the devil's details

[colagal]

Still trying to get a grasp on the growing/cultivating details and how it fits into the regulatory proposals....according to the definitions in the proposed Denver City ordinance to be considered at a public hearing on Jan 11:

"Medical Marijuana dispensary means a business that sells or otherwise distributes marijuana through one or more primary care-givers to six (6) or more patients for medical use, along with any cultivation of marijuana associated with such sale or distribution. The term â??medical marijuana dispensaryâ?� shall not include any person or entity that distributes marijuana for medical use exclusively to five (5) or fewer patients, and shall not include the private possession and medical use of marijuana by an individual patient or caregiver to the extent permitted by Article XVIII, Section 14 of the Colorado Constitution and any other applicable state law or regulation."

Accordingly, a caregiver who has 6 or more patients would need to be a licensed dispensary, and therefore meet all the licensing requirements which includes (among other things) restrictions on zoning, i.e., cannot be located in a residential zone? These requirements certainly seem onerous, unjustified and sets the stage for more costly litigation. How many steps backward do we need to go before going forward?

This is the proposed ordinance: http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/81/documents/MMD%20ord%20cb%20safety%20comm%20version%20%282%29 .pdf

[palerider7777]

seems weird with all thetemp block in each city to open a shop anyways? and it also sounds like if your under 5 your a small fry but over six they want to make sure they get there cut on it all.

[colagal]

palerider7777 seems weird with all thetemp block in each city to open a shop anyways? and it also sounds like if your under 5 your a small fry but over six they want to make sure they get there cut on it all.

Yes, not only are they encouraging small fries and making money on the big fries, but giving themselves a hammer; because anybody (other than dispensaries) who has 6 or more patients probably grows in their own home, which, unless your home is in a commercial zone (not likely), is against the ordinance, and actionable. This is where code enforcement comes in...

So, it looks like they are still trying to make it difficult for the dispensaries, and retain the 5 patient max to a caregiver idea.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

I think this most recent proposal has a lot of things they know they wont get passed (like the 5 patient rule) so they can use them bargaining chips. so however it reads now wont be the same after they pass this new proposal, and my guess is they will do this again every year. never happy are they?

meded to mededicate to mededitate

[palerider7777]

I think this most recent proposal has a lot of things they know they wont get passed (like the 5 patient rule) so they can use them bargaining chips. so however it reads now wont be the same after they pass this new proposal, and my guess is they will do this again every year. never happy are they?

meded to mededicate to mededitate

weird how when they put something they want up to a vote and it passes nothing else about it is said.but now this passes"something that thought would never happen"and now there running around like chickens with there heads cut off.trying everything they can to reverse it back to how it was.never have i seen in my life this many town hall meetings and such trying to reverse what the people voted on.abunch of wankers.

we need to clean house from top to bottom and start off with people that are happy to and know they work for us not the other way around.

[colagal]

I think this most recent proposal has a lot of things they know they wont get passed (like the 5 patient rule) so they can use them bargaining chips. so however it reads now wont be the same after they pass this new proposal, and my guess is they will do this again every year. never happy are they?

There is some solace in that; however, I worry too much. There are three laws in the works: one by Romer, one supposedly by the CO County Sheriff's, and one by the Denver city council. Quite the coordinated attack. They are doing their best to re-criminalize patients and their caregivers....back to the dark ages. The first reading of the Denver city council version is going on....now.

Reference for above: Cannabis Therapy Institutue - Medical Cannabis (Marijuana) Research, Education and Advocacy in Colorado (http://www.cannabistherapyinstitute.com/bills/)

[palerider7777]

A primary caregiver may serve no more than 5 patients on the registry at one time. A
primary caregiver may not delegate a patient to another caregiver or join with another caregiver
to grow marijuana. The department of health shall establish a registry of available caregivers for
those patients who need a caregiver to provide medical marijuana.
An individual who is permitted to use medical marijuana must have in his or her
possession a registry identification card when possessing a usable form of marijuana.>>>>>>>>>

that looks like an attack on the shops here.....


