Leanin toward 70W Hps.. Need a push

[SmokeMyPiece]

Hey guys, been a devoted reader for a while, mainly in the cab section, but i decided to register :jointsmile: Only reason i stuck to CFLs was to accommodate for heat, but like the title says, i think i can get away with a 70W Hps in my new box. Just usin good bagseed > Taprooted in warm napkin > planted in plastic jello shot cups filled with perlite and poked with holes. i think i can ScrOG 2 plants very low, but do yall think i could get away with this bulb? I dont like readin too much when i go thru these so lets get to it:

Wood Box

(1) x (1.5) x (2) ft.
Flat white painted walls
2 x 4in. PC fans (54 cfm ea.) - not installed yet

This will be my first attempt at a DWC Hydro ScrOG set-up:

Hydro Set-up

3 Gal. Reservoir Tub
10in Air Stone
2-10 Gal. Air Pump

GH Nutes using Lucas formula
-currently using 1/2 strength schultz root nutes (walmart's superthirve..kinda)

PICS
1-almost light proof
2-compared
3-DWC cab
4-last plant of the old box 1x1x1.5 ft (6x23w cfl 2300k 1700 init lum ea)
-almost 3 weeks flower; only female outa 3 and is hermie :/ may just keep her updated in the meantime
5-bout a ft tall

Comments Appreciated :rastasmoke:

[krisk1227]

Yeah the hps will help with the flowering alot. 70 watter is like 47 bucks at home depot/ lowes, heat will increase , but you should be able to manage with fan or if you can vent it. also look for the big cfl they have there 150 watt/equvilent and 2600k good for flowering the combo with boost your buds

[stra8outtaWeed]

you will do better with this LED bulb that is 10 watts than a 70 watt HPS.....LED's make no heat and provide more usable light for photosynthesis than any other lighting source

High Power Hydroponic PAR38 42 LED Grow Light 85 - 260V - eBay (item 390162816610 end time Feb-28-10 21:38:05 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/High-Power-Hydroponic-PAR38-42-LED-Grow-Light-85-260V_W0QQitemZ390162816610QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item5ad7841e62)

any HPS bulb under 250w is not designed for horticultural use..it lacks the spectrums needed!

i would not waste my money on small HPS bulbs not designed for growing....waste of energy also!
:jointsmile:

[metalirock]

nice

[SmokeMyPiece]

Ya kris, ive heard and seen the outcomes of HPS bulbs, and want to try my hand at it :cool: ive only done a cpl soil + all cfl grows b/c i thought the heat would be too much with an HPS, but ive recently come across some 70W grows and i think i can max its efficiency in my cab. 1000bulbs has a 70w bulb for like 6$ and a ballast for 22$ + 10$ shipping :thumbsup: gonna have one fan on the bulb/exhaust, and one for intake; if i can get away with 3" max distance from bulb i think ill be good for the end. current(smaller) box has 6 x23w cfls with 2 fan setup and is completely cold.

stra8outtaWeed
Thanks for the idea :rastasmoke: maybe as supplement lighting, but i was under the impression that 5k lumens per sq foot was the goal for flowering? that light says 500 lumens..

If i have 1.5 Sq Ft, = 7500 lumens should be optimum.
the HPS = 6300 lumens
and i will supplement this with the 6+ CFls i have.


post needs some pics :cool: kinda off topic, but a few shots of the HERM under only CFLS

[SmokeMyPiece]

if doable ill try to start a log

[krisk1227]

I seen a grow with an 70 watt hps and a 100 watt mh for 2 plants and they were very heavily budded so i know it will work..As long as other factors are attended to properly. Also dont be afraid to mix spectrums through complete grow. Most only use hps for flowering, But the sun isnt just red spectrum it is mixed. Just a theory i would apply seeen that proven. Find your comfortable style and perfect it ... Must agree looking into the led when your skills improve and get more seroius would be a great option ,but there price is alittle higher then conventional lighting methods.

