Doc Oc's first grow log, 3 White Widows from Nirvana

[Ocotillo]

I wanted to make my first grow log with my 100th post instead of the same old small talk and BS. I have a few woes going on so this is just a start and I'll build on it as we go. I also found it very eerie how Raiz' is practically doing a "mirror" grow as I am!!! Weird or what? :eek:

Anyway, right now it's 2 WW's just starting week 3 of flower, 1 WW starting flower due to a mix up of labels in the pots, one free Nirvana seed, and one bag seed which has yet to show me her "money maker". That is a humorous antidote as this is strictly for personal use, no selling going on, personal consumption ONLY. Two other BS (bag seed) plants turned out male so far. All had at least 6 weeks from seed and FIM was done, sort of. :wtf:

For the nitty gritty I'll fill out the "trouble shooting form" upcoming. I can say it's a 5 sf closet area under an air cooled HPS 400W'er. Miracle grow AP and BB nutes (All Purpose and Bloom Booster), Amend Patio soil (kind of hot with guano's), rain water, PH pen, carbon filter, yada yada yada.....:detective1:

I'd like to thank CabCom for the wealth of information. I've been gardening all my life although never indoors and rarely weed. Every outdoor weed plant we ever tried was stolen! :cursing:

[Ocotillo]

Soil Grows - Peat Based

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)
First time indoor
Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)
6 T-12, 40W each; 4 cool and 2 warm for seed and veg. 400W MH for mega grow if flower room is available, and 400W HPS to flower
.2) Distance from tops?
2", 12", 12" respectively
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) Aurora 6 air cooled hood
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply?
Yes, passive intake
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan?
Yes and Yes
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule?
Wattages and Kelvins see above. Veg 18/6, Flower 12/12

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...)
Started with Scotts, changed to Amend Patio potting soil
.8) Size of container.
From "frat party" solo cups up to 5 gal if necessary, right now at 1.5 gal round
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings?
No, seeds just straight into soil, old school yo

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting?
Tap water 7.7 at first, then 7.0 rain water.
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...)
Milwaukee pen and drops
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...)
GH kit
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.
Miracle Grow All Purpose and Miracle grow Bloom Booster
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering?
Now, every other like Rusty orders!!! was up to 2.0 tsp for veg with the AP, and now giving 1.0 tsp for early flowering with BB
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)
Vitamin B-1 and SuperThrive and now molasses weekly too
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate?
Stable now, used to fluctuate when I used tap water and never checked it- go figure
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph?
Trick question, I check it for each plant in flower and adjust to runoff balance of around 6.6ish
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray?
Not usually, only if they dry out or were locked out

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors?
Indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut?
Flower- 2'x2.5'x8' tall, Veg- 2'x51"x8' tall
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off?
Flower- H: 26-43%, T: 67-82. Veg- H: 34-56%, T: 68-82.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom?
Only a couple gnats.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?)
White Widow
24) From seeds or clones?
seed
25) Is this an autoflower strain?
No

[raizla]

From the two pics you put up, your plants look great man! I have some questions for ya if you don't mind.

When did you start giving the molasses? Do you think it's helped?

Do you plan on moving up to 5 gallon pots? I planned to finish in 3 gallons.

How did you manage to block out all the light coming around the outside of your mirrored closet? I'd love to see pictures of your setup!

It looks like our grows are pretty similar. I'd love to see some pictures of your plants when they were smaller. Luckily you've got a 400w HPS to flower in. I've got to stick with my T5 all the way through.

[Ocotillo]

When did you start giving the molasses? Do you think it's helped?
I just started the Molasses a few days ago so it's too soon to "see" anything. From what I've been reading it can only help. Talk around town says buds can get 20% bigger while there seems to be no down side at all. It's Grandmothers unsulphered original.


Do you plan on moving up to 5 gallon pots? I planned to finish in 3 gallons.
The plants are doing the planning and they have yet to tell me if they will need the 5 gallon pots. You can tell when they seem to need more frequent watering and the PH keeps going acid. I went from cups, to .5 gal square pots, to 1.5 gal round pots, next will be 3 gal round pots, finally 5 gallon rectangular square cat litter buckets as Four 5 gallon round pots may not fit in my small flower room.


How did you manage to block out all the light coming around the outside of your mirrored closet? I'd love to see pictures of your setup!