The standards for ensuring that registry identification cards are issued by the
department only to patients who have a bona fide physician-patient relationship with a physician
in good standing and licensed to practice medicine in the state of Colorado; except that the
executive director may promulgate rules related to a bona fide physician-patient relationship to
COMMITTEE REDRAFT Revised 12.09.09 -4-

allow a patient to receive a registry identification card under exceptional circumstances when the
patient has not established a bona fide physician-patient relationship.?????>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"this looks like an attack on patient/caregiver as in making us spend money monthly? on doc visits to stay "current"as to our cond??"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(VIII) The requirements and standards for passing a criminal history record check for all
primary caregivers. Passing a criminal history check includes no felony convictions, no
misdemeanor drug convictions within the last year, no multiple misdemeanors or petty offense
drug convictions within the last five years no two or more DUIs in the last ten years and any
other information that would indicate the individual is a danger to himself/herself or others

looks like they want to punish someone for having to "break the law"when they should'nt have had to.to get the meds they needed at the time.now from the looks of it if u did this for any reason no card for u.what abunch of bs.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A primary caregiver may not delegate to any other person his or her authority to
provide medical marijuana to a patient nor may a primary caregiver engage others to assist in
providing medical marijuana to a patient

,,,what a nice way to say u are stuck to 1 caregiver..what happened to compassion? another attack on shops???
>>>>>>>>>>

Two or more primary caregivers may not join together for the purpose of growing or
cultivating medical marijuana.
(e) Only a primary caregiver or a patient may cultivate marijuana, and then only for
medical use.
(f) If a primary caregiver is providing medical marijuana to a patient, then a patient
cannot also grow and provide his/her own medical marijuana.
(g) The executive director may promulgate rules regarding the following:
(I) What constitutes â??significant responsibility for managing the well-being of a patientâ?�;
except that the act of supplying medical marijuana or marijuana paraphernalia, by itself, is
insufficient to constitute â??significant responsibility for managing the well-being of a patientâ?�;

another crock of shit to control your every move,the ones crying about price,,like i said b4 just wait you will love whats coming....

>>>>>>>>>>

The grounds and procedures for a patient to change his or her designated primary
caregiver.
(g) On the effective date of the rules promulgated pursuant to this subsection (3), the
medical marijuana program rules adopted by the state board of health are repealed.

hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............

>>>>>>>>>>

Registry identification card required â?? denial â?? revocation. (a) When in
possession of any usable form of marijuana for medical use, a patient or primary caregiver shall
have in his or her possession his or her medical marijuana registry identification card or, if more
than thirty-five days have passed since the date of filing his or her medical marijuana program
application and the department has not yet issued a registry identification card, a copy of his or
her application along with proof of the date of submission
>>>>>>>>>

so now u can't use your paper work until 35 days after you apply...talk about compassion what if people needed meds right away?
\>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Local zoning. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a municipality or other
jurisdiction from enacting zoning requirements regarding manufacturing, producing, selling,
cultivating, distributing, dispensing, transporting or storing medical marijuana.

"nice how they left this open so that there buddies in office can pretty much deem growing/using unsafe"i can only wonder what they will do with this???then once zoned illegal in you neighborhood and u get caught in your home it's hiho hi ho it's off to jail we go.im sure they left this as a loophole for themselfs".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

address the debilitating medical condition. The patient who asserts this affirmative
defense must waive confidentiality privileges.
COMMITTEE REDRAFT Revised 12.09.09 -12-

nice see what there doing here????
>>>>>>>>>>>


bottom line there up to exactly what i have been saying they were.but what do i know im crazy right??

[colagal]

As noted by Palerider's references, these "bargaining chips" are so restrictive and unrealistic that it is choking the life out of the initial amendment passed by the voters.

