Dilution Not Working For Me (Yet)

[nomore420]

First, I am 39 years old, 5'9" and approximately 225 lbs with a slow metabolism. I last smoked just over 2 weeks ago, but it was VERY good quality hashish, and the week before that some excellent Hydroponic weed. I would say that before that I was a regular user for several months.

Two days ago, a great company offered me a very prestigious and well-paying job, and to my surprise, the entire interview / offer process was VERY quick (we're talking from start to end in just over a week). If I am lucky, I might be able to stall for another week. I am hoping to use this week to prepare myself and hopefully get the dilution method working.

To help with my preparation, yesterday I purchased two (2) THC home-tests from CSV, as well as about 1-dozen each of the Home-Test Strips and 'Adulteration' test strips from a good online source (paid a little higher price for what I hope is better quality). I am expecting the bulk test strips I ordered online to arrive either tomorrow (i hope) or Saturday (worst-case).

---- WHAT I HAVE TRIED SO FAR

Yesterday, I tested my first void using a home THC test from CSV--FAILED! ...i was not surprised, but I wanted to get a 'worst-case' base-line just to see what would happen without any preparation. Nevertheless, I had half-hoped that I might, by some miracle, actually pass without any dilution...no such luck! :(

---- SO, TODAY
I followed the N2 Dilution method to the letter, but when I tested myself with my second CSV home-test, with COMPLETELY CLEAR urine, I still did not see that T-Line (Failed Again). :mad:

---- NOW I'M STARTING TO PANIC :eek:
Now, at this point I haven't even concerned myself with creatinine clearance, PH, specific gravity or color (although I did take vitamins because I am trying to figure out how long it takes for my urine color to change). So, what I am trying to do at this point is just prove that dilution works for me using the N2 quantities of water (if it doesn't work with water, other liquids will NOT make a difference)--any other liquid such as Gatoraide/Poweraide, Cranberry Juice, Pepsi, Green Tea or Coffee only matters because it helps as a diuretic, or to increase specific density by providing electrolytes, etc, but in the end it's WATER that dilutes the Urine, not some 'exotic' ingredient included in any other liquid solution.

--------MY NEW PLAN :thumbsup:
I am starting to consider substitution method. My biggest fear is that someone will observe me trying to make the switch, and my second largest fear (naturally) is that I will screw up the temperature because it's so sensitive and the range is relatively tight...Fortunately, I do have some time to practice. My thought is to keep working on the Dilution, because no matter what, I want to be as dilute as possible, just in case something goes wrong (fluid container ruptures, heat pad doesn't work right, staff watching like a hawk, etc). In the 'worst-case' I would probably end up with a negative-dilute, but that's better than failing, and in the best-case scenario, I successfully substitute. Fortunately, I can use my father's Urine, which makes this VERY convenient. Nevertheless, I am still a bit 'paranoid' about substitution, but if I cannot get dilution to work (and then adulteration on top of that), then I have to be prepared to substitute as best I can.

-----------------------
Sorry for the long-winded post, but I wanted to show where I am at, what I have studied/learned about the process, and what I am doing. I am hoping that someone can help provide me some advice with what might be going on with my dilution failures and offer me some suggestions. I am going to keep trying by increasing fluid levels and frequencies and within the next couple of days focusing on the adulteration strips as well, but in the meantime, I just wanted to seek out some GOOD advice from the regulars on here.

PLEASE, DO NOT RESPOND with B.S. concerning Jello, Niacin, Soaking my Penis in Bleach, Drinking 2 Gallons of Vinegar or any of that crap. I completely understand how Dilution works and am only interested in perfecting dilution and/or substitution. But I would REALLY love to get my dilution working as no matter what, if I can get that working, I would be able to pass....

...P.S. I love smoking marijuana, but I can assure you that if I get through this process, I will never smoke marijuana again as I know for certain that it affects my judgment in a way that makes it difficult to provide security for my wife and children. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying that it's not responsible given the socio-economic implications of MJ use....I'll miss you MJ :) but I'd miss my wife and Children more!

[Goober328]

Great post No. Hope you get it figured out. Heard on one place a condom full of untainted wee wee carried under the nads was a good plan. Think more of us should consider the implications of our use on others. I've considered it on a bunch of occasions but just keep on toking. As much as we might like to deny the fact it is an addiction.

Goober

[nomore420]

Great post No. Hope you get it figured out. Heard on one place a condom full of untainted wee wee carried under the nads was a good plan.

