Krusty Bucket LED Grow

[khyberkitsune]

So while I wait for my LED modules to arrive, I'll continue detailing my other plans - this one involves the infamous "Krusty Bucket."

The Krusty Bucket idea is simple - two buckets stacked inside of each other, the top bucket has holes drilled into the bottom, and it is filled with your preferred medium (typically expanded clay pebbles.) An air line is run into the bottom bucket and hooked to an air compressor (I have an air stone in mine just to help maintain DO levels,) to provide constant oxygenation to the roots.

This clone is sitting under the same 20w 70:30 blue:red array as the rest of my clones, until my lights come in. Then I'm moving it to a couple of 15w spotlights, 60:40 blue:red vegetative spectrum. I intend on training this plant to make a scrog-style grow, but with slightly different methods which will be detailed as the grow proceeds.

Anyways, have a happy picture of a happy Hindu Skunk in its bucket!

[khyberkitsune]

There is more growth. :) The crown is now well over the edge of the bucket, about 2 inches.

[AquaponicHerb]

I like the plan. Good luck :)

[khyberkitsune]

Changed nutrients today. Due to the design of the bucket, instead of 2.5 gallons, only about 1.25 gallons of nutrient solution is required.

I gave it 7.5mL each of FloraMicro, Gro, and Bloom, and then 3.75mL of Diamond Nectar. pH is approximately 5.5-5.8

Almost 4 inches over the bucket lip. :)

[khyberkitsune]

I forgot to add i will be topping and training this plant. gonna make it HUGE and bushy, then see what can pull off of LED power. Not sure how much LED I will use, yet.

[khyberkitsune]

I redid my support frame and made a small 'room' for the Krusty bucket. I will train the plant to fill this space, and then I will flower.

Lights need to hurry up, I'm sick of waiting due to shipping errors and customs.

[khyberkitsune]

Might as well update while I wait for the lights to come, they are on their way, finally.

I snipped off the axial tip, time to let the plant branch out some. It is almost 200mm tall.

[stra8outtaWeed]

good news...are they on the water...16 days from China to US on ship!:thumbsup:

your plant looks nice also...can't waut to see the rest of the set up:jointsmile:

[khyberkitsune]

Oh, I also forgot to mention, I lined the upper areas of the box (just below the level of the bottom bucket lip) for reflectivity. Only had aluminum foil, but I did a decent enough job.

[khyberkitsune]

good news...are they on the water...16 days from China to US on ship!:thumbsup:

your plant looks nice also...can't waut to see the rest of the set up:jointsmile:

Air freight since it's a fairly light package :)

And just wait, once the lights get here, the setup will be made!

[McLuvin]

Please keep us posted on your grow. As you know I am way into LED's and what they can do. BTW you might want to check out these 14watt panels I have. They are 12x12 and only 1 1/4 inches thick. They make a sweet outer lining for your grow room.

Keep up the good work!

[khyberkitsune]

LIGHTS ARRIVED!!!!!!!

So, I slammed a 120w panel into the almost 2x4 cabinet. I've got 15-18 inches of headroom so plenty of space to trim and train!

Gotta make a second krusty bucket for the larger plant that did not go into the PC case (the runt and the other planned one were of same size so I figured I'll just use those in the PC case.)

[khyberkitsune]

You know I just realized if I want to boost the medical quality I need to find some UVB diodes to drop into my boxes somewhere.

Ah well, no biggie if I can't get any.

[stra8outtaWeed]

just go with this run and see how they turn out...nice to see the place lit up:smokin:

[khyberkitsune]

Krusty Bucket and new DWC bucket sitting happy under the 120w.

250mm for the Krusty bucket, 210mm for the DWC.

[khyberkitsune]

I topped the plants and made those into clones, and raised the buckets.

Now I should begin getting the growth I'm after. I was just waiting for the tops to be sizable enough to clone.

[demoreal]

Sweet little grow. I love Micro Grows. During summer I want to build a 2 or 3 chamber micro room for breeding. Or at least get started on the plans.
Looking forward to seeing how this grow turns out :jointsmile:

[khyberkitsune]

Meh, late update, sorry.

They're bushing out! Almost time to drop these back down!

[BurnhardLonger]

What if you used leds like chritmas lights on your plant?? Is it to hot? I remember playing w/leds young.Ez wiring and no heat ,and dimmable.

[khyberkitsune]

What if you used leds like chritmas lights on your plant?? Is it to hot? I remember playing w/leds young.Ez wiring and no heat ,and dimmable.

