Newbie - First journal 2010, white rhino - CFL - "Rubbermaid" microgrow

[mgjscdhl]

yesterday I was lucky enough to get a clone from a grower.

He/She walked me through taking a cutting, rooting powder, etc.. and it was put into a makeshift dome /w rockwool. He/She had basically told me not to touch it for a week or so.. make sure there is a good root system before transplanting.

This was unexpected so you won't see my grow box until I build it! I already have the materials (except nutes and soil) and a plan but this opportunity fell into my lap. If and at least a week before it needs tending apparently.

He/She said it was white rhino. It looked like a healthy plant. No discoloration, wilting and leaves looked fine. No balls so it looks female lol.
I've heard of some difficulties with "white strains" but this was a freebie so not complaining. If it dies I have seeds and will learn from the experience.

my plan:

using soiless mix; sunrise, pro mx or similar
will add to if needed (verm/perl)
Compact fluorecent lights; 4x 2700k 42w and 2x 6500k 42w
2x "rubbermaid" bin; (Will be stacked on top of each other) 18" D, 23.5" W, 16" H
Nutrients depend on local sources but looking at foxfarm or pureblend
Already have ph meter, temp and hyrdro. Also less reliable moisture/temp/light meter
1lb of activated carbon, also an odorsok for filter/odor
Will start with 120mm pc fans and power supply
Timer is rated for 8a and says "compatible with cfl"

I have plumming supplies, pots, glue, duct tape and other misc for tight seal, weatherproofing... I know I will need a larger fan for filter but the plant so far isn't "stinky", so waiting.. It'll have a intake on bottom and outlet on lid (top). I also may put in a circulation fan. The container is painted and marked out so ready to cut.

Here is a picture of the "greenhouse" cup and clone. I haven't opened it, or removed for pictures. I will post more pictures later, and grow box construction. Still any comments, suggestions are welcome. I do have two questions though; after its first week, and roots aren't robust enough, should I mist/water it again or leave it for another week? Should I leave the lights 24/7 and then 18hrs or start on 18hr cycle now?

P.S. I hope the images work correctly. I am basically using the album for first time.

[jtsik330]

Good deal can't go wrong on a freebie clone. White Rhino I am hoping its everything everyone says it is because mine looks awesome right now in 3 weeks of veg. I swear they must have the fattest leaves I've ever seeeen. I am using Promix now and I have mixed feelings about it. I've heard that the sunshine mix doesn't make the ph fluctuate as much as it does with the promix? Keep us posted I would love to compare!

[mgjscdhl]

lol absolutely not. I had thanked this person several times. Was pleasant surprise.

I've heard (some) people say sun has some recent issues about ph.. Maybee just a person's own experience. I do think they are probably some of the best mixes. I don't have to much experience with plants but for such small leaves they are kind of fat. If you have pictures I'd love to see, your last thread seem to indicate the grow didn't go well. jan 2010. Did you fix it?

[mgjscdhl]

1st Week Update (well around 1, 1/2weeks):

There are two roots outside rockwool. Both are around an inch long. There are 3-4 new flowers but the node on top is flowering slowly. The temperature has been maintained fairly well. Except for today during dark cycle. It dipped 6-7 degrees lower.

I have only given light water every so often and kept rockwool moist on top/bottom. I did make one mistake and fed it tap water (with ph around 7.1-7.2ph) once. Live and learn.

There are some yellowing on top two, new leaves. They are halfway yellow/green. There is also yellowing on the tips of other, larger leaves. I'm a bit concerned as I'm not sure if it was because of the ph OR if this is a normal while a clone is growing roots?

I'll send some pictures in a bit. Its 2am and after a little music I'm going to sleep.

[mgjscdhl]

Third Week update (Flowering Stage):

Sorry. I've put off this too long. Update time. Growbox is being "fixed" while running. Been using lamp inerts for lighting til tonight when I change to fixtures I made. I hope it goes well. I've weather stripped it, sealed the major holes. Although the job does not look pretty its functional. If this is a guide to anybody its probably those like me who aren't too handy but not a disaster.

