Germination Problems, Help Please

[Phant0m]

Hey,
Firstly, sorry if this is the wrong section, in my quick look through the sections I did not see "help".
Secondly, I am new. Have been reading the forums for ages, the Closet / Cabinet section being the inspiration for me starting to grow.

Ok here's my problem, my seeds don't seem to be germinating! I've downloaded videos, watched more on Youtube and even look through here. There seemed to be many different techniques, so I tried two to start off with.
My seeds are of unknown quality/health, I got them free from my mate. If you can spot anything wrong please say so. (sorry for the low quality).
The whiter/brighter images have been "Auto-Corrected".

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9364/dscf36512.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/dscf36512.jpg/)
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http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3640/dscf3654o.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/dscf3654o.jpg/)


I started off with two seeds in moist paper towel, under Glad Wrap (Cling foil?), just sitting under a 40W normal bulb on for 45mins off for 15mins. This kept the temperature between 20°C and 25°C (68 to 77 °F). After 3 full days, nothing had happened so I thought I may aswell just put one of the seeds into a Jiffy. Another 2 days have been, one seed still in moist paper towels, one in a jiffy. Both covered to keep humidity up, also with a tissue on top so to not burn or have direct light on the seed.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2637/dscf3655z.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/dscf3655z.jpg/)
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5500/dscf3656.jpg (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/dscf3656.jpg/)
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http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1636/dscf3660r.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/dscf3660r.jpg/)
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6053/dscf3661f.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/dscf3661f.jpg/)

All I have noticed is that the seeds became darker.

Things I know i did wrong: Tap water, if this is a big problem i will use purified next try?
Am I meant to keep them dark?

Is there anything else I can do? I heard something about shaking the seeds around in a match box. Soaking the seeds in water for 24hours. Videos made this look real easy! Ideally I just want to get one or two plants started, hope like heck one is a girl!

Thanks for having a read of my thread, any help would be awesome!

PS. Sorry, couldn't seem to get previews working for the pictures so you'll have to open up the links.

[cigarettes42]

your messing up your seeds badly. seeds need to be germed in the dark. after its in the moist paper towel they need darkness. check em after a few days and they should pop, then you can plant. you could also just start them in dirt. you should start seeing plants emerge in 1-2 weeks. only time you start giving them 24/0 light is when they popped through the soil.

[Phant0m]

Ok so let me get this clear before i stuff up more seeds lol.

You think i should do the paper towel thing in a plate with glad wrap, but keep them warm and dark. Leave them for say 3 days, then check them. If they haven't cracked what do i do?
If they have, i simply put them in a jiffy and then plant them into my soil?

What do you think about using an electric blanket to heat them? Electric blanket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_blanket)
They will defiantly need some heat, Its coming into winter here and its all of 15°C (59°F) in the middle of the day inside..

Thanks

EDIT: Oh, and should i just ditch the two seeds i have now? or should i try it with them?

[WashougalWonder]

Interesting that I just had a new species I created that I could not get these awesome looking seeds to crack open. I had one in the paper towel for 10 days and it still did not crack, just darken. I got bold and took some forceps and just barely squeezed it until it cracked along the seam. Within 6 hours the root was doing it's thing, by the next day it was planted.

You can check the seed as often as you like, it doesn't hurt it, just do not let it dry out, but not sopping wet either.

:jointsmile:

[Phant0m]

...took some forceps and just barely squeezed it until it cracked along the seam...

You don't think I should do that? Seems pretty advanced?



You can check the seed as often as you like, it doesn't hurt it, just do not let it dry out, but not sopping wet either.

Ok that. It just doesn't make sense to me that a seed, which has lived without us for thousands of years can not be exposed to sun, well light?

[TheChameleon]

To test a seed put it into a glass of water and set it in the closet for a day... If the seed sinks it is good just plant it in the jiffy... If the seed is floating give it a nudgh to see if it sinks...

Forcing a seed open seems drastic but moisture has to penetrate it to grow,,, thats why it sinks...

[Phant0m]

To test a seed put it into a glass of water and set it in the closet for a day... If the seed sinks it is good just plant it in the jiffy... If the seed is floating give it a nudgh to see if it sinks...

Forcing a seed open seems drastic but moisture has to penetrate it to grow,,, thats why it sinks...

OK cool, thanks. Ill chuck some seeds into a cup of water now!

[Phant0m]

UPDATE: Since I've chucked my jiffy with seed and plate in the electric blanket (no more light), the seed in the jiffy has cracked, I don't see any root tho, so I'm afraid I've killed it, but hey, all learning!
Seed in paper towel still looks the same.
I've not yet left seeds in water as I didn't haven't any distilled/purified water (will buy some tonight).

QUESTION: If I just plant a seed in a jiffy, how long am I expecting to see a little plant pop out? Like whats a reasonable time I should leave it?

Thanks

[TheChameleon]

UPDATE: Since I've chucked my jiffy with seed and plate in the electric blanket (no more light), the seed in the jiffy has cracked, I don't see any root tho, so I'm afraid I've killed it, but hey, all learning!
Seed in paper towel still looks the same.
I've not yet left seeds in water as I didn't haven't any distilled/purified water (will buy some tonight).

QUESTION: If I just plant a seed in a jiffy, how long am I expecting to see a little plant pop out? Like whats a reasonable time I should leave it?

ThanksI've had a seed pop in as little as 3 days and as long as 10...
no real expected time...
If you cant wait for a seed to pop then think about how long it takes to get to maturity 3 or so months...

[Phant0m]

I've had a seed pop in as little as 3 days and as long as 10...
no real expected time...
If you cant wait for a seed to pop then think about how long it takes to get to maturity 3 or so months...