Not enough power, typically not right on the money wavelength-wise, either.

Unless they were some ultra-bright 1w diodes, then they might work.

[khyberkitsune]

Check out the explosion of growth in one day!

I have to drop at least the krusty bucket down, the DWC is still fine where it is.

[khyberkitsune]

Yep, lowered it, re-adjusted stuff.

[khyberkitsune]

Tied both down, training is beginning. Should be flowering out in a week or two.

[khyberkitsune]

I know I've been slacking on this, I've been spending more time on the PC case.

They're still vegging but I'm thinking I will probably drop to 12/12 at the end of this week.

[khyberkitsune]

It's the end of week three - I think I'm going to start flowering light cycle tomorrow, so I'll be setting it on the 12/12 schedule tonight.

I decided to make my tie-down job easier, since there's two lips on the side of the bucket, I cut slits in them so I could just hook knotted plant tape into them and be done, less hassle trying to find a place when I have bunches all over, now!

Oh, yea, at three weeks these plants are bigger than anything I had under T5HO and just as dense.

[khyberkitsune]

Still rolling, still bushy. I had to add another 50w panel to help keep up with penetration, so I'm rolling 170w. Let's hope I get as many grams, yea?

[khyberkitsune]

Caught some pH issues - for once the pH dropped hardcore down to 3 instead of the usual climb up as it absorbs nutes.

Little leaf burn but it's resolved :)

And it's starting to show pistils all over.

Will get a picture when they're a bit bigger and easier to see.

[GP73LPC]

thanks for posting...

looking forward to your results :thumbsup:

[khyberkitsune]

The buckets are rolling hardcore! Tiny budsites, not worth picturing yet but maybe in a couple of days. Plants are nice and bushy and healthy (minus the burn which I found out was a combination of too much light + slightly low pH.)

[khyberkitsune]

Plants are doing... okay. The DWC on the right is kinda burned from the LED panel. Even with a fan on it, the burn just happens. I've done what I can to bring the branches down and allow some of the smaller non-sucker ones to come up to thicken the canopy and help distribute the heat from the plants. The Krusty on the left is happy, hardly any burned areas sitting under the added 50w panel. Just to be safe, I'm going to do a medium flush in an hour or so, but first pictures to show you. This is either the light doing this (it only seems to happen at areas closest to the light) or the medium is causing a burn/lockout.

[Coachgee]

Plants are doing... okay. The DWC on the right is kinda burned from the LED panel. Even with a fan on it, the burn just happens. I've done what I can to bring the branches down and allow some of the smaller non-sucker ones to come up to thicken the canopy and help distribute the heat from the plants. The Krusty on the left is happy, hardly any burned areas sitting under the added 50w panel. Just to be safe, I'm going to do a medium flush in an hour or so, but first pictures to show you. This is either the light doing this (it only seems to happen at areas closest to the light) or the medium is causing a burn/lockout.

Nice log. Does the LEDs get that hot? Did you resolve the burn issue yet? Hope you get it under control before its bad...Youll be ok khyberkitsune I know it... I will be following this log faithfuly...

[khyberkitsune]

Nice log. Does the LEDs get that hot? Did you resolve the burn issue yet? Hope you get it under control before its bad...Youll be ok khyberkitsune I know it... I will be following this log faithfuly...

Ah, I needed to update in this section. I knew I forgot something!

Okay, I had to drop from 170w of light to 100w of light. now the box is lit by 2 50w panels, and my PC case plants have joined the two big ones down there.

As far as I can tell, I have resolved the burning issue. Only time will tell, I trimmed off most of the dead material and left a few for 'markers' so I may track the progression of any further burn. The only other thought I had was this was possibly a potassium burn, but as I checked my formulas and mixtures, I realized this isn't likely to be the case.

But everything is still going!

[moody420]

Plants are doing... okay. The DWC on the right is kinda burned from the LED panel. Even with a fan on it, the burn just happens. I've done what I can to bring the branches down and allow some of the smaller non-sucker ones to come up to thicken the canopy and help distribute the heat from the plants. The Krusty on the left is happy, hardly any burned areas sitting under the added 50w panel. Just to be safe, I'm going to do a medium flush in an hour or so, but first pictures to show you. This is either the light doing this (it only seems to happen at areas closest to the light) or the medium is causing a burn/lockout.


