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F L E S H
04-12-2005, 02:43 PM
The Crusaders

Christian evangelicals are plotting to remake America in their own image

By BOB MOSER
Rolling Stone

It's February, and 900 of America's staunchest Christian fundamentalists have gathered in Fort Lauderdale to look back on what they accomplished in last year's election -- and to plan what's next. As they assemble in the vast sanctuary of Coral Ridge Presbyterian, with all fifty state flags dangling from the rafters, three stadium-size video screens flash the name of the conference: Reclaiming America for Christ. These are the evangelical activists behind the nation's most effective political machine -- one that brought more than 4 million new Christian voters to the polls last November, sending George W. Bush back to the White House and thirty-two new pro-lifers to Congress. But despite their unprecedented power, fundamentalists still see themselves as a persecuted minority, waging a holy war against the godless forces of secularism. To rouse themselves, they kick off the festivities with "Soldiers of the Cross, Arise," the bloodthirstiest tune in all of Christendom: "Seize your armor, gird it on/Now the battle will be won/Soon, your enemies all slain/Crowns of glory you shall gain."
Meet the Dominionists -- biblical literalists who believe God has called them to take over the U.S. government. As the far-right wing of the evangelical movement, Dominionists are pressing an agenda that makes Newt Gingrich's Contract With America look like the Communist Manifesto. They want to rewrite schoolbooks to reflect a Christian version of American history, pack the nation's courts with judges who follow Old Testament law, post the Ten Commandments in every courthouse and make it a felony for gay men to have sex and women to have abortions. In Florida, when the courts ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube removed, it was the Dominionists who organized round-the-clock protests and issued a fiery call for Gov. Jeb Bush to defy the law and take Schiavo into state custody. Their ultimate goal is to plant the seeds of a "faith-based" government that will endure far longer than Bush's presidency -- all the way until Jesus comes back.

"Most people hear them talk about a 'Christian nation' and think, 'Well, that sounds like a good, moral thing,' says the Rev. Mel White, who ghostwrote Jerry Falwell's autobiography before breaking with the evangelical movement. "What they don't know -- what even most conservative Christians who voted for Bush don't know -- is that 'Christian nation' means something else entirely to these Dominionist leaders. This movement is no more about following the example of Christ than Bush's Clean Water Act is about clean water."

The godfather of the Dominionists is D. James Kennedy, the most influential evangelical you've never heard of. A former Arthur Murray dance instructor, he launched his Florida ministry in 1959, when most evangelicals still followed Billy Graham's gospel of nonpartisan soul-saving. Kennedy built Coral Ridge Ministries into a $37-million-a-year empire, with a TV-and-radio audience of 3 million, by preaching that it was time to save America -- not soul by soul but election by election. After helping found the Moral Majority in 1979, Kennedy became a five-star general in the Christian army. Bush sought his blessing before running for president -- and continues to consult top Dominionists on matters of federal policy.

"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost," Kennedy says. "As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in short, over every aspect and institution of human society."

At Reclaiming America, most of the conference is taken up by grassroots training sessions that supply ministers, retirees and devout churchgoers with "The Facts of Stem-Cell Research" or "Practical Steps to Impact Your Community with America's Historical Judeo-Christian Heritage." "We're going to turn you into an army of one," Gary Cass, executive director of Reclaiming America, promises activists at one workshop held in Evangalism Explosion Hall. The Dominionists also attend speeches by supporters like Rep. Katherine Harris of Florida, who urges them to "win back America for God." In their spare time, conference-goers buy books about a God-devised health program called the Maker's Diet or meet with a financial adviser who offers a "biblically sound investment plan."

To implement their sweeping agenda, the Dominionists are working to remake the federal courts in God's image. In their view, the Founding Fathers never intended to erect a barrier between politics and religion. "The First Amendment does not say there should be a separation of church and state," declares Alan Sears, president and CEO of the Alliance Defense Fund, a team of 750 attorneys trained by the Dominionists to fight abortion and gay marriage. Sears argues that the constitutional guarantee against state-sponsored religion is actually designed to "shield" the church from federal interference -- allowing Christians to take their rightful place at the head of the government. "We have a right, indeed an obligation, to govern," says David Limbaugh, brother of Rush and author of Persecution: How Liberals Are Waging War Against Christianity. Nothing gets the Dominionists to their feet faster than ringing condemnations of judicial tyranny. "Activist judges have systematically deconstructed the Constitution," roars Rick Scarborough, author of Mixing Church and State. "A God-free society is their goal!"

