The Suck-it Bucket (NEW)

[AquaponicHerb]

Ok. The way this thing works:

The bucket has a pot inside of it with 5/8inch perforations on the bottom only; it fits a perfect seal inside the bucket. See first picture....

Super oxygenated venturi-driven water trickles in from the top through 1/2" tube when my timer kicks in. A venturi is better than an airstone for many reasons, we can get to that later. Also the oxygenated water has to feed in from the top in order for the process to work properly. This creates pressurization inside the fittings starting a countdown...

The waterline fills all the way to the top of bucket, fully soaking the entire lavarock filled pot to the rim with superoxygenated nutrient solution. It fills 1 inch from top of bucket, submerging all of the grow medium, actually the whole plant up to the stem is in the nutrient solution. Then the magic happens.

Right when it gets to an inch from the top of the bucket and looks like its going to overflow, a powerful snap and rumble can be heard from inside the bucket.

Through fittings and the physics of fluid, a siphon forms in the bottom of the bucket, and through a extremely powerful vacuum the water is rapidly sucked out through the bottom of the bucket, with approximately 40 lbs of pulling force.
The water level will quickly recede back into the depths of the bucket.

This creates of a surge of air being drawn in from the surface of the medium all the way through root system, the medium, down through the 5/8inch holes, into the the root chamber below the pot in the bottom of the bucket, and finally out through the bell-fitting in the very bottom of the bucket.

Basically it works like connecting a vacuum to the bottom of a plant container, and sucking air through it via a 1 inch hole in the center-bottom.

Everyone is familiar with flood and drain. One of the reasons this works so well is as the water leaves the pots and the beds drain, new air gets pulled into the pots like a piston. Now imagine this concept x10 and much more often, each time after a drain so there is always a fresh coat of nutrient solution on the roots to protect them as air blows over them through the entire medium.

When the timer is on, every 3 minutes the bucket fills and empties drawing enormous amounts oxygen directly through the entire root system.

[AquaponicHerb]

If this thread is popular I will make a DIY step by step.

[GetThisOrDie]

That thing is cool. Id love to see a DIY so I can try one out and experiment with it.

[AquaponicHerb]

just a quick one I drew. I may add more components or airstones not sure yet. the venturi produces a nice frothy foamlike water that is far better than airstones and they dont need to be replaced, unit opened etc....

[drudown11]

ill be happy to try it out! Sounds like a damn science experiment too, so im down. If you post A DYI i will definatly going to give it a try. So would this be considered a aeroponic system or what?

So what exactly is this venturi thing and what makes them so superior to airstones?

[AquaponicHerb]

heres first steps, i layed it out
the venturi is very complex, we can get into that later

its basically a waterline that has a shaped interior designed to draw in air. The air bubbles are mixed with the solutions and form almost an aerosol. The water gets so oxygenated that it literally oxidizes on contact if you get it right. Once u get to a certain level of oxygen, the water starts to foam though. I'm still checking out these thresholds.

Anyway here goes the first few steps. Just know bell siphons are a bitch and dont blame me if it floods your place. This is a strong suction, 40 pounds based on 5 gallons of water, but my plant is growing 2 inches a day and the leaves are getting gigantic.

1. drill hole in center of bottom of bucket with drillsaw this is a 1" size

2. install these fittins. hell i dont even know what they are i found them at home depot. they are just basically 1" screw in male on 1 side with 1" female hole on other. then its got this metal screw thing and a rubber seal. i found this is the most best fitting possible through aquaponics, i just wish i knew what the hell it was.

3. this is what will later be the siphon. a 3" pvc pipe with an end cap. I use a metal file and grind little v shaped teeth. you can make as teeth as you want. these teeth allow water to pass through and ensure when the bucket drains its drained from the lowest point ensuring a full drain. dont cut the pipe until you know the exact distance it needs to support the pot. the bell siphon acts as a pillar to hold some of the weight of the pot, lavarock, and massive would-be tree

4. this is a pot, it fits perfectly in the 5 gallon bucket, its very generic i got it at home depot. it fits perfectly into the 5 gallon bucket. I guess any one would do but it must be sturdy, and be a snug fit. let me know if this is an issue i might be able to find out the brand pot

5. then i wrap it with electric tape. this thing has to be sealed airtight or it wont work right. these are the first steps, stay posted.

note:

by the way creating a bell siphon, and understanding that technology can make you a hydroponic wizard. you could flood a 300 gallon bed in 30 seconds or drain it just as fast, this has so many applications and the efficiency is off the charts as it is a mechanical action and requires no timers.