The clone has been transplanted for almost 4-5 days now. Soiless mix with 1/2 perlite/peatmose. I bought General Organics "Vegan" (Bio Thrive) Grow/Bloom. While I was hoping for pure blend or foxfarms its "organic" so it should give the marijuana a good taste. I'm using 1/4 strenght right now but next feeding will probably be 1/2 or more. I'm using 3x 42w cfl (6500k) and with fixtures I'll have 4x in no problem. The airflow is ok. However I had issues with psu so using a hepa filter/cleaner with 3 speed settings.

I have one thing thats a tad worrying. I'm not sure if, since it IS GROWING, it makes a difference but i haven't been able to get "optimal" temperatures. I will have my air conditioner tomorrow or next but right now its between 76-84F during day and 70-74F at night. The humidity is staying around 26-30% (day and night)<-- no real difference. I tried adding some water to evaporate and I've sprayed the folliage with pure water in morning but nada. No change from inside humidity and normal room humidity.

Should I worry about the difference in temp? Are there anyways to increase humidity without appliances or alot of $$$?
I was thinking about co2. While co2 controllers are beyond my skills/money are there homemade ones I could stay outside the growbox but feed co2 inside and use household items? And can you give me an idea, if possible, how much to feed to single plant?


Here's a "preview", This is just before the first feeding and some yellowing. Although color is almost same now. Also there is more cfl, I had to push one out of the way while photographing. Still working on howto get a closeup shot (macro) I just have a point and shooter so they won't be great when I do.

[mgjscdhl]

small update:

I worked on the "second half" of the growbox tonight. I did the first wiring (electrical) I've done in a LONG TIME. Two replacement wall sockets, some wire and two rubber gromets for a good seal. I originally hoped to have one fixture per side but the width was too much. I bolted it to a thin board, cut holes for wires, etc.. It is now working ok, testing current wattage and keeping fingers crossed - however unless something major happens I think I'm good.

The leaves are now turning a sheany green and most leaves have recovered. One more may be cut because I think its probably dead (yellow). OH.. And I just fit the air conditioner in my room. I turned it on and after 1/2-1hr the moisture went up. The grow is now 76F with 38% humidity but may fluxuate so I will monitor it with my webcam.

So far its going well. The General Organics does seem to balance ph by itself. Luckily with the peatmoss, ph, and fert the balance is being kept at around 5.6-5.8ph. I'm seriously thinking about getting \\only\\ the calmag suppliment but will see how $$ is the next few.

[mgjscdhl]

Since I overalled and changed the fixture the temperature and humidity (facing the plant) is doing well.

Last couple of days have been 72-75F at night, 80-84F during day. With humidity staying roughly 35-40% night and day.
I want to say to those reading this, do not overlook airflow. Because the lights to be wired paralell to each other I fixed by
positioning them vertically. But I didn't leave alot of space on sides to allow "breathing". I still want to tweak the design but it is consitance and airflow is 200-300ft/min. I do keep the air conditioner on to keep room at around 75F when I'm here though.

I re-checked my water/fert mix and it was all 6.3-6.4ph. Only using 1/2 strenght fertilizer regiment. The plant is around 4-5" tall and
quite bushy, plenty of leaves and looks like new branches.

I was wondering since my topsoil is really dry at times if it was ok to just water a little or leave the pot until it "feels" it needs water by weighing method? Because I pick it up, and it feels almost 1/2 heavier (its a 1.4l pot btw) but top is bone dry. This soiless mix doesn't clump \\great\\ so maybee next grow I need a new blend/brand or another additive to get that effect.


Here is one picture of two leaves I've trimmed. You should be able to see the "burnt" white tip. Also the discoloration of the larger one..
Right now I am noticing some white spots on a few newborn leaves. I've looked around and seen spidermites or flies as possible culprits.. But first I want to see if I'm over reacting or gotten the diagnosis wrong. I haven't found any pests yet but perhaps need magnifier glass. Let me know what you think. If something stands out or have questions please do so.

If the mother plant is in preflowering will the clones be as well?
If I look for a tds/ppm meter later on what kind can I find on a budget but decent features?