Activist judges, of course, are precisely what the Dominionists want. Their model is Roy Moore, the former Alabama chief justice who installed a 5,300-pound granite memorial to the Ten Commandments, complete with an open Bible carved in its top, in the state judicial building. At Reclaiming America, Roy's Rock sits out front, fresh off a tour of twenty-one states, perched on the flag-festooned flatbed of a diesel truck, a potent symbol of the "faith-based" justice the Dominionists are bent on imposing. Activists at the conference pose for photographs beside the rock and have circulated a petition urging President Bush to appoint Moore -- who once penned an opinion calling for the state to execute "practicing homosexuals" -- to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"The other side knows we've got strongholds in the executive and legislative branches," Cass tells the troops. "If we start winning the judiciary, their power base is going to be eroded."

To pack the courts with fundamentalists like Moore, Dominionist leaders are planning a massive media blitz. They're also pressuring Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist -- an ally who's courting support for his presidential bid -- to halt the long-standing use of filibusters to hold up judicial nominations. An anti-filibuster petition circulating at the conference blasts Democrats for their "outrageous stonewalling of appointments" -- even though Congress has approved more nominees of Bush than of any president since Jimmy Carter.

It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech. He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that envisions a future of "clone plantations, child sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."

The Dominionists are also stepping up efforts to turn public schools into forums for evangelism. In a landmark case, the Alliance Defense Fund is suing a California school district that threatened to dismiss a born-again teacher who was evangelizing fifth-graders. In the conference's opening ceremony, the Dominionists recite an oath they dream of hearing in every classroom: "I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the Savior for whose kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe."

Cass urges conference-goers to stack school boards with Dominionists. "The most humble Christian is more qualified for office than the best-educated pagan," says Cass, an anti-abortion activist who led a takeover of his school district's board in San Diego. "We built quite a little grass-roots machine out there. Now it's my burden to multiply that success all across America."

Cass points to the Rev. Gary Beeler, a Baptist minister from Tennessee who got permission for thousands of students to skip class and attend weeklong events that he calls "old-time revivals, with preaching and singing and soul-saving and the whole nine yards." Now, with support from Kennedy, Beeler is selling his house and buying a mobile home to spread his crusade nationwide. "It's not exactly what I planned to do with my retirement," he says. "But it's what God told me to do."

Cass also presents another small-town activist, Kevin McCoy, with a Salt and Light Award for leading a successful campaign to shut down an anti-bullying program in West Virginia schools. McCoy, a soft-spoken, prematurely gray postal worker, fought to end the program because it taught tolerance for gay people -- and thus, in his view, constituted a "thinly disguised effort to promote the homosexual agenda." "What America needs," Cass tells the faithful, "is more Kevin McCoys."

While the dominionists rely on grass-roots activists to fight their battles, they are backed by some of America's richest entrepreneurs. Amway founder Rich DeVos, a Kennedy ally who's the leading Republican contender for governor of Michigan, has tossed more than $5 million into the collection plate. Jean Case, wife of former AOL chief Steve Case -- whose fortune was made largely on sex-chat rooms -- has donated $8 million. And Tom Monaghan, founder of Domino's Pizza, is a major source of cash for Focus on the Family, a megaministry working with Kennedy to eliminate all public schools.

The one-two punch of militant activists and big money has helped make the Dominionists a force in Washington, where a growing number of congressmen owe their elections to the machine. Kennedy has also created the Center for Christian Statesmanship, which trains elected officials to "more effectively share their faith in the public arena." Speaking to the group, House Majority Whip Tom DeLay -- a winner of Kennedy's Distinguished Christian Statesman Award -- called Bush's faith-based initiatives "a great opportunity to bring God back into the public institutions of our country."

The most vivid proof of the Christianizing of Capitol Hill comes at the final session of Reclaiming America. Rep. Walter Jones, a lanky congressman from North Carolina, gives a fire-and-brimstone speech that would have gotten him laughed out of Washington thirty years ago. In today's climate, however, he's got a chance of passing his pet project, the Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act, which would permit ministers to endorse political candidates from their pulpits, effectively converting their tax-exempt churches into Republican campaign headquarters.

