I need someone's help with my plant!

[Maxor420]

Hi everyone. I hope that you are having a good day. I am concerned about one of my plants after it recently took a turn for the worse (And I didn't help it, by diagnosing and treating the wrong problem, which made the real problem worse it seems.

Here is the problem. New growth has almost ceased, the main growing top that is sprouting leaves, has diminished it's leaf production down to 1\4 inch a day if that. That is of new leaf, not total height of the plant growth.

Here are some pictures, first is just simply to show that I am using LED to grow this guy! I was constantly getting inter-nodes of less then 1\2 inch. However the rumor about these LED's are that they will produce a squat bushy plant with a superb high. However will not lend to large juicy buds, unless you mess with the ratio of blue - red. Mine right now is a veg light, and I built it to be 3:2 light ratio, or 60% blue, and 40% red. I am planning on adding an additional small panel to help during flowering. Or possibly using some 13w CFL for "light" support..... lol, sorry for the PUN!

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The last three are of TODAY, Jan 7th 2010. I flushed their soil on the fifth, because I noticed all growing tops were turning lime green and thought it was a problem. (I now know fast new growth will be lime green, and should turn normal in a few days) I had also gave her 2 cups of 500ppm nutrient solution on the day before the flush.

They stopped getting worse, however never really got better. Now the tips are turning brown! I have tips turning up, and down, and a general "wilt" happening at the growing top, yet mature leaves are doing alright, slight curling up of the side serrated edges, which is too much water I think.

Oh, please notice that aside from the leaf tips in the picture, you will notice that there are two leaves with brown spots developing. I have NO mites, or infestations. Mold is at a MINIMUM, almost never present unless I keep the soil moist too long.

If I didn't give some information that is needed, please lemme know. Oh, I have no PPM, or PH testing equipment, I use a friend who has them. (Can take up to a week to get something tested.... I have no cash right now to buy those or I would have, long time ago):smokin:

What I am thinking I need to do:

1) Let soil dry out a bit more (There is mold in pockets of air at soil level)
2) Transplant into BLACK pot, not frosted ice cream pail
2.5) Put catch tray under pot
3) Add some extra soil
4) Use a TESTED 5.5PH nutrient solution (Figure my soil PH by now is higher then it should be, so a lower PH would counteract that right?)

Happy Hoots!
Maxor420

[Faddenator]

Judging by the fact that your plant looks like mine did at that size, my guess is that you're over watering and possibly overfeeding?

-The brown tips tell me you're getting nute burn.
-The stunted growth tells me you've hit nutrient lockout.
-I'm having trouble putting this one into words, but just the way your fan leaves look make me think you're over watering.

I would wait until the soil is COMPLETELY dry for the first 3 inches down or so. when I started following that rule, I only watered every 3-4 days, feeding every other time, and my stressed plants literally fixed themselves in under 24 hours.

I also can't tell what your soil looks like because of the emergency blanket, but do you have drainage in your soil mix? like maybe 25% perlite or more? If your soil mix isn't draining properly, you're going to see this problem reoccuring. You also might be increasing your risk of root rot and mold.

Keep in mind i am in no way an expert, This is just the experience i've had with my grows. good luck :stoned:

[Faddenator]

I just re-read your post and noticed you said something about keeping the soil moist. what i've been told over and over is let your soil dry up. it allows oxygen to get to roots to let them breathe a little.

what i've sorta discovered just by the amount I need to water is that cannabis doesn't like water that much, in the sense that its better for the soil to be too dry instead of too wet. don't quote me on that, but it certainly seems that way.

Your plant is also still very young, so it needs a very small amount of water. I believe I was using about 8 oz. of water per plant every three days at this stage. hope this helps.

[Maxor420]

Fist of all I want to send out props to the guy who created this

Complete nutrient deficiency guide! (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688)

Secondly, thank you to faddenator for your response! I prefer someone who says "Jeeze that's just what my plants did...." then, "I think it could be this, or looks like that..... sometimes it could also be this!...."


I think there is about 15-20% perlite, and it has a LOT of peat moss (Spongy), and also wood.... like chopped sticks, some are still small sections of twig. It's a no-name brand from Superstore canada.

I am going to get on checking the PH, and the PPM of my feeding water, and the PH of my run-out water.

Anyone know an appropriate PH to have your feeding water at if your growing in normal soil? Also what PH is a safe range for my run out water?

