Aspirin: How long for effects?

[WashougalWonder]

Ok I want to make this RMT make me some pollen. I just harvested most of one, leaving enough to get me some response from the plant.

How long after applying the aspirin does it take to show the nanners....on the average.

There is no intention of smoking what is left, but I still prefer something I know my body accepts.

So keep in the flower room for how long after the application....probably will only get one application as the plant will use little water now.

Thanks.

[Rusty Trichome]

A week to 10 days or so. Some strains are more tollerant, and a second application may be necessary. For those members that replenish and re-use their soil... Don't re-use this soil. :thumbsup: Once nanners start showing, it will take a week or two for them to mature and open.

What kind of aspirin are you using? (salicylic acid?)

[WashougalWonder]

Just generic...I have enteric coated and will crush them first, 325 mg

[Rusty Trichome]

I never used coated aspirin, but likely should be ok. Guess it depends on what the coating is...

Does the active ingredient mention salicylic acid?

[WashougalWonder]

Ya Rusty all aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid. The coating is just to get past the stomach so folks with stomach problems absorb it in the gut not the stomach...I was once a paramedic, wife is an RN.

Well, she is back in the flower room, hope this works, I would love to feminize this cannabis, the more I smoke it and the more it matures, the more I like it. I will get some seeds to ya if this works out for helping.:thumbsup:

[Rusty Trichome]

Was just making sure it was aspirin. Since some consider Tylenol an aspirin substitute, tiz a good idea to double-check. :thumbsup:

[WashougalWonder]

Gotcha...Thanks man.

[Rusty Trichome]

A tad early, but any changes yet?

[LLLou2]

This is new information to me, what are you doing with Aspirin ? From what I gathered it sounds like you are purposely herming a female to self polinate ??? Is that close ? Is it possible.
IF Aspirin is used could a person use Willow Water instead :cool:?

[WashougalWonder]

As of yesterday, no change Rusty

Yes, I am deliberately trying to get some nanners off of one specific female to get some seeds, it is a one of a kind and a fricking killer weed.

Going to give another dose of aspirin today, plant looks fine so far.

[Rusty Trichome]

Should be fine adding an extra aspirin per quart on the next dose. How many did you use this last time?

[WashougalWonder]

3-325 mg, in a 3 gallon pot in a quart of water dissolved.

As a side note, I started harvesting pollen off my two outdoor males last night. Soon will be able to kill and up my harem again. :jointsmile:

[bubadutep75]

I had no idea you could cause a plant to hermie with asperin, how is it done, I am thinking of donig that to my White widow since I only have one and the seeds are too expensive, thanks for the post

[WashougalWonder]

I have given 3 doses of aspirin almost a gram per dose. As of yesterday, still no sign of nanners. Also stressing with light changes, flower room for a day or two then the veg room for a day.

This friggin plant is so stable. The only problem is if you smoke it every day you build a tolerance, every other day and it is one hit weed and I am using over an ounce a week as a normal medication load, of good stuff, widow, haze, star, etc. (I constantly change what I smoke for either different daily needs or specific pain issues.) I have to get this stuff out to others somehow...legally.

Still have to get the pollen first. If this doesn't work, will have to try that giberillic (sp) acid stuff.

[Rusty Trichome]

It's nice to have a stable strain, but I have had this problem in the past, too. Some strains do require a higher concentration of aspirin, but my PokerFace is my most difficult. I think I was up to 6 aspirin per quart before I gave-up, lol. (I use light poisoning for that strain now)

I'd think with the combination of techniques, there would be some changes. :wtf:

[WashougalWonder]

so where do you look for that giberillic acid? Common names?

[Rusty Trichome]

Bummer you have to resort to the hormones. I have had many successes with both aspirin and light poisoning. Difficult to believe that the combination had no effect. :(

Mega Gro growth stimulator is one I used many years ago. Inconsistent results, but I was a little wary of even using it, and went with lower doses which resulted in slower results. When I tried upping the ratios, I burned the branches. (use care)
There's a Dutch product or two available also, but I've never used 'em.

[WashougalWonder]

Well I am still letting nature take it's course. I am going to have to transplant so the roots don't deteriorate, and I guess I will try even more aspirin. It is just sitting there, not growing, not dying, only a few new pistils.

[WashougalWonder]

Whoa, WTF is the gibberillic acid? I asked at the horticluture store and they like freaked telling me it was killer stuff.