"America is under assault!" Jones thunders as his aides dash around the sanctuary snapping PR photos. "Everyone in America has the right to speak freely, except for those standing in the pulpits of our churches!" The amen chorus reaches a fever pitch. Hands fly heavenward. It's one thing to hear such words from Dominionist leaders -- but to this crowd, there's nothing more thrilling than getting the gospel from a U.S. congressman. "You cannot have a strong nation that does not follow God," Jones preaches, working up to a climactic, passionate plea for a biblical republic. "God, please -- God, please -- God, please -- save America!"


(Posted Apr 07, 2005)

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 02:52 PM
why do these people scare you sooooooooooo much??they don't really have as much power as people think.it wasnt a suprise this was written in rolling stone wich has tried to enter the political scene with their overwhelming left-wing information.i do agree that these people are extreme but trying to demonize them for their religous beliefs is bizarre and wrong.they are just on the opposite side of the road.they are the move-on.org's of the right.hillary has to make the moveon idiots think she is with them while republican have to keep evangelicals thinking they are fully with them.

weirdo79
04-12-2005, 03:01 PM
They definitely dont scare me , they make me laugh with all their condemning and damning to hell, It sends me into fits of giggles :)

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 03:05 PM
for real,THEY ARE RELIGOUS!!WHO CARES??why do some try to make them evil??they dont have much REAL power!!!

F L E S H
04-12-2005, 03:30 PM
But they DO have real power. GEORGE FUCKIN' BUSH is one of them, as are most of the people in his cabinet, and most of the people he appoints to any sort of position of power.

I do not want religion to influence the way my country is run, under any circumstances.

Amsterdam, if you keep on thinking that it doesn't matter, they don't count, then why are schools in the south of the US only teaching 'creationism' in biology classes? Why is it still illegal for gays to marry in most places? Why must a woman fear for her life if she has to visit an abortion clinic? Why all that recent crap about Schiavo? They have power, all the way to the top, and very slowly and gradually they are taking over your government.

It's only a matter of time before they start hunting withces and burning them at the stake.

I know you're not one of those people, Amsterdam, but you have to admit that they exist, and their power is increasing very gradually. It's only a matter of time before they completely take over. And when they do, God help us all... (oh the irony)

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 03:44 PM
W is religous,so what?does a person being religous make him or her a bad person.it's seems so many people have been suckered into believing that W really is an idiot.they have missed the boat.W's close cabinet is NOT super religous.sure there are a few neo-cons but they don't make him make any choices.they are advisors and nothing more.


i went to school in the south for 20 years and i learned both sides in biology class.don't believe everything you read in canadas "progressive"media.that is bull-shit.

gay marriage is illegal because an overwhelming majority of people in this country disagree with it.it lost on every ballot including Oregon.

as with witch hunts,get a grip.

"those people" wich you group together are NOT taking over my country."THOSE PEOPLE"?????whats that all about?that sounds like what people who try not to sound rascist talk about minorities to me.

F L E S H
04-12-2005, 04:33 PM
you learned both sides in biology? So you think you're better off? When it comes to biology, there are NO 2 ways about it.

I call them 'those people' because I have no respect for them. There ya go, I said it. I hate people who want to use religion to govern. I hate any kind of theocracy. I genuinely hate the principles of a 'Christian Nation' no matter who claims it, as I hate Islamic fundamentalists, Jewish fundamentalists, etc.

There is NO place for religion whatsoever in any government. Your founding fathers knew it, but the rest seem to have forgotten it over the years.

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 04:36 PM
enough said.

F L E S H
04-12-2005, 04:38 PM
enough said.
? :confused:

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 04:40 PM
this nation was founded on religous beliefs.i don't think they should be used to govern either.people can't rewrie history to their liking.like the religous or not,you should respect all men(except child molesters)

F L E S H
04-12-2005, 04:53 PM
Your country was NOT founded on religious beliefs, and anyone who tells you so is lying. The founding fathers are a product of the Enlightenment, a strongly anti-religious (or anti-organized-religion) movement which directly fought against a king's "God given right" to rule. You see, kings used to justify their rule on them being chosen by God to be king. French (Oh no!) philosophers were completely against this idea and realized that God has nothing to do with effective government of any country.

The founding fathers are simply the first to apply French Enlightenment philosophy in a practical setting, and the French followed soon after (1789). Sure, they use "religious" languae sometimes in their documents, but that was simply the language of official documents at the time.

