Grow #2

[chefbeanstock]

Its been a few years, but the information and help that I got from this site the first time around was so good, I can't imagine not doing the log for this grow. I want to thank everyone in advance for the help you all provide. Thank you, dearly. I hope to hear any concerns or thoughts from anyone, as this log is really to make sure I don't fuck anything up.

[chefbeanstock]

Anyway, I've upgraded... My first grow was in a bathtub, a 400w HPS, and I had no idea what I was doing. I've since moved to a house with plenty of space. I have 2 1000w HPS lights now and a 7' x 5' pantry that was begging me to grow something in it.

So here's my new setup:

General Hydroponics 2x4 Flood n Drain Tray
40 Gallon Reservoir
Recirculating pump in Reservoir
Flexible Air Stone in Reservoir

2- 1000w HPS

Top Drip System
Rapid Rooters
Hydroton Rocks
5"x5" plastic pots

AN 3 Part Grow Micro Bloom 1:1:1
Currently running 1:1:1 (125 ppm)

Hygrozyme
Floralicious Plus
RO Water - Raw -PH 7.2 - 7.6
PPM 17
Ph Adjusted to 5.3

[mainegrown]

welcome...
i wanna see what you can do in 2X4 area with 2000 watts....
have fun man
-J

[chefbeanstock]

I'm starting with seeds again this time. Last time (which was also my first time) I had 100% germination and 100% female. Crazy!!! I'm not expecting that this time, but I certainly hope for the best.

I got 2 feminized AK48 seeds and a Jack Herrer seed from a friend that just went to Amsterdam. Plus 8 seeds that fell out of really great bags over the last 2 years.


P.S.

I could have put this all in one post, but I know there's a certain number I have to reach before I can post a picture, I'm just trying to get the numbers up. I hope this doesn't bother...

[chefbeanstock]

11 seeds started, 10 germinated. All but one cracked within 24 hours, the last one was 4 or 5 days behind. I started them in the rapid rooters, set into a bubble cloner with the flexible air stone, and the heating mat. No dome, no nutes, sealed reservoir stayed at about 80 degrees.

[mainegrown]

not a bit.. others may not like but i did the same thing and better your log/other b.s threads then MY log.. lol
and its nice to see people that are up this early/late.. i get kinda bored around 5 every day and the lights are off now so i cant play with the girls..
so ask any questions you want and ill try to help (and use as many posts as you want in my opinion)
hope to see pics later, i think around post 50 but others get em up faster

[chefbeanstock]

welcome...
i wanna see what you can do in 2X4 area with 2000 watts....
have fun man
-J
Thanks Mainegrown!!

I'm really planning on expanding the 2x4 to more like a 6x4 once I get to a point where I can clone these plants. The last tme I finished a plant that had grown from seed, all I could think about was how many clones I could have taken from those plants, it makes me kind of depressed.

But not this time!!! With the good genetics, the space, and the lights... I'm focusing on maximum yield for the next 6 months...

Like my last grow, ( http://boards.cannabis.com/hydroponics/130276-1st-timer-w-hydroton-could-use-little-help.html?highlight=hydroton ), I'm probably going to ask lots of questions.

[chefbeanstock]

Once the roots started popping out of the sides of the RR, I put them in the hydroton and into the system. Hydroton was soaked for 2 days in ph adjusted water. I changed the water a few times, kept adjusting it (down) every few hours or so.

[mainegrown]

ok what was the end PH?
and why did you not get a ~400w MH while you were shopping for the big K bulb getup?
you would have much better luck growing a mother/clones under the 6500k MH then the ~3000k HPS...
just a thought
-J

[chefbeanstock]

Oh, I also started with CFLs, until they went into the Hydroton, the under the HPS. It was 4ft+ up, and pushed to the very edge of the footprint for 5 days, then I started moving them closer, 4-6" every couple days. Moved them directly under the light 3 days ago, lowered the light to 36" this morning.

[chefbeanstock]

ok what was the end PH?
and why did you not get a ~400w MH while you were shopping for the big K bulb getup?
you would have much better luck growing a mother/clones under the 6500k MH then the ~3000k HPS...
just a thought
-J
Yeah... I know... and I have no excuses..... Wait, I actually do this time!!!! I was supposed to start with 30 clones from CA, but those didn't come through, so I made the call for the seeds after purchasing the equipment, setting it up, checking my temps, air flow, light leaks, etc.

Since I have an extra ballast/reflector/HPS bulb, I was thinking about getting an MH bulb (still 1000w). I know it will do them justice in the veg cycle.

As far as the ph... I try to keep it around 5.3, but it creeps up slowly throught the day. It usuall climbs 0.1 every hour or so but I stay on top of it, never gets above 5.8.

