To FIN or to LST

[isaacmstone]

I posted my thread under the incorrect heading. Please see indoor lighting and my question on FIN or LST.

thanks, issac stone

[purplekush989]

why not do both?

[isaacmstone]

lst'd the sativa today. will fim the indica in a few days.

thanks, issac stone

[CovertCarpenter]

...whether 'tis nobler in the mind, to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous toppings, or to take up a FIM and end them...

Seriously, I love 'em both. I use LST primarily to structure the plant, and FIMming whenever I have a particularly frisky bud that just needs to become two, or four or six...

LST should be started when they're really flexible, tho, and don't use the tie to pull 'em in--bend them manually with your fingers into position, and gently tie 'em there with string/whatever :)

[killfrenzi]

Why FIM an indica when they usually have short and bushy genetics, and sativas are tall and lanky. In my opinion you should LST the indica and FIM the sativa!

[isaacmstone]

I am seeing this stuff first hand. I LST'd them both and they really look slick. Main stem going to the side and around the bucket with the "side shoots" growing toward the light.

Earlier I had also tied down some of the sides shoots as to not get a "highest top" shooting toward the light all by itself. This was about a week or two ago. Each plant has anywhere from 6 to 10 "main stems" now. Plants are only a foot or so tall, maybe taller, but not by much.

I haven't really seen any results from the fim. Maybe I did it wrong. The main stem is "retarded"-set back in growth, with nothing really to show at the fimmed area regarding multiple stalks. I tried cutting 80% of the new growth at the top of the stem, but nothing really has transpired. I am vegging for 5 weeks,just started the 5th week, just so I could let the plant do something with the fim, recover from it, and to also let the "side shoot" main stems get a little taller.

I am using 2 gallon pots that have to be at least 10 inches in diameter. That thread by someone with the colored lines was very informative and I just kinda followed the sketch. I used my hands to help bend, but also used the wire to pull them. Just like Covert said, kinda sorta.

[drudown11]

I am seeing this stuff first hand. I LST'd them both and they really look slick. Main stem going to the side and around the bucket with the "side shoots" growing toward the light.

Earlier I had also tied down some of the sides shoots as to not get a "highest top" shooting toward the light all by itself. This was about a week or two ago. Each plant has anywhere from 6 to 10 "main stems" now. Plants are only a foot or so tall, maybe taller, but not by much.

I haven't really seen any results from the fim. Maybe I did it wrong. The main stem is "retarded"-set back in growth, with nothing really to show at the fimmed area regarding multiple stalks. I tried cutting 80% of the new growth at the top of the stem, but nothing really has transpired. I am vegging for 5 weeks,just started the 5th week, just so I could let the plant do something with the fim, recover from it, and to also let the "side shoot" main stems get a little taller.

I am using 2 gallon pots that have to be at least 10 inches in diameter. That thread by someone with the colored lines was very informative and I just kinda followed the sketch. I used my hands to help bend, but also used the wire to pull them. Just like Covert said, kinda sorta.


What i prefer to do is FIM, wait 1 week to lets branch growth pick up, and then LST. When you top or FIM it stress's the plant for a couple of weeks and growth slows dramatically as hormones are distributed toward your branches instead of your main top.

Dont worry too much about seeing no progress with the FIM. Its just stressed a little bit and growth will pick up soon. Keep an eye on it though, sometimes if I dont FIM correctly i get fans leaves that are 1/3 cut off that sprout up. The plant never really gets topped when this happens too, it just kind of grows a retarted small cola. If done correctly though, you can get multiple topsl.

In my experience, a combination of FIM and then LST right after is the way to go, that is if you can veg them a while

[killfrenzi]

So lemme get this right..... You are vegging for 5 weeks then your are going to flower? That hardly seems like enough time to let the plant that was topped re-coop? The LST'd plants prolly arent going to get any taller that 4.5 ft during flower.... If that, mos likely 3.5 ft, but w/ all the main stalks you shoud have a pretty decent yield.

