Anyone switch from 1000 watt hps to LED yet?

[perpetr8r]

Was wondering if anyone from RI has made the move to LED. Interested in anyone that switched from 1000 watt HPS and what your results are in comparison.

Thanks.

[stra8outtaWeed]

im not in RI but i ran 2 1000w digitals with hort eyes and i have switched to all LED...i run 900w of LED in place of the HPS...and the best thing i have ever done. my meds are better and the power bill is less:jointsmile:

the bottom link is my LED GROW SHOW:smokin:

[WalterWile]

Seriously. LED?
No friend you cannot grow quality medicine with LED's Not yet anyway.
people will say 1000 watt of led is the same as 1000 watt hps or MH they are just ignorant. besides you will spend about 5 times as much in lamps to produce the same watts of Led light.

Never forget .When someone is obviously trying to sell you something their opinion is no longer an unbiased source.

[stra8outtaWeed]

hey Walter~before you speak you should look at my log...no mirrors it all the real deal....folks have been watching my grows for the past 2 months and i work for no one...i have enough money to last me a life time twice over...so before you come on with your 1 post you should read a little...it is uninformed people like you that think you know everything...the person asked a question and i answered....have you grown with shitty LED's? i did my research before i purchased and i did not buy everything at once...i started slowly with converting my veg side to beat heat issues i encountered with MH and summer...when i saw how well the plants grew i tested some in flower and found they performed quite nicely and i yarded out 2 1000w CAP Nextgen digital ballasts, used hortilux bulbs and a complete vented system...i got tired of high energy bills when i was running an AC all winter long to hold temps down when it was 20f outside...so your statement could not be farther from the truth. If i was out to sell folks i would be on every forum on the internet...i like this place and this is the only place i post my grow! peace out! :hippy:

[perpetr8r]

Thanks for the input, both of you :) If everyone agreed on everything, life would be boring. Str8, I have seen your grow log and it is quite impressive. Good work! My only concern is the density of your flowers and how far the LED light penetrates the canopy... the strain I grow for patients is very very leafy and I am currently netting 3 oz's of dried and cured buds per plant with the 2 1000 watt hortilux's. Money is not so much the issue for me but it would kill me to invest in the LED setup and end up shelving it because my yield was cut in half... With that said, I'm probably going to try and mirror your setup, can you post or message me with where you purchased and exactly what you purchased?? Much appreciated :)
peace

[stra8outtaWeed]

i bought the first ones off of ebay and eventually contacted the mfr and setup an account for me and some friends and it sort of snowballed and basically i get them and if anyone wants them i provide them for a fraction of what you will spend in a grow shop..its more of a hobby to me to help a fellow grower than to see them get hosed with A.inferior product B.too high of prices being charged at retail level. for example a grow shop near me sells the UFO for $400..i am like who would pay $400 for that POS..and they sell them...i know i would not be happy if paid that kind of money...so then it makes it very unaffordable and unattractive to try LED's...so my goal is to keep em affordable for all of us...i saw my same light on ebay selling at $659 the other day so if you would like more info just skype me or yahoo...i'll be happy to share info...but as i said above i work for no one and i love the quality of my meds since growing with LED's :jointsmile:

i will have some pics of the latest harvest this friday when i return stateside:D

i will also have one grow midstream at about 28days and a new tray starting with plants currently in veg...i will be doing a test run on House & Garden Van de Swaan nutrients as i have heard impressive things from others close to me with higher yields and healthier plants. So i wanted to give their fromula a run with the LED's...but it is very ignorant for Walter to sign in with 1 post telling me what i cannot do when he has no experience or lacks the insight to do some research of others like Dreaded Hermie shared in another thread about growers in Holland and Spain on European boards where tests have been done with 1000w of LED and 1000w of HID and the LED outproduced the HID...i get approx the same with less than 1/2 of the power...450w of LED per tray and 900w total in my flower room, let alone cost of cooling the heat created by 1000w HIDs...grow side has 350w of LED:smokin:

[bigsby]

Hey Perp, nice setup you have going there.

I'm 6 - 8 weeks from building my room and at this point I will likely shoot for the tail end of summer so I can avoid the heat issues and the vacation schedule. Since it's a new room and because I have the time and inclination to research (a lot), I too am considering LED. A 10% - 15% drop in yield is acceptable to me - if that's what it takes. No yield or anemic yields are not. I'm not growing to supplement my income but rather as a hobby, the occasional splif, and as a favor to a friend who has legitimate needs.