I consider myself to have above-average intelligence, so if there's a way for me to pull this off, I'm sure I'll figure it out :) I plan to go dressed in my Suit and Tie to minimize suspicion and I am not the type that exhibits my paranoia externally, so I'm confident that even if I am a bit nervous, it won't show in my behavior when I go for testing. This should help, from what I've researched. Thanks for the vote of support!



Think more of us should consider the implications of our use on others. I've considered it on a bunch of occasions but just keep on toking.

I have been kicking myself in the butt for the past two weeks because I could have quit MUCH, MUCH earlier. I knew I was starting my job search, but honestly, I DID NOT expect to get an offer so quickly. It's been MANY years since I have had to interview for any positions and I apparently my resume and interviewing skills were MUCH stronger than I had anticipated. I actually thought this first job interview would be nothing but a 'cold run'. Now if I could have as much skill/luck with my UA as I have had with my interview process, I'm in like Flynn! I consider this my mid-life crisis (39 years old) and am using this as an opportunity to reassess my values and priorities.


As much as we might like to deny the fact it is an addiction.

I can honestly say that I am not physically addicted to Marijuana. At various times in my life I have had to quit for one reason or another and have had NO PROBLEM whatsoever quitting at will. For example, I haven't even had ANY desire for MJ since I quit two weeks ago, and i'm confident that in a few months or years if I start to desire it again, it won't be because of addiction, but simply a yearning to return to those care-free days of my yester-years, when I could do anything I wanted with little fear of the consequences. However, as we age and take on more responsibilities, we bind ourselves by chains to the society that gives rise to the circumstance--if that makes ANY sense at all, LOL :D

[Burnt Toast]

I last smoked just over 2 weeks ago, but it was VERY good quality hashish, and the week before that some excellent Hydroponic weed. I would say that before that I was a regular user for several months.
It must be understood that dilution techniques (in any configuration) can backfire if the THCA concentration in the bladder is too high. For most longtime daily users, its virtually impossible to dilute that high concentration without overdiluting, which would send up the red flags at the lab.

[nomore420]

its virtually impossible to dilute that high concentration without overdiluting, which would send up the red flags at the lab.

In other words, I'm TOAST!!! Well, good thing I'm working on Plan B and practicing for Substitution.

Burnt--you've contributed a significant amount of content to this community, so I trust your expertise and experience. Would you please address my main concerns:

1) how hard is it really to maintain the temperature? I fear that hand-warmers may make the specimen too hot, but only relying on body-temperature will end up being too cool...

2) any solid guidance regarding substituting QuickFix 7.5 vs using a human specimen provided by someone else, my father perhaps?

3) i have researched the some states actually make it a crime to attempt to substitute for any drug test (even pre-employment)...what are the risks that I could end up with a criminal record if I am caught? Also, this question in regard to item 2 above, would the 'donor' potentially be criminally charged? Have you heard of this happening or am I just freaking out over nothing?

4) regardless of quickfix or human specimen sub, is the condom the better method than the bottle (that quickfix bottle looks like it might make a lot of 'slurping' noises unless the entire top is removed).

5) Am I more likely to have fewer troubles if I wear a suit and tie and dress my very best? I don't want to set off any red flags, would rather that they feel uncomfortable 'observing' me...

Thanks for any/all suggestions Burnt :hippy: ....i am fairly confident that this can work...it just HAS to work! My life and family are on the line at this point.

[Goober328]

Well I have never heard of anybody getting busted for swapping pee around. Now one Olympic Athelete actually squirted fresh donated urine up into his own bladder one time. They just took away his medals seems like. Not sure how they figured out he done that. Must have been a snitch on that deal. I think your getting a little anal over the testers watching your actions etc. Most of them just send you in the bathroom hand you a tube and say fill er up close the door and go away for a while. Now I heard sometimes they do listen at the door but they never acted like that with me. Which I usually took one at the Doctors Office.

Goober

[nomore420]

Actually, this can be VERY serious...take a look at this NJ legislation, which I just uncovered tonight in my research:


