The economics of MMJ?

[starter09]

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

[FarmerSteve]

There's no doubt that I will be growing my own soon. I want to. I don't care how hard it is, I'll learn. What's life about if it isn't about learning? Along the way, I will go to the 4 or 5 dispensaries that seemingly bring the top of the line goods, and that will keep me medicated and happy until my 1st crop comes in, not to mention I want to figure out what I want to grow and where better to figure that out than to test the best that I can find right now. That's part of the reason that I am SO enthused about CCF and some of Bryan's strains. It's not every day you literally fall in love with a strain.

And even if my buds aren't the tightest right off the bat, they'll get the job done at a FRACTION of the price, and as was said, I'll have all of this trim and such to make edibles, which I LOVE, and hash, which I hope to love. :stoned:

I don't knock ANY of these guys, even the ones selling bunk, but that doesn't mean that I want to stay at the mercy of ANY other person for my meds. :thumbsup:

[Dietblonde]

Nice! Those poor pot dealers...such hard work for chicken feed! $134k a year, though...that is a ton of money and its tax free! I know its intensive and a lot of stress, but it ain't even hard labor! You get to work indoors, be high on the job, and be your own boss. I spent all last year on an oil rig in northern North Dakota in subzero temperatures working 12 hour days getting my body banged up for not even half the profit. Show's how dumb I've been.

$30,000 to start a commercial grow op? That does seem a little high.

[justinsane33]

we should start a giant commune for mmj. like the sixties. just live up there and sell the cannabis for a job. could have some sweet prices if it's filled with talented growers that care about the movement. i could sweep or answer the phone or something. :)

[redtails]

Yeah the dispensaries charge street market prices, sometimes even more & that's just plain "uncompassionate care"...It really doesn't cost much to grow. Take an initial investment of $500-2000 for equipment/seeds & $25-125 a month in utilities & you can supply 1-10 people for a while depending on need...and they're charging tens of thousands? Then you need to replace bulbs every crop to every other crop, more nutrients, soil, & water when you run out, it still ends up being probably 1/4 the cost of dispensaries or less if you get high-yielding strains grown fairly decently. I highly recommend growing your own if you have the dedication & patience. Research as much as you can, & remember that the more time & effort (not necessarily $) you put into it, the better your outcome.

[FarmerSteve]

I'm convinced that if a person is determined, hard working, focused and humble enough, they can start growing VERY good buds right off the bat. It's going to cost a little $$, but almost every person, EVERY ONE OF US, cuts corners, doesn't follow directions, doesn't read and investigate their subject properly, doesn't ask for enough help, and so on, and THAT is why most people have problems.

I'm not saying that you won't have issues, or that you won't learn a LOT from experience, but I think it can work.

I say this because I was thinking the same thing. At some point, a group of people should come together, divide the upfront costs, assign managers and growers (maybe everyone who can do the work can pitch in like a community garden?) and then equally divide the bounty amongst the members. How do we pay for it? Well, we figure out what our crop will be, and figure out how much hash and kief we will get as well. Then we figure out how much each person gets based on a formula of "what do we have to sell to stay operating"?

Lets say there was 100 people. 300 plants, and we'll say that comes to harvest 4 times a year. What can we guesstimate that each plant will produce, maybe3 ounces at a time, plus the extras? So that's 225 pounds a year. Let's say each member gets 2 free ounces a month. Even at dirt cheap prices, that's going to save a member what, $500.00 a month? And don't forget all the "perks" that you're going to get, FOR FREE. Bubble hash? Check! UNREAL edibles? Check!

So now you have 75 pounds, which is 1,200 ounces. Now what if we sell our goods for a top dollar of $130.00 an ounce. Who wouldn't go out of their way for $30 QUARTERS and $130 OUNCES? And it's gotta be good. But our growers care. And we realize, as members, and customers, that Farmer Steve's buds may not be the best looking right now, but he's learning, and it will get better. Besides, you can't beat the price, as a member, or a grower.

That would bring us $150,000 a year. Can we grow and put some $$ (maybe not enough to get anyone a BMW) in our workers pockets on that?

Just a blazed out thought. I imagine there's a LOT of people who are having visions like this. And I think it's only a matter of time before it happens.

[palerider7777]

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.
ROFLMAO 1/2 LB PER PLANT 75+% of grower don't hit that.most don't have big setups like this.most are happy if they get 2 oz's per plant.yes i can see you don't know much about growing but you will soon find out from what your saying.and to get 1/2 lb per plant it takes some veg time.like this if you want to get close to 1/2lb per plant you need to train your plant just growing a str8 up plant not gunna work.it is a full job depending on your setup even then it's alot of work.alil closet setup with floro's or cfl will grow stuff but you will see.

growing for yourself will give you 3 plants at a time to flower. so at the very least it will take you 2 months per cycle just to flower so if u have the right setup "2 rooms" you could go str8 flower each time.depending on how long/big u veg them too will depend on yeild.so lets just say your on every 2 months.to get a lb you would need to veg to atleast 15 or so inches with training. and if the rest of your ducks are in a row u might get the lb. atleast a 1k light setup as well.yes 600 will work but..well never mind u will see.so 1 k + pumps,fans,nutes,water,your time.......do i think 60 an 1/8th is abit much?

yea but thats whats gunna happen going to a shop.someone like myself lets it go for 250 an oz that breaks down to around 31 an 1/8th.do you think that is a rip off? so lets say the grower says no less than 250,for some odd reason people like yourself for some reason think thats a rip off and instead go to a shop and pay double and then bitch about it?i see it all the time everyday.im thinking to myself i just told this guy 250 all day long and he acts like i should give him an oz a month free and sell it to them at 125 each.so if i won't do that they would rather go to a shop"the same place i vendor to since i don't have patients btw".then that same person goes and instead of 250 an oz the end up paying double.

these patients make no sense at all if the grower won't give over oz's per month + cut prices to next to nothing then the peeps would rather go to a shop and then bitch about it.makes no sense.

i'll ask ya this forget all the expenses what is your time worth to you?on top of that everybody that grows is just as hurt as you if not more.atleast they should be as in order to even get the card like i did i had to give 3 years of doc notes ct's mri's so on to get mine.so it's not like the grower is just sum young buck that can run for hours on end no prob.

lets not forget leo still has a hard on for ya too,they find out u grow or nosey peeps next door call in on ya can be just as if it was illegal still.believe me when i say leo does not like you infact they think your scum.then we have the punk thugs that go around all day just sniffing the air to find a grow to go rob.

bottom line is very simple if someone wants to charge 60 an 18/th they have every right to as there is alot more to it than it's easy it's just a weed just throw the seeds where ever and in a few days you have top notch dank meds.far from it but you will see....

[redtails]

That's exactly it, it may be fairly cheap to grow yourself but do you want to invest the time in it not to mention the risks of getting caught? That's all factored into the final price along with many other things & like palerider said the clubs have to make their 50% to stay operating in the "green"...Same thing with anything really, it's cheaper to make/do something yourself if you have the resources & knowhow but most people would rather just go to a shop & have someone else pick it out for ya.

[palerider7777]

I'm convinced that if a person is determined, hard working, focused and humble enough, they can start growing VERY good buds right off the bat. It's going to cost a little $$, but almost every person, EVERY ONE OF US, cuts corners, doesn't follow directions, doesn't read and investigate their subject properly, doesn't ask for enough help, and so on, and THAT is why most people have problems.

I'm not saying that you won't have issues, or that you won't learn a LOT from experience, but I think it can work.

I say this because I was thinking the same thing. At some point, a group of people should come together, divide the upfront costs, assign managers and growers (maybe everyone who can do the work can pitch in like a community garden?) and then equally divide the bounty amongst the members. How do we pay for it? Well, we figure out what our crop will be, and figure out how much hash and kief we will get as well. Then we figure out how much each person gets based on a formula of "what do we have to sell to stay operating"?

Lets say there was 100 people. 300 plants, and we'll say that comes to harvest 4 times a year. What can we guesstimate that each plant will produce, maybe3 ounces at a time, plus the extras? So that's 225 pounds a year. Let's say each member gets 2 free ounces a month. Even at dirt cheap prices, that's going to save a member what, $500.00 a month? And don't forget all the "perks" that you're going to get, FOR FREE. Bubble hash? Check! UNREAL edibles? Check!

So now you have 75 pounds, which is 1,200 ounces. Now what if we sell our goods for a top dollar of $130.00 an ounce. Who wouldn't go out of their way for $30 QUARTERS and $130 OUNCES? And it's gotta be good. But our growers care. And we realize, as members, and customers, that Farmer Steve's buds may not be the best looking right now, but he's learning, and it will get better. Besides, you can't beat the price, as a member, or a grower.

That would bring us $150,000 a year. Can we grow and put some $$ (maybe not enough to get anyone a BMW) in our workers pockets on that?

Just a blazed out thought. I imagine there's a LOT of people who are having visions like this. And I think it's only a matter of time before it happens.
thing is everything looks good on paper it's not until you do it that you see what really happens.150,000 / 100 peeps =1500 a year per person.thats very far from a bmw more like a tricycle lmao.and your harvest will be diffrent everytime.something always throws a wrench in your plan once you get going. thing is looks like you have'nt been in any type of real biz b4 or else you would know this already.when you try to cut throat everyone else starts to do it to the point of noone making anything and then on top of all that when people start to see the 130 oz's they then become even more greedy like u see with lil kids that are'nt raised right.they start to think 130 an oz what a rip off if there selling it at 130 an oz then it must only cost them 20 an oz to produce what a rip off we want it cheaper.but what do i know im just the forum prick i guess?

btw most of the peeps thinks it should be givin away for free your back breaking time means squat to them. to prove it i had a guy call me about becoming my patient but he wanted a deal. i said i can give you an 1/4 oz free a month and 5grams of bubble every other month free then i can go 200 an oz.he said i was a rip off and hung up.....live and learn i guess.

[Delta9Caregivrs]

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.


LOL... 50-100 lbs per year... lol half pound a plant yr gonna harvest... KEEP DREAMING... your numbers are bonkers.... simply cause you have no clue what yr talking about....

[redtails]

1/4 oz free a month and 5grams of bubble every other month free then i can go 200 an oz.

Sounds like a deal to me! Better than you would get on Rx meds, & way better than off the street unless you had an unbelievable hookup. Myself I wouldn't need more than an oz a month & that's probably including selling half to make most of the money back...