[stra8outtaWeed]

the light i mentioned is only $42 i think....screw it into a base and you are set...2 of them and you will do great in a little box:thumbsup:

if you adress the spectrums needed like LED's do they are actually easier to grow with because you are giving the plant light it can use!

Lumens and Lux are measurements of how bright a light source appears to the human eye. Since the human eye is most sensitive to colors plants don't need, and least sensitive to colors plants prefer, Lumens can't be used to accurately compare the plant growing capability of led grow lights.
If a grow light manufacturer rates his grow light output in Lumens they are only telling you how bright it will appear to you and light your room, not how well it will grow your plants. The most accurate unit of measurement for comparing plant lighting is the micro Einstein, which measures how many photons of light strike an area per second.

But, while this is a much better way to estimate a lamp's plant growing ability than Lumens or Lux, it is still very difficult to directly compare two different types of grow lights. All grow lights except the LEDs grow lights emit large amounts of light plants don't use very efficiently, so including that light output in a light's plant growing measurement is misleading.

hope this explains it better!:thumbsup:

[superskunk1]

Hey str8 have you ever purchased something off of that ebay seller you posted the link to???

I ask because i bought a panel from them (to try LED's) and I opened it up to see that it looks like something I can build by visiting the 99 cents store.

Dont get me wrong I believe in LED's but I know they have to be of better quality. Im interested in LED's but dont know where i can get one. If you can inform me (as your grows show how good they are) which LED setup is worth buying?

[SmokeMyPiece]

hmm ive only read up on the common lighting specs usually used in HID type set-ups. (lumens/watts per sq foot ..etc) I have heard LEDs being mentioned more frequently, as well as the negative.. although that does seem to make since. Havnt come across as good an explanation as to why theyre used as that :thumbsup::thumbsup: nicely put. did a simple search and came across an awesome grow with a giant led setup, but im toasted so i forget where:rasta: did you say it screws into a normal socket? guess i need to do some research...good thing i havnt bought the HPS as i have a lil time left before the sprouts will hit the screen :D thanks again for the idea

clf pwnage :/
BOG

[jtsik330]

Yea they do have wall outlets however the small more inexpensive leds on ebay are really insufficient. A 90 watt led may be nice for you:) However I think you got the right idea with the hid. :thumbsup:

[SmokeMyPiece]

Think im with u jt..was almost sold till i searched on ebay n saw the bigger ones... i like the LED idea, but i thought of some concerns..

says theyre like cfls in that theyd need to be close.. so would i have to get two of the 42$(5") LEDs or like u mentioned, the 144$(11") 90w to cover the screen. compared to ballast and a bulb.. which is next concern; how long would LED last? how much to replace? HPS is a simple 7$ bulb fix.

..would like some cool pics under that light tho:hippy:

[khyberkitsune]

I would not recommend the LED panel linked, if only for the fact it is using very narrow-angle LEDs - if those LEDs had about 30 degrees more emission spread, I wouldn't be so adverse to using them - as it is, to get usable results from a T8 bar I have using similar LEDs, I have to hang it almost 4 feet above the plants just to get a patch of light a foot wide. :(

[stra8outtaWeed]

Think im with u jt..was almost sold till i searched on ebay n saw the bigger ones... i like the LED idea, but i thought of some concerns..

says theyre like cfls in that theyd need to be close.. so would i have to get two of the 42$(5") LEDs or like u mentioned, the 144$(11") 90w to cover the screen. compared to ballast and a bulb.. which is next concern; how long would LED last? how much to replace? HPS is a simple 7$ bulb fix.

..would like some cool pics under that light tho:hippy:

50,000 hours...or 10 years of 12/12...5 years of 24/7....10 years of changning bulbs alone will cost you $140 of plus extra energy and cooling. also those HPS cheapo bulbs are waste...i had some of the 150's before in a combo hood with t-5 floros and even all together they would not flower a plant well....that is why i do not like those cheap HPS bulbs because they are not manufactrered with the intent of using them as grow lighting:thumbsup:

i use the same LED bulb in my cloning cab and my buddy wanted to try it to grow with it to see how big he could grow them before he puts them outside..after puting some reflective insulation board making a grow box in his closet he is pleasnatly surprised that 25 watts of LED can grow plants quite well...he is going to send me some photos of them for me to post later for all to see. :jointsmile:

[stra8outtaWeed]

Hey str8 have you ever purchased something off of that ebay seller you posted the link to???