Here's my problem, it is very hard to find reliable grow logs demonstrating LEDs and of course there is the ever present trust issues given all the hype and obvious misinformation in so many forums elsewhere. (Note: I'm not taking a dig at anyone, so please no offense. I have no reason to doubt what I have seen here. My problem is that it is hard to find independent verification.) Add to that the kids who don't read and who think they can grow with a 15w LED together with a market flooded by cheap product in search of a quick buck and it is easy to see how discussion becomes so distorted. It doesn't help that some HID folks seem unable to engage in a rational discussion of this issue. It is worth noting that LED technology is changing by the hour. What you learned / observed 2 years ago does not carry the same weight today.

After a lot of reading and trolling through forums I am still not sure how to resolve my concerns. It is a good chunk of change to lay down. I have no problem it it works but would not be pleased if it didn't... That said, I have found the most useful and informed information in these forums. My read is that the technology is changing quite rapidly and that this will be the grow light of the future. I have no doubt about that. But is it there yet? I don't know. I want to believe - it would solve many issues with my setup - heat, venting, electric usage not to mention the unlikely but ever present fire hazard that the HID lamps represent. However, I may end up with an HPS if only because it is a proven product - know it will work.

So I'll be interested to follow your journey here. Perhaps I can add some info from time to time. Please do let me know which way you end up coming down on this and please share any independent research you come across, as will I.

Peace.

[stra8outtaWeed]

none taken bigs...stick around and pull up a chair...you can watch my grows from start to finish...i'm not going anywhere..other than back to work in the grow room putting out my meds.:jointsmile: 3 more days and i am stateside...counting the hours!:D

[bigsby]

Hope you had a successful trip. Safe travels home.

[khyberkitsune]

Seriously. LED?
No friend you cannot grow quality medicine with LED's Not yet anyway.
people will say 1000 watt of led is the same as 1000 watt hps or MH they are just ignorant. besides you will spend about 5 times as much in lamps to produce the same watts of Led light.

Never forget .When someone is obviously trying to sell you something their opinion is no longer an unbiased source.

The moment someone says something without providing something to back it up, their opinion is no longer unbiased, as well.

LEDs work just fine. There are tons of growlogs out there where first-timers pull awesome weight - icmag has one with a grower using 22w of LED inside a PC case and pulling 38 grams. If you go by the fallacious grams per watt measurement, that's WELL over 1 gram per watt. Most first-time HID growers couldn't manage that without HUGE lights and a vertical setup.

[cliffcliff]

first of all why would you want to pay five times more for the light then you have two. a 1000w hps runs the same electric as a 1000w led. think about it. if your cant afford to cool your room then you def cant afford those lights because thats the money you would be saving(just the power of the cooling system. the power company charges by the kilawot hour(1000w per hour) at about .29 cent on a huge sliding scale. they cant tell if it hps led a hair dryer washing machine etc.

now lets talk about all high times has to say is its controversial and no clear results. do you real think high times is going to right an article about how much they suck when thes at least 5 full page adversments on led. call them up and find out how much a hole page is. i bet about 10,000. they also sell enxite and penis enlargers and inlargment pills in there.

i might not be able to spell but i know the posts that are telling you leds are good are also selling them."come check out my web site) if i had to guess there using time laps photos. thats how they make robot chicken my advise dont get them. stick to what works

[irydyum]

If your resource for reliable info is a for profit recurring publication, i pity you.

PS, They also endorsed the aerogarden as a product of the year.

[redtails]

Another uninformed first poster...

If you read even a little about them, you don't need exact same wattages...LED's, the difference is that you save on power consumption, because you only use the light wavelengths that the plant uses. That means that 1000w HPS puts out the same amount of usable light as 300-400w LED. Same thing goes for lumens from what I've been reading, LEDs don't follow the 5000lm/sq ft rule.

Now I haven't used any yet, but by this weekend I should have some to try out. I find the investment to be about the same, actually a little less in my case, because of savings on cooling/ventilation! To cool my closet I no longer need a $200+ inline fan/blower and can use a $25 duct booster from Home Depot. That even makes using CO2 more in my reach...

And how come you can't notice the FACT that the bulbs last 10+ years(12hrs a day) as opposed to HPS lasting what, 6 months? Think about the savings on bulb replacements...

[irydyum]

i might not be able to spell but i know the posts that are telling you leds are good are also selling them."come check out my web site) if i had to guess there using time laps photos. thats how they make robot chicken my advise dont get them. stick to what works

This may be the single best thing i have ever read. Time lapse photography, what a gem:thumbsup:You figured all the LED supporters out, everyone gets together and shares their trick photography techniques to dupe you into believing LED's work.

Now what are we gonna do?

