her daughter and son in law. I came in on my day off to check on something I don't remember. We have a lot of paperwork, and she was smart enough to be leery. Or spry. I went through every word of our paperwork and we cracked jokes as I went along.

She asked a lot of questions because she was scared. Her son in law had wheeled her up a flight of stairs, backwards, to arrive in one of the least pleasant dispensaries in the city. Immediately feeling uncomfortable, she asked him to take her back down.

It took courage to come and see us. We don't let people past our security door to peruse. It's for everyone's safety. She gave us her trust.

We talked about alternatives to smoking, because she was in the end stages of terminal cancer. We told her where she could buy vaporizers that were cheaper than ours, because that kind of treatment leaves you with nothing. Especially hope.

Her son in law (her caregiver) would come in now and then, after we worked out special paperwork, to pick up something for her. I felt that helplessness you feel when you realize you're only alleviating symptoms, not curing a disease. It's so hard to feel like what you're doing is all that great when you have to watch someone die. I wanted to believe we were doing miracle work when I felt like we were really false prophets.

But it's neither. She had a quality of life that many people aren't afforded. I can't beat myself up because there wasn't anything I could do. We start tomorrow just like we started today, one patient at a time.

And she wasn't my family. I can't fathom what you're going through.

Honestly, my owners make less than I do. We built The Releaf Center off of savings and sweat. I can show you pictures of our remodel... it was intense. It sounds like you've been in, so you know we aren't the flashiest place out there.

We spent our money on a free library of wellness books over a flat screen for our lobby. We're running a special called The Ounce That Counts where we donate an ounce to the winner and all proceeds to their (approved) charity.
We do lots of things. Come in and talk to me about it. I'm the tall guy, Jake.

[Justabloke]

I don't know what else I can say, and I can't really speculate on how much money other dispensaries are making. You seem really passionate about this, so I won't try to change your mind.

I can just say that I didn't get into this for the money, I'm making less than I was when I was a bartender, and I'm infinitely more happy. I never had a CLUE, though, how much it costs to actually run a dispensary.

There are some out there making money hand over fist like your compatition kiddy corner accross the street from you. Where I use to go. I can bad mouth them but I won't. I simply choose to show my support (or lack thereof) with my money (or lack thereof).

Yeah, bartending is cool if your not too busy to think but then you don't make much money and when you are too busy, it's high stress. I can see why this would be a LOT better job on many levels. I can only aspire to be able to help people like you, RLC, and others do in the community and when you hire me (always asume the sale!) I can say I am helping others!

j

[Justabloke]

This is sad...

As of the writing of this reply there have been 331 views of the post and of those 331 29 have replied and of them 26 have voted.

Seems to me, the poll should have 331 votes and 331 replies.

Just a observation and,
Bloke

[throatstick]

This is sad...

As of the writing of this reply there have been 331 views of the post and of those 331 29 have replied and of them 26 have voted.

Seems to me, the poll should have 331 votes and 331 replies.

Just a observation and,
Bloke

i did both ...

[throatstick]

The idea that everyone takes it up the ass from a dispensary isn't fair. I wouldn't want to go to someones house, or have someone come to my house, with a limited selection of buds whenever they get around to it.

Dispensaries offer people a physical location they can go to, on their time, and purchase a wide variety of strains/edibles/glass/hash. They offer valuable wellness services, such as opiate addiction counseling. They donate money to charities that benefit their patients. They hire people in the community, spend money in the community, and shouldn't get such a rough shake on here.

But I am biased. Sorry to be the Eeyore every time we talk about the role of dispensaries. :jointsmile:

so saying this then you are just fine with the whole throw the true caregivers under the bus bill? you keep saying you have'nt had time to even think about the whole caregiver growing in homes deal.i don't see how but with the post talking about loosing a patient i don't see how you could not think about the small caregivers that help people that much more than any center could.

when a caregiver will take the meds to the patient spend time with them and give meds at or below wholesale i don't see how any one could "not have time" to think about that...

[Justabloke]

so saying this then you are just fine with the whole throw the true caregivers under the bus bill? you keep saying you have'nt had time to even think about the whole caregiver growing in homes deal.i don't see how but with the post talking about loosing a patient i don't see how you could not think about the small caregivers that help people that much more than any center could.

when a caregiver will take the meds to the patient spend time with them and give meds at or below wholesale i don't see how any one could "not have time" to think about that...