[palerider7777]

That's exactly it, it may be fairly cheap to grow yourself but do you want to invest the time in it not to mention the risks of getting caught? That's all factored into the final price along with many other things & like palerider said the clubs have to make their 50% to stay operating in the "green"...Same thing with anything really, it's cheaper to make/do something yourself if you have the resources & knowhow but most people would rather just go to a shop & have someone else pick it out for ya.

this is true+ like i said these shops get pushed around alot as u can see in the news all the time.and 1200 a month shop rent is really low it would have to be a dump of a place to rent at that price.depends on where your at in town too.1200 a month place is setup in a poorer area and is open to guess what more robbers.unless you spend thousands on setting up alarms and barred windows doors and such.then you have to by product then you have to pay for ad space to get your name out there last time i was in biz a half page ad in any good paper or phone book ran 1800 a month,better add your phone bill,lights,biz lic,ins,on and on we go.

it still urks me why when a good grower offers a deal like 1/4 or 1/2 oz a month free + 250 oz's or close to that.people act as if your ripping them off cuase it's"my plants"well if thats the way one wants to look at it then if it's "your" plants then "YOU" NEED TO PAY FOR ALL THE GEAR,ALL THE ELECTRIC EVERY THING,THEN PAY THE GROWER ON TOP OF THAT FOR THE SPACE"RENTAL SPACE" THEN PAY THE GROWER A SALERY FOR THE UP KEEP AND HIS SKILLS TO GROW IT TOP NOTCH.MY PAY SCALE IS 20 AN HOUR X 40+ HOURS A WEEK=800 A WK=3200 A MONTH=38400 A YEAR.GUESS THEM 250 TO 350 OZ'S ARE'NT LOOKING SO BAD ABOUT NOW HUH??? AND THATS AT THE LOW END OF THE SCALE.

[Delta9Caregivrs]

lol... this thread pissed off some hard working growers huh... guess we know ITS ALOT FUCKIN HARDER THAN WALLSTREET

[palerider7777]

lol... this thread pissed off some hard working growers huh... guess we know ITS ALOT FUCKIN HARDER THAN WALLSTREET

lmao naw im not pissed or anything like that it just boggles my mind how people think sometimes.i have never in my life done something where money was involved and it was easy...

[senorx12562]

lmao naw im not pissed or anything like that it just boggles my mind how people think sometimes.i have never in my life done something where money was involved and it was easy...
Given the topic of this thread, Palerider, I had a suspicion you were going to turn up. You are a little more relaxed than the last time you were discussing this topic, which I like to call "Give us socialized medicine"! Operative word being "give" of course.

[palerider7777]

Given the topic of this thread, Palerider, I had a suspicion you were going to turn up. You are a little more relaxed than the last time you were discussing this topic, which I like to call "Give us socialized medicine"! Operative word being "give" of course.

roflmao i was not mad or pissed last time either i guess it's just how i talk.but really not a mad person...

[sittingone]

I think part of the problem here is the thread starter went from admission of ignorance in this area of information he was seeking, to screaming and railing against those in the business very quickly.
If it was an honest discussion you were looking for then you should have kept your thread less aggressive. I happen to agree with some of what you said, but you went on to making assumptions based on incomplete numbers and thinking and coming off a bit too strong. It is a fact of life and capitalism that those in the know will always get a better deal, especially when it does not require a storefront and all that goes along with it to do the deal. Shade tree mechanics are cheaper for a reason. Different overhead. Instead of coming and being so negative about those making $, you should try to find people who are more interested in a collective or cooperative.

The final thing I will say is that you are also unrealistic about thinking too big. Ego will eventually get in the way as a group gets too big and it will be difficult to balance all the issues an operation such as this would require.

Good luck in your search for a better solution, as I know that they are out there.

[lampost]

it still urks me why when a good grower offers a deal like 1/4 or 1/2 oz a month free + 250 oz's or close to that.people act as if your ripping them off cuase it's"my plants"well if thats the way one wants to look at it then if it's "your" plants then "YOU" NEED TO PAY FOR ALL THE GEAR,ALL THE ELECTRIC EVERY THING,THEN PAY THE GROWER ON TOP OF THAT FOR THE SPACE"RENTAL SPACE" THEN PAY THE GROWER A SALERY FOR THE UP KEEP AND HIS SKILLS TO GROW IT TOP NOTCH.MY PAY SCALE IS 20 AN HOUR X 40+ HOURS A WEEK=800 A WK=3200 A MONTH=38400 A YEAR.GUESS THEM 250 TO 350 OZ'S ARE'NT LOOKING SO BAD ABOUT NOW HUH??? AND THATS AT THE LOW END OF THE SCALE.

How many oz's are you gonna get off of that guy's 3 plants? I've seen your grows and you obviously yield pretty well, so what are you looking at maybe 10-12 ozs? And of that 10-12 OZs you're going to give him a total of maybe 1/2 - 3/4 of an OZ from his plants?

Fuck yeah that's a ripoff!! C'mon dude, be a little less greedy and you'll probably pull in a few patients. You could give them an OZ per month (~2.5 ozs) and still have 75% of the product left to sell!!

So, let's say you grow this guy's 3 plants and harvest 12.5 OZs total. So you give the guy an OZ a month (which ends up being about 2.5 ozs until the next harvest is up). So you're left with 10 ozs to sell instead of 12.5. So, if you're selling for $250, you'd profit $2500 instead of $3125.

This way you'll appeal to more patients. If you can get 4 patients (AND I wouldn't think that would be a problem when you offer a free ounce per month) you'd make $10,000 every 2.5 months. That is exactly $1000/week (which equates to a taxed salary of about $75,000). That's not bad...

I would think the few more patients you could pull would make up for any loss in revenue. Even if you don't want to do the full oz, maybe try a free 1/2 OR OZ every 3rd month and 1/2s or 1/4s the other months. This might be more appealing to people....

Do you get much response on CL? Do people want to see your warez?

[palerider7777]

How many oz's are you gonna get off of that guy's 3 plants? I've seen your grows and you obviously yield pretty well, so what are you looking at maybe 10-12 ozs? And of that 10-12 OZs you're going to give him a total of maybe 1/2 - 3/4 of an OZ from his plants?

Fuck yeah that's a ripoff!! C'mon dude, be a little less greedy and you'll probably pull in a few patients. You could give them an OZ per month (~2.5 ozs) and still have 75% of the product left to sell!!

So, let's say you grow this guy's 3 plants and harvest 12.5 OZs total. So you give the guy an OZ a month (which ends up being about 2.5 ozs until the next harvest is up). So you're left with 10 ozs to sell instead of 12.5. So, if you're selling for $250, you'd profit $2500 instead of $3125.

This way you'll appeal to more patients. If you can get 4 patients (AND I wouldn't think that would be a problem when you offer a free ounce per month) you'd make $10,000 every 2.5 months. That is exactly $1000/week (which equates to a taxed salary of about $75,000). That's not bad...

I would think the few more patients you could pull would make up for any loss in revenue. Even if you don't want to do the full oz, maybe try a free 1/2 OR OZ every 3rd month and 1/2s or 1/4s the other months. This might be more appealing to people....

Do you get much response on CL? Do people want to see your warez?everything u said even as neg as it was pointing your finger at me.i have done.i have offered 1oz per month + bubble hash and you know what the response is? i want 2 oz's a month and 125 oz's.so go fig.... nice trying to tell me how to rum my life btw.go be happy and go pay the shop prices they pay 250 to 300 per from growers"the ones you and pfunk think are rip offs"then they sell it back to you for double..makes sense to me.

[FarmerSteve]

Look, I have NEVER claimed to know anything about the business, BUT, BUT, BUT, it does NOT need to be this expensive. PaleRider, I do understand what you're saying about money and people, something always gets jacked.

Like I said, I know it's a pipe dream. Either way, at the end of the day, it's going to be me growing for the wife and I in the garage.

[starter09]

If it was an honest discussion you were looking for then you should have kept your thread less aggressive.
Good luck in your search for a better solution, as I know that they are out there.

Kinda reminds me of stepping on a yellowjackets' nest while fielding a fly ball as a kid. Talking about money gets a lot of stuff flying real fast, don't it?

Aggressive was not the intention - but I do come with a viewpoint, and felt it best to get it upfront. Yeah, it's a cynical, jaundiced viewpoint that most times skews populist. But c'mon guys, if I have to Kubler-Ross my very first, 40+ year-old, pothead utopian fantasy, bear with me. And thanks, sittingone, for the good wishes.

My first point - MMJ is now a marketplace item. In general: Sellers are going to seek max profit, customers are going to seek best deal. There are economies of scale that will favor bigger and quality issues that will favor smaller, growers. Smaller grower's prices will be higher. These are basic economics that will apply here, as elsewhere.

Second - I really believe this is early days, and the situation a year from now will be different, and so on. But that means what we do now matters to what the future looks like.

Third - these were not my numbers, if fact I question many of them. That's why I posted this to get some discussion going. Thanks for the stuff we did get, though.

Palerider - I agree with your points. And 31/8th is a better price than I get from my caregiver. But I'm not sure how typical you are. And a lot of patients have no idea how to find a caregiver.
So $1200 rent is too low; better number? Any commercial real estate folks out there who could give us a better idea?
As to ongoing biz expenses, the guy with the original numbers had a line item for that; do you disagree with his numbers?
$38,400 base for you, okay. And if you need employees for a large-scale grow, what's fair for them? Greenhouse work has long been woefully underpaid (been there, done that)

These are the kind of figures I'd hoped we could start groping toward.

I know yields are impossible to accurately quantify, too many variables - but there are people with experience in growing good quantities, their methods and yields are all over the Web in forum threads, grow diaries and journals.

I think discussions of costs and prices are going to emerge more and more as MJ moves into legality in small, slow steps. I'll bet you they're going to be part of the MMJ discussions at the state legislature this session; I want enough info so I can intelligently take part in the debate.

BTW - Delta9; I had a good strong impression of your operation from posts here. Your ad hominem first post to this really pissed me off, though, because you so obviously failed to RTFPost! and implied ignorance on my part with no basis in fact. Hope you conduct your business more professionally.

[palerider7777]

Look, I have NEVER claimed to know anything about the business, BUT, BUT, BUT, it does NOT need to be this expensive. PaleRider, I do understand what you're saying about money and people, something always gets jacked.