I sectioned it off with plywood, crudely framed out and installed doors. The doors are so warped that right now it's serving as the intake! This is not YET my ideal set up, I need better doors, more exhaust fan for the flower room, exhaust for the veg room, and to make some actual intakes once the doors are better sealed.

There are actually 3 sections, the tall flower room, the wide veg room, and above the veg room is the "ballast room" with smoke/fire detector. I got a couple used 400W MH "bay lights", converted one to HPS with a ballast kit from 1000 bulbs dot com and have them hanging from the ceiling on bicycle hooks. I replaced the sockets with short heavy cords with plugs that I can switch to the hood socket kit for MH or HPS. Heck, some day I could even add a MH to the hood to make it a 400W HPS AND 400W MH flower light totaling 800W! That may be a bit much for 5 sf. ;) Soon this room too will need a vent to the attic or else it will just heat the other two rooms which would defeat the purpose.


It looks like our grows are pretty similar. I'd love to see some pictures of your plants when they were smaller. Luckily you've got a 400w HPS to flower in. I've got to stick with my T5 all the way through.

Thanks very much. Like I said above, I've been throwing this thing together staying ahead of the plants needs so far. When hot weather gets here I'm sure I need more ventilation.

[Ocotillo]

Do you plan on moving up to 5 gallon pots? I planned to finish in 3 gallons.

@ 2 1/2 weeks into flower I just inspected and changed pots up to 3 gal. They were over due for sure. I'm equally sure they will be needing to go up to 5 gal about half way from now to the end, in about 4 weeks assuming we go 10 weeks total flower time. No use building it all to skimp on soil at the end.

[redtails]

In my experience and some reading, the roots slow way down in growth while flowering so another transplant might not be necessary but then again a little extra soil never hurt anything.

[raizla]

In most of the grow logs I've read, people are discouraging transplanting during flowering. Some have done it with no negative consequences, while others are very against it.

[Shovelhandle]

agreed. I would plan ahead on the transplantings, pruning, taking clones, etc. Once you are a week into flowering it's probably best to leave things be. You could always transplant right on top of another vessel (tier style) with minimal distubance to the plant and it's roots.

[Ocotillo]

In most of the grow logs I've read, people are discouraging transplanting during flowering. Some have done it with no negative consequences, while others are very against it.

Thank you Raizla and Shovelman, somehow I missed that little tidbit of info about not transplanting into flower period. Seems like these may then be the final pots. They did get a bit yellow the next day :eek: which I was hoping was "normal" for flower plus the extra water used for the transplant process.

I don't know what tier style transplant is, a quick google search showed some plants plopped half way up on top of another pot? I don't like the looks of that although the jury is still out. (meaning have not decided yet) :detective1:

I do the "Chinese box of boxes" style transplant, I'll name it the Box of Boxes method, or BoB for short. We also don't want to piss off the Chinese at this point here in the US. We may owe our soul to God, but we owe our ass and everything else to China. :mad:

Anyway, I found somewhere to transplant this way and I like it :thumbsup: :
Take your new pot and one of your old smaller pots,
Fill the new pot enough to place the old pot inside so both pot tops are even,
Now fill in all around the edges between the two pots to make a mold,
Pack it slightly, not too much, just to it won't fall apart then water
Let it drain well and remove the smaller inner pot
You will now have a old pot soil cavity inside the bigger new pot soil,
Now simply take your plant and place it into it's premade cavity,
Sprinkle a bit of soil around the top and water a bit more.
I don't know how that could be less stress free, or would that be more stress free? :wtf: Anyway, I wish I was as stress free. :rolleyes:

I think that is a very low stress method so I'm hoping I dodged a bullet :rambo: messing around during flower. And if I may "speculate", The Fox Farm nute schedule shows to add some nitrogen (grow big) at week 3 and 4 of flower so I'll hoping to end up similar to that via the guanos and stuff in the fresh soil. Anyway, well see. (I should translate "Anyways" with an added S for our friends in CA) I'm not actually using Fox Farms yet so I'm NOT adding MG AP all purpose, just the BB bloom booster.

I don't anticipate messing with them much more now, just water, flush, nute and rotate. :weedpoke:

[raizla]

This thread needs more pictures! You know we love to drool over these sexy lil plants!

[Ocotillo]

This thread needs more pictures! You know we love to drool over these sexy lil plants!