You should post a few pics... Here are a few pics of my LST'd family


The last pic is kinda hard to tell, but there are 3 smaller plants that have been LST'd for about 3 weeks now. As well as the 2 larger plants

[isaacmstone]

my room is 8 feet high, the lights and hood will take about 2 feet and I have been running the light 2 feet from the top of the plants. That leaves me with about 4 feet left of grow room after all is said and done.

This is my second crop. First one was a disastor with spider mites and then leaving the dehumidifier on while drying the bud. Anyway that is history. We have a new dawn.

The plants are much bushier than my first crop because of the LST and have many more "main shoots". The indica is shorter than the sativa. The indicas are about 8-9 inches tall. Sativas about 10 to 12 inches.

I have this chart that made by some nutrient company that has a 4 week veg regime then a 9 week flower. But I think that it is set up for growing plants without the LST or FIM. I mean I could LST the plants for several weeks or more, tie down the side shoots when they get tall enough, and after the several weeks the plant still wouldn't be very tall(maybe only a few inches high, but with a LOT of potential regarding yield once I let the shoots grow to the light.

Anyway I will try to post photos, but then again, I will have to figure out how to do that.

Isaac Martin Stone

[CovertCarpenter]

...Doctor Rightkill, I presume :D

Your plants look lovely, Isaac. LST seems to be working for you, and they look like they're responding to it well. If you can, try to keep the canopy as even as possible, while still letting the personality of the plant show through :)

And yes, using LST does increase your veg time, but the upshot is that you have plants with multiple tops, and your overall yeild is maximized. I would keep 'em in veg until all of 'em have shown preflowers, and then switch the lights to 12/12. Be prepared for another growth explosion when you do this...

Make sure that you move a lot of air in your LST wonderland, though, as too much jungle can lead to babies being cooked. But keep 'em watered, and this is much less of a concern... Don't ask me how I know this :(

I concur on the FIMming patience thing, too. Sometimes you don't necessarily get the four or six tops thing, you just get a bushy motha of a cola. This is Not a Bad Thing. And yes, it does stress the plant a bit, but Sup3rThr!v3 can be your best friend while in veg...

I also admire your attitude towards your first 'learning experience'. Part of the reason that I haven't quite yet updated me own logs is that I've had some 'learning experiences' of my own in the past month... :cool:

Keep up the great work!

[isaacmstone]

belong to Dr. Kill.

I do have good air circulation. Water about every third day, sometimes every fourth depending on how heavy the pots feel. I also stick my finger in the soil down a couple of knuckles just to see what "dampness may be down below".

I am gonna have to look up "preflowers" on the board. Reading all this stuff takes time, but it is well worth it. I have found that by researching a specific subject that I inadvertanly come across something else which more than likely will be of benefit to me.

Issac Stone

[isaacmstone]

of what the plants look like now. sideview and top. Just did a little trimming yesterday to open the inner stalks to the light, kinda. Sativa is about a foot high, the indica maybe 8 or 9inches. Started from clones. Now in tail end of 5th week of veg.

I took off some of the tie downs about a week ago just to see what would happen. Nothing really, the stalks stayed in the same position kinda. Moved and retied some yesterday to keep them from overlapping. Not a lot, cause they are already trained so to speak.

[dooobster]

No need to go look up "preflowers", unless you just want to see the difference between a female preflower and a male one. They're pretty easy to distinguish from each other if you have one of those illuminated magnification devices from Radio Shack. Pretty simple though... The female pre will look just like a tiny calyx, and if you look real close you'll see tiny pistils poking out of the top of it. The male pre will look like a tiny little crab claw, and it will gradually begin to resemble what it is, a little male flower/ pollen sac.

These preflowers will usually begin to appear somewhere around the 4-5 week old mark, and from my own experience they generally show themselves at the 2nd or 3rd node down from the main top, where the stem tissue is still soft and hasn't begun to turn "woody".

All in all, you're doing a fine job, and your plants are looking very good. Just try to resist the urge to "over-love" them... Give em a break and let them do what they do...

Peace - dooobs