Pedro's experiment

[Pedro de Pacas]

Hiya folks! It's been a while since my last grow (mind you, the little lady and I don't consume as much as I grow) and I had a bunch of leftover Afghani Special seeds left. I figured, (since I wasn't impressed with them in the first place) that this is a good opportunity to experiment.

Since my Grow cab is stuffed with stuff that would be all over the place, I decided to come up with a second one, a bit smaller.


new grow cab - 10 Cubic feet, white finish (no need to paint natrurally reflective inner surface)
seeds for the test: my leftover AS seeds, currently potted in Jiffy Pots (so if it's too acidic I won't care)
I'm fully extpecting males & hermies...good thing too: the new cab can accomodate 2 3 gallon pots, no more
lighting: my dual band UFO (I'm expecting delivery of a triband in a few weeks)
light schedule:12/12 (if it's a mistake, now's the time to make it)
I'm also expecting delivery of a 100 CFM inline fan (more than enough for the new cab, should even be plenty for a makeshift carbon scrubber


Depending on how well this grow goes, I might want to invest in a strain that's good for athsma. So far pretty much all of the Indica dominant strains I've tried are good for relaxation, I need something good for the old lungs...

Looks like CannaSutra by Delta 9 Labs is the only strain available around these parts that's good for wheezers like me...

[Pedro de Pacas]

Watered the seedlings. Can't wait for the new equipment to be delivered...

[Shovelhandle]

Great to see that you're getting back into the dirt, Pedro :jointsmile:

[Pedro de Pacas]

Great to see that you're getting back into the dirt, Pedro :jointsmile:

Why thank you! :thumbsup:

Today's update: two seeds are sprouting out of the soil...out of 8? Man those Afghani Special seeds are crappy...:wtf:

[Pedro de Pacas]

And I've learned something new through reading LED grow posts...

a successful LED grows needs:

more heat
better air circulation
much less water than CFL or HID grows
less nutes
more Co2


add that to the 1 gallon per 12 inches (of expected plant height) rule of thumb to select appropriate pots...

I wonder what the ideal cabinet tempreature shhould be for LED grows?

[Pedro de Pacas]

Did some research on LED farming, came across this neat FAQ

LED Grow Lights and FAQs About Lumen and Lux Output of LEDs (http://www.led-grow-master.com/FAQS.html)


between 70 degrees F to 80 degrees F if you wish to accelerate the rate of plant growth

Hopefully that also applies to MJ culture...my new grow cab's current temperature is 23.9 Celsius, which is approximately 75 degrees Fahrenheit which places the new cab temps right in the zone...though I'm getting the feeling I ought to aim for the 80F mark?

Still awaiting delivery of the inline fan...

[Pedro de Pacas]

Oh yeah, after doing some more reading into the subject, THC is the natural bronchial dilator; the more of that resin, the better the effect...

Tried a new seed bank and the man at the counter said: "For athsma, you need to vaporize. If you're gonna vaporize, might as well select a strain that tastes good."

I have thus selected the seed bank's Blueberry Skunk. 80% Indica, 20% Sativa...hopefully the THC content is high enough (no pun intended) to help with the old wheeze... $70.00 for 10 seeds, hard to go wrong! :thumbsup:

[Pedro de Pacas]

The tall, stubby one looks like it's getting mouldy at the root...the short one looks like it's doing okay...the other 6 haven't germinated at all...fortunately, this test run will teach me what to avoid when growing the blueberry skunk!

[Pedro de Pacas]

I thought the tall one was dead, but after the weekly watering it propped itself back up!

[khyberkitsune]

Looks good.

I can tell you right now to avoid LED lights that have very little blue. Sure they'll work fine for growing the plant but when it comes to yield you will suffer if you lack blue.

Watch my 50w micro grow, in my sig. You'll see the huge difference the extra blue makes even throughout veg.

[stra8outtaWeed]

the more blue for seeds the better...blue light helps create females:thumbsup: more red makes males! :(

temps are good right now but 85-88 is best for flowering with CO2:jointsmile:

just what i have found in growing with LED's for about 2 years this summer...and flowering i have completed 4 start to finish wiht LED's

your plant will have more oil production from what i have found in my meds so I am very happy with all stages of growing with LED's...even cloning...there is no algea build up around the edge of the dome that is constantly wet from condensation:smokin:

its just a matter of time before the HIDS are gone:rasta:

[Pedro de Pacas]

Thank you my friends! I might just CFL my Blueberry Skunk during vegging and LED it during flowering :hippy: Like I was saying, if mistakes are to be made, I might as well make 'em now, with the left over Afghani Special! :thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

Thank you my friends! I might just CFL my Blueberry Skunk during vegging and LED it during flowering :hippy: Like I was saying, if mistakes are to be made, I might as well make 'em now, with the left over Afghani Special! :thumbsup:

Just veg and flower with the LED. :) Keep the LED VERY close to the plant canopy (if your light lacks blue) so growth remains ultra-compact and dense while you veg, then back it off two or three inches when you flower and keep it that far from the plants. The trick with the blue-poor panels is to not let plants get too tall or the yield will suffer.