[AquaponicHerb]

it helps to understand the concept of the venturi. here is a second chamber i made to micronize the bubbles, and keep them in the water for longer. they are held in there like a blender. lots of them pop and smash, i can hear it so I know they are saturating.

watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUd4WxjoHKY

[AquaponicHerb]

built a new drive for my entire system. it uses a vacuum, but i inject air into the line so its even more powerful. it doubles its pattern, so its a double venturi pvc.

check it out

[AquaponicHerb]

built a new drive for my entire system. it uses a vacuum, but i inject air into the line so its even more powerful. it doubles its pattern, so its a double venturi pvc.

plant is growing insanely fast, faster than any hydro ive seen. 2 inches or more every 24hours

i have break points to smash the bubbles as well:thumbsup:

[AquaponicHerb]

I am doing some research on data done by controlled studies, and some other concepts to conclusively prove this.

An efficiently designed venturi can provide efficiency off the charts compared to any number of airstones. Also it provides 100% saturation in seconds and penetrates the entire systems water not just the water under the airstones.

drawbacks:

noisy
expensive
hard to make; must be custom-modified for hydro setups in master systems because of pressure issues with pumping upwards to beds
if there is any kind of compromise within the valve itself due to particulates, a possible leak may occur; this can be avoided with certain redundancies

stay posted, i will have your info for you man....:rastasmoke:

[AquaponicHerb]

My Venturi based Oxygenation drive with saturation chamber is much more efficient than any airstone. More Oxygen gets to the roots because of the penetrating characteristics, and it does not break apart and clog overtime like an airstone. This is part of the my buckets feature.


I cited some different sites.


1. FOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION OF THE UNITED NATIONS,
Fisheries and Aquaculture Department
link here: Chapter 21 Aeration and Oxygenation in Aquaculture


In order to minimize oxygen consumption devices are needed which ensure the most perfect absorption of oxygen. The operating principle of these is the same as that of aeration devices, but in order to increase the contact time between the gas and the water some technical modifications are needed.

One is bubbling oxygenation where the oxygen gas comes in contact with the water by breaking into bubbles. The rate of oxygen dilution depends mainly on the depth of the water layer, the length of travel of bubbles in the water body and the rate of oxygen feeding. Higher efficiency can be achieved by decreasing the bubble size, thus the contact time and the contact surface increases. But the decrease of bubble size needs a significant quantity of extra energy, and coagulation of bubbles also can happen. The efficiency of oxygen bubbling can be increased by counterflow of oxygen and water (Figure 13/a). Undissolved oxygen can be collected and circulated back to the oxygen supply system (Figure 13/b), or a closed system can be constructed in which oxygen and water are continuously mixed (Figure 13/c).


2. Article in a fishing and boating magazine
link here: Guide to Aeration (http://www.fishing-boating.com/articles/guide.htm)


SIZE AND AMOUNT OF AIR BUBBLES

Take a look at at the air bubbles produced by an aquarium aerator. Watch how quickly the bubbles rise to the surface. They provide little aeration, but are aesthetically pleasing to watch. Bubbles must remain contacting the water, if they are to do the job properly. A good rule of thumb is: The smaller the bubble, the longer it will remain suspended in water to dissolve.


A Lesson in Air Bubbles by Bob Heideman


The smaller the air bubble, the more slowly it will rise, giving it more time to dissolve in the water. Due to the higher density of salt water, air bubbles are usually smaller in salt water than in fresh water.A large 20mm bubble has a volume of 4.19 cm3, and a surface area of 12.6 cm2.You could make 260 small 3mm bubbles from the large bubble. They would have a total surface area of 83.6 cm2. This is 6.6 times the surface of the 20mm bubble. The small bubbles, can theoretically aerate 6.6 times as much water with the same amount of air.


3. Article in Environmental Fluid Mechanics
link here: SpringerLink - Journal Article (http://www.springerlink.com/content/w172rg362h301r04/)


Abstract The concentration of dissolved oxygen is an important indicator of water quality because aquatic life lives on the dissolved oxygen in the water. Aeration can increase dissolved oxygen when levels become deficient. Hydraulic structures can significantly improve dissolved oxygen levels by creating turbulent conditions where small air bubbles are carried into the bulk of the flow. Recent researches have focused on developing measurement and predictive techniques for oxygen transfer at hydraulic structures to maintain and enhance water quality. However, reviewing existing studies on aeration performance of hydraulic structures, it seems that there are not too many studies on venturi aeration. The present paper shows applications of venturi principle to water aeration systems. The aeration characteristics of venturi nozzle, venturi conduit and venturi weir are analyzed. The results indicate that venturi aeration might contribute significantly to air entrainment and aeration efficiency. Therefore, venturi device can be used as highly effective aerator in aeration processes.