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 04:58 PM
then why did they all attend church?if you really believe that the united states was not founded on any religous beliefs you are wrong.im not saying they wrote up our govt. with religon but they were for sure god fearing people

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 05:03 PM
could care less about the french,world superpower wannabe's.

F L E S H
04-12-2005, 05:06 PM
I think you're wrong. I don't know whether they really went to Church or not, but that doesn't mean anything. Enlightenment thinkers were against all organized religions, no matter what they were. They were, in fact, Deists. It is a belief system where they believed ina supreme being, a creator, a deity, who created the Universe and set things in motion, and subsequently left us to our devices. That is the religion of the Enlightenment, that is the religion of your fouding fathers. Here are some interesting quotes, even though I admit they could be taken out of context (my favorite is from the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams :D):

"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble." - Benjamin Franklin (Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94.)

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

Every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." - George Washington (Letter to the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789)

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)

"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780;)

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)

Also see Treaty of Tripoli

"As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of government to protect all conscientious protesters thereof, and I know of no other business government has to do therewith." - Thomas Paine (Common Sense, 1776.)

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations." - Patrick Henry

"That religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience." - Patrick Henry (Virginia Bill of Rights, June 12, 1776.)

F L E S H
04-12-2005, 05:08 PM
could care less about the french,world superpower wannabe's.
Could care less about the French? Your entire country owes its existence to the French, whether you want to admit it or not. They gave you the Constitution, they helped you fight against the British.

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 05:09 PM
that's my point.they were religous,but like anyone else they question religon too.they looked at both sides.

F L E S H
04-12-2005, 05:11 PM
that's my point.they were religous,but like anyone else they question religon too.they looked at both sides.
No!! They weren't religious the way people are religious today. Read the damn quotes.

amsterdam
04-12-2005, 05:13 PM
i did.religous.what "people are you talking about?they sound like i think.

Mojavpa
04-13-2005, 02:58 AM
The Christian Right IS a formidable force in politics today. Its hard to see that if you live in New York or San francisco but the rest of the country goes to church evey week where their pastor tells them who to vote for. If so many people in the US werent Christian do you really think gay marriage or abortion would even be an issue? If there was no passage in the Bible about homosexuality being evil, then the argument against gay marriage would crumble because there are no other convincing reasons anyone can come up with to deny people who pay taxes everyday the right to marry. And Watch CNN or FOX news and you can see that atheists are never represented. When Larry King invites a "religious" panel to discuss some social issue, I never see an atheist discuss his take on it.

The sad thing is that many of these "Christians" who care more aout terri Shiavo and fetuses than about the Iraqi children who die everyday or the AIDS crisis actually think George Bush gives a rats ass about them. There is only thing on his mind: Power and greed. You can see this in the the lead up before the election; he seemed so intent on ending gay marriage. Now that he's elected he hardly says anything about it. He just needed the Christian vote to win, and now he can continue his imperialist agenda. Sometimes I pity stupid Christians for thinking that George Bush spends his time thinking about how all the fetuses are "dying". But then I think about how repulsive the American brand of Christianity is, and I cant wait for the revolution to start. :)

amsterdam
04-13-2005, 01:35 PM
i have never heard my priest say anything about who to vote for?do you live in new york.W has donated more money to aids research and prevention in africa than anyone before him,anyone.maybe he didnt use it like maybe you would have but thats a personal problem.

Euphoric
04-19-2005, 01:17 PM
yikes..good thing christianity is on its way down huh?

amsterdam
04-19-2005, 01:40 PM
you should look again at that.

Torog
04-19-2005, 03:13 PM
yikes..good thing christianity is on its way down huh?
Howdy Euphoric,

Yup..it's a real shame..Christianity and Christians,are under attack from all sides..too bad folks like you,are supporting the rise of a religion,based on terrorism and jihad. The one true peaceful religion,is being made out as the bad guys,and the false path of Islam,is being made out as the good guys,simply because they're attacking the US.

Have a good one ....

Nullific
04-19-2005, 03:15 PM
W has donated more money to aids research and prevention in africa than anyone before him,anyone.maybe he didnt use it like maybe you would have but thats a personal problem. A third of that money is spent on faith-based abstinence-promotion organizations.