[chefbeanstock]

I'm guessing my best bet would to clone the shit out of the 2 AK48 plants that I have. Do a SOG with them. I can get 32 plants in a 2x4 space. A couple more trays and i could get 90+ in a 6x4 area. Any other suggestions, let me know.

[deleafer2220]

Hydroton has a very bad habit of creeping pH back up if not washed properly..so my next question is did you pre wash ? I boil mine before using, then do a very detailed rinse to rid all ceramic dust away..Rinse water comes out clear by the time im done with it ...

[chefbeanstock]

Hydroton has a very bad habit of creeping pH back up if not washed properly..so my next question is did you pre wash ? I boil mine before using, then do a very detailed rinse to rid all ceramic dust away..Rinse water comes out clear by the time im done with it ...

I didn't go as far as boiling it, but I soaked it for a good 48 hours. Ph'd it often, changed the water 3 or 4 times. In the last few days it's been more stable. Went up from 5.3 to 5.8 in 10 hours today. My reservoir has been a little warm, up around 76f-77f.

[chefbeanstock]

I had to cull one seedling this afternoon. It was yellow and I had a feeling it hadn't rooted well. Sure enough, after taking it out of the hydroton, I pulled apart the RR plug an it was only a sickly looking, dried out taproot. No lateral rooting whatsoever. Sad to see one go, but it's all a learning experience right now. Lucky for me, it was one of the random bagseeds.

[chefbeanstock]

Can anyone tell me what the surface temperature of the leaves should be? Obviously they'd be a few degrees higher than the ambient temperature in the room, but it 81, 82 ok?

[mainegrown]

fine the leaves are a darker color than the air so 81 is ok... dont let it get too much higher.. that may not be good..
cant wait for the pics..

[frostedwonder]

Its grow logs like this that make me want to switch to the dark side...hydro (insert old tv sound affects) I am pulling up a spot and going to watch and learn a bit. I just really like the idea of running 32 plants Sog style. I wish I had that space.:jointsmile:

[deleafer2220]

So are you rinsing it at all or just soaking it and re soaking it with pHed water ??

Long as its stabling out

[Sensibowl]

Anyway, I've upgraded... My first grow was in a bathtub, a 400w HPS, and I had no idea what I was doing. I've since moved to a house with plenty of space. I have 2 1000w HPS lights now and a 7' x 5' pantry that was begging me to grow something in it.

So here's my new setup:

General Hydroponics 2x4 Flood n Drain Tray
40 Gallon Reservoir
Recirculating pump in Reservoir
Flexible Air Stone in Reservoir

2- 1000w HPS

Top Drip System
Rapid Rooters
Hydroton Rocks
5"x5" plastic pots

AN 3 Part Grow Micro Bloom 1:1:1
Currently running 1:1:1 (125 ppm)

Hygrozyme
Floralicious Plus
RO Water - Raw -PH 7.2 - 7.6
PPM 17
Ph Adjusted to 5.3


looking good....this is a great way to help the beginners out - and the rest of us just like to sit back and watch great grows...a thing of beauty.

that's awesome that you grew in a bathtub...that sounds pretty hard, actually - a rough way to begin.

the thing i love about growing is watching others get dialed into their systems...my advanced nutrients setup worked right from the start after a few missteps...oh, i wish i could share those photos with everyone - some of teh crappy grows I've had...too funny. stufff for record books.

if there was only a board for world's most horrible grows

good luck on this one tho it looks like you don't need any

:hippy:

[redtails]

Its grow logs like this that make me want to switch to the dark side...hydro (insert old tv sound affects) I am pulling up a spot and going to watch and learn a bit. I just really like the idea of running 32 plants Sog style. I wish I had that space.:jointsmile:

Check this out, 72 plant SOG in soil in a space that's 39 3/4" Wide x 25 1/2" Tall and 19 1/4" deep:

***DrBud Takes CFL SOG to the Next Level*** - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=88449)

[mainegrown]

very nice.. i am thinkin about the darkside too
-J

[chefbeanstock]

Check this out, 72 plant SOG in soil in a space that's 39 3/4" Wide x 25 1/2" Tall and 19 1/4" deep:

***DrBud Takes CFL SOG to the Next Level*** - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=88449)

This is interesting. Is 7 grams per plant a quality estimate in a SOG? 144 plants in RW cubes in a 4x4 flood and drain table?

[chefbeanstock]

looking good....this is a great way to help the beginners out - and the rest of us just like to sit back and watch great grows...a thing of beauty.

that's awesome that you grew in a bathtub...that sounds pretty hard, actually - a rough way to begin.

the thing i love about growing is watching others get dialed into their systems...my advanced nutrients setup worked right from the start after a few missteps...oh, i wish i could share those photos with everyone - some of teh crappy grows I've had...too funny. stufff for record books.

if there was only a board for world's most horrible grows

good luck on this one tho it looks like you don't need any

:hippy:


Thank you!