[Maxor420]

I just re-read your post and noticed you said something about keeping the soil moist. what i've been told over and over is let your soil dry up. it allows oxygen to get to roots to let them breathe a little.

what i've sorta discovered just by the amount I need to water is that cannabis doesn't like water that much, in the sense that its better for the soil to be too dry instead of too wet. don't quote me on that, but it certainly seems that way.

Your plant is also still very young, so it needs a very small amount of water. I believe I was using about 8 oz. of water per plant every three days at this stage. hope this helps.

I couldn't ask for more honestly. You just essentially gave me my exit strategy for getting out of this mess! Thank you!

Oh yeah, that plant is 4 weeks old. (Actually 6, but it was a survivor from a failed fogponics setup, not fogoponics)

[Maxor420]

Is is possible that in stead of nutrient "Lockout" it could simply not have any nutrients to uptake?

Either way, I will wait a day or two, let it dry out.... maybe let it get to the wilting stage to be sure! Then start giving it 1 cup of nutrient solution every 3 days, or when three inches of the top soil is dry.

Faddenator, Thank you.... I know I could have found that information elsewhere, but then I am left with interpreting it on my own. You have apparently just fixed this problem, so I am VERY inclined to follow your suggestion to a tee.

[Faddenator]

It's always good when someone appreciates advice. I'm always very thankful for the info I get in these forums.

I could be very wrong about lockout. from what I can gather, its caused by overfeeding or ph problems (the ph needs to be in 6.5 range for optimum nutrient uptake) so if you arent feeding regularly, maybe its a ph problem? or it possibly could only be overwatering? I don't think you need to worry about feeding so much until the plant is a little bigger... there should be enough nutrient in the soil (assuming its new soil) to feed a small plant for a little while, even if it isn't self feeding soil.

as for your ph concerns, ill hand the mic over to stinkyattic. he posted a pretty in-depth thread about ph levels

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/153522-soil-runoff-ph-flushing-correct-lockouts-why-how-do.html

yay information! :jointsmile:

[Faddenator]

Just remember, you can use my suggestions, but you should make some decisions based on how your plant reacts to those suggestions. What works for me in my climate, with my soil mix, with my materials, etc. might not work for you. It's a good place to start, but I obviously can't stick my head in your growspace every day to ensure this is the right. It's up to you to make judgments and tweak them to fit your situation.

go ahead and use my suggestions to start though, There is no doubt in my mind that you'll at least see some improvement.

let me know how she's doing in a few days, I'd love to see the results. :thumbsup:

[Faddenator]

Sorry, but this is kinda cool. I have pics of mine before and after. I think you'll see what I mean when I say I was in a similar situation.

[Maxor420]

I am going to post picture updates every day that I can until this is remedied. The plants lower set of leaves started wilting to the foil, I am going to wait until this evening, and see if it's worse, or the same. I will find it hard to believe if it's gone through that entire flush in three to four days... considering it has barely grown in the last two days.

I had a cheap froggy moisture detector, you can see it in the purple pics, however it would never trip, and I found that out one day when I came to check on her, and she was already keeling over. I removed the detector, it started chirping when I took it out of course.....lol.

I should really invest in some cheap equipment already.....

[Maxor420]

My plant is now looking a bit better after a couple days of no watering. Surprisingly it still has not used up the water in it's 1 gallon pot, it's still from a flush I did on January 5th.

The plant is a female for sure, I have just finished sexing her. Now for ANOTHER stressful change back to vegging. I am not worried about the increase in time it takes to do it this way, however I am just hoping that my plant survives.

I also got a clone from my buddy. I forget the strain name right now, however he says he charges over $100 for the clones, and it's pretty potent, I've smoked it. I hope that survives, since it's the reason I switched back to 24 hours light. As well, I don't plan on over watering this new one.... I've learned so much so quickly...LoL!

[Faddenator]

Glad to see things are going well! Apparently its just you and me on this one haha. You should get some pics up if you can :thumbsup:

[Maxor420]

Hello to all who are following!

I have an update on my situation:

1) Plant has resumed growth, slowly picking up speed.
2) It is spring green, not forest green.
3) Starting to see nutrient deficiencies on the leaves. The skin between the veins are turning lighter green/yellow, yet the veins remain green on the leaves. Discoloration starts at the leaf base, not the leaf tip.
4) Gave it 1 cup, 50% strength, 450ppm, 6.8PH, nutrient solution today
(Been 9 days since my flush..... is it normal for it to take that long?)