PEPFAR was smaller in its ambitions â?? only 15 countries were targeted â?? but much better funded, with $15 billion promised over five years. The Global Fund's biggest donor had proven itself capable of promising huge sums of money, but they would not be going into the Global Fund. Tobias tried to stem the ensuing wave of criticism by claiming that the organizations could work together. But it soon became clear that they had fundamentally different missions. PEPFAR enthusiastically endorses the so-called "ABC" approach â?? Abstinence, Be Faithful, and Condoms. The program gave President Bush an opportunity to scale up from his $10 million abstinence crusade in Texas (where there is no evidence it worked) to a billion-dollar version in Africa (where there is new evidence it's not helping.) Other republicans are working to stop funding to clean needle exchange programs.
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/21414/

"I believe that God wants me to be president."
--According to Richard Land, as quoted in "Understanding the President and his God"

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."
--------George W. Bush to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas
The same moral tradition that defines marriage also teaches that each individual has dignity and value in God's sight.
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator.
-- During his first trip to Washington as President-Elect, Washington, DC, Dec 18, 2000
"I wouldn't pick a judge who said that the Pledge of Allegiance couldn't be said in a school because it had the words 'under God'' in it. I think that's an example of a judge allowing personal opinion to enter into the decision-making process, as opposed to strict interpretation of the Constitution."
--Second Presidential Debate, St. Louis, October 8, 2004
Thou shalt not kill" is pretty universal. (School) districts ought to be allowed to post the Ten Commandments, no matter what a person's religion is.
-- GOP Debate in Johnston, Iowa, Jan. 16, 2000
I appreciate that question because I, in the state of Texas, had heard a lot of discussion about a faith-based initiative eroding the important bridge between church and state.
-- Speaking to reporters, Jan. 29, 2001

Nullific
04-19-2005, 03:24 PM
Yup..it's a real shame..Christianity and Christians,are under attack from all sides..too bad folks like you,are supporting the rise of a religion,based on terrorism and jihad. The one true peaceful religion,is being made out as the bad guys,and the false path of Islam,is being made out as the good guys,simply because they're attacking the US.That is exactly it, Torog you know I respect you but god damnit look at some of the shit you say. You are saying that Xtianity is "the one true peaceful religion", despite the crusades, witch burnings, sexism, while your next statement about "the false path of islam" shows your intolerance. Not only this, you imply that anybody who isn't a christian fundamentalist is instead in support of these muslim extremists. Not to mention, you again are making generalizations about muslims and non-christians despite the numerous times you have been shown this and the numerous times you have come back saying you hope you didn't offend anybody.

amsterdam
04-19-2005, 03:26 PM
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1W HO GIVES A SHIT IF THE GUY IS RELIGOUS?????????????????????????????????????????? ???AND AIDS INFECTION IN ALGERIA IS WAY DOWN.JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nullific
04-19-2005, 03:51 PM
Being religious is one thing, saying that God directs your actions, God should be in schools and God and state should be connected is quite another.

AIDS INFECTION IN ALGERIA IS WAY DOWN. Is it?
Im looking for figures for Algeria and see this:
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate: 0.07% (1999 est.) (http://www.worldpress.org/profiles/algeria.cfm)
Adult HIV prevalence (%), 2003 (http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/global?page=cr06-ag-00): 0.1

amsterdam
04-19-2005, 04:05 PM
goes down every year.he talks about god alot,and prays for direction?big deal?

Nullific
04-19-2005, 04:52 PM
.07 to .1 is an increase, not a decrease. 2003 was the most recent statistic I found.

Do you know what the Constitution Restoration Act of 2005 is?
Read it yourself, it isn't very long.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.520:

F L E S H
04-19-2005, 05:09 PM
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1W HO GIVES A SHIT IF THE GUY IS RELIGOUS?????????????????????????????????????????? ???AND AIDS INFECTION IN ALGERIA IS WAY DOWN.JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Goddamn it, wake up and smell the coffee!

It doesn't make a difference if the man is religious but keeps his convictions to himself.

It makes a fucking huge difference if the man governs according to his religion, in a country which supposedly 'prides' itself in its religious tolerance and separation of church and state. Don't you get it? Not everyone is a born again Christian, and born again Christians are notorious for shoving their faith down other people's throats.

There are millions of Buddhists, Muslims, atheists, Catholics, agnostics who don't share Dubya's views.