Aye TS,

I don't think 1284 was just and only about throwing small caregivers under the bus. It was about throwing us ALL under the bus, communally. They are trying to find a way to end MMJ in Colorado. What they just don't get is this is larger than anyone, combined. At the risk of sounding "folk music" the winds of change are blowing!

Cheers mate,
j

[oldhaole]

This is sad...

As of the writing of this reply there have been 331 views of the post and of those 331 29 have replied and of them 26 have voted.

Seems to me, the poll should have 331 votes and 331 replies.

Just a observation and,
Bloke

While I replied, I did not vote. Please don't take it personally. I did not vote because your three options, to me, are incomplete. I think prices will go up, then as the new laws are sorted out, prices will fall.

[Justabloke]

While I replied, I did not vote. Please don't take it personally. I did not vote because your three options, to me, are incomplete. I think prices will go up, then as the new laws are sorted out, prices will fall.

Oh, no offence taken and none offered either! It was merely an observation and a very very, vague comment on Americans in general. I'm sure there are reasons ppl didn't reply/vote. It just seems to be a very high ignore rate given our MMJ/political climate as of late.

Da Bloke

[Justabloke]

Aye TS,

I don't think 1284 was just and only about throwing small caregivers under the bus. It was about throwing us ALL under the bus, communally. They are trying to find a way to end MMJ in Colorado. What they just don't get is this is larger than anyone, combined. At the risk of sounding "folk music" the winds of change are blowing!

Cheers mate,
j

In many ways; one could say right now is the 60s of the new Millennium.

Peace, Love, and Compassion :hippy::hippy::hippy::thumbsup::stoned:

Bloke

[TheReleafCenter]

There are some out there making money hand over fist like your compatition kiddy corner accross the street from you. Where I use to go. I can bad mouth them but I won't. I simply choose to show my support (or lack thereof) with my money (or lack thereof).

Yeah, bartending is cool if your not too busy to think but then you don't make much money and when you are too busy, it's high stress. I can see why this would be a LOT better job on many levels. I can only aspire to be able to help people like you, RLC, and others do in the community and when you hire me (always asume the sale!) I can say I am helping others!

j

If it's the place I think you mean, I'm not so sure about hand over fist. That's all I can say.

I love my job. I meet amazing people every day. Thanks J.


so saying this then you are just fine with the whole throw the true caregivers under the bus bill? you keep saying you have'nt had time to even think about the whole caregiver growing in homes deal.i don't see how but with the post talking about loosing a patient i don't see how you could not think about the small caregivers that help people that much more than any center could.

when a caregiver will take the meds to the patient spend time with them and give meds at or below wholesale i don't see how any one could "not have time" to think about that...

There's plenty to analyze, though. I think caregivers should be able to sell meds for profit, should be able to have more than five patients, and should be able to grow in their homes. There are too many patients in Colorado to have that ridiculous limit. Caregivers work hard too and should be able to earn a living off of their hard work.

But I don't know how that works. Should there be inspectors to make sure everything is up to code in their grow? Should someone have kids in the same house as their grow? Should they pay taxes on what they sell? I'm not a lawmaker.

My whole point was that there are people that do get quality care by way of a dispensary.

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

If I were a private grower with a 20/30 patient load, I'd be negotiating with dispensaries to get my current patients a huge discount at their shop. Don't think I've heard anyone talking about this yet. The caregiver still gets adequate compensation, their patients all get a hookup on their meds and the dispensary gets a little top shelf MMJ for putting up for the OPCL/MMC fees.

I've got a deal with a dispensary to give my patients a discount while I'm away for the month of June. My patients also have a private google map I've put together of other dispensaries should they not like what is offered by that one. Wish I had time to talk with other dispensaries, especially the ones on my map, but right now don't have the time, but at least my patients have a place to go and other choices too of places I've personally visited and can attest to the quality of product sold. Note to ReLeaf - you guys are on there too even though I still haven't had a chance to stop in, but at least I feel comfortable knowing my patients are going to be taken care of & not just treated like a walking/talking open wallet.

[TheReleafCenter]

I appreciate that. Stop in and at least take a tour, there's no paperwork involved.

[Denvertoad]

My whole point was that there are people that do get quality care by way of a dispensary.