[stra8outtaWeed]

ok cliff just becasue you read High Times makes you the authority????

i have no website and i am paid by nobody but the dividends from my retirement account and Im 45 yrs old....i own my 3200 sq foot home free and clear...hmmm i guess i'm pretty stoopid then....i was injured with a spinal cord injury and am in great pain so i have no benchmark of how good it has made my meds or the difference????

you're nothing more than a troll trying to stir shit....you sign up to make one post and attack people because they answer a question....you think i spent 5x what HPS cost...if i did that do you think i would have the assets i do...come on!

get a life and go bother someone else because everyone here knows my grows are for real...how the hell can i manipulate things...i am in a fucking wheelchair for God's sake...you try doing what i do from a chair! then post your grows! :wtf:

[Weezard]

Science has found a cure for ignorance!
READ!

Relax my friends.:)
Dem boneheads wouldn't know what to do with your "goat":D

I'm not selling anyt'ing to anyone.
I'm just sad dat dem leds no work.:(:(:(

Oh! Wait!
[attachment=o241386]
[attachment=o241388]
[attachment=o241389]

Well whuddaya know?
I feel mo' :) now.

Aloha y'all
Jus' havin' a li'l fun here.;)
Wee Zard

Muahahahaha!

[khyberkitsune]

first of all why would you want to pay five times more for the light then you have two. a 1000w hps runs the same electric as a 1000w led. think about it. if your cant afford to cool your room then you def cant afford those lights because thats the money you would be saving(just the power of the cooling system. the power company charges by the kilawot hour(1000w per hour) at about .29 cent on a huge sliding scale. they cant tell if it hps led a hair dryer washing machine etc.

now lets talk about all high times has to say is its controversial and no clear results. do you real think high times is going to right an article about how much they suck when thes at least 5 full page adversments on led. call them up and find out how much a hole page is. i bet about 10,000. they also sell enxite and penis enlargers and inlargment pills in there.

i might not be able to spell but i know the posts that are telling you leds are good are also selling them."come check out my web site) if i had to guess there using time laps photos. thats how they make robot chicken my advise dont get them. stick to what works

LMAO.

Look who never went to college and learned optical physics or took plant biology.

Get a degree, then you can talk.

- Director of Research

[moody420]

Science has found a cure for ignorance!
READ!

Relax my friends.:)
Dem boneheads wouldn't know what to do with your "goat":D

I'm not selling anyt'ing to anyone.
I'm just sad dat dem leds no work.:(:(:(

Oh! Wait!
[attachment=o241386]
[attachment=o241388]
[attachment=o241389]

Well whuddaya know?
I feel mo' :) now.

Aloha y'all
Jus' havin' a li'l fun here.;)
Wee Zard

Muahahahaha!

weezard...you made me laugh! :D Your pics are so beautiful!

stra8....we all know you are legit...fuck the haters! Don't even get fired up...your knowledge has been welcomed by all here...:thumbsup:

...and to the douchy 1-poster....educate yourself a little before you open your mouth. You are trashing people who have been growing since before you were thought of (I'm assuming you are about 16 with that dumbass attitude). Some of us love this hobby and are very willing to try to look outside the box and find better options. LED's are here to stay....I'm in on this train and I can't wait to see the first ride! My first LED log coming soon! :jointsmile:

[moody420]

This may be the single best thing i have ever read. Time lapse photography, what a gem:thumbsup:You figured all the LED supporters out, everyone gets together and shares their trick photography techniques to dupe you into believing LED's work.

Now what are we gonna do?

Iry....I think your top signature is very appropriate to this situation! haha!

I'm starting my new LED grow this week and I need you to give me those trick photography tips! :D

[moody420]

my bad iry...your 2nd sig...funny shit! :jointsmile:

[khyberkitsune]

Iry....I think your top signature is very appropriate to this situation! haha!

I'm starting my new LED grow this week and I need you to give me those trick photography tips! :D

I have one of those trick photography shots in the making right now! Yup they'll love this hoax! ;) ;) ;)

Even animated for your pleasure! my 'one week of growth' shot.

[irydyum]

I dunno khyber, that looks awful robot chickenish to me:wtf::D

[khyberkitsune]

I dunno khyber, that looks awful robot chickenish to me:wtf::D

That's what happens when you don't have a box big enough to fit a camera in and you have to open the case every time and take a shot by hand!

[irydyum]

if i had to guess there using time laps photos. thats how they make robot chicken my advise dont get them.

Hope you took that how i meant it:thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

Hope you took that how i meant it:thumbsup:

I did :) I like to throw things WAY in the other direction suddenly.