Is the purpose to lower the PH or some other function? I can acidify the soil with apple cider vinegar or some other non toxic stuff. I don't think I want to try that gibberillic stuff. I don't want it near ME, fuck the plant.

Crap, I just wish this were 100% legal and could pass it around and share it with the whole world.

Oh, ya repotted, glad I did, the roots were staying too wet and not looking good, pretty root bound too.

[Rusty Trichome]

Kinda jumping the gun calling it killer. Granted, there are many gardeners that profess it as a poison, yet have no clue what it is or what it does. The Dutch have been using GA on cannabis for over twenty years, and agriculture has used it longer. It changes the structure of the plant cells, so you risk altering the genetics with every use. Not sure how many generations it takes for the changes to hold, but negative effects are possible in the offspring. It's not a panacea, but to some, it's an alternative.

Gibbrellins are a naturally-occuring plant hormone and have a number of effects on plant development. They can:

1) stimulate rapid stem and root growth.
2) induce mitotic division in the leaves of some plants.
3) increase seed germination rate.
4) induce male flowers on a female plant.

Gibberellic acid is sometimes used in laboratory and greenhouse settings to trigger germination in seeds that would otherwise remain dormant. It is also widely used in the grape-growing industry as a hormone to induce the production of larger bundles and bigger grapes, especially Thompson seedless grapes, and in the Okanagan and Creston Valley it is used in the cherry industry as a growth regulator.
(most of above from Wiki)
Used in fruit and vegetable farming, it has been determined the product is 'safe'. However, no testing on how the combusted (smoked) hormones affect med patients.

Aspirin is a chemical stressor. I'm guessing it's a temporary ph swing, but am not 100% positive. Inconsistent, but usually reliable. Have you checked the buds for nanners? They don't always appear at the nodes. Also, I'm not sure what oversaturation does to this process, but dilution of the aspirin below a certain level is likely not helping. I'd check the buds closely for the lime-green (yellowish green?) nannersacks.

There's also silver thiosulfate, and colloidal silver, which is a heavy metal stressor. Smoking the stuff is likely a real bad idea. Never tried it though. It's supposed to revert the plant to it's original sex after hermying, and some think it stresses a healthy plant into hermaphrodism. (apparently it does whatever you want it to do, lol) Overuse as a tincture creates a skin condition that temporarily turns skin blueish grey though.

Light poisoning keeps the plant dumping vegetative and flowering hormones, stressing her into a panic for self-pollination before the end of the season. (the normal end of her life) If aspirin doesn't take hold, this is my alternative.

I've used the GA, but was unsuccessful. Got tired of killing branches and slowing growth while trying to dial it in, and went back to using the aspirin therapy.

[WashougalWonder]

Rusty,
Ya, I am checking the buds, nodes, every bit of the plant as it is in the flower room and I certainly do not want to get a bunch of my girls knocked up....just got things back in order from when I had my heart attack last winter.

That is partly why I want this thing to get my nanners, as it messes with my plant count.

Well I will research the GA, the plant is starting to show signs of continuing growth instead of just sitting stagnant.

You raised some questions tho, you mention genetic changes down the road...generations. Can you elaborate? Do you mean that any seeds derived will (once grown) continue to change back to the original male/female/hermie?????

Please describe your method of light poisoning.
Thanks Dude

[Rusty Trichome]

Rusty,
Ya, I am checking the buds, nodes, every bit of the plant as it is in the flower room and I certainly do not want to get a bunch of my girls knocked up....just got things back in order from when I had my heart attack last winter.
That is partly why I want this thing to get my nanners, as it messes with my plant count.
I know what you mean about plant count. Pollinating only a couple ladies, and you end-up having to keep 'em till the seeds have fully developed, throwing-off the crop rotation even further, lol. Tiz why I paint the pollen on the lower branches. I can harvest the bulk of the plant, but leave the seeds to cook longer in a secluded corner.



Well I will research the GA, the plant is starting to show signs of continuing growth instead of just sitting stagnant. I ended-up not giving the GA much of an effort. Lost a couple of branches, (fried) and the aspirin technique was starting to show some success, so I quit using it as a failure. Likely I could have dialed it in, but wasn't worth the back-up it was creating. The stuff does work with cracking tough to germinate seeds though. (old, immature...)