Like the Releaf Center. ;)

Being upfront - they are my caregivers. Never had a beef, never been disappointed with their quality. Jake, and TRC, are damm good people.

There are some truly good dispensaries out there. Just as there are some truly suck dispensaries. And there are some damm good people out there too. Like anything it's a matter of separating the wheat from the chaff.

I'd love to grow at home, but there's too many dangers, obstacles, and too much uncertainty right now. Someday, sometime, someplace I'll grow my own. Until then I have to rely on dispensaries. Lumping all dispensaries with a carpetbagging/profiteering label is foolish at best.

I've read the bill over and again, and to be honest I still don't have a good clue where or how this will all wash out. It's fantastic we have good people out there willing to fight for this, but so to does the anti crowd. They've the best attorneys and LEO that our tax dollars can buy. They have the time and money, we have a constitutional amendment. The next year or so is going to be interesting.

JAB said:

In many ways; one could say right now is the 60s of the new Millennium.


I wish it was, but as it stands right now there's too many hanging back and hoping for others to do the legwork. How many made it up to Grateful Meds for the meeting? IIRC there was 9 people total up there. How about the veto march to the Governors home? Contrast either event with the attendance on 420 day in CC Park.

Too little populist passion and too much fear in the ranks for this to be a sixties equivalent. Until we find a personality that folks can rally around we're going to continue to wander semi aimlessly.

[TurboALLWD]

I wouldn't want to go to someones house, or have someone come to my house, with a limited selection of buds whenever they get around to it.

I think I've expressed my individual ideas on here quite clearly. I honestly haven't spent a lot of time thinking about home grows, but when I do, I will make sure to let ya know!


Honestly, my owners make less than I do. We built The Releaf Center off of savings and sweat. I can show you pictures of our remodel... it was intense. It sounds like you've been in, so you know we aren't the flashiest place out there.

I think caregivers should be able to sell meds for profit, should be able to have more than five patients, and should be able to grow in their homes. There are too many patients in Colorado to have that ridiculous limit. Caregivers work hard too and should be able to earn a living off of their hard work.

If that makes me Secret Evil Big Corporate Dispensary Man, so be it!:stoned::hippy:



Very hypocritical if you ask me. You might not be the absolutely flashiest dispensary out there but you're smoke shops pretty damn flashy in my book.

[Dorje113]

...you're smoke shops pretty damn flashy....

you're = you are

your = your (possessive)

Apostrophes | Punctuation Rules (http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp)

[TurboALLWD]

you're = you are

your = your (possessive)

Apostrophes | Punctuation Rules (http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp)

Good call :thumbsup: Maybe I shouldn't have medicated today. I'll try to return the favor sometime. ;)

[Dorje113]

Good call :thumbsup: Maybe I shouldn't have medicated today. I'll try to return the favor sometime. ;)

Cool, can't have you typing 2 more keys than needed. :D

[TheReleafCenter]

Very hypocritical if you ask me. You might not be the absolutely flashiest dispensary out there but you're smoke shops pretty damn flashy in my book.

I think we spent all of $500 on furniture. Most of the high end places are towards the thousands. We lucked out on the space, but there was NOTHING in here when we started except bathrooms and our two display cases. We did the whole build out with our crew, so I appreciate the compliment! :thumbsup:

[TurboALLWD]

I've got a deal with a dispensary to give my patients a discount while I'm away for the month of June. My patients also have a private google map I've put together of other dispensaries should they not like what is offered by that one. Wish I had time to talk with other dispensaries, especially the ones on my map, but right now don't have the time, but at least my patients have a place to go and other choices too of places I've personally visited and can attest to the quality of product sold. Note to ReLeaf - you guys are on there too even though I still haven't had a chance to stop in, but at least I feel comfortable knowing my patients are going to be taken care of & not just treated like a walking/talking open wallet.

Shoulda found them a caregiver while you were gone! I'm sure they would appreciate wholesale prices instead of 50 an 8th LoL.

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

Shoulda found them a caregiver while you were gone! I'm sure they would appreciate wholesale prices instead of 50 an 8th LoL.