[cliffcliff]

im 29 and im on this site because im looking up law in rode island and maine to open up a club. im from grass valley cali and its getting a little crazy in the sticks. ive already cought three felonys for growing, mostly over making butane hasch. though im still aloud to grow weed and now theres no limits, its not worth all the shootings home invasions and thefts because everyone knows all you need is a flight lesson over the hood and you know were all the grows are\.
now for the led you people said you get the same wether you use a 1000 watts of hps or a 1000w of led. fine. is someone going to tell me you getsing a pound and a half to two poiunds off a 300w led thats supposed to be the same as a 1000w hps. ive been growing for a long time and it did take me years to became good( i had to stop being lazy) wich is hard to do when you have an over paying job with minimal work.
id say one out of 6 grow im my neiberhood at least and led would spread like wildfire if it worked.

[bigsby]

cliffcliff - I'm a fence sitter at this point. Will be watching Moddy420's grow with interest. It sounds like you are a dedicated grower with experience. But it also sounds like you have not done your homework. LED is a changing technology. There is no doubt that it showed poor results in the beginning and the market if flooded with cheap crap that promises the moon and stars but doesn't deliver. But the tech is changing fast. Even if my yield is off by 15% I would use LED. Why? It eliminates so many issues - heat, venting, wiring, fans, etc. You mentioned flyovers in your neighborhood. I'm guessing they are using an infrared to identify heat signatures? You would be fine with LED. While I can setup a safe HID grow room, there is the ever present danger of fire. OK it's unlikely but shit happens and if it hits I lose my house, perhaps my family and insurance ain't going to cover that. When you do the math you realize that there are big savings on electric, bulbs, setup costs (if starting from scratch). Now there is also the question of what your goals are. I'm not growing for an audience. Just my own self indulgence and to benefit a friend with legitimate needs. That said, there is no reason why this couldn't be scaled up.

I am not sold but I am sure interested. While I do my research I'm not blowing people off. I'm trying to learn. People here will respect your difference of opinion and will walk through any valid questions that you post. Just ton down the hostility. No need for it.

[cliffcliff]

i dont see how it would eliminate venting and wiring even if your using co2. the roots need oxogen. i had a room i vented only the lights and user co2 moniter to keep it at 1000 ppm. i got a low yeild and was told you still need to bring in fresh oxgen 3 to 4 time a day while light are on and wond up with the biggest yeild ive gotten for this pain in the ass strain i was growing.

my questions would be

whats the half life of the bulbs?

can you replace the bulbs cheap when your crop starts to deminish or do you have to buy a new light?

if you can do you have to know how to sowder or do they pop right in?

[HavaTok]

Most of the specs from LED manufacturers sate that at 50,000 hours 70% light will still be emitted. By then you will probably want to move up to the newest hardware since it will have improved so much by then.

[bigsby]

Oh you definitely have to vent but you do not necessarily need a honking inline fan. If you don't have odor control issues (I do) or if you use an ozonator type odor control then you can use a small duct vent ($25).

The bulbs will last 7 - 10 years. You probably need to replace them by 7 but I imagine that the tech will have moved so much that you would probably upgrade sooner. Or just add arrays to your grow.

Some people build their own. I don't have the patience for that plus I hate getting shocked. I'm looking at pre-build racks designed for horticulture ops. Key seems to be wave length / spectrum. The crappy lights do not provide sufficient spectrum for flowering. You need a good percentage of the emitters putting out 660 nm which is in the red spectrum.

It is worth noting that you can not evaluate LEDs by looking at lumens. Plants don't care about lumens. They care about wavelength. So the HID lamp puts out a ton of light that the plants just can't see. So a lot of that light is wasted energy.

Good questions.

I'm not there yet but I'm getting closer. Moody - when you are you going to kick off your grow ;).

Peace.

[khyberkitsune]

"is someone going to tell me you getsing a pound and a half to two poiunds off a 300w led thats supposed to be the same as a 1000w hps."

Yes, people REGULARLY pull 2g/w from LED grows. That means 300w dropping 600 grams, that's a pound and a quarter EASY.

Pinstripe's 2nd try: PC case + 22W LED - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=146324) - 22 watts, 38 grams. That's 1.727272 g/w. Assuming yield scaled linearly with power increase, a 300w panel in that person's hands should yield around 518 grams of bud.

Maybe 5 years ago LED wasn't worth it. Unless you attend every JEDEC conference you're going to be sadly out of date on your LED information - we've been getting 200% yields using LEDs with ALL sorts of crops, from wheat to strawberries, for the past three years already.

You can't measure a half-life of a diode, as alloys can't reliably have a half-life determiniation. The half-life only applies to pure elements in the chemical sense. Now if you're talking about SERVICE MAINTENANCE LIFE, 24/7 operation gives you 5-7 years. 18/6 about 10 years. 12/12 will get you from 10-15 years of service, and that is all dependent upon temperature control and humidity control.