You raised some questions tho, you mention genetic changes down the road...generations. Can you elaborate? Do you mean that any seeds derived will (once grown) continue to change back to the original male/female/hermie????? Anything that can influence the plant over time can and will change the 'habits' of a plant. If you keep feeding the plants hormones, they start talking in a soft voice, want a new wardrobe, and start wearing make-up. A big pain in the ass...<kidding>
Hormones and steroids alter the plants response to it's enviornment. This can include, but is not limited to it's response to light, heat, wind, ground conditions, humidity, predation... And being a cause-and-effect living being, it stores these responses in their genetic memory bank for future reference and possible use. This can alter the plants intermode elongation or compaction, trichomes pore spacing, pithy or hollow stems, flavors and aftertaste...And it can also alter sexual expression, which is why we are using it on cannabis. The major problem is, that over time, it can genetically imprint hermaphrodism in the genes. Usually from continued femming of sucessive generations of seeds, or from starting with a genetically weak subject to begin with.
Somewhere in the distant past (thousands of years ago...?) cannabis found that in emergencies, throwing-out a few late-stage nanners helped to propogate the species. Twas a sucessful evolutionary 'hail mary'. Taking advantage of this recessive trait is why we are able to fem the ladies now a days. Do it too often, hermaphrodism becomes no longer recessive, but an active genetic response to maturity.


Please describe your method of light poisoning.
Thanks Dude
Ok. I wait till she's been in active flower mode for a couple or few weeks. (I let her get into her flowering rhythm) Then, I place the lady to be exposed near the front of my outdoor growshed. Once it's been in dark for a couple of hours, I sneak in and steal her away into the house. I put her under a couple of 23w growth CFL's for 10-30 minutes (Depending on what's on tv. Plants love the Discovery channel, by the way...) then I return her to the shed. When I first tried this, I was doing it two or three days, and waiting for a response. (no longer removing her, but looking for nanners) Now, I keep doing it till I see nanners peeking out. About a week, week and a half, depending on the strain. The idea is to not have a steady schedule for her. I even vary the times I remove her from the shed. One night, the 6:00 news, the next night Jay Leno, the next is American Idol... It pisses 'em off, and nanners are usually the result. Like an advanced, purpose-driven light leak.

The thing I love most about the light poisoning, is when you re-veg her...she forgets all about the abuses, and 'normal' sexuality (and re-veg growth) returns.

Never heard of a fem-proof cannabis plant, so you should eventually find the right combination for your ladies. I'm sure there's a strain or two that are ultra stubborn, but cannabis is cannabis.

[ForgetClassC]

WE are planning on making a GPD x Cheese and a GPD x CHocolope this season, the GPD x Chocolope should be some niiiiiice.

-C

[Rusty Trichome]

The Chocolope cross sounds intriguing...but does the cheese really taste like cheese...? <kidding>

[WashougalWonder]

I found some stuff yesterday with GA in it that is used to set tomato blooms. Has some other stuff too. Anyhow comes in spray bottle???

Yesterdays inspection shows there is new growth again, so lookin close.

So far I the light has been a day in veg room, a day in flower, back and forth, inconsistent changes. Sometimes I skip a day on either side.

Back to the GA, spray it on? A lot, a little, virtually no info out there on doing this...that I have found.

[Rusty Trichome]

From what I understand, the key is the concentration of GA in the solution. (which, I didn't fully understand, and burned the ladies, lol)

Like I said, I used Mega Gro, and their website has some helpful GA info. GA Growing Tips (http://www.megagro.com/pdf/growing_tips.pdf)
After the growing tips, it lists the different application rates and 'special' concentrations. (page 6)

I don't know which product you did get, but perhaps their website would have some product-specific info along the same lines. But start out with lower concentrations, either way.

Come to think of it, that's one of the reasons for my frustration with the stuff. I wanted it to save a strain but had no experience with GA. Was running out of time, and was getting desperate. I went with the higher dilution rates, and paid the price of panicked ignorance. Once I burned the branches I sprayed it on, and I found aspirin worked, I never used it for femming again.
I have used it on occation for tough to crack seeds though.

Coffee's ready, and it's Amber's turn on the computer. BBL.

[WashougalWonder]

Well tossed the subject that have been working on. Decided to make a clone to make a male, period, end of story.

I will get some of that stuff you linked me to and read the whole document, not in reading mode right now.

The one I was working on just was not looking good, and heck since my garden is perpetual, I can make just one clone to induce maleness in. I can start the light poison as soon as flowers show, same with the aspirin, and then use the GA if I have to. I really want the genetics as pure as possible, I really, really want to perpetuate this with seeds.