If I understand these proposals correctly, what can a patient do if, for example, they were unsatisfied with the meds provided by the caregiver, or the patient is unhappy with their caregiver's caregiving, or the caregiver's crop was compromised in some fashion and not productive, or if the patient wants to change their caregiver? The patient cannot grow as a back up, and the patient cannot go to another caregiver/dispensary since that would constitute the primary caregiver delegating to or joining with another caregiver. What does that leave? The bad ol' days...

The legislators want this as restrictive as possible giving more ammo for LEO to step in the fray. Maybe I have misinterpreted and am doing a Chicken Little dance for no reason...

[palerider7777]

As noted by Palerider's references, these "bargaining chips" are so restrictive and unrealistic that it is choking the life out of the initial amendment passed by the voters.

If I understand these proposals correctly, what can a patient do if, for example, they were unsatisfied with the meds provided by the caregiver, or the patient is unhappy with their caregiver's caregiving, or the caregiver's crop was compromised in some fashion and not productive, or if the patient wants to change their caregiver? The patient cannot grow as a back up, and the patient cannot go to another caregiver/dispensary since that would constitute the primary caregiver delegating to or joining with another caregiver. What does that leave? The bad ol' days...

The legislators want this as restrictive as possible giving more ammo for LEO to step in the fray. Maybe I have misinterpreted and am doing a Chicken Little dance for no reason...

thats what it sounds like to me.they want to make to where u can only have 5 but then those patients can't just go to a shop to buy meds while there say...waiting on there caregivers meds to be rdy or whatever reason.that will put many shops out of biz in a flash..guess that will clear up these shop reviews on the borads here?

these people that are talking about being able to get oz's for 100$ are living in a dream world and if any of this passes we all will be.you think for a sec that shops being limited to only 5 patients to grow for will be able to stay in biz?oh thats right i forgot for each patient a caregiver grows for those plants make the caregiver 500,000 each my bad i forgot.thats about as dumb street talk as the "yea hydro is where you grow the plants under the water".

i guess this is what those peeps wanted so this is what they will get?

[colagal]

thats what it sounds like to me.they want to make to where u can only have 5 but then those patients can't just go to a shop to buy meds while there say...waiting on there caregivers meds to be rdy or whatever reason.that will put many shops out of biz in a flash..guess that will clear up these shop reviews on the borads here?

these people that are talking about being able to get oz's for 100$ are living in a dream world and if any of this passes we all will be.you think for a sec that shops being limited to only 5 patients to grow for will be able to stay in biz?oh thats right i forgot for each patient a caregiver grows for those plants make the caregiver 500,000 each my bad i forgot.thats about as dumb street talk as the "yea hydro is where you grow the plants under the water".

i guess this is what those peeps wanted so this is what they will get?

Indeed, a lot of these threads will become moot if many of these proposals pass. I suspect that whatever passes will ultimately translate into increased costs to patients, especially given cultivation restrictions, an increase in law and code enforcement activities, and licensing requirements.

And, oh, I forgot that mj are cousins to water lilies. What was I thinking using dirt...?

[Denvertoad]

hydro is where you grow the plants under the water

I had no idea that you could do that... That's absolutely incredible!! So I could have an herb garden in my fish tank? And when I feed the fish it would simultaneously fertilize the garden. Frickin brilliant!!!:thumbsup:

Couldn't help myself. Utter newbie here. That's my first post and that's the best I could do? Sad little man...

I'll start a thread and intro in a bit. Wanted to chime in and say it's good to see folks taking all these new proposed regulations seriously. These things are going to get sorted out one way or another. With or without our involvement. The current system looks too hinky to outsiders, many of which can't wait to shove their two cents down our throats. Without community (business) involvement and money there may well come a time we'll all regret not defending our rights.

Toadster

[palerider7777]

Indeed, a lot of these threads will become moot if many of these proposals pass. I suspect that whatever passes will ultimately translate into increased costs to patients, especially given cultivation restrictions, an increase in law and code enforcement activities, and licensing requirements.