They'll be getting a very fair price, plus I'll be loading them up before I take off. It's possible they might run out the last week, but I don't it. I'm guessing they'll probably go the first week or so, just to check out other strains for me to grow for them.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

I personally feel like the price fixing argument is ludicrous. I've made this argument in other threads, but "big dispensaries" aren't like a Walmart entity that can uniformly fix prices across the board. They're more like gas stations, with some that are big corporate places and others mom and pop. Prices are fixed to the market and there isn't a ton of variation.

i think there will be some ebb and flow on prices as there are in gov regulated products. howevever mind you that this is derived from underground and underground will exist as long as there is a need. "see a need, fill a need." with that more people can be arrested, prison stocks go up, more idiots make money off of us and before you know it you've done it! JAY TELL THEM WHAT THEY WON! you get an all expense paid vacation to one of the top two worst prisons in the world, courtesy of the USA government. but wait thats not all...how would you like all the sex you can take; well dream no more, bubba is waiting, and his 13"long 4" thick dick will satisfy all that you have to offer:thumbsup: so keep on doing your harmless product and you will be called a terrorist and end up at resort BUSH AND OTHER VILE TRAITOR PRESIDENTS AN ON DOWN THE LINE"

meded so you can mededicate to mededitate

[tutone]

High Country Caregiver has been gathering data about cost of medical marijuana in Colorado. You can give your input and see what others are saying about cost of medical marijuana as of right now:

Medical Marijuana Cost (http://highcountrycaregiver.com/wordpress/2010/05/medical-marijuana-cost/)

[rightwinger]

Whaddaya think?

If there are X number of dispensaries competing in the front range market, all of them legally allowed to grow as much as they want, this kind of competition could really drive prices down.

Others think there will be fewer dispensaries, and they will conspire to keep the prices high. I seriously doubt it, as not ALL dispensaries will go along with price fixing, plus it is illegal, and this industry is going to be closely monitored. If I owned a dispensary, I know I could make a lot of money AND sell $10 grams, $25 1/8ths, and $150 ozs.


Any time you add license fees from the state-and communities--that cost will be passed onto the consumer. The cost of growing indoor medical marijuana is very expensive and that is what patients are paying for now.

By making dispensories grow at least 70% of the product--puts the small time grower out of the loop--who very well could be growing a great product that is willing to sell for less--thereby limiting cost competition within this industry.

[SGMeds]

Surprises me that the politicians can't see the obvious...

Anything other than legalization creates (even necessitates) a 'black market'.

Here, we have a Bill that forces both black & gray market dealings... those that don't have patient status are totally black... and now forcing a gray market where patients deal with non-assigned caregivers, or dispensaries snagging caregiver dank.

The 'green' market that the Bill forces is commercial grade... high volume at the expense of variety & quality... no way around it. The possible exception (that I can see so far) is that some top-notch caregivers will partner (in legal form) with the mega-dispensaries, but will have to move out of the home and into an industrial/commercial building.


Combine all of this with the fact that the Bill will reduce the number of vendors & dispensaries... where can there possibly be downward pressure on price???

I'll lay 3:1 that we will see no drop in price over the next 2 years & that the selection & availability will be for shit over the next 1.5 years! ;-) If not for longer...

[puntacometa]

[quote=Dorje113]Whaddaya think?

If there are X number of dispensaries competing in the front range market, all of them legally allowed to grow as much as they want, this kind of competition could really drive prices down.

It will definitely drive prices down for the growers. I've been getting between $3600.00 and $4400.00 per lb from local dispensaries. That's going to change drastically...and soon. Look for growers for dispensaries to be offered $2500.00 or less. It's already happening. Once that becomes widespread, look for the quality to suffer unless the grower really knows his shit relative to being able to produce high quality yields from homegrown nutes. No more of those expensive boutique nutes......at least not without a major hit to your profit margin. It's definitely possible to do it with homegrown fertilizers, but not every grower has this level of experience. Those who know how to do this will be able to keep their margins high enough to stay in business.


Others think there will be fewer dispensaries, and they will conspire to keep the prices high. I seriously doubt it, as not ALL dispensaries will go along with price fixing, plus it is illegal, and this industry is going to be closely monitored. If I owned a dispensary, I know I could make a lot of money AND sell $10 grams, $25 1/8ths, and $150 ozs.

That's going to be interesting to see how it gets sorted out.......of course, once a grower is locked in to a contract at a certain price, he's really not going to benefit/suffer from price fixing, as long as his price is fixed and the dispensary can cash him out on a weekly basis. Being cashed out immediately rather than the dispensary taking the product on a front for x amount of time will be absolutely essential to the grower being able to continue to cover his fixed overhead.