Oh yeah I know its going to take time to grow, but I just want to know a reasonable time before I may aswell throw out the jiffy.

Two seeds are now at the bottom of a jar of water, going to pop them in jiffys in the morning :D

[GetThisOrDie]

Whats up Phant0m...

This is how I have 100% germ rate so far. I take 2-3 paper towels and soak them in tap water then ring it out but not too much. I then begin to fold it over itself many times until its a thick square of moist folds( if that makes sense). Put the seeds in the middle and put the stack in a ziplock baggie. I put the bag inside of a black dvd case and sit the case on something warm like a tv or computer monitor. I even sometimes put the case close to a light bulb to warm it up because the light wont penetrate the dvd case.
Usually within 24-48 hours they have a good root coming out and ready to be planted.

I have also used the water in a shotglass or whatever method but it seemed to take a few days longer. Have had seeds take up to 5 days as well so be patient and goodluck.

[Phant0m]

Whats up Phant0m...

This is how I have 100% germ rate so far. I take 2-3 paper towels and soak them in tap water then ring it out but not too much. I then begin to fold it over itself many times until its a thick square of moist folds( if that makes sense). Put the seeds in the middle and put the stack in a ziplock baggie. I put the bag inside of a black dvd case and sit the case on something warm like a tv or computer monitor. I even sometimes put the case close to a light bulb to warm it up because the light wont penetrate the dvd case.
Usually within 24-48 hours they have a good root coming out and ready to be planted.

I have also used the water in a shotglass or whatever method but it seemed to take a few days longer. Have had seeds take up to 5 days as well so be patient and goodluck.

Thank you sir! Jesus, 100% :O This will most defiantly be my next attempt method, if the two seeds that have soaked in water then straight into a jiffy don't work! And if they do, yay! I don't want to start up more seeds just in case this does work, only have room for ~2 plants (closet growing).

Its good having more than one input, seeing other peoples methods.
Thanks all that have helped

[TheChameleon]

I tend to not go for the paper towel thing because of the shock factor... Why take another chance of acclimating open air sprout to dirt???

[Phant0m]

I tend to not go for the paper towel thing because of the shock factor... Why take another chance of acclimating open air sprout to dirt???

Yeah fair enough, seems alot more natural to just pop a seed in dirt.

UPDATE: Keeping the jiffys in a cup, gladwrap over top, moist, dark, and at around 26°C (78°F). No sign of anything as of yet. Been around 36hours.

I just want the little plants to start growing :D

[TheChameleon]

Hahahaha,,, it's like watching water boil...

[Dutch Pimp]

I planted 7 Nirvana Papaya seeds over 7 days ago. None sprouted..:(...

...so, I planted 7 homemade Nirvana WW seeds...next to the papaya seeds...and they popped in 4 days...as usual...:thumbsup:...I can tell they are the WW's because of the location in the cup....a little off center.

If the papaya pop later?...they have to beat the WW's to the draw...:pimp:

winner takes all

[Rusty Trichome]

Things I know i did wrong: Tap water, if this is a big problem i will use purified next try? Seeds prefer a slightly acidic enviornment to germinate. That's why most peat based seed starting mixes are unbuffered. (peat moss is acidic)


Am I meant to keep them dark? Yes, keep them in the dark till they crack.


Is there anything else I can do? I heard something about shaking the seeds around in a match box. Soaking the seeds in water for 24hours. You're missing part of the matchbox technique. (the sandpaper lining) Some harder to crack seeds benefit from scuffing the shell a bit. This removes some of the seed's waxy coating and allows moisture in. The seed absorbs the waqter making it swell and crack-open. But don't overdo it with the sanding.


PS. Sorry, couldn't seem to get previews working for the pictures so you'll have to open up the links. Did you try to upload the pictures as an attachment? (the paperclip symbol)

Have patience. Sometimes they just take a while.

[Phant0m]

Woohoo, lots of interest now! Thanks!

Darn, 7 days! It has almost been 60 hours for me, so I'm still awhile off you.

Cool, well the seeds are in the jiffy so hopefully they're slightly acidic.

And no, I didn't know about the paper clip attachment button, next picture I up I'll try it out (hopefully of some little plants popping up to say Hi).

Thanks!

[TheChameleon]

Woohoo, lots of interest now! Thanks!

Darn, 7 days! It has almost been 60 hours for me, so I'm still awhile off you.

Cool, well the seeds are in the jiffy so hopefully they're slightly acidic.

And no, I didn't know about the paper clip attachment button, next picture I up I'll try it out (hopefully of some little plants popping up to say Hi).

Thanks!

Jiffy's are peat...

[Phant0m]

Jiffy's are peat...
Ahh then I should be set then.


Its been 4 days (I think), still nothing. Doing as I have been doing, warm, moist and dark.

To get some soil acidic if I wanted to try just planting the seeds straight into a little pot, what could I use that I'd have a home? I've done basic chemistry at school. Vinegar?

Oh, are all MH lights the same? I found this on an auction site, "TRANSFORMER / BALAST FOR METAL HALIDE LAMP AND LIGHT - ALL WIRED UP READY TO BE PLUGED IN. 70W"
But the title reads: "ROUND MH (HPS) DOWNLIGHT AND CONTROL GEAR 70W", MH and HPS are defiantly different, right?
[attachment=o246217]

Would it be ok for a closet grow? So far I have 120+W of CFLs, I thought it'd be enough for a single plant, but I have room for two now and am worried it won't be enough light. (Budget is tight so I can't just go out and buy a 250W HPS)

Thanks