[bigsby]

cliffcliff can you share some of your learnings on the situation in RI. I'm curious as I have relatives there and could probably benefit.

[stra8outtaWeed]

the 1/2 life is 25,000 hours thats about 5 years of 12/12!

did you pay $90 fpr your HPS 1000w bulb and ballast?

5 X 90 is $450....according to your math thats what your lights cost!

x3 = S1350 for 3 lights one one tray!

if your read about 600 plus of my posts you would know that as it is stated in many places....but you pop off like you are the worlds authority...didn't expect to have it handed to ya did ya?

so making money makes a person lazy...well speak for yourself!

why did you not come on with a question if the first place instead of telling growers who are using LEDs to successfully flower and tell us what we cannot do and "time lapse photography"....dude you are barking up the wrong tree...some of these folks built there own lights...such as weezard...dreaded hermie...and one person you did not hear from was old mac...he's forgotten more than you'll ever know with your attitude in the beginnig! so you insult our intelligence! as i said do what i do from a chair an see how good you can do....you'd be stting in corner crying thinking your life is over....if money made you lazy then a personal challenge such as my spinal cord injury would be the end of someone like you with your dumb ass attitude!

now if you want to learn from all of us...we are more than happy to share how we got our results from growing with LED...do you think i yarded 2 1000 watt digitals and Hort eyes out from my room because i am not getting my stated results???

what do i stand to gain by lying??? in anything you do if you have no ethics or core values you will soon be found out and all will ignore you and tell you to go away....i value the friends i have made and will do anything to help them....you might ask a that question and see who chimes in?

so with all that said...i am growing with 900 watts af LED in my flower...less that 1/2 of the power i used previously and getting similar results to my HPS...if i was to put equal wattages over each tray i would still beat HPS as i have no heating issues and do not have to run and AC for cooling....yes LED's can be replaced if burnt out but usually it from hitting an exposed LED that causes it to go out not burn out..so you solder a new one in or bridge the gap with copper wire completeing the circuit for the rest to work!

the reason most say it does not work is because inferior systems have been used...today as bigsby stated earlier...info of just 2 years ago is obsolete as technology is changing rapidly! you are 29 which is still wet behind the ears...i don't care what the ratio of growers is in your neighbor hood is...facts are LEDs work and they are here to stay and they will only get better! mine are 3w diodes so have any of your expert growers used my light...its designed for commerciall greenhouses and to be hung 13 ft above the plants giving 100 sq feet of coverage....now i know it would never work in flower at that height but that should give you an idea of the power of LEDs and how far they have come...not insulting us and our intelligence. i have a Bachelor of science degreee in business and minor in geography so i can figure out what works and what doesnt...and if did not get my results i would not be here to share!

you do have some balls showing back up after getting blasted so hats off to for that!

if you want to learn more then be humble....people here will bend over backwards to anyone asking for help in a civilized manner!

peace!:hippy:

[khyberkitsune]

It is worth noting that you can not evaluate LEDs by looking at lumens. Plants don't care about lumens.

You can't rate any monochromatic light source by the lumen, since the lumen is weighted against 550-555nm wavelength light as emitted by a blackbody radiator. The best most horticultural lamp manufacturers will tell you is the watts per square meter output, not the umol output per square meter per second, which is what really matters.

[cliffcliff]

by say becoming more lazy i mean instead of changing the res we'll go skiing for a week when to get a good harvest you need to be there every other day at least

every one is pritty touchey. its more of an east coast thing i guess. i smoke hell of weed and never get affented , lifes to short bud.

as far as finding out how to open a club in ri or maine im still looking. it will have to be non profit, feds of course. most of these webs or saying more about crime and punishment then anything else. new jersys probebly going to start with 3 or 4 permits. and i know you can get a liquor lic for a mill or so in some areas.

p.s. "wet behind the ears" i really dont think i got my ass handed to me. by telling me the ratios are about the same per watt as a hps but five times the amount of money doesnt sound good. my parent grow my fam grows i grow. it took my friend a few more years then it did me but he was in esl in school. i would have never thought it take a lifetime for someone to master the "the art" of growing a single plant" but i guess i was wrong. i understand lifetimes to make master strains like purps. breeding i dont do, to easy to get good clones.


see now im getting touchey

[khyberkitsune]

"by say becoming more lazy i mean instead of changing the res we'll go skiing for a week when to get a good harvest you need to be there every other day at least"

This is not true for larger DWC systems and NFT systems with proper buffers. I've done an SoG setup where I'd only change the buckets every two weeks. Left me plenty of time to go out of state and do what I do best - build custom light systems for massive horticultural firms.