Like I said, I know it's a pipe dream. Either way, at the end of the day, it's going to be me growing for the wife and I in the garage.

and if that is something that is feasible to do then that is great for you to do. infact if 1 can do there own that is best. you know it in and out and there's no if's to what it is or can do for u.

and alot of these guys that bitch about price they want it cheap so they can take all of your hard work and flip it and make them money.sure there are really sick peeps out there that need it and im sure like myself most growers that knew this for a fact about someone would do what they really could to help that person. but go look up the fact stats on who has the card and what they have it for.

most that have it are for minor aches and pains and most beyond that just want to get high lets look at the facts here.out of those that just want to get high not only do they want to get high they want to lowball the ones doing the real work the real risk so they can cut theres off it to keep getting high.then flip the rest to make them money.these people come from the streets and so did the street mindset they are in.do i think any of that is bad? nope not 1 bit it's called human survival.is it wrong for someone wanting to get high and using the "system" to do it? i don't think so,have i ?

no i never touched this stuff ever for any reason until the day i saw my dad dying from cancer and seeing all the bs pills and patches and chemo he was taking and how it was killing him.how weed could have prolonged his life instead of taking it from him.it would have made it able for him to eat,sleep,not throwup so on.those drugs he was taking ended up giving him a stroke and he was in so much pain that he ended up shooting himself in the head in my house"he lived with me so that i could be close and to help him when needed".

after that i myself was hurt on the job with other things like ddd,and such that i have had my whole life but still would work 120+ hours a week non stop for months.it was how i was raised by my dad,he was a force recon marine.

the reason i know so much of the street and how it works is because of my bro and family thats how they are hard core.stupid i say but thats how they are.

so i know both sides very well and how people think. and im fine with whatever i just see that these people that whine and cry and so on don't know shit about shit they just want a free hand out in the name of this "compassion" bs.but when u ask them u do it and i want u to do what your saying everyone should do then it's like"where'd ya go??"oh u ment everyone else but not you? as jack/melvin says think white and get real im not doing it.....lmao

[copobo]

they aren't YOUR plants until they are in YOUR space being cared for by YOU at YOUR risk.

If the economics of what other people are doing bugs ya, go pick up some lights and some dirt. though for your yields, I would suggest some coco and a pretty nice DWC setup, and 40-80 hours a week to tend the grow, trim, harvest, clone, clean...

and if anyone knows where there is 1000 feet of commercial space in Boulder County for $1200 NNN, let me know! LOL

all that said, >$15 a gram is bullshit, in anyone's economy. it's much better to give your caregiver rights to a grower than a dispensary. growers can treat you better without a middleman. it's just harder to meet a grower and get the offer..

[palerider7777]

Kinda reminds me of stepping on a yellowjackets' nest while fielding a fly ball as a kid. Talking about money gets a lot of stuff flying real fast, don't it?

Aggressive was not the intention - but I do come with a viewpoint, and felt it best to get it upfront. Yeah, it's a cynical, jaundiced viewpoint that most times skews populist. But c'mon guys, if I have to Kubler-Ross my very first, 40+ year-old, pothead utopian fantasy, bear with me. And thanks, sittingone, for the good wishes.

My first point - MMJ is now a marketplace item. In general: Sellers are going to seek max profit, customers are going to seek best deal. There are economies of scale that will favor bigger and quality issues that will favor smaller, growers. Smaller grower's prices will be higher. These are basic economics that will apply here, as elsewhere.

Second - I really believe this is early days, and the situation a year from now will be different, and so on. But that means what we do now matters to what the future looks like.

Third - these were not my numbers, if fact I question many of them. That's why I posted this to get some discussion going. Thanks for the stuff we did get, though.

Palerider - I agree with your points. And 31/8th is a better price than I get from my caregiver. But I'm not sure how typical you are. And a lot of patients have no idea how to find a caregiver.
So $1200 rent is too low; better number? Any commercial real estate folks out there who could give us a better idea?
As to ongoing biz expenses, the guy with the original numbers had a line item for that; do you disagree with his numbers?
$38,400 base for you, okay. And if you need employees for a large-scale grow, what's fair for them? Greenhouse work has long been woefully underpaid (been there, done that)

These are the kind of figures I'd hoped we could start groping toward.

I know yields are impossible to accurately quantify, too many variables - but there are people with experience in growing good quantities, their methods and yields are all over the Web in forum threads, grow diaries and journals.

I think discussions of costs and prices are going to emerge more and more as MJ moves into legality in small, slow steps. I'll bet you they're going to be part of the MMJ discussions at the state legislature this session; I want enough info so I can intelligently take part in the debate.

BTW - Delta9; I had a good strong impression of your operation from posts here. Your ad hominem first post to this really pissed me off, though, because you so obviously failed to RTFPost! and implied ignorance on my part with no basis in fact. Hope you conduct your business more professionally.
some of this could be true but the thing is we don't know whats in line for us just yet,notice it has been a big fight every step of the way.the norm is the harder things are or become the higher the price gets. as it's more difficult to produce.as you can see every other day now the state/counties are trying there best. to throw as many wrenches in the cog wheels as they can around here.everything from shutting down shops to trying to redefine "caregiver"to many other things going on.

i don't ever see it going to much cheaper than it is. see i think alot of people like yourself even maybe?think like you said above"now a marketplace item" this way of thinking can be somewhat cloudy in a way.see once you start thinking like that it's in your mind to think just look at t'vs lcd's 3 years ago a 42 inch would run upwards of 2k+ now you can get them for under 1k. so then you start thinking your meds should do the same?? here's the problem with that way of thinking,first tv's keep getting better and better same with any electronic.weed is weed and it will always be what it is,will it vary a bit in taste,smell,potence? sure but no way like the marketplace items.

look at pharma drugs do you see oxy's lortabs and such going to rock bottom prices? they have been around how long now? when your doc writes you a script for meds do you bitch him out for the price of his visit? do you go to walgreens and bitch them out or call them rip off's? people have been programmed into accepting certain things as"thats just how it is".all the while being happy as a lark to deal with that "shady" street dealer and him shorting you when ever he pleases.selling you bunk but passing it off as"the fire".

but as soon as it becomes legal people act as if it should be given away?that still urks me.if your looking at it as meds where do people come up with that it should be free or next to nothing in the name of "compassion".it's a drug like any other,it takes someones time, labor,money and so on to produce.do you dictate pharma meds prices? this way of thinking is what is giving the state ammo against us saying we can not regulate this our selfs so they need to jump in.people need to wake up to this fact.

u might then say good we want that? i think not that 60 an 1/8 th just shot up to 120 or better.how? well gov gets into it they will 1 tax the hell outta it alot more than now,then they will make you go to doc as he's the one with "knowledge" and he needs to write the scripts then you will have to go buy it.im sure they will find a way to make it where you can't grow it from all the dangers they say come with it all.don't forget leo still calls it a bad gateway drug.

ps instead of focusing on price one needs to focus on how/what we need to do to get more power and rights better limits and so on instead of price.while the ones crying about prices the state is doing everything they can to take as much of our voted rights back as much as they can.you have to have your priorities in line. don't think that everything is fine and it's just legal now cause it's not.

[FarmerSteve]

What we have to hope for is that the government doesn't take over production rights. I'm sure they'd rather have ALL of the money from a $100 sale than just $8 in the form of taxes. :(

I want to make sure that I am clear that I KNOW that growing good to great bud is difficult and time consuming, but it is not impossible. I find that almost everyone at EVERY level chooses the path of least resistance and that's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in here in America. How little can I do?

No matter what it has ever been, I always succeed, because I TRY. So I'm not worried about the work aspect of it. On the other hand, I had no idea there were so many scammers in the marketplace, coming from the "patient" side of things. But it's no surprise.

We don't lack good ideas, it seems we're lacking good people. :(

[PufferLungs]

I have dreams of 2 rooms. One for vegging and the other for flowering.

I'd want to let my girls grow 6 months from clones to harvest as I feel that would provide the best yield. It sure would be cool to start 1 new plant every month. It'll take you 6 months before the first plant is ready, but from there on out you're harvesting 2oz or 3oz every month.

I smoke about 1/4oz - 1/2oz a month, so thats a lot of surplus for me.

Of course I'll have to move out of this apartment before that dream ever come anywhere close to reality. I won't take the risk of growing in my apartment.

[redtails]

What we have to hope for is that the government doesn't take over production rights. I'm sure they'd rather have ALL of the money from a $100 sale than just $8 in the form of taxes. :(

I want to make sure that I am clear that I KNOW that growing good to great bud is difficult and time consuming, but it is not impossible. I find that almost everyone at EVERY level chooses the path of least resistance and that's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in here in America. How little can I do?

No matter what it has ever been, I always succeed, because I TRY. So I'm not worried about the work aspect of it. On the other hand, I had no idea there were so many scammers in the marketplace, coming from the "patient" side of things. But it's no surprise.

We don't lack good ideas, it seems we're lacking good people. :(

It's the same with any aspect of the black market especially, or really any profitable market. There's some good & some bad, you just have to be careful.

[palerider7777]

It's the same with any aspect of the black market especially, or really any profitable market. There's some good & some bad, you just have to be careful.

the gov is who created the black market,things like mj that should never have had to been labeled as such to begin with.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

your forgetting about down time there is gap in production to patient time. your legal fees , consultation,and biz plan way too low. 50-100lbs are you kidding?? at that rate you will need a much higher service bill. and as a pro you will need to accomadate pros and cons that are inherent with growing. losses are the same for indoor as for outdoor.

meded so you can mededicate to mededitate

[ColoradoCareMMJ]

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.


Well your numbers are a bit skewed. First of all a 1000 sqft is not nearly sufficient to produce the amount that you believe should be harvested (50-100lbs annually). Managing that you can find a landlord willing to facilitate such a high risk venture and not double the rent on you, then you are on a start.

Now 1000 per month for electricity, again if your looking to produce large quantites of cannabis your electric bill will not be this low.

I dont know of any trimmers who will work for 1000 per month, unless they are working very slowly or very few hours. The going rate is usually 200 per pound and it usually takes them a day or two to trim a pound. So if you can do 3lbs in a week your looking at a salary to 2400 per month, per trimmer.

Now yields... you say 48 plants mature to get 50 lbs. Your looking at a long time in veg and having to use a commercially viable high yielding strain to achieve these numbers, and this is using up every inch of the warehouse youve indicated. If your vegging plants for that long your going to need a pretty large sized vegitation room. Now you say "high quality top notch" cannabis. Well most people do not tend to designate high yielding commercial strains as quality, many of the potent resinous strains that patients tend to benefit from are usually low yielding thus making it an even harder job to produce the quantities you speak of....

I think some people tend to look to much at the quick numbers without really acknowledging all the over head and time spent. Theres alot of money that goes in, but there is sure a heck of alot of money that gets spent...

I emplore anyone who believes that there is such easy money in this industry to test their luck. Most find out that the money is not quite as easy as they expected. Think about it, if there were such huge profits to be made, the growers who have been growing for 40+ years would have retired 20 years ago...:thumbsup:

[palerider7777]

Well your numbers are a bit skewed. First of all a 1000 sqft is not nearly sufficient to produce the amount that you believe should be harvested (50-100lbs annually). Managing that you can find a landlord willing to facilitate such a high risk venture and not double the rent on you, then you are on a start.

Now 1000 per month for electricity, again if your looking to produce large quantites of cannabis your electric bill will not be this low.