RELIGION MUST BE KEPT OUT F POLITICS.

amsterdam
04-19-2005, 05:32 PM
lol

Funken Monken
04-19-2005, 05:40 PM
come on guys, you are dealing with Amsterdam here! You know, will mis-quote you to get his own way, will ignore your facts and postings, write-off anyhing thing you say because he's not been taught it....

I find its best to just give him a pat on the head and give him a cookie, tends to keep him chipper, doesn't it mate! :)

Euphoric
04-19-2005, 09:34 PM
Howdy Euphoric,

Yup..it's a real shame..Christianity and Christians,are under attack from all sides..too bad folks like you,are supporting the rise of a religion,based on terrorism and jihad. The one true peaceful religion,is being made out as the bad guys,and the false path of Islam,is being made out as the good guys,simply because they're attacking the US.

Have a good one ....

HAHAHAHAHA what the hell..i dont support islam. If peaceful means building bombs and droppin em on kids then yes you are correct sir :D

amsterdam
04-20-2005, 01:05 PM
come on guys, you are dealing with Amsterdam here! You know, will mis-quote you to get his own way, will ignore your facts and postings, write-off anyhing thing you say because he's not been taught it....

I find its best to just give him a pat on the head and give him a cookie, tends to keep him chipper, doesn't it mate! :)


or do you mean that i point out the idiocy of most of your comments??what the hell do you mean i havent been taught it.just because you get called on half the retarded ass shit you post dosent make me the bad guy.

F L E S H
04-20-2005, 02:08 PM
what doesn't make sense about what I say? Only when it's convenient for you, it doesn't make sense.

amsterdam
04-20-2005, 02:18 PM
bleeding heart all about feelings

Nateon
04-20-2005, 02:19 PM
I wouldn't want religion to influence politics and law either man. It would be sad if they replace Evolution with Creationalism because when my kids get into highschool, I don't want them learning bullshit

amsterdam
04-20-2005, 02:22 PM
send your kids to private school.

Nullific
04-20-2005, 02:27 PM
I can recognize when people are trying to "point out idiocy" in others comments, it doesn't appear to me that you are.
You keep asking "Who cares if they are religious, Why does it matter if Bush is religious?"
The answer is because religion has no place in a supposed "free country" like the united states. You say its not happening, though it is evident by abstinence-promoting drug and sex programs that don't work, Bush wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marraiges, he says that God 'wanted him' to be president.
You claim "AIDS INFECTION IN ALGERIA IS WAY DOWN" yet statistics from 1999 to 2003 show it has increased.

Did you read the Constitution Restoration Act?


bleeding heart all about feelings
Ohh a personal attack, Torog style.

amsterdam
04-20-2005, 02:36 PM
i believe god wanted me to graduate college and get my good job?so what?going to schooli in Texas for 16 years let me tell ya we got condoms in school and were taught abstinence.for me,i dont see these huge changes alot of hysterical people see.life is good and has been good to me.i made every mistake a young kid makes.i spent 3 months in jail,bootcamp,had a problem with cocaine in highschool,dropped outta school(biggest regret)and screwed around doing nothing for two years overseas.

yet i still had the chance to make a success of myself when i grew up.the chances this great country gives people like me and you are unlimited.you just have to work hard.

bleeding heart all about feelings=it's true.

Neojedi
04-20-2005, 07:39 PM
Why would you even give this guy the time of day? I live in Michigan my friend and DeVos is not the leading contender,...."ally of Kennedy and leading republican",.... what is this an oxymoron?I think you'd spend your time better reading the Constitution of our country rather than regergitating the crap your leftist media spews. And yes, I've heard your rhetoric for years, from more learned folks than you, but can you give me one example of a successful Socialist country, lol.

amsterdam
04-20-2005, 08:03 PM
well put.

Funken Monken
04-20-2005, 08:05 PM
or do you mean that i point out the idiocy of most of your comments??what the hell do you mean i havent been taught it.just because you get called on half the retarded ass shit you post dosent make me the bad guy.