Really, once you figure out how to use LED, you'll ditch all fluorescents. I've got two 216w T5HO units, unhung, unused, waiting for someone to buy them. CFLs stay in lamps. The only incandescents I have are in flashlights and one bulb for a total rig-job of a hotplate for making Iso hash. You won't find an HID in my house any longer.

[Pedro de Pacas]

Received the tri-band UFO today and hooked it up...my first impression is that it leaves me a bit underwhelmed. My dual-band is much brighter than the tri-band for starters, the tri-band has an orange-esque hue that reminds me of my HPS light but much less powerful...

Okay, this was first glance and I was in a hurry to get to work on time so I'll reserve final judgement once I've rested...but I'm positive the dual-band one is brighter.

[khyberkitsune]

"the tri-band has an orange-esque hue that reminds me of my HPS light but much less powerful..."

I can almost guarantee this is due to the loads of 630nm in there. Good for photosynthesis, horrible for production. The orange hue is a dead giveaway.

I think you should return it, honestly. They're fine for vegetative growth but they're really limited for yield.

[stra8outtaWeed]

experienced the same thing...moved that light into my veg are with procyons and they are great veg lights but not so hot on production...my production did not kick in until i got the ones with more 660nm:thumbsup:

[Pedro de Pacas]

I think you should return it, honestly. They're fine for vegetative growth but they're really limited for yield.

Looking into it...hopefully that dude in Hong Kong has a good return policy! There's no comparison, the dual band UFO (my original one) is at least twice as bright...

I added a 14w blue LED panel to the cab and returned the dual-band UFO in there...

[khyberkitsune]

Looking into it...hopefully that dude in Hong Kong has a good return policy! There's no comparison, the dual band UFO (my original one) is at least twice as bright...

I added a 14w blue LED panel to the cab and returned the dual-band UFO in there...

They should accept the return no problem.

If not I'll trade you one of mine so I can have one of those panels to do a comparison grow against :)

[Pedro de Pacas]

They should accept the return no problem.

If not I'll trade you one of mine so I can have one of those panels to do a comparison grow against :)

Hey, thanks for the offer! :) Except it's not a panel, it's an actual UFO I'm trying to return...(in my mind a "panel is one of those 12" X 12" things...)

Current cab temps: 85.28 F right in da zone! :thumbsup: mind you that's before adding the new inline fan (currently sitting at the post Office)...I'll have to see what that does to the temps!

[khyberkitsune]

Hey, thanks for the offer! :) Except it's not a panel, it's an actual UFO I'm trying to return...(in my mind a "panel is one of those 12" X 12" things...)

Current cab temps: 85.28 F right in da zone! :thumbsup: mind you that's before adding the new inline fan (currently sitting at the post Office)...I'll have to see what that does to the temps!

The only 'panel' I have is my 120w unit, everything else, the 90 and 50w, are UFO units, and then my 15w unit is a spotlight E38 base.

[Pedro de Pacas]

"the tri-band has an orange-esque hue that reminds me of my HPS light but much less powerful..."

I can almost guarantee this is due to the loads of 630nm in there. Good for photosynthesis, horrible for production. The orange hue is a dead giveaway.

I think you should return it, honestly. They're fine for vegetative growth but they're really limited for yield.

You are right on the money:

Wavelength of Red LEDs: 630nm
Wavelength of Blue LEDs: 460nm
Wavelength of Orange LEDs: 610nm

Still awaiting to hear back from the seller about returns...

[stra8outtaWeed]

khyber's a good dude...what an offer....props to ya bro!

[Pedro de Pacas]

khyber's a good dude...what an offer....props to ya bro!

Indeed! :hippy:

Well, the seller got back to me this morning asking me why I want to return it... in a nutshell my reply was "compared it to my dual band UFO, the dual band it much brighter and more powerful, can it (the tri-band) be returned?"

His reply in the next 24 hours I guess? Question: can the air exchange output be drilled at the bottom of the cab for a LED grow? Since heat rises, this way the heat remains in the cabinet while the air recirculates in the cab?