I dont know of any trimmers who will work for 1000 per month, unless they are working very slowly or very few hours. The going rate is usually 200 per pound and it usually takes them a day or two to trim a pound. So if you can do 3lbs in a week your looking at a salary to 2400 per month, per trimmer.

Now yields... you say 48 plants mature to get 50 lbs. Your looking at a long time in veg and having to use a commercially viable high yielding strain to achieve these numbers, and this is using up every inch of the warehouse youve indicated. If your vegging plants for that long your going to need a pretty large sized vegitation room. Now you say "high quality top notch" cannabis. Well most people do not tend to designate high yielding commercial strains as quality, many of the potent resinous strains that patients tend to benefit from are usually low yielding thus making it an even harder job to produce the quantities you speak of....

I think some people tend to look to much at the quick numbers without really acknowledging all the over head and time spent. Theres alot of money that goes in, but there is sure a heck of alot of money that gets spent...

I emplore anyone who believes that there is such easy money in this industry to test their luck. Most find out that the money is not quite as easy as they expected. Think about it, if there were such huge profits to be made, the growers who have been growing for 40+ years would have retired 20 years ago...:thumbsup:
thats pretty much what iv'e been saying me not thinks many people really know what there talking about most of it is bs street talk thinking they know something.hell just a 1ksqft building would produce a 1k a month electric bill by it's then to hook up enough light to pull 50 lbs lmao yea ok.lets try 4 to 6k a month for that kindda light. it's funny to hear people think...

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

growers retire? naw we just keep on keepin on. mj is not addictive growing it is. passion is what made the high grade you see today.


meded so you can mededicate to mededitate

[ColoradoCareMMJ]

thats pretty much what iv'e been saying me not thinks many people really know what there talking about most of it is bs street talk thinking they know something.hell just a 1ksqft building would produce a 1k a month electric bill by it's then to hook up enough light to pull 50 lbs lmao yea ok.lets try 4 to 6k a month for that kindda light. it's funny to hear people think...


Its kind of like the people you see on late night informercials standing next to a ferrari and some mansion in south beach claiming they were just a loser like you until they started selling real estate from the jack ass in the commercial.

If there was "easy money" out there, we would ALL be after it. Hell, even ol' Bernie Madoff found out his easy money wasnt so easy.....

[palerider7777]

Its kind of like the people you see on late night informercials standing next to a ferrari and some mansion in south beach claiming they were just a loser like you until they started selling real estate from the jack ass in the commercial.

If there was "easy money" out there, we would ALL be after it. Hell, even ol' Bernie Madoff found out his easy money wasnt so easy.....

lmao so true,people like my mom would fall for that shit every time.they watch the 2 hour "ad" and then go around telling everybody about it as if they were the ones teaching it.yet they never done the shit themselfs lmao.

[MEDEDCANNABIS]

its one thing to grow a couple of plants, most do not understand the work and the problems associated with large grows. whole new ball game. they act like they just grow themselves without realizing nutes, ph, temperature, ventilaion,cleaning and sanatizing, etc on a large scale can be daunting. now for a first timer...failure.

meded so you can mededicate to mededitate

[PufferLungs]

I'll venture a guess and say 95% of the meds we are buying in the dispensaries is being grown by amateurs. First or second crop growers.

Which explains why most of it ain't worth the prices they are charging. Dispensaries are charging top shelf prices for mediocre weed. They are charging $100 for 1/4oz of weed that I would have paid about $65 or $70 on the street. The potency and taste just isn't there.

That should get better as more people venture into growing and hopefully some of them will get better at it - even GOOD at it. But I have a feeling the dispensaries days are numbered. Competition is going to kill the poor ones and good growers/caregivers are sucking up patients almost as fast as you can say, "Where can I find a caregiver?"

Once the majority of people find a good caregiver - they'll avoid the mediocre weed being tossed about by the dispensaries with their price gouging.

I wouldn't mind paying $100 per 1/4 if it was GOOD. But $100 a 1/4 for what I've found so far, at the dispensaries, is just wrong. I've found some decent stuff, but none of it has been as good as the shit you used to find on the street when you were looking for a $100 1/4.

[lampost]

I'll venture a guess and say 95% of the meds we are buying in the dispensaries is being grown by amateurs. First or second crop growers.

Which explains why most of it ain't worth the prices they are charging. Dispensaries are charging top shelf prices for mediocre weed. They are charging $100 for 1/4oz of weed that I would have paid about $65 or $70 on the street. The potency and taste just isn't there.

That should get better as more people venture into growing and hopefully some of them will get better at it - even GOOD at it. But I have a feeling the dispensaries days are numbered. Competition is going to kill the poor ones and good growers/caregivers are sucking up patients almost as fast as you can say, "Where can I find a caregiver?"

Once the majority of people find a good caregiver - they'll avoid the mediocre weed being tossed about by the dispensaries with their price gouging.

I wouldn't mind paying $100 per 1/4 if it was GOOD. But $100 a 1/4 for what I've found so far, at the dispensaries, is just wrong. I've found some decent stuff, but none of it has been as good as the shit you used to find on the street when you were looking for a $100 1/4.

I just saw something on Denver Chronicle (GREAT WORK on your blog Dietblone!) that said that Denver has more dispensaries than liquor stores, starbucks, and schools... that is FUCKED up!

Hopefully they won't regulate and competition alone will thin the herd. As of now it really doesn't seem to be hurting much of anything at all. It almost seems that the perceived need for regulation is being driven by the attention Denver is getting over this... and the politician's feelings that they're on the national stage.

[ganjagr1]

I'm a new grower -- I've been doing this for 10 months now and let me tell you, I am not getting rich quick growing ganja. It doesn't matter that it's legal. And I'm not ripping anyone off because my "patients" are my uncle and my mother. Yes, they give me some money, but it's about $75 an ounce.

I had to outfit my basement for growing, which meant a light-tight bloom room and an open (but warm) veg room. I had to buy lumber, panda plastic, lights, fans, filters, A/C, CO2, water chiller, pH & ppm meters, and god knows how much other stuff to run my hydro setup. I hired a handyman to help me construct the bloom room (I told him it was a dark room for a photography class) and I also needed some electrical and plumbing work. Finally, I needed genetics. All in all, it cost me about $15,000 to set up... and I haven't made $15,000 yet.

I spend over $300/month on power alone. I work a part time job then come home to take care of the garden. I work more than 12 hours a day and there is always something coming up.

pHs get out of whack. Powdery mildew. Weird white fuzzy mold (I don't know what it is yet, but Serenade seems to keep it at bay). Spider mites. Fungus gnats. Res leak. Aero-cloner mysteriously dies (needed a replacement pump for some reason). Root rot. A light leak and suddenly 3 plants go hermaphrodite. Seeds suck.

I am not making a profit. I think it might be cheaper to grow my own, but it sure would be easier to just buy it in a store. Thing is, I was worried about quality too. I wanted potent strains and harvests that were well-flushed and well-cured. So I decided to do it myself since my mom has MS and is in a lot of pain. I didn't want her vaporizing pesticides or something that didn't help with her pain.

If there is anyone out there who's making a profit giving meds away to your patients, I would love to know your secret. Since I've started this operation, I have a lot more appreciation for farmers and farm workers. Plants need a lot of care. You can't just go away for a weekend. You have to maintain the lights, the temps, the water levels, and always watch for mold and bugs.

It's exhausting. And trust me, dirt is no easier. You've got to keep track of soil pHs, too. You have all the same issues with dirt -- root rot, root bound, too close to the light, too hot, too cold, fungus gnats, good grief.

If you're fed up with dispensaries, go ahead and grow your own. But don't start growing thinking it's cheap or easy. That first harvest is a real rush, but once the bud is dry, it rarely weighs as much as you hoped it would. And if you don't cure it carefully, it will end up smelling like grass. Ew. While you can sell your leftover meds to other patients, you have to serve your own patients' needs first. Those who aren't your patients should pay more because you didn't grow a bunch of extra plants for them. It's just supply and demand.

As for hash and edibles making you rich... It takes a day to make hash, 12 hours for oil or butter (I use the crock pot method), and another day to actually cook with the oil or butter. Plus, I don't think you're supposed to sell edibles unless you operate out of a commercial kitchen... which is more $$$ in rent.

Yes, they are your plants. But unless you have a kind relative willing to care for them for you, be willing to pay. After all, you are allowed to buy potatoes in Colorado, too... but you have to pay for the potatoes at the store or buy equipment to grow your own.

[throatstick]

I'm a new grower -- I've been doing this for 10 months now and let me tell you, I am not getting rich quick growing ganja. It doesn't matter that it's legal. And I'm not ripping anyone off because my "patients" are my uncle and my mother. Yes, they give me some money, but it's about $75 an ounce.

I had to outfit my basement for growing, which meant a light-tight bloom room and an open (but warm) veg room. I had to buy lumber, panda plastic, lights, fans, filters, A/C, CO2, water chiller, pH & ppm meters, and god knows how much other stuff to run my hydro setup. I hired a handyman to help me construct the bloom room (I told him it was a dark room for a photography class) and I also needed some electrical and plumbing work. Finally, I needed genetics. All in all, it cost me about $15,000 to set up... and I haven't made $15,000 yet.

I spend over $300/month on power alone. I work a part time job then come home to take care of the garden. I work more than 12 hours a day and there is always something coming up.

pHs get out of whack. Powdery mildew. Weird white fuzzy mold (I don't know what it is yet, but Serenade seems to keep it at bay). Spider mites. Fungus gnats. Res leak. Aero-cloner mysteriously dies (needed a replacement pump for some reason). Root rot. A light leak and suddenly 3 plants go hermaphrodite. Seeds suck.

I am not making a profit. I think it might be cheaper to grow my own, but it sure would be easier to just buy it in a store. Thing is, I was worried about quality too. I wanted potent strains and harvests that were well-flushed and well-cured. So I decided to do it myself since my mom has MS and is in a lot of pain. I didn't want her vaporizing pesticides or something that didn't help with her pain.

If there is anyone out there who's making a profit giving meds away to your patients, I would love to know your secret. Since I've started this operation, I have a lot more appreciation for farmers and farm workers. Plants need a lot of care. You can't just go away for a weekend. You have to maintain the lights, the temps, the water levels, and always watch for mold and bugs.

It's exhausting. And trust me, dirt is no easier. You've got to keep track of soil pHs, too. You have all the same issues with dirt -- root rot, root bound, too close to the light, too hot, too cold, fungus gnats, good grief.

If you're fed up with dispensaries, go ahead and grow your own. But don't start growing thinking it's cheap or easy. That first harvest is a real rush, but once the bud is dry, it rarely weighs as much as you hoped it would. And if you don't cure it carefully, it will end up smelling like grass. Ew. While you can sell your leftover meds to other patients, you have to serve your own patients' needs first. Those who aren't your patients should pay more because you didn't grow a bunch of extra plants for them. It's just supply and demand.