You've not 'called me' as you so eloquently put it on a single thing. Thats just it, I wish you would (could even) in a watertight, backed up and considerd fasion, without resorting to rhetoric, insults and inproper sound bites.
I await a convincing argument from you on any of your subject, not the usual...well, its just a rant really isn't it? Come on, do better than that. Until then, have a cookie.

amsterdam
04-21-2005, 01:41 PM
You've not 'called me' as you so eloquently put it on a single thing. Thats just it, I wish you would (could even) in a watertight, backed up and considerd fasion, without resorting to rhetoric, insults and inproper sound bites.
I await a convincing argument from you on any of your subject, not the usual...well, its just a rant really isn't it? Come on, do better than that. Until then, have a cookie.


whatever helps you sleep at night. :cool:

Torog
04-21-2005, 02:17 PM
That is exactly it, Torog you know I respect you but[ xxx xxxxx] look at some of the sh*t you say. You are saying that Xtianity is "the one true peaceful religion", despite the crusades, witch burnings, sexism, while your next statement about "the false path of islam" shows your intolerance. Not only this, you imply that anybody who isn't a christian fundamentalist is instead in support of these muslim extremists. Not to mention, you again are making generalizations about muslims and non-christians despite the numerous times you have been shown this and the numerous times you have come back saying you hope you didn't offend anybody.
Howdy Nullific,

Well I respect you too Nullific..however,this ain't medievil times,it's the 21st century,and it's muslims(and the hard-line,commie chinese) who're torturing,murdering,raping and enslaving,my Christian brothers and sisters,in Christ..because they follow the commandments of a terrorist pedophile,mohammed,who ordered muslims to do such,to Christians and Jews and infidels. Until Islam,recognizes Jesus Christ as the Son of God..and not some kind of a mortal prophet..they will be on a false path.

Have a good one....

F L E S H
04-22-2005, 01:34 AM
Howdy Nullific,

Well I respect you too Nullific..however,this ain't medievil times,it's the 21st century,and it's muslims(and the hard-line,commie chinese) who're torturing,murdering,raping and enslaving,my Christian brothers and sisters,in Christ..because they follow the commandments of a terrorist pedophile,mohammed,who ordered muslims to do such,to Christians and Jews and infidels. Until Islam,recognizes Jesus Christ as the Son of God..and not some kind of a mortal prophet..they will be on a false path.

Have a good one....
My god... and they ban Penguin for posting about munchies. This is disgusting.

Torog
04-22-2005, 02:45 PM
My god... and they ban Penguin for posting about munchies. This is disgusting.
Howdy FLESH,

I agree,it's disgusting..how it's become politically correct,to bash and persecute,Christians and Christianity,this persecution,is expected however,and I will gladly bear it,for Christ. As your signature says.."it's in Revelations",the attack from all quarters,was foretold in the Book of Revelations.

I'm not angry at you,you are merely fulfilling the role of the path that you have chosen..I pray that God will soften your heart,and fill it with hope,joy,peace,wisdom,compassion and understanding..as I pray for thus,for myself and others.

Have a good one....

amsterdam
04-22-2005, 02:52 PM
YOUR A DEEP GUY TOROG!!how's my homeland in Texas?

Torog
04-22-2005, 03:12 PM
YOUR A DEEP GUY TOROG!!how's my homeland in Texas?
Howdy amsterdam,

Thanx..I think..lol. Spring is in full swing here..sunshine today..marble-sized hail,yesterday..lol. Fortunately,the hail wasn't so bad that it stripped the leaves from the tree's. Just a gentle rain,over my outdoor darlins..no hail in that location..Praise the Lord ! I hope that you can git back to God's country soon and recharge yer batteries..I know what it's like..to be far from Texas..and it ain't much fun....

Have a good one ! :D

Nullific
04-22-2005, 03:24 PM
Im not saying "OMG OMG THE CHRISTIANS THEY"RE TAKING OVER OMGOMGTHEYMUSTBEKILLED" (Actually replace 'Christians' with 'Muslims' and it sounds like what Torog is trying to say)
I am saying that in a 'democracy' such as the United States where everyone bitches about political and media corruption (but does nothing about it) and where there are two mainstream political parties that like to throw personal attacks at one another, and we have a president using words like 'family values' and appeasing to the moral majority...well we might want to be a little careful about what we let these people do.
I suppose if you don't think there is any reason to worry whatsoever you're in full support of the Constitution Restoration Act?
Im sure Torog is.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Supreme Court shall not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or otherwise, any matter to the extent that relief is sought against an entity of Federal, State, or local government, or against an officer or agent of Federal, State, or local government (whether or not acting in official or personal capacity), concerning that entity's, officer's, or agent's acknowledgment of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.

amsterdam
04-22-2005, 03:31 PM
i wasn't being a smart ass,you are deep.i do miss the homeland alot.my wife dosen't understand why i have so much Texas pride(flag,magnets,etc.)we are coming to houston for Thanksgiving so i can show my wife what a deep fried turkey is all about,and shiner bach beer too!soooooooooooo,as Davy Crockett said

"you may all go to hell,
and i will go to Texas!"