[irydyum]

every one is pritty touchey. its more of an east coast thing i guess. i smoke hell of weed and never get affented , lifes to short bud.



Only touchy when you are the second noob to slam an idea/process that you have zero hands on real world experience with. That's the difference between you and the people you are arguing with. They own/create/engineer LED lighting with a specific passion for MJ. You say it can't be done cost effectively because you simply don't know the technology.

The HID bulbs I use cost $92 every time i have to replace them. I run 2, so that's $184 every 8-12 mos. Over the lifetime of the 2 LED bars that could replace my 2 400w HID's, that is a potential expense of near $2000 over the 10 year life of LED.

Now we can factor in cost of cooling, whatever means you use, and pretty much half that.

Now you can factor in the energy savings over time, which ironically, is pretty much half of HID for a comparable result.

Maybe this will paint a different picture about how LED's can save you money instead of costing you money, as so many are apt to believing. I don't even own an LED, but I can see the advantages, and thanks to NO BULLSHIT members of this community that you seem to enjoy refuting, I'm no longer skeptical. To me it was never the money or the science, that stuff all works out on paper to be exact. It was the results that were speculative at best, but now my eyes are open to a new generation of LED growers that are doing bigger and better things.

It's hard to argue when ur high off your ass on a nice crystally dense tasty LED bud, so give these guys a break too. They will show you how and why it works if you are willing to sit back, take the blinders off, light a spliff, and really listen.

Just one man's :twocents:

[cliffcliff]

i use flood tables. you change you nuitr. every two weeks. we use strong chems gh bloom and gh micro, called the lucus form. we also put other atitives in as well. every other day i like to go in re ajust the nuitrent level and ph. if you have a 2000 dollar brain you can have the machine monitar and self inject but you should at the very least change the water in the res every week.

[stra8outtaWeed]

you hit the buttons challenging us...read your first post!

"first of all why would you want to pay five times more for the light then you have two. a 1000w hps runs the same electric as a 1000w led. think about it. if your cant afford to cool your room then you def cant afford those lights because thats the money you would be saving(just the power of the cooling system. the power company charges by the kilawot hour(1000w per hour) at about .29 cent on a huge sliding scale. they cant tell if it hps led a hair dryer washing machine etc."

i don't run 1000 watts of LED i replaced 1000w of HPS with 450w of LED..and i can afford to do whatever i like...when i want...but that doesn't mean i am not going to keep wasting energy and filling up landfills with HPS bulbs that have mercury and leach into our water supplies!

don't get touchey..you started this...take your medicine and mellow out..we are stating facts from our own personal grows...not the smoke and mirrors..time lapse photography comments...so watch it! back off eat your crow and learn! i was taught by a breeder who has world famous strains not some pollen chucker! so its no accident that i could grasp the value of learning this new technology and spent almost a year looking before i found a LED light that i thought would work..i knew i cold not grab any UFO off ebay trying to buy the cheapest thing i could find!

you started it with your kidding and thimbs down so yes it has been handed to you that LEDs are a viable light to grow and flower with from all of the responses...i don't see anyone with you but the mouse in your pocket!

ok cliffcliff i am in China right now as we speak i had to leave my grow for a friend to take care of...i'm a little anal or alot about the frmula i use and am willing to smoke but being out of country i wanted the simplest formula possible using exactly the one you mention and i was just told today(my friend is very conservative with estimates) that i should expect about 350g of meds from this run based in what he sees....so this is basically a very unattended grow of mine and i feel those are worwhile results .78 gr/watt ...and i will continue to strive for better yields topping 1gr/watt and i feel once i get it dialed completely then there isn't an HPS thaqt will keep up with LED performance...and 1 more thing...my meds are incredibly much stronger than HPS as LED hits the main wavelenght for creating photosynthesis making indoor weed as powerful as outdoors if not more so with the controls you have indoors. now pull up a seat and read and you will be better off sometimes to keep your mouth shut and learn at a distance than jump in something you have no experience! i'm not flaming you but fools rush their opinion and wise men listen and learn before they open they're mouths! take that as constructive criticism...not an insult! please...we are all here to learn from each other! :hippy:

[redtails]

Only touchy when you are the second noob to slam an idea/process that you have zero hands on real world experience with. That's the difference between you and the people you are arguing with. They own/create/engineer LED lighting with a specific passion for MJ. You say it can't be done cost effectively because you simply don't know the technology.