4. "Water Quality Products" Commercial water filtration, in reference to Ozone
link here: Ozone, Oxygen: Transfer into Water (http://www.wqpmag.com/Ozone-Oxygen-Transfer-into-Water-article6112)


Conclusions

The venturi was the best method of transfer, but this was a known going into the study. This method is under pressure and the venturi is also an efficient method of transfer. This did however prove some good points on how efficient the ozone generators produced ozone. The CD system produced about four to five times the ozone that the UV system produced. As stated earlier, the CD system had readings of .49 ppm compared to .1 ppm of the UV system.


5. United States Patent
link here: Bubble generation for aeration and other purposes (http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20100107ptan20100002534.php)


This invention relates to the generation of fine bubbles.

BACKGROUND

Bubbles of gas in liquid are frequently required in many different applications and usually, but not exclusively, for the purpose of dissolving the gas in the liquid. Like any industrial process, it is generally desired that this be done in the most efficient manner possible which, in the case of dissolving the gas in the liquid, does not involve the bubble reaching the surface of the liquid and releasing the gas there without it having been dissolved. Ideally, the bubbles should not reach the surface before all the gas in them has dissolved. It is widely recognized that one way to achieve efficiency is to reduce the size of the bubbles. The surface area to volume ratio of a smaller bubble is higher, and dissolution happens much more rapidly. Moreover, the surface tension of a small bubble means that the gas pressure inside the bubble is relatively much higher than in a large bubble, so that the gas dissolves more rapidly. Also small bubbles rise more slowly than large bubbles, and this provides more time for gas transport from the bubble to the surrounding liquid. Furthermore, they coalesce less quickly so that larger bubbles, that rise to the surface faster, are less quickly formed.





I still use a few airstones in my reservoir but its overkill; I reoxygenate and direct the spent water so it spins my reservoir, not to mention my "Suckit Bucket" provides a supercharged siphon-surge every 3 minutes when timers are on that mixes it like a cauldron.

:rastasmoke:

[ForgetClassC]

Oh and for those that don't know what the Venturi Effect is it is when a medium(has to have fluid like properties, AKA air, water, ect.) and when this medium is pressed through a smaller opening than it has been traveling through, it compresses this medium, then when it reaches the other side, it expands increasing its speed.

That should help some people, lol.

-C

[AquaponicHerb]

yea that does help. so what you think man? I mean all I've done is research the best way to get oxygen to the roots and still have a medium so I can grow trees.

Thinking about a DIY

[yeeee510]

hey do you think would be benefitial to some plants to first store my water in a simple bubbler tank or bucket or something over night or for a couple days before watering in a soil application?

[AquaponicHerb]

you should aerate it 48 hours in advance if you do not treat your water

other than that aerate it really aggressively about 20 minutes before you feed plants. it will help to oxygenate, kill vocs, mix nutrients, and you have more control over the water temperature.

[Prodaytrader]

I'm so confused. You always put too much information. Your a mad scientist. It looks like the system requires you to completly seal off the plant from the roots. All those layers look like they are creating an air tight seal, is that correct? My second question is more about the venturi's. That is something entirely seperate then the system you designed right? Where did you get those things? Could they be used by themselves in other grows to get better results then air stones?

One more thing, since you seem to be an ebb and flow expert, why do you run your timer every 3 minutes? I just built an E&B setup and was curious about watering times. I was setting the timer to 12 minutes. It only takes 20 seconds to fill my tub and maybe 10 seconds to empty it. I use 3" netpots filled with hydroton and a neoprene collar on top. How often should I set my timer?

[ForgetClassC]

I think it is an awesome idea, but I feel that a nice big DWC with a large amount of hydroton will do the same, seeing as the res is filled with oxygen rich solution.

-C

[Prodaytrader]

I have been reading more on the venturi injectors. Looks like they use them in hot tubes and pools but the price is kind of steep. I'm seeing 100 to 200 dollars just for the valve and to top it off it looks like nothing more then a funnel shaped T. At any rate I would could easily incorporate something like this in my grow but I wont if I cant get that venturi injector for under 20 bucks or build something similar.

[AquaponicHerb]

I was gone for awhile did not see these posts. To answer your question Venturis are one of the best if not the best aeration possible depending on variables.

Venturis are expensive but you can make one from simple around the house fittings. If you get the shape right it will draw air in through a vacuum and mix it with the water in a microfine bubble mist. The solution gets aerated instantly and roots can take in nutrients more quickly and in larger amounts.

The venturi is seperate from the bucket, however it is part of the suckit bucket system or setup; very good question too. The airtight seal allows for roots to hang in air aeroponically and still be in 100 % humidity so as not to die. The flood and drain times are increased to bring in more air to the dome.