As for hash and edibles making you rich... It takes a day to make hash, 12 hours for oil or butter (I use the crock pot method), and another day to actually cook with the oil or butter. Plus, I don't think you're supposed to sell edibles unless you operate out of a commercial kitchen... which is more $$$ in rent.

Yes, they are your plants. But unless you have a kind relative willing to care for them for you, be willing to pay. After all, you are allowed to buy potatoes in Colorado, too... but you have to pay for the potatoes at the store or buy equipment to grow your own.

exp is the best teacher. will knock down the ones that think they know it all a peg or 2.glad to see someone tell the truth too.it's the same as anything else sure you can grow watermelon yourself. but with all the time and effort and pests and so on.odds are it might not even make it.spend money and time all on an if it makes it.once someone does that and sees the truth about it.i'd say 95% would say fuck that im gunna go buy a watermelon at the store 5, 6 bucks no prob besides i wanted to eat it now anyways not months from now lmao.

[Justabloke]

this "compassion" bs.


:angry3:

Wow! I have to say I take great exception to that!!!

I was down at NatuRx where Dianna took VERY good care of me and has some of the lowest priced (top shelf) meds. I paid $43 an 1/8 for some outstanding White Widow X Northern Lights.

She, also, has high-quality meds for around $38 an 1/8? If she can do it anyone can do it. Yes, I think everyone who is legally able should make money as it is the way they make their living in most cases. But price gougeing like many of them do is totally unacceptable in this day and age. We're legal now...we should have to pay street prices or worse MORE.

So as I'm checking out, I asked if they had a donation jar where patients could donate towards other patients who don't enough money for their meds. She told me they did not. So I said as I slid a $1 over the counter "can you pay this forward to a patient who doesn't have enough, please?"

I did it out of compassion knowing how hard it can be to get and keep your stock of meds. I'll prolly never know who not only this dollar but many others I have donated towards patients and their need for meds.

I think if we all did that not only for other patients but to fight stupid stuff like 1284 we'd be in a MUCH better spot! Yes that is in spite of the fact that many disps got ripped off and sold down the river by a core group of people who were supposed to be activists.

What I did I did out of compassion for fellow patients/humans who I'll prolly never meet. I just hope my dollar goes to help someone that needs it and maybe the good karma will come back to me someday when I need it.

In fact, in some ways it already has. Jake over at RLC offered me a free joint (which I completely intend on takeing him up on when I'm over that way!!! lol)

If we were all a lil more compassionate not only would OUR community be a whole lot better, our COUNTRY would be a whole lot better too.

That's just my (not so) humble opinion. Call me a bleeding heart liberal if you must and YES I DO hug trees too! ROFL

JaB

[rum2run]

welcome to farming it's a hard business not for stoners if you don't have the passion for botany stay out of the business

[throatstick]

:angry3:

Wow! I have to say I take great exception to that!!!

I was down at NatuRx where Dianna took VERY good care of me and has some of the lowest priced (top shelf) meds. I paid $43 an 1/8 for some outstanding White Widow X Northern Lights.

She, also, has high-quality meds for around $38 an 1/8? If she can do it anyone can do it. Yes, I think everyone who is legally able should make money as it is the way they make their living in most cases. But price gougeing like many of them do is totally unacceptable in this day and age. We're legal now...we should have to pay street prices or worse MORE.

So as I'm checking out, I asked if they had a donation jar where patients could donate towards other patients who don't enough money for their meds. She told me they did not. So I said as I slid a $1 over the counter "can you pay this forward to a patient who doesn't have enough, please?"

I did it out of compassion knowing how hard it can be to get and keep your stock of meds. I'll prolly never know who not only this dollar but many others I have donated towards patients and their need for meds.

I think if we all did that not only for other patients but to fight stupid stuff like 1284 we'd be in a MUCH better spot! Yes that is in spite of the fact that many disps got ripped off and sold down the river by a core group of people who were supposed to be activists.

What I did I did out of compassion for fellow patients/humans who I'll prolly never meet. I just hope my dollar goes to help someone that needs it and maybe the good karma will come back to me someday when I need it.

In fact, in some ways it already has. Jake over at RLC offered me a free joint (which I completely intend on takeing him up on when I'm over that way!!! lol)

If we were all a lil more compassionate not only would OUR community be a whole lot better, our COUNTRY would be a whole lot better too.

That's just my (not so) humble opinion. Call me a bleeding heart liberal if you must and YES I DO hug trees too! ROFL

JaB

i think it was ment as in the whole bs basis that mmj is built on.it's ok for you to use but not the"bloke" down the street? how is it compassion to allow 1 group to do something when everyone should be allowed to do it to.as in the people that allow mmj"the gov" based on"compassion" let me ask you does this bill they just passed look like compassion to you?

[throatstick]

welcome to farming it's a hard business not for stoners if you don't have the passion for botany stay out of the business

agreed it's alot more than tossing seed out and coming back to harvest.i laugh at the dumb shits that say shit like that..guess all they have had was mexi brick so they think thats all there is?lmao

[puntacometa]

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

I have done this. How experienced a grower are you? If you are inexperienced, nothing is going to go exactly as you planned. I would add at least 1/3 to your overhead costs and reduce your expected gross by $30k. That's about right for the first year...oh yeah.....and if you're growing in dirt, be ready to hump 48 large pots in and out of a blacked out room during the flowering cycle when growing outdoors.....you will want to take advantage of the direct sunlight. Also, if you're going to keep a healthy indoor grow and go for large yields, plan on having at least 15' of overhead and plan for 16 sq ft. per plant (4' x 4') with 12" of walkway between each one.

[Justabloke]

agreed it's alot more than tossing seed out and coming back to harvest.i laugh at the dumb shits that say shit like that..guess all they have had was mexi brick so they think thats all there is?lmao

lol I tryed that once. It didn't work.

j

[TheReleafCenter]

I have done this. How experienced a grower are you? If you are inexperienced, nothing is going to go exactly as you planned. I would add at least 1/3 to your overhead costs and reduce your expected gross by $30k. That's about right for the first year...oh yeah.....and if you're growing in dirt, be ready to hump 48 large pots in and out of a blacked out room during the flowering cycle when growing outdoors.....you will want to take advantage of the direct sunlight. Also, if you're going to keep a healthy indoor grow and go for large yields, plan on having at least 15' of overhead and plan for 16 sq ft. per plant (4' x 4') with 12" of walkway between each one.

Did anyone actually read his post? The numbers were from a source online. He clearly states at the end that he's learning how to grow and doesn't have the experience to know whether they're good numbers or not.

[rightwinger]

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.


I have to laugh at this post. First of all don't quit your day job--LOL. I equate growing medical marijuana in Colorado to growing a tropical plant out-side in winter time in Colorado. I thought it was going to be "real" easy--after all it's just a weed. And as we know weeds grow "wild" in Colorado and most of us spend a lot of time out in our backs yards trying to get rid of them each and every summer.

Nope--growing marijuana is a real chore, and requires a lot of time and attention. As far as the larger commercial grows, it doesn't suprise me that they would spend--30 thousand dollars per grow area. First of all one needs professionals. Electricians--heating--air-conditioning--and many other qualified licensed professionals to keep a project running smoothly. Qualified--licensed electricians in the state of Colorado are not what you consider cheap help. But they keep your home from burning down--and you from electricuting yourself. Water and electricity have never gotten along with one another.

Then one deals with the indoor aspect of keeping a grow room in a tropical mood. Now during our winters means a very large utility bill. During the summers it means a very large utility bill keeping the room cool.

Then you get to deal with all of the indoor plant BUGS that are typical. Spider mites, Thripe, etc. etc. etc.--that all require lots of expensive bug remover. BTW--all of these bugs develope a resistance to these products--so it is a continual on-going problem.

While many people believe that dispensories charge to much--if you had up all this cost to grow it, plus taxes, leased property--employees, etc.--it doesn't surprise me in the least.

While we have had some real stupid people make some very stupid comments in the news media over the last several months--there is no one getting "rich" off of opening up a medical marijuana dispensory.

[rightwinger]

I have to laugh at this post. First of all don't quit your day job--LOL. I equate growing medical marijuana in Colorado to growing a tropical plant out-side in winter time in Colorado. I thought it was going to be "real" easy--after all it's just a weed. And as we know weeds grow "wild" in Colorado and most of us spend a lot of time out in our backs yards trying to get rid of them each and every summer.

Nope--growing marijuana is a real chore, and requires a lot of time and attention. As far as the larger commercial grows, it doesn't suprise me that they would spend--30 thousand dollars per grow area. First of all one needs professionals. Electricians--heating--air-conditioning--and many other qualified licensed professionals to keep a project running smoothly. Qualified--licensed electricians in the state of Colorado are not what you consider cheap help. But they keep your home from burning down--and you from electricuting yourself. Water and electricity have never gotten along with one another.

Then one deals with the indoor aspect of keeping a grow room in a tropical mood. Now during our winters means a very large utility bill. During the summers it means a very large utility bill keeping the room cool.

Then you get to deal with all of the indoor plant BUGS that are typical. Spider mites, Thripe, etc. etc. etc.--that all require lots of expensive bug remover. BTW--all of these bugs develope a resistance to these products--so it is a continual on-going problem.

While many people believe that dispensories charge to much--if you had up all this cost to grow it, plus taxes, leased property--employees, etc.--it doesn't surprise me in the least.

While we have had some real stupid people make some very stupid comments in the news media over the last several months--there is no one getting "rich" off of opening up a medical marijuana dispensory.


Furthermore to my above comment--the opt states expect a 1/2 pound yield per plant--I will add--only in your "[U]wildest dreams"/U]--LOL. Even under indoor supreme conditions--meaning nutrients--CO2--1000 watt lighting NEVER expect more than 4 ounces per plant--no matter what anyone tells you. Consider yourself lucky to get even close to that. Most marijuana plants even under supreme conditions (depending on the plant) will only yield 1 to 2.5 ounces per plant--sometimes even less than 1 ounce.

For closet growers using florescent lighting expect even less than that per plant.

[Dorje113]

Furthermore to my above comment--the opt states expect a 1/2 pound yield per plant--I will add--only in your "[U]wildest dreams"/U]--LOL. Even under indoor supreme conditions--meaning nutrients--CO2--1000 watt lighting NEVER expect more than 4 ounces per plant--no matter what anyone tells you. Consider yourself lucky to get even close to that. Most marijuana plants even under supreme conditions (depending on the plant) will only yield 1 to 2.5 ounces per plant--sometimes even less than 1 ounce.

For closet growers using florescent lighting expect even less than that per plant.