The HID bulbs I use cost $92 every time i have to replace them. I run 2, so that's $184 every 8-12 mos. Over the lifetime of the 2 LED bars that could replace my 2 400w HID's, that is a potential expense of near $2000 over the 10 year life of LED.

Now we can factor in cost of cooling, whatever means you use, and pretty much half that.

Now you can factor in the energy savings over time, which ironically, is pretty much half of HID for a comparable result.

Maybe this will paint a different picture about how LED's can save you money instead of costing you money, as so many are apt to believing. I don't even own an LED, but I can see the advantages, and thanks to NO BULLSHIT members of this community that you seem to enjoy refuting, I'm no longer skeptical. To me it was never the money or the science, that stuff all works out on paper to be exact. It was the results that were speculative at best, but now my eyes are open to a new generation of LED growers that are doing bigger and better things.

It's hard to argue when ur high off your ass on a nice crystally dense tasty LED bud, so give these guys a break too. They will show you how and why it works if you are willing to sit back, take the blinders off, light a spliff, and really listen.

Just one man's :twocents:

Here here! My thoughts exactly, only put more eloquently :thumbsup:

I'm having to start over, and all these reasons led (haha) me to run with LEDs this time. Plus I'm all about the experimentation, leads me to learn new things each grow that many people wouldn't know by just following a grow guide or mentorship.

I'll be starting a log with the LED panel soon, so feel free to check out my humble results in a few months.

[moody420]

[QUOTE=bigsby;

I'm not there yet but I'm getting closer. Moody - when you are you going to kick off your grow ;).

Peace.[/QUOTE]

Hey bigsby....I have my beautiful new LED light that is hopefully getting hung tonight. My closet has been covered in mylar....I'm picking out new clones tonight and waiting for a few special ones from a friend! :thumbsup:

I'm going to be doing an all coco grow, all house and garden nutrients, all LED....I'm super excited. I should start the thread for it within the next few days! :jointsmile:

[moody420]

if you want to learn more then be humble....people here will bend over backwards to anyone asking for help in a civilized manner!

peace!:hippy:[/QUOTE]

exactly....remember, we all are here to learn and SHARE information. You don't have to agree with everyone or even understand their methods....but just because you didn't like something or haven't heard of it working doesn't mean shit! Everyone has a different technique and some people are much more willing to step outside the box....be humble, be kind, listen and learn! :jointsmile:

[bigsby]

Hey bigsby....I have my beautiful new LED light that is hopefully getting hung tonight. My closet has been covered in mylar....I'm picking out new clones tonight and waiting for a few special ones from a friend! :thumbsup:

I'm going to be doing an all coco grow, all house and garden nutrients, all LED....I'm super excited. I should start the thread for it within the next few days! :jointsmile:

I'll be looking for the grow log. Post a pointer here or as an album so I can fine it.

I think I may be over the fence on this decision. It just makes so much sense for my situation. Damn I wish I didn't have these time constraints. I've been reading / learning for weeks. I'm ready to do some application. Nah. I still have a ways to go before I'll be ready.

Oh, and remind me not to cross you guys. Give cliffcliff some space to breath. He buttered himself up with honey and passed out on an anthill... let him open his eyes to look around. He's picking up knowledge here. Otherwise he wouldn't come back for more.

[stra8outtaWeed]

we want him back as i think he got it....my last post was meant as peace offering in listening and taking notes....no matter how smart you think you are there is always room for improvement in all of us in gaining knowledge and learning from each other because we all share the same goal...to grow the best we can and get the most out of what we have! so cliffcliff come on in and join us....no one is going to bite your head off or piss in your wheaties....just ask us how we got to where we are and not telling us with your first post what we cant do or accuse us of manipulating facts...thats all....and thanks for your contributions bigsby:thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

"He buttered himself up with honey and passed out on an anthill... let him open his eyes to look around."

Boy those are gonna be some swollen eyes when they do open from all the ant bites! ;)

After I realized that my initial post in this thread was condescending beyond even my typical level, i calmed down and just decided to rebuke with fact and no other thing.

[khyberkitsune]

Oh, for those wanting to edit their signature to include links to their grows in progress or prior grows, just use the URL (in brackets) tag.