[mgjscdhl]

update:

Oh. Its been brought to my attention the plant is a white Russian, not white rhino. I will ask the moderators for a change. I'm sorry for any confusion. Entirely my fault. I should have written it down as I got the cutting.

I think I may have some problems with the girl. I have yellowing signs on one fan leaf and 3 others are dark yellow. This is after it cleared up! I've kept the heat/humidity the same so I'm not sure.. what should I do?

[mgjscdhl]

I did some googling prior to post, but it seems different symptoms or more than one. I think I've messed something up this time and not just being paranoid.
I havent found bugs, so I do not think its that. I tested the ph and everything is around normals. So I think it could be
deficient in some way. It probably started on middle or low leaves, they started also to "curl" inward. But since pictures tell
a thousand words. Check the two wider leaves in front. The low one has very dark stem in contrast to the leaf. It looks a bit lighter
color in person. The one higher up and to the right has "spots" in middle and near the end of leaf. On the non-closeup there is also spots near the edges of another leaf, near the bottom of the leaf. The rest of the plant looks ok (to me).
Oh.. And last feeding was 4 days ago, she's 16 days into transplant into soil and is currently on 3/4 strenght ferts.


If you have anymore questions I'm happy to help. If I'm stressing over nothing I'm sorry.

[mgjscdhl]

will update tomorrow, sorry for taking so long
and I will update on the yellowing, and how flush went

[GetThisOrDie]

Whats up? Hope your plant is doing better!

How do you test your ph? Pen, test strips, or liquid? To me it looks a little PH stressed. It could be a deficiency like you mentioned. PH can cause deficiency by causing "lockout" of certain nutrients. Always PH correct your nutrient/water AFTER its all mixed up.

Milwaukee pH 600 Digital pH Meter/Tester pH600 0-14 New - eBay (item 370369354952 end time May-22-10 11:25:19 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-pH-600-Digital-pH-Meter-Tester-pH600-0-14-New-/370369354952?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563bbbdcc8)
Cheap PH pen...

Also how far away are your lights?

Also...to answer your question.. The clone is the exact age and copy of the mother. If she was 2 months old then so is your clone.

Remember... the first grow is always a learning experience.

[mgjscdhl]

she seems to be doing better. Its eased my mind a bit and I've relaxed somewhat on the eviromental aspects now I've got them dialed in.

Actually that is exactly the pen/testing liquid I had gotten from an ebay member. I typically do two tests per sample just to make sure. I don't have a second meter or strips.

I typically test water prior, use my fertilizer first (measured for strenght), test ph and then use +/- ph to balance.. I'll usually wash it off and test again for accuracy. My last watering was 6.0ph

The lights may not be "exact" but its typically 3" away or maybee 4". It tends to make things a bit to warm if I don't using hand method and a bit over 83-84F on foliage using thermometer.

Definitely a learning experience. But fun, and its got my mind wandering into what I did wrong, new setup, genetics.

[mgjscdhl]

The day before, I watered with simple h2o. Ph'd 6.0 and gotten about 20% runoff. She is drooping a little but probably just thirsty. There was some yellowing and leaf curling (to bottom) but today she's less yellow and I'm hopeful. She's very close to 8" tall now. The temperature has been a steady 75F (average) during day and 72F (average) during night. The humidity has been around 50-55%
day/night. The lights have been dropped again to keep it at around 2-3" (although its hard to get a definite measurement). Because her roots are getting a bit too much for the pot I'm planning a transplant pretty soon. No big muckoffs so far, except the previous flushing.

Lights are a bit tricky in this size box and while I'm speaking about things I'm gonna suggest anybody do these type of grows to find a good airflow and lower/highten the plant by blocks/cds/legos or whatever else you have and keep the lights about same distance.

The book I have says before flowering it should be around 10" tall. But I'm wondering first if thats set in tone OR possibly a good time for me to do it because of limited space? Some estimates are 1.5-2x size but with 30" give or take I have to be careful.