Clarification on flood and drain. My system turns on 5 times for 15 minutes a night however sometimes more do to dome efficiency increases. My system uses a proprietary fitting called an autosiphon which floods the bucket every 3 minutes while pumps are on; it is an auto-flood self pulsing type effect. To answer the question for your particular setup you should flood 4-5 times during lights-on. Its not dangerous to flood more, just that many say it does not make a difference because the plant feeds mostly during lights on.

Please let me know how it goes I would love to see how it works. I have had a hard time actually writing up a DIY on some of these because I am selfish and lazy but I am going to try do something after I release my next movie.

[waterdog]

yea that does help. so what you think man? I mean all I've done is research the best way to get oxygen to the roots and still have a medium so I can grow trees.

Thinking about a DIY

TREE's???? Come on we ARE talking about INSIDE...Trees thats a good one!!!!Show us your "tree's"......Maybe "shrubs" NOT trees.Tree's have stalks the size of 2 litre bottles....I'm sure inside tree's are different.

[waterdog]

TREE's???? Come on we ARE talking about INSIDE...Trees thats a good one!!!!Show us your "tree's"......Maybe "shrubs" NOT trees.Tree's have stalks the size of 2 litre bottles....I'm sure inside tree's are different.

Just ribbin you aquaponic!!!! We love your input on growing... This is the place to share ideas and we appreciate all of yours! Tree's inside... Thats a good one:D

[CovertCarpenter]

...the best weed I've ever had (and I do mean ever) was from an Edmonton Wizard who only grew four plants per year, but they averaged 9' tall, and had colas the size of footballs.

He was doing indoor, with outdoor-veg-type-timings, so that after a full year, the yield was insane... (and incredible density). Not sure how many lights he had on 'em, but it was lots.

Trees. Mmmmmmmmm.

[medicinegivers]

Ok. The way this thing works:

The bucket has a pot inside of it with 5/8inch perforations on the bottom only; it fits a perfect seal inside the bucket. See first picture....

Super oxygenated venturi-driven water trickles in from the top through 1/2" tube when my timer kicks in. A venturi is better than an airstone for many reasons, we can get to that later. Also the oxygenated water has to feed in from the top in order for the process to work properly. This creates pressurization inside the fittings starting a countdown...

The waterline fills all the way to the top of bucket, fully soaking the entire lavarock filled pot to the rim with superoxygenated nutrient solution. It fills 1 inch from top of bucket, submerging all of the grow medium, actually the whole plant up to the stem is in the nutrient solution. Then the magic happens.

Right when it gets to an inch from the top of the bucket and looks like its going to overflow, a powerful snap and rumble can be heard from inside the bucket.

Through fittings and the physics of fluid, a siphon forms in the bottom of the bucket, and through a extremely powerful vacuum the water is rapidly sucked out through the bottom of the bucket, with approximately 40 lbs of pulling force.
The water level will quickly recede back into the depths of the bucket.

This creates of a surge of air being drawn in from the surface of the medium all the way through root system, the medium, down through the 5/8inch holes, into the the root chamber below the pot in the bottom of the bucket, and finally out through the bell-fitting in the very bottom of the bucket.

Basically it works like connecting a vacuum to the bottom of a plant container, and sucking air through it via a 1 inch hole in the center-bottom.

Everyone is familiar with flood and drain. One of the reasons this works so well is as the water leaves the pots and the beds drain, new air gets pulled into the pots like a piston. Now imagine this concept x10 and much more often, each time after a drain so there is always a fresh coat of nutrient solution on the roots to protect them as air blows over them through the entire medium.

When the timer is on, every 3 minutes the bucket fills and empties drawing enormous amounts oxygen directly through the entire root system.

This is some mad scientist shit. I love it.

[Saratj1]

If you guys are looking for cheap bubbles by the ton made by Venturi's, check out protein skimmers and their pumps. I've been thinking about using one in my dwc but don't quite know how to incorporate it easily into my setup yet. A bubble blaster pump cost about $150 on eBay and will turn a 5 gal bucket into bubbles so thick it will look like milk .

Also you guys were wondering what the seal is called that you used when you drilled a hole into the bucket, it's a bulkhead so search 1" bulkhead and you'll find what you need

Here is a skimmer that I have. Notice the way the water looks inside the reaction chamber.290058

[polishpollack]

Initially, it's an interesting idea, but wikipedia states that the purpose of a skimmer is to remove molecules of waste and to do so, must inject air which creates the foam. I think there are other ways to achieve small bubbles. I don't know if the skimmer will work in hydroponics because molecule removal, like fertilizers, isn't what you want. The bubbles develop as a need to provide filtration. Protein skimmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_skimmer)
If you read through this thread from a couple years ago, the poster Charles Xavier seems to understand the subject well. https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/protein-skimmer.18442/
Hydro should use forced air without filtration. Thus the occassional need to dump and replenish. But this method works. Skimming may not work the way you'd like. But it's up to you.