And, oh, I forgot that mj are cousins to water lilies. What was I thinking using dirt...?

and here the whole time i thought it was just a weed?where u could just throw out a handful of seed anywhere and it would grow like crazy.lmao thats odd because my uncle that used to grow back in the 70's/80's had been saving all his seed from then he had a 1gal ziplock full from panama red to alco gold.anyways he went to a medow behind his house in the woods and just threw hand fuls out till the bag was gone.guess what not a single plant came from it.so much for it being just a weed huh?

what peeps don't understand is how many thousands upon thousands of seeds get dropped from any plant just to get 1 or 2 germed and going"in nature i mean".do you know how many thousands of seed say pine trees drop just to get the forest that we do have?

you would think that these peeps would study alil b4 opening there mouths lmao.

on another note i think we all should print up flyers and post them around town letting people know what there up to.alot of med patients don't get on forums like this to be aware of things.also we should all write these guys in office and let them know if they keep up there shit we will make sure they are kicked from office.

[lampost]

he had a 1gal ziplock full from panama red to alco gold.

Man you're a lucky guy if you got a hold of those landrace genetics


on another note i think we all should print up flyers and post them around town letting people know what there up to.alot of med patients don't get on forums like this to be aware of things.also we should all write these guys in office and let them know if they keep up there shit we will make sure they are kicked from office.

That's a good idea!

[colagal]

I had no idea that you could do that... That's absolutely incredible!! So I could have an herb garden in my fish tank? And when I feed the fish it would simultaneously fertilize the garden. Frickin brilliant!!!

And as you well know, when the fish start to bob it is time to harvest - I went to a seminar on this....; however, you are at risk in violating the bobbing fish ordinance. Just a heads up...


what peeps don't understand is how many thousands upon thousands of seeds get dropped from any plant just to get 1 or 2 germed and going"in nature i mean".do you know how many thousands of seed say pine trees drop just to get the forest that we do have?

I reckon it depends where they drop. If one dropped, for example, in Panama, it would probably grow.

[palerider7777]

And as you well know, when the fish start to bob it is time to harvest - I went to a seminar on this....; however, you are at risk in violating the bobbing fish ordinance. Just a heads up...



I reckon it depends where they drop. If one dropped, for example, in Panama, it would probably grow.

i was just saying the germ rate is very low for 80+% of seeds that fall.and in a forest each seed has lot to contend with birds,getting past all the over growth and so on it's a bitch for a seed in the wild.

[palerider7777]

Man you're a lucky guy if you got a hold of those landrace genetics



That's a good idea!

i know right,i said u did what when he told me that.i was like nooooooooooooooooo.lmao

[kingminus]

Guys I think we're fucked.

[palerider7777]

Guys I think we're fucked.

all depends how much are people willing to take b4 they push back and push back with force? it was voted in and passed now they want to take it back?thats a slap in our face and proof that they don't give a shit about our vote.
i say you don't give a shit about our vote then we should'nt give a shit about there bs laws they put in place to control us like slaves.a breaking point is barreling at us full speed ahead.not only on the mmj front but on the world front as well.there's alot of shit going down around us and most are blind to it but it's there and it's head for full impact sooner than later.

thats all i'll say about that, all i can say is be ready at any moment. you were warned.

[colagal]

all depends how much are people willing to take b4 they push back and push back with force? it was voted in and passed now they want to take it back?thats a slap in our face and proof that they don't give a shit about our vote.
i say you don't give a shit about our vote then we should'nt give a shit about there bs laws they put in place to control us like slaves.a breaking point is barreling at us full speed ahead.not only on the mmj front but on the world front as well.there's alot of shit going down around us and most are blind to it but it's there and it's head for full impact sooner than later.

thats all i'll say about that, all i can say is be ready at any moment. you were warned.