LOL, point well taken so I took some pix. This is just the veg room half and yes, exhaust ventilation is needed I know. I open the door a few times a day until then. And now, on with the pix!

[Ocotillo]

Ha ha, I said "colour" instead of color to sound all sophisticated! :detective1:

I digress :silly: , here are pix of the flower room. For specs see above post of trouble shooting form Q&A.

[Ocotillo]

Now for some shamelessly gratuitous plant pix :dance: , 2 WW's and 1 free seed are a day from week 3. 1 WW is week 1 of flower, and 1 bag seed week 1 also.

[raizla]

Your plants looks great man! Now I have an idea of what to strive for. :thumbsup: Also looks like you spent a good amount of time setting up that grow room.

Have you noticed anything special about your Nirvana WW's? Are they sensitive to any nutes? Whatever you can think of...

[Ocotillo]

Your plants looks great man! Now I have an idea of what to strive for. :thumbsup: Also looks like you spent a good amount of time setting up that grow room.

Have you noticed anything special about your Nirvana WW's? Are they sensitive to any nutes? Whatever you can think of...

Thank you.

I noticed the WW's could have handled more N nutes because the bag seed and some free seed plants were darker and just starting to get nute burn. All else being the same, the WW's were eating it up and not even dark green. Now, I'm sure you know I'm NOT saying to go all crazy and blast them with both barrels... Just that they are a real thoroughbred and can use good food.

I "believe" I recall that hybrid veggies can also handle more nutes since they are a mix, better than either original. Heirloom (original plants, Never mixed, never hybrid) also can't handle as much nutes as hybrids. Small world.

[Ocotillo]

I went to the hardware store to make some individual scrog screens with tomatoe cages maybe a screen I'd tack weld on the top. I take my plants out to water/flush until I find/make a water pan. Instead I found these things all ready to go. No fuss no muss, plus they were on sale! I had to bend them smaller for my small room which otherwise would not have been necessary.

See pic, please pardon the awful lighting (flash).

[Ocotillo]

Two days after the last pix and cystals are blowing up. It's exactly first day of week 4. As the kids may say "The shit is of the hook yo". :pimp: Word.

[raizla]

Dude what an awesome find with those tomato screens! :thumbsup: I've been fussing over the best way to make my scrog screen, and you may have just solved my problem. Your plants are in 3 gallon pots right? Ideally I'd love to find them in a square shape, but hell, if I can find these at all I wouldn't complain.

[raizla]

Where'd ya go buddy? Show us how your stuff is goin!

[Ocotillo]

Thanks for the shout out Raiz-man.... I've been distracted with other stuff which is good. It makes it seem like they grow faster!

I've been seeing some (nute burn?) spots and have laid off the MG BB for the past two weeks. I was giving 1 tsp per gal once a week before that, too much? The yellow leaves I think are normal, especially since I did a flush yesterday. Somehow the PH was pretty high. After running about 20 gallons of rain water around 4.0 (into 4, 3 gallon pots and 1, 1.5 gal pot) I finally got the runoff in the mid 6 range for now. Maybe because I never flushed and PH'd the new soil?

I've been having a burnt tips thing too. I moved the light up and it seems about the same. Is that bad?

The buds do look good though. Do they look on track for 5 weeks? Actually just the two on the right (RF and RR) are at 5 weeks now, the others are at 3 weeks. Sorry for the quick snap shots poor quality, I got to get back to work so I just wanted to stay in touch and ask those couple q's. Have fun all!

Oh! And I went and opened the Pandora's Box..... Meaning, I tried a sample or three. Wow, it's great, very smooth with little flavor. Probably since it's premature. Very nice though, "keeps my busy" high. Very motivating. I like the sativa type of "uplifting" high. I call it speed weed. Now I just hope they are not all smoked up by harvest time! Ha ha.

[DaNkBuD420]

How long did you veg for? About how tall were they?

[Ocotillo]

How long did you veg for? About how tall were they?
Vegged for 6 weeks since seed broke soil. They got about 6" or so tall in that time with topping/attempted FIM. That biggest one in the back (with the screen) was a free Nirvana seed that's growing like a weed. the Next (WW clones) will be better and bigger if all goes according to plan. Thanks. Doc Oc.