Maintenance: I snipped off the small leaves at the bottom of the new growing tips. They were small, and not growing, so I assumed they get very little light. I've heard that this can actually put stress on the plant, and it is better to remove foliage that will struggle, then to have it struggle. It also helps air flow down below.

Here are some new pictures!
(And that purple light is my grow space.... very happy with LED!)
(To view FULL size, click the image again once it loads after your first click on it)

[Faddenator]

3) Starting to see nutrient deficiencies on the leaves. The skin between the veins are turning lighter green/yellow, yet the veins remain green on the leaves. Discoloration starts at the leaf base, not the leaf tip.
4) Gave it 1 cup, 50% strength, 450ppm, 6.8PH, nutrient solution today
(Been 9 days since my flush..... is it normal for it to take that long?)


These are my two concerns-
It's good that you fed it, especially if things are yellowing. Keep going with the 50% solution.
Now for the real concern: does 9 days mean it been that long since you've watered? or just until you've fed it?

The reason I ask is 9 days is a long time for water to be sitting in your soil, it should dry up in a few days. any longer puts your roots at risk. so... hopefully im reading this wrong haha. If not, check on your drainage- you may need to add more perlite and re-transplant.

[Maxor420]

Nope, it took 9 days to evaporate off a FULLY saturated 4L pail of soil. I will cut some larger holes into the bottom of the pail.

I guess something else to keep in mind is that the pail was covered with foil for the better part of those 9 days, and when it was removed, had condensed water on the bottom side.

I have decided the added reflected light isn't of greater benefit than properly draining soil. We will have to see how this turn out in the next couple days.

What I can say RIGHT NOW is that the leaves have gone back into a drooping state, however it's only to the extent that you would consider it in a "Resting" phase. Lower leaves are more perky, however some are more droopy too!

All in all, it's growing again! What I want to attempt to do is gather some run off, and check the PH..... maybe the PPM would be smart as well. (Remember, gotta treck to buddies house to get stuff tested):rastasmoke:

[Faddenator]

I would say removing the foil over the soil is a good idea. I'll admit that when I first saw that I thought it was genius haha, but I overlooked the same thing you did... the evaporation.

Im still worried about the drainage though. is your soil more composty/soily, or more woodchippy? have you added perlite at all? I personally use miracle gro potting mix... it works really well for me. but even with a woody soil like that, i still added about 25% perlite. If you haven't added any perlite, I'd highly recommend it. I'm willing to bet the current droopiness is from the most recent watering. Every time I water my plants droop for about 12 hours or so. I don't even know if this is common, but it doesnt seem to be a problem.

[Maxor420]

Wow... simply wow. You'll see tomorrow what I mean in the pictures....


I gave it half strength nutrients earlier today (still before midnight, I can say that....) and I just checked on her.... I would say there is a total growth of about 1\2".


I have a theory, let me know what you think about it:

1) Nutrients are always good... especially when you hit the mark as far as what they seem to have wanted, and nothing more.
2) I KNOW the nutrient solution was at 6.8PH, and if my soil was slightly higher in PH, that could have potentially lowered it into a more acceptable level, even if only by .1PH (Meaning if I was out in left field at 8PH or something)

Now I just have to watch her grow up.... then :rastasmoke:

OH!! one more thing, what is your opinion on cutting the tops? Should it be done, or not. If I do, are the top colas going to be as large, or will there just be four slightly smaller ones?

As far as my soil, it's "Presidents choice supreme potting soil" or some other word than supreme. I have no clue what it all has, however it's pretty spongy when it's wet. When it's dry, it kind of crumbles easily, and there is about a 10% mixture of perlite already in there from the factory. I don't have money right now to purchase perlite to add, however I will take that into consideration when I have more expendable cash that could be put to use in this area. (There are strange pale orange balls that seem to hold moisture, however when I crush them, they are hollow, and usually contain very small amounts of water, enough to wet my finger tip slightly... maybe it's a bug egg from inferior processing or something, however it's way to clean on the inside for it to be that I would think. That and they are perfectly sealed and about 6mm in diameter)

[Maxor420]

Well today I finished re-organizing my grow area to better accommodate my plants. I am growing tomatoes too!

I won't be posting pictures today, however it seems I am still lacking nutrients, however it seems more prevalent at the top growth. It is like the center oval section of the leaf fingers is turning yellow, yet the beginning, and tips are good and green. The veins are green as well.... I will take pictures tomorrow, it will be very noticeable by then.