Along the way, I am learning how to utilize this species without getting a tolerance buildup. Only use it once per day at the most and it stays one hit weed. :rastasmoke:
:S5:

[Rusty Trichome]

That sux. You'll likely run into the same problem with every femming technique though. Takes some dialing-in and patience. I know all too well about interferring with a perpeptual grow. Tiz a bitch keeping one mature lady around, and have to raise the incoming plants to match it's height for the lights. Thank goodness for milk crates, lol. :thumbsup:

I do start the stressing process (aspirin) once sex has been established and they are just starting their PMS, about a week into flower. (PMS - pre-motherhood stretch)
Now I'm wondering if the timing is as important as the method...
(gee, thanks. More shit to learn, lol)

But, I know it works because I've done it a few times with each method.
I'm in the beginnings of a seed run and can't do it now, but I'll have to go get some aspirin and see if I can commit to a grow log. Perhaps I'll do both methods side-by-side and see what happens. Going to be a couple/few months, though. I almost ran myself out of PokerFace, so I'm in 'panicking for pollination' mode. It's not a strain I'd feel ok about losing, nor would I risk femming till 'normal' seeds are in-hand.
Yes, I feel that proper, pre-planned femming is basically a stable process and doesn't degrade the genes if done infrequently, but I'm not stupid. :jointsmile:

Also, for future reference...never fem a female seed, femmed last run. Pollinate with a male inbetween to re-assert genetic stability.

Hope all else is well. Say Hi to the wife for us...:cool:

[WashougalWonder]

Now I'm wondering if the timing is as important as the method...
(gee, thanks. More shit to learn, lol) COOL

Also, for future reference...never fem a female seed, femmed last run. Pollinate with a male inbetween to re-assert genetic stability.

Hope all else is well. Say Hi to the wife for us...:cool:

And a Hi comes back at you's.

The "fem a female seed." Most of the special stuff I have is a fem from cross female pollination...does that make sense? I rarely cross one on itself. Does that put me in that category of femming a female seed, femmed last run? Don't have a male of the species, that is the damn problem. The only one I did that with was my white widow and came up with a very indica dom that has most of the taste, smell, and high characteristics of the original white widow and thus far (3 years) no tendency to herm. It does not look like it's mother at all.

In particular, RMT, the one I have been playing with trying to get nanners, was multiple stressed fem pollination from several different mothers over time, eliciting this plant.

New item...you mention large mothers. I don't bother, I just make sure I have a clone that took before the eldest goes into flower. If I did it keeping all sorts of mothers around I would be well over my legal count. Heck half my garden is 'mothers' in various stages of vegetative growth. About half make it to the flower room, the rest just perpetuate and the eldest get murdered if count is an issue. I develop tolerance so fast, I have to use different stuff every day to keep down on consumption.

Right now, my garden has a bunch of newbies from seeds I deliberately made. Many will not go to flower first round as I need to make sure that my regular stuff supply will not suffer if any of these are loosers.

[Rusty Trichome]

The "fem a female seed." Most of the special stuff I have is a fem from cross female pollination...does that make sense? I rarely cross one on itself. Does that put me in that category of femming a female seed, femmed last run? Don't have a male of the species, that is the damn problem. The only one I did that with was my white widow and came up with a very indica dom that has most of the taste, smell, and high characteristics of the original white widow and thus far (3 years) no tendency to herm. It does not look like it's mother at all.
The 'femming a female seed" is just a guideline to help keep the genetics sound. If there's no choice, there's no choice. But if I were paying top dollar for femmed seeds, I'd do what was necessary not to have to pay that price again, by making my own seeds.


New item...you mention large mothers. I don't bother, I just make sure I have a clone that took before the eldest goes into flower. If I did it keeping all sorts of mothers around I would be well over my legal count. Heck half my garden is 'mothers' in various stages of vegetative growth.
I was refering to a slow-growing female from the last crop taking forever to finish, while you have a new crop all ready to go into flower. With a 1000w HPS it's effective light range is up to 4 feet though, so I put the slow grower against the wall and adjust light to a happy middle-ground. When this happens, I often harvest her earlier than I'd like. Oh well.


About half make it to the flower room, the rest just perpetuate and the eldest get murdered if count is an issue. I develop tolerance so fast, I have to use different stuff every day to keep down on consumption.
I used to mix it up...sativa dom, then an indica, back-n-forth, mainly because of the tollerance issues. Now, I find myself pushing the seeds from sativa doms twords the back of the cupboard and going with the heavy indica's.