Keep preaching bro (did you know part of the movie Pale Rider was filmed in the Boulder Mountains? - a little trivia for you)...Anyway...

The forces will collide in what will be an interesting dogfight. Whatever the results, it looks like Sensible Colorado is prepared to sponsor a ballot initiative to possibly force a public vote on these proposed ordinances and amendments.

[kingminus]

Dudes, where do we meet Jan 11 to fight this bullshit? Thats what we need to do. Contact every one off these buttholes and stand up!

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

panama red and acapulco gold are dead lines. i suppose some old timers have clones but they are not sharing. ive seen a couple of companies trying to recreate them however i have not seen any real interest or buzz about them. if you know someone who has them get on your knees and open your mouth to get them:thumbsup:

meded so you can mededicate to mededitate

[palerider7777]

panama red and acapulco gold are dead lines. i suppose some old timers have clones but they are not sharing. ive seen a couple of companies trying to recreate them however i have not seen any real interest or buzz about them. if you know someone who has them get on your knees and open your mouth to get them:thumbsup:

meded so you can mededicate to mededitate

yea i know thats why i was so freaked when he told me that.my other uncle have a king size pill bottle full of the same.he told me he would save them for me.the thing is thats all they grew back then was those 2 strains.so the pill bottle is mixed with both.:jointsmile:

[colagal]

Dudes, where do we meet Jan 11 to fight this bullshit? Thats what we need to do. Contact every one off these buttholes and stand up!


The hearing on Jan.11 will be held at 5:30PM in the Denver City Council Chambers on the third floor of the Denver City and County Building, 1437 Bannock Street. Let's hope for a good turnout...from our side.

[COzigzag]

The hearing on Jan.11 will be held at 5:30PM in the Denver City Council Chambers on the third floor of the Denver City and County Building, 1437 Bannock Street. Let's hope for a good turnout...from our side.

We would love to attend this meeting to show our support but are too paranoid. I'm sure a news crew will be there with cameras for all to see. We don't want our employers or some family members seeing us on TV. We can't take the risk.

Are there any alternative ways to show our support?

[Vancefish]

We would love to attend this meeting to show our support but are too paranoid. I'm sure a news crew will be there with cameras for all to see. We don't want our employers or some family members seeing us on TV. We can't take the risk.

Are there any alternative ways to show our support?

First off, I've been to a few "smoke outs" Both at this protest location, AND the one at CU Boulder on 4-20-?? every year. Typically the crowd is so large that unless your sitting on the edges near a news crew they will be VERY unlikely to film you. If you want insurance you won't be seen. GET IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CROWD! First, It's highly unlikely the news crews will take or show much footage of the largest areas of the crowd (Might portray our side as "large"). Second, WHERE'S WALLY!! :thumbsup:

Here are some Youtube films of the smoke outs:

Boulder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PragljnmPZs
Denver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLuErA3BBYw

DO you see anyone YOU know? :thumbsup:

EVER SEEN THIS ON THE NEWS, BECAUSE THIS HAPPENS EVERY YEAR!

[colagal]

We would love to attend this meeting to show our support but are too paranoid. I'm sure a news crew will be there with cameras for all to see. We don't want our employers or some family members seeing us on TV. We can't take the risk.

Are there any alternative ways to show our support?


I certainly understand your concerns. If your employer somehow sees you on TV advocating mmj, and subsequently takes an adverse employment action against you because of your opinion and/or medical situation, your employer can be liable for retaliation and discrimination. You are exercising your First Amendment rights to speak. Since it is a city council meeting, you have to be present to be heard....may have to get on the agenda though.

Nonetheless, the fact that you (and probably others) are afraid to speak out further enables and reinforces the prejudices that abound.

Hopefully, there will be mmj representatives/organizations at this meeting, like Sensible Colorado, who will speak on behalf of the many. Contacting them may be an indirect way to get involved.