How close was your light? I'm just curious because since I've starting using LED's, I've had no problem with heat or burning on the leaves....and 2 of my plants are touching the light right now! I'm kind of thinking it has to be something else unless your LED's are getting that hot!

curious to see how this turns out.....good luck man! :jointsmile:

[khyberkitsune]

How close was your light? I'm just curious because since I've starting using LED's, I've had no problem with heat or burning on the leaves....and 2 of my plants are touching the light right now! I'm kind of thinking it has to be something else unless your LED's are getting that hot!

curious to see how this turns out.....good luck man! :jointsmile:

For the 50w panel in the PC case, the burn didn't occur until about 1-1/2 or 2 inches. For the 120w, about 9 inches. On the other hand, at those same ranges, I can feel the light pounding against my skin (makes it tingle!) so to some degree I'm not entirely surprised. The top-bin diodes are certainly killers.

[Charbud]

LEDS seem to be doing a good job ! i really want to get some going but i really dont want to buy cheap chinese ones that dont work ! are yours 3w bulbs ? 660nm?

Gunna keep tunes in :)

[khyberkitsune]

LEDS seem to be doing a good job ! i really want to get some going but i really dont want to buy cheap chinese ones that dont work ! are yours 3w bulbs ? 660nm?

Gunna keep tunes in :)

Most panels are made in China, pure and simple they've got a stranglehold on the rare-earth market and thus it's almost impossible to find diodes not made in China. Even KingBright, a semi-local LED company, has all diodes made in China and shipped over here.

The diodes themselves are fine, it's the drivers and the panel construction you have to worry about. Most Chinese Drivers just SUCK (bad capacitors usually,) so I had them use Japanese drivers in my panels and I gave them a panel internals design of my own. I've got 460, 630, and 660 in my current generation. The next generation will likely be quad-band, assuming the cost of 420nm diodes drops (they're currently about 2-3x more expensive than any other diode.)

I use 1w diodes, for now. 3w diodes, watt for watt are currently more inefficient than 1w diodes as far as output goes; sure they're brighter but you can get more photon density from three 1w diodes versus a single multi-chip 3w diode.

[khyberkitsune]

I know the light was one issue causing burn on the plants. What I now see is different, and very odd, I've never seen this in all my grows, of any plant. It's not pythium, there's too much oxygen in my system to allow for that and the roots are clean and not slimy to touch. This isn't a lockout judging by the looks of things, so I'm betting on this being a burn. I've typically done a light underfeeding for my plants, so I think the slightly heavier formula I've concocted might be causing the damage and might have exacerbated the light burning.

Per gallon of approximately 250ppm tapwater adjusted to ~5.8:
10mL GH FloraMicro
20mL GH FloraBloom
2.5mL Botanicare Cal-Mag
2.5mL Grotek Pro-Silicate

Otherwise, the plants from the PC case are blooming out nicely (and they're on a lighter solution given their small size, and they exhibit none of the symptoms on the other plants minus the light burn,) and the Krusty bucket is showing more. The DWC not so much, so I'm holding off on pictures of that for the moment.

This is day 3 of week 5 of flowering for the plants from the PC case, day 3 week 4 for the DWC/Krusty. Given the time of flowering, I'm really betting my nutrient solution is causing a problem.

[GP73LPC]

hope you get those nutrient issues worked out... :thumbsup:

i was hoping it wasn't the lights alone...

[demoreal]

That is most def strong. I started my grow using GH. I never went that strong. One good way to tell is to check the ppm before you feed and then check it an hour later and if it goes up you are feeding to much. You are actually using the same nutrients I used the first 4 or 5 weeks of flowering then I changed to botanicare bloom soil/hydro. (no reason other than I had a bottle laying around and wanted to finish my grow with something slightly more on the organic side). Check before you feed and then a bit after and post up what happens. It is for sure to strong. My water starts at 40ppm and I still always put almost half of what you do. (I also use Karma)

[khyberkitsune]

That is most def strong. I started my grow using GH. I never went that strong. One good way to tell is to check the ppm before you feed and then check it an hour later and if it goes up you are feeding to much. You are actually using the same nutrients I used the first 4 or 5 weeks of flowering then I changed to botanicare bloom soil/hydro. (no reason other than I had a bottle laying around and wanted to finish my grow with something slightly more on the organic side). Check before you feed and then a bit after and post up what happens. It is for sure to strong. My water starts at 40ppm and I still always put almost half of what you do. (I also use Karma)

This is what I had figured. I'm betting it might be too strong for the plants, as it was bumped up a bit.