[futureboy]

Ok, so as you can all tell Iâ??m one of the new kids on the block. I will do my best to be as precise and informative as possible while not trying to step on anyoneâ??s toes. Banter back and forth is good but fighting and taking jabs at one another doesnâ??t do anyone any good. Ok, so enough of the peace and love shit, here is my opinion on Perpetr8râ??s question.
First, my hat is off to Stra8outta. Guyâ??s like this who take chances with new equipment and products are the reason for the awesome advances that have and will continue to take place in this industry.
There are a couple of problems with this discussion that should be addressed so that Perpetr8r can step back and come to his own conclusion on what he is trying to accomplish in his grow. First, in my opinion grams per watt is really only half the story in trying to compare LEDâ??s to HIDâ??s (HPS/MH). See at this point while LEDâ??s definitely have the spectral advantage energy wise they are lacking in the intensity department (getting much better though). Here are two examples to help prove my point. First of all I have a meter that measures Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF) which is measured by micromoles of photons per square meter second. This meter fairly accurately approximates the radiation between 400 and 700 nanometers which are the most important wavelengths for plant growth. Itâ??s not quite a spectroradiometer but for this discussion it is plenty accurate, at least to make my point. Regardless of the size of the diodes and how many are grouped together the readings as you get further from the light rapidly drop off as compared with HID lighting systems (readings fall drastically every inch from the light). In addition, the cone of light coming of the LEDâ??s is almost non-existent. Meaning within a couple of inches of any side of the light fixture the readings are very bad in terms of adequate light for plant growth. Second, the evidence of this phenomenon is present if you read into this thread and the one that Khyberkitsune directs us to called Pinstripes 2nd try. Stra8outtaâ??s .7 grams per watt using LEDâ??s similar to traditional HIDâ??s (what about 1 -2 feet above the canopy stra8outta?) is a real testament to his horticultural skills. Great job man! Unfortunately it proves my point when you compare it to pinstripes 22 watts, 38 grams in 14 weeks (14 weeks? Not good on a 7-9 week variety) at 1.72 grams per watt with what sounds like by his own admission zero horticultural skills. In Pinstripes scenario the LEDâ??s are being used at their optimal distance from the plant and the plants are being kept mad small therefore he has tremendous success. In Stra8outtaâ??s case he is trying to cover many more plants that are much larger and therefore he has a tremendous light loss as the light travels down through the canopy (my bet is less than 20 micromoles of light reaching the bottom limbs of the plants). This loss is going to bring overall yields down as compared with HIDâ??s. These lights as described by the manufacture can be used up to 13 ft away from plants in a commercial greenhouse setting. I can assure you that hanging the lights this high in a commercial setting could be used for one thing and one thing only, photoperiod interruption, which is also done with 60 watt incandescent bulbs in commercial greenhouses. Only a minimal amount of light is necessary to trick the plants.
Ok, so there is some proof to my statement, but I still have not explained why g/w is only half the story. Assuming Perp that you are a RI patient or caregiver and you understand that you are legally allowed to have 12 plants in flower, using Pinstripes method you would yield a whopping 152 grams off of your 12 plants. Yea, I guess you would have only used 88 watts of power but you would have only legally have produced 5 and half ounces in 8-14 weeks. Ok, so now letâ??s look at Stra8outtaâ??s .7 g/w. Yea, this as I have said is really good, especially for LEDâ??s, but what could you or have you produced using the same setup (# of plants, nutrients, etc.) properly outfitted with HIDâ??s and cooling. My bet is at least 1 g/w if not more. That is a difference of 300 grams per 1000 watts. This is almost 11 ounces of herb. Since electric bills are paid in cash money and that is all we are essentially looking to save on unless of course it is all about being â??greenâ?� and lowering your carbon footprint, well then LEDâ??s really donâ??t make economic sense yet. The $200 and lets say for argument sake being somewhat outrageous $300 extra that the HIDâ??s and air cooling are costing to run over the LEDâ??s could be covered by 1 of those eleven ounces or getting crazy RI style 3 of those ounces a $100 a piece. This means you are still 8 ounces or a half pound richer by using HIDâ??s over LEDâ??s.
So Perp its up to you and what your goals are. Shit, if you donâ??t give a fuck about plant limits, LEDâ??s Pinstrip style may work for you. If the # of plants and so does the electric consumption because you not ligit than Stra8outtaâ??s style setup might be best. All I can say is you have to ask yourself, what is my situation?

[perpetr8r]

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this conversation :) I had made my decision to wait on or about the fourth post but this thread took on a life of its own... so I watched it :)
Futureboy, your line of thinking is the same as mine. I do plan on staying a caregiver and do stay within my numbers. It is my determination that I would not be able to maintain my current level of production without an exorbitant amount of LED lighting to replace my current 1000 watt set ups. Though from reading I do believe that if you are doing a SCROG , then LED would be your top pick. No need for the light to penetrate the canopy in a scrog. Thanks again to all!!
Peace :stoned:

[futureboy]

Right on!! Good decision, and great question that hopefully in the near future will be a no brainer for LED's. Being 'Green' all around is good in my book.:pimp:

[atlashomeric]

Hey I'm from GV CA too.