[Ocotillo]

Well, it's a full 7 weeks flowering to the day so you know what that means.... Picture day! :yippee: (Shout out to my bro Raiz man)

If you've all been following along, we've been laying off the bloom nutes. The color is no longer so dark green and the tips stopped burning so the last watering a few days ago was only half nutes (MG BB). That will probably be the final fertilizing too since tomorrow begins week 8, flush time. Hairs have been turning brown this week, I'm guessing that's normal.:rolleyes:

You'll also notice not only have the 6-7 week old clones moved up since last time and got repotted today. the hot "Patio" soil got a throttling down with my mix own mix of 3 parts Kellogg Patio Plus (all natural with guano, worm castings, and chicken shit), to 1 part Pearlie, to 1 part vermiculite. Again, that's 3:1:1. PH in 7.8, PH out 7.4, Soil around 7.1. Once in a while things work out just right. :weedpoke:

I "theorize" the reason we got slight nute burn was because of using full strength patio soil two weeks into flower and still using the unfamiliar BG BB (bloom booster) nutes also. :detective1:

If a pic is worth a thousand words, then I'll save you 3,000 more of mine. :eek: Thanks all! :dance: On with the show:

[Dutch Pimp]

looking pretty good!...congrats...enjoy your grow...:thumbsup:

[raizla]

Nice to seeya again Oc! The girls looks great. You've got to be pretty happy with the grow. Do you see any color change in the trichomes yet?

If you had to do things differently, what do you think you would have changed about your grow? Starting with better soil? Changing the nute schedule? Trimming or training differently? Whatever you want to share would probably help anyone reading.

[Ocotillo]

Thanks Dutch Pimp and Riaz. Much appreciated.


Nice to seeya again Oc! The girls looks great. You've got to be pretty happy with the grow. Do you see any color change in the trichomes yet?

If you had to do things differently, what do you think you would have changed about your grow? Starting with better soil? Changing the nute schedule? Trimming or training differently? Whatever you want to share would probably help anyone reading.

Trichomes- I have to get a microscope thingey from Radio Shack.
Soil- I'm going to keep working on adjusting the local Patio Soil custom mix.
Nutes- Yes, I'm going to Foxes Farms with the Rusty Trichome schedule.
Pruning- Next time I'm going with the "Less is more" theory and mostly let them do their thing other than stealing the next clones and an emergency topping maybe.
More Ventilation- Still need more fanage exhaust.... And SOON!
Tap Water- I think we're out of rain so we'll try out the 7.8 Ph tap stuff.
Re-potting sooner- Should help keep up momentum, I guess.
Clear out the crap- I had bag seed plants, free seed plants, experimental clones. They take up space and add to "liabilities" for total number of plants.
Remotely locate Fluro Ballasts- Those ballasts inside the 4 foot T-12 lamps make the room rather warm. I may add some wire extensions and relocate them externally in the upper ballast room. For that matter I may even add one more to make it 4 sets of lamps totaling 8 bulbs.

[Dutch Pimp]

Tap Water- I think we're out of rain so we'll try out the 7.8 Ph tap stuff.


a few drops of lemon juice or pickle juice can lower that PH...works for me..:thumbsup:

[Ocotillo]

a few drops of lemon juice or pickle juice can lower that PH...works for me..:thumbsup:

That sounds good Dutch Pimp, I wish it would give a lemon flavor to the buds! Would it? I have the GH Ph kit and Milwaukee digi pen for adjustments.

The big update is we found a nice local shop and in an effort to support the home team we bought a serious fan there. It's a 6" in-line 440 cfm monster, which was priced accordingly. We did a slight reconfiguration with the filter, it lost some top space in the small 2'x2.5'x8' room. I don't think we'll be growing the plants very tall anyway and if so we can always move things around to adjust for future plans.

One more new thing is we stepped up to the plate with the basic three of Fox Farms nutes. The flowering plants got a "normal dose" of 2 tsp and 1tsp even though it's the middle of week 8. I see the Rusty Trichome does not mention to flush before harvest, is this correct? :what: Shouldn't I flush at least a week with only PH'd water? :what:

Next is a plan (subject to change or constructive criticism please) is for a semi active intake which will be the exhaust out of the veg room and into the top of the flower room via a fan. I say semi because it will also have passive intakes at the bottom of both the veg room and flower room for fresh cooler air going in. Each room size is 80 sf, one is tall, other is long.