I've been taking pictures religiously. I hope to teach someone else how to do this someday, maybe write a book. It's just such a rewarding hobby, it'd be a shame not to pass it on. Good and bad, its knowledge that really counts.

[chefbeanstock]

So are you rinsing it at all or just soaking it and re soaking it with pHed water ??

Long as its stabling out

Yeah, I should have elaborated.

I rinse it with tap water until it runs clear, let it dry about half way, then rinse it again until it runs clear. Then I soaked it overnight in ph'd tap water. When I change it in the morning, I scoop the rocks out of the standing water, careful not to mix it up too much. This leaves a thick coating of silt on the bottom of the bucket. Then I rinse the bucket, soak it in ph'd RO water, changing every 12 hrs or so, removing the rocks the same way every time, until the ph stables out. Usually about 2 days later.

The ph still creeps up, it will always creep up, but its much slower after a week or so in the system.

[chefbeanstock]

fine the leaves are a darker color than the air so 81 is ok... dont let it get too much higher.. that may not be good..
cant wait for the pics..

Thanks, leaf temps are 78-80. I wonder how close I can get the light without burning them. Both my lights have glass so I should be able to get closer than 36"... But I'm definitely going to wait to find out, I think they're a little small to be experimenting with light.

[chefbeanstock]

Finally...

20 posts takes forever.

[ryanoleary18]

Hello to all the wonderfull people i need some help for a friend i no he has a strain called low ryder and he is having nothing but problems to get them to grow after day 2 you could see a very small root on one then a root about half a center meter long and they havent grown anymore in the last 3 to 4 days any help would be great for him thank you very much and happy times :)

[chefbeanstock]

Pics!!!

The first one is obviously the room.

The next two are AK-48.

The third plant is the Jack Herrer. Tri-foliar!!!

[chefbeanstock]

Hello to all the wonderfull people i need some help for a friend i no he has a strain called low ryder and he is having nothing but problems to get them to grow after day 2 you could see a very small root on one then a root about half a center meter long and they havent grown anymore in the last 3 to 4 days any help would be great for him thank you very much and happy times :)


Jackin' on the first post... must be real important.

[mainegrown]

it happens you justhave to learn to ignore itt bro

[chefbeanstock]

it happens you justhave to learn to ignore itt bro

I'm not worried at all...

[deleafer2220]

The set up is absolutely amazing ! Love the Tri. you got there and can't wait to see how this grow shapes out
Good Luck and Happy New Year :hippy: !

[ryanoleary18]

Hello to all the wonderfull people i need some help for a friend i no he has a strain called low ryder and he is having nothing but problems to get them to grow after day 2 you could see a very small root on one then a root about half a center meter long and they havent grown anymore in the last 3 to 4 days any help would be great for him thank you very much and happy times

[redtails]

Hello to all the wonderfull people i need some help for a friend i no he has a strain called low ryder and he is having nothing but problems to get them to grow after day 2 you could see a very small root on one then a root about half a center meter long and they havent grown anymore in the last 3 to 4 days any help would be great for him thank you very much and happy times

Best to make your own thread to ask this, it's like walking up to some strangers having a conversation and butting in...And how are you seeing these roots? They should be firmly planted at all times in the soil or whatever it's growing in, that's probably the main problem...

[chefbeanstock]

Best to make your own thread to ask this, it's like walking up to some strangers having a conversation and butting in...And how are you seeing these roots? They should be firmly planted at all times in the soil or whatever it's growing in, that's probably the main problem...

No, don't feed it!!!

[redtails]

Sorry man, great looking plants!

[mainegrown]

they are looking good man.. more pics would be nice
-J

[chefbeanstock]

Day 19 from seed.

PH 5.3-5.8
I adjust to 5.6 if I'm home for the day, but if I have to go to work I'll drop it to 5.3, in 12 hours it usually rises up to 5.8 or 5.9

PPM 400
Just raised it from 250 on day 15.
AN Grow-Micro-Bloom
GH Floralicious plus
GH FloraBlend
Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus
Hygrozyme
I was getting some drooping that looked like overwatering, cut back to 4x15min per day. That didn't fix the problem so I added the Cal-Mag Plus yesterday afternoon. The droopy plants look better already.

Lights 22" from top of tallest plant. The distance from the light started at 4ft+ and I've lowered it gradually. I installed the other 1000w inline in the system and fired it up to see what it would do to the temperature. Once it reached 82 I turned it off and just accepted the fact that I'll have to spend $500 on an air conditioner sometime soon.

Even at 22" the surface temp of the leaves are staying at about 78-79 degrees. This makes me happy, finally using the PAR watts that I'm paying for.

[chefbeanstock]

Aside from drooping, does anyone know of any indications of under or over watering?