[hippichic420]

Surprises me that the politicians can't see the obvious...

Anything other than legalization creates (even necessitates) a 'black market'.

Here, we have a Bill that forces both black & gray market dealings... those that don't have patient status are totally black... and now forcing a gray market where patients deal with non-assigned caregivers, or dispensaries snagging caregiver dank.

The 'green' market that the Bill forces is commercial grade... high volume at the expense of variety & quality... no way around it. The possible exception (that I can see so far) is that some top-notch caregivers will partner (in legal form) with the mega-dispensaries, but will have to move out of the home and into an industrial/commercial building.


Combine all of this with the fact that the Bill will reduce the number of vendors & dispensaries... where can there possibly be downward pressure on price???

I'll lay 3:1 that we will see no drop in price over the next 2 years & that the selection & availability will be for shit over the next 1.5 years! ;-) If not for longer...

I agree 100%

[copobo]

do you think some great Colorado meds will be heading out of state?

[throatstick]

do you think some great Colorado meds will be heading out of state?

i'd have to say prob yes..

these guys that have big grows won't just throw away the extras.

[relaxalot]

do you think some great Colorado meds will be heading out of state?

^^^^without a doubt. It will be just one way CO growers adapt. I'm sure some already are. It's really unfortunate for Colorado's economy.

[HighPopalorum]

Bumping this from six months ago. Has anyone noticed any increase in price? Prices here have dropped significantly. I don't attribute that to 1284, but rather to the several new places that have opened. I don't think 1284 has caused the increase in price many people expected. Anyone seen prices go up?

[lampost]

Bumping this from six months ago. Has anyone noticed any increase in price? Prices here have dropped significantly. I don't attribute that to 1284, but rather to the several new places that have opened. I don't think 1284 has caused the increase in price many people expected. Anyone seen prices go up?

You get what you pay for! I don't think anyone could justify charging the old prices for some of this warehouse shit! They had to come down...

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

Looks like Dorje was right - There was a guy last night at the bar I was at, telling people about where they could get $150 ounces.

[asscore]

I think the price for consumers is going to pretty much stay the same. Historically an 1/8 of good nugs has been $50. Even if the dispensary grows some crap themselves for $5 they are still going to charge $50.

Where the price needs to go (back) up is for the grower...

It costs alot of money to setup an operation, and alot of my time! Besides the fact that my bud is expertly soil grown, 100% organic, hand trimmed, and actually cured, it is never packaged in anything but glass mason jars.

I don't think I should have to take anything less than $4k a pound. The dispensary is going to sell it for $6400, making $2400, or 60% profit (not considering overhead).

The growers do the hard work. Dispensaries just sell the stuff.

Not that this matters because we all know that no dispensaries are still buying from non-centers:wtf:

Back in Wisco I was getting $5600 a pound, and people were basically fighting to suck my cock for this herb. That was wholesale!

I know that isnt going to happen here, but for less that $4k/lb its almost a money losing operation. I would be better off just growing for myself and having a "regular job".

[Dorje113]

I think prices will drop as dispensaries figure out how to grow, and as they do the successful ones will expand their operations as needed.

Another issue about 1284 is that the 70/30 rule could be interpreted as only allowing a dispensary to wholesale 30% of their crop, and if they are a small dispensary with a big harvest they will have to lower prices to be able to sell it all. Our warehouse is looking really good right now(knock on wood), and if it does real well we will have more weed than we can sell at our current rate of sales. Not a bad problem to have all-in-all but if we can only wholesale 30% we will have to run some special promotions....

It's true a lot of product is sub-par but that will change too... A lot of places are only on their 1st or 2nd runs in new warehouses with new strains. Soon enough, dispensaries that can't grow good weed will go out of business.

Then there are the greenhouses, yes there are some places ag. zoned property has been approved an you'll see thousands of pounds of greenhouse weed hit the market next year. If done right, it will be better than any warehouse indoor and should create a surplus driving down prices just like it does in CA.

Personally I look forward to the day the prices drop enough so the profiteers and d-bags go find another scam. I'm happy to grow more weed to make up for any drop in price. :)

[Dorje113]

I think the price for consumers is going to pretty much stay the same. Historically an 1/8 of good nugs has been $50. Even if the dispensary grows some crap themselves for $5 they are still going to charge $50.

