Fox Farm Soil Question

[madseason]

Hey all, new here and first time grower. I've learned a lot through this site and hope to learn more.



I have two soils. FF Light Warrior and FF Ocean Forest. I started my germinated seeds into the FF Light Warrior and want to know a couple of answers.



a) When transplanting into a 1 gallon container from the plastic cup do I keep using Light Warrior? Do I mix Light Warrior and Ocean Forest? Or do I transplant directly into Ocean Forest



b) When do I transplant into the 1 gallon? My sprouts are about 4 days and 6 hours old.



c) Since Ocean Forest has earthworm castings, bat guano, and micronutrients, do I grow entirely through the soil or do I need to buy separate nutes?



O and here are the pics of my 4 day white widow sprouts. Please criticize since I'm thinking they're not growing fast enough. O and the pics are pretty bad because of the light and I couldn't take good angled pictures.



http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2553/005nwfh.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/88/001isf.jpg

[lampost]

IME FFOF is a little hot sometimes for small plants. I planted directly to it from clone and had some stunting and nute-burn problem.

If I were you I'd go 1/2 LW and 1/2 FFOF when you pot up to 1 gallon. When you repot a couple weeks after that, you can use full-on FFOF.

You shouldn't need any nutes until about 3-4 weeks with FFOF. If you're using LW/FFOF then I'm not sure. You probably hit them with VERY weak grow nutes after 2 weeks or so. I wouldn't do more than 1/4 of the moderate dose at that time. I just gave nute-stress so some plants on their very first feeding (end of wk 1 of flower). They are the same clones that had trouble in FFOF. It was a super hot batch!! I used test strips to determine the nitrate in my runoff. It was off the charts, over 200 ppm, probably around 400! For reference, my healthiest plant has about a 20 ppm nitrate runoff (when fed!!).

So yeah FFOF can be highly variable. I think this excess nitrogen could cause me problems now that I'm flowering.

[WashougalWonder]

I
So yeah FFOF can be highly variable. I think this excess nitrogen could cause me problems now that I'm flowering.

I disagree. I find that it is the most consistent soil I have used ever.

[cigarettes42]

i agree with wash. i have planted seeds and planted clones in ocean forrest without a problem. if i were you i would just use 100% ffof in your transplant. also since this soil has worm casting, guano and other things you do not need to fertilize for a while. i would however use ferts during the flower phase for sure cause in veg your plant prolly has used up the stuff in the soil.

[Rusty Trichome]

Light Warrior is a seedling/cutting mix. Most seedling mixes are a finer texture, smaller perlite (if any) and if applicable, have softer nutrients.
I'd only use it for seedlings or rooting cuttings. Not enough body to support fast-growing root systems.
Ocean Forest is a beefier/heavier blend for the growth stage 'long-haul', and shouldn't need additional nutrients for nearly a month.
Mixing the two will benefit nothing. I'd go from the one cup Light Warrior, to the gallon Ocean Forest.


They are the same clones that had trouble in FFOF. It was a super hot batch!! I used test strips to determine the nitrate in my runoff. It was off the charts, over 200 ppm, probably around 400! For reference, my healthiest plant has about a 20 ppm nitrate runoff (when fed!!).
So yeah FFOF can be highly variable. I think this excess nitrogen could cause me problems now that I'm flowering.
Please post a link to ALL the test strips you use, and how you use them. Your numbers and observations seem off.

You're the same member that earlier last week was saying the buffers in his FF soil were the cause of your plant's problems, aren't you? Looking back at your comments, perhaps, you should contact the FF company and complain. They seem to be targeting you for all their crappy batches.

Rarely do I hear of anyone having any major problems with their line of products, and I would seriously trust their QC over the insight from a relatively inexperienced grower. They have a large company that's been doing this crap for many years. If they were as bad as you would like us to believe, they would have gone out of business years ago. (it's likely not their products that are lacking ;) )

[roostertail]

I have used fox farm for over one year, it is the best ive used.

you can transplant directly into ffof soil. you must have proper ph of your water.
adjust ph after nutes added to water. always do this.

once your cuttings have roots they should be put into your final container.

use fox farm Big Bloom 2 tbl per gallon for first 2 to 3weeks
then use ff grow big and big bloom 2 weeks and so on
go to

FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company (http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/)
go to soil feeding schedule
FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company (http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/feedingfox.html)
I followd this schedule exaclty for the last year and have had incredible results
use the whole system. you will not be unhappy.
also you can call their 1-800 number and ask questions from the pros who make it.

note tiger bloom used full strenght at first can burn edges of leaves a bit so i backed it down to 1 tbl per gallon until plants got used to it then full strenght at the last 4weeks.
this system produces incredible oils and resins also massive multiple branches so dont get greedy and put to many in the room you wont be able to get to the back of the room.
hope this helps
may the FOX BE WITH YOU!