I guess as soon as it comes down to the next res change I'll back off some. I don't have a meter (I get tap samples tested monthly for the ppm on that) and never really relied upon one.

[demoreal]

I would check it for you but i am out of bloom. I have all the others though. If you can not spend much on a meter, I recommend the Hana primo. I bought it with the intention that it would only make it threw one grow and I am now on my second with it. I got it for 17$, more than worth it even if it only lasts one or two grows.
If you want I will check the ppm on the other nutes you use minus the bloom. I bet doubling micro would make up for the test. I bet micro is just as strong as bloom. Let me know and I will test it for you so you can see where you are at.
Having experience with those nutes, I can tell you, you are right and most def burning them / lockout.
edit: I would not wait till next change, as soon as possible water that mix down. It is so strong for your setup.

[Charbud]

Cheers for advice man

[Daddynobucks]

[Per gallon of approximately 250ppm tapwater adjusted to ~5.8:
10mL GH FloraMicro
20mL GH FloraBloom
2.5mL Botanicare Cal-Mag
2.5mL Grotek Pro-Silicate

This seems a little hot to me, I run
4ml micro
8ml Bloom
2-4ml CaMg
2-4ml KB 0-10-10

my tap water is 60 ppm combined is 350-420 ppm
and I run Ph closer to 5.6

I am begining to think the more intense the light the weaker the
feed solution should be?

Daddy
just an old stoner:rastasmoke:

[khyberkitsune]

[Per gallon of approximately 250ppm tapwater adjusted to ~5.8:
10mL GH FloraMicro
20mL GH FloraBloom
2.5mL Botanicare Cal-Mag
2.5mL Grotek Pro-Silicate

This seems a little hot to me, I run
4ml micro
8ml Bloom
2-4ml CaMg
2-4ml KB 0-10-10

my tap water is 60 ppm combined is 350-420 ppm
and I run Ph closer to 5.6

I am begining to think the more intense the light the weaker the
feed solution should be?

Daddy
just an old stoner:rastasmoke:

I've thought about that as well. Something I'll have to test out later.

[Greenmain]

I have been looking around quiet a bit but haven't seen any high power 420nm leds? Where did you find such a beast?

[khyberkitsune]

I have been looking around quiet a bit but haven't seen any high power 420nm leds? Where did you find such a beast?

I design the panels myself. I'm not using 420nm diodes, though. Still too expensive (almost double the price of any other LED)

[Greenmain]

Where did you find such a beast?

I ask again....

[khyberkitsune]

I ask again....

If you want to know where to find these panels, Hydroponic LED grow lights at the highest quality to the lowest prices | Ecogroled (http://www.ecogroled.com) is where you can get them.

[ForgetClassC]

Man those LED's are doing work. There's like no bud growth, but the leaves are covered in tricomes. Very nice.

-C

[khyberkitsune]

Man those LED's are doing work. There's like no bud growth, but the leaves are covered in tricomes. Very nice.

-C

Actually there's bud growth starting - lights come in on 4 hours, come back then and I'll have pics and an update.

[khyberkitsune]

Okay, update! Did some cleaning of dead leaf material, backed off on nutrients on the bigger DWC/Krusty buckets (The micro SWC is a-okay for the most part.)

Pics are of the micro SWC.

[Greenmain]

Most panels are made in China, pure and simple they've got a stranglehold on the rare-earth market and thus it's almost impossible to find diodes not made in China.


The leds in the lights your using are from Bridgelux. Bridgelux is an Osram company.
LED, light source manufacturer of LEDs and arrays for Solid State Lighting applications (http://www.bridgelux.com/)
They are producing the led here in the states and than selling them to china. At least that is my understanding. Therefor making your claim that china is the home of led production, incorrect. In addition Nichia and Osram both make the vast proportion of there product here in the states. I have a friend that is a rep for one and a business acquaintance that is a rep for the other so I have a pretty good idea of what I am talking here.



The next generation will likely be quad-band, assuming the cost of 420nm diodes drops (they're currently about 2-3x more expensive than any other diode.)

You have showed my a link to China made lights "www.ecogroled.com/".
That isn't a link to the 420nm led you were referring 2. In addition Those Prices suck!(90watt led for 299$). You can get the 90watt ufo lights from amazon for 150$ and I got pricing right from china for 90$ each. So what give's? Have you found a 420nm high power led? Or was there just some talk with your "supplier" about using them?:cool:

ANYONE LOOKING TO BUY THESE LED LIGHTS GO HERE.
LG-LED Solutions Technology Limited - Led grow light, commercial light, led bulb (http://www.lgledsolutions.en.alibaba.com)
For get ebay...Don't bother those folks in china if you just want one. But if your looking for 4 or 16 led light contact them and they will give you factory direct pricing.