Are you running one growth room and one flowering room?
I did for years. Still do, but now I also have a seedling/clone room on fluoro tubes. From the fluoro tubes, they go to CFL's. From the CFL's they go to HPS. A slow rise in progressive light intensity. I got tired of coming-up short on plant count in flower, and I'd rather cull 50 seedlings due to a back-up, than have vacant spots in the flower room. :thumbsup:

[WashougalWonder]

I used to mix it up...sativa dom, then an indica, back-n-forth, mainly because of the tollerance issues. Now, I find myself pushing the seeds from sativa doms twords the back of the cupboard and going with the heavy indica's.

Are you running one growth room and one flowering room?
.... I'd rather cull 50 seedlings due to a back-up, than have vacant spots in the flower room. :thumbsup:

Yeah, I find the sativas give me less of what I need most of the time. I also like the growth patterns more of the indicas.

I have 2 rooms, seedlings are in veg room under the table under fluorescent t-5s, they go from clone tray to seedling tray (humidity covered). After a week or so, they move above table and are under the HID. Yeah, I throw out a minimum of 50% of my clones and 20% of my vegged stuff to stay in count every week. Sometimes if I have enough of a specific, I will pass on a flowering round and just get babies and perpetuate, never going to flower room at all.

I have like 6 mainstay breeds, and 5 up and coming, gee what is it like plants. I try to use 2 different species each day to avoid the tolerance issues. I have one for daytime and one for night time usually.

WW

[Rusty Trichome]

I know it's tough with a perpeptual garden, but if you can add a couple of weeks to the flowering time, you'll likely find a whole new effect for each strain. (psychotropic wise)

[WashougalWonder]

Well the flower room has potential of 10 weeks, many mature before that. I have to really watch what I am doing so I don't end up with everything coming out at the same time, stall on this one, advance that one depending on maturity.

Now, back to the aspirin. I have a young one of these I put in the flower room, just in a 1/2 gal pot. Should show flowers end of next (this)week. When do I start the ASA (that is medicalese for aspirin) after the flowering starts? No interest in anything but pollen off this plant.

Light poison at the same time? Suggestion for the method?....hours, etc.

Found the giberillic acid in many products for making tomatoes set, spray on application only. Want to avoid if at all possible, I want this to be as pure as possible.

[Rusty Trichome]

To those of you beginners that think this may be for you...think again. This is an advanced technique. If you do not fully understand the growing process, and don't know the "'why's and how's" ...this can ruin your genetics.
(learn to grow, first)

Anyway...
I start the process a week or two into flower. I give her a chance to fall into her biological rhythm, then I start messing with her.

2 or 3 - 325mg aspirin (ASA) per quart of properly ph'd water. Treatments (aspirin in it's daily freshwater) continue till nanners show. Continue normal feeding schedule whilst waiting. If you water every day, she should get the treatments every day. If you water every other day, treatments are every other day...
Allow nanners to ripen and at least a couple of 'em open before discontinuing treatments.

The idea is to stress her into offering you her nannerdust. The method of stress almost doesn't matter, unless you overdo the stress and it kills her. Using aspirin and light poisoning together is fine. They'll likely fight over credit for making the nanners, but that's ok. :jointsmile:

For the light poisoning, I wait till she fully acclimates to the flowering schedule. (at least a full two weeks) After she settles-in, I'll wait for a couple hours after lights-out, and I'll sneak-in and bring her in the house. I'll set her in the clone room and properly light her as if she was in growth mode. I leave her in the light for between about fifteen minutes to a half an hour, (I set my timer or I'll forget) at which time I'll put her back so she's there during the flower rooms lights-on time.
I vary the times that I come in, sometimes even skipping a night, and the duration of the night-lighting. (remember...you want her to stress the nanners out of her) A couple of weeks of this and she usually cries "Uncle". Sometimes a tad quicker, sometimes a tad longer...

With either of these methods, you can reveg her without nanners. With the ASA'd lady you'll have to severely cut-back the rootball to remove residual aspirin though. Flushing didn't help on my first go around with the aspirin technique, but downsizing did work.

Better luck this time. :thumbsup:

[WashougalWonder]

Cool Rusty, I think I will have better luck as this plant is going just for the nanners, no intention of allowing to mature, or reveg, just want the nanners.

It has been in a week, started to show first flowers yesterday, will give another week and start the process.

Speaking of re-veg, I noticed yesterday the males I had pulled up outdoors, had re-vegged and got bunches more pollen off them before lifting the root ball off the ground. Damn weeds. :D