http://trendsinamerica.com/knowledgecenter/docs/ssl/DrugTest.pdf

§1 - C.2C:36-10
P.L. 2002, CHAPTER 60, approved August 3, 2002
Assembly Committee Substitute for
Assembly, No. 2098
1 AN ACT concerning defrauding the administration of a drug test and
2 supplementing chapter 36 of Title 2C of the New Jersey Statutes.
3
4 BE IT ENACTED by the Senate and General Assembly of the State
5 of New Jersey:
6
7 1. a. As used in this act, â??defraud the administration of a drug
8 testâ?� means to submit a substance that purports to be from a person
9 other than its actual source, or purports to have been excreted or
10 collected at a time other than when it was actually excreted or
11 collected, or to otherwise engage in conduct intended to produce a
12 false or misleading outcome of a test for the presence of a chemical,
13 drug or controlled dangerous substance, or a metabolite of a drug or
14 controlled dangerous substance, in the human body. It shall
15 specifically include, but shall not be limited to, the furnishing of urine
16 with the purpose that the urine be submitted for urinalysis as a true
17 specimen of a person.
18 b. Any person who offers for sale or rental, or who manufactures,
19 sells, transfers, or gives to any person, any instrument, tool, device or
20 substance adapted, designed or commonly used to defraud the
21 administration of a drug test, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.
22 c. Any person who knowingly defrauds the administration of a
23 drug test that is administered as a condition of employment or
24 continued employment as a law enforcement officer, corrections
25 officer, school bus driver, operator of a motorbus, employee of a rail
26 passenger service, firefighter, provider of emergency first-aid or
27 medical services, or any other occupation that requires the
28 administration of a drug test as a condition of employment or
29 continued employment by law, rule or regulation of the State or a local
30 agency, public authority, or the federal government, is guilty of a
31 crime of the third degree.
32 d. Any person who knowingly defrauds the administration of a
33 drug test that is administered as a condition of monitoring a person on
34 bail, in custody or on parole, probation or pretrial intervention, or any
35 other form of supervision administered in connection with a criminal
36 offense or juvenile delinquency matter, is guilty of a crime of the third
37 degree.
38 e. Any person who knowingly possesses any instrument, product,
39 tool, device or substance adapted, designed or commonly used to
40 defraud the administration of a drug test is guilty of a crime of the
41 fourth degree.
42 f. Any person who knowingly defrauds the administration of a
43 drug test which is administered as a condition of any employment or
44 continued employment not specified in subsection c. of this section is
ACS for A2098
2
1 guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.
2
3 2. This act shall take effect immediately.
4
5
6
7
8 Criminalizes defrauding administration of a drug test.


Then, take a look at what Branall1 wrote regarding this topic back in May of 2006 (in this same forum but on another thread)


http://boards.cannabis.com/drug-testing/64429-truth-behind-drug-testing.html#post763476
Cannabis Forums Message Boards - Medical Marijuana, Cannabis Club, Dispensary, News (http://boards.cannabis.com/members/branall1.html)
I was not a collector. I was a salesman (yes, I sold my soul, but it was either that or no food on the table, and I have a kiddo to take care of). Unfortuantely, almost every place that does drug collection is monitored and controlled by the DOT. They have tons of regulations to follow (US government? Regulations? Imagine that). If someone was caught switching piss, not only would there be firing, but charges.

Brandon




So, consider the circumstances of a pre-employment check, and if one were to get caught trying to substitute, then the potential pentalties for a fourth degree crime in NJ are as follows:


New Jersey Criminal Codes. NJ Criminal Penalties - Samuel Sachs, Esq. (http://www.samsachs.com/criminal_penalties.shtml)
(4) In the case of a crime of the fourth degree, for a specific term which shall be fixed by the court and shall not exceed 18 months.



It's just that there are so many discussions about how to pass a test, but almost NO discussion about what might go wrong and the possible consequences....

I am not going to draw this out much, but the fact is that there is so much disinformation out there on the Internet, and it's not really clear sometimes what information is real and what is not. For example, just because we don't read any stories of this happening, does not mean it doesn't happen all the time. It's quite misleading (possibly) that all the 'success' stories we read about on these threads are only a small percentage compared to the number of people that actually fail or are caught/criminalized by trying to substitute...hell, even water loading (dilution) is technically a crime, but MUCH, MUCH harder to prove as there is actually no physical evidence other than watered down urine. But it's much harder to prove criminal intent/behavior with a dilute specimen than it is to prove when you have a vial of synthetic urin you're trying to pass off as your own...

I know, I must seem VERY paranoid, but the fact is that if someone does get caught trying to substitute, and if they were arrested/prosecuted, then where is their life headed?

Just something to consider, and I haven't seen ANYTHING written on this topic in-depth...yet I think it's worth discussing, at least in states where such activity is now a crime, such as NJ, Pensylvania, New Hampshire and a few other states....just my two cents...thoughts?