[roostertail]

you dont have to use ff nutes
but if you do and follow their system youll see the huge diference
they have over 20years experience they arnt trying to sell you stuff you dont need obviously this system they have has been tested and works incredible.
so unless you have tried the whole system?
then you dont know what your talknig about
and im not a newbie i did my homework the last 20years

[lampost]

Light Warrior is a seedling/cutting mix. Most seedling mixes are a finer texture, smaller perlite (if any) and if applicable, have softer nutrients.
I'd only use it for seedlings or rooting cuttings. Not enough body to support fast-growing root systems.
Ocean Forest is a beefier/heavier blend for the growth stage 'long-haul', and shouldn't need additional nutrients for nearly a month.
Mixing the two will benefit nothing. I'd go from the one cup Light Warrior, to the gallon Ocean Forest.


Please post a link to ALL the test strips you use, and how you use them. Your numbers and observations seem off.

You're the same member that earlier last week was saying the buffers in his FF soil were the cause of your plant's problems, aren't you? Looking back at your comments, perhaps, you should contact the FF company and complain. They seem to be targeting you for all their crappy batches.

Rarely do I hear of anyone having any major problems with their line of products, and I would seriously trust their QC over the insight from a relatively inexperienced grower. They have a large company that's been doing this crap for many years. If they were as bad as you would like us to believe, they would have gone out of business years ago. (it's likely not their products that are lacking ;) )

Dude, quit fuckin' treating me like I can't read a goddamn test strip or pH meter!!

OK, I've got a fuckin' masters degree, spent countless hours in chemistry labs, water chemistry labs, etc in college. I'm not a fuckin' idiot OK. I know how to read pH meters, test strips... I know how to keep them clean and maintain them... washing off my pH pen... and keeping it stored in neutral solution. I know how to calibrate shit... I calibrated high-tech sampling equipment for a GODDAMN living for 4 years OK!!

I an using Aquarium Test strips "6 strips in One Strip, Quick Dip". Appears to be made by Jungle? My test strips are fine bro!! I've been using them to verify readings on my pH meter... pH is good.... I have faith in them. If you don't that's your problem.

I'll take pictures for you next time OK!

The fuckin' nitrates were OFF THE CHART! Probably because I planted fresh into FFOF without watering/flushing it first. That might be where my problem was.

I'd like to see how FFOF is produced. I don't think it has nearly the Quality Control that you guys all suspect. This gives rise to batches that are much more nutrient-laden than others!! If you put a clone in there that doesn't really like/need much nutrients, like Headband Kush.... then yeah you'll see some problems!!

Do some more research. There are tons of people who say they've had problems with it being too hot! Look at posts on Rollitup... other forums. It happens.

Just because a few of the people on here didn't have problems...... it does happen. If you've got a hearty strain then you may be OK. All my plants recovered and are doing fine... but there was a 1-2 week period where the plants started in my 2nd bag of FFOF (the hot one) had some nute-burning/pH/stunting issues. After they slowly grew big enough they seemed OK.

[lampost]

Shit, sorry to lose it man...

But trust me I'm pretty good at measuring things and such:D

[Rusty Trichome]

Whatever. I've been doing this shit a while, but regardless...you are the one having all these problems, not me. I am pointing out that FF is a quality product, but you keep wanting to blame the soil, which even a newbie can sucessfully use with a little patience and a little knowledge. Perhaps you got a bad bag. But if you did, why are you beating a dead horse with these continuing complaints? Get a new bag of different soil. <doh> You want excuses...blame me, as I'm not going to keep going through this bullshit with you.

I asked to see your exact test strips, you offer lame credentials that haven't yet helped you figure this out. But as defensive as you get, and as much resistance you show twords any possibility that it's not the soil...it isn't helping your situation now, is it?

Bummer I couldn't help. Good luck. :thumbsup:

[stra8outtaWeed]

not trying to stir shit here...but i use the FFOF straight for my clones and i primarily grow OG SFV and it is touchy about ph and nutes and since switching to FF my clones are awesome and i find it very uniformly made compared to other soils i have used! :hippy:

[lampost]

Whatever. I've been doing this shit a while, but regardless...you are the one having all these problems, not me. I am pointing out that FF is a quality product, but you keep wanting to blame the soil, which even a newbie can sucessfully use with a little patience and a little knowledge. Perhaps you got a bad bag. But if you did, why are you beating a dead horse with these continuing complaints? Get a new bag of different soil. <doh> You want excuses...blame me, as I'm not going to keep going through this bullshit with you.

I asked to see your exact test strips, you offer lame credentials that haven't yet helped you figure this out. But as defensive as you get, and as much resistance you show twords any possibility that it's not the soil...it isn't helping your situation now, is it?

Bummer I couldn't help. Good luck. :thumbsup:

Thanks. I'm actually not having problems anymore because I figured it out pretty much right away. I never blamed the soil. I was just asking questions. If I remember right, you're the one who suggested that they possibly left the buffers out of that bag.... check that other thread.