Every morning they look great, in the afternoon they look great also. I'm usually at work when it happens, so I'm guessing that around 10 or 11pm, they droop. Then they look good again in the morning, after six hours of dark. Some more than others. The 2 AK-48 plants look mostly unaffected. The others look like hell. I started at 4x 15min per day; at lights on, every six hours. Tried every four hours. Should I go with more, or less? Should I increase or decrease the interval, or the duration...both I'm sure.

This definitely happens during the warmest 8 hours of the day. Since I've messed with the intake and exhaust a little bit, the temp stays between 73 and 78.8 with the lights on, gets down to 63 with the lights off.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[chefbeanstock]

Weird stuff going on...

I've never known plants to show sex after a month from seed. Last night I got home from work and was giving them a quick once over when I spotted this male preflower.

[chefbeanstock]

This morning I woke up to a few pistils on one of the feminized AK48 plants. (I'll get some pics of that later)

Here are a few pics of the others.

The last picture is one that I tried the FIM technique on. As you can see, it now has 4 growth shoots on the top of the main stem.

[mainegrown]

looking good chief..
i tried the FIM too.. and only got two shoots :(
but that is double what i had b4 :)

~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

[chefbeanstock]

looking good chief..
i tried the FIM too.. and only got two shoots :(
but that is double what i had b4 :)

~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé


Thanks for checking in, they're doing great. I think I'll end up with at least three males. Should leave me with plenty of female parts to take cuttings from.

[mainegrown]

not enough posts man.. 50+ to give rep..

nice try though.. hit me back later man


~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

[chefbeanstock]

Sorry for the lag, here's an update.

I've emptied out the hydro system of all but the two AK48 plants. I took 30 cuttings off of the other 2 females of unknown genetics.

I also fimmed both of the AK's. The smaller of the two is spawning 9 tops. Yeah, that's right, 9. Its been about 5 days, so I'll get a good pic in a week or so. I have had a serious growth spurt in the last 3 weeks. They're about 20 inches tall and 26" wide.

I ripped out the remaining shelves in my pantry, giving me an additional 10 square feet to work with .

As soon as the clones that are in the dome are rooted, they're going into soil and under one of the 1000w HPS for a couple weeks of veg. Then I'll take at least 75 cuttings from the 2 AK48 females, those will go into the aero-cloner that I built this weekend. Once the AK48 clones are rooted, they're going into the hydro system, probably changing to E&F, for a few days of veg. Then I'll flower the whole room.

Since I picked up the 12,000btu A/C, I've eliminated the fans, glass, and ducting for the ventilation through the lights. This will allow me to move them completely independently, so I can grow some 3 or 4 footers in the soil, and still manage a true Sea of Green in the hydro system.

Here are some pics.

The last is a pic of the root mass from the female donor that was in a 5.5" square pot.

COMING SOON:

CO2 system
Hortilux Super Blue 1000w HPS Lamps
Light movers
4x4 tray

[chefbeanstock]

Can I take the tips of each branch as clones... as opposed to taking the newer side growths of each branch that haven't hardened off yet?

[superskunk1]

Nice setup i would like to explore the hydro world but i havent been convinced yet will keep up with this thread never know...

:jointsmile:

[chefbeanstock]

Nice setup i would like to explore the hydro world but i havent been convinced yet will keep up with this thread never know...

:jointsmile:

I'm a little more science minded so hydro is a pretty easy concept for me. Honestly, I can imagine more problems with soil.

[caregiver420]

Looks great from here, chefbeanstock! I can't wait to see it through. Keep up the great work!

[chefbeanstock]

Sooooooo...

The clones are rooted!!!!! Well, about half of them. It took about a week. 200 ppm Veg nutrients, 5.5(ish)ph, roottech gel, humidity dome, 75-85 degree root zone temp (30min on 30min off with a heating mat) kept the plugs moist, sprayed 3x daily for 5 days, watered the RR plugs twice a day afterward. I ended up setting them on the floor of the room, about 6 feet from the 1000w HPS.

The AK48's are ready to do some work. I'm going to take as many clones as I possibly can without killing the mothers. I'm aiming for 120.

Adding a 4x4 tray to the system will give me enough space for 96 clones in 5.5" square pots. Perfect for the sog. I'll also have the 20+ that are rooting right now, those are going in 2 gal grow bags. They'll get flowered when the AK48's sea of green is ready. So we're looking at about a 5-7 day veg for the AK48 SOG, plus the 7-10 days to get them rooted. The plants in soil will have a solid 2 weeks to put on wood.

I hope everyone has as good an experience with their plants as I do with mine. And, if I can share one piece of advice with ANYONE who is willing to take it... They grow a lot faster when you're not in there.

[chefbeanstock]

Rockwool sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I took 130 clones from the 2 AK48 mothers. I estimate that I'll lose at least 30, maybe more.