[senorx12562]

I certainly understand your concerns. If your employer somehow sees you on TV advocating mmj, and subsequently takes an adverse employment action against you because of your opinion and/or medical situation, your employer can be liable for retaliation and discrimination. You are exercising your First Amendment rights to speak. Since it is a city council meeting, you have to be present to be heard....may have to get on the agenda though.

Nonetheless, the fact that you (and probably others) are afraid to speak out further enables and reinforces the prejudices that abound.

Hopefully, there will be mmj representatives/organizations at this meeting, like Sensible Colorado, who will speak on behalf of the many. Contacting them may be an indirect way to get involved.
Actually, it would be very difficult to pursue a wrongful termination case in Colorado under the fact situation you describe unless the employer is a government agency. As Colorado is a "hire and fire at will" state, and strongly so at that, the employer only has to give no reason for the termination, or an unrelated one ( the economy comes to mind) in order to insulate themselves from liability. Only if the employer was stupid enough to actually put in writing that the termination was for exercising a protected right could one prevail.

Worse yet in this case is the fact that a private employer, at least in Colorado, can legally terminate an employee for exercising one's first amendment rights. Wrongful termination is a tough row to hoe in Colorado.

[stuartambient]

Nonetheless, the fact that you (and probably others) are afraid to speak out further enables and reinforces the prejudices that abound.

Hopefully, there will be mmj representatives/organizations at this meeting, like Sensible Colorado, who will speak on behalf of the many. Contacting them may be an indirect way to get involved.

Employers do not always let you know why they are letting you go and if they do, those reasons may just be a cover .

Just mentioning.

S

[lampost]

Yeah you don't have much recourse. But you can also leave your employer with no notice and no reason.

I think that they could fire you with no worries for MMJ too. The precedent has already been set in California! The guy was fired for medical marijuana, they gave him that reason. And he lost when trying to sue for wrongful termination.

Due to the conflicting legalities and the perceived notion that its still an ilicit drug, they CAN fire you for it. So, don't go broadcasting your status. I don't know the details on this case, I'm sure you can find it if you're interested. It was probably a national Corporation... I doubt things would be any different with a CO Corporation though.

The bottom line is that an employer can do pretty much whatever they want! They can fire you because they don't like you personally (not a good fit), they can fire you on any whim. Don't give them more ammo. And they can certainly fire you for MMJ whether they say so or not.

That being said, I don't give a fuck if my co-worker saw me on TV. The odds of you being on camera for long enough and your coworker catching it at the same time are slim. And if they did see you, just say your "grandma" is sick and your feel strongly about it! Jeesh, man up!

That's the problem... More than half of these patients are underground. We need the doctors, lawyers, engineers, who smoke to step up and say, "this shit didn't ruin my life, and doesn't affect my productivity at all. It merely provides a pain/stress relief for me when I need it."

[stuartambient]

maybe the dispensaries can do a drive , free gram with 1 purchased or something to get people out since it would benefit them as well. I have no idea how that would actually work.

[colagal]

Actually, it would be very difficult to pursue a wrongful termination case in Colorado under the fact situation you describe unless the employer is a government agency. As Colorado is a "hire and fire at will" state, and strongly so at that, the employer only has to give no reason for the termination, or an unrelated one ( the economy comes to mind) in order to insulate themselves from liability. Only if the employer was stupid enough to actually put in writing that the termination was for exercising a protected right could one prevail.

Worse yet in this case is the fact that a private employer, at least in Colorado, can legally terminate an employee for exercising one'sfirst amendment rights. Wrongful termination is a tough row to hoe in Colorado.

Indeed, proving wrongful termination can be a tough row; however, that in itself should not discourage an employee from seeking out legal representation if a protected right has been violated. It is about standing up for your rights, somewhat similar to what the mmj community is doing regarding defending their rights not to be condemned or criminalized for using/growing/distributing medical marijuana, which is also proving to be a tough row to hoe.