Where the price needs to go (back) up is for the grower...

It costs alot of money to setup an operation, and alot of my time! Besides the fact that my bud is expertly soil grown, 100% organic, hand trimmed, and actually cured, it is never packaged in anything but glass mason jars.

I don't think I should have to take anything less than $4k a pound. The dispensary is going to sell it for $6400, making $2400, or 60% profit (not considering overhead).

The growers do the hard work. Dispensaries just sell the stuff.

Not that this matters because we all know that no dispensaries are still buying from non-centers:wtf:

Back in Wisco I was getting $5600 a pound, and people were basically fighting to suck my cock for this herb. That was wholesale!

I know that isnt going to happen here, but for less that $4k/lb its almost a money losing operation. I would be better off just growing for myself and having a "regular job".

Well, I completely disagree that $4k wholesale is anywhere near reasonable, if you can't do it for half that and be happy you should start looking at other careers. I'm not trying to be an ass but pretty soon there will be a lot of dispensaries growing excellent herb and I know for a fact that it is possible to wholesale for less than half of what you expect and still make a good living.

I almost can't wait for full legalization so the BS inflated prices from the black market are a thing of the past.

[senorx12562]

A friend of mine who owns a dispensary called me a week ago desperate for product, but unwilling to pay more than $175/0z at any quantity. I turned her down of course, and two days later was offered $ 1800 for .5lb. Found out later she ended up paying 3800 for a lb., and I know the grower and it was definitely inferior. Have no idea what that all means, except that my decision to stop selling to dispensaries was a good one.

[Zedleppelin]

There is a big variance in pricing because there is a big variance in quality. I think what 1284 has done so far (for non-dispensary pricing) is stabilized prices and possibly inched them up a notch for high quality herb. I know quite a few people who have been so disappointed with the product from dispensaries lately that they're willing to pay for better quality. That crap you see on Craiglist for $150 an oz is just that, crap.

[HarvestHouse]

Well, I completely disagree that $4k wholesale is anywhere near reasonable, if you can't do it for half that and be happy you should start looking at other careers. I'm not trying to be an ass but pretty soon there will be a lot of dispensaries growing excellent herb and I know for a fact that it is possible to wholesale for less than half of what you expect and still make a good living.

I almost can't wait for full legalization so the BS inflated prices from the black market are a thing of the past.

Dorje113 is right a rain. all the grey and illegal grows better get ready 2k/#

I sell my pot for $4000 a pound retail......at $250 an ounce. Pot will never be worth more than it is now.

[HighPopalorum]

Pot will never be worth more than it is now.

This is how I feel. As a patient, I've been cheering as prices for good pot crashed through the $50 price point. I'm curious to know what you and Dorje and any other center operators / commercial growers think will be a stable retail price for an ounce. In short, how low will it go?

[TheReleafCenter]

Prices are now between $2500 and $3200. We still see the occasional $3600, no one really over that.

[HarvestHouse]

This is how I feel. As a patient, I've been cheering as prices for good pot crashed through the $50 price point. I'm curious to know what you and Dorje and any other center operators / commercial growers think will be a stable retail price for an ounce. In short, how low will it go?


There will be and always be room on both ends of the market. There is a lot that determines market value of any commodity. My wife's father drove a hyundai yet belonged to Congressional County Club, the Drake and several other elite type clubs...... he could'a belonged to the Elks or Moose and drove Ferraris. Just an example of the varieties of places people put their priorities.

Whats the price of pot grown by a newbie with a warehouse vs. a 20 year grower?

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

Western slope is getting overrun with Cali outdoor. One can easily pick up a lb for $1500-1900 right now.

Of course come Jan/Feb - prices should go back up.

It's like any other commodity, price is going to fluctuate. I remember my trip to Holland back in the 90's - the news, besides talking about current gold & silver prices - also talked about current hemp prices

[SoCoMMJ]

Western slope is getting overrun with Cali outdoor. One can easily pick up a lb for $1500-1900 right now. Of course come Jan/Feb - prices should go back up.

Isn't that illegal? At some point the DOR is going to be checking inventories and where the product comes from.

[Dorje113]

There will be and always be room on both ends of the market. There is a lot that determines market value of any commodity. My wife's father drove a hyundai yet belonged to Congressional County Club, the Drake and several other elite type clubs...... he could'a belonged to the Elks or Moose and drove Ferraris. Just an example of the varieties of places people put their priorities.