Nullific
04-22-2005, 03:38 PM
Well I respect you too Nullific..however,this ain't medievil times,it's the 21st century,and it's muslims(and the hard-line,commie chinese) who're torturing,murdering,raping and enslaving,my Christian brothers and sisters,in Christ..because they follow the commandments of a terrorist pedophile,mohammed,who ordered muslims to do such,to Christians and Jews and infidels. Until Islam,recognizes Jesus Christ as the Son of God..and not some kind of a mortal prophet..they will be on a false path.

I agree,it's disgusting..how it's become politically correct,to bash and persecute,Christians and Christianity,this persecution,is expected however,and I will gladly bear it,for Christ. As your signature says.."it's in Revelations",the attack from all quarters,was foretold in the Book of Revelations.

I'm not angry at you,you are merely fulfilling the role of the path that you have chosen..I pray that God will soften your heart,and fill it with hope,joy,peace,wisdom,compassion and understanding..as I pray for thus,for myself and others.
Ohh, my bad, my bad I get it, I see now its not okay to bash Christians but Muslims thats a differant thing since they havn't recognized Christ as their lord and savior, well alright.

Hell, I don't give a fuck about Jesus Christ either though and im certainly not "following the commandments of a terrorist pedophile", rather I think all organized religions and their gods are false because hell, history has shown us that all religions rise and fall like governments so why should I pay any heed to Jesus whilst ignoring Anubus and all them cooler looking gods?

Well, amsterdam, you're the one so against conspiracy and all that bullshit and think life is wonderful so do you agree all the muslims of the world have made it their mission to torture and kill our Christian brothers in an effort to wipe out christianity?

amsterdam
04-22-2005, 03:43 PM
Ohh, my bad, my bad I get it, I see now its not okay to bash Christians but Muslims thats a differant thing since they havn't recognized Christ as their lord and savior, well alright.

Hell, I don't give a fuck about Jesus Christ either though and im certainly not "following the commandments of a terrorist pedophile", rather I think all organized religions and their gods are false because hell, history has shown us that all religions rise and fall like governments so why should I pay any heed to Jesus whilst ignoring Anubus and all them cooler looking gods?

Well, amsterdam, you're the one so against conspiracy and all that bullshit and think life is wonderful so do you agree all the muslims of the world have made it their mission to torture and kill our Christian brothers in an effort to wipe out christianity?


oh god no!!most of 'em,not all!just kidding.i believe 95% of our muslim brothers are peace loving people who are our friends.just like in america there is that 5% of whack jobs who are out to kill people with some crazy thoughts about religon.

Torog
04-22-2005, 03:55 PM
i wasn't being a smart ass,you are deep.i do miss the homeland alot.my wife dosen't understand why i have so much Texas pride(flag,magnets,etc.)we are coming to houston for Thanksgiving so i can show my wife what a deep fried turkey is all about,and shiner bach beer too!soooooooooooo,as Davy Crockett said

"you may all go to hell,
and i will go to Texas!"
Howdy amsterdam,

Dang..I'm glad to hear that you'll be here for Thanksgiving,I ain't had any of that there deep-fried turkey yet,but I hear tell..it's pretty dang good ! As for Shiner Bock,I've had lot's of that ! Dang..I think I'll git some,next time I git some beer..I love the quote too..thanx !

Have a good one ! :D

amsterdam
04-22-2005, 03:58 PM
i have the magnet on our fridge.you have gotta try the turkey deep fried.soooooooooooooooooooooooooo good!

Euphoric
04-22-2005, 04:12 PM
send your kids to private school.
NOT PRIVATE SCHOOL NOOOOOOOOO :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

amsterdam
04-22-2005, 04:19 PM
NOT PRIVATE SCHOOL NOOOOOOOOO :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

with corporal punishment too!!!!kids 5-16 are soooooooooooo fucked up these days,no respect.they need to be taught a lesson. :D