[stra8outtaWeed]

thats a lame answer from the seller...what the hell does that got to do with inferior light...and returning it!:wtf:

sorry you had to experience Pedro...they are probably not used to people wanting to return since they are over seas!

[khyberkitsune]

"Question: can the air exchange output be drilled at the bottom of the cab for a LED grow? Since heat rises, this way the heat remains in the cabinet while the air recirculates in the cab?"

You could do this, I'd imagine.

[Pedro de Pacas]

Seller's response:


please don't worry,our UFO not much brighter and powerful than your other UFO is because the wave band of our UFO is diffrent from your other UFO,so their brightness and strength are also diffrent,but are the same effectiveness

Does this sound like the run-around to you? :rolleyes:

[Pedro de Pacas]

My original UFO, my cheap old blue LED panel and a PAR38 red LED bulb...the sprouts are indeed seeking the blue...need more blue!

:i feel stupid:

[khyberkitsune]

Seller's response:



Does this sound like the run-around to you? :rolleyes:

Yes, it does, bigtime. Most of those people know the same wavelengths are used in most any panel. Yours is likely brighter because you're actually pushing more power to those wavelengths and using better-quality diodes. I'm betting they're using lower-bin diodes with cruddy output.

[Pedro de Pacas]

Yes, it does, bigtime. Most of those people know the same wavelengths are used in most any panel. Yours is likely brighter because you're actually pushing more power to those wavelengths and using better-quality diodes. I'm betting they're using lower-bin diodes with cruddy output.

Yeah...and it looks like I can't return the darned thing...:mad:

[Pedro de Pacas]

Question, how critical is the LED wavelength? If I add a PAR38 LED spotlight rated at 665 -670nm is it useless? Ditto if I'd like supplemental Blue, if the light is rated at 455nm rather than 445nm, is it useless?

Just wondering...

[khyberkitsune]

Question, how critical is the LED wavelength? If I add a PAR38 LED spotlight rated at 665 -670nm is it useless? Ditto if I'd like supplemental Blue, if the light is rated at 455nm rather than 445nm, is it useless?

Just wondering...

As long as you're pushing from 420-470nm blue and 630-670nm red you're hitting the high peaks and doing fine. Given what you've said about the panel, supplement with more blue, please. :)

[Pedro de Pacas]

As long as you're pushing from 420-470nm blue and 630-670nm red you're hitting the high peaks and doing fine. Given what you've said about the panel, supplement with more blue, please. :) // If not I'll trade you one of mine so I can have one of those panels to do a comparison grow against

I'm bidding on a PAR38 blue LED light...as a supplement only. :hippy:

Tell me, are you still interested in the trade? The seller doesn't seem to be too keen on a return and I sure won't be using it...:confused:

[khyberkitsune]

I'm bidding on a PAR38 blue LED light...as a supplement only. :hippy:

Tell me, are you still interested in the trade? The seller doesn't seem to be too keen on a return and I sure won't be using it...:confused:

I had to check with my higher-ups to see if they'd agree to the trade since we'd love to have a side unit to compare against, but they said no to that.

If you want, I'd be down to trade you one of my 216w T5HO units with 8 bulbs (4 6500K and 4 3000K) with barely any use for the 90w panel. I can make that trade since the T5 units are mine alone.

[Pedro de Pacas]

I had to check with my higher-ups to see if they'd agree to the trade since we'd love to have a side unit to compare against, but they said no to that.

If you want, I'd be down to trade you one of my 216w T5HO units with 8 bulbs (4 6500K and 4 3000K) with barely any use for the 90w panel. I can make that trade since the T5 units are mine alone.

That would be much too big and powerful for my stealth mini grow...but I apopreciate the offer! thanks my friend! :thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

That would be much too big and powerful for my stealth mini grow...but I apopreciate the offer! thanks my friend! :thumbsup:

If you paid by credit/debit card, you may be able to get a refund. First you'll have to prove that you returned the light. Basically return-ship it to them and get delivery confirmation. Then immediately get your charges reversed by calling the card company and sending them either faxed or scanned copies of the delivery confirmations, and cite "Bad equipment, they refused refund. I returned the non-functional item and would like a chargeback, please."

If you need help looking for a more reliable panel to try out, let me know, I'll look around. Also, there are tons of people here, like stra8outtaweed, who might have other solutions as well, so hit any of us LED-heads up on our skype or aim or yahoo names. I'm usually around from 10AM until 3AM California time (awake at 9:30AM, don't sleep till 3 that next morning,) since I have to deal with international companies, so don't hesitate to contact me!