[Xtricky06]

Ok I pass a lot of UA. Just the one I am worried about is a injury related UA I took.....honestly just cause u didn't get the T means it needs to be sent to a lab the home tests suck man trust me all u can really do is use quickfix or a sub of a human. But what I find what works is ready clean an a lot of water an taking niacin seriously for hire UA they really don't go hardcore on it man its not like u got injured or its a gov type job....my wt is 195 an ht is 5'11 so I didn't smoke for a week an a half an passed by taking like 6niacins a day which are 250mgs an water an salads an light meals an the day of test DIDN'T eat drank the ready clean an a lot of water an passed that was my first UA an I always did about the same thing during job hunts an trust me I smoke hydro all day everyday an greasy food so yeah man...I am worried cause my UA had to be done in 48hrs read my post man I think ur just to worried about its been about 26hrs an yet my GM hasn't fired me lol so more an likely ima request a sticky on my post if I don't get fired on saturday since I am off the next two days.....well I hope this works for ya

[stankystank19]

drink a lot of water to where you start piss clear cause thats water A LOT of water i have done this for drug test in the past where i had a couple of days but use your home kit i dont wanna fuck you over it slow metabilism or not drink a lot piss a lot to piss the bad out the darker you piss the more weed is in your system, i have gone to labs to take test and passed with diluted piss try it a lot of water non stop

[Deige]

drink a lot of water to where you start piss clear cause thats water A LOT of water i have done this for drug test in the past where i had a couple of days but use your home kit i dont wanna fuck you over it slow metabilism or not drink a lot piss a lot to piss the bad out the darker you piss the more weed is in your system, i have gone to labs to take test and passed with diluted piss try it a lot of water non stop

If you want to pass.. Disregard this entire post and read N2's Dilution Sticky.

[nomore420]

Deige, I have been trying N2's dilution method, but I haven't been able to even void clean yet, even with HEAVY dilution...I'm not even concerned at this point with specific gravity, ph, color, creatinine clearance or anything---would just be nice to be able to dilute enough to test negative...But it doesn't matter how much water I drink, I'm still voiding positive results...I will still keep working on the process, hoping that maybe in a few days I'll start to void negative...but in the meantime, i need to consider substitution....

My main fear with substitution though is that I will get caught and someone will call the police...that's the LAST thing I need. I'd rather lose the job than get a criminal record, especially for my line of work. One of my concerns is that we read many 'successes' with substitution, but i'm sure it's much more relaxed testing in Hawaii or California, for example, as opposed to PA or NJ...any thoughts? Ever hear of anyone arrested for getting caught? Would anyone even post such a thing?

[webdox]

My main fear with substitution though is that I will get caught and someone will call the police...that's the LAST thing I need.

Not going to happen.


One of my concerns is that we read many 'successes' with substitution, but i'm sure it's much more relaxed testing in Hawaii or California, for example, as opposed to PA or NJ...any thoughts?

Why would assume that testing would be more relaxed in Hawaii or California. You are being paranoid. Do some reading and you'll see that subbing a quality synthetic works 100% of the time. A test is a test, it doesn't matter if you are hiring into a hospital in PA as an MD or hiring into a Blockbuster in Hawaii as a stockboy, you will be tested the same and held against the same set of standards. Period.

[Xtricky06]

Drink a detox I am telling ya man an you will piss clear

[webdox]

Drink a detox I am telling ya man an you will piss clear

Ignore this.

[Markass]

I drank until I pissed clear and about every 15-20 minutes...then I went to take mine, worked everytime..but I'm also about 165 pounds at 5'10..

[Deige]

If its for pre-employment then you have nothing to worry about. Legally they cannot observe you take the test. You will probably be escorted to a bathroom and after you enter just lock the door. They cannot and will not video tape you or enter the room at anytime. They may stand by the door and listen for any sounds out of the ordinary. This being said... Make sure you have to urinate when you enter the room. Unzip and start to void as you open your synthetic urine and pour it into the cup. I know it sounds nerve racking.... Its not really that bad. Just remember that the door is locked and your totally secure. If you practice with Quick Fix(it can be reheated as many times as possible) you'll sail right through it and be out in 2 minutes. Keeping the proper temperature is also very easy, Quick Fix comes with its own thermometer strip right on the side. The hand warmers are more than enough along with crouching to keep the sample around 97-98 degrees. They will accept the sample between 90-100 degrees but to avoid suspicion I recommend 96-98. If your sample seems too low after you put it in the cup(it also has a temp strip) vigorously rub your finger on your pants and hold it too the cup until you reach the desired temp.