[raizla]

Everything I've read shows to flush 2 weeks before harvest. The fox farm nutes are mostly organic, so you'd probably be ok, but I still plan on flushing my grow, and I'm using the FF nutes.

Kickass fan dude. I'd love to get something like that, but I fear it'd make too much noise, and I don't really want my visitors to know I'm growing.

It definitely looks like you're upgrading. :thumbsup: Be sure to post pictures of the updated rooms so we can see what what you're working with.

[Ocotillo]

So we made a few minor improvments to the veg room. We added three 42W/2,600 Lumen CFL's in between the plants to enhance side growth. That would be 150W equivelent= 42W. Since it's warm light @ 2,700 K we removed the two "warm" T-12 tubes with cool 6,500 K bulbs. That and we stuck a scrap of mylar along the back wall just to use it somewhere.

Speaking of warm, now the veg room is in diar need of some exhaust ports into the well vented flower section cieling.

After the Fox Farms grow big these things are really taking off! Just look at those pix since last week. Very impressive.


Everything I've read shows to flush 2 weeks before harvest. The fox farm nutes are mostly organic, so you'd probably be ok, but I still plan on flushing my grow, and I'm using the FF nutes.

Good point on the nutes. OK, I plan to do the last 2 or 3 waterings with no nutes, which at that point should be about the last week. Thanks all.

[Ocotillo]

It won't be long now..........................

We also did some fine tuning to the flower power room. Nothing fancy like last time with the personal wind tunnel fan, but hey, they can't all be grand slam home runs! ;)

We added mylar all around the room and two 2,600 Lumen 2,700 Kelvin (soft white) 42 CFL bulbs between plants. I'm hoping that will help the lower and side buds to keep filling in like they've been doing so well.

After that shot of Fox Farm tiger piss and big bloom..... Wow, I can actually see new buds coming out on top of the old buds..... I shit you NOT! This Fox Farm stuff is the bomb yo. I can say the Miracle Grow AP (all purpose) was not bad. Flowering nutes however, those must need to be more specific because there is a night and day difference with this FF brand. The Miracle Grow BB (bloom booster) failed miserably by comparison.

Some of the pix used flash this time. I don't usually like the flash although it really accentuated the massive crystal production. thanks all the the help, advise and in some cases tough love from our fair group. So now, on with the show:

[Ocotillo]

A piece of cake is what was anticipated. In the end the T-12 ballasts got relocated up to the ballast room taking their blistering heat with them. This could apply to any fluro set up. I think I'll show the "step by step" in the lighting chat room and just before and after in here. It cost about $8 each and the third one took 35 minutes to do. I'm sure it'll remove about 10 degrees from the veg (closet) room. I plan to mount these on cookie sheets as heat sinks before venting.

I thought I'd post this due to all the overwhelming response to the log. ;)

[raizla]

Geez man, I can't beleive how big and thick the buds are on those guys. You're going to have an awesome yield! Did you use the full dose of Fox Farm nutes? I did on my last feeding and I'm seeing very slight yellowing/browning at the tips of the leaves. You'd have to look to see it, but it's there. You may be too close to finish to notice it on your plants though, as the leaves begin to yellow naturally at a certain point.

[Ocotillo]

I'm sure it'll remove about 10 degrees from the veg (closet) room.

I was wrong about that 10 degree savings..... Overnight temp went from 93 to 81! :eek: I think that's 12 degrees difference. :detective1: I also removed one of the 42W CFL's since those little suckers get HOT! :cursing:

I still have to make a light proof vent to the top of the flower room. That will be the icing on the cake. :eat:

[Ocotillo]

Did you use the full dose of Fox Farm nutes?

Yes, I gave them the full dose; 2 Tbs of Tiger jizz and 1 Tbs Big Bloom. I'm figuring in a few days will be a week so I'll give one more full dose before going to plain Ph'd water to finish them off. I've had burnt tips all through flower although it didn't seem to hurt anything.

[Ocotillo]

Correction to the below:
Actual dose was only 2 tsp Tiger essence and 1 tsp Big Bloom, a 1/3 dose. I got a new measuring cup and read it wrong the first time. :rolleyes:


Yes, I gave them the full dose; 2 Tbs of Tiger jizz and 1 Tbs Big Bloom. I'm figuring in a few days will be a week so I'll give one more full dose before going to plain Ph'd water to finish them off. I've had burnt tips all through flower although it didn't seem to hurt anything.