Yield per plant only matters if you're plant-limited (rather than limited by space or light). If you are plant limited, you can still yield 1+ lbs per plant with longer veg time and proper training techniques. If you are self-contained and don't want clone and veg time to exceed flowering time, but are still trying to maximize yield per plant then 1/2 lb is reasonable, I've averaged 3/4 recently.

[rightwinger]

Yield per plant only matters if you're plant-limited (rather than limited by space or light). If you are plant limited, you can still yield 1+ lbs per plant with longer veg time and proper training techniques. If you are self-contained and don't want clone and veg time to exceed flowering time, but are still trying to maximize yield per plant then 1/2 lb is reasonable, I've averaged 3/4 recently.


LOL--yeah you bet--LOL What's your veg time--5 years--LOL?

[throatstick]

LOL--yeah you bet--LOL What's your veg time--5 years--LOL?

sorry bro to break it to ya 4oz is piss poor.i can veg for 1 month and yeild 12+oz's dry without trying.i know guys that yeild 3 lbs per indoors alotta light tho but it is doable...

[puntacometa]

your forgetting about down time there is gap in production to patient time. your legal fees , consultation,and biz plan way too low. 50-100lbs are you kidding?? at that rate you will need a much higher service bill. and as a pro you will need to accomadate pros and cons that are inherent with growing. losses are the same for indoor as for outdoor.

meded so you can mededicate to mededitate

He's also forgetting about nutes and (if he's growing in dirt) soil....big expense there unless you have lots of rotted manure laying around. Also there's the Serenade and/or other PM control remedies he may need for his outdoor grow if he doesn't want to just shitcan the plants if some of his strains start showing those wonderful little gray spots and the "organic" insecticides he will need for the rest of the winter the minute he sees the first mite damage in his indoor grow room....oh yeah.....20 x 1000W HID's with 12 of them running 12/12 and 8 of them running 18 x 6 is going to cost around $1100.00 per month......plus the occasional bulb replacement (these ain't cheap)...plus he's going to need a couple of extra ballasts and a few extra bulbs on hand at all times...just in case.

[rightwinger]

sorry bro to break it to ya 4oz is piss poor.i can veg for 1 month and yeild 12+oz's dry without trying.i know guys that yeild 3 lbs per indoors alotta light tho but it is doable...


Yeah--whatever--LOL

[throatstick]

Yeah--whatever--LOL

really? lmao ok

this was just the top.i veg all clones 1 month with training and thats it.from seed i might go 5 weeks depends tho.you can think or believe what ya want.i have no reason to lie...i could grow alot bigger than that and it would still be just as potent as those guys saying things like"i don't grow for yeild i would rather grow for stronger meds" what a crock......you still think im full of shit go look up doubled's grows or heathrobinsons grows.just because you have never seen it or cause you don't see these kindda grows on canna.com don't mean it is'nt so..

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

Both DoubleD & Heath are growing some monsters! But it's taken them trial & error, lots of learning experience and getting everything dialed in. Luckily for the rest of us, we can learn from their mistakes and get great yields. :thumbsup:

[throatstick]

Both DoubleD & Heath are growing some monsters! But it's taken them trial & error, lots of learning experience and getting everything dialed in. Luckily for the rest of us, we can learn from their mistakes and get great yields. :thumbsup:

yup,,,so you know im not making shit up then.and yes they have alot of money tied up in what they are doing but it works.heck i pulled 30 oz's off 2 plants on my very first grow.it's all about how aware you are and if you have ever had a passion in your life then you know how knowledge thristy you can get.it's like you're brain becomes new again and you can't get enough.the whole he's got a green thumb is not true. it's more like this person took the time to gain the knowledge needed cause they want to be great at what they do.thats anything in life tho.most don't have that fire thats needed they just don't for whatever reason.

[rightwinger]

really? lmao ok

this was just the top.i veg all clones 1 month with training and thats it.from seed i might go 5 weeks depends tho.you can think or believe what ya want.i have no reason to lie...i could grow alot bigger than that and it would still be just as potent as those guys saying things like"i don't grow for yeild i would rather grow for stronger meds" what a crock......you still think im full of shit go look up doubled's grows or heathrobinsons grows.just because you have never seen it or cause you don't see these kindda grows on canna.com don't mean it is'nt so..

Thanks for the info-I will look it up--but I am assuming by your comment that says "doubled's grows" that you are using 2 clones per each which equates to two plants? I am talking about 1 plant. I know one dispensory--owner grower in another state that produces alot for their patients-and has been doing so for years. Even they state do not expect more than 4 0z. per plant--regardless of the plant. They use the most expensive soil-- nutrients (again the most expensive) and 1000 watt lights everywhere--heating--cooling systems--fresh filter air, CO2 etc. etc. 4 oz's max per plant.

Even the dispensory I use in Colorado can't seem to get more than 13 grams per plant from SSI. And he has been growing for years also. He is always behind the 8 ball because he runs out so fast--and there is so much demand from his patients for it.

[rightwinger]

Thanks for the info-I will look it up--but I am assuming by your comment that says "doubled's grows" that you are using 2 clones per each which equates to two plants? I am talking about 1 plant. I know one dispensory--owner grower in another state that produces alot for their patients-and has been doing so for years. Even they state do not expect more than 4 0z. per plant--regardless of the plant. They use the most expensive soil-- nutrients (again the most expensive) and 1000 watt lights everywhere--heating--cooling systems--fresh filter air, CO2 etc. etc. 4 oz's max per plant.

Even the dispensory I use in Colorado can't seem to get more than 13 grams per plant from SSI. And he has been growing for years also. He is always behind the 8 ball because he runs out so fast--and there is so much demand from his patients for it.

To add to my comment--I am talking about professional growers that have had years and years of experience with indoor growing--that have tried everything in the book to get their yeilds per plant UP. To add--their veg time is a minimum of 6 weeks.

[copobo]

Yeah--whatever--LOL

throatstick - what method are you using? dwc?

[cowgirl1]

sorry bro to break it to ya 4oz is piss poor.i can veg for 1 month and yeild 12+oz's dry without trying.i know guys that yeild 3 lbs per indoors alotta light tho but it is doable...

Yea I did 4.5 pounds per plant last harvest. Oh shit I forgot I weighed the stems, the dirt, the container and so on. Well it sounded good. But I did have a dream one time awhile back were I did several pounds per plant indoors.

If you or your friends are growing and getting 3 pounds per-plant indoors then please do give all of us some growing advise. Hell, I will even settle for 12 plus oz per plant.

[rightwinger]

really? lmao ok

this was just the top.i veg all clones 1 month with training and thats it.from seed i might go 5 weeks depends tho.you can think or believe what ya want.i have no reason to lie...i could grow alot bigger than that and it would still be just as potent as those guys saying things like"i don't grow for yeild i would rather grow for stronger meds" what a crock......you still think im full of shit go look up doubled's grows or heathrobinsons grows.just because you have never seen it or cause you don't see these kindda grows on canna.com don't mean it is'nt so..


Yeah--I just looked this system up--very complicated--meaning also very delicate. Have tried hydro before-very unforgiving-one little mistake and the entire crop is toast. I read most of the articles Robinson has posted and not anywhere did I find that he "says" to expect 1 lb. or more in yield per plant.

I hope he is successful at this experiment. If he is--he should patten the idea and sell it.

Again--the professional indoor growers/dispensory owners-whom have been doing it for years--that I know--are happy to get 4 oz. per plant.

[throatstick]

Yeah--I just looked this system up--very complicated--meaning also very delicate. Have tried hydro before-very unforgiving-one little mistake and the entire crop is toast. I read most of the articles Robinson has posted and not anywhere did I find that he "says" to expect 1 lb. or more in yield per plant.

I hope he is successful at this experiment. If he is--he should patten the idea and sell it.

Again--the professional indoor growers/dispensory owners-whom have been doing it for years--that I know--are happy to get 4 oz. per plant.

if ya go back and read what i posted from the start it says just that.you have to dump alot of money into it to grow BIG BUT IT CAN BE DONE.show me where i ever stated it could be done in a closet with cfl's?but there is a way thats not hard and it does'nt cost the big money where you can yeild good.to say that dispensaries are professional growers is pretty funny.most don't know shit about it and the others know alittle.very few know how to grow.also colorado is chalked full of wannabes too since it is med legal everyone has flooded in thinking it's just a weed and will grow by just throwing seeds in the wind....the rest think they are professional growers cause they have a few cfls in a closet and bought the best nutes the hydro store owner told them to buy......


btw i have yet to find a real grower that would give out good growing knowledge advice due to sarcasm....if i weighed in the stalks stems bins and so on i'd have way more than a couple lbs per light......

all in all do what makes ya happy so enjoy, peace...

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

Here in Colorado, Texas Kid, Sky High, and True Grit are all killing it. TK is getting something like a couple of pounds per plant. Sky High looks like he's going to pull about the same amount this coming harvest. And Gritty easily pulls a lb+

In case you didn't know "DoubleDs" is a username on another forum, NOT two clones per bucket - like someone earlier said. He's up in Canada and has pulled over 4lbs per plant. The system he's put together is a little complicated and definitely not for beginners. So much can go wrong and go wrong very quickly. It's similar to Current Culture's UnderCurrent Evolution XXL 13 system, the main difference being the water flow (one is being pushed, the other is pulled). DoubleD's system is supposed to be coming on the market I think in the fall. I know several people locally who have a UC system and they have had some great harvests!

[rightwinger]

Here in Colorado, Texas Kid, Sky High, and True Grit are all killing it. TK is getting something like a couple of pounds per plant. Sky High looks like he's going to pull about the same amount this coming harvest. And Gritty easily pulls a lb+

In case you didn't know "DoubleDs" is a username on another forum, NOT two clones per bucket - like someone earlier said. He's up in Canada and has pulled over 4lbs per plant. The system he's put together is a little complicated and definitely not for beginners. So much can go wrong and go wrong very quickly. It's similar to Current Culture's UnderCurrent Evolution XXL 13 system, the main difference being the water flow (one is being pushed, the other is pulled). DoubleD's system is supposed to be coming on the market I think in the fall. I know several people locally who have a UC system and they have had some great harvests!


LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

[throatstick]

LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

i can tell ya what thai just talked about is not spamming or fake.i've talked to tk b4 and seen his grows on another forum he is legit.uc and dd's system is legit too.no need to get all pissed off just because your "pro grower" told ya it's a lie.dude must not have come outta the mountains in a long time or something?

[throatstick]

throatstick - what method are you using? dwc?

i mixed 2 methods i built my own system.dwc x aero mix.2 weeks i.....well it's all bs tho so who cares right.....lol all i can say is i don't pull dd's or the likes there of's ## but my system is simple small does'nt cost alot and i do well enough for how simple it is.sure i could fork out the big bucks and go big but im not in a spot to do that just yet.

i started out with this never grew anything in my life b4 this and my first harvest was 30oz dry off 2 plants.the strain was crystal,it's not a known yeilder but it does ok. i think rightwinger may have what im saying mixed up? this is not soil i don't think i have ever seen this done in soil,i don't believe it can be done in soil on this time frame.


btw i grow bushes not trees or single topped plants.......