Have a good one faddenator:rastasmoke:

[Faddenator]

I have a theory, let me know what you think about it:

1) Nutrients are always good... especially when you hit the mark as far as what they seem to have wanted, and nothing more.
2) I KNOW the nutrient solution was at 6.8PH, and if my soil was slightly higher in PH, that could have potentially lowered it into a more acceptable level, even if only by .1PH (Meaning if I was out in left field at 8PH or something)

Sounds like a good theory to me. but do you really think your soils ph is that high??? If so, you might want to get some ph down (or something around the house to lower ph, chances are you have something around) because putting 6.8ph solution into 8ph soil will still be a bit too basic. 6.8ph is actually the cap for growing in soil, so you don't want your ph any higher. If your plant is doing ok, however, I would guess your soil ph is closer to neutral. To be sure, check your runoff ph.


OH!! one more thing, what is your opinion on cutting the tops? Should it be done, or not. If I do, are the top colas going to be as large, or will there just be four slightly smaller ones?

I don't know much about trimming, sorry. Personally, Im not trimming anything. Hopefully someone else will chime in and help you with that, if you choose to do it.


There are strange pale orange balls that seem to hold moisture, however when I crush them, they are hollow, and usually contain very small amounts of water, enough to wet my finger tip slightly... maybe it's a bug egg from inferior processing or something, however it's way to clean on the inside for it to be that I would think. That and they are perfectly sealed and about 6mm in diameter)

I'm almost positive those are water soluble balls filled with generic plant food. probably has a shitty N-P-K ratio for weed, especially since it's presidents choice. I would definitely disregard them, treat them as if they aren't there. I've seen those little balls at nurseries as well... I think they use them exclusively because if there are enough in the pot, they should feed the plant automatically. anyone know for sure???

I think thats all i got for now. :jointsmile:

[Maxor420]

Thanks for the reply.

Well if anyone who is reading this knows about topping a plant, to promote the last node to become your main top(s) please let me know what you know.

I have downloaded every movie I can on cannabis, however those are just each persons personal opinion. There were actually very few things that they all had in common with each other. The basics like light, water, and growing medium were there, however not much else. They had a million tips, and each had it's own bit of wisdom to contribute to my knowledge base, however nothing like what I can get easily here.

Maybe I should check my(bookmarked) "sickness" thread to see if I can match a picture to my plant.

[Faddenator]

Are you talking about training your plant to get more top colas?? I thought you meant pruning... Bigtopsfinn did a pretty good job of it with his grow. Here's his log:

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/163793-ghs-trainwreck-grow-log-lst.html

Read through it, seriously... I read the whole damn thing and it literally TAUGHT ME how to train a plant.

good luck, as usual :thumbsup:

[Maxor420]

What I'm talking about is cutting to main stem off just below the top, under the top most set of leaves, or next set would work too. This encourages the two side nodes to grow as if it was that main top (Assuming because they have direct light)

Here are some new pictures of how she is doing today, the 17th.

She looks really nice now, and is greening up well.
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I gave her another cup of full strength nutrients because I still noticed a small amount of deficiency hanging around in the leaf color. As well it was time for another watering anyways, the soil was dry about 3" down. She loves it, leaves are straight out and bathing in the weird purple hue of the LED's.

I will probably stop posting in here, and find another section that allows me to have an on going log of sorts to post my ongoing adventure with her.

Happy Hooting:rastasmoke:

[Faddenator]

That topping thing is new to me, but it sounds like it makes a lot of sense. You seem like you've got a good handle on shit now. good luck with the rest of your grow. :thumbsup:

[Maxor420]

Yeah, that topping thing is straight out of a high times magazine. I have grown another plant previous to this one that got that treatment.

It worked well, scary well..... as if I had just simply split the main growing stem, and both nodes fattened their stem, and their growth rate went through the roof.

The problem I was not able to remedy because I wasn't visiting her frequently enough (It was not at my house) was that those two nodes pulled the main stem in two during budding, and that would have been fine if it hadn't then gotten a disease of some sort through that open wound. (Just stopped budding after that happened, and started getting weird coloring around the wound site, and it was spreading through the skin.... it died, but not before I saved a clone!:thumbsup:)

Moral to my story, make sure if you want to try this yourself, to learn from my mistakes, and tie them to each other. Twist ties (From sandwich bags) work great, and are usually on hand.

Look for me in a new section soon!:rastasmoke:

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