I ask because i bought a panel from them (to try LED's) and I opened it up to see that it looks like something I can build by visiting the 99 cents store.

Dont get me wrong I believe in LED's but I know they have to be of better quality. Im interested in LED's but dont know where i can get one. If you can inform me (as your grows show how good they are) which LED setup is worth buying?

i bought one of those panels originally for my clone box..it lasted about 3 hours.... the bulbs i purchased are working great for me and my friend....and i think they would do very well in a small setup..650nm on the red and 450nm on the blue so they have good spectrum:thumbsup:

[SmokeMyPiece]

Thanks for the input khyber, im interested in all info on the subject :thumbsup: i see what ur saying ..saw someone using the 90W and did notice it was up high, giving a light diameter that still didnt cover the whole plant.

looked up ur grow, nice! ill be watchin that one ;)

so my best bet if using those is a panel of dense LEDs, of the right blue and red nm..

maybe its still a realtively too new technique (at least with mj).. dont wanna have to manufacture my own, nor buy multiples..

Stra8 - i see what your saying about the wasted energy in HID systems, but ive yet to see a LED grow Compare to it.. altho maybe i shouldnt talk too soon and wait for those pics :rastasmoke:

[stra8outtaWeed]

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/181119-led-grow-show.html

check it out! :D

[stra8outtaWeed]

here are 3 plants grown under 2 LED screw base type bulbs

the plants have been vegging for about 6 week in 1 gallon containers

the back plant is approx 18" and the others are about 12- 14 "

the size if his box has increased to 2' x 3' with only 25 watts!:jointsmile:

[SmokeMyPiece]

any good? ill try to get and go LED if its not one of the 'light bright panels' u were talkin bout

225 LED GROW LIGHT PANEL RED BLUE HYDROPONIC LAMP 110V - eBay (item 300400714240 end time Mar-01-10 14:45:26 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/225-LED-GROW-LIGHT-PANEL-RED-BLUE-HYDROPONIC-LAMP-110V_W0QQitemZ300400714240QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item45f1472200)

[khyberkitsune]

any good? ill try to get and go LED if its not one of the 'light bright panels' u were talkin bout

225 LED GROW LIGHT PANEL RED BLUE HYDROPONIC LAMP 110V - eBay (item 300400714240 end time Mar-01-10 14:45:26 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/225-LED-GROW-LIGHT-PANEL-RED-BLUE-HYDROPONIC-LAMP-110V_W0QQitemZ300400714240QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item45f1472200)

13.8 watts, 225 LEDs. No thanks :) Lite-Brite panel.

Loving the pics - that from just 25w, absolutely nice. I've got some guys over on Gardenweb that would totally soil themselves if they saw that - they're in the middle of saying that I'm pretty much wrong when I know I'm right and have tons of laboratory research (both my own laboratory and from other University sources I've collaborated with) and they're still quoting studies and stuff done from the 70s. It's hilarious to watch.

[SmokeMyPiece]

ok, ya i see now. thnks :thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

ok, ya i see now. thnks :thumbsup:

Easiest way to check to see if the panel is really going to be worthwhile, just as an average check, is to divide the wattage by the number of LEDs in the panel. If you get a number less than 0.5 as the answer of that simple equation, it's not worth using.

In this case, the answer is 0.061333 - well below the 0.5 minimum you're looking for.

[SmokeMyPiece]

If i had the money, id go with a nice LED setup but i think im goin HPS in the meantime.. thank yall for the advice:thumbsup: i wanna go 100W but i think thatll be askin for temp probs in the future.. even with 4x50+ cfm fans ea?