[throatstick]

i just reread that and it came off as if i just started growing lol.not at all i ment that when i first started growing that was what i did.i never grew veggies or had a garden.i started out with this sytem and hydro.i read up on gardening for 2 nites in a row and the diffrent types of systems.but i always like to do my own thing. so i built that system and went from there. to be honest it don't matter to me if no one believes me. i know what i have done and still do.the people i gave it all to knows the truth too,they could'nt believe it. cause i never delt with pot in anyway b4 i started growing.they thought i was full of shit too cause they knew growers and saw what the norm was.well i would'nt say "growers"i mean there was a few that grew in the past and they would have to sog a room to get any weight.

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

Hahaha! Wow really!?! I'm spamming? How so?

Just because you know people who have been doing the same thing for YEARS doesn't mean they are doing it right or that they are pushing things to the max. So much depends on strain itself. Some produce, some don't. I love Jack Herer but I can't get it to yield hardly anything but what it does is pure bliss. Now Trainwreck I can pull quite a bit, but I don't like it and I think it's a pain to grow (too much support needed). Big Bud is the same way - huge yield, but it's not for me. 4 oz/plant is pretty much average for people who just let nature take it's course. But there are people out there who push the envelope and are getting huge yields. Am I getting those yields - no but this isn't a fulltime gig for me nor I have poured a ton of money into it. Depending on what strain I'm running, I usually get a decent yield especially if it's a strain I've run before and journaled the previous grow. So often people continue to make the same mistakes over & over again because they don't take the few minutes a day to journal what they have done. I also have a few buckets that I just let nature do it's thing mostly just due to lack of time and I want to see what happens before I start to tweak anything. Personally I think that's the best thing to do when you first run a strain. Just let it grow and see what it does, that way you have a idea if any changes you make help or hurt.

And why so hostile? Why are you taking this so personal? I never said you & your friends suck at growing, just that there are individuals out there that are killin' it when it comes to huge grows! I'm in awe myself and if I hadn't seen pics and in some cases in person - I wouldn't believe it either.

Spamming - ummm pretty sure I'm not advertising fake Viagra or posting false info or posting repeatedly the same info over & over again. Maybe you're a little confused what spam is. And I'm talking about spam on an internet board, not the canned meat-like product (which I grew to love when I live in Hawaii & Guam) - just so you're clear.

Anyway, I hope you finally get some decent yields and I hope it's good medicine for you. You definitely need to relax. It's a plant that should bring you joy & pain relief. Seems to just put you in a pissy mood. I recommend maybe switching to a different strain (Jack Herer is great!) or maybe go back to taking your pysch meds. Talk to your doctor about maybe getting on Wellbutrin - I've seen it work wonders in people's personalities, maybe it'll help yours. Or if you happen to have "mood swings", ask your doc about Lamictal. While I think MMJ works great for a lot of people, and helps with a lot of conditions, it's not the end-all cure-all for everyone. Some, perhaps yourself, still need prescription meds. Good Luck! I wish you the best.

:hippy:

[puntacometa]

LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.

4 oz on an indoor grow is pretty light. I grew quite a few 1lb. + plants last winter in my greenhouse. Are you talking about a closet grow?

[Kartel]

Rightwinger:

I just finished a giesel plant, first time i grew it. Far from dialed, actually some phos deficiency most of the cycle. It was grown in 5 gallons of coco with a modified lucas formulas (called H3ad's formula.) No CO2.

yield was 5.5 oz.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Here is a pic from my second run of her, hoping for 3x that amount, she has a lot more space to spread out this time.... ;)


edit: oops, first pic is actually killer queen. But that plant is identical in size and grown next to the giesel that is pictured in the second and third pics. KQ yields a bit less than giesel but I still hope for 10-12 oz minimum. :D

[Weekend]

maybe I missed it but what you guys arent talking about .container size & watts.......if you got 1 plant under 1k in a 10gal pot, 12oz no problem...12oz is going to be on the low side...those #'s are very possible, but it also takes alot of time to train/stake the plants.....look at kartels, he takes the time to spread everything out to get the most out of his plants.

[specialdad]

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.[/QUOTE]


Me too. Less than 300 dollars and I can go on forever. Here in Rhode Island there is a real helpful group who are helping us to establish outlets. Who are those guys really? Defend your right to hold onto seeds. Corn farmers are not having much luck doing that. Pot will be big business in the US and soon.

Hey, Lets get orginaized into co-ops.

Hook up here. What do you think?

[rightwinger]

Hahaha! Wow really!?! I'm spamming? How so?

Just because you know people who have been doing the same thing for YEARS doesn't mean they are doing it right or that they are pushing things to the max. So much depends on strain itself. Some produce, some don't. I love Jack Herer but I can't get it to yield hardly anything but what it does is pure bliss. Now Trainwreck I can pull quite a bit, but I don't like it and I think it's a pain to grow (too much support needed). Big Bud is the same way - huge yield, but it's not for me. 4 oz/plant is pretty much average for people who just let nature take it's course. But there are people out there who push the envelope and are getting huge yields. Am I getting those yields - no but this isn't a fulltime gig for me nor I have poured a ton of money into it. Depending on what strain I'm running, I usually get a decent yield especially if it's a strain I've run before and journaled the previous grow. So often people continue to make the same mistakes over & over again because they don't take the few minutes a day to journal what they have done. I also have a few buckets that I just let nature do it's thing mostly just due to lack of time and I want to see what happens before I start to tweak anything. Personally I think that's the best thing to do when you first run a strain. Just let it grow and see what it does, that way you have a idea if any changes you make help or hurt.

And why so hostile? Why are you taking this so personal? I never said you & your friends suck at growing, just that there are individuals out there that are killin' it when it comes to huge grows! I'm in awe myself and if I hadn't seen pics and in some cases in person - I wouldn't believe it either.

Spamming - ummm pretty sure I'm not advertising fake Viagra or posting false info or posting repeatedly the same info over & over again. Maybe you're a little confused what spam is. And I'm talking about spam on an internet board, not the canned meat-like product (which I grew to love when I live in Hawaii & Guam) - just so you're clear.

Anyway, I hope you finally get some decent yields and I hope it's good medicine for you. You definitely need to relax. It's a plant that should bring you joy & pain relief. Seems to just put you in a pissy mood. I recommend maybe switching to a different strain (Jack Herer is great!) or maybe go back to taking your pysch meds. Talk to your doctor about maybe getting on Wellbutrin - I've seen it work wonders in people's personalities, maybe it'll help yours. Or if you happen to have "mood swings", ask your doc about Lamictal. While I think MMJ works great for a lot of people, and helps with a lot of conditions, it's not the end-all cure-all for everyone. Some, perhaps yourself, still need prescription meds. Good Luck! I wish you the best.

:hippy:

I am just stating that people who make a living off of growing and have been doing indoor grows for many-many years are always interested in yield. I am not talking about the dispensory owner that opened up last week and is a newcomer grower. The growers I have come to know--using every technique available say they're happy to get 4 oz's per plant. Depending on the strain one can get much less than that.

If there is another way to get more than 4 oz.s per indoor plant you appear to be the only one that is aware of it--and your posts indicate pounds per plant--which is incredibly hard to believe.

Again--if it's that good--patten it.

[Moedank]

LOOK--I really don't give a dam about your big fish stories. I KNOW professional growers that have been doing this for YEARS--and they tell me that a maximun of 4 ounces per plant is all anyone can expect on an indoor grow. GET OVER IT! I don't believe your B.S. and I won't until I see it for myself. I think you're spaming on this board.


WOW!...didnt know there were people out there that didnt know about lb+ plants indoors...thats been going on for over 15 years that I know of. Hell this is a Strawberry Cough i grew in a 25gallon SOIL bucket. Got 10oz of this one and didnt even train it right. Then the Sour Fuck in a bubbler. That plant is 6feet tall and still have 7 more weeks to grow...look like a 4oz plant to you?I may do this for a living but im far from a Professional Grower...

[Dorje113]

If there is another way to get more than 4 oz.s per indoor plant you appear to be the only one that is aware of it--and your posts indicate pounds per plant--which is incredibly hard to believe.

Again--if it's that good--patten it.


There are many ways, but I grow in dirt and yield 2-3 lbs per 1000W. Just had a few ISS plants yield 1 lb each.

Here's a pic of my Snowcap in a 20 gal smart pot, this will give you an idea of what's possible. Veg time is 8-10 weeks from cutting the clone, about the same as flowering time, which is very convienient. Imagine 4 of these under a 1kW light. This is how you get 2-3 lb harvests.

edit.... there's no secrets here, you just have to understand how the plant works... roots + light + co2 = buds. increase the amount of the 1st 3 to get more buds. Very simple really....

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

I am just stating that people who make a living off of growing and have been doing indoor grows for many-many years are always interested in yield... The growers I have come to know--using every technique available say they're happy to get 4 oz's per plant. Depending on the strain one can get much less than that.

If there is another way to get more than 4 oz.s per indoor plant you appear to be the only one that is aware of it--and your posts indicate pounds per plant--which is incredibly hard to believe.

Again--if it's that good--patten it.

No need to patent it as it's fairly common knowledge. Give the plant what it needs, in the right quantities and with enough time & space, it'll be a tree. With the low plant numbers we're allowed here in CO, growing trees is the best bang for your buck. Of course there are those who will argue that it's not a good return on your money due to higher electricity & nute costs, etc... And that's a good argument, I'm just biased towards colas the size of 2 liter bottles! :thumbsup: Your growing buddies' might have different priorities.

Just look at regular farming world, for instance most pumpkin farmers grow pumpkins that are probably typically between 5-50lbs each. Yet there have been plenty of examples of pumpkins weighing in over 1,000lbs. Take a look at roses, most rose blooms are probably about 4-6in in diameter and yet there are people who have roses which are over 30in in diameter (imagine giving your girlfriend a dozen of those!). Tomatoes are typically about 2-4in in diameter & weigh a couple of ounces to maybe 1/2lb each and yet again there are those who have grown a 5lb+ tomato. Ok enough examples.

So long story short, there are lots of people who already know how to get yields greater than 4oz. True there are probably more people who are happy just to get 4oz. But to attack me and to pretty much say I'm lying- well that's just not nice. I think the pics some of the folks here have kindly provided show that it ain't hard to get over 4oz.

Attached are pics (blurred out what site it's from - don't want to piss off mods) of "DoubleDs" 10 plant grow. Pics were taken during week 6. The 10 plants yielded just short of 42lbs ... freakin' incredible!