[Greenmain]

If you "design horticultural light for companies around the globe" why is it that all the lights in your grows are off the shelf products? Surely you would have the technical expertise to design and build a superior light? Any plans?


As you may have noticed I don't lurk much....I just log in and stir the pot :)

[Greenmain]

.......In addition Nichia and Osram both make the vast proportion of there product here in the states. I have a friend that is a rep for one and a business acquaintance that is a rep for the other so I have a pretty good idea of what I am talking here.


That statement is nearly completely incorrect....on a whim I called my buddy after posting......He told me that nearly every Nichia led made comes from Japan. Osram's production very all over the globe....Holland Denmark German(lots in Germany i was told) and here in the states but neither have any really serious presence in china. Basically due to the lack of intellectual property rights. Just wanted to get the right info out.

Still however to say that China has the market cornered is plainly false and incorrect.

Cheers :jointsmile:

[khyberkitsune]

If you "design horticultural light for companies around the globe" why is it that all the lights in your grows are off the shelf products? Surely you would have the technical expertise to design and build a superior light? Any plans?


As you may have noticed I don't lurk much....I just log in and stir the pot :)

For panels I use off-shelf housing, everything else is customized. My pricing sucks, eh? Well, take any other same-wattage panel and let's see which one produces the better yield! You pay for RESEARCH, not marketing.

I DO NOT USE BRIDGELUX DIODES. LOL BRIDGELUX!!!! I've seen KingBrights better than that! And I will still assert that China is the largest LED manufacturer on the globe. Maybe Singapore or Malaysia rivals China. Go attend a JEDEC semiconductor conference and you'll find these things out. Pure and simple, they have the majority of the raw materials required to make current-gen high-output diodes, and they have massive semiconductor fab operations.

And I do have a design of my own. That's not for the commercial market, that's for NASA only as it is designed SPECIFICALLY to meet their requirements for size and weight and thermal regulation. I'll stick with pre-existing solutions and modify them to perform far better for my regular market. For larger horticultural operations, such as the NFT channel sheds that I work on, I made a custom solution for lighting that as well. Simpler than what's available on the market, and cheaper to implement, and still maintains IP-65 waterproof rating.

As for the link to 420nm, you need to clarify a bit more. And I knew you were dead wrong about Nichia. You think I haven't talked with their technicians already while considering which diodes I'd want in my panels? Osram's diode wafers come directly from China, BTW. That's pre-package assembly.

I never said China has the market cornered. I said China is the biggest manufacturer. There's a total difference between the two statements.

I don't see much of a calling-out, here. I just see some trolling that makes me laugh. I wonder how long you'd last on candlepower?

[khyberkitsune]

So we're about a week away from harvest with these two plants. I've clipped off all the dead/dying stuff, and took a couple of plain-flash pictures for you to see for yourselves. Overall, for a badly-burned couple of plants, they still produced some decent-looking herb, despite the overall small size of the buds. As I was cleaning the dead stuff away, the ever-familiar smell of the Hindu Skunk was quite strong on the scissors.

Next time - more airflow. I've built a smaller box for a couple of plants for exactly that purpose and you might see a journal on that, should I decide to fill that box with cannabis.

[khyberkitsune]

I had harvested what had came form the PC box - MOLDED. :(

Guess I'll be waiting for the other two buckets to finish, even though they had the same burn problems. My other plants in flower, including my new 5-site and the two mothers, are not exhibiting the problem since I vastly improved the airflow in the closet by removing the big box I built (that's outside sheltering the partial-sun plants, now,) and re-organizing my plants, which allowed me to put in a fan.

Consider this grow log finished and be on the lookout for the new grow log, which will actually be posted in the grow log section - I will update this one final time once I harvest the Krusty and DWC buckets. The yield will suck on those but the new plants should do FAR better with the new setup.

[turtle420]

I love this thread. :)

[khyberkitsune]

I love this thread. :)

I was happy until I started burning the plants.

Ah well, the next grow will be much better, I can already tell.

[khyberkitsune]

June 20th. Two more weeks to go, then I'm hashing out those plants.

Journal has been created, it's linked in the bottom of my sig.