I was also wondering if I could try to "influence" the limbs to spread out a bit? I was thinking of paperclips or very small wire to lower the limbs out of the way, let them grow and adjust to the position and stop. Can this achive what I'm looking for? (there's only really 3-4 branches) I assume if something breaks you could mend it and it'll still grow anyways.... Uh, right?

[mgjscdhl]

I'm sorry to be posting again, I sound like a hypocondriac and feeling kinda blue myself because If there is something wrong I'm definitely messing up my grow and my girl.

To make a long story short If I should post in sick forum I will.. you know, again..
I have some curling under of leaves. I just gave it pure h2o at 6.0ph 4 days ago. Nothing else really have changed. Except one day it dropped below 70F for a half hour or more and above 82F for roughly same time. All this was after the fact however. I also beleive these are not leaves effected by light issue I discussed. Some are lower on the plant and some are "newish" growth that didn't show it at the time.

In addition there is blue-/purple-ish discoloration from the ends and tips of leaves spreading inward (a little). I'm convinced its deficient. According to online sites it could be phosphate or potasium. Either way I need to know to post in sick section... you know again :(

[mgjscdhl]

since I have her (for the second time) in the hosptial (sick plant section) I don't have too much to say here.
She is still growing height wise but too much new growth. The preflowering is spreading up her trunk from bottom.
I'm waiting to see how she goes this week to either transplant, or do further affirmary action. She's getting 1/4
fert and just letting her show signs of problems or health from here.

I beleive I'm going to change water source and use epsom salts or molasses (blackstrap) to get cal/mag.
I will check in a week if she needs transplant to a larger pot.

For those counting:

2 months, 1 day since cutting
27 days since I flushed for first time
44 days since I transplanted.

Nights are steady on temperature and humidity. It warns me when it gets lower via buzzer. I also have monitor
in my room since the difference is typically a degree lower. I reconstructed the box, and finding if I have a usb
flex fan on my plant the rest can be done by 120MM fan quite easily. So I ended up unplugging one.

Oh, and I noticed some spiders in the box tonight (looks like common household spiders. I couldn't see one up close
because.... Well I have archiphobia and I had to just squish them. However they were large enough, they didn't look
like spider-mites.

[mgjscdhl]

Some have asked for pics... And yes its been a while. Just fyi for newcommers to the thread she's currently in the "infirmiry/sick plant" section of forum. She has a few days before soil is dry enough to continue the watering cycle. I will give her some h2o then and let her soak up the access nutrients. Its distilled water with added molasses while I'm waiting for CalMg+.

Pictured here are:

the growbox (rubbermaid bin); The intakes are at the bottom (90 degree pvc tube), 120mm fan for exhaust, Analogue timer, power cords, etc... Ona block has been just enough for smell so far.

Indoors: She is two months old now.. The black wrapped cord is for the thermometer and the box just inside the camera view is for the termometer/hydrogemeter + camera. The box is just leftover plastic and I can view the temp/r/o without opening the growroom.
Camera is steamed to my pc, and snapshot every 15mins.

If there are any other questions let me know. Its nothing special, and I'm clearly not a handyman lol but it works well and airflow/temp is pretty consistant.
Thanks to those following the thread. I appreciate the help, and I hope someone found it useful if they are starting.

[mgjscdhl]

Something I never wanted to say. I let the poor girl have a proper burial.
She just never full recovered from whatever condition she had.

The last few days she had more blue-ish discoloration and some other
leaves were looking bad. I thought instead of keep doing it wrong I'd start
again and try to get it right, and solve problems faster.
I would have also been out of the house for about a week now. Without
some intervention the a/c, humidity would not have been in proper levels.


I will probably start seedling(s) when I get home, I have a few kush, lemon haze, white rhino and ak48. I'm looking around for info on which one I should start out with. Seeing if there are any more tolerant to pests or easier for newcommers. I need much more time to consider soil, water, feeding, and seeds right now. I'm even considering to wait for some other seeds, or hps/fan... But that is only if I win the lotto lol


Obviously I need some better luck and more reading before another box/grow. In meantime I'm going to trim the fat in the growbox design if possible.. Further posts to follow. I have some questions about fert/soil mixes and water. I hope the readers here will look for those threads.