Ok I'm done arguing about this. It's obvious your growing friends either aren't telling you the truth about actually really attempting other methods wholeheartedly or they just have strains that don't produce yield or they are trying to save money/time somehow and skimping somewhere along the line. Might be time to ask them why they can only get 4oz. If that's the best they can do no matter what strain they run, somethings wrong. Even when I ran Big Bud, and wasn't even trying to get a huge yield, I still got something like 6-9oz per plant.

Don't remember if you're a new grower or not, if so might want to either get different mentors or pick-up a good grow book. Of course there's tons of internet info out there but so much of it conflicts, it can get overwhelming, needless to say confusing. Personally I would recommend starting out with either soil or soil-less buckets. When I teach someone, I like to teach soil-less because newbies can get very excited about growing & end up overcompensating somehow. Those kind of problems are really easy to cure with soil-less (at least I think so). Hydro is cool but is more expensive to get started. Aero is awesome but so much can easily go wrong and when they do the plants suffer very quickly - and the costs are usually even higher than hydro.

Good Luck!
:rastasmoke:

[Dorje113]

Attached are pics (blurred out what site it's from - don't want to piss off mods) of "DoubleDs" 10 plant grow. Pics were taken during week 6. The 10 plants yielded just short of 42lbs ... freakin' incredible!

Good Luck!
:rastasmoke:

Holy $hit, I thought my plants were pretty big for indoor. Very impressive.

Dirt? DWC? How many 1kW lights?

[throatstick]

Holy $hit, I thought my plants were pretty big for indoor. Very impressive.

Dirt? DWC? How many 1kW lights?

thats the guy i was talking about from the start. but people seem not to want to listen or believe me.thats not thai's grow thats doubles grow.to start it's about 14 1k lights hangin vert with no hood.then the system is rdwc something i have done from the start. b4 i knew about doubleds but not on the scale he is running it on.you won't get that growth in soil in the time frame we work with.double only does 3 weeks veg.it's all about pumping the root zone with tons of oxygen at all times.so not only do you have the air stones in the rez but also in each plant bin then on top of that you recirculate the water through all the bins back to main rez.


but don't take my word for it wait till someone else says it then believe them.....

[throatstick]

No need to patent it as it's fairly common knowledge. Give the plant what it needs, in the right quantities and with enough time & space, it'll be a tree. With the low plant numbers we're allowed here in CO, growing trees is the best bang for your buck. Of course there are those who will argue that it's not a good return on your money due to higher electricity & nute costs, etc... And that's a good argument, I'm just biased towards colas the size of 2 liter bottles! :thumbsup: Your growing buddies' might have different priorities.

Just look at regular farming world, for instance most pumpkin farmers grow pumpkins that are probably typically between 5-50lbs each. Yet there have been plenty of examples of pumpkins weighing in over 1,000lbs. Take a look at roses, most rose blooms are probably about 4-6in in diameter and yet there are people who have roses which are over 30in in diameter (imagine giving your girlfriend a dozen of those!). Tomatoes are typically about 2-4in in diameter & weigh a couple of ounces to maybe 1/2lb each and yet again there are those who have grown a 5lb+ tomato. Ok enough examples.

So long story short, there are lots of people who already know how to get yields greater than 4oz. True there are probably more people who are happy just to get 4oz. But to attack me and to pretty much say I'm lying- well that's just not nice. I think the pics some of the folks here have kindly provided show that it ain't hard to get over 4oz.

Attached are pics (blurred out what site it's from - don't want to piss off mods) of "DoubleDs" 10 plant grow. Pics were taken during week 6. The 10 plants yielded just short of 42lbs ... freakin' incredible!

Ok I'm done arguing about this. It's obvious your growing friends either aren't telling you the truth about actually really attempting other methods wholeheartedly or they just have strains that don't produce yield or they are trying to save money/time somehow and skimping somewhere along the line. Might be time to ask them why they can only get 4oz. If that's the best they can do no matter what strain they run, somethings wrong. Even when I ran Big Bud, and wasn't even trying to get a huge yield, I still got something like 6-9oz per plant.

Don't remember if you're a new grower or not, if so might want to either get different mentors or pick-up a good grow book. Of course there's tons of internet info out there but so much of it conflicts, it can get overwhelming, needless to say confusing. Personally I would recommend starting out with either soil or soil-less buckets. When I teach someone, I like to teach soil-less because newbies can get very excited about growing & end up overcompensating somehow. Those kind of problems are really easy to cure with soil-less (at least I think so). Hydro is cool but is more expensive to get started. Aero is awesome but so much can easily go wrong and when they do the plants suffer very quickly - and the costs are usually even higher than hydro.

Good Luck!
:rastasmoke:


Aero is awesome but so much can easily go wrong and when they do the plants suffer very quickly - and the costs are usually even higher than hydro.


not when u mix it with dwc like i do.it's a win win cause basicly you have 2 systems running at the same time so it's like a fail safe. cause if the aero goes down you still have the airstones going and if the air pump stops you have the aero still running.it's great for those times when you would have lost a crop due to a pump clogging or going bad...

not to mention the added oxygen and growth you get from it..

[Dorje113]

but don't take my word for it wait till someone else says it then believe them.....

I believe it, thats 3 lbs per 1kW which I have also done more than once. The veg time is really short, but I think I could come close in soil with some strains like ISS, Agent Orange, and other super fast growing sativa hybrids. The AO I mentioned gets about 10x bigger when we hit 12/12, I can't believe how much they had to be trimmed down after flowering. Growing 1 plant per light would be easy with a strain like that... I agree that DWC maximizes nute uptake in the roots, but large volumes of dirt can accomplish similar yields and is cheap and easy, just needs more veg time.

[throatstick]

I believe it, thats 3 lbs per 1kW which I have also done more than once. The veg time is really short, but I think I could come close in soil with some strains like ISS, Agent Orange, and other super fast growing sativa hybrids. The AO I mentioned gets about 10x bigger when we hit 12/12, I can't believe how much they had to be trimmed down after flowering. Growing 1 plant per light would be easy with a strain like that... I agree that DWC maximizes nute uptake in the roots, but large volumes of dirt can accomplish similar yields and is cheap and easy, just needs more veg time.

i agree,and yes ao is a great strain i have 2 pks along with many other subcool strains.he gifted me the pks of ao and spacequeen acouple years ago.

btw the strain doubles was working with there i believe was a g13 cross.

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

not when u mix it with dwc like i do.it's a win win cause basicly you have 2 systems running at the same time so it's like a fail safe. cause if the aero goes down you still have the airstones going and if the air pump stops you have the aero still running.it's great for those times when you would have lost a crop due to a pump clogging or going bad...

not to mention the added oxygen and growth you get from it..

You're absolutely right. I have a hybrid aero/rdwc system set-up at one of my patient's places for his plants. The guy used to be a mechanical engineer before he came down with cancer. We have been getting nice yields but still need to dial-in: lighting, CO2, temp and get a rez chiller. A couple more runs, and he should be ready to take things over on his own, hopefully his health will hold up. But you have to admit for someone just starting out, trying to figure things out on their own - aero isn't the easiest way to begin. It's expensive & unless you have experience - difficult to set-up. The only reason we went with the system we put together was because he had already started trying to put together a dwc system so he already had a lot of equipment. He's actually happy with the yield but it's become a goal now to try and see just how hard we can push the line. I missed picking up some of DoubleD's seeds but hopefully will get some by end of summer.

[throatstick]

You're absolutely right. I have a hybrid aero/rdwc system set-up at one of my patient's places for his plants. The guy used to be a mechanical engineer before he came down with cancer. We have been getting nice yields but still need to dial-in: lighting, CO2, temp and get a rez chiller. A couple more runs, and he should be ready to take things over on his own, hopefully his health will hold up. But you have to admit for someone just starting out, trying to figure things out on their own - aero isn't the easiest way to begin. It's expensive & unless you have experience - difficult to set-up. The only reason we went with the system we put together was because he had already started trying to put together a dwc system so he already had a lot of equipment. He's actually happy with the yield but it's become a goal now to try and see just how hard we can push the line. I missed picking up some of DoubleD's seeds but hopefully will get some by end of summer.

well you might not believe it but i had never grown anything at all ever.then i was hurt and wanted a natrual way to deal with pain so i read up for 2 nites and built my first system.dwc/aero i built a manifold to fit down in each rez hooked to the water pump then 2 air stones per rez.first grow was crystal 2 plants yeilded 30 oz's dry.the way i started out growing was fimming and bending over my tops.but thats how i am i learn very very fast the basics then i add onto it to improve what im doing.im not the type of person to sit and wait and go along with what someone else is doing.not that that is wrong just diffrent people work things out diffrent ways.some are slow starters some are not.

that was without co2 btw.never done co2 but want to when i can someday.

[ThaiBuddhaMan]

...first grow was crystal 2 plants yeilded 30 oz's dry....

That's a great first run! Congrats! And good job doing your homework first! Too many jump in thinking - It's a weed, how hard can it be? Well it's not really hard but if you want some decent yield, it does take a bit of planning & work.

[throatstick]

That's a great first run! Congrats! And good job doing your homework first! Too many jump in thinking - It's a weed, how hard can it be? Well it's not really hard but if you want some decent yield, it does take a bit of planning & work.

that was 4 years ago tho lol i have moved up from there....atleast i think so lol seems like i left my home where i was doing great only to come to a legal state to get caught up in red tape trying to be"legal" and run above board....

[Dorje113]

that was without co2 btw.never done co2 but want to when i can someday.

I'm trying out a Plug n Grow IGS-220 Co2/Temp/RH controller with good success right now. I doubt I'd do Co2 without a controller after trying one, if the IGS-220 or similar units are too expensive I've seen Co2 controllers on ebay for under $300, same as the CAP ppm3 that retails for $589 it looks like. You could also rig a relay to turn off the co2 when the exhaust fan comes on to save co2. The 3 lbs/light I've gotten was with natural gas co2 generators, but also with constant venting so co2 levels never got close to ideal...

[throatstick]

I'm trying out a Plug n Grow IGS-220 Co2/Temp/RH controller with good success right now. I doubt I'd do Co2 without a controller after trying one, if the IGS-220 or similar units are too expensive I've seen Co2 controllers on ebay for under $300, same as the CAP ppm3 that retails for $589 it looks like. You could also rig a relay to turn off the co2 when the exhaust fan comes on to save co2. The 3 lbs/light I've gotten was with natural gas co2 generators, but also with constant venting so co2 levels never got close to ideal...

yea thats the problem,i have a tank and a cap reg but no controller.i hooked it up and after a day i said f this i'll wait till i can set it up right.so atleast i have the basics.that was 2 months ago so im hoping to use it soon...