I was debating the exact same thing before I started this grow: FFOF straight VS. FFOF/LW. I can see now why some people like to use FFOF/LW. I will probably do FFOF/Happy Frog. I didn't flush my FFOF when I transplanted to 5 gals.... so it was extra "hot" the first few waterings.

Here's the test strips...

Amazon.com: JUNGLE 6-N-1 TEST STRIPS 100CT: Kitchen & Dining (http://www.amazon.com/JUNGLE-6-N-1-TEST-STRIPS-100CT/dp/B001EUJOK2/ref=pd_sbs_k_6)

I offer lame credentials and get defensive because you posted 3-4 times implying that I was somehow screwing up the process of taking readings. Just a little frustrating since I'm probably more precise than most soil growers out there with my readings.

Peace

[WashougalWonder]

Settle down folks. Please.

Usually any potting mix is made by using the big front end loader to put in scoops (yards at a time) into a conveyor system that takes it to a mixing hopper. There some person from outside the country without a green card (just kiddin' round) dumps in a 100 pound sack of vermiculite a 50 pound sack of sand, 20 pounds of ammonium nitrate, and so on.

Depending on whether he got laid or just got drunk last nite will have a direct effect on the mix. No mixing long enough after dumping all that stuff in and sending out to the bagger will give you a bad batch.

So, Go check if they have green cards or not. Not sure if that will make a difference, but I hope to hell it lightened things up here.

[Rusty Trichome]

madseason: I hope this thread had answered your questions. Sorry it devolved like this. Seems to happen more frequently these days, as summer season approaches. Must be in the air.

lampost: Looking back, sometimes I type too fast. I have a profound respect for higher education and I didn't mean to say your credentials are lame, but did mean they are lame in regards to growing cannabis. I hope you see the difference and accept my appology. :cool:

Now, about your experience with 'precise' testing and calibration. The main reason for asking about your testing, is that the aquarium test kits and test strips and dependant on color-coded results. The tinting of the runoff skews the results. Sometimes, not even in the ballpark. With your credentials, I'd have thought you would understand this.
You didn't by chance set (calibrate) your ph pen to the runoff results, did you? (just curious)

I was being facetious about the missing buffers, and was offering you a way out of this conversation gracefully. :jointsmile: Doubtful bag was bad from the factory, as most companies have a QC to prevent any product inconsistency, and keeping the customer from killing all their plants. (bad for business) A more reasonable possibility is that if the soil is bad, it was was a victim of inadequate or long term storage, overmoistened, stored in direct sun...whether at the retailers or in your backyard.

[pappabear]

FFOF rocks, but your right no nutes for at least 3 weeks. I also add 50% perlite and couldn't be happier with the results. And your seedlings look fine for only a couple of days out, They're gonna grow fast have fun.

[lampost]

RT: Seriously? Questioning my ability to measure pH again? FYI the runoff was from a flush and was clear...

I think that question I asked about water temperature recently - the retarded one - is sticking in your mind;)

And you will soon see just how lame my credentials are when it comes to cannabis.

ORIGINAL POSTER: You'll be fine either way. Growth rates will just be slightly different... it'll likely be better for the FFOF, but nobody posts about FFOF/LW being too hot. Good luck!

[dirtnap411]

I've been told that OF was too hot for my seedlings, and was recommended Happy Frog, so far I like it, ph runs about 6.5, except the stuff I added coco to, that ran at 7 till I flushed it a bit, but all in all it's good soil, and nice and mild.

[Rusty Trichome]

RT: Seriously? Questioning my ability to measure pH again? FYI the runoff was from a flush and was clear...
I wonder what the true levels are then. Flushes remove what you're looking for. Oh well...you're the boss.


I think that question I asked about water temperature recently - the retarded one - is sticking in your mind;)
No. I generally stick to the subject whenever possible. If I had questions about your temps I'd have said so.


And you will soon see just how lame my credentials are when it comes to cannabis.I'll anxiously await you successes, but unless your credentials include plant biology, horticulture or the like...your credentials mean nothing other than the fact you can read.

Unsubscribed.

[HymroD]

Settle down folks. Please.

Usually any potting mix is made by using the big front end loader to put in scoops (yards at a time) into a conveyor system that takes it to a mixing hopper. There some person from outside the country without a green card (just kiddin' round) dumps in a 100 pound sack of vermiculite a 50 pound sack of sand, 20 pounds of ammonium nitrate, and so on.

Depending on whether he got laid or just got drunk last nite will have a direct effect on the mix. No mixing long enough after dumping all that stuff in and sending out to the bagger will give you a bad batch.

So, Go check if they have green cards or not. Not sure if that will make a difference, but I hope to hell it lightened things up here.

Not sure what the person doing the manual labor's immigration status has to do with the soil...but at least your post was descriptive.

Pe@ce,

HymroD