Whats the price of pot grown by a newbie with a warehouse vs. a 20 year grower?



I also think that there will be a larger price difference between grades of weed in the future. Right now there isn't enough differentiation and people are getting away with selling mediocre weed for too much money. I have been growing for almost 20 years and think my weed should be worth more than a newbie's mediocre crapola for sure... and it is but not by enough IMO.

[HarvestHouse]

I also think that there will be a larger price difference between grades of weed in the future. Right now there isn't enough differentiation and people are getting away with selling mediocre weed for too much money. I have been growing for almost 20 years and think my weed should be worth more than a newbie's mediocre crapola for sure... and it is but not by enough IMO.

Here, here! your's is worth more........ My suspicions tell me it will be worth even more soon. The only market differentiation in CO right now is with the old heads........ and they don't need MMCs

[senorx12562]

Isn't that illegal? At some point the DOR is going to be checking inventories and where the product comes from.
LOL

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

Isn't that illegal? At some point the DOR is going to be checking inventories and where the product comes from.

It is illegal. But then again all this is illegal according to Feds. Think they care where it comes from. I'm all for CO-grown. Just getting the word out there that there's Cali stuff trying to make it's way around.

[Dorje113]

I thought I'd bump this thread :)

Right now, prices are on a sharp decline. Wholesale is down over 25% compared to when this thread was started, and retail has dipped well over 25%. We currently sell $250 ounces to members and I heard of one shop selling good quality mmj for $175. At $250/oz, that's $4k/lb, 25% above wholesale value. These are tight margins...

The 70/30 rule makes it so you have to sell 70% of your own production, and some smaller MMCs are having to cut prices quite a bit to be able to sell that much through their own shops.

Quality is also on the rise, right now it's difficult to wholesale anything but the highest quality meds, and even then prices are around $3k/lb. As time goes on I expect quality will continue to go up and MMCs that can't produce the best of the best will lose all their business and have to shut down.

[copobo]

there's super quality herb out there for 125/z and up in boco. everyone had to get these facilities to grow in, so mmc's grow their limit in 10 times the amount of space that was being used pre-1284. It's kinda crazy how low prices are. I can't see how most centers are making it.

[Dorje113]

there's super quality herb out there for 125/z and up in boco. everyone had to get these facilities to grow in, so mmc's grow their limit in 10 times the amount of space that was being used pre-1284. It's kinda crazy how low prices are. I can't see how most centers are making it.

Yeah, unless MMCs grow the goods, sell it for a good price, and have a larger operation to provide some economy of scale I think their days might be numbered. However, if the local and state governments end up denying licencing for a lot of shops it will make it easier for the others to survive.

Honestly, the risk/reward ratio is so poor right now I kinda wished I stayed away from MMCs entirely... woulda been better off as a private CG. Gov't f*cks it all up....what else is new.

BUT... from the consumers point of view this is great. There is tons of variety, prices are low and top quality isn't hard to find. And you can just walk into a shop and buy it legally rather than deal with BM dealers.

[HighPopalorum]

BUT... from the consumers point of view this is great. There is tons of variety, prices are low and top quality isn't hard to find. And you can just walk into a shop and buy it legally rather than deal with BM dealers.

Fiddler's Green ain't in it. CO smokers have never had it so good.

[cowgirl1]

Ah yes, this could certainly happen and would keep prices up.

However, wasn't there a bill proposed that would protect CO residents from federal prosecution? If that passes it would be great news.

Does not matter what the states passes or does not pass concerning laws to protect patients, stores, growers etc from the feds. Federal laws over rule ay and all states laws. Example. If the state of CO says it's OK to grow 1 or 100 plants and the feds get a wild hair to arrest you with something as simple as one seed then poof you will get arrested and there is not a dam thing the tate can do about it. Alot of you know the family that I come from "law enforcement" "feds" and I warned everyone about crack downs that were going to take place in th future and where the feds stood on issues. Some just gafted it off. Well look back know at all I said and see I was 100% right. I am here to tell you it is going to get a lot worse and the feds are coming soon again! with the state right in there pack pockets

[canaguy27]

. I am here to tell you it is going to get a lot worse and the feds are coming soon again! with the state right in there pack pockets

could you please elaborate for us?