Just remember practice makes perfect. :thumbsup:

[Burnt Toast]

Drink a detox I am telling ya man an you will piss clearDetox drinks are an overpriced Dilution method in-a-bottle. Their makers and peddlers exist only to seperate the credulous from their cash.
With that being said, why feed these scam artists by spending huge sums of money on a bottled diluter when you can accomplish the same thing for $$$ less by following the guidelines outlined in this thread:
http://boards.cannabis.com/drug-testing/1147-dilution-tips-tricks-guidelines.html

[stillsmokincbot]

because cannabis is fat solable an not water solable these products on the market cannot clear your system because the cannaboids are left in your fat cells and at 225lbs it might take a bit longer to get out of your system.i dont think you can get all cannaboids out of your system in such a short time.you could try drinking a liter of water every hour for 4 to 6 hours before your drugs test and take 3 times the r.d.a of vitamin b12 to make your urine yellow.make sure you do as little exercise or anything that can make you sweat for at least 24 hours before the test as this will cause the cannaboids to leave your fat cells and pass into your urine,sweat ect...
best of luck hope something works for you:toilet_claw:

[Burnt Toast]

take 3 times the r.d.a of vitamin b12 to make your urine yellow. Actually vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) is the proper vitamin used to "color" urine. Not B12.

See this thread: http://boards.cannabis.com/drug-testing/179461-have-ui.html

[nomore420]

Just wanted to give an update just in case the information would help anyone. I took my UA pre-employment screening test and passed using N2's dilution method, using Gatoraide instead of water (to help with specific gravity). I had purchased about 50 Home Test and Adulteration strips and tested myself several times per day until I had it just perfect. Fortunately for me, I had a couple extra weeks to prepare. By the time the test came, I was able to get a VERY faint line with my first morning's void, but I wasn't taking any chances. Because I had been practicing EVERY SINGLE day for almost 3 weeks, I was able to get my urine to the EXACT color needed (didn't look neon, didn't look dilute), was able to keep my creatinin clearance exactly where it needed to be and also able to get a good specific gravity using the aldulteration tests...

then, after all that work, I show up to take the test and they basically INVITED me to substitute...instructing me to close the door, didn't even make me sign any paperwork declaring the sample as my own, etc., etc., they didn't even bother to check the temperature...I was wishing I had just subbed because I was a nervous wreck for the next few days waiting for results to come back...

BUT I PASSED and got the DREAM JOB I SO DESPARATELY needed!!!

Summary:

* 5'9" / 225 lbs / Slow Metabolism
* 1 week after stopping could not even dilute to test negative
* 2 weeks, was able to dilute and test negative
* 3 weeks, was able to test negative without dilution (light line)
* it's now been 4 weeks and I have a SOLID line
* Heavy smoker for the past year before I quit (Good Weed Too)

Anyway, thanks for the dilution sticky and if I ever have to do this again, I will be prepared to SUB...though this will never be a problem again as I am now a non-smoker...i just never want this stress again...like i said before, I'll miss you MJ, but I'd miss my wife and children more...and my cushy job :D

[Deige]

Just wanted to give an update just in case the information would help anyone. I took my UA pre-employment screening test and passed using N2's dilution method, using Gatoraide instead of water (to help with specific gravity). I had purchased about 50 Home Test and Adulteration strips and tested myself several times per day until I had it just perfect. Fortunately for me, I had a couple extra weeks to prepare. By the time the test came, I was able to get a VERY faint line with my first morning's void, but I wasn't taking any chances. Because I had been practicing EVERY SINGLE day for almost 3 weeks, I was able to get my urine to the EXACT color needed (didn't look neon, didn't look dilute), was able to keep my creatinin clearance exactly where it needed to be and also able to get a good specific gravity using the aldulteration tests...

then, after all that work, I show up to take the test and they basically INVITED me to substitute...instructing me to close the door, didn't even make me sign any paperwork declaring the sample as my own, etc., etc., they didn't even bother to check the temperature...I was wishing I had just subbed because I was a nervous wreck for the next few days waiting for results to come back...

BUT I PASSED and got the DREAM JOB I SO DESPARATELY needed!!!

Summary:

* 5'9" / 225 lbs / Slow Metabolism
* 1 week after stopping could not even dilute to test negative
* 2 weeks, was able to dilute and test negative
* 3 weeks, was able to test negative without dilution (light line)
* it's now been 4 weeks and I have a SOLID line
* Heavy smoker for the past year before I quit (Good Weed Too)

Anyway, thanks for the dilution sticky and if I ever have to do this again, I will be prepared to SUB...though this will never be a problem again as I am now a non-smoker...i just never want this stress again...like i said before, I'll miss you MJ, but I'd miss my wife and children more...and my cushy job :D

Glad to hear it, chalk another one up for the good guys. Good luck on the new job.:thumbsup:

[itsonnowgirl]

Best of luck in all you do.